Chemtrail Plausibility Study

(The following was written as a comment by “boenoid”, but I thought it was interesting enough to deserve its own post. I (Uncinus) have added the assembly line image)

For what it is worth, I am a Boeing engineer with 20 years of experience in the aerospace industry.

* There are no special tanks anywhere on our airplanes to hold chemicals to be sprayed out.
* There are no spray nozzles on the airplanes either, unless you count the emergency fuel dump nozzles on the widebody jets.
* This can be readily ascertained by simply looking through an airplane before the interior wall panels are installed. Here is a list of all the tanks which are on a jetliner:
** Fuel, potable water, waste water, engine fire suppressant (Halon + other stuff), cargo fire suppressant (just Halon), hydraulic reservoirs. On the new airplanes you will also see tank-like devices which generate nitrogen to inert the fuel tanks.
* Further, there is no room for such stuff to get installed. You would have to carry TONS of liquid to make spray trails independent of the exhaust condensation, and the only liquid we carry tons of is Jet-A fuel.
* In Everett Washington, the Seattle flight museum has a restoration center where you can go see dismantled airplanes being readied for display in the museum. The work is done almost entirely by volunteers. I assume other flight museums have similar workshops. If you can find one where you live, go to the restoration center and see the planes up close. There’s no where to hide a sprayer system where it wouldn’t be seen by maintenance crews.

* The Boeing final assembly plant is open for tours by the public, and VIPs from all over the world can get close-up tours. The airplanes are built in a staggered sequence, so that two airplanes side-by-side are usually being made for two different airlines.
Boeing 777 Assembly line at Everett
* The majority of Boeing’s production is sold overseas. In fact, the company is the nation’s largest exporter.
* Thus, if a domestic airplane was modified for “chemtrail production” in the factory, it would be as easy as pie for a foreign VIP to walk over and say, “What are these fancy tanks and sprayers on the American plane which aren’t on my airplane?”
* If any airplane WAS modified for chemtrail to add chemtrail sprayers, the thousands of Boeing employees would have to know. I don’t work in Fuels, and I can identify every tank and tube in the wing area.
* If thousands of Boeing employees knew, then so would thousands of supplier employees who go through our factories, thousands of airlines employees who go through our factories, and all the FAA and NTSB and DOT people as well. Also, our airplanes and factories are inspected by the Aviation Authorities of foreign countries (like EASA from Europe) and they would also need to be in on the conspiracy.
* There would simply be too many people involved to prevent this from leaking out. If the chem trail sprayers were being added in the factory, the secret would be out.

* So what if the chemtrail sprayers were being added by an aftermarket shop?
* You’re back to the same problem. It takes hundreds of people to design, build, and install a major modification on a jetliner, and the mod shops are just as open as Boeing is. You wouldn’t be able to keep the secret.
* Further, most airlines have their planes maintained by outside suppliers, who would have to be in on the conspiracy. Those who do their own maintenance do the work in open bays that again would make it easy to view the modification.
* And you have the same problem that you need to get thousands of maintenance people, suppliers, and certification authorities in on the conspiracy. It would have leaked by now. All it takes is one guy with a cell phone camera, and the world would know.

* So what if they somehow managed to do all this stuff anyway? Now you have to realize that somebody, somewhere, has to be pumping TONS of chemtrail chemicals into these mysterious hidden tanks on the airplanes. You would need a fill valve, and a distribution system, and special trucks carrying the chemicals disguised as fuel trucks. That would take thousands more people to be in on the conspiracy.
* One giveaway would be two fuel trucks pulling up to the same jetliner – one with the fuel and one with the chemicals. Remember, we’re talking about tons of liquid here.
* It just doesn’t work – you would need independent chemical fill ports, and somebody, somewhere, would notice.
* And while we’re talking about it, remember that every jetliner pilot has to check the weight of the plane and calculate a talk off runway length and other factors. The charts are the same for every jetliner of a given type, but if there really were chemtrail sprayers, then the charts for those airplanes would have to be different to account for the tons of chemicals that might be on the airplane.

* So, I really don’t think there is any way to hide the sprayers on jetliners. Too many people would have to know, and it would be too easy to detect by passerby.

* So, what if the chemtrail chemicals are in the jet fuel? This wouldn’t require ANY visible modifications to the airplanes, and far fewer people would have to know about the conspiracy.
* This would be harder to refute, BUT, you would have to discard the “on and off” contrails as being caused by pilots turning sprayers on and off. All the fuel on the plane came from the same fuel trucks and the same fuel tanks, so the supposed chemtrail would have to be continuous from takeoff until landing. I think that would have been noticed by now.

* So to my mind, that pretty much eliminates the possibility of using jetliners to create chemtrails.
* Which means you have to be using military jets, and thousands of them, flying unnoticed back and forth on normal commercial routes. So now you have to have all the air traffic controllers in on the conspiracy as well.
* And the planes will again need special tanks for the chemicals, and special fill ports, and special sprayers, and special tanker trucks filling the chemical tanks on the planes, special non-military suppliers delivering the stuff, and you’re right back to the same issue of needing to keep thousands of people from talking.

Bottom line:
You would need a special delivery system on the airplanes.
You would need a special fill system.
You would need independent tanker trucks.
You would need a separate supply chain.
You would need thousands and thousands of people to hold their tongues, and never have even ONE person leave any incriminating evidence in a safe deposit box to be discovered after their deaths.

It ain’t happening.

235 comments on “Chemtrail Plausibility Study”

  1. I am the one who refers to the “chemtrail” hoax believers as “chemtards” I coined the phrase a few years ago because I got sick of writing out ” “Chemtrail hoax believers. “chemtard” is just a word and doesn’t change the scientific facts or the complete lack of evidence there is to support the claims of the chemtrail hoax believers. There is absolutely no link between the trails we all see in the sky, and cloudseding. Two completely separate things. I love how you blame “The Government” for acting first and legislating later when it’s the chemtrail hoax believers that accuse others first and learn the facts MUCH later (most of the time, never!). In my opinion, it’s like saying “the government” (AKA “They”) is guilty until proven innocent. Sorry, I don’t play that game! The burden of proof is on the “chemtrail” hoax believers to prove there are any chemicals (other than those created through combustion…as with ANY car, bus…and so on) being “sprayed” (LOL) on us. I think those who I refer to as “chemtards” deserve that title. The person who created this website has asked me not to use that term, so I don’t. You may stop whining now.

    I see ZERO link between the trails in the sky and any cloud seeding operation. If you have some sort of link, provide it, please.

    It’s strange how some people say that Uncinus hasn’t adequately proven his case, when the FACTS that are available in ALL books on the subjects of atmospheric science and aviation PROVE him to be right! As a matter of fact, this site exists because the “chemtrail” hoax believers haven’t adequately proven THEIR case! As stated on this site many times…all it will take is some evidence. Will that be coming anytime soon?! All I see is the same old never ending assumption and speculation.

    Again this site has NOTHING to do with the word “chemtard”. That is MY creation. But, if you were to chat with me, one on one, in any other type of forum…I would refer to you by that name. If you have a problem with that, take it up with me and don’t bother Uncinus with any of that crap. Honestly, I believe it doesn’t MATTER what the “chemtrail” hoax believers are called, they will always act the same way…anyone who doesn’t agree with them is a “government shill” and a “disinformation agent”. Gimme a break! You act as if YOUR side doesn’t do it’s share of mudslinging. Again, look at yourselves…You people DO believe that the people “spraying” (LOL) “chemtrails” in the sky are guilty of doing so, yet you have ZERO evidence to support the accusation! I’d rather be guilty of calling people names than accusing them of poisoning the population of the entire world. Give me a break!

  2. mrr:

    concert-goers at woodstock accused the powers that be of seeding the clouds to cause the heavy rains

    Which just goes to show the extent that paranoia may run to.

    it creates a mob; everyone against the “chemtards”

    “Chemtards” ARE a mob. They are disorganised (naturally) and fully qualify.

    considering how often governments acts first, and legislate later, it wouldn’t be suprise me in the least if some agency a bit down the line admits to stratospheric geoengineering

    The ONLY time that governments do that is during a time of WAR.

    it is supported by many scientists as a possible means to mitigate climate change using sulfates in chemtrails

    No it is not. MOST scientists want there to be NO INCREASE in global acidity.

    i do not think it is a sufficient explanation for persistent contrails that change into clouds, and alter other cloud formations

    That’s because you don’t know anything. If you weren’t IGNORANT you wouldn’t say that.

    i bet not many remember that persistent and cloud forming contrails have been claimed to be non-existent in the recent past. that used to be the argument: you are imagining this, it isn’t real… now it is said that contrails have always been that way

    Whatever it is that you think you have heard, physics has remained unaltered, and persistent spreading contrails have remained what they were.

    granted, it is a bit hard to come by such past commentary from the scientific community as everyone is claiming that it is entirely possible to have a whole sky of formations that are man-made as a result of chemtrails. This is such an amazing change of rhetoric – reminds me of the “ministry of truth” in Orwell’s 1984. cut out the parts you don’t like and never refer to the parts you don’t want remembered ever again. we do it all the time; as individuals

    There has been NO “change of rhetoric”. The physics of the atmosphere has undergone NO significant changes since I was taught it in the sixties.

    history is written by the winners. and because that is so, alternative views are not taught, entertained or otherwise respected in the mainstream

    The “alternative view” to SCIENCE is well known (as it was in the sixties) as PSEUDOSCIENCE.

    while i feel it essential that i do keep an open mind, and be willing to consider other perspectives, i do not feel that you have adequately made your case… although i will come back and continue to read; it is well worth my while

    It may well be. Should we care? If you wish to understand the physics of the atmosphere I recommend to you ANY LIBRARY. While you don’t, we haven’t got the time.

    it would be in the best interests of those of you here that do not believe in intentional contrails(chemtrails) to afford the same courtesy of consideration that you have been shown by those who believe differently

    Be courteous to the ignorant? Of course…

    if not that, then at least be well-mannered enough to not resort to insults, marginalization and bullying in order to get your point across: it might work with some of your viewers, but it will just further the divide for others who are just trying to understand what the hell is going on, and they will cease to listen or return to your site. and then you are left to preach only to the choir

    While you think you know ANYTHING, when you don’t, and you begin telling us that things were just so (when we know they weren’t), then you are stretching everyone’s patience…

  3. Continued:

    And even if they DID seed the clouds for Woodstock, not only does it have nothing to do with the persistent contrails, it also made that little bit of history more entertaining. Wet hippies rockin’ to some music and playing in the mud…ENJOYING themselves, looked to me like a good time..at least it does now. But, cloud seeding is a VERY respectable business. It is not “sinister” in any way. I can’t understand why it’s ever even brought up! Is there some evidence that it’s any more harmful for me that the hairspray my mom filled the house with during the 70’s?!? Breath in some Auquanet and then be thankful for the perfectly fine air, we ALL have to breath (prove me otherwise if you have evidence to support any claim). Sorry, of the BILLIONS of sources of chemicals around me every day, I fear the persistent contrails the least. I think other folks should focus more on what they put into their bodies at GROUND level instead of focusing on the absurd.
    Without even a basic understanding of atmospheric science and aviation, most people won’t be able to grasp how their own atmosphere works, so they take the easy and lazy route and “learn” these subjects through youtube. I can see why they make their mistakes. From the ground it looks like “powder” or “smoke”. I just can’t understand why they are so stubborn when confronted with the very basic facts in this matter. It’s painfully obvious that “chemtrails” are a hoax. In fact, it’s like watching a train wreck to see all you people make the same mistakes…over and over and over and over again and again! But, as with the train wreck, it’s kind of “entertaining” to watch the lay people gather and show each other what they DON’T know. It’s like watching monkeys play in a tool box…stuff is flying everywhere…it’s HILARIOUS to watch and nothing will ever come of it.

    I honestly do feel bad, and care deeply for the people who live their lives like this..,.afraid of everything …basically, but…the way we are treated, because we understand these subjects, is inexcusable. If “chemtrail” hoax believers don’t have the slightest bit of respect for me, or the people they STUPIDLY accuse of terrible things, then I have none for them. I “try” to respect the admins wishes, but sometimes I do slip.
    Now, enough of the boo hoos…do you have any evidence that the trails in the sky have any chemicals other than those created through combustion? You know, the same type of stuff that comes out of millions of car/bus exhausts.

  4. mrr:

    i bet not many remember that persistant and cloud forming contrails have been claimed to be non-existent in the recent past. that used to be the argument: you are imagining this, it isn’t real..now it is said that contrails have always been that way. granted, it is a bit hard to come by such past commentary from the scientific community as everyone is claiming that it is entirely possible to have a whole sky of formations that are man-made as a result of chemtrails. this is such an amazing change of rhetoric-reminds me of the “ministry of truth” in orwell’s 1984.

    That’s simply untrue. Persistent contrails have always been observed to exist, and to spread out and form clouds. I’ve posted many historical accounts of this. It’s always been in plain sight.

    Can you provide ANY evidence on which to base your claim? Or even say why you think it is so?

    Regarding being polite. I agree with you. Perceived impoliteness hinders communication.

  5. Thank you Faith, I was going to write about that woodstock…. You already answered it. Yes, cloud seeding has been around for quite a while. Yet, those people never referenced contrails as the agents seeding the clouds, which would be absolutely absurd. Matter of fact, here in Russia, we could use the help of those in the meteorological services… We are suffering a horrible drought and losing many crops. We have peat bogs that catch on fire and my whole neighborhood has a haze and burnt smell in the air. The whole weather modification services are documented on Youtube, but “chemtards” put contrails to it. Shame…. Those literally ignorant in these fields of studies and too trusting can fall upon youtube and believe that a contrail is a chemical for weather modification. It is very sad situation coming from absolute silliness that is criminal, in my opinion, because it corrupts the minds of others with information that has no proof for the 10 so years it has existed.

    The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. — Albert Einstein

  6. Artyom ended with a quote from Albert Einstein; i will begin with one:
    “We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.”

    i had actually written this comment out, on the site, and hadn’t copied it..and when i went to actually leave it, it went poof. i truly hate when that happens! Usually i can link it directly to the amount of time i spend in formulating a comment, and i spent some time on that one. Having said that, this will be an abridged version of the original. i won’t post the links, i will just give you google terms for google scholar. stratospheric engineering. (add decades to it to refine results that will take into account it’s potential starting point-1990, and to put it into context from data in other decades) There is a veritable treasure trove of historical and recent information on this topic.
    Cloud seeding, cloud busting etc., are a part of this topic of chemtrails. While it may not be something you have run into from others leaving comments here, you have now. To assert that cloud seeding can only be benign in nature is rather absurd. That is the same kind of thinking that the hydrological fracturing industry uses when they “evaporate” the produced water in the sun with sprayers. That somehow it cannot be harmful to do such a thing because existing science says it cannot be, is short-sighted. We believe a thing until it is proven otherwise, both to our detriment and to our reward. So please do not try to usurp my example to prove your own perspective is somehow factual.
    As to the assertion that governments only act first and legislate later in time of war, i suggest you go to the library, go take a few history classes at your community college, search the internet, talk to your elders; do something, because that view is the epitome of tunnel vision.
    Government is not a “they,” it is an “us.” We are necessary co-conspirators of any potential conspiracy. We have created our paradigm by voting, by not voting, by refusing to participate directly in the processes of daily living that account for all trade activity, environmental hazards, and so on. We leave the elected to act on our behalf, and expect that they will do so in a manner which pleases us all. The problem with such non-participation is that you wind up advocating for slave labor in developing nations, genetically modified crops due to increased industrial farming in western countries, (as opposed to the genetic modification of crops that is not related to mono-cropping: such as tef crops in sub-saharan africa, where the cereal grain lodges and crop loss runs to 40%, which of course leads to starvation and makes the case that genetic modification efforts in some regions of the world are necessary and vital components in combating hunger,) environmental degradation and ultimately, decreased quality of life for the populace of the entire planet. One of the concepts that i came across, and hold dear is that human beings are incapable of accepting a shift of paradigm that requires instantaneous compliance. This idea runs through much of the scientific data presented on climate change, stratospheric engineering and all other means by which to mitigate the damage to our atmosphere. i would think that this website exists to close the gap between individuals, not to increase it. The commentary speaks otherwise. It seems that you cannot see. Do not assume you know where or how i came across the idea of chemtrails, you would be wrong. Do not assume that you know my political beliefs about the world specifically or generally. Do not assume that i do not read or go to the library. Do not assume that you know what conspiracy is; you have already made it quite clear to me that you have no idea what it is or how it manifests. Stop marginalizing others because you believe that your answers are the only answers. You have but one perspective, and i am still unconvinced that atmospheric geoengineering is NOT going on in our world. It seems that the belief here is, eventually, doing the same thing, (in how you approach any view that isn’t synonymous with your own,) is going to have a different result. It won’t. All that will be accomplished is that you will have driven another person away. And then you will left to preach only to the choir.

    ps-Artyom, just wanted to let you know that i have read of the profound loss of crops in your country. i am sorry for that loss, and hope that both countries that i call home will participate in ensuring an adequate food supply in the coming months.

  7. Sorry, “chemtrails” and cloud seeding have nothing to do with each other. Just as persistent contrails and cloud seeding have nothing to do with each other. You may “believe” they do, but you are certainly having a hard time convincing those who know better because they are actually educated in these subjects. Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary. I’d love to see that!

    Of course the government (as with all people) are capable of wrongdoing. I just don’t see ANY evidence that “they” have anything to do with the trails in the sky. Please stop with that paranoid suggestion until you can provide a single shred of evidence that the trails in the sky have ANYTHING to do with “the government”. I’m sorry that your general understanding of basic science doesn’t cover condensation and air saturation. But, there is no reason, AT ALL, to assume that “they” have anything to do with this phenomenon.

    Are you aware of the thousands of INDEPENDENT air quality monitoring stations around the world? Operated by people who actually CARE about and understand the atmosphere around them? Why not get in touch with one of these people and ask some questions?! Or, since they SURELY wouldn’t agree with you, would they then become the enemy? How about ANY atmospheric scientist?! Stop trying to convince those of us who learned the material from those qualified to teach it..Maybe you need to sell your case to the actual scientific community. Be forewarned…it’s a VERY hard sell given the facts as they are understood now. But, if you have the evidence…go for it!

    As far as I can tell, and feel free to correct me, this site exists to present the facts as they are understood by atmospheric science and aviation. Nothing more. People come and make claims that THEY can’t back up using the knowledge of modern day science. They are ALWAYS given the option to post the “truth” in the matter yet, they post ignorant nonsense they INTERPRET as the truth and then provide nothing to back up their claims except insults and lies. Why can’t conspiracy theorists understand the concept of “evidence” and how very important it is!? Thank DOG for the peer review process and the scientific method!

    I’m sorry if disagreeing with you “drives you away”. Actually, no…I’m NOT sorry!~ You people with your paranoid nonsense and complete lack of evidence make me SICK! Stop pretending that if you whine about being insulted, you won’t be insulted if you insult the intelligence of others. There is absolutely no evidence to support the “chemtrail” claim. If you have any, provide it…if not, stop whining about others who actually write/speak the truth about you when I (I don’t speak for anyone else) I claim that you fail to provide anything but the same anti-this anti-that BS!

    “preach to the choir” Hmmm…sounds familiar…That must be why I get kicked out of every “chemtrail” hoax believers forum when I simply (nicely) ask for the evidence they seem to be keeping to themselves. Stop acting as if YOU “leave” there won’t be a reason for this website to exist. This site represents the truth as it’s understood by science and aviation. With or without “chemtrail” hoax believers to discuss these facts, the facts will remain.

  8. By the way, if I thought for a single second that if I were nicer to the “chemtrail” hoax believers, they would be nicer to me, I would. But, I tried that and it didn’t seem to make any difference at all. When I first found out that “chemtrail” hoax believers existed, I was horrified! As soon as I made my first comment on youtube, to help someone understand something they BADLY misunderstood, the tone was set. These people don’t like being told they are wrong…and no matter how much it’s sugar coated, they will still be resentful. Stop pretending that people don’t like this site because they are “insulted”. They don’t like it because they don’t believe the facts that the site posts! It’s an open forum….where is the evidence to show ANYTHING on this site is “wrong”?!

  9. By the way, if I thought for a single second that if I were nicer to the “chemtrail” hoax believers, they would be nicer to me, I would. But, I tried that and it didn’t seem to make any difference at all.

    It’s not about making them be nicer to you. It’s about avoiding them erecting mental blocks because they feel you are not being nice to them. Being nice helps with communication. It may or may not help them be nice.

  10. mrr

    Cloud seeding, cloud busting etc., are a part of this topic of chemtrails. While it may not be something you have run into from others leaving comments here, you have now. To assert that cloud seeding can only be benign in nature is rather absurd.

    See now, that’s what we call a “straw man” argument. Obviously it would be absurd, so why even mention it. Are you implying that’s what someone here said?

    Cloud seeding is a method of increasing the rainfall of existing clouds. It’s been around for decades. Nobody has suggested otherwise. People keep bringing it up as if it somehow adds weigh to the chemtrail theory. The argument seems to run like:

    – The Powers That Be are bad, and have done bad things.
    – Cloud seeding exists
    – Therefore the chemtrail theory holds some weight

    Is that what you are saying here?

    We believe a thing until it is proven otherwise, both to our detriment and to our reward.

    Well, stop doing that. Start questioning things instead. Like a scientist would.

  11. – The Powers That Be are bad, and have done bad things.
    – Cloud seeding exists
    – Therefore the chemtrail theory holds some weight

    Is that what you are saying here?

    So far, that is ALL that I’ve seen from these people. It’s why I BEG for evidence with each post I make. Will it be coming soon or will I STILL have to rely on what science says these trails are?!? I don’t see where I have ANY choice other than to agree with what I’ve been told about air saturation and jet engines.

    I’d like to AGAIN make the point that it’s VERY entertaining when people, who haven’t studied Aviation and/or Atmospheric Science, lump completely different aviation industries together as part of their fears simply because they all happen to take place in the sky. And when they are informed about the facts, and shown where to find them by people who actually understand these things, they get HOSTILE.

    There will NEVER come a day when I “believe” that these trails have ANYTHING to do with cloud seeding. They are two completely different things that happen in completely different areas of the atmosphere! Cloud seeding doesn’t EVER result in long, white, long lasting trails in a blue sky. In fact, without cumulus, there would be no REASON for seeding. And how often do we see persistent contrails among the cumulus?! When do we see cumulus and cirrus at the same level?! I really wish people would quit pretending that they have properly learned about these subjects from other people who haven’t got a clue! But, then again…there is still the entertainment factor here. Please, “chemtrail” hoax believers, don’t change a thing. I love you just the way you are!

  12. I saw another video posted on prisonplanet, it seems to be a breeding ground for this nonsense. I used to go there to try and help people, but they want to believe in this nonsense. Anyways, they actually went to Shasta and harassed a man because they had a test done on a hepa filter that showed it contained aluminum. OMG!!! Cue the Chemtrailer gasps!!! What they don’t realize is the atmosphere is in layers and the lower altitudes pick up contamination from multiple things. Nothing could ever prove it came from a persistent contrail.

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/shasta-county-chemtrailgeo-engineering-contamination-cover-up.html

    sad video… I feel bad for the guy. The people are commenting about stringing him up as a traitor.

    @mmr, yes the crop loss is horrible. It is hitting our black belt region where our lands are the most fertile in the world. The soild is amazing, you wouldn’t believe it until you had the soil in your own hands. We are one of the largest grain exporters in the world so it can effect global grain prices easily. As for your political views and so forth, it would take assumptions by what you posted. I assume you are against big government by you being suspicious of them. I think that is a good thing. However, there is no other explanations for this “Chemtrail” nonsense. It really is horrible hoax that has nothing to do with real world problems. There are real pollutions. Even your shampoo and most soaps have a dangerous compound called Sodium Laureth Sulfate which is a carcinogen. So is most of household upholstry because they’re now synthetic and give off Chlorofluorocarbons which also isn’t good for your health. We are surrounded by harsh chemicals, garbage dumps, industrial wastes…. It isn’t suprising when people do tests and find things that are bad. However, it doesn’t mean to get paranoid, by limiting exposure and opening windows for ventilation and just simple health practices keeps modern man more healthy.
    The government does have very bad people running it. They have sprayed defoliants in Vietnam and birth defects still occur there. BP just recently sprayed an ungodly amount of corexit in the Gulf. How can you link documented things like this to contrails? Cloud busting? Please don’t tell me you believe in the crystal cannon thing people hook up to a car battery…. A scientist here, in Russia, wanted to prove his gadget could break up the clouds. He used a huge ionizer. He pointed it up at the cloudy sky, hoping to clear a opening in the clouds when he turned it on. It didn’t…. It rained on him. The reporters laughed and left him to go back to his drawing board. (this story is on Russia Today)

    http://rt.com/Top_News/2009-10-23/clouds-moscow-sky-experiment.html

    -pay close attention to the scientific community’s response…. This man not only did not follow a scientific process. His only claim it works is he shut it off before it rained. I am surprised he is allowed to call himself a scientist.

    -“Weather phenomena in the atmosphere, [such as] turbulence, cyclones and anticyclones, are extremely powerful. I wonder how a small device can influence it,” said Lyudmila Krasnokutskaya of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics within the Russian Academy of Sciences. – a quote from that news article is very telling about the atmosphere. And those who make cloud busters are arrogant if they think they can master the skies with a copper tube, a crystal, and a car battery.

    Russian Air Force flew out to clear the skies during May 9th parade, I posted this here already, they accidentally dropped the whole bag of cement out the plane. It flew through someone’s roof. They use it to absorb the water crystals.

    If you want to follow a journalist who investigates government wrong doings, that is credible, and is one of the true investigative journalists. I suggest reading and watching John Pilger’s work. He is one giving a deeper look to the Western world’s wrong doings that gets overlooked. I wouldn’t go for doom sayers like Alex Jones. They add sensationalism to real stories, and also complete nonsense. I can go off topic from these contrails…. Remember the Polish President’s accident? Youtube immidiately showed an eyewitness video from a cell phone. Nothing strange besides the accident itself. Some bullets were heard, most likely from the handguns of the President’s security burning off. Then a new video was released on Youtube. It is even said that it was Edited… They added Russian voices about killing them and stop and regroup. The whole thing is this is only in the edited version. Alex Jones site pushes the story that Russia murdered them. What would Russia benefit from that? It is just nonsense. They connected that video back to a group of Ukranians and Georgians. The point is with this example is the internet will toy with your mind if you let it. (two conscript soldiers did take a credit card from a body. It was dispicable, but we have issues filling the ranks of are military just as the United States and we have some people that are conscripts with questionable backgrounds.)
    Contrails, even persistent, have been studied since the time of flight. In Russia we have few of them. We don’t have the size economy of England and America and we are also a huge vast land. So air traffic is less here. That latest close up video of the airplane on the mainpage of this site has the aerodynamic contrails. Whenever leading edges seperate the air and they collide back together, the pressure itself can condense water. The leading edges, flap mechanisms, and other places where vortexes can occur, create them…. I think… The pilots here will correct me if I am wrong. That was the latest evidence being used and it is really lame. None of these things proves anything. Everything is observations and pointing to government wrong doings or different fields all together and trying to connect the two as being one.

  13. “I feel bad for the guy. The people are commenting about stringing him up as a traitor.”

    It’s only a matter of time before someone with limited knowledge of persistent contrails harms a pilot or atmospheric scientist for being “in on the plot”. Maybe then this subject will get the attention it deserves and someone will find a way to explain persistent contrails in a way EVERYONE can understand! Then again, the chemtrail hoax believers are so distrusting of anyone around them, who doesn’t share their views, that they may NEVER be able to understand that they have fallen for one of the funniest hoaxes ever created. Funny, simply because it relies on the fact that a VERY large portion of the population has never studied atmospheric science OR aviation…and are easily led. It’s the perfect hoax…all anyone has to do to believe it is “look up” and forget about everything they learned about condensation.

  14. @Faith, of course it is only a matter of time. If you listen to them speak on their sites, they even mentioned stinger missiles. If some of these people are passionate about it as other issues like abortion, I think it is only a matter of time they confront or do something in the realm of illegality.
    Continuing the topic of our wild fires, the news today announced they will try weather modification on a larger scale to make rain. This has nothing to do with contrails.

    http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-07-30/russia-heatwave-fires.html

    I live on an airfield used by the military. Right now MЧС is flying their Kamov and Mi-26 helicopters converted for fire fighting. They are flying over my home everyday, multiple times. So I hope the cloud seeding helps. It could certainly save lives, property, and the environment.

    Education didn’t used to be that hard of a thing. Education infuses a bit of propaganda in some departments like history and so forth, but you can’t change fundamental science. Things like math and science speaks through language barriers and nationalities.

  15. It’s in military jets. Either a fuel base additive or some construct of a spray system placed by military, but it IS a real happening. These men texting are military debunkers folks. They are that or just workers who have no access to the truth because they are NOT military. Questions…why do I have a hundred photos of two different planes releasing in exact X’s? Why does my website have a glens falls new york photo of a two mile long perfect astrix made precisely by three completely different jets? Why do these trails not appear in any movie or commercial before 1998 and are in nearly every media art film today? Answer…The military is on the other end of this conversation…PERIOD. You folks should be ashamed of yourselves for thwarting the people from the facts that they are searching for. You are disgusting NAZI sociopathic scum and deserve what the human race will be bringing to you very soon. Justice! it’s that or you are simply ignorant and or too frightened to deal with this level of reality. Stay AWAKE folks! We’ll stop these bastards…

  16. “Just read somewhere that the Philadelphia project had 135000 people involved and was still kept a secret… Just a thought”
    Great point friend! Capone didn’t own every cop either yet he ran the Chicago city. He OWNED THE MAYOR!!! It’s called compartmentalization folks. Hive mentality doesn’t let the drones know why,what….
    It gets done by them though because they are retarded followers who have succumb to the will of their “betters” through predictive programming and poor childhood input. I love the good people…the strong, smart and loving people that are winning this mind game against our hearts. A hand full of sociopaths have managed to control the idiots who fight wars and the police who feel power. That’s how soul crime happens…so wake up…and let’s beat the living shit out of these puny, pinko punk fags on the “top” of the food chain. Our odds (after waking the people) of victory will be aprox 6 billion to 5000. Themz good odds folks…GO GET EM!!!! wakeupnowusa.com

  17. the odds of a jet heading in a clime realeasing its puffs of love for twoo miles and then another jet in a decline realeasing its lil sky skunk kisses for two miles and meeting precisely in the middle to form a perfect X is nearly impossible without thought input. much less a THIRD jet from adding a third line to make an astrix is hysterical and obvious.

  18. The jets you see are almost certainly in level flight (neither climbing nor descending). They are passing through the same region of cold humid air, so they form contrails that start and stop similarly. I’m sure you’ve seen all kinds of varieties of X, which will vary based on where the contrail starts and stops. This will happen hundred of times a day across the country, and probably several times a day in some busy location with the right weather.

    The asterisk pattern is obviously going to be much rarer, you are more likely to see an A or H or # shape. But it will inevitably happen, and people will take a photo of it, and it will live forever.

    Exactly how many * shapes are there photos of? A quick google finds about three, hardly surprising as the result of 20 years of digital photography.

  19. WUNUSA wrote:

    “Why do these trails not appear in any movie or commercial before 1998”

    You are simply mistaken…and if you are wrong about this, what else are you wrong about?:

    From the film Patton- 1970.

    http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/7951/700756d18ecd.jpg

    what do you make of this?:

    http://contrailscience.com/twilight-zone-contrails/

    There are many more examples if you really choose to look in a genuine way and not just jump to conclusions- lots of movies and TV shows from the 70s and 80s have persistent contrails in them- there are numerous movie-goofs websites that will enlighten you.

  20. WUNUSA- you are very involved in this theory. I’m curious (and I’m being serious) what systems do you utilize to either clean or filter the air you breath? And how about your food and water sources? Additionally, you state it’s the military doing the spraying correct? Nearly all of the videos I have seen show normal commercial airliners spraying. Would it be possible that these are military planes with commercial markings? That would make more sense. Plus the military is very involved in developing alternate fuel sources, perhaps as a cover for the spraying activity.

  21. I am not part of any NWO.
    I do not believe that mass aerial spraying (chemtrails) is happening..
    I love this Earth.
    I am fascinated by it’s beautiful complexity.
    In fact, I’m so fascinated, that I wish I were a scientist dedicated to a greener Earth.
    But even professional environmental scientists and researchers use FACTS to form conclusions. They also use FACTS to form beneficial, workable solutions.

    When presented with two vastly different explanations of the same phenomenon I will always weigh the evidence of each explanation, and check the references and relevance of those facts (evidence)….THEN make a decision, as to who I will believe.
    In the case of persistent contrails, the evidence is there to support them…..the science adds-up, the history is consistent, professional sources independently agree on the matter, the subject is taught in schools and institutions, etc.

    I don’t know how many times it has been asked on this (and other sites), for the chemtrail believers to present absolute facts and verifiable evidence (as we already have)…..but they refuse to do so.
    “I can see it with my own eyes”…is not evidence or fact. Neither is, “but they have the ability to do so” or, “there have been tests.”
    Just because, “you can see it with your own eyes”, is no explanation of WHAT you are seeing.
    For example, on a hot desert highway, in the distance you often see what looks like “water on the road”. Is it really water though ?…or refracted light ?
    If the chemtrailer’s same methodology were used here, they might say, “there defiantly IS water on the road, because I can see it with my own eyes, that’s all the proof I need”. However, if the science is known and accepted, we who accept “facts before judgment”, are confident there is NO water on the road…..it is an illusion of light.

    Have you ever seen the moon when it is near the horizon, and it looks very very big ?
    Some will say, “It is larger because light bends as it travels across the earth’s horizon……”. But that is a little internet rumor made by those who speculate, and turns out is the wrong science, when investigated. What’s really happening is it “looks bigger than normal”, because we are not used to seeing it next to hills/mountains, trees, or buildings. It is actually the same size at the horizon, as it is when it’s directly overhead.
    Judgment before investigation, is the wrong way to understand a situation. In fact there is another word for it…called “prejudice”…to “pre”-judge.

    If I had ANY knowledge of massive secret arial spraying to harm me or the earth, I would be pounding on Congress’ door, with a club in my hand.
    The fact that I don’t, means that my club is by my bed side…and is at-my-ready.

  22. Cloud busters!!! That has got to be the greatest belly laugh I have had… ))))))) I mean it beats out some side splitting comedies that I had to pay around 200 rubles to see. I can’t believe people believe they can affect the vastness of the atmosphere by hooking a car battery to a crystal and copper piping. Some people are truly lost. The photos are definitely all explained already on the site. The amount of aerial refuel tankers modified for ice testing, likely one of a kind. The atmosphere testing plane. Also not many. The balast system for testing passenger weight distrubutions in the new airplane is also not on all the planes. Creating a hypothetical dispersal system for a hypothetical chemtrail, would cost fortune if they didn’t standardize them for all the aircraft. Since commercial airlines are the ones photographed leaving these trails, what then? Then it is fuel mix and the engines that disperse, they say. Their answers adapt to the lack of evidence which sets off the BS meter for even people in the 101 classes.

  23. wow . thanx for that site . .lots of pix.
    thanx i was curious about those pix. didn’t seem like a logical way to spread chems.

    .hahaha ,. the reporter suddenly says he’s dead wrong, go figure, although there have been many weather balloon studies done on chemtrails that primarily say the same thing( that barium and bio-yuck, and various other particles, have been found in them).
    Also the effects of chemtrails on organic farms in europe is pretty weel researched.

    Here’s a great short doc. Sets it straight.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdtLTyNOB0A

    hey Artyom is it true that cloudbusters don’t work. I look into it , i hope you are wrong though.

    I don’t get this debate, are we trying to figure out how to deter the effects of chemtrails?
    Or what they could be in them?
    Debating on whether or not they exists is like debating whether or not my this forum exists.
    Any one who never seen a chemtrail really needs to get out of the house, or just look up once in a while.

    Have you never seen a plane creating both a con and chemtrail being emitted from the SAME plane? One evaporates the other one expands over a large area.
    Have u never seen the small metals that gather in the cracks of sidewalks?
    Do you think that everyone who has come out about this is lying, or crazy?
    Did u not seen the UN papers talking about secret experiments to deter global warming and protect us from U Vs, by spreading reflective metals in the upper atmosphere.
    Or how bout during desert storm when iraq was COMPLETELY covered in chemtrails, as a weather warfare technique?

    Any way.
    Any one have any ideas on how to protect our selves from these lines in the upper atmos . .

  24. There no argument that can be legitimately evoked over the existence of chemtrails I’m sorry.
    Just watch the sky for a while, once you see the SAME plane emitting both a con and chem, you’ll be a believer.
    The only debate which is left 2 ponder is What , Why , And How.

    Also it is interesting to note that these chems also have been causing sun-dogs, which are a lot more prevalent as of late.

  25. rucifer, I’m a little surprised that after the vast bulk of your evidence has been explained, then you still don’t question the theory in the slightest.

    Consider that everything you see is explicable by existing science. If you can provide a photo or video of something that can’t be explained, then maybe you’d have a case.

    I think you are of the opinion that any trail that lasts a long time and expands is a “chemtrail”. Is that correct?

  26. That is the whole misconception of the chemtrailers is they believe contrails disappear. I live in Russia. Many said they are only doing it in the West. I was in Belgorod this past week with my family. The air was just right and the contrails lasted all day. The air corridor between Kharkov and Moscow passes right over. There is nothing there but farm land. They started on and off as they hit various moisture pockets in the atmosphere. They spread out until the evening where there all the lines almost merged into cloud cover. People DO See them and get out of the house.
    No those orgone cloud busters are complete pseudo-science nonsense. There was a story on Russia Today that a “scientist” said he would use a special ionizer to clear the skies, in Moscow. It rained on him. Weather Modification itself isn’t dropping particles and magically creating clouds out of nothing. They so far only influence existing clouds. Why they call it cloud seeding. They use things like silver iodide and even experimented with cement mix. There is a news article still out that the Russian Airforce trying to disperse the clouds for the May 9th parade, accidentally kicked out a bag of cement without dispersing it and the bag fell through a home, not killing anyone thankfully. It does seem to work as they can stop light rain.
    Looking up and seeing the contrails is the first step in the scientific method. What people don’t understand is the atmosphere is not a closed system that one can study. It has open confounding variables. It is open to space at the top and at the bottom there is volcanoes, industries, and other things going on. The airplanes flying ahead being sampled by a weather balloon sounds silly to me as you aren’t controlling the weather balloon. Sounds like another atmospheric sample. Of course if a real scientific study pulls above average pollutants, it is a real concern to all of us. Even us here who think chemtrails are nonsense.
    Since people are saying it is the engines, Kent University, in a controlled envrionment fired some jet fuel through a engine and sampled the exhaust in a controlled environment and found compounds similar only to kerosene exhaust. Some will say well, the mlitary fuel or Michigan has special fuel. That would immidiately limit the widespread nature of contrails lasting in the skies all over the world.
    I watch the sky all the time, even took photos…. I will post them here soon. I already took them from my camera to my computer. I see contrails. Engine exhaust in cold upper atmosphere condenses and creates clouds. I don’t understand when people say sticky filmy stuff when they can’t touch a contrail to know such. Then they say well it landed on the ground. What is on the ground can be anything from the neighbor shaking out a dirty rug next door, to the MacDonald’s down the street, to the factory on the other side of town. If Volcanic ash can last in the upper atmosphere for years, what makes you think a aerosol will fall straight down from the contrails?
    My what why and how is more like what evidence other than loose relations between other government programs like… they sprayed agent orange. (How does it relate to contrails) the goverment is evil. Yes, we know US has overthrown around 50 nations through subversion and propped up murderous regimes. Soviets hid mass graves in Katyn. They made people lab rats. You know this because the information is leaked. If they are poisoning the whole world, there wil be a leak. Especially if you claim they have been doing it since the 1970’s. The amount of chemicals required would be a industry the size of big oil because that’s what it would take to dispense that amount of chemicals. So there would be a whole Barium industry so huge that it wouldn’t be able to be hidden. Since the airports and civil airliners are all involved in every nation around the world. That involves millions of people that can leak something. This is NOT a JFK assassination conspiracy with a secret shooter. This is involving WAY WAY TOO MUCH!!!
    They then say they want to spread sulfer in the upper atmosphere and geo engineer. They started talking about this in 1991. Now that global warming is a hot topic, they are getting more voice and holding conferences. They then link this to contrails. I believe the altitude they’d spread sulfur according to this man’s theory is MUCH MUCH higher in the atmosphere than any civil airliner flies. Again it is a loose association. How does this relate to contrails. Contrails themselves are like the clouds. If the atmosphere is unstable and saturated, they can form clouds practically. Many English speaking people live in areas that have huge amounts of Air Traffic. I live in a place that is a transit hub in the middle of no where which means we have tons of aircraft, but I rarely see them. My family’s home is beneat 1 air corridor and they all fly the same direction, North and South between Ukraine and Moscow. There is nothing strange about it when you understand the atmosphere and why it does what it does.

    As I tell all those who believe in Chemtrails, don’t be afraid of outside air as it is proven safer than in your home unless you live in a highly polluted region, next to a city street with idling traffic and bus stops or near a factory. The air in a home with plastics and household chemicals builds in the home. Most homes are insulated very well and it is better for health to open your windows. Cloud Busters is the most silly thing I have ever seen. I’d be too embarrassed to even be 100 meters near one. If they work, I’d definitely use it for some sunny days in Moscow’s winter. The same people selling this were the type people who made nuclear tooth paste just after WWII.

  27. God bless you Artyom, i am from Russia, once.
    I am very sorry to hear that about the cloud-busters.
    What of course i question the theory of chemtrails, Uncinus, i have for 30 years, and after my cousin came back from the gulf warm, he enlightening me on this topic and I’ve been curious ever since, but hardly satisfied.
    The use of spraying chemicals , metals isn’t science? What?
    This spraying happens, has and does, the only debate is if it’s world wide, and if all lines that last are chem trails.
    but saying none are that’s unlikely.
    So Why a would plane over a ‘no war’ region have to streams of gas coming off it?
    1 one that dissipates.
    2 one that expands.
    . . .same plane?
    What other possible explanation is there. I mean the UN admitted that there is an already existing experimental geo-engineering in Europe, i guess it could be just in Europe. Or perhaps it just hasn’t been exposed here.
    Most importantly why have planes not left these trails in the sky in the past when i was a boy i loved planes . and the jet streams i would stare at, i would watch them disappear . This is a new thing, and i know it is not because of new fuel , i have looked into that.
    Where i employed i know that secrets run companies. Many, many many men, keeping many secrets because they know that these secrets must be kept , because it for the good of all, not just the company , but the people to.
    Even if many would not agree.
    thank you.
    im sorry again for my english

  28. Oh sorry, i mentioned not the weather balloon. I forgot to say that amongst the various metals and chemicals, there where uncharted metals. metals that aren’t due for public release for a while anyway. Metals used by the military for conductive purposes. Very strange but in war this helps very powerful satellites, as well as some other uses. But should not be over European countries.
    Basically, i hope to find an answer besides the one which seems the most logical.
    Thank you all for your very educated answers.

  29. The trails in the gulf war were simply persistent spreading contrails. There was a lot of them because there were a lot of high altitude flights, bombing runs, patrols, etc. That’s why there were so many in WWII

    I’m not sure exactly what you mean with the “same plane, two different trails”. Has this ever been photographed? Trails can form (and dissipate) in many different ways.

    Explain more about the “metals”, show me one piece of evidence that metals are coming from trails.

  30. And may God Bless you too!
    Rucifer, at what is seemingly same altitudes can be a difference of 600 meters and a totally different temperature and humidity, which can easily explain why there are 2 different types of contrails in the sky. Go hike a mountain for instance and you will notice as you go higher the difference. Think of the air similar to water as the ocean currents and the water depths have different effects depending on the depth. Swing your hand through the air and feel how the air swirls behind your fingers and collides behind your hand as your hand seperates it. Notice your palm build pressure and feel most there. Now the air is in levels and has vortexs, turbulance, weather fronts, barometric pressure. The whole lot!!! If you study this atmosphere, Contrails will make sense to you a whole lot more. All aircraft, commercial, military, and even propellar, given the right conditions will create 3 types of contrails. The ones that just tag along and disappear shortly behind the aircraft. The second type that just leaves a thin line across the sky and fades. The third type requires unstable atmosphere. The ice crystals fall due to the instability and basically make a cloud.
    Don’t be sorry to hear it about cloud busters. If you worry about living in a clean environment, I suggest taking a few courses in environmental sciences and biology, I loved learning about those things. If you want to learn about the atmosphere and whats there, there are atmospheric research and studies available in all regions of the world. Contrails are similar to car exhaust. Just high up in the sky.
    If you want to build something creative with your hands, try building a crystal radio and a stop gap transmitter. That’s really fun stuff. Totally off topic, but it is creativity that actually has real results. By the way, a crystal radio doesn’t require electricity as the audio received has the energy already in it. Voice of America broadcasted in these frequencies. I also lived near a AM wave transmitter and it would play when the radio was even TURNED OFF!!! )))) I am just mentioning creative things instead of wasting human energy on chemtrails. Unless atmospheric science interests you. Some conspiracies are a lot of times for entertainment value like going to forturne tellers. Not much substance, but a lot of intrigue. Chemtrails is one with no evidence at all, but the look up in the sky. The lady who had the sprinkler turned on for watering her lawn and went on about how chemicals are in the water by filming the rainbow formed by light refraction. She looked silly to all of us… Right? We all remember the rainbows forming in the water mist due to the sunlight. Of course there are chemical compounds in public water to sanitize the water to prevent illnesses, but she doesn’t know that. That is what chemtrail theory is like. That woman turning on her spicket and saying the government put chemicals, look at that rainbow how many chemicals are there. Damn the government. It was silly. That silliness was visible for more people. Chemtrail theory seems silly to those who understand the atmosphere. Weather modification looks like a Cessna type plane with flares on the wings that burn off particulates. Rockets can fire and burst into the clouds also. Geo Engineering, if it took place wouldn’t be visible to the eye and likely be done via research airplanes, maybe a contracted Air Force plane or NASA may do it, if they choose the Sulfur method. It won’t have ANYTHING to do with the contrails. I don’t understand how people try to coorelate them together. It is out of sheer ignorance that they are linked.
    Tried posting this type response on an Alex Jones article and the answers were vitriolic. Get a wide range of responses such as being a troll, to living in a cave, idiot, government agent. Why? I just don’t agree with them. Seems pretty coercive to not hear someone out and attack them. Anyone is free to believe what they want. Doesn’t mean it is true though.

  31. Here’s the photos.

    This one is of the Church in Prohorovka dedicated to those who fought there. There is also now a museum next to it. To left of the cupola, a contrail is visible formed by a commercial airliner flying from Ukraine to Moscow.


    This photo shows a new contrail and an old one above it formed hours ago. This photo is in the village. Other than the village, not much is there.


    Here is an airliner flying the same path directly over the home at the village next to a previous one. They seem to have flown 1 to 3 aircraft per hour.

    When we returned home the contrails later in the evening didn’t just stay in a line, but spread out and covered the sky. Other days the skies are clear, but those aircraft fly through all the time.

  32. Thank you.
    Yes i agree with mostly everything, except the fact that a plane can not make two sets of contrails.
    one which evaporates , and one that expands, for it is of course at the same altitude so there is no instability.
    I am confused though for now you say that contrails are not condensation, from the wings but rather like the exhaust from the engine , which then could not be in fact a con-trail for it would consist of various oxides and sulfur.
    When me and my friends years ago climbed Elbrus we took the top and smoked cigars the smoke we breathed out did not turn to clouds and expand many times over.
    That seems very bizarre that some planes would have such incredible amounts of emission. This also been only in the last 30 years the same time that UN signed the humanitarian agreement against the use of weather weapons.
    Also this is the English version of the article of warning of uses of these devices.
    http://www.rferl.org/content/Russian_Scholar_Warns_Of_Secret_US_Climate_Change_Weapon/2114381.html
    A little of topic also i know, but still it does important.
    There was also the german Scientists who brought up many good points that answer many questions, if u care to be interested.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJibMsZutaA
    To be very honest i am sad to say, for were i know, i would be very newly surprised if there was no such plan in action right now to make sick of the people of the earth, for population control purposes. And many men involved would keep this secret for they would think they were benefiting what was good.
    thank you

  33. The exhaust for the engine is in large part water vapor. That’s what condenses.

    A plane can also produce an aerodynamic contrail from the wings. So if it produces both, then one can persist (as it’s additional water vapor), and the other fade away quickly (as it’s a temporary drop in pressure).

    A contrail is just a type of cloud.

  34. There are aerodynamic contrails, rucifer, they occur less often then the ones from the engines. The pressure from the wing’s leading edges and tail and other parts like the flap mechanisms that protrude that can cause vortexes behind the wing can make air collide and that pressure can form contrails. There is a video of it here on the site. The same plane can create all three types of contrails, the three types are in terms of lasting in the sky… Have you seen someone hold their breath really hard building pressure in their mouth and then when they exhale, a little visible puff of condensed air comes out? You can try it, but I warn you, you may get a head ache. The point of I am making here is the air is warm, but the pressure you make is much higher than normal in your mouth. So when you exhale, notice a puff of visible condensed air. The temperature in the room is warm and it quickly dissipates. So you have to pay attention. At air shows, leading edge contrails are also visible only for seconds when they turn very hard and fast near the ground. The ones that last and are more visible are usually closer to the equator where it is extremely humid air. Someone here will correct me if I am wrong. Anyways, everything that forms in the atmosphere is explained… All the types of visible forms of condensation. So I don’t think it leaves room for Conspiracy. Since other forms of spraying, whether be it pesticides, herbicides, biological weapons all have been documented and don’t resemble contrails in the least and they occur close to the ground. Weather modification is also well documented. They have special propellar driven charter type aircraft that have racks on the wings and they give off particulates while circling in the clouds.
    Uncinus is correct… The contrail is just a cloud, but it does form due to the airplanes interaction with the atmosphere flying through, like the hand through the air, it creates pressure and the engines definitely have even more pressure and heat. So condensation can easily form in many places in the atmosphere.

    If you want to study weather modification, know that it takes a non gaseous surface to transition from vapor to water. So there is a nucleation process. Nucleation The cloud seeding is done by adding Cloud condensation nuclei .

  35. Eugenics and population control are a whole other topic. The Russian man made a claim based on what? He seems to be using his position to make his claim sound ligitimate. I said before that I can say I was a officer in ВВС России, there was a high up meeting I was attending at the Kremlin, where there were extra terrestrial beings visiting. As an Air Force officer, does that make a claim without any evidence true? Or will you let my position in society persuade you that it is true on word alone? All the meteorologists said the jet stream block occured which happens every few decades, but this was the worst one, but how can you be sure when records only go so far and recording methods aren’t standardized.
    Maybe one day they will uncover a plot by some sick Eugenist or a government. How does this relate to contrails? Contrails lasting and spreading out do occur. Smoking on a Mountain top isn’t a good example. I was using the the mountain top as an example of layers of atmosphere, not saying that it is matching conditions, many mountain tops have snow peaks, which is visible evidence about atmosphere’s layer and conditions in changes of altitude. In Siberia, car exhaust lingers and trails down the street though…. In winter, power plant cooling towers send vapor up into the atmosphere that trail off into the clouds above. Contrails is already well known science.

  36. For what it’s worth:
    1. 59 year old carpenter here. I first began noticing persistent contrails (AKA “chemtrails”) in my area of Florida around 2006 and have made a daily log of my observations and taken hundreds of photos and videos of them since then because I observed a change in the normal and usual appearance of the sky.

    2. To supplement my visual observations, I began using flightaware.com to view the radar tracking of commercial passenger jet aircraft in my local airspace in real time. Although altitude information is not available, real time directional path information is. My observation is that in almost every instance when I have checked, an observed chemtrail flight does NOT correspond to any commercial passenger flight path shown on flightaware.com. My conclusion from this is that chemtrails are being produced by aircraft other than commercial passenger jet traffic. Since I have observed up to 50 or more chemtrails being laid down in a single day locally I have to conclude that this is a massive operation involving hundreds if not thousands of specialized aircraft.

  37. “My conclusion from this is that chemtrails are being produced by aircraft other than commercial passenger jet traffic. Since I have observed up to 50 or more chemtrails being laid down in a single day locally I have to conclude that this is a massive operation involving hundreds if not thousands of specialized aircraft.”

    Well, you’ve already come to your conclusion. So, there is nothing you could learn HERE! I mean, your a carpenter, right?! That’s the next best thing to an education in atmospheric science and aviation…right!? Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us! I’m going to take your word on all of this and switch sides! You’ve convinced me with your obviously superior knowledge on the subject. I’m now a chemmie! Thanks for helping me come to my senses. I’ve been deceived for all of these years!

  38. First, flightaware is certainly less than real time. Second, that program culls info from some pretty poor sources so I doubt even position is very accurate. It certainly isn’t pulled directly from radar sweeps. And it does give altitude- are not able to read the data blocks correctly?

    I bet carpentry is easy. Measure, cut, nail, repeat. See- I can oversimplify too.

  39. Eric, I’d be interested if you have any statistic on that. Like, how many flights did you observer in total, what percentage left a trail, and what percentage each of those were you able to track down on FlightAware? You should be able to get that information from a day of your log.

    And for comparison, on a day where NO planes left long trails, how many planes did you see, and what percentage of those flights were you able to identify?

  40. I wander in here and simply put out my own empirical observations to this group and this is what I get back:

    1. TheFactsMatter: “I mean, your a carpenter, right?! That’s the next best thing to an education in atmospheric science and aviation…right!? ” Essentially ad hominem attack, with no offer to address the observations I brought up in a reasoned manner. A school-boy’s trick, not worthy of further discussion.
    2. captfitch: slighty better, he argues that FlightAware isn’t real time (but offers no proof or explanation) but then degrades the discussion by joining TheFactsMatter in slapping me for being a carpenter. “I bet carpentry is easy. Measure, cut, nail, ” Again, not worthy of further discussion.
    3. Lastly we have Uncinus, who does not overtly attack, but wants statistics. I’m not a statistician. I’m just telling you what I have observed and what I have concluded from it. You gentlemen can go out and do your own observations. Just look up.

    I mean really guys. Can you hear yourselves?

  41. I think without statistics it’s rather easy to form an impression mistakenly. There’s confirmation bias, but there might also be other factors – like you noticed the planes with trails, but don’t notice the planes without, but really in fact both types of plane are hard to spot on FlightAware.

    I’m not asking for anything complicated by statistics – just some simple counts.

    You say you keep a daily log, so if you can’t even provide a comparative tally for one day then that simply suggests you have been keeping a log of the flights that leave trails – which in itself is not a particularly useful statistic.

    I do my own observations. I see jets that leave contrails. I’ve also had problems in general matching jets to FlightAware, as it does lag quite a bit, and does not show all flights. I’m presuming you use a view like this one?

    http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KTPA

  42. Eric, I think what Uncinus is telling you is the whole point of keeping that log is to gather statistics because that is the next step. Saying you aren’t one to do it makes log keeping in the first place pointless, don’t you agree? Florida has Huge amounts of air traffic. Check this out, I think this shows it well. This fellow used FAA information. Each dotted streak represents a flight. And the number of flights in the air are shown also. It is just 1 day’s activity. FAA Flight Paths. Now for a global view, you can see United States and Europe are the most saturated with commercial flights. Global Flight Paths. Notice in both, you can see the state of Florida just by the highlighted flight paths alone! That’s impressive and shows how much traffic goes through in one day. Now look at this satellite image of the SouthEast US and notice the contrail lines. Compare them with flight paths… Satellite Image SE USA. Remember from your vantage point on the ground, a contrail that seems to be just over your head at the 1 o’clock position could be kilometers away. It is possible to tell how far away through geometry if you know altitude and the angle. Uncinus can help you out with altitude checkers and so forth. There is a way to tell by your lens focal zoom setting and I think measuring the size of the aircraft plus considerations of angle will tell altitude.
    And Contrails form when ever the atmosphere suits them!!! The argument that they can’t appear lower than 7000 to 8000meters is nonsense… so long as the atmosphere can provide. In Antarctica, a C-130 created this example… C-130 ground level contrail. Here is a photo of one Photo of Antarctic Takeoff with Contrail. Even Helicopters do it with their turbine engines, note this photo. Helicopter Photo, take off with Contrail. So this one isn’t exactly a line? Well, airplanes use the engines for propulsion, Helicopters use them to move the rotars, but the turbine exhaust still makes the same as a contrail… Киренск is where this photo was taken, North of Lake Baikal. Yandex Maps, Kirensk. Here is a different type of contrail… They quickly dissipate due to ground level atmosphere conditions. The air is very humid due to the foggy conditions. The leading edges of the aircraft creates aerodynamic contrails on arrival. Incoming aircraft and aerodynamic contrails. This is why people in aviation will never EVER believe in “chemtrails”. They not only have to inspect their planes before and after flight and any changes have to be known by the pilot since he is responsible for the passengers lives. So a new addition to spray a chemical would be known 100% by the pilot. Not only the pilot but foreign contractors, those who purchase and sign contracts with the manufacturers. Ground crews… It is international. These contrails are formed and seen by pilots and aircrew endlessly. At -40 degrees they form and where I live it gets -40C quite often. Those B-17 bomber crews got up there. The moisture from their breath would freeze shut their oxygen masks. They had many layers of clothing. Their bombers left trails too. Memphis Belle Documentary. Listen to the Narrator. This is old documentary. I saw it when I was in America before there was such a thing called a Chemtrail. I hope this information helps, Eric. My whole point it is the atmosphere that determines what happens. You can see from Antartica contrails can form at ground level. Super humid air can aerodynamic contrails can form too, however not lasting.. The atmosphere gets colder with altitude so the contrails from engine exhaust usually forms around -40. Where I live, we reach those temperatures. Just like that helicopter photo. I honestly do not understand the motives of the chemtrail group. They all have gone no further than your observations and some have collected rain water samples as proof. Which isn’t a controlled sample. G. Edward Griffin, the man behind What in the World are They Spraying?, would have one believe otherwise. He thinks no way could anything but sprayings be found in rain water. He points to mountains and always quotes the aluminum and barium as sources. However, study what is most important for scientists making a sample. You’ll find they need a control. Something that doesn’t have other contaminates otherwise you can’t tell for certain. Guess what that means? You need to sample exhaust directly from the engines since that is what is the creator of the trails. Unless proven otherwise with a spray bar… Which they don’t have. Kent State University did it once with the local airports aviation fuel. Samples came back as just pure exhaust similar to Kerosene. Other way is to fly directly into a contrail and sample it and fly in open air and sample it multiple times and mark off common factors in each sample, which would leave the exhaust and its contents. If you understand that cloud formation on nucleation sites in the air, particles, then you would know that not only a rain drop formed on a particle, which could be pollution itself, the rain as it travels to the ground can easily absorb more contaminents on the way down. Why do you think the air is so fresh after it rains? Why is there worry of Acid Rain? Look up sublimation on the internet. Now a could is ice crystals yes? So if the air is supersaturated. Do you think the ice crystals can sublimate? Diffuse back into the atmosphere? Now you know how clouds stay visible all day.
    I searched and found these things on my own. Chemtrail believers believe every .edu and .gov is a disinfo site as well as this one. You’ll notice if you read through here none of them provide evidence contrary to this websites information. They just write it off as disinfo. How is it disinfo if they can’t prove anything here wrong? Dis-info is to basically lie to someone to prevent them from knowing the truth. In all honestly, I believe that is EXACTLY what the chemtrail community is doing. But to them, everyone who actually studies the atmosphere is WRONG and a covert operative working for the government meant to misinform the public. So if you were to talk to a meteorologist who also would likely be glad to address your concerns, would you believe him to be a shill?
    Another deal with this, What in the World are they Spraying. They link Chaff, Contrails, Meteorologists, and Aluminum together. Chaff is not sprayed out of exhaust. They originated with aluminum strips tossed out of planes. The Allies did it against the Germans and the Germans also experimented with it. They called it Dueppel. Of course, now it is studied by scientists to match wavelengths, be smaller so it lasts in the atmosphere longer, and is dispensed from small cartridges that are launched out from the tail end of the aircraft. They dispense the aluminum strands that are almost like needles in size. They flutter out into the atmosphere. They are no means aerosol. Nor do they put it in the aviation fuel as it could damage the engines. Anyways, the documentary shows weathermen saying military is using chaff so on… They then show contrails…. Chaff is meant to create a radar signature. Using it while flying undetected in enemy airspace is stupid, unless your arrival is expected and one can use it to cloud out radars. They can also use it to confuse radar guided missiles. However, by looking at contrails. They’re mostly visible at the edges of weather fronts, on satellite images. You’ll see clear skies, some patchy skies with a few contrails, then more clear, then a weather front. On the edge of the front is hazy skies…. In those hazy skies there will be tons of contrails as that front passes through heavily traveled flight paths. Weather radars I seen don’t account for all of those. The German news source, misquoted by the chemtrail community, was talking about the military use of Deuppel and the radar.
    Well, I suggest don’t shy away from real sources of knowledge while educating yourself. Contact pilots, metereologists, and so forth with your questions. A lot of pilots are here. I don’t know if we have a metereologist writing here or not. This meteorologist tried explaining it…. Meteorologist explains Contrails

  43. Got this from a chemmie this AM

    angryamerican1000 wrote:

    ” 1)For your Info, I am a 39,514.79 hour pilot, and instructor so I think if you want to discuss aerodynamics I would have you. I am rated in many helicopters (b-205, b-407, b412 b-429, md500e, oh-58D-almost a 407, r-44, r-22, and s300c’s & 300cbi’s) and fixed wing (B747, B767, 757, 747, KC-10, single engines, multi and tail wheel), so you can suck my dick. Shove it even deeper in your throat because I am checkout auth, for both fixed and rotor. Got your gag on yet? Suck bitch.

    2) It is your ignorance that makes you sound like a pompous ass.

    3) You do not know the real definition of a conspiracy theorist.

    4) Further more you did not watch the clip(s).

    5) Fuck you, you fucking fuck. (And the horse you rode in on)

    6) Once you free your mind from the bullshit you will see real truth, your ignorance inspires me.

    7) My life is not miserable; I am in-fact very happy. You seem to be the miserable one. No one can compete with your stinky opinion, I say stinky because opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and the facts don’t stink.

    8) I have sat as SIC (co-pilot) on a spray operation. So fuck you. Believe what you want, I won’t take your 1st amendment right away like our government has.”

    Notice that last one….

    So I asked him/her why he never learned about air saturation with all of that training.

  44. @Facts, HAHAHAHHAHA!!! Someone really emailed you that? That sounded like a child throwing a temper tantrum. Makes his claim of being a pilot really doubtful. Especially claiming he went on a “spray mission”.

  45. “1. TheFactsMatter: “I mean, your a carpenter, right?! That’s the next best thing to an education in atmospheric science and aviation…right!? ” Essentially ad hominem attack, with no offer to address the observations I brought up in a reasoned manner. A school-boy’s trick, not worthy of further discussion.”

    No, I was trying to get you to see how maybe you are jumping to conclusions about things you have never actually studied. I know many carpenters who are VERY intelligent, but they don’t know SHIT about aviation. I was just pointing out that you could be just like that.

    “2. captfitch: slighty better, he argues that FlightAware isn’t real time (but offers no proof or explanation) but then degrades the discussion by joining TheFactsMatter in slapping me for being a carpenter. “I bet carpentry is easy. Measure, cut, nail, ” Again, not worthy of further discussion.”

    Nobody “slapped you” for being a Carpenter, We are just pointing out that coming to conclusions about aviation/atmospheric science phenomena based on your education as a carpenter isn’t all that credible. You claim to already KNOW the truth, having come to a conclusion. It was obvious that you weren’t all that open to conversation having already come to your conclusion! Conclusion still means…”final belief”, right?!

    “3. Lastly we have Uncinus, who does not overtly attack, but wants statistics. I’m not a statistician. I’m just telling you what I have observed and what I have concluded from it. You gentlemen can go out and do your own observations. Just look up.”

    Trust me, Uncinus NEVER misses an “attack” (more like a sarcastic elbow in the ribs if you ask me…what’s the matter…you really can’t see that I was simply pointing out the FACT that you haven’t studied these subjects…does that make me a “bad man”? ) and I have the polite emails asking me to stop to prove it!

    My apologies to you if I have offended you by pointing out your lack education in these subjects.

    I’m sorry.

  46. Hey facts- that email you got was completely bogus! No one who has over 10000 hours keeps such accurate measurement of time. Plus we almost never state time in tenths and never ever in hundredths. No one would ever stat type ratings in 757 and 767 in the same breath- it’s the same type rating.

  47. He maybe refering to it, but don’t knock Flight Sim! That’s pretty cool program))). I would love to buy a flight stick and pedals for a flight sim… It would be the only thing I could afford doing at this point in my life.

    Did you see the photos near my Grandparent’s home I posted here? Scroll up? The place is on the battle of Prohorovka(Southern Flank of the Kursk battle).

  48. Oh, don’t get me wrong. Flight sims are very entertaining. I meant no disrespect. Ill have to check out your pictures.
    I also want to say that I am very impressed with your posts, and I’m honored to know you are on the side of truth.

  49. @Eric-

    I applaud your efforts to actually try and track flights- that is something most “chemtrail” Believers are not willing to do…

    I encourage you to also try and determine the weather conditions at flight level- using radiosonde data (depending on how close you are to the balloon) you can get some data on temp/humidity etc…That would give you some idea if contrails are even possible.

    Because, even flights you cannot identify on flightaware are subject to the laws of atmospheric physics…and just because you cannot identify it does not mean that the plane is automatically “spraying”. To suggest that is somewhat of a leap of faith. Even unidentified flights can leave persistent contrails.

  50. I know you didn’t mean disrespect and flight sim is just a game, but a cool home simulator in fact. I was just being silly. Though Logitech peripherals cost a fortune here. I think the flight stick and rudder pedals can set one back on 500$ here. That’s some people’s monthly salary.
    As for my own personal knowledge, I studied biology, environmental science, chemistry, human anatomy, I brushed with aviation with Air Force service (doesn’t really add much atmospheric knowledge in my case), but I used the tools I learned in other science to research answers. I found this site through your Youtube page. I remember being in shock at the endless junk on youtube and was glad when I find not all believed it by the time I got to your page. I don’t know anyone around me that believes it. Anyways, I am not a meteorologist or an aviation specialist… So from me, it isn’t Authoritative. But I know that chemmies can’t alter the laws of physics to justify their belief in “Chemtrails”. I know they love to think contrails can’t persist, but they do as science already explains the atmospheric conditions required for it.
    In regards to Chemtrails, their best argument is geo-engineering: sulfur aerosol, which would be injected into the Stratosphere, which is above the Troposphere, the first level of atmosphere. This would not be used in commercial aviation though. It would be done by special aircraft, just as they sprayed Corexit, etc. Everything has been sprayed, has been documented (Agent Orange)and if secret, only later to be disclosed. The historical evidence of Contrails is real, it is visible from the engines. This makes it the most illogical method of deployment ever contrived by a theorist. Spray bars evade the chemtrail community, they mistake everything for a spray plane, from test craft for icing to drogue refueling pods. Commercial aviation, military, any thing that flies for that matter, can make long lasting contrails. Have done so since man put combustion engines through cold air… People have no concept of nucleation even… If all these engines are doing this before hand. They can’t possible link with any certainty that geo-engineering is secretly occuring because that would be making a HUGE assumption that commercial aviation and turbofan engines are having sulfur compounds used as jet additives and these compounds are release unaffected by combustion and released as aerosols… NONSENSE. People would rather be entertained by buying What in the World are they Spraying? for 10$ then contacting a Meteorologist for free… I already provided 2 different meteorologist explanations that I found just browsing the web. Some people really make me believe that kids just sleep through school… Truth is NOT hard to find. T
    They create conspiracy theorists by first affecting a person’s mind. This part is NOT hard because the target of most these sites is the government. The government’s do some pretty screwed up things…. Also being in positions of power equals access to easy ways of self-fulfillment(Corruption). The past 10 years, Americans have had a growing awakening to the fact US isn’t a shiny precious light to freedom. That they have undermined governments, tortured, and raped… That they had financial corruption… Wow welcome to reality. So if the US would overthrow the Chilean government, installing a fascist nut known as Pinochet, in the name of “National Security”. They could definitely GEO Engineer, couldn’t they? These are psychological tricks. Where now they gave some factual information about bad things that the government has done, they have become a trustworthy authoritative speaker. By the way, stock up on seeds, gold, and so forth from website and enrich me while you are afraid… They then give out half truths, something that not too many people will look up and then out right lies. But it doesn’t matter because you are already caught up in the movement against wrong doing by the government. Something that is just and divine, yes? But how many are giving up their own critical thinking?
    Example of a half truth on the Alex Jone’s show I remember hearing him say. It stuck in my mind due to the fact it was so off based in reality. He stated Soviet Union, under Stalin, near the end of WWII, liberated a POW camp of US soldiers, numbering 200,000 and then threw them in a Gulag to die… He also stated, US leaders said WHO CARES and left them to die… The real story, almost ALL of them were returned and never imprisoned, but around just over a 1000… The ones kept by Soviet Union were US soldiers with Russian names and Russian Jewish ancestry. There were an addition 700 aircrew shot down AFTER WII flying over Soviet Airspace (reconnaissance over the iron curtain, it happened). So in all just under 2000 US citizens were left. Yeltsin disclosed all documents at the fall of the Soviet Union. The US State Department came to Russia and offered those who were still alive(age now being consideration) an option of repatriating back to the USA. This factual side was even written in the Baltimore Sun. That’s a FAR CRY from 200,000 US servicemen being thrown into labor camps and dying off… That’s just one way conspiracy sites can mislead people. Then when these sites throw in Chemtrails, talk about geo-engineering talk due to AGW climate change. All three things they HATE, as they are all three seen as Big Government. Now with that in mind, some of these Chemmies are a bit more understandable for why they are so stubborn. I think I will only agree with them about 1 type of Chemtrail, that’s what comes out the back end of Al Gore and his CCX money generating scam he doctored up with the help of Goldman Sach’s, and other various big money players. Wealth creation schemes won’t do the environment good. But that’s a whole other story…

  51. Strange… I have a question, how do you put photo in the box to the right of the messages, like yours?

  52. “I am not a meteorologist or an aviation specialist… So from me, it isn’t Authoritative”

    Of course it is! You have taken proper steps in educating yourself instead of allowing conspiracy theorists to manipulate you.

    “People would rather be entertained by buying What in the World are they Spraying? for 10$ then contacting a Meteorologist for free…”

    Oh man, that is so true. They have their pick of thousands of experts who are probably an e-mail away, and they CHOOSE to be misled…and will pay for it.

  53. It is a shame people choose to listen to men like G. Edward Griffin, film producer, author, and political lecturer whose got something to sell you… rather than someone who studied the atmosphere, spending precious years of life to do a public service. Oh well. I wonder if the meteorologists appreciate being shown his chemtrail documentary!!! I would love to know about that one!!! )))) As they are used because they show a radar interpretation that they believe was CHAFF and mentioned military. I am sure the new documentary will do the same. Many pied pipers in this world. )))

  54. The chaff connection is a bit bemusing. It’s almost as if they don’t understand what chaff is, and what it’s used for. They seem to just jump straight to “spraying aluminum = chemtrails = geoengineering”, when in reality aluminum chaff has been deployed for tests continually since WWII, and has nothing to do with weather modification.

  55. Hello , my friends i am happy with the commenting. Learned much the last few days, i am happy to say it sounds as though you are right most of the spraying is not chemical Geo-engineering.
    I have also have found out that this Geo-engineering is also happening, but on small scale. There is much fear about this topics because many of the chemicals which will be used all over world, are dangerous, to human health. So for me the debate is over, both are right. Perhaps one to paranoid, and one to positive. Many of these experiments done even in the west, on weather and also on Geo-engineering, and even the spread of common flu. But in isolated instances.
    I have Watched just watched this and it makes the what happens to make a trail very clear.
    Much like many of you have said in the comments. Bottom of the line is that contrails mostly are clouds and clouds can sometimes stay for long time. Which is to say that there could be other things being sprayed but would not be seen for the most part.
    please watch this video it is very good. They even explain the photos i was asking about.
    part 1
    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/7299427
    part 2
    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/7293422

    thank you very much brothers and sisters, for leading me to the answers.

  56. Well, I would say it is not a symposium of those who disbelieve, but those who believe. First moment were motivational speaking, pleasant to listen to if you feel that you need reassurances of basic human rights. Then speaking of NWO, which is basically Globalization with a Cabal that pulls the string of a one world government. After that he leads off the conversation, by linking just that!!! Contrails, Geo-engineering, and Weather Modification all into one group so he already proves himself not even knowledgeable. It is surprising because such knowledge is extremely accessable. Geo-engineering on a small scale… do you know what it is called? Weather modification…. The proposed idea for Sulfur being sprayed into the atmosphere would not be contrails as they existed before 1990 whether or not your memory tells you otherwise. The contrails are forming off their engine exhaust… Use some critical thinking… They’d have a spray bar, yet no one at airports are coming forward with spray bar images. I can provide endless amounts of spray bar images on the sides of C-130 aircraft and a few other smaller aircraft. That wouldn’t account for their massive global presence. Weather modification doesn’t even work well, they can influence the weather, if the conditions are right. I’ll continue watching this video, but my work load right now is a bit higher as I am just beginning my work day. I think it is very poor of those people holding this forum, in the video, to take the angle of they’re chemtrails and lets have a discussion if they are wrong or not…. But that’s just me. Making an assumption they’re chemical in nature is fine, but you’d have to do engine exhaust tests and knock off the variables that are natural in engine exhaust and anything left over would be a possible jet fuel additive. Then research this compound to see if it is a compound that can reflect UV Radiation from the sun. Since the hypothesis is they are trying to block the sun. If this 2nd step of your project fails, then you have failed to prove contrails are chemtrails. Then you may say they are in fact using a spray bar. Your goal could be to photograph every aircraft coming and leaving a airport in search of spraybars and having an aircraft specialist overview it, ask him to point out any modification for chemical spraying. Again you won’t find any.. But we can show you endless photos of commercial airliners leaving trails from their exhaust. They’ll always correspond to the amound of engines they have…. Sometimes they have leading edges giving off aerodynamic contrails too. In short, I have yet to find ANY evidence of contrails being chemtrails. I would believe if I found credible evidence.
    Their water samples are not evidence, even HEPA tests. As an environmental scientist, I remember testing water samples in a river. Also water plants have multiple stations. Do you realize the intake valves at the pumps that draw in River water to a water purification plant have a level adjuster? The water samplings can tell which level a certain toxin is coming from a certain industry polluting. They have multiple testing stations down the river, that is how they find sources or pollutants. How can you tell if is is a secret car dump for people who don’t dispose of things properly or a chemical plant? (They usually know by the chemicals before hand) but anyways they test those multiple places up the stream. They test different levels, even river water is layered. And this tells the treatment plant the ultimate setting for their intake pumps and they adjust the height level. How does this relate to the rain water tests? It is just showing how all the layers of the water and the fact river water moves down stream, there are tons of new contaminates introduced along its path. You can never begin to understand from where unless you test up stream to the source. Then match contaminents with their wastes. In short, rainwater doesn’t tell you anything, but over all contamination. Even their samples can be contaminated by improper handling. How is the tests done? By whom? Are there error margins? Do you know that the chemical tests that you have color matching charts have high error margins? I doubt those methods are used by professional labs, but still where are the charts? Even if they do show these charts, again does this prove Chemtrails? NO! For a scientist this would not be a good evidence as they want a control, not a sample that would represent the entire overall atmospheric contamination. You can’t tell me when a toxin was introduced into a droplet of water. The first foreign objects was the CCN, the nuclei or particle that attracted the H2O molecules(a cloud forms this way). That’s also the theory behind using silver iodide in weather modification. They first used dry ice, but it was too costly and took a lot of time to use dry ice to form nucleation agents. Silver Iodide was quicker and more efficient. The particles become the nucleation agents.
    As for geo-engineering…. I believe they won’t hide it IF they do it. They didn’t care when they sprayed harmful junk, like Agent Orange(to this day, there are babies born in Vietnam with extreme disformaties and horrible birth defects). They didn’t care about public opinion when they sprayed Corexit EC9500A and Corexit EC9527A. These things are NOT hidden… Through the government’s past behavior, I don’t believe they’ll hide it. Especially if they are holding open forums that even the public got to hear. Yet, they take it as a secret program. WHY?!
    Weather modification has been going on since the 1960’s and no one hides it. Here is a video of real Weather Modification. It is a education video created by the company who performs weather modification and why they do it. Those airplanes are the weather modification planes. Totally boring right? They don’t create long persistent contrails… Weather Modification Video They could have saved a whole town in Siberia that had orange size hail destroy their homes. The hail was so large that the roof was not strong enough to stop them from punching through and falling into their rooms. Imagine the cost of damage…

  57. All you need to know about their standard of evidence is contained in:

    In 2008, a KSLA news investigation found that a substance that fell to earth from a high altitude chemtrail contained high levels of Barium (6.8 ppm)

    Since that was shown to be entirely false two years ago (it was actually 0.068 ppm), the fact that they include it now must give any reasonable person pause. Are they actually stupid, or are they deliberately trying to distort the truth?

  58. The same article is here too, I guess, because at the end they also use KSLA again. The comments are also bemusing… The commentors also link HAARP to “chemtrails”. And yet the article and the comments themselves have no basis in any contemporary science. Sad…. What in the World are They Spraying?-Prison Planet

    They are creating news article after news article for this video, seemingly having a promotional deal with the film. As they’re definitely promoting it.

  59. “They are creating news article after news article for this video, seemingly having a promotional deal with the film. As they’re definitely promoting it.”

    Thank goodness! The more people who know about the plight of the chemmies, the better! Maybe that way, someone they know and respect will finally hear of their misguided beliefs and show them the way to reality. It’s a long shot…but it could happen.

    Maybe someone else will find a better way of explaining the facts to these people in such a way that they don’t automatically block the truth out in favor of the paranoid fantasy.
    Or, maybe the release of this movie will result in BILLIONS of chemmies and they will start a revolution. Imagine that… The chemmies trigger Armageddon because they feel it’s easier to watch videos on youtube instead of learning the facts from those qualified to teach them. What a hilarious way for it all to come to an end!

  60. I try explaining it to them kindly, the best I can, but I have little respect for the ones that call me or others a cave man and stupid for not noticing contrails in the sky. And then just because one doesn’t agree, they give the person the paranoia stamp of shill or disinfo agent. Add to the fact, that there has yet to be one shred of evidence to support their claims. And then they build on their own fears with HAARP, another thing they have no idea about. I doubt they really understand the ionosphere, is with what this HAARP program is meant to interact.
    A chemtrail revolution? oh god… It will only be proof of the deterioration of mankind. Some of these things are more sad to me as I don’t understand how fundamental sciences aren’t taught. Basic fact finding tools too.

  61. I found an awesome contrail photo from an Antonov-225 here . 6 engines, 6 trails…. So cool… вообще класс… )

  62. “Some of these things are more sad to me as I don’t understand how fundamental sciences aren’t taught.”

    Oh, they are taught alright! But, the way people learn has a lot to do with it. Many students “believe” that they should learn the facts, pass the test…and move on. So they memorize facts for the exam but never actually apply the knowledge in a real world setting…and they then forget it. Honestly, I can’t blame them much…science is VERY boring if one is unable to properly visualize the concepts. So, they “learn” just enough to “get by” and then never look back. These people have convinced themselves that there is no need to understand the scientific facts! Besides, they have more important things to worry about…like “chemtrails” and FEMA camps.

  63. But memorizing answers for tests is not knowledge, it is just memorization. Science to me was never boring as Math… I found numbers boring and science brought math alive to me. I would fail as an economist. These people over estimate their knowledge and underestimate those who disagree with them. There is nothing wrong with keeping an eye on the government and keeping them in check, but they can get carried away with that.

    I am off a bit now to cook dinner, just got back from the city. I also found a cool contrail, I guess in a holding pattern because it is just a circle in the sky above my home. Photographed that… Upload it later. And as for those worrying about FEMA camps, they should be worried about the economy. Everywhere, it isn’t looking so bright. Those photos I already shared here, that’s where we grow our food. Its enough for the year. I think it is great thing to do and recommend those who are struggling economically during this more difficult time to try and their own food. There isn’t anything conspiring about that… Maybe they’d have less time to become paranoid over conspiracies. Benefits: feed family, exercise, fresh air, save money, and obviously fresh healthy food without huge amounts of pesticides and herbicides. )
    No, that would be too good… I think we’ll still have our entertainment… lol

  64. I have recently met a doctor, who talked extensively about how the common cold was spread through upper atmosphere aerosol spraying, this was startling news, these agents could very easily be spread with con trails , and this has been done many times for experiment, with living agents in released in clouds. This notion seemed very plausible, and also mixed with the barium, which have been supposedly found in many samples.Which would explain the tests in the 90’s of the living tissue, and links to this evolved Morgellons disease
    Also many of the Geo-engineering plans are for the covering of the entire sky with this white mix of these reflective metals and vapors, which is exactly what many of these con-trails do. So these projects could start with no one knowing wiser.This with the various leaked documents of people evolved in these projects, telling people that it is for there own good, and to save earth. These documents are very hard to find now which, could be because of there ‘sensitive nature’.
    Thank you all again i feel i am getting closer to understanding what is all this ridiculousness.
    thank you.

  65. Why aren’t the poeple in the video wearing respirators? Or gas masks? Or anything?

    That’s like trying to warn people about the dangers of smoking while smoking.

  66. Hey nony mouse wrote:

    “I have recently met a doctor, who talked extensively about how the common cold was spread through upper atmosphere aerosol spraying, this was startling news, these agents could very easily be spread with con trails , and this has been done many times for experiment, with living agents in released in clouds. ”

    Yes – way back in the 50’s and 60’s – see http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Military-Germs-US-Cities.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_biological_weapons_program

    Also of course one of the major risks associated with flight is airborne disease – but that is to the people on board, where the air is partly recirculated within the aircraft so you can get sseveral chances to breath in any given pathogen.

    “This notion seemed very plausible, and also mixed with the barium, which have been supposedly found in many samples.”

    by whom where? See this link here for hte most common one – which has ben shown to be completely wrong, and anyone still pushing it is immediately suspect: http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/

    “Which would explain the tests in the 90’s of the living tissue, and links to this evolved Morgellons disease”

    What tests in thde 90’s?

    morgellans disease is underinvestigation and sems to be linked with a well known range of psychological disorders – http://www.cdc.gov/unexplaineddermopathy/investigation.html

    “Also many of the Geo-engineering plans are for the covering of the entire sky with this white mix of these reflective metals and vapors, which is exactly what many of these con-trails do. So these projects could start with no one knowing wiser.”

    Except presumably that since people are talking about them they aren’t actually secret, and if they do start actually doing something there’ll have been an awful lot of discussion about it……

    “This with the various leaked documents of people evolved in these projects, telling people that it is for there own good, and to save earth. These documents are very hard to find now which, could be because of there ’sensitive nature’.”

    No they are not – they are easy to find because they are not secret and various “green” groups are all over them, and scientists are trying to make names for themselves in the area of geo-engineering, and there are NatGeo programmes on the TV & articles about them……eg http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/blogs/news/chiefeditor/2009/09/earths-future-may-rest-on-risk.html

    It’s really quite strange that you should describe all this easily obtained info as “leaks”, and “hard to find” when they are nothing of hte sort!

  67. Also there is more research on this Morgellons disease,i will also try to find more of this info to for you all, which has been scene even on trees and bushes now. This is very interesting, for many of the explanations of this disease seem to be that of psychological disorders, even going so far as saying that patients will these growths with the power of there mind, talk of ridiculous theories.
    thank you, again it is good to find a community here as interested in these topics.

  68. Oh i am sorry Mike i was talking of the upper atmosphere spraying tests in America in the 90’s of the living tissue, the red blood cells and the white blood cells, sprayed in upper atmosphere and raining down on town.Also carried out in India, more recently and well documented. Some tests in Sweden as well but on vegetable farms, and where also living. Thank you for your interest.

  69. I’ve seen some reports of the so-called synthetic red blood cells supposedly causing some disease or other – is that what you are talking about?

    IIRC there was no evidence offered either that the substance was red blood cells, or that there was any actual link between what it was and whatever the supposed disease was. Basically is was normal conspiracy stupidity – illogical premise, no actual connection shown between events, presumptive reasoning and no evidence at all.

    But by all means point us to some information about it.

  70. I couldn’t care less if chemtrails are only persistent contrails!
    If regular ass persistent contrails fuck up my beautiful afternoon sky, they should be stopped (by lower altitudes or whatever it takes rectify the nuisance).
    Come on, 200 people flying over my house everyday for private enterprise profits are allowed to change MY WEATHER at MY HOUSE?
    Have a nice day, if you can.

  71. Cheesedick – fair enough too!

    With the growth in air travel over the last 20-30 years there _are_ a lot more contrails than their used to be –

    “Today, the global airline industry consists of over 2000 airlines operating more than 23,000 aircraft, providing service to over 3700 airports. In 2006, the world’s airlines flew almost 28 million scheduled flight departures and carried over 2 billion passengers [1]. The growth of world air travel has averaged approximately 5% per year over the past 30 years, with substantial yearly variations due both to changing economic conditions and differences in economic growth in different regions of the world. Historically, the annual growth in air travel has been about twice the annual growth in GDP. Even with relatively conservative expectations of economic growth over the next 10-15 years, a continued 4-5% annual growth in global air travel will lead to a doubling of total air travel during this period.”

    http://web.mit.edu/airlines/analysis/analysis_airline_industry.html

    Some people think contrails are pretty – personally I’m with you – they spoil the sky!

    We could form a new force – Blue Sky Skeptics – Death to ugly contrails!

  72. cheesedick- oddly enouph, I kind of agree with you. regardless of any other supposed ramification the “sight pollution” is a valid claim. That or I’ve had too much to drink tonight. Neccassary sight pollution for the sake of decreased actual pollution- the verdict is out until tomorrow when my mind is clear.

  73. If avoiding contrail altitude was a priority, how much would it cost? Probably just a reasonable percentage.

    The problem is that it’s not in any individual airline’s interest to do it. So it would have to be legislated, which means there would have to be popular support for it. It seems unlikely that could happen – it’s just not that big an issue for most people. They don’t even notice.

  74. If my PV panels produce, say 30% less on CT days, an invoice could be sent to the airlines.
    Add to that, any viewshed considerations.

    If I drove a bus back and forth leaving a trail like that….pffft. I would be arrested.

  75. “If I drove a bus back and forth leaving a trail like that….pffft. I would be arrested.”

    I fear the emissions of any bus on the planet more than I fear the contents of any contrail ever made.

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