Brief Summary:
- Samples of water were collected in August 2007, in Stamps Arkansas, by leaving some bowls outside for a month
- The resultant dirty water was tested by KSLA and was found to have the same amount of barium in it as most municipal tap water.
- The reporter misunderstood the results, and said there was a lot of Barium
- The reporter now admits he was mistaken, and that he found no evidence for chemtrails
Some conspiracy theorists think that persistent spreading contrails indicate some kind of deliberate aerial spraying, probably by the government. They speculate as to what could be in these trails, and one of the most common things they claim is barium.
Some people are so obsessed by this idea that they have rainwater tested to see if it has barium in it. They usually find some, and then trumpet this as evidence that their theory is correct.
Unfortunately they are wrong. I’ll explain why, but first, some basic science.
What is Barium?
Barium is a metal, like calcium. You never find it in its metal form (outside of a lab), as it oxidizes rapidly in the air. Instead you’ll find compounds, usually barium sulfate or barium carbonate. Barium compounds are used in the plastics, rubber, electronics and textile industries, in ceramic glazes and enamels, in glass-making, brick-making and paper-making, as a lubricant additive, in pharmaceuticals and cosmetics, in case-hardening of steel and in the oil and gas industry as a wetting agent for drilling mud. Barium in water comes primarily from natural sources as it is present as a trace element in both igneous and sedimentary rocks. Barium is generally present in air in particulate form as a result of industrial emissions, particularly from combustion of coal and diesel oil and waste incineration.
µ and Parts Per …
When you measure the concentration of a substance in water, you can express it in various ways. You have to pay attention to units when converting from one way to another.
A liter of water weighs 1 kilogram, which is 1000 grams.
A milligram is 1/1000th (a thousandth) of a gram. 1mg = 1 milligram = 0.001g
A microgram is 1/1000000 (a millionth) of a gram. 1ug = 1µg = 1 microgram
Note that last line, because it’s important. The symbol µ is the greek letter “mu”. In measuring, it’s used to mean “micro”, or “millionth”. (To type µ, hold down the Alt key, type 230 on the numeric keypad, and then release the Alt key). Since it’s difficult to type, it’s often written using the letter “u”. Make sure you understand the difference between a milligram (mg, 1/1000th or a gram) and a microgram (µg, ug, 1/1000000th of a gram). A milligram is thousandth, not a millionth. It’s a little confusing sometimes.
A microgram is a millionth of a gram, so it’s a billionth of a kilogram. Since there are 1000 grams in a kilogram, and 1,000,000 micrograms in a gram, there are 1,000,000,000 µg in a kilogram. All this is basic high school science.
Concentration in water is measured as ppm, ppb, g/L, mg/L, µg/L. These are parts per million, parts per billion, grams per liter, milligrams per liter and micrograms per liter. We can convert between these easily:
1 ppm = 1 mg/L = 1000 ppb = 1000 µg/L
1 ppb = 1 µg/L = 0.001 ppm = 0.001 mg/L
(remember that 1 Liter is 1000 grams, so 1 mg in one liter is a thousandth of a gram in one thousand grams, or 1 part in a million).
Chemtrail claims
This video is very popular right now. Claiming that water was analyzed and found to have barium in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okB-489l6MI
The video was taken in Stamps, Arkansas, which is not entirely surprising as that’s in a region of the US the might be renamed “Contrail Alley”. It’s at the intersection of the cross country routes between the West Coast, and the major airport in Atlanta, Orlando and Jacksonville. Stamps is midway between the two major regional VORs (Texarkana and El Dorado), right next to the major East-West airway Victor V278, and on the edge of a MOA that traffic has to skirt occasionally. It’s also directly below the Atlanta to Dallas, San Antonio to New York and Houston to Chicago flight routes. On just ONE of these routes (Atlanta to Dallas) there is a scheduled commuter flight, directly overhead, at contrail altitude every 15 minutes! The same frequency of flights is found on the Houston-Chicago route, which crosses at right angles almost exactly overhead. Hence, when the weather is right, it is inevitable that you will see contrails in a grid pattern, “a giant checkerboard”. See this Google Earth file: airlines-over-stamps.kmz
But back to the video. It shows a jar of dirty water (collected 9/1/2007), which was collected by Bill Nichols. He’s posted some comments on the YouTube video describing how he collected the water:
it was rainwater. i collected it in two separate bowls on the hood of a pickup truck in my backyard. we are 25 miles from the nearest interstate. this is a very poor county, the only industry is chickens, logging , farming, a little oil—no coal burners or anything like that. i wasn’t looking for attention. i was looking for answers, ksla said they would pay to get it tested. i dropped it off, and they asked my opinion
i put 2 clean bowls there specifically because i wanted to catch what was falling. i don’t recall exactly when i put the bowls there, but they were there for about a month before i contacted ksla. the goo that i caught was full of barium. have a cool day!
Pause for a second, and consider if you left a bowl out for the month of August in rural Arkansas, what would you expect to find in it after a month? Some dirty water? Perhaps a little dust? What’s dust made of outdoor? Dirt, dried topsoil. What would you expect to find in the dirt in Arkansas – one of the richest sources of barium in the US? You’d expect a bit of Barium – but did they actually find any more than you’d get in tap water?
This dirty water was tested, the test results are available in full here. You can also see the results in the video, at around 00:55 to 00:59. Here they are pieced together.
And just to be clear, here’s a closeup of the results, and the units:
That’s quite straightforward right? Barium found at 68.8 µg/L. That’s 68.8 parts per billion. Now listen to the audio at that precise point (also transcribed on the KSLA web site):
“The results: a high level of barium, 6.8 parts per million (ppm), more than three times the toxic level set by the EPA”.
Immediately you can see something is wrong here. it’s 68.8, not 6.8, and it’s not parts per million, it’s parts per billion. So it’s actually 0.0688 parts per million.
And what of “three times the toxic level set by the EPA”? They are referring to the EPA Limits, as quoted by the CDC:
“The EPA has set a limit of 2.0 milligrams of barium per liter of drinking water (2.0 mg/L), which is the same as 2 ppm [parts per million].”
So the EPA limit is 2 ppm (2000 µg/L), and the tests actually found 0.0688 ppm (68.8 µg/L), just 3.4% of the allowable limit.
That limit’s not really a “toxic level” either. There’s no evidence that it would be toxic even at that level (which, remember, is 29 times higher than what was actually found). The world health organization has set a drinking water level of 7 ppm after doing studies into the health effects of barium.
Barium has always been in water
The WHO also reported on the barium levels in drinking water (meaning, from a tap, not some dirty puddle) and they found:
“In a study of water supplies of cities in the USA, a median value of 43 μg/litre was reported; in 94% of all determinations, the concentrations found were below 100µg/litre (IPCS, 1990)“
So the average was 43 µg/L, but most were below 100µg/L. This means the amount of Barium found in this supposed chemtrail residue was about the same as was found in the municipal water supplies in the US, back in 1990. This is pretty low, it varies with geography based on the type of rocks in the aquifer. In Tuscany, Italy, the Barium in drinking water was around 1000µg/L (1ppm), high, but still within safe limits.
The amount of barium will also vary based on the weather. Very heavy rains will leach more barium out into the groundwater. So you’d expect more barium after very rainy seasons. This is actually what you find if you look at the historical records in California (which has very uneven annual rainfall). You see spikes in barium whenever there is a wet year after a dry year. Recent years like these are 1991, 1995, 1998 and 2004 (2001 and 2003 also spiked to a lesser extent). The expected peaks were confirmed by the results of Rosalind Peterson at California Skywatch.
So what’s going on here? Chemtrail theorists are constantly claiming that “chemtrails” are made of barium, and that it’s affecting our health. But whenever water is tested, it is found to have perfectly normal levels of barium, which vary as expected based on the rainfall. In the cases where they claim it’s got an unusual amount, this is just a misunderstanding of the units and limits involved.
Yes, there is barium in the drinking water, there always has been, and always will be. Trace amounts, mostly from the environment and some industrial pollution. It’s a very small amount, and not dangerous. There is no evidence to suggest it has anything to do with “chemtrails.”
Update #1: 5/2/2009
Jeff Ferrall, the reporter in the story now says:
https://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/comment-page-8/#comment-23164
Yes, I did make corrections to my first report, which originally aired almost 2-years ago now… after quickly realizing my very embarrassing mistake. I was not happy with myself. Unfortunately, the first version of my report got out to the internet before I could make the correction(s), and the wrong version is shown repeatedly.
…
My feeling is, and maybe you’d agree, that if such aerosol mixes were created and loaded into jets with either a separate/independent dispersal method other than the exhaust, or actually in the fuel itself… somewhere, somehow, you’d expect someone to talk. I have not heard that yet.
…
I also interviewed the scientist who originally patented what some believe was a precursor to so-called chemtrail technology. He’s a very kind, helpful man who could not have been more helpful. He says he knows nothing about any such conspiracy.
There’s also a mention of this story In Skeptical Enquirer magazine:
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/curious_contrails_death_from_the_sky/
Update#2: 3/14/2010
More people make the same mistake. This time someone in Austrailia, and the story was picked up by a Los Angeles environmentalist. Again mg is confused with µg, making the results 1000 times as high:
Okay, I finally decided how to really find out about this particular news report. It has been reposted ad nauseum on YouTube, many times in any single week, even attributed to be a “national” news report. And it’s held in almost holy regard by ChemBelievers, as the holy grail of truth about our poisoned sky.
I have always believed that the best source of news and information should be the actual source, so I emailed KSLA News12’s own reporter, Jeff Ferrell. Here is my original letter (I’ve substituted my real name with my online one and removed my exact location for privacy):
Hello!
My name is Stars15k, from IN. I have an interest in all things science, particularly weather and clouds. While I was casually clicking around on YouTube, I found your piece on Chemtrails. It is reposted often, as much as 3 times this past 7 days. I immediately noticed you had misstated the number on the results as 6.8 instead of the printed 68.8, then recognized that the unit wasn’t the same as stated in printing either. I was already on red alert considering the sampling process was a great deal less then optimum; no mention was made how any ground level pollutants would be accounted for at the very least. As I have researched all over the web further, I have found that the mistakes made were numerous. Here’s a link to a complete “debunk”:
https://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/
So, I was wondering what you as the original reporter thought of all of it. Was a retraction ever made, or a correction? Why or why not? As a science minded person, I am known on YouTube as a “disinformationalist” (yep, this word isn’t in Webster’s), disinfo agent, paid shill, and lots of other names and insults for completely speaking out against the report for the reasons I’ve stated above. It’s become something of a hobby for me to try and get people to look at clouds and the atmosphere and how it works, not look to conspiracy theorists for their “science” and news. The debate continues on YouTube with new impetus with the flu outbreak, which is currently suggested as being spread by “chemtrails”.
So, as the current leading authority on the reality of chemtrails poisoning our skies everyday, what do you think NOW? And if you do answer back, may I quote you?
Several days later, I got this back:
Thank you for the email. Yes, I did make corrections to my first report, which originally aired almost 2-years ago now… after quickly realizing my very embarrassing mistake. I was not happy with myself. Unfortunately, the first version of my report got out to the internet before I could make the correction(s), and the wrong version is shown repeatedly. There ‘are’ some salient points in the piece, but your issue about ground level pollutants is a great one, as well.
Stars15k, unlike some who may stubbornly stick to a report even when portions of it turn out to be wrong, I am only interested in the truth. My feeling is, and maybe you’d agree, that if such aerosol mixes were created and loaded into jets with either a separate/independent dispersal method other than the exhaust, or actually in the fuel itself… somewhere, somehow, you’d expect someone to talk. I have not heard that yet.
I also interviewed the scientist who originally patented what some believe was a precursor to so-called chemtrail technology. He’s a very kind, helpful man who could not have been more helpful. He says he knows nothing about any such conspiracy. Again, as with the previous graph, that neither proves nor dispels such a conspiracy… I am awaiting more facts.
And ironically, this is not the only investigation that’s shed light on everything from Bin Laden’s FBI poster to martial law and the role of the clergy in such a scenario. But, for whatever reason, chemtrails has become the most popular. Below is a sample of some of that work. (He included some links, but they are off CT topic, so I have not shown them)
Thanks again for taking the time to contact me and feel free to pass along any information, if you’d like.
Sincerely,
Jeff Ferrell
[email protected]
So, this report is officially wrong, the reporter knows it, admits it and told about it.
I know some won’t believe it, but come on–If the reporter says it’s wrong, how can anyone else say it’s right?
Thanks Stars15K, that’s very useful. Of course, it’s unlikely to sway the hardcore, and unfortunately the video is going to continue to be posted regardless. I’m going to update the post with a link to this.
I find it quite interesting that the EPA doesn’t want to touch the matter (that’s odd) and they defer to the FAA. But all is well, so we can sleep tonight knowing that Vitamin C was actually sprayed in the air so we could become healthier. It is well known that barium salts are used in weather modification. The chemtrails that I showed were initially noticed 4/23/09 and continued to 4/26/09. They were in Atlanta. Look up the historical weather if you like and you’ll see a big jump in the temperature. I believe we even had record temperatures that weekend. Imagine that.
US PATENT NUMBER 6315213, filed on November 13, is described as a method of modifying weather and should concern the public. A scientist from Wright Patterson Air Force Base acknowledges that planes are spraying barium salt, polymer fibers, aluminum oxide and other chemicals in the atmosphere to both modify the weather and for military communications purposes. AND OTHER PURPOSES AS WELL THAT ARE MUCH MORE COVERT AND WILL NOT BE MENTIONED HERE.
But what does that have to do with the trails that people call “chemtrails”? Is there any connection? When you spray polymer fibers, what does it look like?
And why don’t you mention these “more covert” purposes?
Like I said, I really don’t believe you’re searching for answers here. You seem much more interested in asking ridiculous questions that mean nothing and confusing the general public. I don’t take this page very seriously as an information source because of your “research” and questioning. I stated some very solid facts and documented the visual and saw no confirmation of those facts in your comments. That tells me that you’re full of SHIT to be quite direct.
If you are as bright as you claim to be, I am sure you can follow the rabbit trail yourself and figure this one out. Sorry, I am not going there chief. I don’t need people crawling my a** for two seconds of glory on this page that means NOTHING. Like I said, if you are such a wonderful researcher that can dig deep into the details, maybe you’ll figure it out. I am quite sure that we won’t see that.
You showed some videos that show some forms of barium salts are toxic, which nobody has ever denied. You offer no evidence that these salts are found in visible aircraft trails – nor are there any pages that I’ve found that show any evidence of this. So what is your question?
Feel free to throw my video up of tic tac toe sky directly above our heads and try to explain that. In fact put it on your website and tell people what you believe them to be. I really don’t think you will but I bluffed anyway
MY SKIES APRIL 25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDggY3virFc
The onous is on you to say that this a) a standard cloud structure or b) a chemtrail
CONTENTS:
I have no idea what was in it. I would speculate either barium salt (common in weather modification) OR something else that is not barium and I won’t mention here. The fact that we had record or higher than normal temperatures thurs – sunday this weekend would make me speculate barium salt and weather modification. I saw this stuff Thursday, Friday and Saturday but was away on Sunday so I didn’t witness them on that day.
TESTING:
I do intend to test my child and myself for barium exposure. Obviously, I would hope to disprove myself on my little theory.
CHEMTRAILS?:
One thing for sure is that those were chemtrails OR intentionally disbursed substances (not just natural plane emissions). These were literal grids flown over our area. Let the reader do their own research on chemtrails and don’t assume that all sites are unbiased. Don’t listen to me either. Do keyword searches on chemtrails, chemtrail military strategic, barium chemtrail and do others as you begin researching. I encourage everyone to do their own research from as many sources as possible for the truth.
Your video shows about four persistent spreading contrails.
Now, given the amount of air traffic, can you explain why you would NOT expect to see something like that?
Duh-
I watched your video…you are right- it WAS ridiculous !
You clearly haven’t done any research on what IS normal behavior of a contrail…You need to do your OWN research on contrails before you can claim you know what you see in the sky.
The whole “contrails dissipate- chemtrails don’t” theme is a sign of ignorance…
The body of data collected over the last 40 years by atmospheric scientists documenting, sampling, modeling persistent contrails that spread and cover the sky in a haze of cirrus clouds is simply undeniable…too overwhelming in its breadth and depth to actually attempt to suggest that “normal” contrails cannot persist….
Which you seem to believe…
You clearly have no idea that 2 different planes in the same sky can have 2 different exhaust signatures resulting in 2 different trails…
…or that even 500 feet in altitude difference can change the ambient atmosphere enough to cause 2 different trail signatures…
…or that normal flight paths cross ALL THE TIME and if they happen to leave persistent trails- it will look like an “X” …or multiple trails will look like a grid…
…too then point the camera at the sky and cry in shrill fear that you are seeing “chemtrails” is nothing but blatant fear mongering….
Classic.
So, DUh…what exactly IS your knowledge of contrail behavior? Can they persist and spread cover the sky in a haze?
If not- how do you explain all the evidence to the contrary? Plenty on this site alone but that is just the start…
Duh, how fitting. Duh ended up leaving my video on YouTube and deleting most of his messages, after a bit of insults and talk of proof that he had but couldn’t produce. I’ll admit, the insults ended up being two way, but there is just so many times you can answer the same question over and over again without getting a bit annoyed. Answers will be the same here, Duh. That’s something I was trying to get through to you about: Real Science, has facts and is the same everywhere. CT theory doesn’t fit these criteria. Laws of gravity, thermodynamics, aerodynamics, fluid dynamics, physics, chemistry, meteorology can’t be repealed by any government or entity. They have to remain the same. When science shows the same results over and over again, it means that is a fact. When you have just facts, you know the truth. When you understand the truth, the sky is the sky again, clouds look like bunnies or Homer Simpson, colored sunsets are beautiful, and planes can leave signs of their passing overhead without fear and worry.
What air traffic would that be. we are in suburb well outside of atlanta with no airtraffic. do you actually think this suburb has regular air traffic, much less gridding the skies. sorry for the confusion but that’s not the case.
further elaboration
I am not sure what the objective of your collective mission might be but people just aren’t that stupid, so keep on keeping on. as for this site, caveat emptor. aint that the fancy stuff you eat on them there crackers.
general comments
oh yeah, about duhbaa…i wasn’t going to tell you about that one but you brought it up. it is intended to imply…well better not say. kind of cryptic and no more name calling for me. duh deleted his messages because he felt bad about being so cruel and for being kind of an a**hole (i’ll admit it, star). i was having a moment. anyway, i like you star but you have a mean streak. scarey :<0
further studies
remember what i said before and do your research on that key term. it’s a puzzle worth solving. i heard you guys were incredible researchers with a vast expanse of knowledge. should be easy then because little old me done got left behind in physics class. i did enjoy playing with them there magnets. pop quiz next week and it counts for 85% of your grade … there i go being cryptic again. the best thing is that you can’t hide behind all your bogus bs contrail science when you find it….ha ha ha good studies!
to contrail science web master and others:
no hard feelings. you guys believe one thing and we agree to disagree. all good. funny thing is that we’re all on the same side (so to speak) and fighting, yet we’re all being screwed by another party that’s laughing, while we fight and they hurt our children and us for that matter. but you guys will never believe that. “ye looks for a sign and sign shall not ye be given.” well maybe just a distinct line of barium above your head or something else.
to those brave souls with keyboards calling me out
do those studies because your “_ _ _ _ ed”
eyes wide shut guys keep searching for the untruth
man i got owned on here didn’t i u2…kind of immature isn’t it?
duh-baaaaaaaaa signing off
Actually that IS the case. Of course nobody is flying TO your location, they are flying OVER it. Have you ever looked at how much air traffic is in the air over where you are? I’m guessing near Cumming, GA, so there’s Mathis nearby, which is private so gets no traffic. BUt look at the map:
http://flightaware.com/live/airport/GA27
Click on the small map in the top right. You’ll see contrails of any plane within 50 miles of you – so it’s hardly surprising you get grids occasionally.
Uncinus, no it is not…Like I said if what you said was true, we’d see those every day and we do not and have not since. Those were low altitude flights. An no it’s not Cumming. Why would you guess that one? Talk about speculation. Answer me this, why would these be the only days we’ve seen these much less a grid (criss cross) with intermittent spraying (not jet fuel) over the entire area. Oh yes I watched and you guys believe what you want. Please don’t try to speculate when the obvious is obvious. I won’t beat this dead dog anymore.
All I have is that video and I can tell you that is not common SPRAYING that happens every day here. Keep sucking up the air and feel good about it. Now One of your guys asked an EXCELLENT question that begs to be answered. Why aren’t people getting sick…that’s a good question. And I will respond eventually and I do appreciate well thought out questions instead of telling me that those weren’t intentionally laid substances.
I honestly don’t think you guys want the true answers to THE PURPOSES. I think you’d rather play with the surface and that’s what I’ll address the best I can when at all possible. Oh yes, let’s just say that those boys in the government are multi-tasking with those sprays. I won’t get to the meaty stuff because it’s not worth wasting. You had better do the research because you guys are looking at the obvious when it’s the right punch that matters…not the jab.
Duh-baaaa signing off and enjoyed the discourse Uncinus. cya
btw, ip’s don’t always tell the whole story…
no I am not as stupid as one might believe
duh-baaaaa
Here’s an animation of flights around Atlanta I found at YT. You really get lots of air traffic.
Atlanta must be a busy place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFl_u9kIk6c
It depends on the weather. The weather is not the same every day. Some days the weather is quite unusual, and you don’t see weather like that again for a long time.
How do you know they were low altitude? How did you measure it?
And that’s just the traffic too and from Atlanta. There is a lot more flying over Atlanta, like say from Florida to Chicago (probably at least 100 flights a day). Then say New York to Louisiana. That will give you lots of potential for grids if the weather happens to support persistent contrails at that altitude.
I am not in Atlanta but that’s all you have to try to latch onto.. Jets flying at that altitude? Ha ha. Already told you. Keep reaching for straws. Why don’t you take my video and do some extrapolative analysis (that there is big word for a chemtard aint it) to determine the altitude if you care to…you guys have a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips.
We measured those chemtrails that day here in the hills as REAL LOW!. Our WTF Meter was at a Level 6, which is shotgun and wrist-rocket sling-shot stages. Have to remember, we’re just ignorant folk down here.
I am going back to looking for bigfoot. If I can’t find that feller in any googled forest pics, I am going to deem him a dern myth. He’s gotta be poppin’ his head out somewhere. But I seen monsterquest and those people think he’s for real. I had me a beer last night and pulled it of the cooler, could have sworn I seen the furry feller. Musta been lit.
Anyway, Uncinus and all, always enjoy the banter. Do what I said and look for the un-obvious if you really want to know the truth. Not sure if you’re really searching or snowing…and it’s dern Springtime…thought we had global warming.
BTW, I’d rather ya’ll get to disproving them dern Mayans ’cause that one’s got me really worried. I mean crap, how’s my GPS on my dern bass boat gonna find my fishin’ hole if the dern North Pole has shifted. That’s just all screwed up.
Duh- baaaaa signing off
Well, you said “we are in suburb well outside of atlanta”, so Atlanta traffic seemed like a very reasonable thing to discuss.
Duh, you seem to have trouble understanding the facts as all people who understand aviation understand them. The supposed “acting” like a dumb hick WHILE you misunderstand the importance of the facts as they are explained to you only serves to help us understand how you felt for this myth in the first place. Everything Uncinus has written should be VERY helpful for you, yet you dismiss him and mock him for attempting to help you. You aren’t even TRYING to understand what he is saying because the way he has written the posts to you, explains everything so clearly. Yet, you just dismiss it without even TRYING to understand the importance.
You aren’t even TRYING to understand the significance of the number of flights over ANY area, not just yours! yet, you focus on some irrelevant BS about ip addresses and paranoid “purposes” for the government to spray us. Why bother coming here if you are uninterested in learning anything? There isn’t a snowballs chance in HELL that you would be able to convince anyone here, that doesn’t already believe in that hoax, to switch their position. You have no evidence to back up your claims.
To anyone who reads this and CARES to help the chemtrail believers. PLEASE join youtube and help us, help them. They so DESPERATELY need assistance with their misunderstanding of aviation and meteorology.
Thank You.
Unc, if I wanted to I could put a 24 hour cam over the house for you guys to view and disprove your theory. Unfortunately, I have to make a living and get tired of the futile discussions. Anyway, one of your guys asked a good question that I’ve been wanting to research anyway. This stuff does worry me, especially for the kids sake. I can give a crap about myself. I’ll do that research and respond. I said I’d have it tonight but I am tired as heck. When I have it, I’ll send you what I find and feel free to punch holes in it if you like…on one condition. Don’t let Star kick my butt because I am scared of her. She’s a tough cookie and I think she might even take you U2.
Anyway, back to the air traffic, it’s not there. Them dern crop dusters have left us for now. That doesn’t mean that dern barium is gone because if it was barium, it doesn’t leave for a long time. SOFT SOFT SOFT Do you know the term.
I am sure you do. Drink that diet coke, eat those twinkies, use that cell phone (we use cup and string up here), go to your asbestos offices, suck up that good air after that pretty chemtrail/contrail plane does a fly-by over your house and just know that they all is well. If you are not dead, you is _ _ _ _ ed. And I don’t mean that nasty 4 letter word that U2 likes to use. BTW, U2 can kick my butt, cause he’s a dern hause. U2, you and me need to go cow-tippin’ .
Anyway guys, have a good one, cheers and I’ll be talkin’ barium soon enuff. One of these days, I am going to have to get my prop plane out and a jar and catch me one of them chemtrails so you guys can test that stuff.
Dub-baaaaa with not more to say for today. take care
duhbaa, I’m not sure I follow everything your were trying to say there. But I look forward to hearing your evidence.
This made coffee come out my nose. I’m just a middle-aged, middle-income, middle-American, dog-loving, wool spinning, fly-tying, sock knitting, married to the only man i ever dated, Grandma of two, cloud-freak. I’m so proud.
oh, and no need to worry, U2 or anyone else.
Don’t worry Stars. I don’t fear you in the least! I respect and admire you and anyone else who has taken the time to learn how science proves us right about “chemtrails” .
I do fear the militant and politically motivated chemtrail believers on youtube and other sites. THEY certainly scare me with their conclusion jumping and assumptions. I’m so appreciative to Uncinus and others who dedicate their lives to trying to help these poor unfortunate people. Let’s hope we can help these people BEFORE they take matters into their own hands and hurt a pilot or meteorologist. I have seen an increasing number of threats on youtube and I hope that no one follows through.
Uh, yeah! Pleaaaaaasssssee! Yeah our dern wrist-rocket sling shots were a-firing upon our enemy because we’re a dern threat. Get a life dude. Your speculation about our crop dusters are one thing but speculating that people will ACTUALLY harm pilots is assenine to say the least. People like myself are professionals that may get angry at the occurences above their head but channel that anger into legal mediums that accomplish something. The only way the pilots will be hurt, is if their evil feelings are hurt when local legal intervention is taken to ground them from their crop dusting flights over our neighborhoods. Why hold it against them, we’ll just do things the right way in a legal fashion. 🙂 ha ha ha
Just remember U2 that you are _ _ _ _ ed. But the haze of those chemtrails have made your senses DENSE. BTW, don’t ever under-estimate this hillbilly because checkmating people legally is what I do for a living. Do me a favor and don’t elude to my actions or thoughts as being militant because you are in error and it be considered libel or slander. My family and myself are loyal to this country and that we always have always. Being upset about crop dusters spraying your neighborhood is not militant but a logical response to something that is not natural. You can feel free to allow them to crop dust you but as for me, I will address the matter here locally with the appropriate government officials. Like I said, I know what you are.
Duh-baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Duh, thank you for the kind words. I will not be debating you here in such a childish manner because of my respect for those who run this site. But, I would like to point out one little fact. You keep saying things about how you “know what I am” as if you have some knowledge about me at all. Don’t you see how paranoid that is? You know nothing about me other than the fact that I have an alternate view than the one you have. Yet you make wild speculation as if it’s fact. That is just a bit strange! That is what got you into this situation in the first place, speculation and assumption.
Also, I have seen, with my own eyes, direct threats against pilots and meteorologists for pointing out mistakes made by “chemtrail” believers. You can say for certain that you aren’t capable of any such thing, but don’t speak for others who might not be as “sane” as you think you are. Again, I have seen the comments MANY times.
So, if you don’t have any questions or evidence for Uncinus, or any other person here, why come here? You are only proving your ignorance with each post and giving us more reason to believe the hick “act” is no act at all. You are obviously uninterested in learning anything from anyone here and you have absolutely NO CHANCE of changing the minds of those who are actually educated in the truth about “chemtrails”.
One final note…
I would like to ask you why those who are in the meteorology/aviation field need to go through years of schooling when all one has to do is “look up” in order to understand what is happening as an airplane flies through varying weather conditions. If one can just simply rely on their eyes to explain complex weather movements and air masses, why go to school at all? Can’t you just imagine for a moment that these are complex concepts that require actual training to understand? Both meteorology and aviation are rare subjects to study and there are not many people in a given area who have learned about such subjects. Isn’t it possible that those you have learned from are uneducated in these subjects also?
Can I understand the complicated jet engine just by looking at it or do I need to study a bit to understand that it COMPRESSES the air it takes in and then mixes that high pressure air with fuel and ignites it to create thrust? To believe you understand the atmosphere and how all the elements work together, without studying from a source other than youtube (and other “websites”), is absurd. I hope you learn the truth someday, for your sake and the sake of your children. No one should live in fear of the lines in the sky when here there are billions of sources of pollution right down here on the ground to worry about. The funny, and ironic, FACT is that the trails hold LESS danger to you and your family than some of the water down here that is labeled fit for human consumption. You focus on the absurd while ignoring true dangers. If you fertilize your lawn, you are exposing your children to MUCH higher concentrations of dangerous substances than you can find in MILES on persistent contrails.
Please stop telling lies about people you know nothing about here, or on youtube. It makes you look foolish and paranoid. I really do hope you find the truth. I would hate to live in fear as you people obviously do.
Bravo, Un. You took the words out of my mouth. No, better… 🙂
what does barium do to our health anyway?’m taking it orally for my x-raysn
People are really talking about Barium salts. The kind they use for X-Rays (Barium sulfate) does not dissolve in water, so is not poisonous. Water soluble forms of barium salts are more toxic.
Still, none have been found in contrails, so it’s a bit of a moot point.
I remember as a kid in Minnesota in the 1950’s, laying on the lawn and watching the clouds for hours. I thought it was cool to see the jets and contrails. There weren’t nearly as many then as now, but flying was a luxury then, and there are many more thousands of flights per day now as then. The contrails varied quite a bit then too. Sometimes they were very high up and thin, other times fatter. Sometimes you could watch them disappear just a few seconds after the jet. Other times they would linger for a long time and slowly spread out. The only difference between then and now is the number of contrails because of the number of increased flights. They look the same now as back in the 50’s.
I’ve also learned from pilots that if you’re just looking up in the sky, it’s almost impossible to judge the jets altitude because you have no reference point. An experienced pilot can make a good estimate if he can tell what kind of jet it is, the flight pattern it might be on, and what airport it came from or may be going to, but it’s still going to be an estimate. So for a layman to say the jet was way below the clouds is pure conjecture. And if the govt is poisoning everyone, why would they poison themselves? And if they are depopulating us, why would they get rid of their tax base? Spraying chemicals this way is one of the most inefficient methods of dispersal. You have no way of controlling where it will go.
I’ve read some posts where people claim that after the “chemtrails” were spewed overhead they felt sick. Most likely, if anything from that altitude was dropped, it would land maybe hundreds of miles away because of wind conditions. Not to mention that whatever was in it would be so diluted by the time it hit earth as to be useless. To be effective you would need a crop duster. There is much more pollution and poisons around you on this earth that you should really be concerned about. Real pollution that can be measured and proved. You conspirators should work on improving all our lives by fighting toxic waste, and pollution by fertilizers into our water supply.
Amen, Shakeboy.
To tell you the truth Uncinus you annoy me as much as my father does, not a complement.
All your rebuttals are questions that you seem to have NO answers for. Ask yourself. Then rely wittily. >.>
Opinionated FACT: Chemtrails lingering in the air ARE visual pollution, everyone can see it, it is intentional. period. In Salem, Oregon; zero flights are commercial, all military. Theses non-contrials(ice @ 31k+), which are present for large parts of a day, are disturbing the peace, I think of if as graffiti on our skies.
And what more proof do you need?
I feel that regardless of the damage this spaying does, its a slap in the face.
Imagine if every pilots car blew colored smoke out its exhaust. Fines! right?
oh and before they take my freedom of speech,
Defending a person/system that wastes/steals the peoples capitol, makes you an ass!
Love,
Oregon
Oh, my. You aren’t even polite.
The posing of questions as rebuttals allows the posters to consider another possibility and encourages them to think for themselves. It has been used by teachers since Plato and Confucius.
Contrails are not “intentional”. Quite the contrary. They are formed by the natural process of releasing water vapor into a super-saturated very cold atmosphere. When conditions are exacting, they don’t form or sublime quickly. They were not welcome in WW2 because they pointed out where the planes were.
Living near an airbase means you have lots of planes flying all altitudes, conditions, and times. So you will have lots of contrails of differing natures. It really cannot be helped and the Air Force has specialist to forecast them. If you don’t like them, it’s your choice. They’ve always fascinated me. And I live in a mid-American city with a large airport, a small airport, and an active Air National Guard unit. I doubt I get as many as you see, but I wouldn’t choose to live closer to an military base than I do.
So what exactly is your point? You don’t like them, we get that. This is a price we all pay for having an active military air force, air travel as a norm, and living in the 21st century. It can’t be helped, but it’s not dangerous. And just a few like you are annoyed by it.
In other words, please lighten up a bit! Jeez…….
Now there’s a good example of using a question in an argument.
Cars produce contrails exactly the same as planes do. Except it’s not colored smoke, it’s the water vapor in the exhaust. And it’s only visible when it’s very cold, and humid. For planes that quite often, but for cars not so much.
Still, you MUST have seem the vapor from a car on a cold winter’s day? If it’s very cold it will stay around for a while.
https://contrailscience.com/ground-level-contrails/
It’s not smoke.
Star15k,
The “graffiti in our skies” has “fascinated” you, I can relate? I suppose the graffiti I see around has “fascinated” me, but that is art to me.
Vandalism of the sky is not art.
” ” IS INTENTIONAL!
USA patent: 4,686,605
This patent is owned by HAARP. HAARP has lots of power on their hands. Now let us stay on the main topic.
From the patent, “It has also been proposed to release large clouds of barium in the magnetosphere…”
Now, think. That is Intent to me.
Second, I do not want barium in the air, it’s bad for you. or so I hear. non-point.
And Mostly, do not play god with weather! Asinine!
….
Uncinus,
You saw the point and obviously changed course, as expected!
If a car was, by design, blowing extremely visible “gas clouds”, due to pure ignorance or malice, it would be a problem. Same should apply to aircraft.
If you know, please refresh me on how it is possible for water vapor to be visible in the sky for hours. The video at most, showed “contrails” for, maybe 20 secs. Not what someone such as yourself should see as evidence, to debunk “Chemtrails”.
….
& to others,
If you know nothing of HAARP check’m out:
http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/gen.html
Clouds are made of water, exactly like contrails. In fact contrails are considered by meteorologists to be a type of cloud.
Do clouds last for 20 seconds?
After watching that video I went brain dead^^
Regardless, the water in the “”trails are a visual menace, “If your not OUTRAGED, your not paying attention!”. What else is in them? each state? each city? each plane?
It is ambiguous,
HAARP owns the idea to put barium in the sky.
If I can sneak food into a movie theater, who’s to stop someone from putting poisons in our air? Ever heard the term MAD”scientist?
To many things and not enough time
communication still costs a line.
Sure, it’s a visual problem. But obviously most people don’t care, and just take the contrails as a necessary side effect of air travel – much like those ugly streets and freeways are a necessary side effect of cars.
You mentioned “barium in the magnetosphere”, well did you know that the magnetosphere is IN SPACE! It starts at around 200,000,000 feet up. Obviously that’s nothing to do with the trails you see.
There’s nothing to stop anyone from putting poison in the air. However, there is no evidence that anyone is doing it (other that the usual culprits, like industry, cars, and burning biofuels).
Here is evidence:
The Secret Covenant:
http://cryptogon.com/docs/thesecretcovenant.txt
You don’t have to give up everything you believe in Nexus, just think about it. Sometimes science can give you answers that are correct. Sometime not everything you read on the internet is correct. You have to do the work though.
NEXUS:
(Sigh) When the exhaust leaves the turbofan motors of passenger planes (which they mostly are) in the stratosphere (where they mostly are) it’s a mixture of carbon dioxide gas, nitrogen gas, and very hot and invisible STEAM at around 1100 degrees Celsius. As they are all sub-microscopic molecules they only require milliseconds to cool down to the ambient temperature of around -40 degrees Celsius. At the aircraft’s speed of 800 feet per second this normally manifests itself as a visible GAP between engine and the consequent trail. Check out all the videos and films and photos you like – there will ALWAYS be this gap.
Now, STEAM cooling down from 1100 to -40 degrees will HAVE to go through TWO phase changes: to WATER – then to ICE.
This ice then usually slowly sublimes to WATER VAPOR (without going through a liquid phase): the speed at which it can do this is limited by the amount of water ALREADY DISSOLVED in the air. If the air is ALREADY SATURATED (perhaps by successive previous flights in the vicinity, perhaps historically from other stratospheric events), then the trail ice is UNABLE to sublime. If the air is SUPERSATURATED, then the trail ice may get heavier by a factor of several THOUSAND times.
THAT is why trail ice (NOT water vapor – THAT isn’t visible!) may persist in the sky for hours.
Getting back to THAT GAP – that gap shows that what leaves the engines is (at least temporarily) INVISIBLE.
Gases are invisible, vapor is invisible, but liquids and solids are VISIBLE.
So how can there be METAL solids or liquids in the trail?
Or, for that matter, why is Morgellons apparently the only organic material capable of passing undamaged through a 1100 degrees Celsius flame?
When will people begin to understand the patent process? A patent holds the item or idea reserved to the patent holder should such an item or idea should money be made. It gives OWNERSHIP to that idea or item, that is all. It does not mean the item or idea is practical, feasible, has been produced, or even works. That is all. There are millions of patents given out and whole books and websites devoted to ones that are just plain silly. Google “silly patents”. Bing has over 2 MILLION hits.
So please, chemtrail believers, a patent is not an admission of anything more than someone has an idea of something that MIGHT work, MIGHT be made, and MIGHT be used. That is all.
we should find out who owns this url…
Just out of curiousity.
Why don’t you just assume I’m working for a secret government cabal, and then attack my science?
Who owns this URL does not actually effect the laws of nature.
Star15k,
Stop with the hatin!
the point is:
The patent is proof that “SOMEONE INTENTIONALLY” wants to put poison in our sky!
But is it proof that they did it?
And what exactly did they do? Put Barium in in the magnetosphere?
Tell me Nexus, where is the magnetosphere?
Stating facts is far from hate, Nexus. Someone intentional wants to put something in the air perhaps, but to call that something “poison” is your own take on it. Can’t someone who believes in “chemtrails” ever stick to the facts instead of embroidering a snippit of something totally unrelated into a blanket global threat?
I know where and what the magnetosphere is, but believe you should learn how to research real science for yourself, Nexus.
A few comments:
“The patent is proof that “SOMEONE INTENTIONALLY” wants to put poison in our sky!”
No its not. Its proof someone figured out that someone MIGHT want to, or that the idea MIGHT be useful to someone. Ive yet to see a patent that says he idea is for the purpose of poisoning people.
I happen to work for the FAA ( which of course makes me the enemy to those who already think that ), and IM in control towers around air traffic all day long ( Im not a controller though). SOme things said here are so patently wrong that its hard to imagine where to start:
You cant just call a control tower and say “whos this plane above me?”. They wont answer you. its not their job, and even if they are a radar controlled tower (most small airports aren’t), they cant just look at radar and see who owns a plane. It has an identifier and a flight plan, and they would have to look up more info than that, and they have things to do. If you call to complain about something, they will record your complaint and forward it to someone in the FAA that will look into it. Thats the last they will think about it. If you call a big airport, you will never talk directly to a controller. They are not public performers.
Any plane flying over about 4000ft files a flight plan and is tracked from start to finish. The idea that planes at 20,000ft are flying patterns around somewhere to spray is demonstrably false. The air traffic system is so overloaded as it is that planes trying to get from point a to point b are already delayed. I can categorically say than I’ve never seen an aircraft fly grids or x’s in controlled airspace. They take off and follow the airway routes assigned to them and land. Even secret military flights show up on radar. When they are there, they are allowed to do what they need to, and airspace is cleared around them. Controllers know they are there from start to finish. They just aren’t allowed to talk about it.
Lately I’ve seen a lot of stuff posted about the premise that the Barium salts are being used to create RF ducting for battlefield radar imaging. Being a radar tech, I can say that this is either a clever ruse or deliberate disinformation, because it simply wouldnt work. Im not teaching a class on RF and Radar in this thread, so simply put, Ducting is something that damages accurate radar imaging by creating multipath signals. Using something that already deteriorates imaging to try and image a target remotely that defines the idea of creating a multipath is just dumb. Radar works on almost the exact opposite principal at every level and amounts to saying “we invented a long range pair of glasses using unpolished randomly shaped lenses with a really bright light aimed at them”.
If there are any reasonably asked question posed of me, I will try to answer them to the best of my ability, owing to the fact that I’m not going to lose my job by discussing classified or safety related information.
Hello, AnTi,
Ah, a voice of reason AND experience AND training? Welcome…..if you think this is bad, you should watch some “chemtrail” videos on YouTube (not meaning to promote an off-site source, Uncinus). Rampant stupidity reigns. It’s maddening, yet strangely entertaining. Truly some people will believe anything.
Barium in the magnetosphere???. How the hell would a plane flying at 30 to 40 thousand feet be able to but barium into the magnetosphere which is in outer space??? What a joke
I’m amazed how many people post stuff like. Ow those planes are putting chemicals into the thermosphere. They don’t even know what the themosphere is. They don’t even bother doing basic research on the composition of the atmosphere. Information like that is even on Wikipedia.
Keep up the good work Uncinus. There is some stuff in your blog I didn’t know about yet. Very interesting reading.
The reason we have not been able to find any legitimate proof that chemtrails exist is because they simply do not exist. The term is an internet creation to make condensation trails aka contrails sound more sinister.
When you actually look at the facts, as Uncinus proposes, you can see the argument in support of these chemtrails quickly reduces to nothing more than a bundle of pseudo-science, assumption, misguided correlations and unqualified uneducated personal testimony.
I have yet to find for myself one argument for the existence of these ‘chemtrails’ that does not skirt around the real results from real studies from real accredited sources. Instead, I have just found these arguments to resort to personal attacks and contradictory statements.
For example, how can you argue that the government is lying to us to cover this up and at the same time use government information taken out of context as the proof chemtrails exist? Logically, if this is the huge conspiracy, involving thousands of people, falsified studies and an extreme government cover up, wouldn’t the simplest thing these conspirators would do would be to remove those links to themselves?
Of course, this is speculation on my part and should be taken as such. I am not a professional of any kind in this matter and I don’t believe anyone should be convinced on my word alone just as I will never be convinced by your word alone.
What we do have, however, is science and legitimate information. Anyone can access these studies and weigh both sides of this argument and make an educated decision. For me the answer is simple; chemtrails do not exist and so this conspiracy does not exist.
Contrails do exist. Everyday, the number of airplanes in our skies increase as do the number of contrails left behind. Instead of trying to justify our paranoia with fictional conspiracies, we should be looking at what is actually going on in the world we create for ourselves.
Our air is polluted, our water is polluted, our earth is polluted, we don’t need to create something like chemtrails to prove this. Instead of creating government conspiracy in our minds we should acknowledge the real perpetrators, ourselves.
We drive the cars, we fly in the planes, and we ignore the effect each one of us has on the environment around us. No one wants to see the blood on our own hands, an enemy image is easier for us to justify than taking the blame for our own contribution to an increasingly polluted planet.
We desperately need to stop pointing fingers and start taking responsibility for our own actions.
We need to ask ourselves the hard question; What actions or in-actions am I taking that contribute to the problem and what am I doing to create a solution?
The answer is yours alone and yours to reconcile with yourself.
“As long as people believe in absurdities, they will continue to commit atrocities.”
-Voltaire
Well said.
Of course, i posted something here that absolutely proved they were spraying chemicals and my post gets removed. Apparently the truth hurts. Bad.
WRONG Frank! You posted your “absolute proof” ELSEWHERE on the site! And it’s still there…for all to laugh at.
And you wouldn’t know the truth if it jumped up and bit you in the face.
For those interested in seeing Frank’s absolute proof, please go here, where he posted it:
https://contrailscience.com/thirty-contrails-forty-years-ago/comment-page-1/#comment-27899
Post #31
Well said Manmanatee.
You can’t be rational with these people Unicus, as I am certain you know from reading some of these replies. It is a psychological defect that no amount of evidence will ever dispel. They lack even the slight degree of knowledge in a field of study/ but can watch a youboob video and become a Professor.
I think this explains the phenomena
A team led by psychologist Viren Swami of the University of Westminster in London identified several traits associated with subscribing to 9/11 conspiracies, at least among British citizens. These characteristics consist of backing one or more conspiracy theories unrelated to 9/11, frequently talking about 9/11 conspiracy beliefs with likeminded friends and others, taking a cynical stance toward politics, mistrusting authority, endorsing democratic practices, feeling generally suspicious toward others and displaying an inquisitive, imaginative outlook.
His conclusion echoes a 1994 proposal by sociologist Ted Goertzel of Rutgers–Camden in New Jersey. After conducting random telephone interviews of 347 New Jersey residents, Goertzel proposed that each of a person’s convictions about secret plots serves as evidence for other conspiracy beliefs, bypassing any need for confirming evidence.
“Arguments advanced by conspiracy theorists tell you more about the believer than about the event,” Goertzel says.
Swami’s finding that 9/11 conspiracy believers frequently spoke with likeminded individuals supports the notion that “conspiracy thinkers constitute a community of believers,” remarks historian Robert Goldberg of the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. Goldberg has studied various conspiracy theories in the United States.
Conspiracy thinkers share an optimistic conviction that they can find “the truth,” spread it to the masses and foster social change, Goldberg asserts.
Over the past 50 years, researchers and observers of social dynamics have traced beliefs in conspiracy theories to feelings of powerlessness, attempts to bolster self-esteem and diminished faith in government.
Very well written Lojack. I hope that’s all it is. Although, I have read many posts on youtube about kidnapping/killing pilots over their delusions. There is also talk about a revolution over this! I just hope they don’t do anything TOO stupid!
Lojack:
I’ll address these for a moment.
Looking back on it, I was (maybe just barely) in the top 95 percentile of my generation. I obtained 10 ‘O’ level GCEs and 3 ‘A’ levels (in Science) at a time when these weren’t so easy to get (’60 and ’62), and instead of going to a University, I signed up as a student apprentice engineer to the National Gas Turbine Establishment, and continued my education at a technical college that specialized in aeronautical engineering, with workshops and test bays for the performance analysis of every type of internal combustion engine, and wind tunnels for the aerodynamic analysis of aircraft as well – for 47 shillings and sixpence a week. Allowing for inflation, I guess that’s about forty dollars.
Did I feel good? I certainly didn’t. Nobody praised me, ever, and nobody respected me, ever. “They” told me nothing, except when it suited them. They hardly ever carried out their own obligations, either to me or even to themselves.
Was it a good education? Bloody hell, yes.
I worked in laboratories and workshops with machines and stores with materials you could only dream about, and received a fine education in both engineering and what absolute bastards people could be.
In both engineering and the potential for humans to be bastards I received the finest of educations. It took perhaps ten years for me to get over the latter (marrying and raising a family helped), but the former I fell in love with.
How I could have dealt with life (some rotten situation) without work, ambition, marriage, and the love of engineering and science, I am not sure. It’s possible I’ve been very lucky, and others, who have just their rotten situation, and are surrounded by bastards, haven’t been so lucky. One eventually becomes one’s environment, I believe.
With respect to my apprentice situation I have since compared notes with quite a few people who shared my experience and happily they all agreed with me. I wasn’t the odd one out, though at the time we ALL thought we individually were.
Throughout my working life, after the seventies, (engineering) work situations in Britain became progressively worse, so I hate to think what the average work experience has “progressed” to.
And so I feel an extraordinary sympathy for those who seem to be, metaphorically, drowning and clutching at straws. I do feel a need to help them.
I’m retired, I’m happy, I’m living in the sun (apparently that means I’m a Luciferian 🙂 ), so why shouldn’t I help somebody if I can? If it’s at all possible…
My message in a bottle goes:
i) People are too incompetent to be perfect bastards
ii) If you’re cold it’s better to put on a woolly than light a fire
iii) Your back garden can grow more food than you could believe, and
iv) You’re the first animal to become an intellectual, so
v) Respect Nature, garden the Earth and nurture all Life
Every child can tell that this is not a scientific page anyway, but nice chemtrail photos they have here.
To Manco,
Yes, but (educated) adults can tell that the information on this site is factual and confirmed by every atmospheric science book on the planet. Also, they are not photos of “chemtrails”. If you understood the science, you would know that….child. They are photos of persistent contrails. And no matter how many chemtards are fooled into believing otherwise, persistent contrails they will forever remain. Go ahead and prove your ignorance by calling them “chemtrails”. It’s hilarious and pathetic.
Also, please provide us with a link from the “scientific page” that convinced you to accept the “chemtrail” hoax in the first place. What are the qualifications of the people that have convinced you to accept paranoid and ignorant nonsense as “fact”?
Sorry, to admit to believing in “chemtrails” is to admit you are ignorant of so much. It’s sad.
You cavemen/Chicken Littles are so entertaining.
I’ve done it! Actually plowed through over 450 posts of repeated nonsense followed or preceded by rational discussion. You all can judge which ones are which. 🙂
Now I’ve earned the right to post my explanation of one question I never saw answered, and then you can judge my answer.
At post 171 Uncinus wrote:
Ice particles suspended in a dense cloud will move away from one another because of coulombic pressure. This is the “static electricity” which causes a balloon animal to stick to the wall on a dry winter day, or more appropriately, which causes a student’s hair to stick out from their head during a demonstration of the Van De Graf generator in a high school science class.
Static electricity charge builds up on any object when it’s in friction with a dissimilar material, and the polarity of the charge depends on the makeup of the two dissimilar materials. In the case of suspended ice crystals, the air constantly rubs against the ice crystals and the air takes on one charge while the crystals take on the opposite charge. Being much lighter, the air rapidly moves away. The ice doesn’t move so much, and builds up charge until the similar charges repel each other. Just like the hair on the head of that kid in science class, the ice crystals move away from each other.
Whew, I thought I’d never get to the bottom of this page and be able to post this!
jl
You’re quite correct.
It’s all of an electron willy-nilly chaotic dance through molecules and droplets, which are themselves held together by surface tension, which is itself a virtual “mesh” of charge potentials.
The movement of charge controls all the atmospheric microevents which are taking place, and is certainly responsible for every unique property which water itself has.
It isn’t until persistent contrail ice crystals have fallen for some time (and gained a lot of weight) that they will falling fast enough to generate much charge.
In general they evaporate beneath the tropopause before they have a chance to make hail. (Their downward fall would have to coincide with a thunderhead).
If you see hail it normally means there’s lightning about. It’s the speed (of hailstones through air) that does it.
That’s not to say you can’t do the job with droplets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDun7ILKrUI
Why is it that I’ve seen 2 planes, fairly close to each other… one leaves a contrail behind it, long, but it never seems to get any longer. It seems about 4 or 5 times longer than the plane, but after that, it dissipates to nothing… while I see the other plane leaving a trail as far as I can see?
The planes are at different altitudes, with different humidities in the air. Lasting contrails need a specific amount of humidity.
Couldn’t it also be differing propulsion efficiencies of the 2 planes engines causing different trail signatures?
Yes. I think though that the altitude difference is more likely. It could also be a combination of the two factors. Photos would help.
Almost all of you here would benefit from reading “The true believer” by Eric Hoffer. It is considered to be one of the classics in the field and explains why people cling to their views of the world in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
A very old observation: Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead. Consider secrets that have been kept successfully. They are either relatively small, as in who deep throat was, or they were kept in very isolated out of the way areas, as in Alamogordo, or Area 51.
So whether it is swiss banking (Was that ever a secret?) or the dishonesty on Wall Street — which was never a secret — or who killed Kennedy George Hickey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_Error
It is hard to keep secret a one time event. Except for those events that are still secret, no one has ever kept secret, in an open society, an ongoing conspiracy. Well, unless you consider the Federal Reserve 🙂
Thank you for this website. The research you have done astounds me. Please keep up the great work!
Right uncinus,lasting contrails need a specific amount of humidity.And the fact that many lasting “contrails” are occuring in very warm and very dry air suggests that they are likely to be something other than water vapor contrails.You guys always get back to the same argument.Its just contrails,water vapor,super cold air,super saturated air,ice,etc.But you`re forgetting that many contrails(or chemtrails)are appearing and persisting in areas where there is very low humidity and very warm temperatures.This would suggest something other than water vapor.Same thing with clouds.They need very high humidity(around 70%)to form,and yet we often see them in conditions around 30%.Again,this suggests something other than water vapor.Alot of people are also seeing cloud forms and textures for which there is no historical precedence.Again,strongly suggestive of a man-made nuclei being introduced into the atmosphere,and not just water vapor coalescing against normal particulate matter.I`m not a conspiracy theorist or you tuber,but i also dont buy the convenient dismissal of chemtrails as just contrails,water vapor,or the result of heavy air traffic.
Arrrrrrrrrrrgh. HOW ARE YOU MEASURING HUMIDITY AT THAT HEIGHT????
The fact you mention warm temperatures leads me to believe that you are talking about the temperature and humidity at ground level.
But until you explain exactly how you are measuring it then I cannot comment.
JUST TELL US!!!!!!!!!
SHOW US THEN.
Forgive me but your words don’t carry a great deal of weight. Just because they haven’t seen them before doesn’t mean that they haven’t been documented in some book you’d likely find in the library.
You cannot get an accurate humidity reading unless you’re up there at the same time in a plane.\
So stop baiting people…its a WASTE of time. Maybe not yours though.
In Los Angeles the best you can get is a random 100 mile or so reading on the rough time…pretty random.
Cant prove/disprove.
In Los Angeles we have LONG dry times…in fact just a few years ago it only rained 1 day in the whole year!!!
You’re probably in the UK or somewhere where you think “humidity/rainfall” to be extremely common, i’d put money on that.
Its not humid here in LA nor do we have plenty of moisture in the air.
I think one of the biggest problems in communication here (in your debunking quests)
is that most people cannot comprehend how we can
have a 95 degree under 10percent(or lower) humidity SUMMER DAY in Los Angeles…then all of a sudden there are a million planes out criss-crossing the sky..til it VERY VERY VERY commonly turns into a WHITE SHEET/HAZE from horizon to horizon(NO BLUE and not a “real” cloud). Its very hard for people who have grown up here, myself since the late 80’s…to look up at this and feel the suns heat almost magnified…a WHITE HOT BLAZING BLUR everywhere you look in the sky….
and then try to tell people…well its just “ice” from “moisture” in the air..y’know way up there!!
BULLSHIT. Come visit us this summer! I’m sure there will be plenty of aerosol campaigns on.
You cannot dis-prove anything.
That’s called an “argument from personal incredulity“. The identification of supposed chemtrails as contrails is based on science. Lots of people have a problem understanding science. That does not mean everything they do not understand is therefore wrong.
Did you know that humidity in Los Angeles is actually, on average, higher in the summer? That the average humidity is 60%? Never heard of “June Gloom”?
http://www.laalmanac.com/weather/we19.htm
“Sunny and not raining” is not the same as “dry air”.
And of course, the humidity at 30,000 to 40,000 feet is often unrelated to the humidity at ground level.
Oops. relative humidity averages 52.4%, not 60%. See:
http://www.climatetemp.info/usa/los-angeles-california.html
It does average 60% in June though.
I`ve been told that there is often little difference between ground level humidity and humidity at 35,000 to 40,000 feet(where the aerosol aka chemtrails are being made)So it still seems to me a man-made material is being used to make these trails and the cloud cover that results from them.Especially when you look at the appearance of todays clouds vs clouds of the past.And like I say,when you have clouds forming in humidity well below the 70% required,it seems to support the conclusion of atmospheric manipulation of some sort.
chockie, there is usually a VAST difference between the humidity at ground level and the humidity at 35,000 to 40,000 feet. This is very easy to confirm, just look at the measurements:
http://weather.unisys.com/upper_air/skew/skew_KVBG.txt
See the column RH%? Now look at the column HGTH m (height in meters). 35,000 feet is about 10,668 meters. Now that link will give you the daily figures. But as of 00Z (4PM today) now the ground level RH is 58% varies all the way through 90% and back down to 20% at 10,000m.
So my question is: who told you that, and why did you believe them?
Uncinus:
Seeing as 30-40,000 feet is in the stratosphere, which only mixes at Hadley cell boundaries, then perhaps “mostly unrelated” would be closer to the truth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadley_cell
Stop Baiting? Says Mr. Potty Mouth!!!!!
I’d call baiting continually claiming to know what the humidity is at high alititude without revealing sources, personally.
That was the 3rd time I’d asked him to clarify how he was measuring the humidity he was claiming was too low.
Why is asking for clarification a bad thing? For all I knew he could’ve been measuring the humidity with something, in which case I would have to rethink what I believe here.
But no. It turns out that he wasn’t. So I can disregard his claims. But there was no point in disregarding them without knowing the facts.
I find it funny how the guy left the jar for a month then took a sample of it.
Don’t get mad at me chemtrail lovers I’m not even arguing against your view, just stating that the sample is worthless.
Basically, you cannot test a water sample that has been sitting out for a month. The lead level is worse than the Ba for this sample, but the lead shouldn’t be anything to worry about either because evaporation has been taking place. Think about it, take a jar of tap water and let it sit for a month. The water evaporates leaving the metals and salts. If your water has say 25% the alloted lead content we say is safe, eventually evaporation will bring the ppb to an unsafe level. Metals and salts dont evaporate…water does.
Even though we may not agree on the existence of chemtrails, we can agree that this sampling provides no sustenance. If you want to appear as a sensible advocate for the existence of chemtrails you should embrace this as flawed evidence that points to nothing. If you cling to this as proof, even though it is flawed sampling on the basis of basic HS chemistry procedure, you are really developing an online personality that suggests that you hopelessly believe in things besides basic scientific proof. This is not good for your position in the debate at all, as it is easily equated to your overall belief of chemtrail existence.
Again I’m not arguing of the existence, and I have my own opinion formulated. But I urge you, to put your bias aside that is skewing your interpretation. Be level minded and embrace that this evidence doesn’t prove anything. Focus on other evidence you feel is sufficient, and I will be level minded and listen.
Thank You
I have a friend that I talk to often regarding the corruption of America’s government. Eventually he claimed that we were being poisoned by chemtrails (which I had never heard of). So I conducted a search on YouTube and there were a ton of videos that read: “CHEMTRAILS *PROOF* IRREFUTABLE “, then proceeded to show pictures of airplanes with spooky ambient music. I then decided to search for the evidence I was promised and found this. Excuse my unscientific tone, but contrails are awesome! They really are a fascinating, yet fundamentally simple phenomenon. Just wanted to say, Uncinus, thanks for the credible information, especially since any initial media was completely void of any!
I’m really not here to argue the definitive intent/effect of every contrail that has been seen. To me that seems pointless. I will simply leave you with a quote:
“There were no pictures or evidence that indicated anything other than the above contrail formation phenomena. Anecdotal stories of persons getting sick after contrails from obviously supersaturated tropospheric conditions lend no basis for belief that there are chemicals or biological agents being released. This type of story provides as much credence to “chemtrails” as does the belief that drinking milk is causally linked to heroin addiction. (Almost all heroin addicts in the US drank milk as children.)”
– M. Kim Johnson, Physicist (from my home state of New Mexico)
http://www.nmsr.org/mkjrept.htm
Good post Anonymous, but use a user name so we know which “Anonymous” is posting! 😀 Most of them are Chemtrailers, so it can get confusing.
That link leads to an interesting website, yet another disinfo shill paid by the government no doubt. 😛
http://www.nmsr.org/chemtrls.htm
DISINFORMATION. U R OWNED
Unrefutable evidence right there lol.
I have a couple problems with the Barium proposal:
First let’s assume for a minute that they are in fact adding something to the atmosphere and we’ll go ahead and say it is Barium. If you want to affect change by adding Barium you would have to somehow add enough to have some effect but at the same time be indestinguishable from normal Barium levels at ground level. The solution would be to add the required amount high enough in the atmosphere that it would dilute as it fell. So theoretically at altitude it would be at a much higher concentration. Perhaps this high concentration is what causes the chemtrails to be visible at altitude but become invisible as it falls and disperses. Sounds plausible. The problem I have is there is another misconception that when you fly on an airliner you are stuffed into a little metal tube where you breath constantly recycled air. This, of couse, leads to sickness because you are forced to breath the same air as your sick neighbors. This is totally false. All commercial aircraft (except the yet-to-be produced 787) use air from the compression section of the engines to pressurize the cabin. The air is taken in from the atmosphere, compressed (and heated) and then sent into the cabin where it is cooled and then dumped, unfiltered, for the occupants to breath. The air is constantly being sent through the cabin and is regulated by outflow valves. You can’t shut off this airflow for even a short amount of time or the occupants will pass out. So the myth of recycled air is simply a myth.
Now, if you are taking in air and compressing it, whatever is in that air (including Barium) would be highly concentrated. If you allready have high concentrations of some foreign element present you would be concentrating it even further with the aircraft. So therefore, if you are depositing something at altitude (chemtrails), whatever is in those trails would not only be present in much higher quantities at altitude in order to facilitate a functional depersive affect, you would find it present inside the pressurized aircraft at much, much, much higher levels due to the compressive effects of the pressurization system. Therefore you should expect to see physiological effects in passengers and pilots at a substantially higher frequency then any of the non-flying public. Is this the case?
Secondly, and I haven’t searched the entire thread so I apologize if this has been mentioned but Barium has a melting point of 760 or so. If you were dispersing it through aircraft engines it would melt during our high temperature starting process and there would be Barium, or a Barium coumpound, all over our turbines, ruining them. Same for aluminum. You would need something that survives around 950 C.
Just two points I wanted to bring up- thank you.
Howdy, thought you might be interested in a little bit of research I did some time ago regarding the barium found in the area mentioned above.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread446066/pg2#pid6017800
Cheers!
Sorry, messed up the link! lol
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/single/6017800.html
Thanks Chadwickus. I’d noted that Arkansas is one richest natural sources of Barium in the world, but it’s also interesting that it’s used in the local industry.
Of course, even given all that, the amounts found are not particularly high, given the collection method (two bowls on the hood of a car for a month).
Uncinus….
I’ve read the aricles, looked at the various videos, and read ALL the comments. You have your work cut out for you. No matter how much proof you offer, the nay-sayers and conspiracy buffs will defy you. I commend you for your efforts. One little news station in Arkansas can set off a tirade of ill-informed cry babies….. especially the guy in California who works with people who call in sick to work on days after “heavy spraying”.
Uncinus– What are your credentials? Do you work for the US Gov’t and/or a subsidiary, contractor or recipient to US Gov’t grants or funding? Your prejudice is obvious; thank you. Glad to hear the spin. Keep it going, we need to hear the spin; the obvious (quite possibly) scares the hell out of us.
I’m just some guy. No credentials. I can fly single engine VFR, but that’s about it.
ɥɥɥƃn ˙ɥƃnoɥʇ ƃuısusɐǝןɔ uoןoɔ ɐ ǝɹınbǝɹ ןן,ʇı sʎɐs ǝɥ ˙ǝɯ ɟo ʇno pǝɥsɐʍ ɯnıɹɐq ǝɥʇ ןןɐ ʇǝƃ oʇ ʎɐpoʇ ɹoʇɔop ǝɥʇ oʇ ƃuıoƃ ɯ,ı ¡¡ʍou ʇɥƃıן ǝɥʇ ǝǝs ı ¡¡¡¡¡ןɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ sןıɐɹʇɯǝɥɔ
Oh boy, more conspiracy nuts calling out Uncinus as a “covert government shill” or something to that effect. Is it really such a stretch of the imagination that someone is trying to help others on their own free time? Is it so hard to believe that someone tries to spread scientific fact instead of false and misleading disinformation like chemtrailers do?
Heh yeah, he is so biased towards science it really IS obvious.
Why do the chemtrailers believe Barium or something else is being released in the atmosphere ?
The admitted mistake by the news reporter, showed no high content of Barium.
Farmland soil is often tested for chemicals, as is graze-land, forests, aquifer water, well water, lakes, reservoirs, streams/rivers, and the ocean. This is done by gov’t labs, as well as labs in the private sector.
Where is all this “years of spray” ?….that is supposedly killing us ? Where are all the damaging test results ?
“We can see them spraying it, so we know it’s there.” This is akin to saying that “the fog rolling in from the coast means that the ocean is on fire”.
Speaking of oceans (and to those who believe the gov’t is spraying humans)…..there are persistant contrails over the world’s oceans, too. Why ?
It’s basically an urban legend. The mistakes just keep getting repeated. The videos stay on YouTube, people keep confusing their units. People don’t know that local water boards test the water. People make basic science mistakes. On it goes.
http://www.infowars.com/shhh-what-if-it-was-reported-that-they-are-spraying-aluminum/
This is the latest article on chemtrails that has gone viral on the web. I wonder if you can comment on the chemical soil testing done in the video. The writer lives in Los Angeles and is really pushing this agenda.
This has already been discussed, see the comments in this thread:
https://contrailscience.com/contrail-season-in-los-angeles/comment-page-3/#comment-44747
Basically Aluminum within a normal range was found. There’s a lot of aluminum in the earth’s crust (7% of it is aluminum). It’s everywhere, in various concentrations.
That article says…
“Dispersing massive amounts of ultra-fine aluminum particulates as proposed by geo-engineers into the stratosphere would have unquantifiable human health and environmental impacts”
So, they’ve been doing this for what, about 20 years?
Would someone care to unquantify the human health and environmental impacts that 20 years of spraying aluminium has caused?
Either it has no quantifiable impact, or it isn’t being sprayed.
So which one is it?
After researching this data and with my own observations and polling those of my peers; I am convinced that there is a deliberately coordinated effort being made to saturate the sky with manmade clouds formed by vapor trails emanating from jet airplanes. I am not concerned with the composition of these clouds or what is emitted from these ‘spray-planes.’
I’m just stating that there is an obvious program underfoot and only the most naive among us would say other wise. the Uncinus Group should be commended on their due diligence. They are top of their game. Good work! An excellent read, indeed.
Thank you for the entertainment.
The rest of you need to lighten up.
Wait- are you saying you believe in the theory or not? If you do believe it is systematic you should be able to point to the evidence of a system. What is your evidence?
Capfitch, my evidence is in plain site. It’s observation. Just look up.
To satisfy my curiosity, I have logged climate events on and off for some 2 months, now and have been guilty of taking photos of the same sky nearly every day. One need not be a rocket scientist to see that there is something deliberate in this scheme. Yet, I do not see how it effects my person directly, so I perceive no immediate threat. Do you?
I have not seen a return to this presumably clandestine activity since Easter Sunday. If these so-called spray planes appear again, I shall report as such. Meanwhile, it’s back to living in the ‘Matrix,’ eh?