Home » Uncategorized » Contrail photos through history

Contrail photos through history

I’ve collected together a few photos of persistent spreading contrails from the past from 1991 back to 1940, just to show that this is nothing new, and that skies exactly like those shown on the “chemtrails” conspiracy web sites have been happening for the past 60 years. Mostly these are just photos I found on the internet, but several, like the first four, are scanned from books, so can be physically verified.

1991, From the book Peterson First guide to Clouds and Weather

Here are four photos of contrails, scanned from the book. You can see these photos on the Amazon page linked above. Click on the photos for larger versions. I suspect the actual date of these photos is pre-1991, but that’s certainly the latest possible date.



1984, Rustler Peak, Oregon
Old and new spreading contrails. Then, as now, Oregon has a lot of North/South flyover traffic going between California and Portland/Seattle/Vancouver.

The above photo is from a collection of photos of forest lookouts in Oregon. Most of which were taken in the last few years, but a few like the above, back to 1984. It’s interesting to see just how few of them contain contrails, and just how many contain clear blue skies, regardless of which year they were taken in.

Here’s some from 1990, taken by a tourist in Washington DC:

Capitol Dome, 1990

New York, 1994,

New York, July 1, 1992

Persisting and Spreading Contrail. Mt Hood, Oregon, October 1964, Ed’s JG Photos

Mt Hood, July 15th, 1985, Rob DeGraff

Mt Shasta, 1989, Taylor Sherman

1995, Mirror Lake, Oregon

1991, Oregon, Coos Bay, Jonathan Harel

1985. Tahoe

1986. Mt Whitney, California

Arizona, September 1988

Mount Adams, September 1987.

North Vancouver, 1989

Paris, March 31, 1983, OliBac

Oregon, 1990, mdintenfass

1986, March 8. London, England.

1989, May. Echo_29, Nigh time contrails cas shadows on the clouds.

1988, Prague

pre-1981 – Plates 173 and 174 from “A Field guide to the Atmosphere“, by Schaefer and Day



1977 Michigan – a single persistent contrail cuts the sky, through some rippled clouds. Found on a chemtrail forum.

1972, From the book Clouds of the World, by Richard Scorer


1970 – Photo of a stop sign with a persistent and spreading contrail. I found this photo on a forum somewhere. I’m not sure of the source or accuracy of the date.

1967 – Plate 113 from Cloud Studies in Colour, Richard Scorer and Harry Wexler.  Shows over 30 contrails, some criss-crossing:


1963 – Photo by Bob Shomler

1958, San Francisco airport: Two persistent contrails cross in the sky.

1954, A photo by Ansel Adams entitled “Rails and Jet Trails

1945, Europe: Contrails from fighter escorts (P-51s). Both old and new. You see lots of these types of photos when people try to debunk chemtrails, the believers say that engines back then were less efficient, so produced more trails. Ironically, the more efficient an engine is, the more of the fuel is combusted, so more water is produced. So the more modern an engine is, the more likely it is to produce a persistent contrail.

1944, Contrails formed over Germany by the 91st Bomb Group on a mission to Zeitz, Germany on 30 November 1944

1940, Europe, Bomber with fighter escorts

The 1940s, From the 1950 book Air Force: A Pictorial History


For more WWII contrails, see here:

WWII Contrails



441 thoughts on “Contrail photos through history

  1. Anonymous says:

    I think I need a cigarette…

  2. JazzRoc says:


    PLEASE name a SINGLE person who has been “sickened” by “chemtrails”.

    Me, Faith. me. I’m sick of the sock-puppets here, with their constant droning on about “using their eyes and brain”. If only they could.

    “another respiratory victim”, for instance, who must have looked up “respiratory” in order to spell it correctly (for they never normally do), with:

    public servants making blog comments to make false contradictions and putting out disinformation” when it is chemtrailers ignoring established science and manufacturing their own “information”, the psychopaths within their ranks producing outright forgeries. These aren’t even frowned upon, but welcomed as dubious evidence!

    Wiki has an article about constant distortions and changes coming from various government office IP addresses.
    It also has articles on “chemtrails” – a hoax, and the pathological process whereby people fixate and cling to false ideas, and full up-to-date details on the atmosphere and contrails and the properties of both. Full additional references are given which lay to rest the false claim (one of many) that WIKI is itself false.

    If the FTC enforced mandatory disclosure for EVERYONE who was being paid to put out false information, things would be different.
    That would be the end of “orgone” “technology”, right there. And colloidal silver and the rest of the tragic mess.

    Fortunately, while God provided warnings “MY PEOPLE ARE DESTROYED FOR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE” he also gave most people two eyes and a conscious mind to know what is happening to them.
    “I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.” said by Galileo Galilei.
    You’ll notice that “two eyes and a conscious mind” were not on his agenda, but instead “sense, reason, and intellect”.

    The white planes spreading the crap, fly lower and much faster than regular jets” – is a lie borne of ignorance. Planes at cruise are HIGH and just SUBSONIC. Were they to fly lower and FASTER they would risk disintegration.

    fly in tandem with others.” – is another lie borne of ignorance. It is covered at this site. Try a little peripheral reading.

    Occasionally a black line can be seen” – These are known as SHADOWS to sensible reasonable intellectuals.

    Some days are trail free with actually sunny blue skies and people start breathing better but then they go right back at it the next day.” – You know this? State your figures.

    There have been too many people severely sickened by this for the truth to come out voluntarily.” –
    You know this? State your figures.

    Check out the mortality rate increase over the last few years from respiratory distress.” –
    You know this? State your figures.

  3. Scott says:

    I can’t help but think as I read about everyone’s concerns on chemtrails: yes these things are dangerous, but it’s because what you’re seeing is direct evidence to the huge amounts of pollution being put out by jet aircraft. Not only is the exhaust itself terrible for the environment, but the contrails trap heat and contribute further to global warming. So I for one am a lot more alarmed about how we can stop the ever-increasing amount of jet aircraft traffic that we KNOW is destroying the planet, than I am by the idea that the government MIGHT be experimenting in isolated cases in a classified manner.

    Just my two cents. But I imagine there are just as many people who don’t believe the science supporting climate change, as there are who don’t believe all of the studies that have concluded no conspiracy exists around contrails being chemtrails.

    And further, if we want to worry about airplanes spraying crap that makes us sick, why don’t we start with all the planes that we KNOW spray insecticides on farmland?

  4. captfitch says:


    I whole-heartedly agree that jets are responsible for pollution but a little research will show that per mile air travel is substantially less detrimental to the environment than car travel.

    You can not stop the increase in the number of seat miles being flown but you can take steps to lower the number of planes flying those miles which would ultimately decrease the amount of emissions per seat mile. Please spend some time investigating the various benefits of increasing the size of jets but you’ll need to balance the effects on the airlines and overall quality of commercial aviation. It’s much more complicated than I have time to discuss in any amount of detail.

    Same with aerial spraying- look into the benefits of aerial apllication before you bemoan it so quickly.

  5. ananoaonoanonanonannn says:

    hey there form the uk..

    after many days, weeks, months perhaps, becoming more and more aware of this suposed phenomenon, i have or late become slightly persessed by the idea… and have in all ernest driven myself a little bit mad..
    Its actualy quite comforting to read something so calm and rational on the subject, that seems tyo be driven by science and questioning, rather than trying to convince me of somehting with frantic (and somewhat paranoid) preachyness..

    I can honestly say, I am the last person to just accept the norm, accept what governments tell me, and i do liek to question everything… I carry a certain amount of anti-authoritarian baggage, as it were, and I when I am bombarded by negativity, especialy the kind where wrong-doing apears to have been done by the powers that be, I am indeed very prone to reacting..

    By reacting I mean getting into a downward spiral of thinking, repetative thoughts that are probably fed by emaotions and bla blarr opinions, distrust of all political agendas, and social structures… (well there are many good ones too..!)

    But my point is, its good to read something that at the very least seems to create some mental space so that a real interpretation, based on evidnce, can begin to re-establish itself..
    For it is so easy, so very tempting to get lost and lost and forever burry your head in thinking, which, when of this nature creates nothing but paranoia and missery for yourself. I think it has alot to do with identity here, psycologicaly speaking. When people feel they are being done wrong, the ego feels the need to make itself right, to survive on the idea of separation (us and them syndrome if you like)
    But when this sort of mind structure takes control of you, you become powerless, constantly searching (and RE-SEARCHING…so much researching..!) that you loose yourself in thought….

    Ironicaly, then, that when someone becomes so deeply imersed in these kind of thoughts, that they seem to echo the very structures of the blindly consuming, ultimately self destroying society that they claim to be against..

    How do you see the Chemtrail idea as a psycological affect? ~I am currious.
    I still have my doubts about what certain organisations do and dont do, and wether they tell us about it or not, but i feel that to get lost in the theories, the speculation, only blinds us further, and pushes us into harmful self perpetuating negativity. And thats ceratinly not good for the world!

    (please excuse any typos)

    p.s- nice photos!

  6. Matt S. says:

    One minute into this video, meteorologist Kevin Lollis of channel 10 in Oregon shows chem-trails appearing on radar. He then goes on to say that they are military planes dropping “chaff” – small bits of aluminum and other materials. Though he says they will not confirm this, he states he knows it to be true from his experience the marine corps.


    He states it’s a radar exercise, but why would that need to stretch across two states? Radar exercise or not, it’s still metal being dropped into the sky.


  7. Why would they stop at the state line? Yes, it’s chaff, they drop it sometime for practice. What’s the big deal?

  8. JazzRoc says:


    Why would they stop at the state line?” – It’s INTELLIGENT, remember. It’s made of “nannites”. Floating down from a release, and noting they are about to cross a state border they migrate to the nearest border town for pick-up (at midnight with matt black trucks and personnel) and re-use.

    Yes, it’s chaff, they drop it sometime for practice. – these days the nannite chaff books itself in for practice. After all, its mission brief is to find all the human beings there are near the drop and give them Alzheimer’s. (These days this rule has been amended to select by ethnicity and idiocy so we’d all better watch out if we ain’t waspish and smart!)

    What’s the big deal?” – Well it’s a big deal for the chaff. After a century tied to Christmas trees it’s out in the open at last. It’s unionizing. RED chaff…. (Isn’t there a song about it?)

  9. uncommonsense says:

    Why do debunkers use math and science to make their points, while conspiracy theorists use insults?

  10. That video shows skywriting.

  11. TimeForBed says:

    Ah, some misunderstanding here it seems


    **I see now how that has been cleverly achieved to hide the current bout of secret testing in plain sight, as they say. Very clever these secret government types, I guess there may be some page on wikipedia that explains it all in a bit more detail in about 50 to 75 years or so. Maybe an article tucked innocuously into the middle pages of the Guardian.
    *Maybe hundreds of scientific research papers that have quantified it, explained it, and made predictions about it over half a century.

    – Ah, now, I see why you have misunderstood me here, you seem to have accidentally removed the start of my statement, I’ll just reproduce it here for you, ahem

    **Yes, interesting, so “chemtrails” look and behave exactly like contrails.

    – Ok, now it becomes clear, so your assertion that there are

    *Maybe hundreds of scientific research papers that have quantified it, explained it, and made predictions about it over half a century.

    – Is now missing the point by referring as it does to an “it” that I can see equates in your mind to contrails, whereas my statement referred to a secret plan to disguise chemtrails as contrails, you see, for which there exist no scientific research papers at all. Don’t try looking for them to prove your point either because by definition, of course, they wouldn’t be allowed in the public domain.

    **Can’t wait to read it.
    *That’s strange, for you have read and understood none of it so far. What’s new?

    – Ah! Another misunderstanding that may now be clear from my explanation above. There is no scientific research to read and understand on this proposed secret plan. If there was, it would of course be suppressed.

    **Until then, don’t talk about the weather!
    *No, please talk about it. How much do you know about it?

    – This, you see, is just a little ironic joke referring to the well known chemtrail film of the same name. Ha! Yes I don’t actually want to “talk about the weather”… so don’t fret.

    **oh yes, I wonder if secret government undercover agents look and behave exactly like ordinary citizens…
    *That’s exactly what I wonder about paranoid chemtrailers…

    – That’s a rather odd thing to wonder, as a paranoid chemttrailer is an ordinary citizen… unless you are suggesting that a paranoid chemtrailer could be a kind of “double agent” actually working for the secret government to disrupt the chemtrail movement… yes, interesting, I can see how your mind is working here, I’m impressed. Sounds like you know quite a bit about this sort of thing?

    Anyway, hope that’s cleared it up for you, have fun!

  12. JazzRoc says:


    Ah, some misunderstanding here it seems

    On your part, total. On mine, not at all.

    THE DRAGON IN MY GARAGE – by Carl Sagan: “A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage”

    Suppose I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you’d want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!
    “Show me,” you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle — but no dragon.
    “Where’s the dragon?” you ask.
    “Oh, she’s right here,” I reply, waving vaguely. “I neglected to mention that she’s an invisible dragon.”
    You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon’s footprints.
    “Good idea,” I say, “but this dragon floats in the air.”
    Then you’ll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.
    “Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless.”
    You’ll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.
    “Good idea, but she’s an incorporeal dragon and the paint won’t stick.” And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won’t work.
    Now, what’s the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there’s no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists?
    Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder.
    What I’m asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.
    The only thing you’ve really learned from my insistence that there’s a dragon in my garage is that something funny is going on inside my head.
    You’d wonder, if no physical tests apply, what convinced me. The possibility that it was a dream or a hallucination would certainly enter your mind. But then, why am I taking it so seriously? Maybe I need help. At the least, maybe I’ve seriously underestimated human fallibility.
    Imagine that, despite none of the tests being successful, you wish to be scrupulously open-minded. So you don’t outright reject the notion that there’s a fire-breathing dragon in my garage. You merely put it on hold. Present evidence is strongly against it, but if a new body of data emerge you’re prepared to examine it and see if it convinces you. Surely it’s unfair of me to be offended at not being believed; or to criticize you for being stodgy and unimaginative — merely because you rendered the Scottish verdict of “not proven.”
    Imagine that things had gone otherwise. The dragon is invisible, all right, but footprints are being made in the flour as you watch. Your infrared detector reads off-scale. The spray paint reveals a jagged crest bobbing in the air before you. No matter how skeptical you might have been about the existence of dragons — to say nothing about invisible ones — you must now acknowledge that there’s something here, and that in a preliminary way it’s consistent with an invisible, fire-breathing dragon.
    Now another scenario: Suppose it’s not just me. Suppose that several people of your acquaintance, including people who you’re pretty sure don’t know each other, all tell you that they have dragons in their garages — but in every case the evidence is maddeningly elusive. All of us admit we’re disturbed at being gripped by so odd a conviction so ill-supported by the physical evidence. None of us is a lunatic. We speculate about what it would mean if invisible dragons were really hiding out in garages all over the world, with us humans just catching on. I’d rather it not be true, I tell you. But maybe all those ancient European and Chinese myths about dragons weren’t myths at all.
    Gratifyingly, some dragon-size footprints in the flour are now reported. But they’re never made when a skeptic is looking. An alternative explanation presents itself. On close examination it seems clear that the footprints could have been faked. Another dragon enthusiast shows up with a burnt finger and attributes it to a rare physical manifestation of the dragon’s fiery breath. But again, other possibilities exist. We understand that there are other ways to burn fingers besides the breath of invisible dragons. Such “evidence” — no matter how important the dragon advocates consider it — is far from compelling.
    Once again, the only sensible approach is tentatively to reject the dragon hypothesis, to be open to future physical data, and to wonder what the cause might be that so many apparently sane and sober people share the same strange delusion.

    This might jog your memory, unless you really don’t read much. (Thanks, Suntour.)

    Go find some evidence for your “invisible dragon”, and teach me a thing or two.

  13. sean walker says:

    spraying chemicals on the world not just here but anywhere there is a mass of people.people try and debunk them under the contrail story but science doesnt support there aligations. the airforce says not there’s goverment say’s the same. they have no flight plans listed and no markings on the plain not 1 number. now how is it that these planes havent been shot down if there not are’s then who ‘s are they .no flight plans filed with are airports no identifying call numbers on them. they could be enother 9-11 in the making. not hardly they would have scrambled fighter jets to intercept them allready. but they havent. so the goverment must know who’s they are and what there intensions are. only makes since.now we the people of the free world need to demand the stop and discloser of what we have been exposed to and hold the responsible parties behind it to be held accountable for there crimes against the free world

  14. JazzRoc says:

    Sean Walker:

    “spraying — SNIP — world”

    That’s better – but still wrong and thoroughly debunked.
    Find out about the technical nature of Air Traffic Control and how it deals with 87,000 daily overflights of the United States. Read its history. Find out how many employees it has.
    Then ask yourself why there aren’t ANY “whistleblowers”.
    There would HAVE to be, if “secret fleets” of unmarked planes were roaring around at low level they would eventually COLLIDE with VFR aircraft – private low-flying planes. There have been NO such crashes.
    Engines spray WATER to make trails – which turn to cirrus clouds, or evaporate, depending on the ambient humidity.
    Learn some physics.

  15. SR1419 says:


    can you explain why science doesn’t support the assertion that when water vapor is ejected into ambient temperatures well below zero it will freeze into ice crystals…and if it is humid enough the ice crystals will persist.

    What is the scientific rationale that says that is not possible?

  16. faithinscience says:

    I know for a fact that these people are completely oblivious about air saturation and the importance it plays in this puzzle. Well, it’s a puzzle to them…

  17. Madeleine says:

    “my statement referred to a secret plan to disguise chemtrails as contrails,”
    So…now…contrails are indistinguishable from chemtrails? Ah, me!
    Uncinus, Jazzroc, SR1419 et al – the optimal path for the future is clear: we must start developing protective devices against the “chemicals” “sprayed” by “the government”, because *someone* has to get rich off the back of all of this wilful ignorance, surely.

  18. Anya says:

    Anyone who believes the Military Industrial Complex is not capable of stuff like this is living in a fantasy world. Efficient killing is their business and business is booming. WAKE UP!

  19. JazzRoc says:


    the optimal path for the future is clear: we must start developing protective devices against the “chemicals” “sprayed” by “the government”, because *someone* has to get rich off the back of all of this wilful ignorance, surely.

    As the cost of living increases, this temptation surely increases.
    A “homeopathic” orgone approach would be the most profitable.
    Oh, WHY don’t I set up a sock-puppet account and clean up?
    Why don’t you?
    Possibly because we have to live with ourselves…

  20. Mr. Suntour says:

    JazzRoc, I was glad to see the “Dragon in my Garage” story could come in handy lol.

  21. TellTheTruth says:

    Do disinfo agents make their own websites?

  22. TellTheTruth says:

    I have a photo of myself on the moon in 1965.

  23. Mr. Suntour says:

    Quote by Madeleine – “because *someone* has to get rich off the back of all of this wilful ignorance, surely.”

    Absolutely, people ARE getting rich off willful ignorance. Look specifically at Alex Jones & Cliff Carnicom for proof!

  24. Mr. Suntour says:

    Quote by Anya – “Anyone who believes the Military Industrial Complex is not capable of stuff like this is living in a fantasy world. Efficient killing is their business and business is booming. WAKE UP!”

    Do you really believe that spraying stuff in the atmosphere thousands of feet above our heads is “efficient killing”? Do you have any idea how foolish that sounds? The idea of “chemtrails” are probably one of the most inefficient and inaccurate ways to go about killing/controlling (whatever you believe) a population of people anyone has ever thought of.

    The wind currents alone would carry “chemicals” hundreds of miles from where they were originally “sprayed”, not to mention how dispersed the “chemicals” would be by the time the actually reached the ground (if they actually existed).

  25. TheFactsMatter says:

    I wanted to see if a chemtrail believer was actually able to use logic and figure this all out…and I witnessed such an event. I was overjoyed! I thank all who reach out to these people and attempt to help them.

    Good luck with the rest of ’em!

  26. EnergySupply2008 says:

    TheFactsMatter closed his Youtube account, because nobody was buying his bullshit about CONtrails. Too funny.

  27. TheFactsMatter says:

    “TheFactsMatter closed his Youtube account, because nobody was buying his bullshit about CONtrails. Too funny.”

    Wrong, as usual…don’t you ever get tired of making stupid assumptions?! That’s how you fell for this silly hoax in the first place.

    I closed the account because I’m sick of wasting my time, repeating the same things over and over again in an effort to help unappreciative/ignorant people who threaten me with death because I’m a “traitor”. The sad part is that each one of you “people” are traitors, and you aren’t even aware of it.

    Apparently, you didn’t understand my position as a youtube member. I was never trying to change the minds of the (you) actual cult members…they (you) are already too far into the hoax! I was simply asking those on the fence (those who haven’t fallen for this ridiculous hoax and actually WANT to learn the truth) to take the time to learn facts from reliable sources instead of accepting bullshit AS fact. I was NEVER interested in discussing the subject with you or any of your “friends”. I was just there to ask others to understand that accepting youtube videos as “evidence” is, in a word, stupid.

    I also think youtube sucks.

    What’s’ “too funny” is that you will live the rest of your pathetic life “believing” you are being “sprayed” simply because you CHOOSE to believe it…and you choose to ignore the facts (or even learn them). I just LOVE how you people “believe” that watching youtube videos made by OTHER uneducated “people” negates the billions of man hours that have gone into studying/understanding the atmosphere. You literally have no idea how much you don’t know about this subject. THAT is funny!

    Honestly, I don’t expect you to understand. It’s beyond your comprehension.

  28. TheFactsMatter says:

    By the way ES08, why don’t you tell everyone here your aluminum “story”. It was quite entertaining. Tell us why you “believe” that aluminum found on the ground MUST HAVE come from the trails in the sky. Let’s see you explain THAT one! Remember, we are talking about science…so, no assumptions, please!

  29. Artyom says:

    WOW!!! Energy sure discredited him! HAAHAHAHA… closed Youtube account… that’s it he’s guilty… xD Congressional hearings brought forth by the “Chemtrail Movement”…. They are spraying, look I have my video, a rain water sample, and this man over their who denies it, closed his youtube account…. HAHAHAHAHHHAHAAA…… The one benefit of talking about this topic is the good laughs they bring.

  30. Mike says:

    Err…aluminium in the ground?…well where else would you expect it – the earth is about 8% aluminium – it is the 3rd most common element behind silicon and oxygen. The soil in the crust contains vast amounts of it in the form of feld spar.

    We spray it into our armpits as antipesperatn/deoderant……

  31. Janet Milton says:

    This guy has got to be kidding!! NOT ONE of these photos looks anything at all like the “contrails” I and MANY witnesses have seen in the last few years LINGERING ALL DAY long over the sky stretching from around Ventura, CA all the way down over the Los Angeles area. The “contrails” we have seen are in a very PRECISELY CONSTRUCTED GRID PATTERN that extends completely across the sky for as far as the eye can see. The sky is usually very clear, warm and sunny in the morning – but near the end of the day with the increasing amount of cloud-covering created by the lingering “contrails” the sky becomes extremely overcast and murky, and does a real good job of blocking out the sun. We also took note that for some odd reason these occurences seemed to take place over a scheduled time frame being on Sundays and Tuesdays. I’ve lived my whole life in CA and have only witnessed this phenomenan in the last several years. I really don’t know what it is. But I’d sure like to know.

  32. Faithinscience says:

    They are contrails.

    There, now you know.

  33. Janet, have another look at the grid (or post a photo). You’ll find that the majority of the planes go north-south, with only a few going east west. Basically the routes that you would expect from commuter traffic.

    It’s hard to find similar photos from decades ago, as there was simply not so much air traffic back then. But have a look at this photo from Mt Shasta:


    The lower left show several parallel trails. If a plane had happened to fly east-west at the time then you’d have a “grid”.

    And how do you mean “precisely constructed grid”, given the traffic patterns, how would you expect persistent contrails to look? Could you draw a diagram of what you would expect?

  34. Mr. Suntour says:


    It’s statements like the one above that make me believe that Chemtrailers are purposely being dense. If airplanes fly north to south and others fly east to west, how is it that their paths WONT cross? Please explain that to me.

  35. TheFactsMatter says:

    It’s funny, why would they need to “spray” grid patterns in the sky?! To evenly distribute the “spray” over an area? Then why don’t they use the “grid” technique everywhere if that is the way it’s supposed to be done? Why do I only see random “X patterns” in my area?! Does “X mark the spot”?!

    A few moments of rational and logical thought easily clears up the whole grid nonsense. The problem is, not everyone is capable. Especially those with perpetually suspicious minds.

  36. Eric says:

    There are sad people alive today who have been unable to find happiness in their lives. Unfortunately these people, instead of taking responsibility for their own happiness, have chosen to blame others for the lack of emotional fulfillment. Lacking any specific person or cause to blame, they shift to a vague, sinister entity who is out of reach such as a government, a religion, or a mysterious elite group. Surely, if someone is acting against them from afar and altering their lives, they have an excuse for their unhappiness. Since they lack the strength or wisdom to take responsibility for their happiness, they invent countless conspiracies in which some unknown force is acting covertly to control them.

    I feel for you guys, seriously. My advice would be to get a good hobby… try hiking, fishing, chess or tennis for starters. Meet some people. Have a nice dinner together with friends. Enjoy a bottle of wine. Take up flying and get a handle on weather like our friend here who is more qualified to discuss this than any of you lot. Maybe check out the thousands of starving people around the world who are just starving out in the open, no conspiracy needed. Perhaps you could devote some of this time and energy to a problem happening here on planet Earth?

  37. matt says:

    lol i would hope the planes flying us around travel in very precise grid like patters, otherwise there would be air traffic chaos… dont they follow precise gps coordintes? so the resulting contrails would create this pattern constantly observed, it is a good laugh tho

  38. Stupid says:

    It’s insidious that “spraying the public at 30 thousand feet” is any sort of effective “control” over us. Any sort of “control” would be much better regulated in another medium and method…..like our water sources…..or our sexual habit….read. Daniel Quinn.

  39. someone says:

    lol. I have no way of knowing whether you work for the “secret government” or not Uncinus, but there is no doubt that you are incredibly scientific, clear in your communication, provide great links and photos extremely conveniently, and are incisive in your arguments.

    This seems to be a great site. I have spent the past 2-3 hours here.

    Thanks…. I have only now noticed how so many of the people who are vulnerable and who became concerned about the chemtrail theory are people who do not know much about the science.
    Perhaps, all these new cloud formations are due to the rapidly (It seems) growing aviation industry… safer than automobile transportation.

    I did find a girl, Catherine’s comments interesting, regarding her extremely high barium levels. any new on that? I did not exert the effort of looking for her continuing follow-up comments on it.

  40. I don’t think she ever got back with any more details. Quite often people will have “tests” done by unscrupulous alternative medicine practitioners, which invariably indicate they are toxic somehow, and need to buy their remedies.

    A case in point is the girl in “What in the World are they Spraying”, who had aluminum in her hair, but if you actually look at the test results they posted, it was not actually either accurate or high.

    It would seem sensible to NOT get a test from the same person who sells you the cure.

  41. Janet Milton says:

    In response to “Uncinus” – As I said, the “contrails” seen over the Ventura area have been in a precisely constructed grid pattern – First off you must be aware that Ventura is a coastal city. There is nothing but a lot of Ocean to the west – yet these crossing east/west grid lines are seen as far up and down the coast as the eye can see; “the routes you would expect from commuting traffic” says “Uncinus” – I don’t think so. Especially since the major airports are not even near this area or in line with the majority of the grid lines. When checking an aviation map of the airports – I’m afraid the lines do not connect or correspond. And I hope “Matt” gets a good “lol” from that as well.

  42. Janet Milton says:

    In response to “Stupid” – who ever said anything about “control”? There certainly are a lot of “suspicious minds” out there.

  43. TheFactsMatter says:

    “I don’t think so. Especially since the major airports are not even near this area or in line with the majority of the grid lines. When checking an aviation map of the airports – I’m afraid the lines do not connect or correspond.”

    Planes are crisscrossing the entire planet all the time. Are you SURE that these high altitude planes aren’t flying OVER your area to and from airports which are far away? Are you sure you understand basic principles of aviation enough to “know” that things aren’t lining up? If you don’t understand that there are thousands of planes in the sky at any given moment, and that occasionally they will leave vapor trails in the sky, I think you should find a professional, who studies these subjects correctly, and ask some questions. I think you have some beliefs mixed up.

  44. Janet, I’m very familiar with Ventura. I live in Santa Monica, and I’ve been to Ventura several time.

    I’ve also flown from LAX to northern airports several times. We basically fly out to sea, then turn north, pretty much over Ventura. Flight from more southerly airports also fly over the same area. That accounts for the North-South traffic.

    As far as the east-west traffic, you’ll notice there is a lot less of that. There’s flights to Hawaii and Asia. Still it only takes 2 or 3 to make a grid.

    It would be helpful if you could post or link to a photo of the trails over Ventura.

  45. Here’s an example, plane from Hawaii to LAX goes (slightly unexpectedly) over Ventura (just a bit to the south).


  46. Janet Milton says:

    In response to “Eric” – Why is it that you label someone with an open, curious mind “sad” and “unhappy”? You sound like you are very knowledgable in this whole scenario you have layed out here. I would say speak for yourself – but it sounds like you already have. I truly hope that trying to fill your days w/ “hobby(s)…hiking, fishing, chess or tennis… dinners… wine…. …..” and what ever other distractions you need will help make you happy – instead of finding true happiness within and “devoting some of this time and energy to a problem happening here on planet Earth”. Bottoms up, buddy.

  47. captfitch says:

    Janet- you said you saw aviation maps… can you tell us what maps you referenced? There are probably fifty different maps that cover the area of southern California. Unless you are very experienced in aviation you might look at a sectional and see only two or three different routes when, in reality, there are dozens of routes over that area. Adding to that- no one could ever accurately look up a a trail filled sky and identify specific routes aside from a few very special cases.

  48. MikeC says:

    Janet one of the memes from the chemtrail crowd is that they (chemtrails) are being used as an amplifier or conduit for mind control by HAARP or some other technology. You may not think that, but a lot of people seem to do so!

    Now it is OK to be suspicious, but when there is evidence that your suspicions are completely unfounded, it should be normal to say “OK – no problem” – perhaps retaining a little thought in the back of your mind to make sure it stays that way – that seem pretty normal to me.

    The chemtrail hoaxers, however, persistantly and pointedly refuse to entertain any evidence at all. By which I mean they have none of hteir own, and they ahve bucketloads to say they are wrong. But they ignore their own lack of evidence, and pooh-pooh any contrary evidence out of hand – without actualy evaluating it. They are an evidence free zone!!

    So I think it is quite fair to characterise them in negative terms such as “sad” and “unhappy”. Let’s face it – they have to be unhappy – because they think we are all being poisoned by something – how could you possibly be anything other than unhappy if you thought that?? Sad is perhaps harder to specifically support – but in the wider scheme of things it doesn’t seem unreasonable.

  49. TheFactsMatter says:

    I agree with Eric. It IS sad to waste ones life worrying about the “spray programs” the “evil government” has deployed against us. A WASTE!

    I use the word “sad” to mean just about the same thing as the word “pathetic”. Yes, I admit it. I think it’s PATHETIC to ignore all the evidence that clearly show that these trails are nothing but persistent contrails in order to live ones life believing that the trails are part of a sinister plot…which there is absolutely NO evidence to support.

    It’s all a HUGE misunderstanding…and the chemmies REFUSE to admit that they may be wrong.

    It really doesn’t get any more sad than that.

    And then ya have to add the fact that they “believe” they are being sprayed, and the best they can do is complain about it to each other on youtube and various blogs. If I thought, for a second, that my family was being sprayed like bugs as part of some evil plot (or, geoengineering) I would do something constructive. I certainly wouldn’t limit my protests to the online community!

    The response to this supposed spray program is also….sad.

    Shit or get off the pot!

  50. stephanie says:

    Any photos before 1940?

  51. There’s a film that seems to be shot around 1936 in Paris, that shows a persistent contrail: (at 1:29)


    Remember contrails were only first observed around 1920, and photography was rather cumbersome back then. I suspect there are some photos that remain to be found though.

  52. stephanie says:

    how would you explain this video? and if they were a natural phenomenon, why would pilots be filming them in awe?

  53. MikeC says:

    Why do you think the pilots are in awe? I didn’t notice anything in the sound track along those lines – just normal ATC chat. the only way to find out about the motivation of the pilots is to ask them – anyone else’s ideas are just speculation.

    However IMO it’s still pretty impressive to have technology that allows fast moving a/c to carry thousands of people around the world safely (pretty much) 24/7/365 and to navigate with such precision.

    And getting 4 a/c that close together in contrail producing conditions at different altitudes is also noteable – if there is some awe expressed it need be no more than that – if I had made the comment “awesome” that somenoe did, then that would be all I’d be referring to.

  54. TheFactsMatter says:

    What “awe”?!

    They are filming persitent contrails….so?

  55. TheFactsMatter says:

    BTW, persistent contrails aren’t a “natural” phenomenon, they are a NORMAL phenomenon though!

  56. MikeC says:

    The Library of congress has a large collection of photos from teh 1930’s & 40’s online.

    this one – http://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/2178260891/in/set-72157603671370361/
    View of a valley from the Skyline Drive, Virginia (LOC)
    – shows some cloud formations that local chemtrail believers would scream at – not contrails, but the straight lines and “wisps” that are classic chemtrail indicators to some.

    this one probably would too…..
    Copper mining and sulfuric acid plant, Copperhill], Tenn. (LOC)

    Note both are dates “ca 1939”

  57. SR1419 says:


    we can only guess why they were filming them…it could have been that they would have filmed them even if the conditions were not conducive to persistent contrails. There are a lot of vids on Youtube that show crossing traffic as filmed from the cockpit- some show contrails- some don’t:




    heres the video you posted without the “liveleak” stamp on it…which was presumably added to give it some sort of conspiratorial gravitas:


    Moreover, on the vid you posted you can clearly here that it is indeed an Air India flight and a FedX plane- indicating that “normal” commercial aircraft leave persistent contrails…as they always have…

  58. Stupid says:

    Those are some gorgeous Flickr photos.
    I’m a landscape painter….and will use those as reference. Thanks for the link !

  59. Nick says:

    In regards to chemtrails i can confirm that their is indeed a spraying going on in Sydney, Australia.
    I have been taking photographic evidence of the planes and the planes as they spray.
    The cloud formations that form are quite visable not natural.
    A lot of the time they spray during the night at around 2am-5am (perfect time when people are sleeping yes ;))

    I’ve even noticed a thin layer of white powder that seems to keep falling on my car and surrounding cars, making my windscreen extremely dirty sometimes 😐 now this might just be dust and things but its not the usual dust its a very pure white,

    Im looking to do some water and soil samples soon of the surrounding area to see what materials if any are being inhaled by myself, my family, my pets and the community. People should really start to take notice of this. At the moment im not to concerned but i would like to see what health effects this will have on the people its being sprayed upon…you can’t just spray the sky with chemicals in the hope of “biogeoengineering” and not expect some consequences on the area below for plants/animals and people.

  60. Alexey says:

    Nick said:

    “…spraying going on in Sydney, Australia.
    The cloud formations that form are quite visable not natural.”

    I do not know what did you mean, but this “trail” from Australia recent satellite images is indeed phenomenal:



    Its inland part is about 550 miles long and 30±10 miles wide, it goes in a straight line from East to West across NSW and above Sydney, after that it continues over Pacific for 250 miles more, widening before merging with other clouds.

    How much do you think this “trail” weighs?

  61. MikeC says:

    I’ll try calculating het volume in metric – about 900km long, by 50 km wide, and cirrus is typically about 1km thick I read somewhere – so 45,000 cubic kilometers – or 45 billion cubic metres.

    At the lower domensional limit suggested (20 miles wide – 30km), and assuming only 500m average thickness it comes to about 13,500 km^3 – 13.5 billion m^3

    I’m having a hard time finding out a typical value for how much water/ice would be in a cirrus cloud – of course it depends upon various factors such as density, pressure, temperature, humidity.

    But I can do the math on some sample values – let’s take 1 gram/cubic metre, and work from there.

    1 gram/cubic metre x 45 billion cubic metres would be 45 million kilograms, 45 thousand tonnes.

    At the lower limit I calculated above it is 13,500 tons.

    If a more realistic figure is 10 grams, or 0.1 grams, or any other amount, just multiply that as required.

    As i say I really don’t know how much moisture the visible cloud contains, so this is jsut to give soem idea of a ball-park.

  62. Alexey says:


    I think you underestimated it by three order of magnitude. It is 1 cubic km = 1 billion cubic meters, so 1,000 cubic km = 1 trillion cubic meters.

    I guess that a realistic figure of the amount of water/ice in a cirrus cloud is 0.1 gram/cubic meter (by the order of magnitude), the difference between the concentrations of water saturated vapor and ice saturated vapor at -40°. Thus, for a cloud of 1000 km long, 50 km wide and only 0.1 km thick it would be 0.5 million tonnes.

    It would be equivalent to a layer of water/ice of 10 micron thick, just barely enough to make the cloud visible.

  63. See table 2 here:



    The last column, L, is the g/m3 non-vapor water content of various cloud types. So for cirrus it’s 0.002 to 0.03 g/m3. With the lower density at lower temperatures, as much as 50 times less than Alexey’s estimate.

  64. Alexey says:


    Thanks for the experimental data. I should add that the thickness of cirrus clouds probably is at least by one order of magnitude greater than 100 meters, as suggested in my calculations.

  65. MikeC says:

    Alexey – quite right….I stand corrected……

  66. mic dundee says:

    these contrails prove that people are paranoid.

  67. Excellent images! Thanks Greg.

  68. GregOrca says:

    Another classic Douglas DC-8 advert from the 1950s http://store.vintagepaperads.com/servlet/-strse-25129/1958-Douglas-DC-dsh-8-Jetliner/Detail

    Any sane person would compare such images to Ed Griffin’s claim in WITWATS that contrails in the past were never more than about 10 to 20 plane lengths
    Douglas not only used contrails as their advertising branding in print, but used them as the opening shots in their newsreel promotions in cinemas.

  69. captfitch says:

    Nice. The print adds look nice but are wrong. In order to emphasize the fact that the jet has FOUR engines they drew all four contrails extending from the plane when in fact the trails would merge as they were wraped in the vortices.

  70. Yeah, those images are highly stylized. The only time I’ve ever seen four distinct trails like that was when I saw four planes flying in formation. It actually looked at first like it was one plane, which was wierd, but eventually I could see it was four – the photo below looks like two two-engine planes, but I’m pretty sure it was two pairs of single engine, as I remember.

    The planes are in the image, just a case of invisible plane. Small and low-contrast.

  71. GregOrca says:

    Yeah, the four distinct trails are interesting as a deliberate marketing brand image that was also adopted by TWA in the early 60s with their posters and swizzle sticks.
    It’s interesting how the contrails in those days seem to have been used as a status symbol of technical superiority and featured prominently in the promotional films of the Boeing Stratocruiser, 707 and Douglas DC8. It seems to be a public brag that they could fly so high they could form contrails unlike lesser passenger planes. To populations who had experienced major air-combat wars in person or on seen them on newsreels the trails were probably quite familiar.

  72. The Mad Ape says:

    Umm you put a lot of time into this, too bad it was a waste. Chemtrails are 100% real., But don’t take my word for it. Listen to the government researchers who are involved in it.

    Geesh sheep…wake up.wake up. WAKE UP!

    What in the World Are They Spraying?

  73. You mean like David Keith, who is featured in WITWATS? Here’s an excellent video of him discussing the subject with We Are Change Calgary:


  74. NHme says:

    I started looking for info on con-trails for a month now. I am almost 60 years old and served in the U.S. Air Force 73-77. For those that think you can’t fly an aircraft at low altitude at high speed are wrong. I worked on aircraft FB111 that could fly MK1 at less than 400 ft above tree level. I have lived near New Englands second busiest airport all of my life. I have seen con-trails that have persisted. We were told that 35,000 feet and above is reserved military air space. Normal con-trails occur above 26,000 feet. Conditions may rise or lower the altitude in which con-trails will occur. My observation is there are far to many con-trails in this area in the past two years than I’ve ever seen before. I can see the aircraft clearly as it passes leaving the trail. In the past, I could not see the aircraft clearly as it was to far up. The three aircraft I worked on (FB111, B52 D & F, F4) could only eject chaf for a seconds not minutes.

  75. NHme, I don’t think people were saying you can’t fly a plane low at high speed (unless I missed something). It’s more that contrail don’t form at low altitudes.

    35,000 and above is not reserved for military airspace. Lots of commercial and private jets fly in the 35,000 to 50,000 range.

  76. NHme says:

    35,000 and above is not reserved for military airspace. Lots of commercial and private jets fly in the 35,000 to 50,000 range.

    That is not what we were told. Things may have changed. At the time the B52 used altitude as a defense, it was the highest flying aircraft, at 55,000 feet.

    this is off topic

  77. There’s been a gradual increase in contrails over the last 30 year, as the amount of air traffic has quadrupled. It also varies from year to year with the weather. So if, say, there were a couple of years with poor contrail weather, and then a year with very good contrail weather, then you might think things have changed. But it’s just the weather.

    Consider that some years it rains a lot, some years it does not rain much. It does not mean that the climate has changed, it’s just natural variation.

    Did you hear about chemtrails before or after you noticed the increase?

  78. Jay Reynolds says:

    NHme, check out the online tool flightaware.com.

    Click on your state, then the nearest airport to you.
    Enlarge the window and you can zoom out to see all the ordinary flights in your area.
    You can hover our cursor over the planesto see their flight altitude, tail number, speed and destination.
    If you are interested in aviation, yo will find it very cool and should be able to identify the planes you see.
    Get back to us here and let us know what you learn.

  79. NHme says:


  80. MikeC says:

    There may well ahve been cases of restricted airspaces based on altitude over the years – and there are certainly restricted areas for military operations – ranges, etc.

    And in the 1960’s military wargames grounded US civil flights on 3 occasions – http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/this-is-only-a-test.html

    But as has been said, in general there is no such restriction on altitude unless it has been specifically promulgated.

  81. SR1419 says:

    Can Someone (Unicinus) tell me which article had the thread with several pictures of contrails over China in it??

    I tried to search with the search box but to no avail…it didn’t even find “china:…


  82. Alexey says:


    You can Google the site. For example, search with ‘china site:contrailscience.com’

  83. Alexey says:

    PS There is such a thread in ‘Fake, Hoax, Chemtrail Videos’ at July 23, 2011 (https://contrailscience.com/fake-hoax-chemtrail-videos/comment-page-4/)

  84. NHme says:

    What happened to my post August 8, 2011? and photo?

  85. There was an Oct 8th post with just a photo that got filtered as spam. I’ve restored it. Was there something else?

    It seems to show a plane leaving contrails.

  86. tryblinking says:

    A good illustration of the contrail ‘gap’ in the chemtrail theory.

  87. Casey says:

    Uncinus: Thank you so much for being a polite voice of reason. You have far more patience that I would–I get so frustrated with how many Americans are being suckered into tinfoil-hat culture these days. You are a credit to reasonable people, and I’m happy that someone nicer than me is out there doing the groundwork to try to spread sanity. If people really want to be a part of a counter-culture, the anti-paranoia movement could certainly use some members.

  88. SR1419 says:

    ….apropos of nothing really…other than contrail photos through history…

    an elderly relative of mine had a recent birthday and someone had put together a photo album of pictures through the years….and lo and behold- there was a picture of the Matterhorn complete with multiple long contrails streaming over the top…the picture was from somewhere in the early 80s- probably ’82 or 83…

    I noted it to myself but didn’t have the guts to point it out to anyone else…no one knows my …er..interest in contrails…

    this is the only place I can be a contrail dork 🙂

  89. Which Matterhorn? Disneyland, DisneyWorld, or the Alps?

  90. SR1419 says:

    Oh…sorry…should have clarified…the original Matterhorn…in the Swiss Alps…ski trip…

  91. woz says:

    what a pile of horseshit, the fact that the pictures are old proves nothing, what you see on these pictures people, are chemtrails, only chemtrails, nothing but chemtrails…there is no such thing as a persistent contrail…you’re just scared as shit to admit that chemtrails are a reality, so you come up with some bullshit explanation.

  92. John says:


    It appears that the only one scared of anything around here is you.

    No such thing as a persistant contrail???

    Right, lets look at this with some LOGIC instead of scare-mongering:

    A contrail is just water vapour right?
    A “chemtrail” is made of other nasties, aimed at killing us all? (lol look who’s the one being scared)
    You “know” the difference between the two because only a chemtrail can persist??
    Am i right so far???

    Yet what is a cloud made of???
    Water vapour…

    Do clouds persist???
    I’m sure you will agree that they do…

    So hmmm lets go back to the start:
    A contrail – water vapour…
    A CLOUD – water vapour…

    A contrail – can persist
    A CLOUD – can persist.

    Well i guess that looks like there was no need to ever consider those “scary” things in the sky, to be anything other than contrails.

    If you cant tell me why i’m wrong in the above statement, then you must concede that i’m right.
    If not. You sir, are an idiot.

  93. captfiatch says:

    I would further suggest that if chemtrails appear in old photos then they have been around for quite some time. Either they are useless or whatever they are doing is somehow beneficial as we are all living longer, healthier lives overall.

  94. Tom says:

    I too have noticed an apparent change in the sky as related to Contrails left behind from aircraft, but after thinking about it and being a private pilot, and aircraft enthusiest, It may just be possible that new aircraft are much larger then before, and have much more powerfull engines, the thrust of a jet in the 70’s was perhaps only 10 to 20,000 Lbs at best, some of todays new engines exceed 100,000 Lbs.
    These larger engines are bound to produce much larger contrails.
    Also in respect to seeing more planes fly near clouds, even the largest airlines will fly around a building cloud formation, especially a thunder storm, (towering cumullus), and will seem to be more concentrated, there is a great deal of turbulence and potential distructive forces inside these clouds so planes will avoid them

  95. Johnny boy says:

    I have a feeling that, while all of us are so deep into these discussions, something very serious is happening above our heads. I’m the last person who would panic and trust everything I hear, and I’m always looking for a scientific explanation, but this is something different. It all started when I sat down in my studio to watch some of time lapses I’ve made with my Sony EX3 camera. I noticed some strange, long trails which covered almost everything in the frame, and they were expanding across the sky. It looks very weird in time laps… Since then, I can’t stop thinking about this phenomenon, and everyday I’m looking up at the sky. It’s full of those trails.

  96. Time lapse films naturally look strange. But they reveal the physical processes going on with contrail formation and spreading. It’s ice. Read up a little on how they grow and spread, it’s very interesting.

  97. GregOrca says:

    Johnny Boy, have a watch of the following time lapses.
    They reveal an interesting truth: that people are usually a bit too preoccupied, distracted or too busy to pay attention to common but slow acting phenomenon around them, and when such completely normal phenomenon are pointed out to them for what seems to be the first time they think such normal phenomena are somehow abnormal and unfamiliar. But the issue is not the phenomena, it’s human perception, attentiveness and memory.

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