Several planes look a little odd, or have attachments that look odd, and so some people feel they must be part of a decades long conspiracy to spray stuff into the atmosphere to alter the weather or reduce the population. That’s obviously nonsense, but what are these strange planes?
[Update: there are many other photos like the “barrel” interior below, I’ve collected a lot of them on Metabunk]
Here’s one making the rounds, scary looking barrels, and a sign on the wall that possibly says “Hazmat inside”
What is it? It’s a Boeing 777-200LR Worldliner, specifically it’s WD001, a plane that was used for flight testing. The original photo can be found here – note the “Hazmat” text was added later. The barrels contain water, which is pumped around to shift the center of gravity to test various flight characteristics.
Here’s a description of a similar setup from the 2002 book, “Inside Boeing, Building the 777”, page 76., describing tests done in 1994.
From Boeing’s blog:
Remember, we test at the extremes of the weight/CG envelope. This requires us to control the CG during ground and flight conditions. We can move weight, in the form of water, forward or aft with the use of the water ballast system. This system is comprised of 48 barrels, each capable of carrying 460 pounds, connected by tubing to a pump. A computerized system tracks fuel placement, fuel burn, people placement, ballast, flap setting, landing gear position and water barrel quantity. The information is processed to display the airplane’s current CG. We move water or specify fuel tank usage to configure the CG within the specified test requirements.
Why are there overhead luggage compartments? It’s a test plane, and for FAA certification they have to demonstrate that everything works. That includes stuff like the emergency oxygen system, and more minor things like the luggage compartments. It’s a requirement that they don’t pop open in flight – so that needs to be tested. They are also handy for stowing the engineers’ stuff.
Here’s some pictures from Boeing:
And a lot more photos can be found on Boeing’s site.
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This one gets a lot of use in the “chemtrail” forums:
Particularly because of the unusual collections of pipes sticking out in various places. There’s those two at the front, and then there is a group over the wing. Here’s some close ups
:
Very sinister looking tubes, but why are half of them facing the wrong way?
The plane is not for spraying the atmosphere, it’s for sampling the atmosphere. It’s a research aircraft, registration N701BN, operated by th e department of energy’s national labs. It’s pretty much one of a kind, so it’s hardly likely to be responsible for all the persistent contrails we see every day. The research is mostly on pollutants in the atmosphere, particularly from coal and oil burning power plants. But they also investigate the properties of clouds, which includes contrails.
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Here’s another photo you see in “chemtrail” videos, with the implied suggestion that it’s some kind of evil spraying device:
Actually it IS a spraying device, but quite innocuous. It’s on an NKC-135A (55-3128) with the refueling boom modified to spray water. This used by the air force to test icing of planes in flight.
Here’s the original photo:
See also: https://www.safaq.hq.af.mil/news/march04/raptor.html
Here’s some more details:
nkc-135-icing-attachmentpv1983_2688.pdf
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This plane is quite interesting:
It’s an E-6B “Tacamo”. This photo shows it dumping fuel (photo from tacamo.org). The E-6B is used by the United States Strategic Command as an airborne communication center. You can see the navy logo on the right wing. The E-6B is a modified version of the Boeing 707-320, and the fuel vents have been moved from the wing tips to between the fuselage and the engines in order to separate it from the communication equipment in the wing tips. This is what the wing-tip ESM/SATCOM pod looks like:
It looks like this odd assemblage is also creating some wingtip vortex contrails as well. The plane is pretty much all white, which is something you hear mentioned from time to time in “chemtrail” conspiracy theories.
Here’s another photo of the same plane, taken from a “chemtrail” YouTube video:
It shows the opening and drogue for the ELF trailing wire antenna. This is a very long wire antenna that is extended behind the plane for several hundred feet and used for communications with submarines. The “drogue” is just a cone-shaped weight. Here’s a close-up
http://www.flickr.com/photos/coldwararchaeology/5180470207/in/photostream
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This plane also looks at first glance like it might be dumping fuel (click image for full sized photo):
But the trails are actually coming from six smoke generators. It was part of a NASA test to study wake vortices, you can read about it here:
http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/B-747/HTML/ECN-4242.html
Six smoke generators were installed under the wings of the 747 to provide a visual image of the trailing vortices. The object of the experiments was to test different configurations and mechanical devices on the747 that could be used to break up or lessen the strength of the vortices. The results of the tests could lead to shorter spacing between landings and takeoffs, which, in turn, could alleviate air-traffic congestion.
Here’s another image of the same plane:
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This plane also occasionally get brought up in chemtrail conspiracy groups:
This is obviously not a contrail, it’s far too low and the trail is dropping too rapidly.
It’s a Boeing 747-100 “Supertanker”, modified by Evergreen Aviation, the only one of its kind. Specifically designed for fire fighthing. That’s it dumping water. Here’s some more recent photos.
Here’s a video of it in action, titled “B747 chemtrails”. It’s interesting reading the comments, as the first comment correctly identifies what it is, and then everyone else just ignores that and starts speculating.
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This one looks like a plane spraying stuff. But again it’s rather close to the ground. It’s actually taking off with the assistance of rockets. It’s not spraying, that’s just rocket exhaust.
This particular plane is a Boeing B-47B, rocket assisted take off, April 15, 1954. An no, that’s not a contrail in the sky behind it – it’s rip in the photo. Click on it for a large version from Wikipedia.
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This one is used for cloud seeding. It does not actually spray anything but uses silver iodine flares that are either ejected, or burn in place.
It’s operated by the Sandy land Underground Water Conservation district of Plains, Texas, as part of their SOAR program. They have some more photos of similar equipment on their site. They are all small aircraft not capable of getting to the above 30,000 feet where contrails normally form.
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This next photo is also of silver iodine flares, fixed underneath at large plane.
These also show up in “chemtrail” literature. They are sold by Weather Modification Inc, they make a range of weather modification equipment. About this one they say:
WMI racks for ejectable flares are mounted on the belly of the aircraft fuselage. Each rack holds 102 cartridges. When fired, the pyrotechnic is ignited and ejected from the aircraft. In this configuration, the WMI Lear 35A is equipped with four 102-count racks for ejectable glaciogenic pyrotechnics, a total of 408 flares.
Here’s another, this time from North American Weather Consultants, Inc.
About which they say:
This aircraft-mounted cloud seeding generator is fixed in place, and can burn a silver iodide solution during flight.
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This one is the “Mk.32 drogue-type underwing pod on the Armée de l’Air Boeing C-135FR Stratotanker” (“93-CC”- s/n 63-8472 of GRV 93). It’s an in-flight refueling system on a French Boeing C-135FR Stratotanker, photographed in Canada, Feb 2005.
See: http://www.baha.be/Webpages/Navigator/News/tanker_flight_240205.htm
The following is supposed to be a plane that has “chemtrail aerosol nozzles” over three of the engines.
In reality, this plane N707MQ is a Boeing 707-320B. The engines are Pratt & Whitney JT3D-3:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Omega-Tanker/Boeing-707-321B/1622886/M/
It should be perfectly obvious that the “nozzles” are facing the wrong way to be spraying anything. They are actually turbocompressors, which are driven by engine bleed air, and are used to pressurize the interior of the plane. There are only three, as that’s all you need. Here’s a discussion:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/8225/
ha… trails across numerous states. that was meant to read. In reality it’s also easy to see trails across numerous oceans too.
Chewbot wrote:
“A simple search on “inside a chemical airliner provides all these photos and more, as well as many interesting sky photos. Including photos from space showing thousands of “chem trails” across three states.”
I tried this search but came up with nothing. If you could link directly to something you believe actually supports your claim, you might be more informative.
The above comment has an interesting blog posting debunking chemtrail promotions in Poland. They blame the spread of chemtrail conspiracy theory on the USA. That’s mostly correct.
Bloody blog spam !!
Zapped, thanks. Most of the spam gets automatically filtered out. I get a spam comment about every two minutes here.
Uncinus, the project of this site is terribly interesting and brilliantly taken care of. Thank you. I’m late: I heard about those trails for the first time today talking with traveling German artists. Of course it reminds me of former ufo theories (also their epistemology). Carl Jung demonstrated that the collective human mind needs those conspirator theories to function properly, and this site illustrates every aspect of that psychological feature.
I myself for instance, am quite fond of those explaining the role of central banking within global monetary war for instance, though I tend to put a grain of salt here and there when it’s too much unrefined (that’s the drawback of revering CG Jung).
I read a funny comment of 2008 attacking you, from a person saying there’s no way a sane mind would put so much work in debunking something without having vested interest. I disagree. No money can pay for what you did here. It’s absolutely original!
Best regards
Chris J from the French countryside.
Uncinus – Voice of reason.
Thank you for this site. I’m a fairly skeptical person and therefore tend not to accept opinion as fact or to take someone’s word for something without taking into account my own observations. I’ve failed to be convinced by chemtrail theory since I first came across it a few years ago, and the more I look into it the more unconvinced I become. Your articles and comments are a breath of fresh air in that they are clear, well researched and referenced, and you make a point of analyzing data properly. All of which seem to lack in any argument I’ve heard for chemtrails. I pretty much have my own well formed arguments against them, mostly based on the physics of how water vapour and ice crystals behave under varying atmospheric conditions to counter the “It must be a chemtrail cos it looks like this!” arguments, but you’ve provided a whole other collection of information for me to digest and share.
Impressive work, keep it up.
Wow Uncinus i am rather impressed with your persistance in debunking all these comments you must either be a well paid goverment employee or a complete blind fool, i live in the UK and our skies are full of chemtrails practically every day, i record and photograph them every day and make all my neighbours fully aware of them, i have lived in the UK all my life and untill 5 yeras ago they were not seen much in our skies but this year there is an explosion of chemtrails i have 3 sisters who are all astmatic and when the chemtrails start they have breathing problems, we are not the stupid sheeple you think we all are, we know the process of goverment debunking, 1 redicule the idea, 2 totally denigh it excists, 3 if all else fails admit to geo engineering and tell the sheeple your trying to save the world and of course there has to be colaturall damage, i`m sure the chemical dispersal from all these planes contain a mass of toxic metals [Aluminum, Arsenic, Cadnium, Thorium, Chronium, Nickel, Iron, Lead, Magnanese, Stontnium,] that is to name a few but i`m sure there are many other chemicals too, of course we do not have any proof you know its true ` but i`m sure the goverments of the world will complete their global plan and then it will be too late for some of us and then you have but a short time untill Gods wrath will pour down upon the perpertraters of this coming genocide
Bernie, what ridicule are you referring to? And are you sure that your sisters asthma isn’t brought on by changes in weather/atmospheric conditions…just as the contrails are changed by changing conditions at altitude?!
No one thinks you’re stupid…just uninformed…and a bit gullible.
I have seen zero evidence that any of those elements have been added to any part of the environment by any sort of government spray program involving airplanes…and neither have you.
bernie’s post looks like flame bait IMO.
It satisfies all requirements. The word sheeple, sickness, recent development, metals, government, and finally god.
But then again there are people who genuinely and honestly believe everything bernie said. So it’s hard to tell.
Nice Bernie, apparently you did not read anything Mick has done here. There is practically no ridicule in what he writes, and he is heavy on the factual debunking. Yet, it is you who is low on facts and heavy on speculation and personal attacks. Go figure.
Please come back when want to talk, not insult.
Hughes Aircraft Patent #5,003,186… its real, and its happening.
Well,all of the above “Systems” can be easily modified,in Photo 1 Bio/Chem Hazard Codes are displayed on the drums,also a Danger Chemical Hazmat sign is prominently displayed just look properly,The E-6B Photo is NOT Dumping Fuel ,the Photo was taken during a Chemical Weapons Test (UPCP) in Ramstein AFB Germany 16.06.1990 and Water enriched with Aluminium Oxide was Released the Ground Monitor could then Identify ,the “Spread” on Radar,a C-135F Stratotanker is regularly used for Aerosol Operations according to the USAF own Publications.Nobody Claims that THAT B-747 100 is a ” Chemtrailer” it’s the Company EVERGREEN in Question which is owned by the CIA and we do have the Documents from the USAF giving EVERGREEN the Contract for US Aerosol Operations.The B-47B RAT,Boeing 707-320B & ELF Trailing Antenna was NEVER associated with “Chemtrail” Aerosol Ops only by Trolls,Debunkers etc.also,why are the so called FAA “Aprovers” wearing DARPA Name/ID Tags? The Aircrafts used for “Chemtrail” Ops are KC-10,KC-135 & KC-137 maybe you need to look at my Photographs,read the 76000 Pages of Official Mil/Gov Files or talk to Col.Jim Schweigert (i can arrange that for you) or Google – RF/mp VTRPE,Operation Red Sky,Operation Raindance,Operation Cumulus,Operation Cloverleaf,Case Orange….. Let’s Talk.
Cap’n- you said a lot with some vigor.
But at first glance a couple of things worth noting…
First the “Danger chemical hazmat” sign was photoshopped in…follow the link to the original and you will see no such sign.
Second- Evergreen is not “owned” by the CIA, moreover, they have only one (1!) supertanker capable of any aerial dispersal….
…and third – Case Orange doesn’t say much…it’s conclusions based on weak evidence and reasoning- see here for some analysis:
http://metabunk.org/threads/95-Debunked-Belfort-Group-quot-Case-Orange-quot-conclusions-amp-recommendations?highlight=Case+orange
“Captain” wrote:
“The Aircrafts used for “Chemtrail” Ops are KC-10,KC-135 & KC-137 maybe you need to look at my Photographs”
This I gotta see. Show me the way to your photographs…..
Re: VTRPE
That was a hoax by A.C. Griffith. H erecently passed away and his son explained that his father made stuff up, he only worked at the Post Office.
http://metabunk.org/threads/210-How-did-barium-get-into-chemtrails?p=12216&viewfull=1#post12216
Now, show us these photos.
When a contrail lingers for hours only to widen 1000 fold then slowly disperse into synthestic clouds then you know these are NOT CONTRAILS! THE SKIES DID NOT LOOK LIKE THIS IN THE 70’S 80’S 90’S! chemtrails are real! besides i have seen military planes the same height flying paralell 1 had a contrail from east to west the other had nothing! EXPLAIN THAT! then they both slowly turned around and made an huge X in the sky, 35 MIN LATER THERE WERE 4 MILITARY JETS THEY MADE A TIC TAC TOE IN THE SKY! A GRID PATTERN! i HAVE ALSO SEEN INJECTORS ON THE WINGS OF PLANES AT THE AIR NATIONAL GAURD BASE! I have also seen these chemtrails turn off and on, probably switching tanks! i have also recorded video of chemtrails coming from the tail tips and on other planes the wing tips, there are no engines there!!! BUSTED!! there are always artificial clouds in the sky now! they are working on weather modification, geo-engineering, cloud seeding, STROSPHER INJECTIONS! FACT! to do that theu use planes that spray barium aluminum! the word chemtrail in a gov bill passed by kucinich! WAKE UP PEOPLE!
Please read the site. You’re repeating BS.
57states said:
“i have also recorded video of chemtrails coming from the tail tips and on other planes the wing tips”
I would like to watch these videos of yours. Can you upload them?
hei dude, you are really great
________________________________
yahoo
Hello Uncinus, thank you so much for all your information and this site and taking the time to reply and the way you do that! But I also thought you were interested in scientific proof of chemtrails? Please take the time to look at this lecture by a Dr. Ir. of the Technical University of Delft in Holland? Thank you.
Thanks for all the info and your site Uncinus! And all your thoughtfull replies too 😉 But I thought you were also interested in scientific proof for chemtrails? Perhaps it’s usefull to take some time and look at this lecture of a Dr. Ir of the Technical University of Delft Holland about chemtrails? Looking forward to your thoughts. Thanks again.
http://terugnaardesterren.com/Coen_Vermeeren_Chemtrail.html
I am troubled by several things I have seen with my own 2 eyes and that I have never seen addressed or explained satisfactorily by any of these sites or videos that explain away the chemtrail phenomenon as “normal contrails”.
First, the patterns laid down by the airplanes on days when they are emitting these trails. I have a wide panorama of sky viewable from my house, and I notice that on days where there are large and noticeable trails, the planes appear to make efforts to ‘fan out’ into a wide area of sky, seemingly spraying in patterns in an attempt to maximize the amount of blue sky that they can cover. I have seen as many as 5 planes spraying behind them at once, literally forming a ‘fan’ pattern in the sky, that over time fans out into very wide and long-lasting white cloud cover that looks distinctly different from normal clouds. As I have watched them from the moment the planes emitted the trails to hours later, I cannot wish them away as normal clouds. They have literally covered the entire sky in “clouds” where blue sky was present before the planes passed over. If this is “normal” I find it quite disturbing. There is no noticeable weather pattern associated with this – it has happened on cloudless days with low humidity on numerous occasions – the only commonality is that the planes were emitting these trails behind them on those days. On following days, with the same weather pattern, planes fly over emitting no trails, and no clouds form. Also, on those same days, where enormous trails are emitted by certain planes seemingly flying in a coordinated manner, one can see other planes flying overhead at the same altitude, emitting normal trails, not clouding up the sky at all. I do not understand how this can be.
Also, I have watched the planes flying many times in ‘parallel’ formations, which I have never seen commercial planes do on days when they are not emitting these trails behind. They fly in close proximity to each other, as many as 4 planes doing this nearly simultaneously. This again appears to be coordinated for maximum cloud cover effect, as the trails combine to form long-lasting clouds that cover an enormous amount of formerly blue sky, and these “clouds” persist for several hours.
Thirdly, I have seen the planes flying in anomalous patterns that do not correlate to normal flight patterns. I have seen on numerous occasions planes flying ‘tight circles’ with the spray coming out heavily from behind, to form circle or horseshoe patterns in the sky, encircling trails placed by planes flying in straight lines. I have seen planes double back and fly in the opposite direction, always emitting the same large trails while doing so. I cannot think of any logical reason for commercial aircraft to fly in either of these strange patterns. I have also seen planes flying across each others paths in geometric ‘checker board’ patterns. All of this does not correlate to normal commercial flight patterns as I view them in the sky. Furthermore, while the spray-emitting patterns are doing this, I view ‘normal’ plane contrails from planes flying at the same general altitude, in the same general direction. How do we explain 1 plane emitting an enormously wide pattern of spray, while another one flying on the same day, in the same direction, emits a normal contrail? I have seen this on countless occasions. I remain very troubled by this.
Lastly, I note that during times of heavy spray, there were many more aircraft visible in the sky then in times where spraying was not being done. From January to April of this year, I noticed very frequent heavy trail emission, along with a great deal of air traffic overhead during the day. Then, from May to September of this year (2012), I did not notice any visible trail spraying, on any days, for several months. Along with this, there seemed to be a much smaller percentage of overall air traffic. Perhaps this was due to the aircraft being less obviously visible due to not emitting gigantic gas trails behind them – but I am outside every day, and there seemed to be less than 50% of the plane traffic that was in the sky during the heavy spraying periods.
Then, suddenly, on September 21st, there was a day of heavy trail emission again, and all of the above phenomena were noted, along with far more air traffic then normal. I am at an absolute loss to understand how there could have been this sudden drop in air traffic from May to September, a time of year one would surely expect increased air traffic, it being the summer season. Now, with spraying resumed, there seems once again to be a great increase in air traffic. Yesterday a plane flew directly over my house, with a large trail coming out of it, and it spread out to cover an enormous distance, and this trail cloud lasted the entire afternoon. I find this disturbing.
Also, I have seen from satellite photos that the trail patterns, visible on satellite photos, do not in any way correlate to normal flight path patterns between commercial airports. The trails, again, seemed to be laid to cover the maximum amount of sky in an area, and are not in any normal flight pattern. I have seen large amounts of trails out over the middle of the ocean, fanned out in all directions, in sat photos. Many people have noticed the trails seeming to be placed in certain areas to either suppress cloud formation, or to “push” a weather front in certain directions. None of this is explainable in normal commercial air traffic patterns.
Furthermore, from watching some of the ‘chemtrail’ documentaries, I became aware of numerous ground water and ground soil tests which seemed to indicate that large quantities of aluminum and other toxic metals had been measured in the soil, groundwater, and air of areas where residents had noticed these trails and anomalous cloud cover was becoming frequent, and was a result of the trails emitted by aircraft over time, day after day, on days where otherwise there were previously only blue skies. There were noticeable changes in the ph of the soil, and emormously greater amounts of certain metals that were not present in large amounts prior to these overflights being viewed. There seems to be an undeniable connection here that debunker sites do not have an answer for that satisfies me.
Another aspect that I find troubling is the ‘fine fibers’ that are present in the air after the days where these trails are visible. I have placed mirrors face up in my yard after days of visible trails, and inevitably I find these fine fibers upon the surface of the mirror. After a time of no visible trails, when I place the mirror out, I do not find these same particles on the mirror. One can actually ‘see’ the fibers floating in the sky in the dark with a flashlight. Also, I notice the sun and the moon often having a “ring” visible in the sky around them during times of these trails being emitted in large quantities. I am at a loss to explain these anomalies as well, and the debunker sites do nothing to address these issues.
In short, after many years of being in denial myself, I feel there is simply too much anomalous evidence in front of my eyes to write everything I have listed here as “normal”. And even if they were normal, what right do aircraft have to fill the blue skies with artificial clouds that persist throughout the day, to block out the sun, to fill the air with strange fibers and particles, and to provoke consistent year-round allergies and respiratory problems in so many people as we see since the onset of these so called contrails? This is in fact the reason I started to take the chemtrail explanation seriously – it was my year-round allergies and breathing problems, problems I never had in my life until I started to see all of these trails in the sky. Through careful research, I have learned to adapt my diet in such a way as to minimize these problems – but they are still happening to so many people we know in my area (in southern California).
You do nothing to address the issues I have raised here to my satisfaction, and it makes me feel as if you are only creating a way to rationalize what you do not want to admit to yourselves: that something disturbing is happening here and that it is being officially denied, we do not know what it is, nor does any agency of any government have regulatory control over it. And in order to protect ourselves from the ramifications of this, we place a wall of rationalizations in front of us, and band together to belittle those who threaten our rationalizations.
BarryTroubled said:
“You do nothing to address the issues I have raised here to my satisfaction”.
There is at least one article on this site for every paragraph of your posting. Please point out what you think has not been addressed here satisfactorily.
Barry- what would describe as “normal” flight patterns? I’ve always wondered what the norm is?
http://www.flickr.com/groups/98475613@N00/pool/with/7981132549/#photo_7981132549
No, no chemtrails here folks. Run along as you are all imagining it.
Ok, Rich, what makes you think those are not contrails?
I have the house upside down to be proving various reforms
I can not wait to be an expert
url = http://tommaso.byethost18.com/no-seas-tonto-y-di-lo-que-piensas/ ] read more / url ]
I think your all missing the point here. Even if there is no intended spraying going on here, there is some rather serious effects going on with the clouds after they pass I too see it daily AND YES MIKE WE DO HAVE PICTURES thousands and thousands of pictures and time lapse video so why dont you quit quoting the propaganda partyline because if nothing else there needs to be a serious study of whats going on even if it is just a normal contrail because clouds do form on them all you have to do is spend a few hours monitering one in your area
@SFX-
The study of persistent contrails and the resulting contrail cirrus clouds have been studied for decades and continue to be studied as to their potential effects on climate- for example:
http://wakenet.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/2nd_major_WN3E-Workshop/presentations/WN3E_Session_special_Burkhardt.pdf
You can debate this plane or that all day, but you cant debate Operation LAC that “offically” started in 1957, but is speculated to have been started in 1953.
“Operation LAC was a U.S. Army Chemical Corps operation which dispersed microscopic zinc cadmium sulfide (ZnCdS) particles over much of the United States. The purpose was to determine the dispersion and geographic range of biological or chemical agents.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_LAC
Yeah, but what does that have to do with the trails in the sky?
For all those of you here who are afraid of Chemtrails, Vaccinations, HAARP, Fluoride and Chlorine in the water, GM Foods ETC, may I remind you that Cuba still has missiles pointed at america and the russian doomsday machine is still operational. Better go seal yourselves in a lead lined, Hermetically Sealed shelter and I will gladly lock it from the outside to keep you safe. OH and don’t forget your Tin foil hats and farady cages to keep you safe from the Mind control Rays.
Explain why I see the chemtrails I get less mpg in my vehicle!!!!! And mailman is late to, more big govt & big oil conspiracies!!
Whose responsible this?
I called the cops here in Madison wi to later get into contact with the airport to be told they don’t know who owns the planes up there, not to mention they are flying much higher than any commercial planes. How can you deny what is being left in our skies?
I don’t deny it. I explain it.
Planes leave contrails. Sometimes they persist.
Why In The World would you call the police about contrails in the sky? That is just plain silly. There are laws about wasting their time with hoaxes, and you might have distracted them from something real. Please don’t make that suggestion to anyone else, it is a bad idea.
ARMY ADMITS testing on ST. Louis – Spraying Radioactive Chemicals – in the 50’s and 60’s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XciXCRnqiPw
And what does this have to do with the long white lines in the sky that people call “chemtrails”, but actual look exactly like contrails?
Is there some evidence that they are spraying chemicals now? 60 years later?
Mick…I started to think you had some validity.. Now I see you basically calling people who don’t believe the story of 9/11 basically nuts.. Clearly it is YOU who are blind. Building 7 clearly was detonated. Do you even know about it? 47 story skyscrapers don’t implode into their own footprint from 3% of the building being on fire. You are spreading lies and BS.
Ryan,
Nice to find that you have had no substantive problems with anything about this site’s subject matter.
It really is about time to got over it, that belief system was built on just as many lies as chemtrails, and many who bought into both have found themselves in a state of unreality. I hope you can get out of conspiracy culture. it is a poor way to live because it fosters fear & paranoia leading nowhere.
Bye.
Oh dear, more crank magnetism. (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crank_magnetism)
Ryan, I don’t think they are nuts. Just wrong.
ContrailScience is for discussing contrails and the chemtrail conspiracy theory. If you’d like to discuss 9/11, then I suggest metabunk.org, where there are several existing 9/11 threads, for example:
http://metabunk.org/threads/364-9-11-Is-this-photo-consistent-with-a-progressive-collapse.
The best way to keep a secret is putting in front of everyone…
This photos are: fire extinguishing systems, agricultural fumigation, aerodynamic testing, military testing, etc …
Those photos are of those things. I’m not sure what point you are making? Are some photos misidentified?
Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality,
KSLA News 12 sampled the water at a lab and initially reported a high level of barium, 6.8 parts per million, more than three times the toxic level set by the EPA. However the KSLA reporter had misread the reading, which was actually 68 parts per billion, well within expected ranges, and the station retracted the story.
I have a few pictures of what seems to be an orb in front of a chemtrail or contrail. I am not sure and the orb really looks like a luminescent and nothing like I have ever seen before. Can you please take a look and tell me what you think it is?
check out my photo on facebook page. http://www.facebook.com/dontblinkartphotography
Christine, your picture is only a few pixels high. The camera focussed what tiny image it had of the plane on the very few available sensor pixels on the camera sensor.
ie, your camera has nowhere near enough resolving power to reveal details of distant objects like that.
The wings themselves would be sub-pixel, ie, too small to register more than one sensor pixel and thus would only register as a single pixel block if at all.
Here’s what your camera actually saw:
http://www.mckeewildthings.com/Contrails/sensororb.jpg
http://www.mckeewildthings.com/Contrails/sensororb2.jpg
Digitally blowing up and blurring those few square pixels using interpolation the way you have done does not reveal any more detail, it produces less information and distorts what you have filmed, the flaring reflection of the sun off the plane’s fuselage and wings. They look different in different shots because the angle of the plane changes relative to you because it is flying. If you take ANY image of a bright distant object that only registers on a few camera sensor pixels and blow them up via interpolation the way you have the interpolation algorithm will blur and round the square pixel corners so it looks like a round “orb”. You are reacting to the detail losing result of digital imaging processing , not to anything you actually photographed.
The plane you say “next to it” is no-where near the other plane, but many kilometres closer and lower.
That’s a bit like saying the flowers in http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/551982_317738624989175_1485321045_n.jpg are “next to” the clouds visible behind them.
Plus- you seem to think the military has the ability to cloak aircraft (which they certainly do not), yet there is a visible trail behind the aircraft. Why go to the trouble of hiding the aircraft (which they can’t do) and not bother hiding the trail (which they can do)?
THE POINT IS…
CONTRAIL IS NOT CHEMTRAIL. NOWBODY HAVE THIS CONFUSION, ONLY HERE.
CHEMTRAILS+HAARP = DEAD.
CONTRAIL= VAPOR TRAIL
The point really is that nobody has been able to demonstrate a difference between a supposed “chemtrail” and a persistent contrail.
Interesting site. I can assure you that I DON’T want to believe in the chemtrail storyline. Unfortunately, any logical person who sees the sun blocked out of their sky EVERYDAY as a result of aircraft dispersions will want to know why it has gotten so bad.
Simple fact. Everyday the sky is hazed out as a result of aircraft dispersions. Do I need to state it again?
This is not something that was evident a few years ago. That is another fact.
This is something that is now so prolific, that I look up to see the air traffic pattern rather than watch the news or weather station for the forecasted sky.
At this point, I am less concerned with what planes are spraying – if anything – than I am of the simple fact that they block the sun from the sky day after day.
BarryTroubled expressed some basic human concerns that I echo here. There are no explanations for the sheer proliferation of con/chem trails (I don’t give a damn what you call them) that are in the sky. I appreciate all the factual representation here on this site. However, none of this addresses the obvious issue that air traffic dispersions have become so prolific that they are impacting our weather. Perhaps this has been the case throughout aviation history. I will not pretend to know that history. I do know that I have never observed this kind of air pollution before in years past. I have never seen so many trails across a sky stay for so long and disperse into such dense cloud formations. Never. Simple fact.
These simple facts are being noted by people all over the world. Why are contrails suddenly so long lasting, prolific, dispersing, varied?? Why is air traffic so erratic? Commercial airliners do NOT fly in erratic patters. I have been a business traveler long enough to know that there are specific routes flown, and while they may vary according to weather patterns, there are none that match the erratic patters of trails flown in our skies daily.
Explain. I am anxious to believe that commercial airliners have reason to fly erratic patterns across the sky – day and night (well after midnight when there is hardly any commercial traffic in our area) and leave harmless trails of vapor that spread across the sky and linger for hours and hours, blocking out the sun.
I think you would be surprised just how much traffic there is over your location, particularly from distant airports and international destinations. Have you checked on sites like FlightRadar24.com ? You need to look at traffic that’s above 28,000 feet. What is your location?
Contrail formation depends on the weather, some places get a lot more than others. It varies about as much as the rain varies. Places where it rains a lot will get more contrails.
It does sometimes create a lot of cloud cover. This is not a new thing, but there’s a lot more traffic now than 30 years ago.
Woooooooooowwwww !
I’m amazed by the HUGE amount of nonsense human out there.. LOL ! Blind men and women thinking that two planes that seems to fly next eachover could not have different trails.. Sooo ! CHEMTRAILS ! Obviously !
COME ON !
In fact, those who think chemtrails exists and are sprayed over our head every day are just mind closed ! Billions of evidence are out there and YOU stick on your opinion !? Well, I would say “just leave us with our poor chemtrailed life and rest in peace !” as I’m not as gentle as Uncinus.
You guys are really undefeatable. Just like those who were absolutely sure the 21th of December was the end of the world. Hopefully, some of them are not there anymore to bug us with that.
Chemtrails.. chemtrails. You have only this word in the mouth. Well ! Here in Madagascar, we would like to have chemtrails, also ! If we get one, it’s ONCE in the month ! If there are kind of hazard spray done by those planes, it would be a chemical that improves live being. Didn’t you ever asked yourself why you have better life than any other people in the third world where there are a LOT LESS chemtrails ???
^^ Absolutely non sense ! As I don’t know what else to say to all of you, bashing on Uncinus’s wonderful blog, just like retarded.
Last year I was in Singapore. Lots of contrails. In 2010, I was in Paris. Lots of contrails. I lived in France for 6 years (2001-2007) beautiful skies in springs and summer, thick layers of cirrus and nimbostrattus in winter. Same as in the United States (1997) I’ve visited a lot of places on this planet, and the air is nearly the same everywhere, chemtrails or not.
Once, onboard a Boeing 767, we made a 45° turn to the left onroute to Bangkok, FL370 (37000ft) And I saw this HUGE contrail left behind us, miles away. I was on the very last row, on the left, with a clear view of the engines cowling #1. And God known how far I’m aware of how that engine works. There are NO spraying devices in that engine. There are no pipes that sprays any bioharazd or anything else from an hypothetic tank in the plane bring by pumps in those engines. Still, they make really nice swirling growing puffy white clouds named CONTRAILS !
Contrails man ! It’s water vapour. The water (H2O if you don’t know) is in the air. The temperature is arisen by the burning JET-A1 fuel from the engine nozzle. Just like a bowling water in your kitchen.
Have you ever tried to boil (ice) water with a General Electric CF6-80-C2-B7F ? NO of course ! So don’t say just because you can’t make contrails in your garden, contrails must be chemtrails…
You’ve seen too much movies. The best you can do now, is to entertain your brain with useful things.
And please ! If you have kids ! Please ! Don’t make them as retarded as you !
Have nice chemtrails !
You are a hero for responding to the conspiracy nuts as calmly and consistently as you have. It’s like arguing with a wall. The idea that something with a straightforward scientific explanation should instead be the result an enormous, complicated, sinister, and evil conspiracy involving thousands of aircraft, hundreds of thousands of ground crew, air traffic controllers, mechanics, aircraft manufacturers, the worldwide registration of aircraft, and on and on and on boggles the mind. These people have not only discarded Occam’s razor they’ve beaten it with a hammer until it’s a pile of shards.
Thanks for this site. I have quite a few friends that believe a lot of conspiracies (9-11 done by the US, flouride being used to poison us or for mind control, and chemtrails) its always nice to find a site that actually has the information easily laid out so I can debunk each claim as they bring it up.
I try to tell my “chemtrail” friends that THAT’S A LOT OF STUFF to make such a visible trail that is hundreds of miles long, to carry in one airplane! Doesn’t seem to phase them, though. My next try will be to give them some binoculars and notice that whatever it is, forms *behind* the plane, not exactly from it, as it would if it were being dumped directly from it. I’m sure they will have some explanation for that, though. I may have them dump some water, or some sawdust, from the top of some building, and see how long of a “trail” it makes….
Another thing: Several have said that as soon as they see those “chemtrails”, they get headaches, or have sinus problems, or whatever. But how long does it take for whatever is being sprayed to make it down 5 miles to the ground (30,000 + feet), and directly below where it was sprayed. Come on!
I enjoyed the pictures and the explanations!
There’s a useful graphic in this document to illustrate how long it would take http://www.geo.mtu.edu/~gbluth/Publications/bluth_2004_isvaas.pdf
The chemtrails advocates have settled onto a claim that what they are seeing equals geoengineering. However, geoengineering isn’t a local thing which would yield differing amounts of particulates at different locations worldwide. For geoengineering to be effective, a sustained global shiled would need to be established whch would tend to yield fairly consistent levels of ‘fallout’ worldwide. The varing amounts of aluminum, etc. being found in rain water are no different than those found over the last forty years. Likewise, geoengineering would be detectable by a decrease in the soar fraction transmitted through the atmosphere, as as happened before after vocanic eruptions. In fact, monitoring of volcanic eruptions and ensuing atmospheric transmission is what prompted the idea of geoengineering in the first place. This monitoring takes place worldwide at over 400 lcations by people f different nationalities, cultures, languages, etc. They don’t detect geoengineering’s sinature reduction of insolation, and you can easily access this data.
You can see a deeper discussion here:
http://metabunk.org/threads/111-Historical-Aerosol-Thickness-Debunks-quot-Chemtrails-are-Geoengineering-quot
10 years ago there were no chemtrails. Why now?
The conspiracy theory has been around for more than 10 years.
This website is a lie.
Uncinus, thank you very much for your diligent work in exposing the nonsense and patiently explaning the facts to the believers.
Uncinus,
I get what youre saying. You’ve provided answers to the many concerns and questions people have posed. I am, however, one of the ((sort of)) believers in the chemtrail theory, although, I dont claim to KNOW that there ARE chemtrails, for I have no proof. BUT, I dont have any proof of the contrary either.
Why do I not consider the info you’ve posted on this site proof of contrary to chemtrails? Well, the obvious reason is that I simply have to take your word for it, without being able to physically, in-person see and verify your claims. There’s always that. But, one of my real reasons for being unsure of your material proving the non-existence of chemtrails is the fact that there are many various types of planes that spray. Youve shown at least 5 varieties. What we can just about count on is that you are not aware or knowledgeable of EVERY single type of spraying aircraft. What your pictures DO prove is that there are several different types of planes that can be used for sprayin shit, and if you combine that with the fact that there most likely aircraft with spraying capabilities that your arent aware of, the proof gets fuzzy. I mean, if chemtrails really were a true phenomenon, that the government didnt want disclosed, they wouldnt tell you. What they would tell you is the information that youve presented to us here. So, im not sure if I can take this as proof.
Now, I’d like to bring up a comment made by another person here, regarding Operation LAC (The U.S. Army Chemical Corps operation which dispersed microscopic zinc cadmium sulfide particles into the atmosphere to determine the dispersion and geographic range of biological or chemical agents), to which you replied:
“And what does this have to do with the long white lines in the sky that people call ‘chemtrails’, but actual look exactly like contrails? Is there some evidence that they are spraying chemicals now? 60 years later?”.
So, let me get this straight…. Your asking “what does the fact that the Army Chemical Corps conducted test-runs on spraying biological agents into the atmosphere have to do with the theory that the government may be spraying biological agents into the atmosphere?” Hmmmmmmm I have no idea how those 2 concepts are related. Sorry for the sarcasm. lol But do you see what Im getting at? I
Honestly, Im not sure what to believe, but what I do believe is that if there is some kind of government conspiracy, theyre not going to make it to where some guy named Uncinus can just figure it all out. I mean, what do you think in regard to if there was an actual government conspiracy? Do you think you’d be able to rely on your aviation teachings, a few books, and some internet photos and forums to find the truth?
The point about LAC is that they did not make long whiet lines in the sky as contrails do – if they made any visible lines at all tehy almost certainly dissipated in a few seconds – which is exactly the OPPOSITE of what chemtrails are supposed to do.
You ask about other planes and spraying, and what if we jsut don’t know. That’ a fair enough question – but the fact is that we don’t see any evidence that such planes exist at all. There is no evidence whatsoever.
Spraying from aircraft is pretty much trivially easy – it’s been done since the 1920’s at least. But it always involves equipment and materials – where are they?
these “chemtrails” supposedly come from civilian airliners all over the world pretty much every day somewhere.
so how come no mechanics ever see the equipment? where are the truck taking the materials to the airports?
Is “it” in the fuel? OK – so why don’t chemtrail believers get fuel and analyse it? Aircraft fuel has fairly strict specifications as to what can be in it, and these are public – http://www.composuregraphics.com/compass/downloads/parker_pdfs/DefStan_91-91_issue_7_amd_1.pdf
Anything in fuel other than what is in that document is not only potentially evidence of chemtrails, but also evidence of a crime, since only approved materials are allowed to be used in civil aviation – including fuel.
Civil aviation is an immensly complicated business – aircraft performance is analysed to the n’th degree -pilots can calculate how much extra weight they are carrying by how long it takes to climb to altitude for example – you cant’ just add in 100kg of something that shouldn’t be there without it having some effect.
anything that gets in the way of aircraft performance gets noticed. Anything that gets in the way of profit gets noticed.
Everything fitted to an aircraft is required to be approved – to go through a long and arduous process of design and approval, and to be documented in maintenance manuals, parts lists and modification bulletins as appropriate – all of which adds up to money and is why supplying “bogus parts” can be a lucrative crime!
this is not an industry where you can jsut slip something into an aircraft and no-one will notice.
MikeC,
Much of your response if based on an assumption that hold certain opinions – that I dont. #1, I dont contend that the chemtrails come from civilian airlines. To be quite honest, I have no idea what kind of planes they come from. Uncinus pointed out several planes that arent civilian crafts, that are used to spray things in the air.
Fact: There exists planes that are used for spraying chemicals into the air
Fact: The Army Chemical Corps conducted tests on the effects of spraying biological agents into the air
Fact: The government has conducted many clandestine operations before
You mention that Operation LAC didnt cause white lines in the sky. How do you know that? I’d like to see proof of that. What I do know is that they sprayed these agents into the atmosphere, which means they were pretty high up. Due to the laws of physics, if you spray anything at a certain altitude, it will condense and form a cloud-like mass. Now, that being said, I ask again, how do you know Operation LAC didnt form white lines aka chemtrails?
The rest of your response is kind of irrelevant. Your reference to regulations and approvals is a moot point because theyre probably not using commercial aircrafts, but instead are using some variant of the spraying planes that Uncinus described. If some classified government agency obtained one of the planes Uncinus described, they could fully modify it without ANY type of regulation.
thatmaned said:
“Fact: There exists planes that are used for spraying chemicals into the air”
True, but nothing these planes are doing resembles the high altitude persistent contrails.
Your other facts are also true – but would that be enough for a jury’s “guilty” verdict?
Isn’t there something missing?
Yes, the crime is missing. Before you can sue someone (or a government) you have to know what you sue him for. Until then, his past is of no relevance.
You have to provide evidence that something sinister is going on. Nobody of the chemtrail proponents was able to do that so far.
1. Where is the evidence that there is something else than water ice and traces of soot in trails? (I hope you realize that ground samples don’t have much relevance.)
2. Where is the evidence that the well established knowledge about formation and properties of contrails is wrong? If it isn’t, all variations of contrails can be explained, so there is no visual method of distinguish chemtrails from contrails.
Your main argument seems to be: “You can’t know all secrets therefore your explanations are insufficient to find the truth”.
The truth is that there is no evidence of any “hidden truth” that needs to be searched for. If you have that evidence, we will be happy to look at it.
In my 1st comment on this site, I said I have no proof. But, I also have no proof of the contrary. I do have evidence. But, evidence is not proof. My evidence is a) the activity i see on the sky b) there are planes that spray chemicals c) the government has performed test runs of the exact activity that chemtrail theorists contend is happening.
When you combine those 3 pieces of evidence with the fact that the government has run clandestine operations before, its not as much of a far-fetched idea as people make it seem. I’m very rational, analytical, and critical. And I think there may be some truth to the chem-trail theory.
As you say I have no proof that there exists chem-trail conspiracies, you have no proof of its non existence. Youre simply spewing what you were told. Im sure youve never actually seen one of the planes Unicnus mentioned or verified that it is indeed just water. Have you yourself verified this in-person? If not, then you are simply regurgitating info that was given to you. Youre actually making the conspirators job easier – if there are conspirators.
The primary point of this site is that “the activity you see in the sky” looks just like contrails.
So if it looks just like contrails, why suspect it is not?
And what is your evidence for c)? Can you provide 1) a quote from a chemtrail theorist contenting something in particular, and 2) a description of a government test run that matches that exactly.
Uncinus ( Mick ) is not even one person, its probably a small office of people who have given up on their Integrity, their Honesty, their very Truth and Self-hood…probably for money and power. We should not be angry at these people, we should pray for them. Whether these people believe that their actions are for the greater good or not, one thing is certain. The plain, simple, obvious truth will never stand for itself on this website. Yes it is Plain and Simple and Obvious that a small group of increasingly threatened cabal-elite understand two things: 1 The Sun is The Fundamental force that influences DNA change and development (evolution). and 2 that Aluminum is particularly effective in blocking out and difracting natural sunlight and also it is particularly damaging to the Pineal Gland -represented by the Pinecone Symbol throughout history -. I encourage all readers to personally pursue your own information and stance on the truth. We need to take back our fundamental freedom of calling it like it is. If you saw an amazing and beautiful UFO land in your back yard would you call the local air force base and ask them what to do? or do you walk out there and look for yourself?… after all… it landed in your back yard. – this is like the information thats coming to us these days, the word apocalypse means the unveilling of illusion and the revelation of the truth. There is no point in referring to Uncinus (mick) – or any of the disinformation riddled throughout this whole fucking site as a point of authority. You can see time and again that this source will only spin, lie, and belittle…… Find out for yourself. know your truth, forgive those who are so lost in the painful illusion of separation.
Ehm anonymous, dude, everybody knows who Mick is. It is not a secret. He is a person. You can build you neat little theory about this site, but 2 minutes of reading would prove you wrong. And that’s exactly the problem: you don’t even take 2 minutes of research into what you are saying. Not into Mick West, not into chemtrails.
On the other hand, you just might be a disinformant, trying to keep the chemtrails theory alive for political and financial gain. How does that sound for you?
Uncinus,
You ask, since the lines in the sky look like contrails, why not conclude that thats what they are? The problem is, they also look like chem-trails. I honestly dont know. I dont know what to believe. But the answers given here arent good enough for me to completely dismiss the chemtrail possibility.
In regard to Operation LAC, you ask me to provide a quote from a chemtrail theorist stating something in particular and a description of a government test that matches that exactly. OK, chemtrail theorists are in no way unified in opinion about the goal or purpose or even the method of the spraying. But, one thing they all say is “there are planes purposely spraying chemicals into the air, and they are clandestinely sanctioned to do so with some type of bio-reactive goal”.
Now you want a description of a government test that matches that?
“During the 1950s and 1960s, the U.S. Army conducted atmospheric dispersion tests in many American cities using fluorescent particles of zinc cadmium sulfide (ZnCdS) to develop and verify meteorological models to estimate the dispersal of aerosols. Upon learning of the tests, many citizens and some public health officials in the affected cities raised concerns about the health consequences of the tests”
This came from a book called “Toxicologic Assessment of the Army’s Zinc Cadmium Sulfide Dispersion Tests”. The government has been working on the science of dispersing bioreactive chemicals in the air for over 60 years. Do you think they just stopped? Or do you think the reasearch has become a lot more sophisticated and classified? I believe the latter. It these operations began in the 1950s, then of course by now the government has probably perfected it and the ability to disguise it. Hell, even in the 1950s people were speaking out against those tests, so the government knew then that it would either have to completely scrap that project OR make it unnoticeable and classified.
Sorry but what do you think a chemtrail looks like and why do you think that?
But why disguise it as massive white lines that literally anyone with eyes can see?
I think a chemtrail looks like a contrail, except the agents that are “condensing” in a chemtrail are bio-reactive. This may be a matter of semantics, but the term contrail only refers to the physical properties of the trail and not the chemical composition. The word “contrail” is short for “condensation trail”. Just about any gaseous element can condense, and thus form a contrail. What we are saying – or at least what I am saying – is that the contrails that are being spewed into the air have a purpose that is not being disclosed. And we believe that there may be chemical agents in those contrails to facilitate that purpose.
Getting back to your question of what does a chemtrail look like. The only thing that distinguishes a chemtrail from a contrail is the chemical make up of the gas or vapor that is condensing. A chemtrail, in this respect, IS A CONTRAIL, but with bio-reactive agents.
Saying “no, theyre contrails” doesnt even address the argument. If anything, you guys that say “theyre contrails” should be wearing the tin foil hats, because no one’s denying that they are trails of condensed gas. We’re saying theyre contrails with a bio-reactive chemical composition.
So, a “chemtrail” looks and behaves exactly like a contrail? No measurable difference at all?
Actually that’s impossible.
Over 99.9% of the water in a persistent spreading contrail comes from the atmosphere, and not from the plane? All the exhaust does is temporarily raise the humidity so the contrail can form, then ambient humidity makes the ice crystals grow.
Ref: http://ciresweb.colorado.edu/science/groups/pielke/classes/atoc7500/knollenberg72.pdf
If it were not water, then the trail would rapidly dissipate.
Captfitch says:
March 20, 2013 at 11:09 am
“But why disguise it as massive white lines that literally anyone with eyes can see?”
Answer: Anything sprayed at super high altitudes will condense (due to temperature) and form a trail. There may be no way around that. Planes could fly lower, but it would definitely alert the public if there were planes flying at low altitudes overhead. So, they disguise the trails by having them mimic harmless contrails.
That way, people like Uncinus can easily offer explanations of what they are. Its kind of like chemical espionage – if you will. With the case of a spy, who infiltrates a government agency, his co-workers, managers, and even family members are always entirely convinced, and would even vouch, that the person who is a spy is just a harmless employee. People with years of experience are fooled. Agencies with very strict background screenings and regulations are infiltrated. Governments are excellent at fooling the most adept people.
Still no evidence that contrails are anything other than contrails.
LAC “sprayed” zinc-cadmium sulphate -we know that did not cause long white lines in eth skies because there is video of ehat it looks like from the similar British experiments – yuo can see them on youtube – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H51BTEmZoNw – you can see the ZCS being “sprayed” – it disperses very quickly indeed.
If you do not beleive civilian aircraft are involved, then how do you explain the number of “chemtrails” seen, and the FACT that other peole DO see them being “sprayed” from civilian aircraft?
There are “chemtrail” reports from all over the world – from many places where US or NATO military aircraft are rarely if ever seen and which have very little in the way of airforces or secret agencies themselves.
What “bio-reactive agents”?
The problem with that reasoning is now you have to go through life being suspicious of literally everything. My apples looks and behaves like a regular apple but it may just be a poison apple. Can’t eat that! I don’t have any real evidence that it’s poisoned but it could be and to make it tricky they made it look, taste and smell like a regular apple. And anyone who says it’s probably safe either poisoned it or works for the poisoners.
Captfitch says:
“The problem with that reasoning is now you have to go through life being suspicious of literally everything. My apples looks and behaves like a regular apple but it may just be a poison apple”
You make a good point there. But its not that simple. I can physically touch and examine an apple. I cant at all examine the chemical composition of the condensation that’s 30,000 feet in the air. Also, the government has never, to my knowledge, conducted tests on contaminating or altering apples, with the goal of gaining knowledge of how to apply that apple contamination to biological warfare. Operation LAC was just that – it was an operation with the goal of gaining knowledge of the dispersion and geographic range of biological or chemical agents, and how to apply that to biowarfare.
There’s more evidence and more lack of information that lends to the chemtrail theory, than there is for the poison apple theory. Although, I do think the apples we buy at grocery stores are altered and made so that we cant plant the seeds of that same apple. We have to go back and buy the seeds or buy another apple. Its all profit based, which ties into my reasoning for believing the possibility of chemtrail theories. There could be some agricultural impact of chemtrails that the government benefits from. The government allows and even encourages activities that promote profit at the expense of the populace. There may be some effect on agriculture that, in the long run, results in people having to spend more money on products. Thats why Monsanto is allowed to produce its geneticly restricted agriculture – because it makes for bigger profits, even though it cripples private, local, and subsistence agriculture.
Uncinus (Mick) says:
“So, a “chemtrail” looks and behaves exactly like a contrail? No measurable difference at all?”
Im sure there is a measurable difference in mass and density between ANY 2 chemical compositions. But, that difference gets blurred when its 30,000 feet in the air. As for contrails being 99.9% atmospheric water, thats false. Much of it comes from the vapor in the exhaust of the plane. Your percentage is a bit exaggerated. But, correct me if i’m wrong, but at certain altitudes, pretty much anything thats sprayed will condense. Youre saying if its not water, it will dissipate quickly. So, are there no other chemicals that disperse at the same pace or even less rapidly than water? Because thats basically what youre saying.
You guys are providing a lot of knowledge, though.
Mike C,
I see that the plane in the video didnt leave much of a trail. But it was at a low altitude. If this is a secret conspiracy, they cant fly that low. At that altitude, someone would see and even video record planes dumping shit on them.
Ed, you’re almost there…..
If you think about that fuel dump pic, he is dumping literally thousands of pounds of material (fuel) and within a few minutes it dissipates, becoming invisible. In order to dump enough material to be visible at 30000 feet he would have to carry millions of pounds of material Or….. The visibility is a result of the process of adding a small amount of water and particulates to an already “soaked” but invisible environment.
How could he ever carry enough material to be visible?
thatmaned wrote:
“I see that the plane in the video didnt leave much of a trail. But it was at a low altitude. If this is a secret conspiracy, they cant fly that low. At that altitude, someone would see and even video record planes dumping shit on them.”
The point is that “chemtrails” ARE highly visible even though they ARE “sprayed” at high altitude.
This trail looks nothing like the purported “chemtrails – and would not even if “sprayed” at high altitude.
Remember ths is in answer to your question of how I know that the LAC “spraying” did not make long white lines in the skies.
the ability and knowledge to “spray stuff” from aircraft has existed since at least the 1920’s – it is not in question. What is in question is why peole think ther is some secret programme going on now despite the complete and utter lack of verifiable evidence that any such programme is hapening.
There are no known aircraft with modifications to do this, it would be illegal in most states anyway – both for air quality reasons and also because using unapproved modifications or tampered fuel on civil aircraft is illegal – and despite what you may believe at least the vast majority of reported “chemtrails” do come from civil aircraft – all around the world.
Mechanics all over the world would know about any systems fitted to a/c – if only because we (I asm a mechanic) want to know all about every system on the a/c we work on because we are curious! ther eaer no trucks brinign strange materials to airports, no secret docking bays, no seperate fuel supply systems for “chemtrail aircraft” that “non-chemtrail aircraft” can’t use, etc.
there simply is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that this conspiracy actually exists – other than some people saying it does!
thatmaned,
You wrote:
“Much of your response if based on an assumption that hold certain opinions – that I dont. #1, I dont contend that the chemtrails come from civilian airlines. To be quite honest, I have no idea what kind of planes they come from. Uncinus pointed out several planes that arent civilian crafts, that are used to spray things in the air.”
That has all changed. Anybody can find out the identity of these planes, and have a copy documenting the event and WHO was doing it.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=284544151676326&set=pb.100003622311420.-2207520000.1363782702&type=3&theater#!/pages/Skydentify-Chemtrails-Who-in-the-world-is-spraying/400145150082028
Captfitch says:
“The visibility is a result of the process of adding a small amount of water and particulates to an already “soaked” but invisible environment”
Would visibility be a result of adding a small amount of water+bromacil and particles to an already soaked environment? Im not a chemist, nor have I ever even taken a chemistry class, so there could be shit that im missing here. But, youre saying water creates the trail. Added water, that is. So, wouldnt added water+N chemical also create a trail? Especially if N chemical is of the same viscocity and physically behaves like water?
By chemical N, I just mean any chemical. And I use bromacil for the sake of argument. Who knows chemical theyre using.
I dont know. I do kinda see where u guys are comming from, though. I just cant say “Ok, fuck it, I know for a fact that there are no planes intentionally spraying shit over us”. There’s just too much history, motive, and action that suggests the possibility.
Well none of us can we know for a fact. I kind of think it would be cool if some super secret operation was going on and it’s completely visible but most people ignore it! Or it’s some part in a grand plan to do something great…. But the science and facts and lack of any real evidence prevents me from believing. I know my current plane and my past planes in and out. They may seem so complex but are actually simple combinations of machines in airplane form. Nothing can be “hidden” or added. Nothing can be sprayed without me knowing it.
I just don’t understand why this fact can be ignored by so many. They all think we only know the cockpit or something.
Right. Right. But you dont work for the government. Youre not involved. So of course your planes arent secretly fitted with some shit you dont know about. All it takes is for what ever agency to take a regular plane and modify it, fly it, and use it. Without you knowing.
Ok, yes, that is possible but I still hang my hat on one, complex argument: All aircraft extract, compress and then dump outside air into the cabin, unfiltered as they fly. The air delivered to the cabin is dumped out at a fairly rapid rate and replaced with new air over and over during a flight. A small amount is recycled but not very much. IF there was a spray campaign going on it would have to be highly concentrated at altitude to cause any effect at ground level. All of the planes flying around in or near the contrails would be exposed to that spray and the occupants would be exposed to highly concentrated doses. That said, one would expect pilots (who would have the highest exposures) to have the the greatest symptoms but pilots, as a group, are generally much healthier than the overall population and are checked every six months to a year. Why are we so healthy?
Why should we believe something nobody ever put forth any evidence for? Why should we believe that trails that look and behave just like contrails are anything other than, well, contrails? Scepticism of government should not override scepticism.
Thatmaned wrote:
“ll it takes is for what ever agency to take a regular plane and modify it, fly it, and use it. Without you knowing.”
I have worked for a national aviation regulatory agency, and as a quality assurance engineer for 2 airlines. No such thing could happen.
civil aviation is very complex and highly refulated activity – modifications to aircraft have to be approved by people with appropriate qualifications and approvals. then they have to be installed by other people with different qualifications and approvals, and maintaned by them too.
Mechanics crawl all over aircraft – there is no place that is immune from inspection – the whole structure has to be maintained – even awkwards place underneath electronic racks or in hard to get corners of the fuselage, the wing tips, the top of the vertical stabiliser, and absolutely everywhere else have to be visually inspected every now and then.
If “strangers” come into a hanger to do something on the aircraft then everyone wants to know what’s going on – what has been fitted, who are they, etc – just like any other workplace really.
Everything on the aircraft has to be in the parts list, and all the maintenance has to be documented in the maintenance manual or modificatin bulletins.
If you do not work in aviation you will not appreciate this complexity – the civil law requirements do not allow anything else – it is a crime to fit unapproved parts – “bogus parts”, it is a crime to maintain aircraft to anything othe than approved documentation, it is a crime to use unapproved materials on an aircraft (eg doctored fuel) – mechanics, engineers, pilots, planners, loadmasters, refuelers – all these people are trained in these concepts.
Of course people are jsut people and make mistakes – but for “chemtrails” to be real there needs to be an organised effort to get around all this.
And there is no evidence of any such activity – it is completely and utterly missing – like all the other evidence that should be there.
I wote: “No such thing could happen.”
Let me rephrase that – no such thing could happen without leaving some sort of credible evidence.
Dude, have you ever crawled all over a drone or a stealth bomber? The more classified the plane, the less people there are with access to them. There’s classified planes that have only been seen by those who have the appropriate clearance – shit that you have no idea even exists. So, the whole concept of “the civil law requirements do not allow anything else – it is a crime to fit unapproved parts – ‘bogus parts’, it is a crime to maintain aircraft to anything othe than approved documentation, it is a crime to use unapproved materials on an aircraft (eg doctored fuel) – mechanics, engineers, pilots, planners, loadmasters, refuelers – all these people are trained in these concepts” doesnt apply to highly classified government operations and technology.
What you are saying is that the government wouldnt authorize anything that violates any law or code that the government imposes on regular civilians. Thats absurd. Civilian activity is regulated by all the inspection and approval that you refer to. Classified government activity is not. The war the US govmnt declared on Iraq, and the subsequent actions, violated a SHIT LOAD of congressional and international laws. The Tuskeegee expirement violated a shit load of laws and regulations. The act of holding a prisoner in whats called “black sites”, without due process, is a violation of constitutional and fundamental laws (Or, at least it was before the patriot act). All of these things has happened or is happening. And thats just what we’ve found out about.
So, when you tell me that the government cant do something because its against the law, excuse my pointing out how ridiculous that sounds.