Brief Summary:
- Samples of water were collected in August 2007, in Stamps Arkansas, by leaving some bowls outside for a month
- The resultant dirty water was tested by KSLA and was found to have the same amount of barium in it as most municipal tap water.
- The reporter misunderstood the results, and said there was a lot of Barium
- The reporter now admits he was mistaken, and that he found no evidence for chemtrails
Some conspiracy theorists think that persistent spreading contrails indicate some kind of deliberate aerial spraying, probably by the government. They speculate as to what could be in these trails, and one of the most common things they claim is barium.
Some people are so obsessed by this idea that they have rainwater tested to see if it has barium in it. They usually find some, and then trumpet this as evidence that their theory is correct.
Unfortunately they are wrong. I’ll explain why, but first, some basic science.
What is Barium?
Barium is a metal, like calcium. You never find it in its metal form (outside of a lab), as it oxidizes rapidly in the air. Instead you’ll find compounds, usually barium sulfate or barium carbonate. Barium compounds are used in the plastics, rubber, electronics and textile industries, in ceramic glazes and enamels, in glass-making, brick-making and paper-making, as a lubricant additive, in pharmaceuticals and cosmetics, in case-hardening of steel and in the oil and gas industry as a wetting agent for drilling mud. Barium in water comes primarily from natural sources as it is present as a trace element in both igneous and sedimentary rocks. Barium is generally present in air in particulate form as a result of industrial emissions, particularly from combustion of coal and diesel oil and waste incineration.
µ and Parts Per …
When you measure the concentration of a substance in water, you can express it in various ways. You have to pay attention to units when converting from one way to another.
A liter of water weighs 1 kilogram, which is 1000 grams.
A milligram is 1/1000th (a thousandth) of a gram. 1mg = 1 milligram = 0.001g
A microgram is 1/1000000 (a millionth) of a gram. 1ug = 1µg = 1 microgram
Note that last line, because it’s important. The symbol µ is the greek letter “mu”. In measuring, it’s used to mean “micro”, or “millionth”. (To type µ, hold down the Alt key, type 230 on the numeric keypad, and then release the Alt key). Since it’s difficult to type, it’s often written using the letter “u”. Make sure you understand the difference between a milligram (mg, 1/1000th or a gram) and a microgram (µg, ug, 1/1000000th of a gram). A milligram is thousandth, not a millionth. It’s a little confusing sometimes.
A microgram is a millionth of a gram, so it’s a billionth of a kilogram. Since there are 1000 grams in a kilogram, and 1,000,000 micrograms in a gram, there are 1,000,000,000 µg in a kilogram. All this is basic high school science.
Concentration in water is measured as ppm, ppb, g/L, mg/L, µg/L. These are parts per million, parts per billion, grams per liter, milligrams per liter and micrograms per liter. We can convert between these easily:
1 ppm = 1 mg/L = 1000 ppb = 1000 µg/L
1 ppb = 1 µg/L = 0.001 ppm = 0.001 mg/L
(remember that 1 Liter is 1000 grams, so 1 mg in one liter is a thousandth of a gram in one thousand grams, or 1 part in a million).
Chemtrail claims
This video is very popular right now. Claiming that water was analyzed and found to have barium in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okB-489l6MI
The video was taken in Stamps, Arkansas, which is not entirely surprising as that’s in a region of the US the might be renamed “Contrail Alley”. It’s at the intersection of the cross country routes between the West Coast, and the major airport in Atlanta, Orlando and Jacksonville. Stamps is midway between the two major regional VORs (Texarkana and El Dorado), right next to the major East-West airway Victor V278, and on the edge of a MOA that traffic has to skirt occasionally. It’s also directly below the Atlanta to Dallas, San Antonio to New York and Houston to Chicago flight routes. On just ONE of these routes (Atlanta to Dallas) there is a scheduled commuter flight, directly overhead, at contrail altitude every 15 minutes! The same frequency of flights is found on the Houston-Chicago route, which crosses at right angles almost exactly overhead. Hence, when the weather is right, it is inevitable that you will see contrails in a grid pattern, “a giant checkerboard”. See this Google Earth file: airlines-over-stamps.kmz
But back to the video. It shows a jar of dirty water (collected 9/1/2007), which was collected by Bill Nichols. He’s posted some comments on the YouTube video describing how he collected the water:
it was rainwater. i collected it in two separate bowls on the hood of a pickup truck in my backyard. we are 25 miles from the nearest interstate. this is a very poor county, the only industry is chickens, logging , farming, a little oil—no coal burners or anything like that. i wasn’t looking for attention. i was looking for answers, ksla said they would pay to get it tested. i dropped it off, and they asked my opinion
i put 2 clean bowls there specifically because i wanted to catch what was falling. i don’t recall exactly when i put the bowls there, but they were there for about a month before i contacted ksla. the goo that i caught was full of barium. have a cool day!
Pause for a second, and consider if you left a bowl out for the month of August in rural Arkansas, what would you expect to find in it after a month? Some dirty water? Perhaps a little dust? What’s dust made of outdoor? Dirt, dried topsoil. What would you expect to find in the dirt in Arkansas – one of the richest sources of barium in the US? You’d expect a bit of Barium – but did they actually find any more than you’d get in tap water?
This dirty water was tested, the test results are available in full here. You can also see the results in the video, at around 00:55 to 00:59. Here they are pieced together.
And just to be clear, here’s a closeup of the results, and the units:
That’s quite straightforward right? Barium found at 68.8 µg/L. That’s 68.8 parts per billion. Now listen to the audio at that precise point (also transcribed on the KSLA web site):
“The results: a high level of barium, 6.8 parts per million (ppm), more than three times the toxic level set by the EPA”.
Immediately you can see something is wrong here. it’s 68.8, not 6.8, and it’s not parts per million, it’s parts per billion. So it’s actually 0.0688 parts per million.
And what of “three times the toxic level set by the EPA”? They are referring to the EPA Limits, as quoted by the CDC:
“The EPA has set a limit of 2.0 milligrams of barium per liter of drinking water (2.0 mg/L), which is the same as 2 ppm [parts per million].”
So the EPA limit is 2 ppm (2000 µg/L), and the tests actually found 0.0688 ppm (68.8 µg/L), just 3.4% of the allowable limit.
That limit’s not really a “toxic level” either. There’s no evidence that it would be toxic even at that level (which, remember, is 29 times higher than what was actually found). The world health organization has set a drinking water level of 7 ppm after doing studies into the health effects of barium.
Barium has always been in water
The WHO also reported on the barium levels in drinking water (meaning, from a tap, not some dirty puddle) and they found:
“In a study of water supplies of cities in the USA, a median value of 43 μg/litre was reported; in 94% of all determinations, the concentrations found were below 100µg/litre (IPCS, 1990)“
So the average was 43 µg/L, but most were below 100µg/L. This means the amount of Barium found in this supposed chemtrail residue was about the same as was found in the municipal water supplies in the US, back in 1990. This is pretty low, it varies with geography based on the type of rocks in the aquifer. In Tuscany, Italy, the Barium in drinking water was around 1000µg/L (1ppm), high, but still within safe limits.
The amount of barium will also vary based on the weather. Very heavy rains will leach more barium out into the groundwater. So you’d expect more barium after very rainy seasons. This is actually what you find if you look at the historical records in California (which has very uneven annual rainfall). You see spikes in barium whenever there is a wet year after a dry year. Recent years like these are 1991, 1995, 1998 and 2004 (2001 and 2003 also spiked to a lesser extent). The expected peaks were confirmed by the results of Rosalind Peterson at California Skywatch.
So what’s going on here? Chemtrail theorists are constantly claiming that “chemtrails” are made of barium, and that it’s affecting our health. But whenever water is tested, it is found to have perfectly normal levels of barium, which vary as expected based on the rainfall. In the cases where they claim it’s got an unusual amount, this is just a misunderstanding of the units and limits involved.
Yes, there is barium in the drinking water, there always has been, and always will be. Trace amounts, mostly from the environment and some industrial pollution. It’s a very small amount, and not dangerous. There is no evidence to suggest it has anything to do with “chemtrails.”
Update #1: 5/2/2009
Jeff Ferrall, the reporter in the story now says:
https://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/comment-page-8/#comment-23164
Yes, I did make corrections to my first report, which originally aired almost 2-years ago now… after quickly realizing my very embarrassing mistake. I was not happy with myself. Unfortunately, the first version of my report got out to the internet before I could make the correction(s), and the wrong version is shown repeatedly.
…
My feeling is, and maybe you’d agree, that if such aerosol mixes were created and loaded into jets with either a separate/independent dispersal method other than the exhaust, or actually in the fuel itself… somewhere, somehow, you’d expect someone to talk. I have not heard that yet.
…
I also interviewed the scientist who originally patented what some believe was a precursor to so-called chemtrail technology. He’s a very kind, helpful man who could not have been more helpful. He says he knows nothing about any such conspiracy.
There’s also a mention of this story In Skeptical Enquirer magazine:
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/curious_contrails_death_from_the_sky/
Update#2: 3/14/2010
More people make the same mistake. This time someone in Austrailia, and the story was picked up by a Los Angeles environmentalist. Again mg is confused with µg, making the results 1000 times as high:
On the conspiracy web site, ATS, the question was asked if people remembered contrails persisting. The majority did.
How do you reconcile your recollection against their recollection.
And it’s not just a couple of black and white photos, it’s hundreds.
Can you say where you grew up? What year did you first notice persistent contrails?
Another point singled not, and clearly not the important one.. doing what you do best, blogging this chat up with stupid points as to avoid people actually seeing the relative ones, unless they have a few years of spare time to filter them all out..
You may be getting and feeling old.. but that is your problem..
I’m talking about 21 year olds, people who should be at the height of their fitness having expressed these illnesses and feelings, not old people complaining ‘it’s not like it used to be’…
As for statistics of health around the world, you are wasting my time and thought to correct you, but the figures are relative to the medicine and hygiene that is improving, nothing else! As ifyou didn’t know that already.. come on, if you want to debate, do it with some respect for that debate and not stupid comments singling out the non important facts.
Come on Uncinus, try lending your so called expertise and determined ideals to the other side, what if you’re wrong?
What would you do?
How would you go about explaining to your kids that you backed the wrong side for much of your life, ruining their chances of natural world?
[Admin: duplicate comment removed]
I’m sorry, but why don’t you think it’s important if contrails persisted or not in the past?
Back at you AU, what if he’s NOT wrong?? Are you prepared to admit you got it all wrong if Uncinus and the rest on this site are correct?
Think about it?
[Admin: Duplicate comment removed – user placed in moderation queue. Comment was just cut and paste of previous comment, repeated three times]
Deja Vu???
An Echo???
Perhaps it would help RU, if you stated the point which you are trying to get over.
Uncinus, you don’t have to remove my comments, saying they are duplicates… I am done with you all here.
Paranoid much?
All Uncinus is doing is removing all the stuff you’re repeating. You double posted (now triple posted) that post.
Rather hypocritically too. You’re the one avoiding the point that contrails persist and posting lots of spam to avoid it.
I suspect that whoever was posting those duplicate comments simply considers this site to be an enemy operation, and hence “fair game” for disruption. That’s rather unfortunate, as I’m quite willing to have a sensible discussion about the facts, should he want to actually make a case. I am a little bemused how no matter which point I tried to answer it was all “irrelevant”.
I dunno, but I think we just witnessed how an open mind deals with new information.
If he was blocked he’s in good company. I’m blocked from the FB WITWATS page for asking about the misleading MT Shasta pond water results.
Just to clarify, I didn’t block him, just his comments are flagged for moderation. I deleted the duplicate comments, and then he left.
She’ll doubtless scuttle back to her pals saying she was prevented from exposing the ‘truth’, choosing to interpret the appropriate action of Uncinus as ‘being blocked’, and ‘being blocked’ as validation.
Luckily, they can believe what they want without it ever effecting the world at large. Remember wurh a smile that the number globally who fall for this hoax is thankfully vanishingly small.
As a proportion of the total population, probably. But it’s still probably in the thousands in the US alone (probably only a hundred or so really hard-core enthusiasts).
Consider how many 9/11 truthers there are. A goodly portion of them are of the “open-minded” variety that believe anything of this nature. Take “We are Change” for example – ostensibly a 9/11 movement, but HEAVILY into chemtrails:
http://wacla.org/category/chemtrails/
Truther communities tend to attract people who don’t like having their beliefs questioned – so there’s a mutual non-questioning acceptance of their peers beliefs. Here’s a quote from a Truther meeting from the book “The Great Derangement”
So it is a very insular movement.
As a (very) rough estimate, around half a billion people are connected to Facebook
WITWATS FB page has just over 10,000 likes, that is about 1/50,000th of the FB population,
By contrast, those effin Spice Girls,a manufactured British pop group who disbanded 10 years ago, have 100,000 likes.
TBH, I think I prefer the “Chemtrails” to a Spice Girl reunion.
Yes, it’s proportionally small. But it’s still 10,000 people. And Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth has 76,000 likes. Even though they are outweighed by the overall population, that’s still a critical mass.
I recall skies being exactly like they are now – blue, white, and with contrails.
That is a fact too – back to the 1960’s at least.
WW2 bomber pilots apparently recollected skies full of contrails ..AFAIK that is a fac.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry said contrails existed in 1940 when he wrote about them in “Flight to Arras” – still available – I guess since he was killed in 1944 we cant’ ask him, but since you think he lied, what is your evidence for his dishonesty 50 years before the “chemtrail programmes” even started??
Lived near Abbotsinch (now Glasgow Airport) and Renfrew Airport (now closed and built over).
The planes were DC3s, Vickers Viscounts and Vanguards. Then came BAC 1-11, Tridents and the occasional Caravelle when Abbotsinch expanded and was renamed as Glasgow Airport
Most were BEA and Aer Lingus,
The international traffic used Prestwick down near Ayr.
Just like you I remember blue skies with clouds and the odd jet trail.
A MUST WATCH … Scientists and authors, and ACTUAL reliable sources gathered together and informing you about the FACTS! The facts that CHEMTRAILS DO EXIST AND ARE KILLING OUR PLANET.
TAKE THE TIME TO WATCH THIS INFORMATIVE AND FACT FILLED DOCUMENTARY.
LINKS TO ALL 7 PART:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg8gt-iY9pc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvOcLu7Z4sM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-dSHJ7Nw6o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ICAlptKJwk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snotJpuUdug&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wweqcz5_XVs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRah07mcabI&feature=related
How do people come here, thinking it’s the first time this has been brought up?
Look here: https://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/
and also: http://metabunk.org/threads/249-A-Conversation-With-Dr.-Lenny-Thyme-from-quot-What-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-quot
WITWATS said:
“… reliable sources gathered together …”
Thanks for making the effort with the links, but this film was discussed up and down, inside out in this blog’s article here:
https://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/
You might also want to have a look at the other articles, most of them treating claims that come up in the film in more detail.
I think there’s a steady stream of people, often young people, who are exposed to the myth for the first time, and immediately start searching for “evidence”. They find it, gleefully post it, then move on to the next bit.
I try to make my debunks as accessible as possible, but of course wither they don’t look, or they ignore it because I’m a “debunker”.
Debunking is effectively just judicious application of the Scientific Method. If they don’t like debunking, they don’t like science.
I’m reminded of Richard Dawkins retelling of a famous quote by the editor of New Scientist magazine; someone asked the Editor, “what is your philosophy at New Scientist?” He answered “our philosophy at the New Scientist is this: Science is interesting; if you don’t agree, you can fuck off.”
http://evolutionmatters.blogspot.com/2007/05/science-is-interesting-if-you-dont.html
I cannot believe this site can use the word ‘science’ in the title/address. I’ve read a lot of it, and clearly see what’s going on here, as do any of the other people with half a brain. This is not even close to being a reference site for truthful information, apart from those stupid enough to come and attempt to disclose the obvious information who are then insulted by being referred to as ‘she’, or other ridiculous character assassinations.
I read the last comments prior to the bunch stooges that seem to be here trying hard to convince everyone that Chemtrails do not exist and that contrails like we see today have been around for decades, (laughable!), then the next twat, (probably the same person, although maybe not as there are many of your types around), comes along trying to discredit the comments with personally attacking the individuals, again a laughable way of attempting debate.
IT’S SO OBVIOUS TO ANYONE WHO ISN’T A PAID CONTRACTOR OF THIS SITE THAT YOU ARE ALL ATTEMPTING TO DISGUISE THE FACT THAT THERE IS A CHEMTRAIL PROGRAM!
If you think you are fooling anyone with your absolutely ridiculous so called ‘debunks’ then be sure you are only wasting your time.
Please point out the things that are wrong, and I will correct them.
As my alias suggests, you think you are the master of creating so called ‘reasonable doubt’, and then your other comrades/alter egos then lay down the support ammunition to then disregard great and useful comments moving the communication her along at a pace that dilutes the important points identified by all those honestly concerned citizens that have stupidly bothered to write anything here.
You know what’s wrong and you know you are full of it, or just possibly as stupid as the majority of people who are unaware of the actual seriousness of this and the implications it will pose, affecting us all.
This site has already served it’s minor purpose of added distraction for the past FOUR years, while the Chemtrail program continues and even steps up in alignment with the NWO’s so called master plans.
As far as an example to your so called debunks. You summarize the points made in any factual and REAL info out there, or ridicule the persons behind them, you and your other monkeys, then go about ‘debunking the wrong and minor facts, ignoring the obvious and important/unbunkable ones!
Trust me they will fail, and/or f#@! you in the @#! too!
So as my colleague asked the other day but you didn’t print here, as too afraid to address the obvious:
Who actually pays for this site???
As already stated. I, Mick West, pay for the site.
I take it you agree with everything on this site, as you can’t point to anything specific wrong with it.
What are “the obvious and important/unbunkable ones”
Yeah, who funds this site??? We all know here but wondering if you have the balls to admit it..? Look how no-one except for the paid contractors for this site and random unaware newbies actually comment anymore. So answer the question guys.. Who’s your daddy?
I fund it. It’s not a lot, as it’s on a shared server.
This is your final warning. Stop using multiple aliases, or I will have to ban you.
I’ll take the time to point out your bull#@!t one day soon enough, when I’m incredibly bored.. til then keep believing you’re fooling the masses… NOT!
“The greatest trick the devil ever pulled off was convincing everyone he didn’t exist….”
The above user, Johnny Cochran/Contrai-scams/Another Uncinus. Has been placed in moderation for using multiple aliases. Any posts by him using any alias other than Johnny Cochran will result in a ban.
Thank you for your hard work.
Thank you for your willingness to take the abuse!
Eat well, sleep well, maintain your health and keep up the good fight.
Good science WILL prevail!
@ Phil V.
I wish I was as sure about that as you are. But, from what I have witnessed on another site (godlike productions), I’m not as confident that “good science” even matters anymore. It seems to be completely removed from the equation in favor of ignorant assumption and speculation.
There is absolutely no way that these “true believers” will EVER believe that the trails in the sky are contrails. They believe the trails are part of “geoengineering” and anyone who disagrees, is in on it.
It’s going to get worse before it gets any better.
Anyone who disagrees with these folks, is their enemy. They have made this perfectly clear.
Good luck to everyone who actually cares about the truth.
Sorry, I’m not sure where this was originally brought up so not entirely sure of the best place to submit it. It might even be worth starting a new topic of discussion on it to keep track of it.
But anyway, somewhere on here someone mentioned action being taken by residents of New Jersey in an attempt to stop “chemtrails” being sprayed over them. The meeting they had was on the 6th. It went very well for them.
Here’s the site where it appears to originate from -> http://www.longislandskywatch.com/
It appears that it’s got to go through a few more levels first, but I think it’s interesting because if they do put it in place then it means people are going to start getting real answers. Imagine that’s in place and planes are still laying persistent contrails. The people will moan that they can’t do it anymore because of this law, yet they will be told that no one is breaking the law because those planes aren’t doing anything that breaks their law.
I do quite like the idea of them shattering their own illusions. It is the only way that they’ll learn.
Bring it on.
They will just “think” they are being lied to again…and that the powers that be have brainwashed the local government. Remember, anyone who doesn’t see the trails in the sky as “geoenginerring” is in on it…(or, a brainwashed sheep). The “chemtrail” advocates are the ONLY ones telling the truth in this matter.
That’s the way they see it…that’s the way they will always see it.
There is NO WAY to convince them that the trails in the sky are anything less than an intentional “spray program” of some sort.
They are growing in numbers and it’s only a matter of time before someone does something drastic about it.
MyMatesBrainwashed, the Long Island story is being discussed on my other site, Metabunk.
http://metabunk.org/threads/320-Debunked-Suffolk-County-NY-Geoengineering-Law
Noble, you are unfortunately correct for the core “true believers”. By definition a true believer will not change their mind, even when faced with contradictory evidence.
However, there are a lot of people who are not that far gone, and can eventually be reached. We can also hope that early exposure to the facts will inoculate those who come across the theory for the first time. Especially the young and impressionable.
There’s certainly a worry that they will do something stupid. However, those of such a mindset are going to do something stupid anyway, no matter what they believe. See here for two murderers who incorporated chemtrail into their warped world view:
http://metabunk.org/threads/203-The-Chemtrail-Killers-among-us
If it were not chemtrails, it would have been something else.
“However, there are a lot of people who are not that far gone, and can eventually be reached.”
Yeah…
I’m always heartened by the case in point of ‘Janet’ who was heavily into ‘chentrails’ before finally realising that the pieces didn’t fit, were being purposfully obscured and withheld, or were in fact missing altogether.
Her story is around here somewhere, though maybe it might be usefull to have a page – here or on Metabunk’s ‘chemtrail’ section – where former believers explain how they finally saw reason.
Just need to hope that this guy Josef Van Wyck is all talk then judging from his post on WITWATS page
http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=2483487600017&set=o.158225827530424&type=1&theater
If he was a bit more specific then he could be reported to the FBI. As it is, that’s a photo of a B-10 Type 78 recoilless rifle. Not really an anti-aircraft weapon.
Here’s another,
http://www.facebook.com/N6NZE1?sk=wall#!/permalink.php?story_fbid=2483448759046&id=132660870130508
And another
And a post on Chem Trail/Chemtrails wall
Jozef Van Wyck
my grandfather Raymond Van Wyck was an officer in the Canadian army and trained soldiers who were shipped to front lines to us anti aircraft cannons which caused him to go deaf because he did not use earmuffs. If this is such a threat to your people then declare war, you find out where the aircraft take off and land you listen to their transmissions track flights and you use artillery and gunners and blow them out of the sky like skeet !
http://www.facebook.com/N6NZE1?sk=wall#!/permalink.php?story_fbid=249980675065193&id=132660870130508
Like · · Yesterday at 18:25 ·
That really is somewhat frightening.
I just realised I put her name in inverted commas like I’m protecting her real identity- her name really is Janet D, and her story can be read in autobiographical detail here:
http://metabunk.org/threads/187-Janet-D-s-Chemtrail-Conspiracy-Theory-Story-(Part-I)
[and that my correction is about 6 comments to late…]
In seems pseudo science is a big problem in this information age. So often people accept what they see on the internet and twitter as fact. As we have seen reporters are prone to do this as well. How many times have we heard a celebrity has died based on “sources” only to find out it was a hoax post from someone on twitter. In the rush to get the scoop, this will get reported as real news.
As a society, we need to sit back and analyze information a little more carefully. There are still lots of people, citing this very video as “proof” that chemtrails exist, even though the reporter admitted he was wrong.
It feels like we are back in Medieval times!
Planes naturally emmit aerosol particles which will aggravate new cloud formations. Scientific papers already details how plane-traffic create more clouds and change the climate on earth. No need for fancy ideas about massive chemical spraying from special tubes when it’s already happening from regular jet engines.
so your saying that when i see with my own eyes a plane fly over my town spraying only to stop change course and continue spraying in a criss cross pattern across the sky that im not actually seeing that? and that their just contrails? gimme a break, contrails do not linger in the sky for the entire day, people are not as stupid as you think. everyone needs to see this documentary http://youtu.be/jf0khstYDLA
Actually Digital…
contrails can and often DO linger in the sky for hours- see here:
https://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/
Its basic physics…if the air is humid enough the ice crystals in contrails cannot dissipate- the surrounding air cannot absorb the water…much like a cirrus cloud.
Do cirrus clouds linger all day?
criss-cross patterns are simply the result of very busy skies. Over 40,000 flights every day in the US…aren’t some bound to cross paths? …and if the contrails linger??
https://contrailscience.com/contrail-grids-are-not-chemtrail-grids/
And everyone who sees that video, needs to see this
https://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/
Your arguments are based on “What is it” and “How is it done” when it should be “Why” . You answer why and you come up with all the answers.
Why? Is it just for fun? Or do they have something to just get rid of and the air is the cheapest route?
Or – Are they dumming us down with a chemical so that we can be more easily controled? Somewhere I read about people being calmed by breathing chemicals and it brought to my mind the times I was driving alone into Los Angeles from a long spell of living in a distant rural area ( no chemtrails) and all of a sudden I was washed with relaxation as if I had taken a big Valium. I didnt question it then but some years later the very same thing happened again.
They arent doing it for nothing . The planes are always white and small and high up so that people can not inspect them and I believe they are pilotless.
How can you ask why “something” is being done when you cannot show that “it” is being done in the first place????
Max, why do you think speedboats are spraying white chemwakes on rivers , lakes and the ocean?
Such white trails cannot be natural. Neither fish nor ducks etc leave such trails.
What do you think their motivation is?
Do you think if you can speculate about what motivates the boat drivers to leave white trails all over the water surface that will give you a better understanding of the trails the boats leave, and do you think understanding physics and fluid dynamics is a better approach to understanding such trails?
Mike, “It” is being done over citys and not over the desert where it probably would be safer for humanity and I want to know why…….Who is gaining from it ? I live not far from a military base and their jets dont make the contrails and the commercial planes dont either……..
Greg, I may be wrong but I assumed the white water spray was due to the algae and soup that will make a foam when agitated like when it gos over a water fall …
Max there are numerous reports on the web of people worried about contrails when they are out in the middle of nowhere with no airports for a hundred miles, etc.
contrails form where aircraft fly, generally at high altitude. this means they form over cities, over prairie, over deserts and over oceans, and everywhere else too.
Max said:
“I assumed the white water spray was due to the algae and soup that will make a foam when agitated like when it gos over a water fall”
You have a very sound explanation there, without having to fall back upon a sinister conspiracy. People who have no idea about algae may not be convinced about it though.
I think Greg wanted to point out the analogy to contrails with his post. If you apply the very same reasonable thinking – and knowledge – to the question how the white lines in the sky are formed, then you will need nothing but physics and a little chemistry, supported by a web tool which shows the amount of daily air traffic over your country.
It would be real nice if when they are giving endless reports on the weather and discribing every cloud in the sky they would include the contrails ,because the sky is so full of them today. I just dont believe they are a natural phenomina and I do believe the pilot ( or remote controller) is able to turn the trail on and off . I have seen them stop and start again, and there are more than one plane at a time to criss cross each other going nowhere. If it is so beneficial to us (or just none of our business) Why arent we informed,? Why are we forced to guess about?
Contrails are just a byproduct of aviation. They don’t include them in the forecasts because they are difficult to predict exactly.
They are not there intentionally. They are just clouds.
“and I do believe the pilot ( or remote controller) is able to turn the trail on and off .”
Just as ancient people believed the world was flat.
Max said:
“I have seen them stop and start again”
That’s because the atmosphere is not uniiform. There are dry packets of air and there are humid ones, sometimes not very large. Like clouds and the room in between them.
See https://contrailscience.com/broken-contrails/
Regarding the grid patterns: why not compare them to street crossings? Add a little wind to a busy air traffic intersection and you get this:
https://contrailscience.com/contrail-simulations/
Hi Unseen-us
I see you!
I have read through this entire thread anaylising it from a broad perspective and have come to the conclusion that Uncinus is merely an illuminati agent who has worked fruitlessly on this shitty website for close to five years, including the waste of its life making the site itself and the time taken producing this pathetic attempt at debunking cold hard facts using some crappy “news” report in some crappy little american town while bringing in pseydos like “European Aviator” to try to keep its discussion going, and the whole 5 years Uncinus is there every time to bullshit on and on while even the most determined people faded away Uncinus is always there to keep this nonsence going. I have seen sites where at least the agent was able to keep a whole group talking/debating/arguing for months but this site is just mind-numbing and people didn’t even bother and just moved on to the more sofisticated establishment sites to attack them (the stongest castles always get attacked the most)
Dont bother replying to this Unco I wont be back to this site (whats it called? “2012 Contrail Science” hah since when did anyone need to know about contrails, you must be seriously be an inbred/jewish/moron to think up that one
Hey Unco can I ask you some questions?
Do you belong to the 33rd Degree?
Do you live underground?
Do you live near coal seam gas drilling?
Do you drink purified water?
Do you eat non-genetically modified organic food?
Do you refuse to take vaccinations?
Do you refuse to register yourself?
If you answered no to any of these questions then I will be happy cos that means your their little bitch, you dont have to reply cos I prob wont be back to check, and if you delete this I dont care I just wanted you to read this Unco, we will be coming for you establishment bitches FIRST, remember that.
over and out
Billy,
It seems you could find nothing factually wrong with this thread to write about, even after perusing 863 responses from your “broad perspective”, so you just wrote some typically juvenile insults. If that is your sort of persepctive, it seems more narrow than broad to me. This site is perhaps not meant for you, but as Uncinus has said before many times, if you can point out anything factually wrong with his site, he says he will correct it.
Bet you can’t, tho……..else you would’ve.
I guess sicne he’s not coming back and doesn’t want “Unco” to bother replying to his questions we caould reasonably class this as a “drive by inanity”??
I hope that anyone who is ethnically or religiously Jewish reads this post, especially if you have ever taken the chemtrails conspiracy theory at all seriously. Chemtrails definitely has a neonazi undertone. Some of the conspiracy websites will have one section on chemtrails, one on Agenda 21, one section on the global warming conspiracy, and one section on the holocaust never happened. As for our moderator, his name, picture and accent all say English working class bloke.
Worth pointing out that this video is actually used by chemtrailers to try and prove that chemtrails exist.
The article here explains why the news report is wrong.
Steve Funk said, “I hope that anyone who is ethnically or religiously Jewish reads this post, especially if you have ever taken the chemtrails conspiracy theory at all seriously. Chemtrails definitely has a neonazi undertone.”
I have to wonder if people from cultures that ACTUALLY have a history of REAL persecution are more or less likely to fall for this kind of hysteria. These kinds of “I’m awake and all the rest of you sheeple need to wake up, too!” and “anyone with half a brain” statements always strike me as coming from people who are desperate to feel important and intelligent. What better sign of their significance is there than a global plot to destroy people who are smart enough to figure out the “conspiracy”, i.e. them?
You only have to look up, see a spray plane overhead and as its plume starts up just over the city, (populated areas), its opens out bit by bit till a shimmering artificial cloud streak is overhead, then the contrail stops after the city. These planes make horizontal passes and open up a total coverage of the city. It is so obvious to anyone this is not right. When you go to the country, these contrails are not there, because they are under-poulated areas.
My concern is why the truth is not out, considering the thousands of people involved in this so called conspiricy, in filling chemicals in planes, the pilots, and air traffic controllers, why are they not telling the reason for spraying over cities and towns?
Effects on the ground by chemitrail spraying (this summer).
I find a large percentage of the poulation in towns now suffering from respetory problems, coughing up all the time, and more dangerously hacking up deep from within the chest, and even producing flem on hankies.
I was on a coach (bus) recently and it was crazy with coughing, and even allowing for hay fever, I had never seen it so bad.
As I said in the previous comment, I just cannot understand why there is not whistleblowing on this subject to find the real agenda behind these clouds of chemitails over populated areas. I wish I knew as this spraying has now really stepped up over the last few years.
If it is to defend cities against global warming, but with the some side effects of respetary problems, why not just tell the population?
If it is as conspirisists say, they are out to kill us, then why no whistle blowers telling, as a pilot has loved ones on the ground that he is spraying.
Please provide ANY evidence that the cause of the coughing…or any other illness, is the trails in the sky. Sorry, all I see is opinion and speculation. The bus exhaust (or something else entirely) could have caused the coughing…but you won’t even consider that…
The trails are contrails. I have seen no evidence to support any other claims.
My own opinion is that there are un-natural cloud formations made from chemitrails, but I do not know the reason for them.
As for the above comment, How could I figure out what people are coughing up about, all I know from my observations is there that is a lot more of it nowadays.
Also, So you cannot tell the difference between a natural cloud and un-natural chemitrail clouds, you need your eyes tested, as it is in the skies abouve you, unless you live in an unpopulated area.
Also, someone with a bit of an open mind and not blinkered, please explain my comments….
“I just cannot understand why there is not whistleblowing on this subject to find the real agenda behind these clouds of chemitails over populated areas. I wish I knew as this spraying has now really stepped up over the last few years.
If it is to defend cities against global warming, but with the some side effects of respetary problems, why not just tell the population?
If it is as conspirisists say, they are out to kill us, then why no whistle blowers telling, as a pilot has loved ones on the ground that he is spraying.”
Contrail form in unpopulated areas nearly as much as in populated areas. The only reason there’s a bit more over populated areas is that they tend to be at intersections of air routes. But see here:
https://contrailscience.com/there-are-a-lot-of-jets-in-the-air/
The real variable is the weather
Colin, I’m not asking you to “figure out” why people are coughing, I want you to accept that here are other variables than the trails in the sky. YOU are the one who made the suggestion, i just found it to be ridiculous.
I understand the difference between natural clouds, and man made clouds (contrails). I don’t know anyone who can’t! But, the fact remains, they are made of the same stuff. Water vapor, and condensation nuclei…if you want to be specific. What’s the problem?
There is no “agenda” behind the trails. The trails are a byproduct of hydrocarbon combustion within varying atmospheric conditions. Nothing more.
Colin, please read what you’ve written again:
“I just cannot understand why there is not whistleblowing on this subject . . . ”
“If it is as conspirisists say, they are out to kill us, then why no whistle blowers telling, as a pilot has loved ones on the ground that he is spraying.”
You have a very good point there. Have you ever considered, even for a second, that there are no whistleblowers because there is no “spraying program”? As you say, why would a pilot spray his own loved ones? Why would the thousands of people participating keep quiet about this? What is the simplest explanation for the lack of people speaking out about it? To me, it is that there is no program to speak out about.
Well if there is no program, please explain why the same plane flies back and forth over the same area and releasing contrails in parallel lines over the city, and these turn on only over the city and turn off once by it, and the lines billow out to create a banket that lasts for hours .
I had my binoculars on one pane at a high vantage point hill over the city, and it kept turning back and forward over same city area releasing chemitrails, creating a vast coverage blanket over the city sky.
No amount of ‘so called reasoning’ will dissuade me from this, as I see it happening before my eyes.
I have been on this earth for many decades, and never saw un-natural clouds like what we are getting now.
The chemitrails are here, they are happening and the only question is why is it being done?
Its not the same plane…
I don’t expect you to listen to reason.. Nor do I expect or want to dissuade you from believing this fantasy.
I have seen these trails for over 40 years. There is plenty of evidence of their existence for about 80 years or so…
There is no question as to why we see them. Hydrocarbon combustion within varying atmospheric conditions is VERY well understood…by those who have taken the time to learn about the subject.
NOBLE says “I have seen these trails for over 40 years. There is plenty of evidence of their existence for about 80 years or so…”
Yeh, right, thats your fantasy.
I can see I am talking to a brick wall on this website. fairwell.
Colin, my explanation would be that you are mistaken in what you’re seeing, or in how you’re interpreting what you’re seeing. That’s a much simpler scenario than a global (or even national) conspiracy to do . . . something . . . secretly by using highly visible trails in the sky that have been around since the dawn of aviation and which can be adequately explained by current science. I’ve answered your question, so why not answer mine? If there really is something going on, why no whistleblowers? Why no pilots outraged at having to spray their own families?
Unfortunately, you’ve made it pretty obvious that nothing, no amount of evidence to the contrary, will change your mind. If all you’re looking for is confirmation of your beliefs, you’ve probably come to the wrong place. If, however, you’re actually looking for an explanation for what’s going on in the skies, you should look around and read some of the articles on the site.
No fantasy Colin. Just the facts as they are understood by those who have actually studied this subject.
Well, you have not made a very good job of studying the subject, as anybodys ‘eyes to the skies’ should tell them over these last ten years, that something is not right.
As for getting answers to why this spraying is getting done, well I will have to try other websites for an answer, as you lot here are set in stone.
LAST MESSAGE FROM ME. You can carry on with your propaganda that all is ok, all clouds are natural, Yeh, tell me another one, Goodbye.
Colin, I think if you look around and read the posts and comments on this website you’ll see that the people here have done extensive studying of the subject. Some of them for many years. Personally, I’m new to the subject.
No one asked you why they’re spraying. You still haven’t answered my questions even though I answered yours. I’m not even entirely sure you’ve understood what anyone has said to you. I’m sorry you’re afraid of man-made clouds (No one here has claimed they are “natural”. They are man-made clouds, but they’re still just clouds.). I hope you continue to read and study on the subject and are able to come to grips with the reality that, in this case, there is nothing to be afraid of.
Just because you can see the trails in the sky, doesn’t mean you actually understand what you are seeing.
Nobody has said the man made clouds are “natural”. But, they sure are normal.
Just a matter of simple and basic science. Feel free to believe what you find on other websites, created by other people who have never studied these subjects. The truth will always be here, and in all the books ever written on the subjects.
Enjoy the fantasy…
Hmm. It looks like I accused Colin of misunderstanding what we were saying when I did the same thing. I thought when I read “As for getting answers to why this spraying is getting done, well I will have to try other websites for an answer, as you lot here are set in stone.” that he was looking for a way to answer our questions. My mistake.
You’re right, Colin. I am set in stone in some ways. Specifically, that one has to establish that something is actually happening at all before one can even begin to look for a reason why. Looking for evidence of why before finding evidence of who, what, when, and where is a waste of time.
I live near the coast (6 miles from), and on a clear day I can watch planes flying in from the US to the UK. Using a pair of binoculars, I can easily pick them out as they approach mainland UK, and they sometimes have no trails at all – not unusual at all, as not all planes leave trails due to height, temperature, humidity etc. However, what is unusual, is that once I know they’ve reached land, some of these planes start emitting copious amounts of whit-blue exhaust. It’s as if a tap has suddenly been turned on. Nothing one second, then copious amounts the next second. Once these sudden trails appear, they continue all the way inland until I can track them no further.
That’s not all. These trails can last for 5~7 hours (which can happen with normal contrails), but what is unusual, is the fact that they spread out to cover half the sky within a few hours. I’ve personally seen trails eventually block out 80% of a clear blue sky on many occasions. These spreading trails also seem to have an unusual colour to them. They tend to have a blue haze, which gradually changes to a mid-grey after a couple of hours as they spread across the sky.
Getting back to the immediate appearance of these trails – if this onset of trails was caused by something to do with the landmass, such as warm rising air currents, I would expect to see a gradual appearance of trails as the planes reach land, but as I’ve already pointed out, these trails are as immediate as someone flicking an ‘ON’ switch.
Contrails are basically revealing regions of the air that would be cloud if the humidity were a bit higher, so they can start and stop as abruptly as the edge of a cloud. See:
https://contrailscience.com/broken-contrails/
Contrails CAN and do spread out to cover the sky. This has been observed since the 1940s. In some places and seasons it happens quite a lot. See:
https://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/
Thank you for that very detailed information, Uncinus. However, that still doesn’t explain what I’ve witnessed day after day during completely cloudless skies, nor does it explain why they start the instant these planes hit land, so to speak. I’m very familiar with broken trails. I’m a professional photographer by trade, and I’ve taken more images of skies than I’d like to admit.
Once these trails start over land, they are solid trails until I cannot track them any further over land. As I say – this exact same thing happens day after day in exactly the same way without variation. Planes are over the sea, zero trails. As soon as they hit land, thick billowing trails that spread across the sky over many hours.
Now, I’m not saying that chemical spraying is DEFINITELY happening, but I will say it is very odd that planes exhibit zero trails over the sea, and continuous thick heavy trails the second they are over land here. If they ARE spraying anything intended to land on the ground, it would make perfect sense not to spray the sea – only land.
By the way – how do you insert images into your comment like that? I can’t see any reference to being able to include HTML code. Are you an Admin user? Or maybe they forgot to include it on the allowed HTML attributes list?
Hey – where did my response to Uncinus go? You guys deleting the ones that make a good point?
It’s back again. ?
The image stuff here is kind of broken. I’m the site owner, if you want to then add a link to an image, and I’ll fix it up. Alternatively, head over to the chemtrail forums on metabunk.org, which is a much better place for discussions (I’m “Mick” there).
http://metabunk.org/forums/9-Chemtrails
Depending where you live, the air can be moving up over the land, which would increase its relative humidity, and make it more likely to be favorable conditions for contrails. Look at some satellite image of where you live.
Uncinus – thanks once again for the information. I’ll check out the URL you sent.
After sending the last comment, I realized I’d forgot to mention a very basic point, and one that’s not very easy to ignore or explain.
Some years ago now, I started to notice that contrails were behaving in a way that I’d never seen before. I noticed how persistent they were, and how instead of dissipating in the usual way, they would ‘expand’ and grow in a way I’d never known. It also became noticeable that the whole sky would have an uncharacteristic haze to it – like looking through a thin fog. I noticed these effects long before I’d ever heard the phrase ‘chemtrails’, and long before I’d even heard anyone else mention their concerns regarding contrails.
After reading further information about other people’s observations and concerns, it seemed that they too had noticed something was wrong before having any prior knowledge of the contrail/chemtrail debate.
So the basic question is; why is it that people all over the world are noticing these effects and changes, and are doing so without any previous knowledge of the ‘chemtrail’ debate?
Something has changed, and something is happening to our skies, and people are noticing globally, and they want to know what it is. I could spend all day reading explanations for these trails, and why they think they behave as they do, but no-one yet has explained why people all over the world have noticed a drastic change in the way these trails behave, and the dramatic effect it’s had on our once clear blue skies.
Until I hear a plausible explanation for why so many people have independently noticed something has changed in our skies, any attempt to explain away these trails and their effects as ‘normal’ simply doesn’t reach the mark.
Something has drastically changed in our skies, and millions of people have noticed it. If these are ordinary contrails people are seeing, why are so many people noticing that something is different, something is wrong, something out of the ordinary?
Mike, I think what happens is that a very small number of people have not really paid much attention to persistent contrails on the days when they have happened before – then one day they suddenly notice and pay attention to them, really looking at them for the first time. They see an impressive contrail display one day, and wonder what it is. They might see this a few days. Eventually they discover the chemtrail theory. These people also tend to have a strong distrust of government, and a belief in several conspiracy theories like 9/11. This mindset makes the “chemtrail” theory sound very likely. These people also have a very high opinion of their own memory and observational power.
Of course the vast majority of people are also seeing the exact same thing, and think nothing of it. It’s just contrails.
wow.. after wading through all the years of debate, I wanted to see if any progress had been made on this debate.. I can see by Uncinus’ last note that he is still adamant that what we are seeing are contrails.. alrighty then!
I’m in Toronto Ontario Canada.. and we see more and more of these lately.. last week I saw abouot 12 parallel trails in the sky! Never before saw this..
I’m also curious that since the Government has offered an explanation as to what these things are, why are you still debating this topic? The government has offered the explanation that they are spraying the aluminum, barium and strontium into the atmosphere in order to ‘cool the planet’.. to fight Global Warming.. this is their official line.. which I don’t think most people are buying..
Uncinus, with all that has been discovered and admitted over the past few years, are you still standing firm on your stance that all we are seeing are contrails?
I forgot to mention.. the planes that leave these trails appear to be switching them off and on at will.. I’ve seen this on more than one occasion.. there are also dark ‘traces’ in the sky (not sure what those are), but the planes leaving the trails appear to be following those dark traces.. then switch their trails off once they’ve completed their circuit.. it’s obvious.. if they were ‘contrails’, what need would they need to switch them off and on?
this from Prison Planet:
The UK Guardian newspaper reports the gov admitting spraying chemtrails over the unwitting population for a number of years. Those areas now have high birth defect rates as germs and poisons were in the chemtrails. This is the only article I know of were the GOV admits chemtrails are real and not just contrails or our imagination. They used the age old excuse of national security (good for you and kept secret for your own safety).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4398507,00.html
The look and behave exactly like contrails.
Can you see or detect any difference?
Yes. I can. I’m not only looking with my eyes Uncinus.. I’m looking with my mind also. If the government tells us Chemtrails don’t exist, then turn around and tell us they are spraying our skies at the cost of 5 Billion dollars.. well, I’m going to look a bit closer aren’t I?
http://www.infowars.com/chemtrails-that-dont-exist-cost-5-billion-a-year-to-produce/
So the fact that the Government admits they’re spraying our skies doesn’t affect your belief in their existence? what’s up with that?
All in the name of ‘Global Cooling’.
Okey Dokey!!!
I have a hard time believing ANYTHING from a group of known liars.. sorry.. many, many times they’ve been caught lying.. we’re supposed to believe them now?? HARDLY!!!!
So, do your best to discredit what I believe.. it won’t matter.. because I know something Top Secret is going on.. if the people knew what was good for them, they would investigate the truth also.. and not let someone else dictate what they should believe..
The government has been caught experimenting on it’s own citizens in the past.. would it be prudent to trust them now??
http://www.infowars.com/us-governments-human-experimentation-apology-theyre-only-sorry-they-were-caught/
Uncinus, obviously you’ve spent a lot of time researching the Contrail phenomena, now you can learn about ‘Chemtrails!’
‘What in the World are They Spraying’ and ‘Why in the World are They Spraying’ are good video documentaries to watch.. check them out.. you might also learn something and join the ranks of concerned citizens seeking answers to this..
=)
sorry.. i forgot to respond to your message..
You say they look and behave exactly like contrails.
No they don’t. Chemtrails make people sick. Contrails don’t.
The government does not admit spraying for cooling. The $5Billion is an estimate of what it might cost in the future.
Yes they do.
here: http://aircrap.org/government-admits-secretly-spraying-poison-on-us/33135/
and here: http://aircrap.org/uk-government-admits-spraying-deadly-chemicals-on-their-citizens/33231/
and since Chemtrails don’t exist, why then would they put in an estimate of 5BN of what it might cost in the future?