Update: If you are looking for a debunking of Why In The World Are They Spraying, first check out this post, as the second film really depends on the first being true, then have a look at the various errors in Why In The World Are They Spraying, detailed here:
http://metabunk.org/threads/712-Factual-Errors-in-quot-Why-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-quot
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The documentary film “What in the World are They Spraying“, by Michael J. Murphy, attempts to promote the Chemtrail Conspiracy Theory (which states that long lasting contrails are actually the result of secret government spray operations), and proposes a possible explanation: that the trails are part of a geoengineering project involving injecting large amounts of aluminum into the atmosphere to block the suns rays.
Multiple parallel trails over Mt Shasta, California. Taken in 1989, ten years before the chemtrail operations were supposed to have begun.
The basic premise of the film is:
- Normal Contrails fade away quickly
- Scientists have talked about geoengineering using aluminum sprayed from planes
- Since 1999, trails have been observed to persist for a long time
- Tests in various locations at ground level have found different levels of aluminum
- Monsanto has genetically engineered aluminum resistant crops
- The government denies any spraying or geoengineering is going on
- THEREFORE: The trails are aluminum being sprayed as part of a secret government geoengineering project.
Normal contrails can persist and spread
That reasoning is somewhat suspect even if you accept all the points. But where it really falls down is that it’s based on a false assumption – that “normal” contrails quickly fade away. In reality, normal contrails can persist for hours and spread out to cover the sky. Whether they do this or not is entirely dependent on the atmospheric conditions that the plane is flying through, so it depends on the weather, and on the altitude of the plane. This is something that has been observed since 1921. Just look at any book on the weather, like this one from 1981:
They tested sludge, not water
So the film is based on a false premise and builds upon it to an inevitable false conclusion. But what about the aluminum tests? You can find the tests referenced in the film here:
https://contrailscience.com/files/chemtrails_basic_lab_report.pdf
And this is the one shown in the film, which they claim should be pure water:
Pond with low aluminum in the sediment. The film mistakenly claims the level are high by comparing them to water levels. Note the rocks (8% aluminum) that line the edges, and the bottom.
The bottom line here is that they are testing sludge rather than water. Sludge is water mixed with dirt. Dirt is naturally 7% aluminum. That’s all they are finding.
The first aluminum result is from the pond, discussed at the start of part 3, and it’s 375,000 ug/l. What they don’t mention is that it’s from pond sediment, sludge. So essentially it’s not testing water, but is instead testing the amount of aluminum in soil. So that’s 375 mg/kg for sediment that has settled in a pond over several years. That’s actually quite low. Aluminum concentration in soil ranges from 0.07% to 10%, but is typically 7.1%, or 71,000 mg/kg. The amount of aluminum found in the sludge is quite easily explained by windblown dust. It’s low, probably because it’s a new pond, so a lot of the sediment is vegetable matter.
Then there are the rain readings. 33, 262, 650, 188, 525, 881, 84, 815, 3450, 2190 ug/L. Wildly different values, some high sounding, some low. But no details are provided that correlate these different numbers of contrail activity. If this variation were due to aerial spraying, then surely a match would be found. These numbers simply tell us that different tests produced different results. It does not tell us why. No details of the sampling procedure are given, or the weather conditions preceding the test. Nor are we told what are the expected levels of aluminum to be found under these conditions.
Rain gauge used for the aluminum test. Note the mounting bracket appears to be made from aluminum.
Rain water contains particulates from airborne dust. The amount of particulates will vary greatly based on the weather. A sample from a brief intense storm after a dry period would give you more particulates than a sample taken in the middle of several days of rain. The amount of particulates in the sample would also vary with how long the container is left out in the open. Dust will settle on the container if it’s left out for a while, increasing the amount of aluminum found. All these tests are really telling us is how much dust the sample was contaminated with.
How much aluminum is there in the dust? Let’s say it’s about the same as the amount of aluminum in soil (although it’s probably higher). How much dust is there in rain? According to Edward Elway Free of the the United State Bureau of Soils, in his book “The Movement of Soil Material by the Wind“, in tests performed by Tissandier, rain water contained 25,000 to 172,000 ug/L of particulates. But he notes “As the amounts of rain and snow which fell in the various cases are not given, the figures are of little value. The first drops of a rain storm will of course contain the largest percentage of dust, and as the storm continues the air is gradually wasted clean.”. Still if only 1% of the lowest figures there were aluminum, then that’s still 250 ug/L. And at a quite plausible 10% of the upper range, that’s 17,200 ug/L. A range that easily covers the observed test results.
See also the Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences, VOl 4, 1967, which shows Aluminum found in rain in the range 520 ug/L to 1,120 ug/L, over 13 different tests. This shows that the results in 1967 (when presumably there were no chemtrails) are pretty much the same as the results the WITWATS is getting. Nothing unusual.
Tens of thousands of time the “maximum limit” for water. Sure. But you were not testing water, you were testing dirt
The soil tests are where a typical mistake is made – conflating the percentage of the metal in one substance (soil) with the typical percentages in others. As noted, soil aluminum naturally ranges from 0.07% to 10%, and is typically around 7.1%, which is 71,000 mg/kg. The tests from Oregon (see sheet 16 in the pdf) list quite ordinary results for soil of 18,600 to 38,000. But then they note the results are “Tens of thousands of times the maximun limit for water“, which is true, but they are not testing water, they are testing soil, and it less than half the normal value for soil.
They continue this on the next page, with a low soil aluminum value of 10,500 mg/kg (just 1% aluminum), and yet note: “Near playground Sisson Elementary 300‘ away”. As if this is somehow dangerous to children. It’s just normal soil, as found in any playground, anywhere, ever.
Aluminum is everywhere, in various quantities
- Aluminum is the most abundant metallic element in the earth’s crust, about 8% of the ground is aluminum. In some places, like the Hawaiian islands, it’s 30-60%!
- Aluminum is everywhere, in the food we eat, and the air we breath (as dust)
- Aluminum is in daily contact with us, in soda cans, cookware, aluminum cooking foil, construction, transportation, baseball bats, etc.
- The amount of aluminum in any location varies naturally. In some places there is a lot, in others there is very little.
- Contamination of samples with aluminum is very common due to it’s abundance and common usage. Unless careful control samples are taken, then the results are often wildly inaccurate.
- One of the tests in the film was water collected by a schoolgirl in a mason jar. Mason jars occasionally have aluminum lids
- Another was taken from a ski area snow pack in early summer. Skis, ski grooming equipment, and ski towers use aluminum. (Update: it is not an active ski area, so more likely it’s just dirt contamination, as the sample was taken in July)
- Aluminum is a common ingredient in antiperspirants and antacids such as Mylanta.
Aluminum resistent crops have been a goal for 100 years
And knowing that aluminum is very common will also answer why Monsanto would want to develop aluminum resistent crops. It will increase yields in areas with acidic soil. Given the ubiquitous presence of aluminum in the ground, and the fact that aluminum ion levels (Al3+) due to soil acidity have been a known problem for a hundred years , it’s hardly surprising that someone would try to make crops have a higher resistance to it. Here’s the Botanical Gazette of the University of Chicago, Volume 71, page 159, from 1921.
Note the reference at the bottom: “Aluminum as a factor in soil fertility”. Note also they are discussing how to “reduce the toxicity of aluminum salts” in the ground. So if scientists were doing it 90 years ago, then why exactly is it somehow suspicious that they are doing it now? For more discussion, see:
http://metabunk.org/threads/341-Debunked-Monsanto-s-Aluminum-Resistant-GMOs-and-Chemtrails
Discussing ≠ Doing
Finally, what of the government discussions of geoengineering, and their denials that anything is going on? Exactly. What of it? They discuss geoengineering because it’s something that people might actually want to do in the future, so we’d better talk about it now, so we can figure out what problems might occur. The concerns about health effects and effects on the environment are perfectly valid concerns, but they are not evidence that a spraying program is currently underway.
Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif), chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, has no idea what you are talking about, because there is no government geoengineering project, just a few scientists talking about it.
And the most reasonable explanation for why they deny they are doing it because they are not actually doing it. The congressmen interviewed in the film claim they they are not familiar with it because they are not familiar with it. They don’t want to talk about it because they don’t know anything about it. There’s nothing sinister going on there. The congressmen are simply not familiar with this one particular theoretical geoengineering method (or probably any theoretical geoengineering method), so when they are buttonholed by someone who rather intensely asks them if they approve of it, then it’s quite understandable they don’t want to talk to him.
The film presents the conferences on geoengineering as if they are somehow secret and clandestine operations that need to be revealed to the public. In reality, geoengineering of this type has been discussed for at least sixty years. It’s hardly covered up, as the discussion has been constantly in the news, often front page news, since 2006, and has been making occasional mainstream news stories since the 1980s, with thousands of publicly accessible research papers over the last sixty years. There’s no evidence anyone was doing it sixty years ago, there’s no evidence anyone was doing it in 2006, and as far as anyone can tell, nobody is doing it now. Denials are not admissions, and discussing something is not the same as doing it.
I don’t want to make this article too long, but I’ve noticed a few more problems with the documentary, see the comment section for more info.
You’re DEBUNKED all over the net, F’in amateurs. Lol…
oh, where exactly Joey? I’d love to read that. You wrote it in CAPS too, so I assume that means said bunk removal was extra scientific, unbiased and thorough. I can’t wait.
clearly…Uncinus=gov disinfo agent.
And your evidence for that is what??
Lots of people say so – none ever bother to try to provide some evidence to back it up beyond the fact that he clearly debunks what needs debunking……
A leaked report of chemical testing on civilians in the UK. Well worth a read!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience
That’s not a leaked report. It’s not “chemical testing on civilians” either. It’s about dispersion tests, using substances that were thought to be harmless, to see how far the wind would blow them.
Many substances considered harmless turn out to be killers. Asbestos dust anyone?
A quote from the above article rings alarm bells:
Sue Ellison, spokeswoman for Porton Down, said: ‘Independent reports by eminent scientists have shown there was no danger to public health from these releases which were carried out to protect the public.
‘The results from these trials_ will save lives, should the country or our forces face an attack by chemical and biological weapons.’
Asked whether such tests are still being carried out, she said: ‘It is not our policy to discuss ongoing research.’
Ongoing research?
I feel wheezy just thinking about it!
Well, of course they are not going to tell you what they are NOT doing – or you could figure out what they WERE doing by a process of elimination. Pretty obvious really.
But what’s the evidence they are doing anything similar now that looks exactly like contrails?
The vast majority of those old tests were NOT sprayed from aircraft. So why arn’t you going around suspecting THAT?
Why contrails?
quotes from the above 10 year old link.
“a generator was towed along a road near Frome in Somerset where it spewed the chemical for an hour”.
“These releases came from a military ship, the Icewhale, anchored off the Dorset coast, which sprayed the micro-organisms in a five to 10-mile radius”.
“In 1956 bacteria were released on the London Underground at lunchtime along the Northern Line between Colliers Wood and Tooting Broadway”.
“attaching germs to the threads of spiders’ webs in boxes to test how the germs would survive in different environments”.
“anthrax and other deadly germs on tests aboard ships in the Caribbean and off the Scottish coast during the 1950s”.
not really anything to do with con/chemtrails, eh big john…..
Rob what about all those makes you think that airliners today are “spraying” anything??
BTW yuo can see a video of a British aircraft conducting one of the actual “sprays” on YT – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyJ4y7XxSBI – & it doesn’t look much like a contrail at all.
““These releases came from a military ship, the Icewhale, anchored off the Dorset coast, which sprayed the micro-organisms in a five to 10-mile radius”.”
Rob, surely using such disclosure to somehow make a connection to trails left behind passenger jets is weaker than using it to claim it explains the white wakes behind boats. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQLbSHYvTvo
If you dismiss the speedboat “chemwakes” claim by saying that the physics of boat wakes is well understood by scientists then perhaps it might be appropriate to apply such logic to trails behind aircraft?
In Defense of Rob…I believe he is also of the same mind that those tests had nothing to do with supposed “chemtrails”…his last sentence he is questioning Big John’s assertion…
at least thats how I read it…
The past few days I’ve not noticed the usual planes crossing over our area and coincidentally enjoyed bright blue skies. Now the planes are back and we’re overcast with the same thick grey flat clouds we’ve been seing for months.
Here’s a video showing images of passenger jets with seats removed to make way for mysterious barrels. I don’t think they are full of beer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igFH0pAlcGY
1 min 30 secs in.
Maybe they are trying to protect us from the effects of the giant energy field that our solar system has now penetrated.
The Sun is becoming more active with CMEs, sunspots while on earth we’ve had four earthquakes above mag. 8.0 since 2005. Even weather patterns on other planets are changing.
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/15oct_ibex/
Yes, the barrels look mysterious until you understand that you were hoaxed into believing they were something other than water. Here’s the explanation you weren’t supplied with at the youtube video:
https://contrailscience.com/contrail-or-chemtrail/
Isn’t it nasty how people want to hoax others?
Facebook page for WITWATS
http://www.facebook.com/#!/WhatintheWorldAreTheySpraying
I would just like to point out that after posting some questions/challenges to chemtrails, and demanding proof of claims, I was banned from posting in that fb group and all my posts were deleted. Typical.
I am still there and asking questions. However, they are going to pray for me.
So, Michael J. Murphy and G. Edward Griffin have a facebook page and when you asked for proof of their claims, you get banned and your posts get deleted?
These are not the actions of men who are in search of the truth. They are the actions of men who are frightened by freedom, and where it leads.
I am very disappointed and will be speaking directly with Mr. Griffin about this situation very soon.
Jay Reynolds
That Porton Down footage is most interesting, since the substance being sprayed disperses almost immediately, rather than persisting in the atmosphere (which is actually what you’d expect if the aim of the spraying was to affect anything on the ground, I mean, come on, people, if you want something to affect the ground, why would you make it persist in the atmosphere? That makes no sense.
Obviously the geoengineering theory makes a little more sense – if you want to create cloud cover, then you DO want something that will persist in the atmosphere. But then we need proof, not speculation, and ‘just asking questions’ is speculation.
I’m looking at persistent contrails now – and also at water vapour coming off the fence as the sun hits it, so I’d say the atmosphere down here is pretty moist as well!
The Shasta Group whose testing underlies WITWATS is headed by Francis Mangels, Mauro Martins de Oliveira, and Dane Wigington. They were the impetus for the movie which was produced by Michael J. Murphy and co-produced by G. Edward Griffin, though Griffin told me it was basically handed to him nearly completed.
Readers might consider the information below of interest.
I have reviewed some of the claims of Fancis Mangels here:
http://metabunk.org/threads/154-The-Claims-of-Francis-Mangels-a-Factual-Examination
Of Dane Wigington here:
http://metabunk.org/threads/282-Dane-Wigington-s-speech
Of Michael J. Murphy here:
http://metabunk.org/threads/172-The-Claims-of-Michael-J.-Murphy-A-Factual-Examination
I recently contacted all of these individuals seeking some of the data which they have previously claimed to have. They are refusing to publicly present the data which they say underlies their claims:
http://metabunk.org/threads/267-Proposal-for-a-quot-Chemtrails-Information-Freedom-Aagreement-quot
These men are being irresponsible.
This probably has come up already but, if contrails are persistent because of temperature, pressure or altitude, then all planes flying through the same general area should leave a persistent contrail. But if this was the case, then how is it that I’ve watched on many occasions multiple planes in the same area, some trails disappearing immediately like they should, and other stretching hundreds of miles, from horizon to horizon and remaining many hours? I have lived through many climate conditions and can say that never once have I seen this same sort of persistent vapor cloud come from anything but the rear of an airplane. I (and I would assume you as well) have never once exhaled and had my breath visibly hang in the air for three hours.
Regardless of whether the trails are intentional or not, isn’t the fact that these trails can completely fill the sky over entire cities still a cause for concern? Even regular exhaust is filled with pollutants and toxic particles. I’ve watched crystal clear blue skies totally changed over to a milky haze with no trace of blue left. If there is enough of it to blanket the sky, there’s enough to blanket the ground below it. It has to drop some time. Honestly, if it is just exhaust, we’d probably be better off if it is aluminum. No matter how you slice it, it’s a problem, and the longer it’s ignored, the worse it will get.
DH, your first question… a contrail will persist if it forms in ice-supersaturated conditions – high humidity. It is a yes/no condition. The air is either ice-supersaturated or not – there is no “grey area”. A small change in altitude could be the difference. In the nature of things, humidity can change a lot in a small vertical distance, and layers of high (or low) humidity can extend horizontally for hundreds of miles.
Your second point. Yes, the climate scientists are becoming increasingly concerned about the radiative effect of all this aviation induced cirrus, either directly from the immediate formation of contrails, or indirectly by the injection of trace amounts of ice nuclei in the pollutant component of the exhaust – sulphates, nitrates, soot.
By far the biggest component, the one you can see (if it condenses) is water vapour. The condensed or frozen states to eventually fall and the evaporate long before they reach the ground. You may have seen virga, fall streaks, or cirrus uncinus. The lower extremities of these cloud forms are where the ice is ablating (evaporating) to invisible water vapour.
I hope that clears things up for you. Thanks for asking.
DH, Re: your first question about why contrails persist or not.
see more discussion here:
https://contrailscience.com/why-planes-make-vapor-trails/
https://contrailscience.com/why-do-some-planes-leave-long-trails-but-others-dont/
https://contrailscience.com/broken-contrails/
https://contrailscience.com/contrail-gaps-and-other-questions/
Recognize that besides the points Ross made about atmospheric condtions, differences in engines or the throttle position can change contrail formation and persistence. For instance, a plane which throttles down during a descent or fnal leg of a flight will be using very little fuel and is therefore more likely to create a non-persistent contrail even in the exact same airspace that another plane with a higher throttle setting makes a persistent contrail.
Re: your second point regarding pollution.
Recognize that pollution will be the same whether a plane is creating a contrail or not, the engines are still making the same pollutants that cars, buses, power plants and barbecues and boy scout campfires make. Mostly CO2 and water, with varying amounts of nitrogen and sulfur compounds from the atmosphere and fuel.
Ironically, the main way that the visible contrail could be avoided, which is to fly lower below the cold air needed to form a trail, puts the jet in warmer air, but also makes the engine less efficient and burns more fuel, causing greater pollution.
I never really bought into the whole chemtrails thing just because of the amount of it. It just seems ridiculous that that many people would be in on the secret. You did clear up a few things. But just to push the issue a little further, just a couple more questions so I can put my mind at ease. These two questions are follow ups to my previous questions-
First question, does this imply that the conditions on the surface never reach the same temp, pressure, etc that they do at high altitudes? I live in New England and have been in temps from over 100 to well below 0, and we have all forms of precipitation here. I have never exhaled and had my breath hang in the sky for hours. So, the only explanation I can think of is that on the ground it never reaches the same temp, pressure etc that it does at high altitudes.
Second question. If the climate scientists are concerned about this phenomenon, does that imply that when these trails spread out and blend with other trails, forming a blanket of this stuff in the atmosphere, can it be effecting the clouds around it. Basically, is it causing changes in weather and weather patterns, whether intentional or not. Is it having the same effect as so called chemtrails supposedly do?
Sorry, didn’t see your last response. I think question one is pretty much cleared up. I guess that just leaves my final question. Are these trails, or airplane exhaust in general, causing changes in weather patterns?
Not really a major changes in weather patterns. They are though thought to have a small impact on globals warming – a cooling by day and warming by night effect, with a slight net warming effect (as the night effect is much greater). It’s still not clear exactly what this effect amounts to though.
You can get contrail conditions at ground level in the arctic and antarctic, alaska, Nth Canda, Russia, etc. But of course not many a/c there, so not a lot of video evidence. I couldn’t find a video of “Ice Pilots” contrail from one of their old a/c at ground level.
But this one on YT from Antactica has both aircraft and vehicle “persistent contrails” at ground level – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtISR1_OzSQ – at about 4 minutes you can see a truck in the foreground making one, and in the background the ice fog has really built up into quite a bank.
Some of it is obviously blown snow – but you can clearly see the contails coming out teh C-130 exhausts on the ground, and of course after it takes off.
Unc-
Does the slight warming effect take in all consideration including the reduced flights at night? I guess I find it hard to believe that the difference between benefit and detriment depending on day vs. night is so high that the reduced night hours don’t balance the problem.
Yes it does. Partly because during the winter when there are more contrails, there’s also a lot more hours of darkness.
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/integration/research/newsalert/pdf/30na2.pdf
Lots of uncertainty though. See:
http://www.atmos-chem-phys.org/7/3153/2007/acp-7-3153-2007.pdf
I am truly amazed at this site ! For the past two years I have had to watch aerosol spraying by high flying planes sometimes up to seven flying and spraying ,one after the other in as short a time as 20 minutes almost tale to tale. Call it whatever you want , if it makes you happy , but what it is ,is “”experimentation with our atmosphere””. It is not natural , it spreads , blocks the sunlight , and in due course whatever contaminants are in the spraying will fall to earth. It will be obsorbed by all living matter including all of you and me.It will enter our food chain and our water. You along with me will also breath in the nano particals as they fall to earth. I dont think anyone would disagree with those exceedly easy facts of life to understand. So if you all agree with that very simple summery , I will now tell you about a international law , called the “”Nuremberg Code”” . This law stipulates that “”no”” person of any rank or position in life , in any nation state, has the right to experiment without the direct written concent of every individual, to be used in any experiment, without full knowledge of that experiment known to them and with that individuals consent. To understand fully what I am saying , anyone here who in any way consents to indiscriminate experiments whatever they might be, that will impact on me, I BERTHA QUAYLE WHO DOES “”NOT”” GIVE ANY PERSON ANY RIGHT UNDER LAW TO EXPERIMENT ON ME WITHOUT MY CONSENT. I THEREFOR INFORM YOU ALL, I DO NOT GIVE CONSENT FOR YOU OR ANY INDIVDUAL TO RUN EXPERIMENTS IN THE ATMOSPHERE THAT I DEPEND ON TO SUPPORT MY LIFE AND ALL LIVING THINGS ON THE PLANET. BY AEROSOL SPRAYING OF OUR SKY FOR ANY REASON PROPOSED BY ANY AUTHORITY OR INDIVIDUAL OR ANY INDIVIDUAL WHO GIVES VERBAL CONSENT DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY THAT SUCH EXPERIMENTS ARE EXCEPTABLE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM, AND THEREFOR SUPPORTS SUCH EXPERIMENTS ON ME, ARE FROM THE POINT OF READING THIS CLAIM OF PROTECTION UNDER THE NUREMBERG CODE WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR CRIMES AGAINST MY PERSON AND AGAINST HUMANITY. I BERTHA QUAYLE HAVE MADE MY CASE UNDER THE NUREMBERG CODE TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE BROKEN THIS LAW AGAINST ME.
Hi Bertha. Did you know that the trails from planes are called “contrails”. It’s condensed water. When the air aloft is humid then they form ice clouds.
But that’s all they are, just ice clouds. They come in different sizes and last different times depending on the altitude of the plane and the humidity, and the engine settings. But they are all just clouds. Nobody is testing anything on you – at least not from planes.
This has been admitted by so many.. “globalists” or whatever ye wish to call ’em. Read some of the books from the top wankers in the US government and institutions and you will be surprised what plans they reveal and brag about 🙁
Even John P Holdren (current Director of Science for Obama in White House) now admits that they have been conducting these experiments for decades (the manipulation of Earth’s atmosphere with Barium salts, Aluminum Dioxide and other toxic compounds)
NASA and other institutions have also found in studies done over 5 years ago, that earth was receiving 20%! less sunlight than 10 years before.
Some links:
Colossal GeoEngineering in Plain Sight
http://www.infowars.com/colossal-geoengineering-in-plain-sight/
Plans from CFR: “Geoengineering: Workshop on Unilateral Planetary Scale Geoengineering.”
http://www.cfr.org/project/1364/geoengineering.html
Public Awareness of Geoengineering Science Increasing
http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2011/10/public-awareness-of-geoengineering.html
Theinfoisoutthere wrote:
“Even John P Holdren (current Director of Science for Obama in White House) now admits that they have been conducting these experiments for decades (the manipulation of Earth’s atmosphere with Barium salts, Aluminum Dioxide and other toxic compounds) NASA and other institutions have also found in studies done over 5 years ago, that earth was receiving 20%! less sunlight than 10 years before.”
I checked the links you provided, but none of them had any evidence for the things you claim above.
In the video, the fellow with a sore throat admits what he is doing,
He says, “This is mass mind control.”
Sounds like Henry Kissinger’s NLP.
I see that the fellow with a sore throat, Alex Jones, is featured on this youtube video.
Very interesting!
Are Chemtrails Real? :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y97OK6qEIz0
Theinfoisoutthere wrote:
“Even John P Holdren (current Director of Science for Obama in White House) now admits that they have been conducting these experiments for decades (the manipulation of Earth’s atmosphere with Barium salts, Aluminum Dioxide and other toxic compounds)”
As far as I am aware he has said that geoengineering should be investigated/considered – it is “on the table” – and nothing more. Eg http://www.prisonplanet.com/obama-science-advisor-repeats-geoengineering-talking-point.html
Have you got a link to anywhere he has said that these experiments have been going on??
Sounds like a case for Metabunk’s “Quotes Debunked” forum.
Here you go.
http://metabunk.org/threads/315-Debunked-Holdren-admits-Obama-Administration-is-performing-Geoengineering
Feel free to add to the thread there. So we can make it a comprehensive place that can be linked to when this myth comes up again.
You should be ashamed of yourself and your whole disinformation campaign.
http://www.stopsprayingcalifornia.com . For those that seek the truth.
dianna the site you link to says “Chemtrails look like jet exhaust contrails that disappear in 30-40 seconds in the sky. ” – usually chemtrails are said to be the ones that last longer than a few minutes.
Could you please clarify which it is for me??
Also it has a link that says – “Life Expectancy drops 8.3 years in U.S. over last 10 years” – but heh article it links to says nothing of the sort – it says that the US has dropped to 49th in terms of life expectancy.
The wiki article on LE has the US at 36th – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy#List_by_the_United_Nations_.282005-2010.29 – with a combined average of 78.5 years – compared to 77.1 in 2000 for the chart the website links to.
You lot of so called ‘debunkers’ are a bunch of ‘jokers’ more like! My colleague brought my attention to this site the other week, and what a bunch of baloney it is!I was also informed that you moderated and only post the comments you see as aiding to your pursuit of bulls@#!…
So my question to you all so called aware is… who funds this site?
Not a very hard question, but lets see if you bother to answer or avoid like the last times you’ve been asked?
I, Mick West (Uncinus), fund this site. It does not cost very much, as it’s just web hosting, on a server that is shared with other sites.
Now, can you point out anything wrong with the site? I’ll correct any mistakes that you point out.
Regarding moderating, currently the only comments that are moderated are those from your IP address, because that same IP address was used by user “Another Uncinus” to repeatedly post the same thing over and over. The same IP address was also used by “Got you sussed“, “LaughingOutLoud“, “Uncinus BLOCKED ME from commenting“, “Johnny Cochran“, and “Bunch of jokers“. All of this users posted similar material that simply paraphrased “you suck” or similar sentiments, without offering factual rebuttals.
If this continues, then this IP address will be banned.
Please contribute constructively by addressing the actual points raised here, and explaining where you think I am wrong. Again I am more than happy to correct any mistakes you find.
It’s not nice to use multiple ID “sock puppets” to make a point on the same forum, oe person pretending to be many dfferent people at the same time. That sort of thing gives you ZERO credibility, even among those who might otherwise agree with your message. It is cheating, lying, and hoaxing all at the same time. No one wants that sort of dishonesty on their team, beause if such a person woud stoop to such measures against anyone, they are not trustworthy to anyone.
Since you just HAVE TO try and debunk this film, you better be 100% positive that geoengineering is NOT slowly killing us! If you are wrong, you do realize the consequences…? Let’s say you are wrong (and I’m almost positive that you are), now what? Are you going to use your quality time to try and help spread TRUTH the the masses? Or are you just a debunker… thats just what you do.
It’s dangerous to try and encourage a society to be carelessly care free by constantly telling them everything is going to be ok. I true patriot questions authority. A true patriot questions their government. The only thing these filmmakers do in their documentary is ask questions. The scientist in their interviews have their credible opinions and you have yours.
But telling us that condensations of water vapor can last up to hours in the sky over is a joke.
And sure, natural aluminum spews from volcanoes and coal mines, but I am not a coal miner with lung cancer, nor do I live near any volcanoes. And since your so sure of aluminum and it’s natural place on this planet: what about the measures of BARIUM and STRONTIUM? Where are these TOXINS listed in your research?
Riddle me this Batman:
Pretty damn sure I’ve seen checkerboards of CHEMTRAILS in the sky sit and spread out for hours over Arizona in the dead heat of summer.
I don’t know who you work for, but have fun deleting this.
What is it you want to know about barium and strontium?
Clouds are condensations of water vapor. Have you never seen a day that was cloudy for hours? Same thing with contrails. They are just man-made clouds.
Asking questions is great. But you also need to check your facts.
Whistleblower wrote:
“The only thing these filmmakers do in their documentary is ask questions. The scientist in their interviews have their credible opinions and you have yours.”
No, you need to re-watch that video. Just opinions?
Do these sound like opinions?
“We are being dumbed down, we are being made sicker, and we are being made infertile.”
“Here for the first time we have this scientific proof that we are being sprayed.”
“There’s no speculation in the area that we’re going into.
They definitely are doing this geoengineering.”
“And we’re all in a hostage crisis.”
“As human beings we need to decide whether to live on our knees while being sprayed and poisoned every day under continual threat or whether we are going to stand up and live as free human beings and seek truth, justice, peace and freedom for all of God’s children.”
No, these are not just people stating opinions. The makers of that movie, Michael J. Murphy and G. Edward Griffin, have both stated that their movie demonstrates a ” A CRIME AGAINST NATURE AND CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY”, terms associated with mass murder, extermination and genocide.
Those are not subjects for opinions.
checkerboards in the dead heat of summer?
Read some and learn some.
Recent posting on WITWATS facebook page.
Starts off with Ernie asking about the contents of a statement allegedly made by Francis Mangels.
”
Ernie Lee
How do you explain
Strange to say that the only graduate scientist in “what in the World” now admits that the soil and sediment samples taken contain NORMAL amount of naturally occurring aluminum !
ALUMINUM in POND RESIDUE and SOIL. Francis Mangels ADMITS HE WAS WRONG !!.
16 hours ago ·
Rebikya Harp Please tell us where you found this info. Thanks!
12 hours ago.
Ernie Lee Sorry, I am not use to Facebook yet.www.geoengineeringwatch.org/htm/tests.html Hidden there is An overview, or “what we know” document written by biologist Frances Mangels
11 hours ago.
Ernie Lee Hidden in the above was “Outside soils in Mt. Shasta area now have over 1.6 % or 16,000 mg/kg of aluminum. Soil is 13000 mg/kg in aluminum under my house, likely natural.”Really there is no significant different between covered under house sample measured as 1.3% compared to open air sample of 1.6%. This means all these samples just contained soils or dust containing NATURAL AMOUNT of aluminum.
11 hours ago.
Ross Marsden Brilliant find, Ernie Lee! That realisation of Mangels pretty much debunks the whole idea of testing soils for aluminium to somehow “prove” that it is being sprayed by planes. It debunks “What in the World Are They Spraying?” doesn’t it?
10 hours ago.
Ernie Lee Ross. It just puts a nail in the coffin. I realized when the video first came out it was a fraudulent attempt to defraud people. If a shock jock like Alex Jones has anything to do with it, it must be very suspect ! All of my research is in YouTube under http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4C032D13B3434FD2&feature=view_all
..
Expand preview
10 hours ago.
ImproviKation Boot Yes they are finding large amounts of aluminium and barium in soil in USA and also in the water. Plants and fish are dying.
3 hours ago.
What in the World Are They Spraying? Ernie,ou have made some very strong remarks aout an issue that is effecting us all. Have you contacted Francis for clarification?
2 hours ago.”
.
And another post on Facebook seems to show that there are divisions in the WITWATS team
“What in the World Are They Spraying?
For the record, Truth Media Productions and Michael J. Murphy are not at all supportive of statements made by some members involved in the filming of “What in the World are They Spraying?” who are claiming that chemtrail/geoengineering programs are not part of weather control. While we believe that there are many agendas behind these damaging programs, based on the abundance of evidence, weather control is a major factor as discussed in “Why in the World are They Spraying?” Let us not be supportive of deceptive propoganda that can create confusion and division in the movement.”
http://www.facebook.com/#!/WhatintheWorldAreTheySpraying
I’ve run into people who believe in the “chemtrail” concept. I never really paid them much mind. They really aren’t doing me any harm, so who cares? What’s really odd to me is the militant trolling from both sides. You run to their sites and post flamebaiting ad hom attacks, then come back trumpeting how they will soon be showing up. And, of course, they do. Doesn’t really sound like one side has any moral superiority, regardless of who is most “correct” on the topic. It reminds me very much of both sides of the autism-vaccine issue.
If this site were just about putting out the scientific evidence about this issue, it’d be awesome. It’s the nasty, self-righteous crap in the comment threads that make it all seem so petty. I think the idea that anything is being “sprayed” is 99.9% nonsense. However, I’m not stupid enough to think the government hasn’t been and doesn’t continue to be involved in shady dealings (call them “conspiracies,” if you like). I’m old enough to remember Agent Orange. I’m enough of a history buff to have read about the syphilis experimentation on African-American airmen. I’m enough of a feminist to know about the history of eugenics and forced sterilizations. It doesn’t make a person crazy to believe that the government, medical establishment, and chemical companies are capable of some pretty nasty things. In fact, it’s no more logical to believe that could never happen than it is to believe everything is a conspiracy. Unfortunately, several of the most prolific posters on this site seem to delight in ridiculing anyone who doesn’t have blind faith in the U.S. Government.
KD, I do have some sympathy with what you are saying. Any kind of insult, either perceived or intended, is generally counterproductive. See my “politeness policy”
https://contrailscience.com/politeness-policy/
I have to tread a line between enforcing politeness and censorship..
I would hope though that you are able to separate any of the ad hom style comments from the actual science here.
@Marcel: Those posts seem to have been removed now. They didn’t have much chance at getting through anyway, judging from the reaction to Ross Marsdens NASA link. Obviously, NASA is in on it.
Too bad.
Just found out that Ross has been banned, Probably Ernie Lee as well. All mine disappeared when I was banned from WITWATS about a month ago.
However, they live on in history, up above.
KD-
I can only speak for myself…but I am confident others feel the same- especially since some of the “regulars” are not even from the US….
…but “blind faith” in the US government has nothing to do with it.
Its about evidence and facts versus speculation and ignorance- ( I mean that only as a term for lack of knowledge- not as in insult)
I don’t think I posted a link to NASA.
The page asked me, based on my comments, if I was supportive of spraying “10 to 20 million tons of toxic aluminium”. (of course not!) I asked him to produce the phrase that led him to that conclusion.
He didn’t.
I challenged MJM by name to find a meteorologist to straighten him and G Edward out about contrail formation and what happened after that (with the contrails).
I told him he was scaring people.
A few hours later I was banned and any post/thread deleted… like I was never there.
He he – another notch. But he knows. He will forget my name (again), and we will meet again. I will be banned again.
This is a bit of what KD was talking about. However, I am direct, not rude, and I don’t do ad hom. I am reporting here important conversation that has now vanished. Neither site is degraded by my contribution.
For more debunking read here this is very helpful
http://www.google.com/patents/about/5003186_Stratospheric_Welsbach_seeding_f.html?id=MJUjAAAAEBAJ
and
http://www.cfr.org/content/thinktank/GeoEng_041209.pdf
Lots of good stuff here too
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/geoengineering/ODWZSYqw550
voice of seven, your links simply show that people have been thinking about SRM geoengineering for a long time.
Where is the evidence that they are actually doing it?
I think VoS is on the side of reason, suggesting that the information in these links underscores the fact that ideas of geoengineering have been thoroughly scientifically discussed and explored, albeit only theoretically.
You make it out here like Monsanto and other GMO companies are doing us all a favor. Do you like eating Round-up Ready soy and genetically modified food that the farmers have to buy new seeds for every time they start a new crop. Don’t tell me they are above trying to modify the soil!
Hey KD, did you see the video on GMO stuff where there used to be a tv ad in the 60’s that said DDT is good for me! showing people being drenched in that crap? Can’t ever believe anything is good for us, can we?
The farmers that buy gmo seeds do so willingly. They do this because those seeds offer benefit which makes them a good investment. There are plenty of non-GMO seeds they could buy, but for over 90% of some crops, famers find that GMO seeds are valuable enough to buy the seed every year.
Many organic farmers also buy non-GMO and even heirloom seeds every year as well, so there is nothing unusual in not saving seeds. If you grow two varieties of many crops, it is very difficult to prevent cross pollination and so farmers can only rely on seeds which have been grown in isolation by specialized seed growers so that the farmer can be assured true-varietal seed which will produce exactly what he wants.
For example, the seedless watermelon, which is not a GMO crop, must be specially grown, and fresh seed bought every year. It is beyond the capabilities of the majority of farmers to produce pure-bred seeds for many crops such as carrots, because wild carrot varieties will pollinate your seed crop, turning the carrot seeds you produce into bitter wild half-breeds. In many cases, farmers simply cannot take the chance by planting home-grown seeds and waiting until the crop matures to find out his seed was worthless, so he buys seed he can be confident will produce what he wants for his great effort.
I believe farmers should have the freedom to buy whatever seeds they want, it doesn’t seem right to me to force them to buy non-GMO seed if they don’t want to. The anti-GMO folks however, seem to be saying farmers are being forced to buy seed they don’t want, but that is simply not true.
I had never thought about that obvious cross pollination angle; if you want to ensure a consistently pure, high quality crop, GMO and pure strain seeds are essential.
MatrimCauthon says:
September 18, 2011 at 4:10 pm
clearly…Uncinus=gov disinfo agent.
Lol. Uncinus, as I said in another blog of yours, in response to your statement of distrust towards the information provided by a scientific article in which you claimed that the author may not be credible because he could be making stuff up:
Maybe we can’t trust YOU either
I try to ensure that everything I say is independently verifiable. Let me know if not.
Bo – maybe he is making stuff up – and since you say he is “clearly” a disinfo agent you should be able to point out what it is…right??
Bo: I have addressed your cite and Uncinus’ claim about William Thomas:
https://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/comment-page-5/#comment-108459
For further evaluation of William Thomas, check his website, where he makes the ridiculous assertion that contrails only form below -76 degrees F!
see:
http://www.willthomas.net/Chemtrails/Articles/Concerned_over_Chemtrails.htm
Even his fellow chemtrail believers were dismayed that he would make such an error, and have tried to get him to correct it:
see:
http://www.carnicom.com/skousen1.htm
Yet, a DECADE later, William Thomas has never made the correction.
So, is it starting to occur to you that some of these people promoting chemtrails may not actually be credible? Again, cite to Uncinus anything you find that’snot independently verifiable, and he will either verify it or change it, guaranteed.
Not that Carnicom is a reliable source either. He’s fond of using dubious math and science to do things like prove clouds cant exist.
You state that aluminum is the most abundant element of the Earth’s crust, and then in your first comment you quote a source claiming that it is the third most abundant. Clarity?
“Aluminum is the most abundant metallic element”
Oxygen and silicon are more abundant. But they are not metallic.
Which lunatic would spray sludge into our atmosphere? And why? And in these humongous amounts?
To test that it could block sun energy to screw up climate change even more?
You call this “explained”?
Are you trying to set a record in Bullshitting the public?
What crap!
Dr. Hans J. Kugler, PhD, President, prof. of chemistry (ret.)
International Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine http://www.antiagingforme.com
HK Stem Cell Research. http://www.antiagingforme.com/html/stemcells.html
There is no evidence that any such spraying is taking place.
If I’ve missed some, of if there’s a mistake in the above explanation, then please let me know and I’ll correct it.
No evidence that this is happening? Get real!
Even the history channel confirms it!
Recorded conversations with tanker pilots! – – I am a pilot – still flying – former W-German Air Force. I can tell regular trails from this.
Spectra showing certain sunlight frequency absorptions!
Just Google “High altitude aluminum spraying from air tankers” and you’ll get up-dated data.
Dr Kugler, the History Channel did a show on the chemtrail theory, but they found no evidence of spraying.
If you look though this site you’ll see I’ve addressed most of the evidence put forward.
Please be specific with what you think the evidence is, and provide a link.
Dr. Kugler,
with your impressive resumé in mind, can you tell us convincingly how you you distinguish regular trails from “chemtrails”?
Nobody else was able to explain that yet.
There always will be a group of people who will not believe that the govt. would launch such a wide spread operation in secret. All one has to do is look at history to see that similar aerosol operations has happened in the past, although not to this degree. Go to google street view, place your golden man anywhere on the south shore road on Edisto Island S.C. Next click the “up” side of the directional ring twice to have a skyward view, then rotate either right or left to see the whole sky. The day the google contractor was photographing that area was a heavy spray day operation. You can see chemtrail skies in many locations across the U.S with this method.
I know, as tens of thousands do that this operation is happening. The official debunking reason for the skies looking like this is “more air passenger service than a decade ago”. We have been keeping track. We look through the flight schedules. We notice that mysteriosly the same day of the week you won’t see but one or two aircraft all day. When we call the regional airports, the tower will actually tell us the “aerosol operation is underway today” and they “can’t idendtify the aircraft”.
The late Ted Gunderson had investigatory resources at his command much more so than the average citizen because he was the FBI bureau chief of L.A. and two other agencies. He found through his investigations (as have thousands of others) that this assault on life itself is indeed happening.
All anyone has to do is get their blood tested as I have, then ask yourself why is it 20 times higher in aluminum that it was 15 years. Why is the atmosphere 30 times higher? Look at the diligent lab work of Clifford Carnicom, a most dedicated researcher and veteran govt. employee.
A person can try to plug the hole in the dam holding back the truth, but as history always shows us truth will will keep chipping away at the dam…and big chunks of it will eventually crumble away the obstruction, leaving the nay-sayers looking like fools, idiots and liers. What side of history will you be on? Choose truth or deception.
Two lines say it at all in a song by Jefferson Airplane called Crown of Creation. At 1:17 into the song the lyrics are “In loyalty to their kind, they can not tolerate our minds
In loyalty to our kind, we can not tolerate their obstruction”
Also many whistle blowers are already on record…..with proof, i.e the doctor at Wright-Patterson AFB that was taking care of the pilots doing this operation. Just do your research people. Someone has gone to a lot of trouble to spin this fake information which I can polk holes in left and right and deflate it like the big sack of hot air it is. I get tired of people lying and other people following like sheep…..it’s no wonder why we call them “sheeple”.
If humanity doesn’t survive, it will largly be due to the sheeple who can’t recogize truth…..support the lies and deception….believe that tyranny just couldn’t happen here….etc….etc…..WAKE UP!!!!!!
JC, if you think there is information on this site that is incorrect, then please point it out, and I’ll correct it.
Also, do you have any evidence that the atmosphere is 30 times higher in aluminum? Can you link to this evidence?
“the doctor at Wright-Patterson AFB that was taking care of the pilots doing this operation”
You are referring to “Dr” William Deagle, a man who claims that space aliens offered him to be ruler of the galaxy and that the Govt uses genetically engineered, cyborg attack baboons in nano armour as guards in underground cities. Perhaps it might be advisable to heed your own advice and ” Just do your research people”.
Try to research claims a little deeper and don’t accept claims at face value.
You suggest that an individual claiming to be a whistle blower is “proof”.
It might be a good idea to fact check rather than just accept a verbal claim made at a paid public speaking engagement in front of new agers as “proof”.
Any person can SAY something but you need to examine any evidence that it is true.
Since Deagle claimed to be a “chemtrail doctor” at wright patterson and also claimed to be offered the role king of the galaxy, then perhaps you might want to explore the credibility of his messages further.
If Bradley Manning is in custody accused of revealing low level secrets, why is Bill Deagle still running a public talk show if he is publicly spilling the beans about “above top secret” issues?
I am concerned about the high concentration of Aluminum found in the snow, a test was done recently that found 59,000 per billion. This is not normal, although I’d like to stick my head in the sand and carry on with life like you guys, I want to get to the bottom of it.
“I believe farmers should have the freedom to buy whatever seeds they want, it doesn’t seem right to me to force them to buy non-GMO seed if they don’t want to. The anti-GMO folks however, seem to be saying farmers are being forced to buy seed they don’t want, but that is simply not true.”
Economically that is actually happening. Again, stop sticking your head in the sand.
Did you read the article here? They tested dirty snow in summer. So the levels of aluminum were exactly what you would expect.
http://metabunk.org/threads/137-Shasta-Snow-and-Water-Aluminum-Tests
So your theory is that this is a conspiracy to make people believe someone is spraying the atmosphere with toxic chemicals?
Mostly is just a mistake rather than a conspiracy. People predisposed to this kind of thing bought into the theory, and have just applied some very bad science to justify their beliefs.
I don’t think there’s any grand conspiracy. But there is some deliberate ignoring of the science, like the above snow sample for example. Michael J. Murphy will never talk about it.
Mangels is scheduled to show the film in Mt. Shasta on March 3. I may attend, to argue with him, but will probably be shouted down. If there are any other voices of science and reason from this area, it might be interesting to go to this showing.
Hey Steve, if you do go, make sure you check out the various threads on Metabunk
http://metabunk.org/threads/154-The-Claims-of-Francis-Mangels-a-Factual-Examination
http://metabunk.org/threads/249-A-Conversation-With-Dr-Lenny-Thyme-from-quot-What-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-quot
http://metabunk.org/threads/135-Chemical-Composition-of-rain-and-snow
http://metabunk.org/threads/137-Shasta-Snow-and-Water-Aluminum-Tests
(and more)
steve, if you are in the area, please email me. [email protected]
Theres a sequel to What in the World are they Spraying….on it’s way!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3__ssxTvNc
I discuss it a bit over on Metabunk:
http://metabunk.org/threads/300-Debunked-WHY-in-the-World-are-They-Spraying
I don’t know if anyone ever brought this up, but in this video segment from WITWATS, Dane Wigington is telling about how his lab sample from the pond on backbone road in 2007 tested 50,000 times higher than it was five years before. He says the water is “literally toxic”.
http://www.youtube.co/watch?v=pBgkrEMDA9o
He says all this with a straight face as the camera pans over the pond with perfectly healthy Koi fish swimming along five years later.
Unbelieveable, if you think about it!
Last time I wrote anything on a board about chemtrails I had some demented old bat calling himself a pilot taking everything I said out of its context to further befuddle everyone.
10 years ago … in 2002 … while sitting on a restaurant patio in downtown Toronto I watched a “contrail” fall out of the sky and bathe square kilometers of Toronto in itself. It was at that point I started having an interest in “chemtrails” as I got sprayed by something. As I have not heard any evidence that “contrails” can fall out of the sky and carpet the ground below I have to assume this was not a “contrail”.
With that aside, whether or not there are such things as “chemtrails”, it is clear to me that the increased air traffic the modern, mobile village demands to survive is creating a new form of pollution that should not be tollerated. Please continue to tell us all about the effects of modern air flight in all their minutia … please add further facts about the environmental effects of increased “contrail” grids and blankets. Please continue to show no concern about the effects of “contrails”.
Contrails don’t fall to the ground. So you probably saw a combination of things, like contrails, some clouds, and some low level fog rolling in.
It’s not that I have no concern. I have plenty of concern about anything that alters the climate. I just don’t think there’s a deliberate conspiracy going on to spray “chemtrails”.
The negative effects of contrails are another topic.
“10 years ago … in 2002 … while sitting on a restaurant patio in downtown Toronto I watched a “contrail” fall out of the sky and bathe square kilometers of Toronto in itself”
Sounds just like the normal Toronto fog with high cirrus visible all the way to the horizon.
Often people seem to be of the impression that if a cloud looks near the horizon it must be low in altitude and dropping in height.
Some reading about perspective might be in order
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxeS9TLm-_o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPz7ghRiid0
Have a look at the Unseen Sea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4-zUlEAQpM
Chemtrailers are a funny bunch, but regardless of how much valid, sensible information you provide them with they will continue to believe in myths. I think the conspiracy of chemtrails is the conspiracy itself. I find many people who have “awakened” get caught up in chemtrails, probably due to a lack of understanding of aviation and meteorology and distrust in their governments.
I have a friend who turned me on to chemtrails (as I have always been into conspiracies) and at one point seemed convinced as I too lacked an understanding, but only thought of the geo engineering. I always thought the depopulation/weather manupulating/poisoning our food supply total bullshit from the get go though. But then I got away from the chemtrail sites and started coming to sites like this, and spoke with a few freinds who are pilots.
Once I looked into both sides of the issue I came to the conclusion that chemtrails are bullshit. I provided my friend with all types of really good info, directed him to this site and even offered to have my pilot friends talk to him and help answer any questions he had. The result? My freinds were called shills, part of the conspiracy, claimed contrailscience.com was operated by shills and he was blocked, AND then blocked me, and anyone else on facebook who offered credible evidence, and told another friend (who’s father and grandfather were both pilots) that her family are liars. His proof? He sees them spray every day and post you tube videos. He devotes so much time and even makes anti chemtrail shirts. I feel kinda bad for him but laugh every time the conditions are right for contrails, because he get so mad and rants for hours. I see guys like him all the time on the internet and think what a waste. Why not devote youself to educating people about real issues, like GMO foods, dependance on oil, the federal reserve and so on.
Some of these people just can’t/won’t admit they are (or even could be) wrong even if they know they are.
Just imagine all the crow Michael J Murphy would have to eat if he were to realize he has been wrong all this time.
It’s best just to continue on and let others believe you’re crazy instead of admitting you had been deluded/suckered/hoodwinked.
I love it. Jet fuel melts steel and collapses buildings, Oaklahoma City was fertilizer, JFK assassination was done by one lone gunman, on and on and on…….people cannot use their brains to save their lives. You can spin all the science into this that you want. But here’s a little something anyone can do. While you’re sitting around watching TV or movies, stop and notice the sky in the back ground. You will start to notice the chemtrails in the sky. Now, watch some older movies from the 70’s and 60’s. Notice chemtrails in the sky now? I guess airplanes just started flying and leaving all this ice saturation in the last 10 years huh?
“I guess airplanes just started flying and leaving all this ice saturation in the last 10 years huh?”
No, persistent contrails have been around as long as planes have flow high enough:
https://contrailscience.com/contrail-photos-through-history/
lots of contrails in old movies and TV shows…of course, there were far fewer planes back then but they are there if you look for them:
http://www.mckeewildthings.com/Contrails/Diamonds_are_Forever.jpg
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/7951/700756d18ecd.jpg
https://contrailscience.com/skitch/Great_BLOOPER_from_DANIEL_BOONE_with_Fess_Parker_and_Jimmy_Dean_-_YouTube-20120121-210750.jpg
open your minds, people. for goodness sake! Its for the good of humanity to be aware of this stuff going on, it saddens me greatly how disconnected we are with each other.
We are ALL connected by a collective consciousness, and we should be working together to create a global awareness about this HUGE issue. Unfortunately, there is far too much money Involved along with unimaginable amounts of power by those ‘in charge’ and behind what is ACTUALLY happening to us, and the earth. Do I sound like ‘hippy ? GOOD. We need more of them.
Ice trails? Water vapor? If the conditions are right? What if they are not right?
WHAT IF you see 10 lines across the sky in different directions, what is the point of this, please, tell me!
I firmly believe that the government along with the big pharmaceutical companies are behind what is going on. if there is a plan to decrease the population by 4 BILLION by 2050, how would this be possible, other than by a MASS EXTERMINATION? And what a better way to do this, than by air.
And, if you can control the weather, which is clearly a huge issue here, you can control food production, you can control pretty much anything. The world, its people.
This is the combined governments soul purpose, it always has been, well, its just getting worse.
Shame on you! This is something we are NOT SUPPOSED to know about, stop fighting the TRUTH and open your mind and your state of awareness. please.