Brief Summary:
  • Samples of water were collected in August 2007, in Stamps Arkansas, by leaving some bowls outside for a month
  • The resultant dirty water was tested by KSLA and was found to have the same amount of barium in it as most municipal tap water.
  • The reporter misunderstood the results, and said there was a lot of Barium
  • The reporter now admits he was mistaken, and that he found no evidence for chemtrails

 

ksla-jar.jpg

Some conspiracy theorists think that persistent spreading contrails indicate some kind of deliberate aerial spraying, probably by the government. They speculate as to what could be in these trails, and one of the most common things they claim is barium.

Some people are so obsessed by this idea that they have rainwater tested to see if it has barium in it. They usually find some, and then trumpet this as evidence that their theory is correct.

Unfortunately they are wrong. I’ll explain why, but first, some basic science.

What is Barium?

Barium is a metal, like calcium. You never find it in its metal form (outside of a lab), as it oxidizes rapidly in the air. Instead you’ll find compounds, usually barium sulfate or barium carbonate. Barium compounds are used in the plastics, rubber, electronics and textile industries, in ceramic glazes and enamels, in glass-making, brick-making and paper-making, as a lubricant additive, in pharmaceuticals and cosmetics, in case-hardening of steel and in the oil and gas industry as a wetting agent for drilling mud. Barium in water comes primarily from natural sources as it is present as a trace element in both igneous and sedimentary rocks. Barium is generally present in air in particulate form as a result of industrial emissions, particularly from combustion of coal and diesel oil and waste incineration.

µ and Parts Per …

When you measure the concentration of a substance in water, you can express it in various ways. You have to pay attention to units when converting from one way to another.

A liter of water weighs 1 kilogram, which is 1000 grams.

A milligram is 1/1000th (a thousandth) of a gram. 1mg = 1 milligram = 0.001g

A microgram is 1/1000000 (a millionth) of a gram. 1ug = 1µg = 1 microgram

Note that last line, because it’s important. The symbol µ is the greek letter “mu”. In measuring, it’s used to mean “micro”, or “millionth”. (To type µ, hold down the Alt key, type 230 on the numeric keypad, and then release the Alt key). Since it’s difficult to type, it’s often written using the letter “u”. Make sure you understand the difference between a milligram (mg, 1/1000th or a gram) and a microgram (µg, ug, 1/1000000th of a gram). A milligram is thousandth, not a millionth. It’s a little confusing sometimes.

A microgram is a millionth of a gram, so it’s a billionth of a kilogram. Since there are 1000 grams in a kilogram, and 1,000,000 micrograms in a gram, there are 1,000,000,000 µg in a kilogram. All this is basic high school science.

Concentration in water is measured as ppm, ppb, g/L, mg/L, µg/L. These are parts per million, parts per billion, grams per liter, milligrams per liter and micrograms per liter. We can convert between these easily:
1 ppm = 1 mg/L = 1000 ppb = 1000 µg/L
1 ppb = 1 µg/L = 0.001 ppm = 0.001 mg/L
(remember that 1 Liter is 1000 grams, so 1 mg in one liter is a thousandth of a gram in one thousand grams, or 1 part in a million).

Chemtrail claims

This video is very popular right now. Claiming that water was analyzed and found to have barium in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okB-489l6MI

airteamimagescom.jpgThe video was taken in Stamps, Arkansas, which is not entirely surprising as that’s in a region of the US the might be renamed “Contrail Alley”. It’s at the intersection of the cross country routes between the West Coast, and the major airport in Atlanta, Orlando and Jacksonville. Stamps is midway between the two major regional VORs (Texarkana and El Dorado), right next to the major East-West airway Victor V278, and on the edge of a MOA that traffic has to skirt occasionally. It’s also directly below the Atlanta to Dallas, San Antonio to New York and Houston to Chicago flight routes. On just ONE of these routes (Atlanta to Dallas) there is a scheduled commuter flight, directly overhead, at contrail altitude every 15 minutes! The same frequency of flights is found on the Houston-Chicago route, which crosses at right angles almost exactly overhead. Hence, when the weather is right, it is inevitable that you will see contrails in a grid pattern, “a giant checkerboard”. See this Google Earth file: airlines-over-stamps.kmz

ksla-jar2.jpgBut back to the video. It shows a jar of dirty water (collected 9/1/2007), which was collected by Bill Nichols. He’s posted some comments on the YouTube video describing how he collected the water:

it was rainwater. i collected it in two separate bowls on the hood of a pickup truck in my backyard. we are 25 miles from the nearest interstate. this is a very poor county, the only industry is chickens, logging , farming, a little oil—no coal burners or anything like that. i wasn’t looking for attention. i was looking for answers, ksla said they would pay to get it tested. i dropped it off, and they asked my opinion

i put 2 clean bowls there specifically because i wanted to catch what was falling. i don’t recall exactly when i put the bowls there, but they were there for about a month before i contacted ksla. the goo that i caught was full of barium. have a cool day!

Pause for a second, and consider if you left a bowl out for the month of August in rural Arkansas, what would you expect to find in it after a month? Some dirty water? Perhaps a little dust? What’s dust made of outdoor? Dirt, dried topsoil. What would you expect to find in the dirt in Arkansas – one of the richest sources of barium in the US? You’d expect a bit of Barium – but did they actually find any more than you’d get in tap water?

This dirty water was tested, the test results are available in full here. You can also see the results in the video, at around 00:55 to 00:59. Here they are pieced together.

ksla-test-results.jpg

And just to be clear, here’s a closeup of the results, and the units:

ksla-test-results2.jpg

That’s quite straightforward right? Barium found at 68.8 µg/L. That’s 68.8 parts per billion. Now listen to the audio at that precise point (also transcribed on the KSLA web site):

“The results: a high level of barium, 6.8 parts per million (ppm), more than three times the toxic level set by the EPA”.

Immediately you can see something is wrong here. it’s 68.8, not 6.8, and it’s not parts per million, it’s parts per billion. So it’s actually 0.0688 parts per million.

And what of “three times the toxic level set by the EPA”? They are referring to the EPA Limits, as quoted by the CDC:

“The EPA has set a limit of 2.0 milligrams of barium per liter of drinking water (2.0 mg/L), which is the same as 2 ppm [parts per million].”

So the EPA limit is 2 ppm (2000 µg/L), and the tests actually found 0.0688 ppm (68.8 µg/L), just 3.4% of the allowable limit.

That limit’s not really a “toxic level” either. There’s no evidence that it would be toxic even at that level (which, remember, is 29 times higher than what was actually found). The world health organization has set a drinking water level of 7 ppm after doing studies into the health effects of barium.

Barium has always been in water

The WHO also reported on the barium levels in drinking water (meaning, from a tap, not some dirty puddle) and they found:

In a study of water supplies of cities in the USA, a median value of 43 μg/litre was reported; in 94% of all determinations, the concentrations found were below 100µg/litre (IPCS, 1990)

So the average was 43 µg/L, but most were below 100µg/L. This means the amount of Barium found in this supposed chemtrail residue was about the same as was found in the municipal water supplies in the US, back in 1990. This is pretty low, it varies with geography based on the type of rocks in the aquifer. In Tuscany, Italy, the Barium in drinking water was around 1000µg/L (1ppm), high, but still within safe limits.

The amount of barium will also vary based on the weather. Very heavy rains will leach more barium out into the groundwater. So you’d expect more barium after very rainy seasons. This is actually what you find if you look at the historical records in California (which has very uneven annual rainfall). You see spikes in barium whenever there is a wet year after a dry year. Recent years like these are 1991, 1995, 1998 and 2004 (2001 and 2003 also spiked to a lesser extent). The expected peaks were confirmed by the results of Rosalind Peterson at California Skywatch.

So what’s going on here? Chemtrail theorists are constantly claiming that “chemtrails” are made of barium, and that it’s affecting our health. But whenever water is tested, it is found to have perfectly normal levels of barium, which vary as expected based on the rainfall. In the cases where they claim it’s got an unusual amount, this is just a misunderstanding of the units and limits involved.

Yes, there is barium in the drinking water, there always has been, and always will be. Trace amounts, mostly from the environment and some industrial pollution. It’s a very small amount, and not dangerous. There is no evidence to suggest it has anything to do with “chemtrails.”

Update #1: 5/2/2009

Jeff Ferrall, the reporter in the story now says:

http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/comment-page-8/#comment-23164

Yes, I did make corrections to my first report, which originally aired almost 2-years ago now… after quickly realizing my very embarrassing mistake. I was not happy with myself. Unfortunately, the first version of my report got out to the internet before I could make the correction(s), and the wrong version is shown repeatedly.

My feeling is, and maybe you’d agree, that if such aerosol mixes were created and loaded into jets with either a separate/independent dispersal method other than the exhaust, or actually in the fuel itself… somewhere, somehow, you’d expect someone to talk. I have not heard that yet.

I also interviewed the scientist who originally patented what some believe was a precursor to so-called chemtrail technology. He’s a very kind, helpful man who could not have been more helpful. He says he knows nothing about any such conspiracy.

There’s also a mention of this story In Skeptical Enquirer magazine:
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/curious_contrails_death_from_the_sky/

Update#2: 3/14/2010

More people make the same mistake.  This time someone in Austrailia, and the story was picked up by a Los Angeles environmentalist.   Again mg is confused with µg, making the results 1000 times as high:

http://www.examiner.com/x-10438-Human-Rights-Examiner~y2010m3d13-video-White-Clouds-of-Death-Aussie-exposes-geoengineered-chemtrail-contents?#comments

  976 Responses to “Barium Chemtrails on KSLA”

  • Hello, isn’t it curious Lead shows a dangerous level but was not discussed? Did Ferrell hide the text “ug/l” next to the Lead 89.1 intentionally? Either way it’s still about 6 times too high is it not? How do you explain that?
    Thanks,
    Ron

    GeorgiaWeblog.com

  • Yes, it’s six times too high for the EPA limit for drinking water (15 ppb). But unfortunately it’s not at all unusual for levels actually found in municipal water supplies (the standard was reduced in 1991 from 50 to 15). See:

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/233287_lead20.html

    Also remember this is water from a bowl that was left out on the hood of a pickup truck for over a month – which means the particulates from the air would be vastly more concentrated than found in a direct rainwater sample.

  • 100LL is the most widely used piston engine aircraft fuel and although it’s listed as LL (low lead) it still contains up to 0.56 grams of lead per liter. About 97 percent of gasoline used
    in piston-engine powered aircraft is leaded avgas, mostly 100LL. The remaining three percent is ethanol-free unleaded automotive gasoline (mogas).
    http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-AIR/2007/November/Day-16/a22456.htm

  • I understand what you are saying, but what’s the broader point? Do you think that aviation fuel is contributing significantly to the amount of lead in drinking water? Does this have anything to do with contrails or “chemtrails”?

  • Yeah, the dude is a dunce and the reporter f’d up…but there is a history of US military experiements involving barium clouds. The below is a link to a military database for scientific research:

    http://stinet.dtic.mil/stinet/jsp/docread.jsp?K2DocKey=http%3A%2F%2Fstinet.dtic.mil%2Fstinet%2FXSLTServlet%3Fad%3DADA055969%40trA-search&Format=1F&Custom=&querytext=clouds+barium&AD=ADA055969&TI=Ion+Cloud+Modeling.&RD=November+11%2C+1977&DC=%26nbsp%3B+%26nbsp%3B+%26nbsp%3B+%26nbsp%3B+%26nbsp%3B+01+-+APPROVED+FOR+PUBLIC+RELEASE&XPC=&PAG=92+Pages%28s%29&MC=&PE=&idx=9

    not saying that proves anything about chemtrails, this is documentation that the military has experiemented with atmospheric barium ion clouds. If you search http://stinet.dtic.mil for “barium cloud” you’ll find a few results.

    Just sayin.

  • nice joke at an attempt to “debunk” chemtrails…we already have the hint of whats going on and youre not fooling anyone with your sarcastic bad science. Here ill recommend something for ya. Go type in google Chemtrails.

  • thank you for a different viewpoint other than everything-is-crazy-we-are-all-going-to-die!!!

  • more of goverment shills trying to dis credit people

    TELL US THE TRUTH AND STOP SPAYING US LIKE INSECTS.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=okB-489l6MI

  • Wildwelder, the video you are linking is discussed and debunked in the post you are commenting on! (Scroll up to the top of this page and start reading).

  • dude you can say it is “debunked” all you want here in arizona especially the phoenix area “they”start spraying on monday morning at 0800 am ,spray until sunset,then start again on tuesday am untill sunset and wednesday we have overcast skies,people cannot breathe ,and “oh”it is a miracle”we are going to get rain in the south of our state and snow up north!!
    say what you want “they”are spraying us like insects.

  • I’m afraid you are mistaking normal contrails for some kind of spraying. Do you have any evidence, such as photos or videos?

  • F Y I IT IS 1133 AM AZ TIME WE WOKE UP TODAY TO A CLEAR BLUE SKY ,NOTHING NO SPRAYING OR CLOUDS
    SEEMS KIND OF ODD THAT MONDAY AND TUESDAY WE WITNESSED MULTIPLE AIR CRAFT SPRAYING ALL DAY AND INTO THE NIGHT AND NOW TODAY 2/21/08 NOTHING!!!!

  • Is it also odd that one day is cloudy and the next is sunny?

    The weather changes from day to day, even hour to hour. The formation of persistent contrails depends on the weather (at the jet’s altitude). So as the weather changes, the amount and type of contrails changes.

  • I LIVE ON THE BACK-SIDE OF THE HOLLYWOOD HILL,OVER LOOKING THE
    ENTIRE SAN FERNANDO VALLY..I AM UP 200 FT. PLUS OFF THE VALLY
    FLOOR. I CAN SEE TO THE WEST,THE NORTH AND THE EAST 20 MILES
    PLUS..ALMOST EVERY MORN. EARLY,THE TRAILS START TO BE MADE IN
    THE EAST..I FILM IT. THE CHEMICAL HAZE FLOATS WEST. TOWARDS ME.
    TODAY ALL DAY THE ENTIRE VALLY WAS CRISS CROSSED WITH C.T.’S
    3/19/08 [email protected] STUDIO CITY

  • George, here’s two satellite photos taken on that day. When you are on the ground you can only see a very small part of the big picture. The first picture is earlier in the day, see how there is a lot of cloud inland, especially to the north and east of the Valley. It would be cloudy like this regardless of if there were contrails or not.

    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?AERONET_La_Jolla/2008079/AERONET_La_Jolla.2008079.terra.1km.jpg
    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?AERONET_La_Jolla/2008079/AERONET_La_Jolla.2008079.aqua.1km.jpg

    For comparison, here’s yesterday’s shots of Western Africa (Nigeria), which has a similar coastline (but more tropical).
    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?NAfrica_3_04/2008079/NAfrica_3_04.2008079.terra.1km.jpg
    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?NAfrica_3_04/2008079/NAfrica_3_04.2008079.aqua.2km.jpg

  • Uncinus, Uncinus, Uncinus,
    It is so obvious what is taking place right in front of our eyes. All you have to do is just look up. I live in Redding Ca. where the spraying is very heavy almost daily. Today in fact, is one of only 3 days in the last month that we have not been bombarded with this stuff. You can literally watch the poison drip down out of the sky. Coincidently, the planes are always white with no markings. They average at least one every 10 minutes. We do not have that many commercial flights scheduled over us every day. When a commercial flight does fly over, it does not leave the so called “persistent contrail”. Why all of a sudden are the contrails “persistent” now? Contrails do not continue to grow and spread to connect with other contrails until the entire sky is a blanket of this stuff. It also has a distinctive odor to it. An odor that is only present when this stuff is in the air. Take a pair of binoculars and position yourself so that there is a blockage between you and the sun. Look towards the sun behind the blockage like the corner of the house. Slowly bring the binoulars from behind the blockage just until the corona of the sun appears. Be careful not to look directly into the sun. What you will see are the fibers floating through the air if there has been spraying previously. On heavy spray days there is a spike in absent employees where I work, they all report the same symptons. Mostly respiratory issues, fatigue, migrane headaches etc. I have missed 2 days myself this month already. There may be certain conditions where contrails may linger in the air longer than usual, but not every day. This happens on hot dry days and on humid days, which are becoming more rare. On days that rain is predicted all we get is a few drops if any at all. The barium sucks the moisture right out of the clouds as it oxidizes in the air. All you are doing by posting your scripted propaganda is making it obvious to everyone that your purpose on this blog is to debunk chemtrails no matter what anyone says. These clouds do not look like normal clouds, they do not behave like normal clouds and they only form after there has been a period of spraying. You even go so far as to try to convince people that barium has always been in our environment and our drinking water as if it is a normal occurrence and it is o.k. to ingest it. I could go on and on debunking you Mr. Uncinus., but you are not convincing anyone with your lies. You are trying to convince people that what they are witnessing with their own eyes is not really happening. Well, it is happening! Open your eyes and look! It is that simple.

  • rudedog, Redding actually has a HUGE amount of commercial flights over it, mostly north-south.

    How many flights do you think there are just from Los Angeles to Seattle (and back) every day?

    Really, how many? How many per hour.

    Then what about the other cities? San Francisco, Portland, San Diego, Vancouver. They all fly over Redding.

  • I do not see any clouds, only man made aerosols, even if you like to call them contrails the fact stands NASA classification is that they are man made and cause global warming! We no longer have natural clouds or very minimal.

    Uncinus

    George, here’s two satellite photos taken on that day. When you are on the ground you can only see a very small part of the big picture. The first picture is earlier in the day, see how there is a lot of cloud inland, especially to the north and east of the Valley. It would be cloudy like this regardless of if there were contrails or not.

    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?AERONET_La_Jolla/2008079/AERONET_La_Jolla.2008079.terra.1km.jpg
    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?AERONET_La_Jolla/2008079/AERONET_La_Jolla.2008079.aqua.1km.jpg

    For comparison, here’s yesterday’s shots of Western Africa (Nigeria), which has a similar coastline (but more tropical).
    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?NAfrica_3_04/2008079/NAfrica_3_04.2008079.terra.1km.jpg
    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?NAfrica_3_04/2008079/NAfrica_3_04.2008079.aqua.2km.jpg

  • Where don’t you see any clouds? I see a lot in the satellite photos. Only a minisule percentage of them are from contrails on that particular day (and pretty much non in Africa, as far as I can tell).

  • How can you be so sure of that? That is like saying they are chemtrails, haha, just by looking at an image.

  • http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/realtime/single.php?2008106/crefl2_143.A2008106074500-2008106074959.500m.jpg

    This image for example shows older aerosols are nicely morphing into spanned out aerosols (clouds) it must have taken some hours for this to happen under the right conditions, along with the right amount of air traffic, no?

  • Thanks for the prompt replies, here is a better example although not contrails the image is clearer.
    http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/CALIPSO/CALIPSO2.php

    Do you have a Global Warming Science section on the site covering such research on contrail effects?

  • Can you explain what you mean by “aerosols”. The photos you link to look like normal clouds to me – can you explain what about them looks man-made?

  • Why not ask NASA what they mean about aerosols, or any University or government meteorology agency that researches weather modification or clouds. They will explain better, also ask a scientist about their definition of a standard contrail. Not me, you need to know this more than me for this site. And on the global warming issue as well, NASA know so much more on this along with meteorologists at various Universities that study the effects.

  • I wouldn’t want to offend a partial blind person but I would bet they could even see trails in the image.
    http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/1000/1967/PIA03433_lrg.jpg

    Thanks for linking to various NASA links, I found that some aerosol trails exist in the atmosphere from temperatures of 7 degrees celsius up to 17 degrees celsius with, also the difference of humidity and temperature is different depending on the size of clouds or span and widths of aerosol trails.

  • I know what the definition of an aerosol is, I wanted to know what YOU meant by it.

    An aerosol is a suspension of fine solid or liquid droplets in a gas.

    Clouds are suspensions of tiny drops of water in the air.

    So, clouds are aerosols, normal, everyday clouds. Also contrails are aerosols.

    You keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.

    The photo you link do does not show contrails, it shows ship trails. A similar end result, but a different mechanism. See here:

    http://www.spc.noaa.gov/coolimg/shiplume/shiploop.htm
    (page takes a while to load, but has a nice animation of ship trails being formed)

  • An aerosol is a general broad term, it could be invisible particulate pollutants, chemicals, bio contaminants that spread through other contaminants. But I meant condensation trail aerosols and the ability to trap in heat causing global warming. On the other hand other scientists both governmental and non governmental talk about other uses.

    A European scientist offered an option of using offshore aerosol precipitation stations in the 1980′s that had constant feeds from the sea water for aerolizing of particles to cause artificial clouds (aerosols) to cause more global cover and bounce out light to attempt to cool the world. Anyway why one would want this when there is still no verified solid scientific evidence of global warming or global cooling seems very unnecessary, but then it is not the only technology type being proposed or forced on us daily.

    http://newyorkskywatch.com/climate-engineers-war-profit-survival

    I think you may have a closed mind, given the governmental and scientific community that have been discussing such forms of geoengineering for decades. Do you really think any government allows disclosure, no they use secret information act law, if anyone talks that works on such projects they go to jail. the same applies to contractors that work with anti terrorism projects. It is a military defense operation, under national security protocol.

    I won’t waste any more typing on this here though. Even if water was being sprayed in the atmosphere via military tankers this would still concern me very much and is something I would want to be informed about. Just as I want complete disclosure on all research of the effects of global contrails on the biosphere.

  • Aha, so by “aerosols”, you mean “contrails” and “aviation induced cirrus”.

    People make speculative plans for all kinds of things. There was a plan to rocket nuclear waste into outer space. These are just early stages of ideas. People think more about them, and decide if they should do them or not.

    There is LOTS of research on the effects of of global contrails on the biosphere. Mostly it focuses on pollution, and the effects on the climate, as that’s what causes changes in the biosphere. Here’s a good place to start:

    http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc/aviation/003.htm

    You ask for “complete disclosure”, but what if they told you they were not doing any spraying, and that the contrails are not deliberate attempts to alter the climate, then what would you do?

  • I fail to see how comparisons with tap water, especially American tap water, the water you get fromyour taps is some of the more heavily bastardised in the world, can prove or disprove anything…

    perhaps it should be compared to the clean rain water, purified by nature that falls from the sky here in NZ… i could send you some from milford sound, they average over 6m/year, the rain clouds come in from the west where there is but ocean for 1,500+ Kilometres

  • The point is that barium is found naturally in the environment – in the air, the ground and the water. It also varies greatly by location. There are a lot of barium mines in Arkansas, so you would expect to find more barium in the air there.

    And, if you read the details, very little barium was actually found in the sample tested. Especially when you consider it was collected by leaving a bowl out in the yard for over a month. You might want to try that, and see what the resultant water look like.

  • Thank you Uncinus for your patience and clarity. Reason and logic are no longer valued in our culture — feelings and mythologies seem to have won out over science. I mean, it’s much easier to believe in spooky “chemtrails” than to educate one’s self.

    Keep up the good work.

  • This thread seems to have devolved into circular logic.

    Water is a chemical, too. Therefore, water alone = chemtrail. Add some jet fuel exhaust, and yup … still chemicals… still chemtrail.

    I’m not sure that arguing whether or not there are enough particles-per-million to harm humans, or why they would be dispersed, have anything to do with the primary argument that the trails are chemicals – regardless if they are dangerous chemicals or not.

    It’s a big semantics game.

    But, regardless what you like to call them, the trails impact the environment. Cities frequently pass ordinances to eliminate signage because it creates unsightly “clutter.” Despite businesses’ objections, the public has consistently voted for less clutter. How is this any different?

    The lines are ugly, and have unknown long-term effects. Commerce is not that important. In fact, its primarily human commerce that kicks up all the dangerous elements in our environment. From man-made chemicals and compounds to the constant churning of sea and soil, we truly ARE doomed to die at our own hands.

    But, not today.

    Go outdoors and live while you still have a life. Give me a sky full of chemtrails over this stupid telescreen any day.

  • Point well taken Drumz….get of the computer and go outside (only look up if you want to :)

    sure…any trail created by man is a “chemtrail” – but the essence of the implication of what the word “chemtrail” insinuates…at least in the imagination of the internet…is what the drives the argument…

    …the difference between a negative externality as economists would call it- an unintended consequence of air travel and a directed, covert and deliberate global spraying operation of unknown purpose and origin…is huge.

    …and yet the reality remains that the existence of a nefarious, global spraying campaign of unknown origin and purpose is highly dubious in the light of no actual evidence truly exists as the supposed “evidence” (the trails) are not distinguishable from benign trails.

  • Keep up good work, Uncinus! I am a Finnish flight instructor and I can tell you guys that these claims&conspiracies about “chemtrails” do make great laughs here in Europe :D Well, all the people aren’t that sophisticated…

    I have seen all kinds of contrails, persistent and less persistent, narrow and wide, straight and checkerboard. They’ve been all the same in 80′s, 90′s and now. The amount has increased,

    Paperclip contrails are quite common here in Europe. Due to heavy air traffic and different (from US) ATC procedures planes have to fly holding patterns near airports, and that creates racetrack/paperclip contrails.

    Three years ago I was backpacking through China, and I visited very sparsely populated mountainous areas in provinces of Sichuan and Yunnan. I did see persistent contrails there, spreading over the the sky. Do you think that the US Gov is poisoning Chinese people? Or is it the Kinks Gov poisoning its own people? Maybe in co-operation with yankees? And China is not the only place: persistent contrails are a common sight here in Scandinavia (with 7 inhabitants per square kilometre…). I’ve seen them even in the sky of Russia! Almighty US Gov poisoning Joe, Lars, Zhou and Vladimir! Holy hand grenade, we are all about to die!

    Wake up, dumbasses!!! The entire world is laughing at your claims about “your own government spreading chemicals into the atmosphere, controlling the weather” Besides flying, I do teach meteorology for student pilots aiming to Airline Transport Pilot’s license, and I can confirm that the answers written by Uncinus are completely right. Aviation kerosene JET A1 is basically the same substance as diesel fuel, and the description of burning process and formation of contrail clouds is correct. You may disagree with me and Uncinus, but you are wrong. We are right. As simple as that.

    Blue skies!
    Ville
    CPL FI(A)

  • “Wake up, dumbasses!!! The entire world is laughing at your claims about “your own government spreading chemicals into the atmosphere, controlling the weather” Besides flying, I do teach meteorology for student pilots aiming to Airline Transport Pilot’s license, and I can confirm that the answers written by Uncinus are completely right. Aviation kerosene JET A1 is basically the same substance as diesel fuel, and the description of burning process and formation of contrail clouds is correct. You may disagree with me and Uncinus, but you are wrong. We are right. As simple as that.”

    Love the us vs them mentality.

    Although I think skepticism is an admirable thing, why do you think it is so ridiculous that governments would not take extreme measures to battle an extreme problem such as solar radiation and/or climate change? Your all or nothing attitude implying that either we agree with you, or we are 100% wrong is a problematic viewpoint. It would be preferable if you remained skeptical while still entertaining the perspective that governments are very interested in technology capable of manipulating the weather.

    Releasing aerosols into the upper atmosphere has been discussed in the scientific literature for a very long time now, and it is important to consider that testing has been done on this in the past, and will continue in the future.

    Calling them “chemtrails” is probably a foolish idea, because this is a geo-engineering project.

    I do not dispute that persisting contrails probably are a fairly normal thing. However, that being stated, they are being dispersed in a way that creates artificial cloud cover. Furthermore, it is likely that particulates are being released into the atmosphere as a part of experimentation with scalar technology and/or HAARP.

    If you find this to be science fiction, perhaps you should visit your local geophysics department and discuss these things. In addition to my own visual observations, I have conducted a fair bit of research on weather modification. This HAS NOT increased my skeptical view, but rather, it made me realize that such things are likely possible, and could be occurring as a test or a fully operational covert program. Here are some of the most intriguing documents I have come across so far that raise these concerns:

    I would like to know what you skeptics think of articles such as “Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather by 2025″ which is an unclassified “fictional” account of technological capabilities and goals of the USA military.

    You may read this here: http://csat.au.af.mil/2025/volume3/vol3ch15.pdf

    Quite a fascinating document if you ask me.

    Or the initial draft of HR (Space Preservation Act 2001) that defined “chemtrails” as an exotic weapon system. Interesting. The bill was later changed and chemtrails was omitted. I wonder why.

    You may read that one here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2001/hr2977.html

    Type in “geoengineering” into http://scholar.google.ca/ and you find loads of information in the scientific literature that discusses this issue.

    In a recent report concerning geoengineering, the ETC group mentions that there are many crazy proposals to combat global climate change, including the “polluting of the upper atmosphere with reflective particulates” when they discuss the recent decision to ban ocean fertilization. Hopefully they tackle the illegal weather manipulation next !

    You may view that issue here: http://www.etcgroup.org/en/issues/geoengineering.html

    The ETC group also has some fascinating perspectives on biopiracy and genetic engineering that are EXCELLENT reads.

    I mean I really could go on. I could list the bills and acts that permit weather manipulation, etc. I don’t really know how much documentation it would take for anyone to consider this is possible/occurring.

    Let’s MOVE ON from the contrail/chemtrail garbage, and focus on the real experiments that are occurring in our upper atmosphere.

    You can discount what I say if you would like, and call me a crazy conspiracy theorist, an idiot, ignorant, stupid, gullible, etc. I really don’t care, all I want is the truth exposed. I have unanswered questions that will not be ameliorated by people laughing at me and saying “Those are clouds you idiot” or “Open your eyes those are normal contrails”.

    Sure maybe they ARE CLOUDS and they ARE CONTRAILS, but they are ARTIFICIALLY CREATED FOR PURPOSES NOT REVEALED TO US BY THE GOVERNMENT.

    The US and UK governments sprayed their populations for decades with chemicals and biological agents without their consent. The US government experimented on their prison populations, those deemed to be mentally ill, and US soldiers without their knowledge or consent. All of these actions occurred after the Nuremberg / Helsinki codes of the ethical guidelines for testing on human subjects. Tuskagee? Must I continue? This is all documented for anyone who cares to look into it.

    If you really trust the USAF and NASA for that matter… I’m sorry to hurl this at you, but you’re naive. They lie frequently, and it is important to question everything your government tells you. As “well intentioned” they may be, they would have no qualms about testing things on us secretly without our consent.

    You tell US to wake up? Maybe YOU should wake up and start asking these important questions yourself. Might be a better pass time rather than debunking people who are trying to expose this program, whatever it may be for.

    Unless that is your job of course, which I don’t especially doubt either given the past behavior of government agencies.

    Peace to you friends. I hope you start opening your eyes and asking these important questions.

    I would like those who are conducting these “tests” or programs to know that we are watching you. :)

    I AM A SCIENTIST WITH ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO GAIN, AND REALLY, EVERYTHING TO LOSE FROM MAKING THESE “OUTRAGEOUS” CLAIMS, WHAT ARE YOUR MOTIVATIONS BEHIND THIS WEBSITE???

    All I could find is this:

    “ContrailScience.com is just a place where I write about contrails and science – which also includes some looking at the “chemtrails” theory, and pseudoscience.

    Email comments:

    [email protected]

    PLEASE STATE ANY CONFLICTS OF INTEREST! I applaud skepticism, but it quickly can turn into DENIAL.

  • Academianon, that’s a lot of speculation about things that the government MIGHT be doing. But you don’t present any actual evidence.

    You said:

    I do not dispute that persisting contrails probably are a fairly normal thing. However, that being stated, they are being dispersed in a way that creates artificial cloud cover.

    Contrails sometimes persist and spread out and create cloud cover. This has been observed since at least the 40s. Have you read these articles and newspaper accounts:

    http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/

    I’d be happy to discuss things for which there is actual evidence.

    I don’t have a conflict of interest. I’m just a pilot who is interested in the weather, specifically clouds and contrails, and I blog about it.

    HR2977 was covered here:
    http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/

    “Weather as force multiplier” was a thought experiment, not a statement of intent. Read the conclusion – they specifically explain why they would NOT perform large-scale weather modifications. Their focus was on local battleground advantage – like cloud seeding to create cover.

    The tests you mention involved tracer elements – thought to be harmless at the time. They were not testing things on the public, they were testing how far they would spread so they could formulate a defense.

    Speculation is all very well. But you need to have some actual physical evidence – like observations that show that “chemtrails” are not normal contrails. All the evidence so far suggest that that’s exactly what they are.

  • I just wanted to say thanks for fighting the good fight against misinformation. Great post and follow-up comments.

  • evidence of barium aerosol can be found here. Notable is that this is a Government source admitting barium use that includes the word ‘etc.’ with regards to the use of an barium aerosol spray;

    Originally Posted by NIH
    The high levels of Ba stemmed from local quarrying for Ba ores and/or
    use of Ba in paper/foundry/welding/textile/oil and gas well related
    industries, as well as from the use of Ba as an atmospheric aerosol
    spray for enhancing/refracting the signalling of radio/radar waves
    along military jet flight paths, missile test ranges, etc.

    I’m a little curious what the etc. refers to.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15082100?dopt=Abstract

    A barium/heated metals link to disease
    http://www.markpurdey.com/pdf/metal_microcrystal_tse.pdf
    Please note that sources mentioned includes industrial /
    manufacturing but also mentions ‘atmospheric discharge’ and
    munitions explosions.

    I am still combing through data to find the government admission on the use of aerosols as a communications tool during
    Desert Storm. I believe the above NIH post is directly related.
    The actual statement of contrails being used is still being searched for by me (I am getting closer)

    Regards,
    Bryansail

  • Uncinus,
    The cloud seeding thing is old news and is now available for private corporations, such as where Wyoming tries to increase their snowpack to lure more tourists to ski Jackson Hole. …Montana state officials not too happy about it either lol.

    Artificial ducting, creating plasma fields, and utilizing and enhancing the electro-magnetic properties of the
    atmosphere suggest strongly that atmospheric mitigation is much more than a ‘thought experiment.’
    The data on atmospheric moderation is overwhelmingly advanced beyond the ‘theoretical’ realm and
    has been for many decades. The development of enhanced weather modification is available
    to you and everyone through thousands of atmospheric papers and abstracts available as well as a close
    examination of HAARP.

    Regards,
    Bryansail

  • That is very much NOT a government source admitting barium use. It’s an opinion piece written by an English farmer, Mark Purdy, published in a journal (Medical Hypoteses) that specializes in speculative and non-mainstream medical theories.

    The fact that it is indexed by the NIH does not constitute any kind of connection with the government. The NIH simply indexes everything.

  • Barium is the least of the problem. They did not mention the red blood cells and pathogens in those chemicals.
    and why they always spray this crap over populated areas? and what is all the secrecy about?
    Ozone hole my a**. the supposed hole is over the south pole or Australia why the hell spraying the northern hemisphere?
    Global warming is another Hoax! It is BS. dig NASA for some valid info if you can and you will find that the sun has been getting hotter for the bast 100 years (about the same time these british-israeli bastards took over America) and the frozen lakes around one of the Jupiter’s moon has melted, is that because some ppl drive SUVs o earth too? WTH?
    don’t beieve anything you hear from main stream media liars. they are owned by the same british-israeli bastards.

    any ways..
    You know if the govts do anything for the good of the people which I have not seen lately, they would announce the hell out of it until we get sick and tired of hearing about it , then they use that to raise the taxes (again) now these planes cost $20,000 dollars Per Day, Per Flight ,Each! They come every day (7 days a week) and spray and there are many planes , …it adds up to millions of dollars per week, who is paying for all that?

    And for those fools who think this is normal contrail (water vapor/condensation) I ask why then there are NO trails off the passenger jets which fly at almost the same altitude and at the same time??!!
    And why they turn around and come back ? dont they need to go some damn place?
    and why the trails spread like cancer over the skies above? are you blind or stupid or both?
    until the sky is hazy and the beautiful blue asky has this shi**y color to it?
    you must also be color blind too (no that goes back to being retarded/stupid)! bcs I dont think anyone can make a mistake about the discolored skies!

  • Barium is the least of the problem. They did not mention the red blood cells and pathogens in those chemicals.

    Nothing like that has been found. That’s an urban legend. Show the actual lab report if you disagree.

    and why they always spray this crap over populated areas?

    Look at some satellite photos. Contrail coverage is evenly spread.

    and what is all the secrecy about?

    That’s the heart of your problem here. CONTRAILS ARE NOT DELIBERATE SPRAYING, so obviously the government denies it. It’s not secrecy, they are simply telling the true in this matter.

    Ozone hole my a**. the supposed hole is over the south pole or Australia why the hell spraying the northern hemisphere?

    Again you make an assumption. If you can’t actually show that spraying is going on, it’s rather pointless to speculate as to the reasons why.

    You know if the govts do anything for the good of the people which I have not seen lately, they would announce the hell out of it until we get sick and tired of hearing about it

    The fact that you’ve not heard about it is very good evidence that they are not doing it. (In addition to all the other evidence, see this site for examples).

    And for those fools who think this is normal contrail (water vapor/condensation) I ask why then there are NO trails off the passenger jets which fly at almost the same altitude and at the same time??!!

    They are not at the same altitude, or they have different engines.

    And why they turn around and come back ? dont they need to go some damn place?

    Not the same plane – there has NEVER been a video that shows a plane “coming back”. Yes, planes from Chicago need to get to New York, but the planes from New York also need to get to Chicago. The use the same flight path (one a thousand feet or so above the other), so when they cross over near the horizon, it might look like one is “coming back”, but you don’t actually see them turn around, do you? Otherwise there would be videos.

    and why the trails spread like cancer over the skies above?
    until the sky is hazy and the beautiful blue sky has this shi**y color to it?

    Contrails are clouds. Sometimes clouds spread out to cover the sky. They have always done this, and there are accounts of it happening dating back to 1941. It’s just normal cloud cover. Any discoloration comes from dust, fire smoke, or industrial pollution.

  • Why do you people waste your time arguing with Uncinus. It is obvious what his purpose is here. He could have a chemtrail shoot out his ass and he would still debunk it. The fact is, he is actually trying to convince you that what you are seeing with your own eyes, breathing with your own lungs, smelling with your own nose etc. is not really happening. It’s just your wild imagination trying to concoct a conspiracy. Why? Because you have nothing else in your life to worry about since George Bush has taken office. You are a sick man mr. uncinus. Somewhere out there are members of your family being poisoned also. Oh, by the way, has anyone wondered where the funding for this massive operation comes from? Well, thats the sickest part of it all because it comes from you. Thats right. you are paying for your own extermination and there is nothing you can do about it. How f’ d up is that?

  • I live in northern ca. I have been watching the chemtrails suck the moisture out of our sky for a couple of years now. It is no coincidence that we are now having record low rainfalls and are in a drought. It is also no coincidence that the entire area is now on fire as a result of it. It is only the beginning of summer and already we have seen the worst fire season ever recorded and we are just beginning our fire season. These climate changes are not a coincidence as mr uncinus would like you to believe. It is a direct result of the massive spraying that occurs here on a daily basis. Mr. uncinus wants you to believe that it is not actually happening. He wants you to be compliant and take your poison like a good little insect and quit complaining about it because if you do then you are just another whacko conspiracy theorist. The only reason that some of you actually listen to uncinus is because the reality of what is happening is so horrendous that it could not possibly be happening. It is much more comfortable to believe that something like this could never happen, therefore it doesn’t exist. Thats o.k. if you want to live in that world. However, there are plenty of people that still exist with strong enough minds to distinguish fantasy from reality. Sometimes I wonder if that is a good thing or a bad thing. It would be a lot more comfortable to live in your fantasy world because the truth sucks.

  • rudedog, if your theory was correct then the rainfall figures would show a significant decline over the period that you claim chemtrails have been operating. That makes it a “good” theory, in the sense that it is testable.

    Unfortunately, the records don’t actually show any decline, they just show the normal year to year fluctuations that California is famous for. Years of heavy rainfall then years of low rainfall- that what has been observed here for a hundred years.

    So the current weather is not really very unusual. Look at things from a long term. Even if we were in a period of drought, is that so odd? There were multi-year droughts in 1929-34, 1976-77, and 1987-92 so why not now?

    Have a look at this page for some actual data:

    http://watersupplyconditions.water.ca.gov/background.cfm

    Note particularly the graph at the top, which shows the yearly precipitation from 1989 to 2000. See how it varies from the average? That’s all you are seeing now, just normal yearly variation.

  • CONCLUSIONS OF “WEATHER AS A FORCE MULTIPLIER: OWNING THE WEATHER IN 2025″

    Stop your mis/dis-information

    The conclusions of the report are as follows:

    - Manipulation of cloud cover is the primary capability at the time of this report (1996)
    - As technologies develop, direct intervention in storms would be a desired asset of the USAF
    - Importance of detecting / countering weather modification is necessary
    - Space weather modification is a goal
    - Have to do weather modification because it’s going to be developed anyways
    - Economic and defensive benefits to developing this tech

    “The ability to modify the weather may be
    desirable both for economic and defense reasons.” (p. 34)

    “Efforts are already under way to create more comprehensive weather models primarily to improve
    forecasts, but researchers are also trying to influence the results of these models by adding small amounts of
    energy at just the right time and space. These programs are extremely limited at the moment and are not yet
    validated, but there is great potential to improve them in the next 30 years.” (p. 35)

    “The lessons of history indicate a real weather-modification capability will eventually exist despite the
    risk. The drive exists. People have always wanted to control the weather and their desire will compel them
    to collectively and continuously pursue their goal. The motivation exists.” (p. 35)

    “But, while offensive weather modification efforts would certainly be undertaken by US forces with great caution and trepidation, it is clear that we cannot afford to allow an adversary to obtain an exclusive weather-modification capability.” (p. 35)

    So where in the conclusions of this report does it say that they won’t be doing things like this? Reads more like bogus military-industrial complex justification for WHY they SHOULD be doing this.

    http://csat.au.af.mil/2025/volume3/vol3ch15.pdf

    TRUTH CANNOT BE SUPPRESSED

    Are you going to call this science fiction again? Or are you actually going to develop a new argument? Are things busy over there lately?

    WIKILEAKS.ORG

    ALL WHISTLE BLOWERS ARE HEROES

  • I’m glad you brought up Wikileaks, as the strongest evidence that there is no US government conspiracy is that there are no “chemtrail” documents on Wikileaks.

    “Weather as a Force Multiplier” is also very good evidence AGAINST chemtrails, as nothing in that report, even the wildest speculation, even remotely resembles what people are describing as “chemtrails”. They are also pretty open about the type of things they MIGHT be doing.

    One important mistake people often make about “Weather as a Force Multiplier .. in 2025″ is that it somehow reflects what the military IS doing, when the paper is entirely speculative, and represents what they MIGHT be doing in 2025. It’s not official policy, it’s just an academic research paper. In fact, it says:

    Presented on 17 June 1996, this report was produced in the Department of Defense school
    environment of academic freedom and in the interest of advancing concepts related to national defense. The
    views expressed in this report are those of the authors and do not reflect the official policy or position of the
    United States Air Force, Department of Defense, or the United States government.

    This report contains fictional representations of future situations/scenarios. Any similarities to real people or
    events, other than those specifically cited, are unintentional and are for purposes of illustration only.

    And, as already noted, it does not describe ANYTHING like “chemtrails”.

  • So where in the conclusions of this report does it say that they won’t be doing things like this?

    It says it on page 6:

    However, for several reasons described
    below, this paper focuses primarily on localized and short-term forms of weather-modification and how
    these could be incorporated into war-fighting capability. The primary areas discussed include generation and
    dissipation of precipitation, clouds, and fog; modification of localized storm systems; and the use of the
    ionosphere and near space for space control and communications dominance. These applications are
    consistent with CJCSI 3810.01, “Meteorological and Oceanographic Operations.”11
    Extreme and controversial examples of weather modification—creation of made-to-order weather,
    large-scale climate modification, creation and/or control (or “steering”) of severe storms, etc.—were
    researched as part of this study but receive only brief mention here because, in the authors’ judgment, the
    technical obstacles preventing their application appear insurmountable within 30 years.

    So, you tell me, which of the above has anything to do with “Chemtrails”?

  • still spewing your coverup propaganda mr. uncinus? Meanwhile the area I live in is still suffering from the daily attacks of your so called “contrails”. Amazing how water vapors can congeal until they literally drip out of the sky. Also amazing how they continue to expand until the sky is completely blanketed regardless of the humidity or temperature conditions. How dare you tell us victims that this living hell that has become our reallity is not really happening. We are all just by coincindence imagining the same thing. Thats one hell of a coincindence wouldn’t you say? The fact is, uncinus has not said one thing to prove that his ‘contrail’ theory is real. He is just countering anything associated with chemtrails and assuming that what we are seeing is water vapors. Based on what? He is not here with us experiencing it. So without any proof to base his claims on, he is calling all of us liars. Why? because thats his job. What other reason could there possibly be? How could he possibly know that we are not experiencing this if he is not here experiencing something different? If uncinus were to tell me that something strange occurred over his home yesterday who am I to say that it didn’t? Of course I could call him a liar and say that he is making it up or hallucinating but that would be rediculous since I wasn’t there to witness it. Just spewing a bunch of unsubstantiated propaganda for the sheeple that cant deal with the reallity of it all. Pretending it is just ‘contrails’ is certainly a much more comfortable theory to live with. I only wish it were true. The fact that uncinus automatically counters any discussion on chemtrails with nothing to base his claim on says alot about his mission here.

  • rudedog, I’m not denying your observations, I’m questioning your interpretation of them.

    I have actually given a LOT of evidence against “chemtrails”, simply by demonstrating that they look EXACTLY like persistent contrails. I quoted old weather books that describe the same thing, old newspaper clippings, eyewitness testimony, and shown old photos. That’s a lot of evidence.

    What evidence have you shown? Do you have one dated video of contrails expanding, together with an accurate reading of the altitude of those contrails, and the temperature and humidity at that precise time at the altitude? Or even close?

    No, I’m afraid all you have is you own personal observations, with no actual figures. While I cannot deny what you saw, I can actually explain it in terms of contrails. As could you.

    One thing you said is a little odd:

    Amazing how water vapors can congeal until they literally drip out of the sky

    Firstly remember that contrails are actually ice crystals. Secondly, they are clouds. Do clouds never “drip out of the sky”. Do they never change shape? Do they never grow and spread? Of course they do. Clouds do this, and since contrails ARE clouds, then so do contrails.

    If this odd behavior is going on every day, then why is it so had to get a meteorologist to look at it as say it is odd? You’ve got a couple of options:

    1) All 50,000 meterologists (and 1,000,000 scientists) are in the pay of the Government and cannot talk on paid on dead.
    2) It’s not odd.

    Which one do you pick, and why?

  • once again, your only response is to discredit one’s perception of something they have seen and experienced while you were somewhere else. It is not something that I saw as you put it. It is something that I experience on a daily basis. Of course contrails are clouds. Of course clouds drip out of the sky. However, they are very different from chemtrail clouds. The difference is obvious to those that observe them daily. You are someone who will never be able to distinguish the difference, or at least admit it. of course you are right, and all of the tens of thousands of people that have witnessed the spraying and have been personally affected by it are all either liars or loonatics or conspiracy theorists. Strange how you more about what people see with their own eyes even though you are not any where near them at the time. You can use your science platform to explain away anything if you choose to if you manipulate it to fit your agenda. Remember, you can fool some of the people some of the time………. No that’s not it. You can fool me once, but fool me twice………… No, not that either. Oh nevermind. By the way, I have never mentioned anything in regards to a government conspiracy. you planted that seed. And thanks for giving me two choices to pick from. I am so confused. I dont know which one to pick. It must be one of them because you say so.

  • So you are saying this is entirely your perception, and that there is no way of actually demonstrating that these contrails are different?

    Do they look the same in photos and videos as regular contrails?

    What exactly IS the difference? Why can’t you demonstrate this difference?

  • There is plenty of evidence of the “sprayer plane nozzels”. Your efforts to debunk substantial proof the chemtrails are abundant, will fail very shortly.

  • Where is this evidence?

    You might want to check that your evidence does not appear on this page, where I’ve been explaining all the “chemtrail planes” photos:

    http://contrailscience.com/contrail-or-chemtrail/

    Let me know if I’ve missed one!

  • Uncinus, I’m baffled that you can wade through so much ridiculous garbage and still maintain a cordial, welcoming tone with the deluded nutjobs who post here. I’m actually in awe of your psychic fortitude. Thanks a ton for an entertaining, if frightening, window into what happens when you give 21st Century information technology to 17th Century minds.

    More power,
    S.

  • I am amazed at the level of ignorance in this country. To automatically dismiss something as being a ‘conspiracy theory’ and labeling someone as a whack job is pure ignorance. First of all, if you were to just go outside and look up and observe what is taking place on a heavy spray day you would see how obvious it is. When contrails do form, it would be a rare occasion to see one that lingers for hours or even all day, if that is even possible. Suddenly we have a new term labeled ‘lingering contrails’. This is to try to convince you that this is something that is ‘normal’. Well, anyone that has spent any time studying the sky lately knows that there is nothing ‘normal’ about what is taking place. On one particular day I observed an average of one jet passing overhead every ten minutes. Every one of them spewing their poison. I starts with a few lines in the sky, which look like normal contrails to most people. The difference is, instead of eventually dissipating, they continue to grow and spread out until they merge. By the end of the day the entire sky is blanketed with a thick layer that was supposedly formed from contrails. Without a clue what is happening right in front of their own faces, all of the mindless drones go about their daily routine thinking that it is just normal cloud cover, if they even think about it at all. I live in a higher elevation on the west side of town and around dusk I have a perfect view as I watch the toxic cloud slowly settle down on to the city. Sometimes it is so thick that it literally looks like it is dripping out of the sky. It even happens on days when the conditions are not favorable for contrail formations.
    When an independent thinker with a conscience speaks up out of concern to tell people what he has observed he is labeled as a ‘conspiracy theorist’ by a bunch of ignorant drones that have not spent 5 minutes looking into his claim. They are unable to think independently, therefore they jump on the ‘conspiracy theory’ bandwagon without a second thought because they would not want to be perceived as not being ‘normal’. God forbid! It is too much for their little minds to process that something like this could actually be taking place. And anyone that dares to admit that they have actually witnessed it is automatically a liar or a whack job with no basis. A whack job is someone who chooses to ignore the facts because it is easier for his mind to accept it as if it were not really happening. Where is your proof that chemtrails do NOT exist? The next time one of you ignorant drones want to automatically label someone as a whack job for describing what they have witnessed, maybe you should actually have something to back it up. If you cant back it up then maybe you should present something that shows that you are NOT a whack job. You will never know the truth until you have a mind of your own and stop letting others think for you and start basing your decisions on facts and not peer pressure. After all, when someone comes forward with disturbing information that could have an impact on your health and your children’s health and well being, it is intended to be for your benefit, not to bring harm to you. To react by calling them a nut job without even bothering to provide evidence of it makes one wonder who the real nut job is.
    Stephen Couchman is a perfect example. As long as uncinus continues to do his thinking for him, he can continue to exist in his comfortable conspiracy free little world. You crack me up. You are baffled at how uncinus can maintain his composure. Wake up Stephen! You are being mind f****d by a professional phsycologist. How does it feel?

  • Actually the term “lingering contrails” dates back to at least 1981

    http://books.google.com/books?q=“lingering contrails”

    The more common term “persistent contrails” dates back to at least the 1950.

    http://books.google.com/books?lr=&q=%22persistent+contrails%22+date:1900-1980

    Lingering and persistent contrails have been around as long as planes have been able to fly high enough. There’s enough evidence of this just in the results of the above google book searches.

    You say:

    On one particular day I observed an average of one jet passing overhead every ten minutes. Every one of them spewing their poison. I starts with a few lines in the sky, which look like normal contrails to most people. The difference is, instead of eventually dissipating, they continue to grow and spread out until they merge.

    This newspaper article from 1970 says:
    http://contrailscience.com/images/1970+ridder+news.jpg

    Aircraft contrails begin to streak the normally bright Arizona sky at dawn. Through the day, as air traffic peaks, these contrails gradually merge into and almost solid interlaced sheet of cirrus cloud – an artificial cirrus cloud that is frequently as much as 500 meters deep.

    And this one from 1944:
    http://contrailscience.com/images/L/1959+mansfield-2.jpg

    Within the past few years, the weather bureau has begun to report the trails as actual cloud layers when there are sufficient trails to cover a portion of the sky.

    So, rudedog, what exactly has changed?

  • Rudedog-

    I, too, am amazed at the level of ignorance in this country….

    Are you truly blind to the reality that PERSISTENT contrails that last for hours and days and spread out into thin, hazy sheets of cirrus clouds have been observed and researched for over 50 years??

    Why do you insist that this is new??

    You hurl “Every one of them spewing their poison. I starts with a few lines in the sky, which look like normal contrails to most people. The difference is, instead of eventually dissipating, they continue to grow and spread out until they merge”

    …this is EXACTLY what supersaturated persistent contrails do….please- educate yourself…its not hard- Don’t believe this site if you are so biased against Uncinus- DO THE RESEARCH YOURSELF- there are literally 100s of peer-reviewed, papers by atmospheric scientists from around the world dating back 50+ years detailing persisting, spreading contrails…exactly as you described…

    …and yet you remain ignorant of that reality.

    You are so adamant of “chemtrails” existence and yet your only “proof” is the visible behavior of the trails themselves….behavior which has been proven to the EXACT behavior of some contrails….and you wonder why we question it.

    Do yourself a favor- learn what the known behaviors of contrails are before you claim that you know what you see in the sky is not one.

    research these terms:

    supersaturated persistent contrail

    contrail cirrus

    Learn the science behind the formation of contrails and then you MIGHT have some credibility when you claim what you see in the sky is not one.

    here is a decent place to start:

    http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc/aviation/038.htm

    Speculation based on ignorance is not a good recipe for success.

  • AAhh nice goverment sponsord disinfo page!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Can i pleeeeese by your soul? or else! I noticed somone writing about education:

    Look up H.R.2977, H.R 3616, Owning the weather by 2025, Treaty on open skies.

    Now you can go back to sleep!

  • I wish the government was paying me :) But no, I do this for fun, not profit.

    2977 (and the later version 3616) I’ve dealt with here:
    http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/

    “Owning the Weather by 2025″ is just a think-tank document on stuff like battlefield cloud seeding and fog dispersal, and some speculative stuff on “space weather”. It’s not government policy, just a bunch of ideas that some guys were throwing around.

    And it has no mention of ANYTHING that resembles “chemtrails” (or contrails). Where’s the link?

  • You people should start worrying about things like the boogeyman, easter bunny, bigfoot and the tooth fairy because they’re about as real as chemtrails. Do some freaking real research. I’m guessing none of you have college degrees because the only people I personally know that talked to me about this nonsense were just high school educated. I have done a couple of searches on youtube and it cracks me up to see videos that were posted 1-2 years ago and in the description were talking about “the attacks are beginning” or “chemtrails are getting more saturated, the government attack is about to begin!!!11.” Give me a break. Here we are, still alive! Wow! Who would have thought?!? How dumb do you have to be to believe that the government that depends on US to be healthy to work and PAY TAXES is just going to make us sick/eradicate us and let the rest of the world take us over. OR maybe they were going to let the aliens they’ve been keeping secret move into our houses. Face it, if you were educated you’d understand the concept described above but you people just want to believe in conspiracies. Science > bs.

  • To: Chemtrails are fake

    Thanks for enlightening me. I feel like such a fool now that a real scholar has posted a comment. Especially one that did some real freakin research. Which two videos did ya’ll watch on the you tube cuz I would like to be educated 2. Of course, I could never expect to be as smart as you cuz you knows real college type peoples. And thanks for that information about the impending government attack. I have been looking so hard for a conspiracy to believe in cuz I just want to believe in one so so much. Although, I wish you wouldn’t have told me about the secret aliens moving in to my house cuz now I’m gettin kinda scared. I had no idea! But that’s ok cuz you have really inspired me mister. I really am gonna try to get more educated like you so I can understand concepts and stuff. If you will be my new mentor I promise I’ll study real hard and make you very proud of me. I have to confess something that’s kinda embarrassing but I gotta be honest with ya. I thought the easter bunny was fake. I am a little confused about why I should be worrying about him. Is he a bad bunny? (I always knew the tooth fairy was a big meany). After all the things I learned from you I too am amazed that we are all still alive! Who would have thought?!? Thanks again Jethro.

    Uncinus,
    A very impressive following you have.

  • Uncinus,
    Perhaps you should read the 2025 military document again. There is alot of detailed information in there that you sure are quick to downplay. It may have been a speculative document in 1996 about developing technologies towards weather modification but 13 years later many of the goals that the Air Force mapped out in detail have been realized. You downplay it by saying its just a think tank on stuff like cloud seeding when you know it goes much deeper than that. Here you are quoting documents and refering people to numerous web links trying and make your case on the ‘contrail’ theory, yet you downplay this document drafted by the Air Force that goes into detail about the goals that they would like to achieve towards weather modification by the year 2025 as if it is insignificant. In case any of you still aren’t convinced of the capabilities that the Air Force has to manipulate and control the weather, then just research the bibliography at the end of the document. If you cant find enough evidence in any of those references then you just aren’t looking very hard. It’s all there. I could sit here for hours posting references about government involvement on the subject but I’ll let you do your own homework. To the ‘chemtrails are fake’ guy who is afraid of the boogeyman and the easter bunny, try pulling your head out of the you tube and do some actual research like someone with a college degree would, unless you are just another one of those ignorant illiterate hillbillies that likes spouting of about stuff that he knows nothing about. I find it interesting when people voice their opinion about something that they are genuinely concerned about, whether it is true or not, that there are people like you guys that become bent on making sure that no one believes them, dedicating countless hours and resources building a website dedicated debunking him and calling him names and trying to discredit him by associating him with things like bigfoot and aliens, trying to belittle him for what reason? What do you care? What is your motivation to attack someone that you know nothing about by painting a false image of him? Just because your little mind cant accept the possibility of something like this happenning just because you dont like it and because you did your research by watching a couple of you tube videos doesn’t make the person a nut job that must have conspiracies. How self centered you must be to believe that anyone who does not conform to your narrow minded mentallity must be a whacko. Maybe you shouldn’t research the issue because I dont think you can handle the truth.

    Here is a link to an article which discusses U.S. Senate Bill 517 and U.S. House Bill 2995 to allow the government to do testing on human subjects without their consent.
    http://www.informationliberation.com/index.php?id=5209

    Here is a link to a video of the news reporting on the chemtrail problem
    http://www.knbc.com/video/9265818/detail.html

    Here is a link to a former naval physicist discussing his involvement in weather modification projects that have proven successful. He also points out how pointless it is to even discuss the issue people like you because your mind is set and you refuse to even allow the possibility that things like this are taking place.
    http://www.informationliberation.com/index.php?id=2278

  • rudedog, but even if “the government” were doing EVERYTHING that is listed in the 2025 document, what evidence does it provide that the the persistent contrails that you call “chemtrails” are actually deliberate spraying? How do you know that the “chemtrails” are part of the weather modification program?

    There’s a lot of difference between saying that something is possible, and demonstrating that it is so.

    I’m not here to debate the scale of the weather modification operations that the government performs (it’s public knowledge that weather modification has been worked on for at least 100 years). I’m just pointing out that persistent contrails are not unusual.

    The article you link says nothing about “testing on human subjects”, it’s just about regulating weather modification experiments. The KNBC article is very old, and just repeats the normal claims, like “normal contrails don’t last very long”, which have been shown to be false.

    The Livingston article is just about cloud seeding, which looks nothing like contrails, and happens IN CLOUDS no in a clear blue sky.

    I’ve got a simple question for you rudedog, if you can’t answer it, then you’ve got nothing:

    How can you tell the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail?

  • contrails dont make people sick. chemtrails do.
    contrails dont leave sticky residue. chemtrails do.
    contrails dont fill the air with fibers. chemtrails do.
    contrails dont have a distinct chemical smell. chemtrails do.

    unlike you, I can also tell the difference visually. Especially when they are observed side by side.

    The last few days have been chemtrail free here in Redding. Coincidently, the amount of air traffic has been back to normal, seeing very few jets pass overhead like it used to be. None of them leaving lingering contrails. On heavy spray days there is an average of six to ten jets per hour passing overhead, all of them leaving thick spreading trails that do not dissipate. There are a few that do not leave any trails on those days, which I contribute to the normal air traffic.

  • When you say it has been proven false that normal contrails dont last very long you are partially correct. There are those rare occassions under the right conditions that could allow a contrail to linger for a while. It would be even more rare for approximately 100 of them to linger for the entire day and never dissipate, a phenomenom which happens on a daily basis around here under various weather conditions. The lingering contrails that you describe are not normal and do not occurr everytime a jet leaves a contrail. A normal contrail dissapears within minutes and doesnt continue to spread, filling the sky something that has no resemblence to water vapors. Why do you insist on misleading people into thinking that persistent lingering contrails are normal contrails when they are not? They are a rare occurrence at best. Your campain to misinform the public and trying to convince them that what they are seeing and experiencing is not really happening can only lead to one conclusion as to what your purpose is here. Anyone that takes the time to do some serious research on the subject can find plenty of reason to be concerned. The people that have done their homework arent looking for a conspiracy. They are looking for answers to things like abnormal spikes in illnesses and the alarming increasing rate of respiratory issues and the water and dirt sample test results showing unhealthy levels of barium, aluminum and scrotnium that could only have have been deposited via airborn delivery. Of course, you would like people to believe that all of these things are also ‘normal’ because that is what you do, isn’t it mr. uncinus.

  • rudedog says:

    There are those rare occassions under the right conditions that could allow a contrail to linger for a while. It would be even more rare for approximately 100 of them to linger for the entire day and never dissipate, a phenomenom which happens on a daily basis around here under various weather conditions. The lingering contrails that you describe are not normal and do not occurr everytime a jet leaves a contrail.

    However, back in 1970, Perter M. Kuhn, of the Boulder Atmospheric Physics and Chemistry Lab, wrote:

    The spreading of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent contrails exist from 25,000 to 40,000 ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet.

    So how are were to reconcile these two different statements? Who do we go with? Rudedog, or the scientist?

    What about the press, back in 1970, the Arcadia Tribune reported:

    Aircraft contrails begin to streak the normally bright Arizona sky at dawn. Through the day, as air traffic peaks, these contrails gradually merge into and almost solid interlaced sheet of cirrus cloud – an artificial cirrus cloud that is frequently as much as 500 meters deep.

    Were the newspapers mistaken? Were the scientists mistaken? Rudedog, when you say:

    A normal contrail dissapears within minutes and doesnt continue to spread, filling the sky something that has no resemblence to water vapors

    Then how do you explain the Encyclopædia Britannica saying:

    Contrail, streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.

  • unlike you, I can also tell the difference visually. Especially when they are observed side by side.

    And what is this difference?

  • Perhaps he can tell by the smell of them.
    That would be the definitive test, wouldn’t it?
    How they smell, eh? RudeDog?

  • RudeDog-

    You really need to educate yourself on atmospheric science…You continue to be blinded to the reality of science…instead relying on pure speculation which in turn is fed by your fears and bias….

    Why do you continue to ignore the 50+ years of contrail research that contradicts everything you say?

    Persistent contrails often linger for more than “awhile”- Some have been studied to last for days…and 12+ hours is not unusual…

    Persistent contrails are “normal” for a given atmospheric condition…and when the atmosphere is right- as in saturated with respect to ice- then you can expect to see multiple trails persist and interact as the 100s of planes that fly over your head daily leave trails…(not all planes flying through the same patch of atmosphere will leave a trail- thats an indication of just how many variables go into any single trail)

    You are just not doing any real research on contrail behavior- you are ignoring all the science of the atmosphere…and the related science of the interaction of the combusted material ejected from plane travel…

    Persistent contrails are not that uncommon- It has been studied that conditions for persistent contrails exist on average of 15% of the time…and higher for certain parts of the globe.

    Please….just read for yourself…:

    http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc/aviation/038.htm

    Uncinus, has presented many examples of people- scientists and non-scientists- 30+ years ago describing exactly what you describe as “chemtrails” – How do you reconcile that? You do not- you just ignore it…the internet is great like that.

    PS: if you think you can “smell” on contrail that is at least 5miles away from you (30,000 feet) …your logic and ability to reason has abandoned you.

    Perhaps you should look into the science of fall rates and dispersal theory…but I know you will not.

    Perhaps next time there is a persistent contrail over your head- you could collect some of the “fibers” and take a picture of them for us and then have them sent to a lab to be analyzed??

  • Here is a quote from a recent article in the Redding newspaper:

    “Area scientists have taken more than 40 samples in the north state, including on the sides of Mt. Shasta, and all of them showed abnormally high levels of heavy metals like aluminum, he said.

    The metals are new and in places where they shouldn’t be, he said. The dumping may also be contributing to disastrous weather patterns, Wigington said.

    “It’s tough not to connect to that with what happened in June with the 3,000-plus lightning strikes we had,” he said, adding that it’s important the public hear more about the alleged dumpings’ detrimental effects on the environment. “This is certainly a public health hazard.”

    Shasta County Supervisor Mark Cibula said he requested that the board discuss the matter after receiving requests from community members.

    Other board members also have expressed interest on the topic, he said.”

    Tests have been conducted all over the country. Of course, they are dismissed by debunkers as ‘normal’ or ‘natural’ occurrences. The increased levels correlate directly with the increase in your so called ‘persistent contrails’. If anyone chooses their information selectively and ignores the facts, it is you. Your quotes dont prove anything more than my personal observations do. When I refer to a quote it is not taken seriously by you. You claim your quotes are in the name of science. A very easily manipulated platform which you have conveniently taylored to meet your agenda. I could do the same but I am not here spread misinformation as you are.

  • Perhaps your own personal observations are more valid that the Encyclopædia Britannica, or the American Meteorological Society. But I doubt that most people would agree with you.

    Look at it this way: EVERY description of contrails in ALL of the books on science and meteorology say that contrails can last for hours and can spread out to cover the sky. In no book, or science paper, or newspaper article, does it say anything like what you have said.

    So we seem to have all written human knowledge, vs your personal observations.

    You would have a bit more credibility if you could provide ONE quote that says a “normal” contrail should dissipate quickly.

    As for Dane Wigington’s claims that “Area scientists have taken more than 40 samples in the north state, including on the sides of Mt. Shasta, and all of them showed abnormally high levels of heavy metals like aluminum,” Well, aluminum is the most abundant metallic element in the Earth’s crust. If you really want to be taken seriously, then tell me:

    1) What is a normal level of Aluminum in Northern California soil?
    2) What levels were found in the study?

    I’m sorry you think my quotes are selective, and that I dismiss yours. However, I quote from sources like the encyclopedia and scientific journals, where you quote from the Redding Record Searchlight..

    Why can’t you find anything in the science books or journals to back up your claims?

  • RD-

    you said “Your quotes dont prove anything more than my personal observations do”

    …actually, that is not true…all the evidence..er..”quotes” that Uncinus has provided shows that contrails that persist, spread out and merge together into a sheet of thin cirrus clouds…have been observed for over 30 years…

    whilst you claim it is a recent phenomenon.

    How do you explain that?

    When you say “The increased levels correlate directly with the increase in your so called ‘persistent contrails’” ….

    …not getting into the reality that correlation does not equal causation…could you at least provide more data on your claim?

    Also- have you actually done any research on the formation and persistence- or lack thereof- of contrails?

    Where do you get your information regarding what is a “normal” contrail?

  • Uncinus, you are a god among men.

    I try my best at approaching these sorts of people in the same way you do… with politeness, a lack of derision, calm debate, scientific evidence, and notable sources.

    However, you beat me at this on all counts. You show wit and tact in equal measures and I’m simply stunned at the depths you have mined old archives and databases in the search for credible evidence. Either you have been doing this far longer than I or you’re far superior at proper research than I or you’re simply a hell of a lot smarter than I, or perhaps all three. :)

    In any case, I salute you, and hope you continue to fight the good fight for the forces of sanity, reason, logic, and empiricism.

    Additionally, I’ve learned a lot here I never knew!

  • Thank you. It’s mostly having too much free time. :)

  • Uncinus, I applaud your efforts in supporting rational evidence based science. I am sad to see how much resistance your attempt has received, despite being quite well written. It seems as if people are determined to believe the mythologies propagated by the internet, as though they gain some comfort and validation in believing the government is out to get them. In the comment thread, I see you accused of being a government disinformation source, and all manner of ad hominems being thrown at you, yet you maintain decorum and reply with dignity. Great job! I am a working biochemist, and I have my own battles to fight with young earth creationists, so I know just how frustrating it is. Hopefully for every person that fights with you online, there are several more rational people that realize it is time to put the tin foil hats away.

  • Let me see if I have this correct?

    An obscure person sets up a site to tell everyone that the Chem trails they personally witness below the cloud level are all just perfectly ordinary Contrails.

    How unscientific is that?

    How could anyone possibley know this for a fact?

    Indeed, is this not BUSH Science?

    As in 911 BUSH Science?

    Please Check this out and explain how contrails can form so low in Summer?

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pL50vs899uw

  • Hi Maximus, that video seems to show normal contrail formation. They are probably at above 30,000 feet. It was just a day were the conditions (high humidity above 30,000 feet) were right for contrail to form. It was humid because of an advancing weather system.

    You know, a lot of planes fly over Britain, 7,500 per day.

    http://contrailscience.com/britain-from-above-air-traffic/

    That video was taken on Monday, 9th of June, 2008. Have a look at the satellite photos for that day:

    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=Europe_2_01.2008191.terra.1km
    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=Europe_2_01.2008191.aqua.1km\
    [EDIT: Links are to the wrong date, see comments below]

    These photos were taken around noon. The video was taken several hours earlier. You can see there is a VAST amount of moisture in the air. The contrails in the video are clearly forming around the edges of this huge cloud system. If you watch the video, you can see that by 8:00AM there are regular clouds forming and by 10:00AM there is a regular overcast.

    Now look at those satellite photos, and tell me it’s at all surprising that the day turned overcast.

  • Uncinus, that explanation is null and void – the satellite images are a month out. Seems like the “god among men” can make mistakes. Nice try though.

  • CleansedEyes, thanks for pointing that out, I was linking to the wrong images! Here are the correct images for June 9th 2008:

    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=Europe_2_01.2008161.aqua.1km
    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=Europe_2_01.2008161.terra.1km

    Here you can see the weather system a lot clearer. There’s a big band of moisture coming in from the north, and contrails are forming ahead of it. This photo was taken sometime around noon, a few hours after the video. I suspect that the high altitude band of moist air is now over the Channel, a few hundred miles away (winds at 30,000 feet are often 100 Mph).

    Looking at this photo, I’d imagine if the video continued a while, then the day would have partially cleared up in Cheshire, before the main bank of cloud rolled in.

  • No problem. Uncinus, I haven’t followed the new links yet as my connection is slow, but understand they are just images released for public viewing by NASA – to suggest they are an unadulterated representation of reality would be pretty naive. To present images to attempt to contradict people’s personal experiences is best left to the hypnotist and his subjects.

    I am left bemused by your role here. To explain: I have received responses from authorities who say contrails are a cause for concern because of their contribution to climate change and their unknown effects on human health, so your saying there is nothing to be concerned about is both inaccurate and irresponsible to those whose health is already suffering – including mine.

    What is your reason for setting up this website and dismissing everybody’s concern when the authorities themselves admit the detrimental effect on climate and possibly people’s health due to persistent contrails? What is it to you that people are trying to seek help? Why do you go out of your way to stand in theirs?

  • There is nothing adulterated about the MODIS images. They are transmitted from the Aqua and Terra satellites daily, in near real time, and continuously in a stream of photos that covers the entire globe. They are heavily used by the academic community, and any discrepancy would quickly be noticed. You can quite easily verify their accuracy by taking sky photos at the same time the satellites are overhead, and then comparing them. Like I did here:

    http://contrailscience.com/contrails-above-and-below/

    Contrails ARE a concern because of their potential contribution to climate change. That’s nothing new – they were talking about that in the 1950s. I have never denied this. I’ve always linked to to the IPCC site that has an extensive discussion of these concerns:

    http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc/aviation/038.htm

    I am not away of any “authority” that says “contrails are a cause for concern because of their unknown effects on human health”. I would be grateful if you could point out who says this, and what they think might be causing these health problems. Contrails are basically water. Jet exhaust is very similar to car exhaust (and there is a lot more car exhaust, a lot closer to your lungs).

    I’m simply interested in contrails and the weather. I’m an amateur pilot, so I find the atmosphere fascinating. I’m also interested in fringe theories and pseudoscience. The chemtrail theory says that some contrails are being deliberately created for some unknown reason. However there’s no evidence of this, and there’s lots of evidence to the contrary (basically that contrails have been acting like this since the 1920s). This site is simply a place where I write about these topics.

    Some people think their poor health is due to “chemtrails”. I think they are mistaken, as “chemtrails” are simply persistent contrails – basically clouds. So perhaps by explaining this to them, they might find the actual cause of their health problems, and take appropriate action.

  • Uncinus: “I am not away [if only your awareness of conscience wasn't 'away' - rib rib] of any “authority” that says “contrails are a cause for concern because of their unknown effects on human health”. I would be grateful if you could point out who says this…”

    I haven’t got time to go through all the responses just now but one example is from the European Commission, Unit F3 “Environment & Air Safety”, who wrote:

    “Most of the Commission’s work on this subject relates to Europe’s contribution to the consideration of, and agreement upon, technical measures recommended by the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) to limit particular emissions from civil aircraft that are produced in the normal course of fuel combustion and that are KNOWN TO HAVE ADVERSE HEALTH or environmental implications.” [Capitals are mine.]

    It is made much more explicit in many other lettersl, which I’ll find when I get the chance.

    Also, the Stroke Association in England acknowledges the existence of CHEMtrails as, “yet another source of PARTICULATE POLLUTION, which… HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A RISK FACTOR FOR CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE.”

  • Well, yes, but those quotes are about jet engine exhaust, not contrails.

    A contrail is the ice cloud formed from water in the exhaust and water in the air. They only show up when conditions are right.

    Jet engine exhaust is a form of pollution, just like car exhaust, or the emissions from industry and power generation.

    I’m not sure where you got that info about the Stroke Accociation, but I’m pretty sure they never mentioned “chemtrails”. Have a look at this:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3177530.stm

    Air pollution ‘increases stroke risk’

    High pollution levels may make people more susceptible to stroke, research suggests.

    Scientists at Kaoshiung Medical University, Taiwan, found higher hospital admission rates in the city when pollution was high.

    Two common pollutants – particulates and nitrogen dioxide – seemed to be particularly important.

    Writing in the journal Stroke, the researchers said the problem was worse when temperatures topped 20C.

    So yes, jets produce particulate pollution. But they product it REGARDLESS of if they product a contrail. The contrail is just an indicator of how much moisture is in the air, and how cold it is (at 30,000 feet). Contrails themselves are just extra clouds.

  • One effect I’ve noticed of the persistent contrails is that they have the ability of suppressing natural rainfall.

    For example, they have the habit of ‘mushing’ up the sky and natural clouds into a haze, yet there is very little, if any, rainfall… until… (and here’s another point about how I think ‘persistent contrails’ themselves could pose a problem)… the water is released all at once (like the 90 days rain in 5 hours that caused the Summer floods of 2007 here in the UK).

    I know of at least a few other researchers who shared my prediction of the Summer floods because of the effect I have just described – so why were we able to predict a flood which the head of the Royal Meteorological Society described as, “Utterly extraordinary” if what we are saying has no basis in reality?

    Prime Minister Gordon Brown likened the floods to the killer floods of the 1950s – which the BBC has revealed were caused by rain-making experiments – by planes spraying substances into the atmosphere.

  • Do the contrails cause the weather, or does the weather cause the contrails?

    Think about it. You know that contrails only form in certain weather conditions. Persistent weather conditions only form in less common weather conditions. So if there was some unusual weather conditions, then perhaps it’s the unusual weather that is making the contrails.

    Why would you sometimes see contrails before rain? It’s not because the contrails make rain. It’s because before rain, you get humid air – and if the humid air extends high enough, and it’s cold enough at the right altitude, you get contrails.

    I really urge you to look at the satellite photos. All of them. For a whole year. Then you’ll see the scale of things, and understand where the clouds are coming from.

  • Since the ‘persistent’ contrails occur, and have the same effect, no matter what the weather conditions, 365 days a year, it is OBVIOUS the ‘contrails’ cause the change in the weather.

    Furthermore, because these persistent trails (only observed by me and others to come from unmarked, windowless jets – the commercial jets’ trails ALWAYS dissipate) appear in every condition, including in hot, non-humid weather below 10,00 feet, in grid patterns, Xs, planes flying parallel a wingspan away from the other, weaving in and out of each other’s trails, etc., and because the material emitted can be seen falling down to the ground, and because people start coughing, having nosebleeds, sinus problems, itchy eyes, runny nose, etc., it is very very likely that what is in the ‘persistent trails’ in question is NOT predominantly water vapour.

    The symptoms that people are expressing exactly match those experienced in biological and chemical warfare.

    Don’t you agree that coughing and sneezing, with irritation to the eyes, chest and throat (and skin for some people) point toward an airborne contaminant? Aren’t you willing to consider and help investigate such a possibility, JUST IN CASE millions of people’s are in danger (going by their symptoms)?

  • If contrail occur and have the same effect 365 days of the year, then why is the weather not the same 365 days of the year? Clearly contrails do NOT appear every day.

    Persistent contrails do NOT appear in hot non-humid weather below 10,000 feet. You are mistaken. You are seeing contrails that are at normal cruising altitudes of above 30,000 feet.

    Planes do not fly parallel a wingspan from each other, you are seeing one plane that that is 1000 feet ABOVE another.

    The material can NOT be seen falling to the ground, as contrails are ice clouds, 30,000 feet in the air.

    If you have some evidence to the contrary, then I invite you to show it.

  • Don’t you agree that coughing and sneezing, with irritation to the eyes, chest and throat (and skin for some people) point toward an airborne contaminant? Aren’t you willing to consider and help investigate such a possibility, JUST IN CASE millions of people’s are in danger (going by their symptoms)?

    Yes, they point to seasonal allergies.

  • The persistent contrails DO occur every day where I live, daily for the last two years – from unmarked jets only.

    I agree that contrails do not appear in hot non-humid weather below 10,000 feet, but I am not mistaken – trails are being seen in the hot summer below Congestus cumulus clouds… which is what makes people wonder about the composition of these persistent trails laid down by UNMARKED NON-CIVILIAN aircraft – hence the term ‘chemtrails’, since, as you say yourself, CONtrails cannot form in such conditions. I use the term ‘persistent trails’ when talking to people like you who dismiss the notion outright, as you have with my telling you what I, and many, many people are experience: “You are mistaken. You are seeing contrails that are at normal cruising altitudes of above 30,000 feet.” Congestus cumulus clouds aren’t above 30,000 feet, are they…? (rhetorical).

    You also say: “Planes do not fly parallel a wingspan from each other, you are seeing one plane that that is 1000 feet ABOVE another.”

    What I am seeing is some boisterous Top Gun-indoctrinated psychopath pilots getting their jollies as they spray the populace (probably thinking they’re doing the ‘right thing’, from the information they’re given).

    The material CAN be seen falling to the ground, and in some cases looks like very fine web-like fibres, that dissolves when disturbed. Reminds me of the polymer testing in the 1950s.

    Finally, yes, let’s call them “seasonal allergies” – all-year-round-every-season-there-is-allergies that make your nose bleed. None of my close ones suffered from any ailments until the miltary planes started dispersing chemicals into our breathable atmosphere.

  • CleansedEyes,
    I have gone over this with uncinus many times. He insists on telling me that I am not really having the same experiences you have described also. At least he is admitting in his recent postings that it takes certain weather conditions in order for a persistent contrail to form. He admits that it is unlikely for a contrail to form on a hot, dry day at low altitudes, yet when I tell him that this is exactly what is happening here in Redding, Ca. on a regular basis he tells me it is not really happening, even though I am the person wittnessing it and he is no where near the area where it is occurring. He tries to justify his point by referring to websites and various sources of information that have been taylored to assist in his campain deception. I have asked the question over and over, “if contrails are formed as a result of particular atmospheric conditions that favor the formation of contrails, and persistent contrails are only possible under even more specific conditions, then why are we being plagued with EXTREMELY persistent trails left by jets, under any weather condition”? I have also mentioned the spikes in illnessess and have personally had the nosebleads, migraine headaches etc… that directly correlate to the days when we have been given extra special attention to be blessed with this precious manmade cloud that settles down onto the city without ever dissipating like contrails do. He will often attempt to misdirect you or manipulate some data to attempt to form some logical explaination why he is right and you are wrong. A perfect example is the previous post which he refers to the illnesses as ‘seasonal allergies’. I personally have never had allergies, just reactions from breathing the fallout of these manmade clouds that are formed from trails left by jets, that have got the attention of concerned people from around the globe because they too have noticed a significant change from the contrails of the past. In addition, it seems to me that ‘seasonal allergies’ would coincide with an ‘allergy season’ and not anytime of the year. Because he calls it ‘Contrail Science’ it must be true because his scientific explaination is the only possible explaination to the experiences that all of the concerned people are describing. As a result, anyone that tries to expose it is either a conspiracy theorist, a nut job, or just simply uneducated about contrails. According to uncinus, all of the people from around the world, that are describing the same thing and insisting that it is not normal contrail behaviour as they have known their entire lives are not actually seeing what they say they are seeing. You are not seeing what you think you are seeing, you are seeing what uncinus says you are seeing. Quote:

    “Persistent contrails do NOT appear in hot non-humid weather below 10,000 feet. You are mistaken. You are seeing contrails that are at normal cruising altitudes of above 30,000 feet.”

    Somehow he knows this for a fact. Where is his proof that I am mistaken? How could he possibly know that I am seeing normal contrails at altitudes above 30,000 feet? His proof is in the ‘contrail science’. Baloney! His scientific explainations have nothing to do with what people from around the world are wittnessing. All he can do is call you a liar if you say you have seen it. I try to refrain from using the word chemtrail anymore because of the stigma that people like uncinus have attached to it. However, since they are NOT contrails, I call them trails that jets leave behind them. Just because he has an explaination for persistent contrails, it is supposed to mean that you are not seeing what you say you are seeing. Not much of a case if you ask me.
    He wants evidence. Well good for him, I hope he gets some. Meanwhile, a growing population of concerned people have all the evidence they need. I doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see when a diliberately coordinated effort is being made to saturate the sky with a thick manmade cloud formed by trails that jets have left behind them. Unicus will explain this as normal contrail behaviour that has been occurring for all of our lives and nothing out of the ordinary is taking place. I too have inquired about his obsession that he has with making sure that no one believes the testimony of any of these concerned people. Very strange. He never has given an answer to that. What is to gain from making all of this up? Well, you get to listen to a bunch of ingorant idiots tell you what nut job you are and that aliens are gonna come and get too so you better put on your tin foil hats. As rude as they are, I still cant help but feel sorry for their clueless little hearts. The bottom line is, no matter what you say about it, uncinus is going to automatically dispute it’s legitimacy. He has made it very clear that it is his purpose here.
    Uncinus is right, you are wrong, end of story. Now shutup and take your poison like good little insect and pretend nothing is happening. Right uncinus?

  • Okay, rudedog, tell me this:

    How do you calculate the altitude of the contrails?

    Because this all seems to come down to a simple mistake, if what you think is at 10,000 feet is actually at 30,000 feet, then there’s nothing unusual going on.

    So how do you know it’s 10,000 feet?

    If you think the contrail is in front of cumulus clouds, then I’d caution you that with clouds being much the same color – and often partially transparent – it’s hard to see what is in front of what. But if that’s your method, then surely you have a photograph that shows this?

    If not, then perhaps you’d like to take the time to calculate the height by calibrating a camera at full zoom. Here’s a page that explains how to do it:

    http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/digital.html

    Be warned though, it requires you to correctly identify the aircraft type, which they failed to do there, explained here:

    http://contrailscience.com/measuring-the-height-of-contrails/

    If you can demonstrate WHY you think it’s at 10,000 feet, then we can have some constructive discussion.

  • And CleansedEyes, the same obviously applies to what you are saying. Do you have a photo or video that definitely shows low altitude contrails?

  • rudedog,

    Thank you for your very well-expressed comments. As you say, Uncinus’s argument is just outright denial of your own experience without any authority to do so as he wasn’t there experiencing it with you!

    That argument is coupled with ridicule hurled at anyone who says otherwise; ridicule which has been moderated and accepted as valid arguments:

    European Aviator scribed: “Wake up, dumbasses!!! The entire world is laughing at your claims about “your own government spreading chemicals into the atmosphere, controlling the weather””

    First of all, who said it was the GOVERNMENT? And WHO is laughing exactly? People are either concerned, or else annoyed at being told about it, and the elite have had to employ counter-intelligence agents to discredit the facts – hardly laughing – more like taking things very seriously.

    Feralnerd said: “they gain some comfort and validation in believing the government is out to get them.”

    Again, I haven’t even mentioned the government, but WHO on earth would gain comfort from the notion that their government is out to harm them and their loved ones?! What the Hell are you talking about?!

    Stephen Couchman labelled concerned people, “deluded nutjobs.” More ridicule.

    Chemtrails are fake, offered: “You people should start worrying about things like the boogeyman, easter bunny, bigfoot and the tooth fairy because they’re about as real as chemtrails [mixing people's real worries with fantasy]… I’m guessing none of you have college degrees because the only people I personally know that talked to me about this nonsense were just high school educated…Face it, if you were educated you’d understand… but you people just want to believe in conspiracies. Science > bs.”

    Ridicule and opposition are the first two stages of denying Truth, and we can see it playing out right here.

    Chemtrails are fake, why do you assume that everyone affected by the spraying (or ‘persistent contrails’ for argument’s sake) is ill-educated and not knowledgable about science? The connections you are making make no scientific sense, do they? It is BECAUSE of science that we can identify the trails under low cloud in hot non-humid weather to be something other than condensation. Y’see? It’s really not that difficult.

    Uncinus, you asked rudedog (who has remained very polite despite the ridicule hurled their way, ridicule which you allow to stay as part of the debate(!)): “Do you have one dated video of contrails expanding, together with an accurate reading of the altitude of those contrails, and the temperature and humidity at that precise time at the altitude? Or even close? No, I’m afraid all you have is you own personal observations, with no actual figures.”

    All attempts to get information from authorities, including plane times and flightpaths over a given area, are repeatedly thwarted. Can you let me know how to obtain that data in the UK, and the US for other readers? Nevertheless, as I have said, it doesn’t matter what figures or other data there is – you see, conscious people have AWARENESS. This heavy spraying only started full-on here 2 years ago and so it is VERY noticeable to those with a memory and reasoning skills.

    You also ask: ““If this odd behavior is going on every day, then why is it so hard to get a meteorologist to look at it as say it is odd? You’ve got a couple of options:
    1) All 50,000 meterologists (and 1,000,000 scientists) are in the pay of the Government and cannot talk on paid on dead.
    2) It’s not odd.
    Which one do you pick, and why?”

    The Meteorological Office, by their own admission, are run by the military. Moreover, there are many scientists, and professionals in the environmental sector, that are deeply concerned with what is happening. Scientists rely on funds and grants to be able to do their work. If they talk about the spraying the funds are cut. Again, pretty simple.

    Papers obtained under the Freedom of Information Act also reveal that during the biological and chemical weapons attacks by the UK government on the public from 1940-1979, the Met Office, airforce, army and police force all were given orders of secrecy – which they kept; so it is already proven to be possible.

    Uncinus, you wrote: “If you think the contrail is in front of cumulus clouds, then I’d caution you that with clouds being much the same color – and often partially transparent – it’s hard to see what is in front of what.”

    Well, here we’re in luck, as the ‘persistent trails’ are either dazzlingly white or else fluorescent pink (or multicoloured!), whereas the clouds are not, so in fact are easily distinguished from natural phenomena.

    I do have video evidence that show low-altitude ‘contrails’ in the hot Summer, as do others. If you truly have researched this subject enough to have an opinion on it you would have seen them yourself. The problem is, no authority will even look at the footage or listen to what we have to say, each time sending a script about how contrails form (a proven word-for-word copy sent to everyone who enquires), dismissing every question they ask.

    If the spraying is not going on where you live then I am very pleased for you. Why, though is it such a stretch of the imagination that it might be happening elsewhere? How can you be so arrogant as to negate millions of people’s personal experiences? (Again, that’s rhetorical – I know very well what your agenda is here. In fact your stance only underlines the seriousness of the situation.)

    Finally, here’s a link to a recent report on ‘metereorological manipulation’, in which it is admitted that most of the clouds over a particular area in the US (can’t remember where) are deliberately man-made from spraying – not contrails:

    http://www.ktvu.com/video_legacy/17022143/index.html

  • They laughed at Einstein, they laughed at Darwin… but they also laughed at Bobo the Clown. Being ridiculed does not mean you are right. Ridicule and opposition can also be the first two stages of exposing falsehood. But really it’s science that we need here. Hard facts and figures.

    I’m sorry that some of the other commenters offend you. I prefer to try at least things polite, and just address the facts. The ridicule runs both ways, you might note, such as this comment from “warrior”

    I will not compliment you on your site as I consider it AND YOU a web of BULLSHIT! Keep spinning. Careful of the black widow of time and consequences for your outright deception. The truth will prevail. Unfortunately, it is just as ugly and inhumane as Uni-anus has proven to be.

    Letting a comment stand does not constitute an endorsement.

    I’m not negating your experience, I’m questioning your interpretation of what you saw.

    If you have video evidence, then why not show it to me? Why not post it on youtube?

  • My point about ridicule and opposition was that you deny people’s experiences even though you’re not there with them when they have the experiences (every day for some). As rudedog said, if you were to say something occurred in the sky over your house, who am I to say it didn’t, as I wasn’t in that location and so couldn’t possibly comment. But you do.

    There are lots of examples of contrails beneath low cloud. This isn’t the best example by all means, but is one I found just now in minutes. Note the rainbow effects in the trail at the end of the video too.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi6t7qLR5ls

    What is your comment on the news report I gave the link to, in which they admit clouds over a particular area in the US are mostly manufactured?

  • CleansedEyes, the news report was quoting people whose job it is to increase rainfall by cloud seeding. They did not say that clouds anywhere are “mostly manufactured”. They said:

    - They think their cloud seeding program is responsible for an increase in rainfall of 5-10% over some of the watersheds.
    - Most watershed have some cloud seeding, either by them, or someone else.

    Cloud seeding is controversial – but mostly because nobody is even sure if it actually works. Since they did not know what the rainfall was going to be, their claims are rather dubious. Some people think it actually has zero net effect.

    That video is very interesting, but it’s not actually showing an exhaust contrail made of ice crystals, it’s an aerodynamic contrail, which is made of water droplets (which also then freeze to spherical ice drops). The plane is flying through (or slightly below) patchy clouds and very moist regions of air, and is causing them to condense as water by the drop in pressure over the wing. That’s why you get the iridescence (rainbow effect), which you get with water drops. If they turned off the engine, they would still get the same “contrail”.

    This is an exhaust contrail:

    http://www.airliners.net/photo/Airbus-Industrie/Airbus-A380-841/1197030/M/

    This is an aerodynamic contrail, note you can see clouds behind it.

    http://www.airliners.net/photo/Thai-Sky-Airlines/Lockheed-L-1011-385-1-TriStar/0980583/M/

    Aerodynamic contrails can form at any altitude where the humidity is high enough.

    Thanks for bringing this up. There is not a lot information about aerodynamic contrails – and it seems people tend to confuse them with the more common exhaust contrails. I’ll have to write an article about it, but for a start, see this for the science behind it.

    http://contrailscience.com/files/Gierens_Aerodynamic_poster_060625.pdf

  • I’m amazed! I’m amazed that even in the face of irrefutable facts so many people cling to an irrational paranoia! I would not like to study the chemtrail phenomena any more, but I am FASCINATED by the Conspiracy Theorist! I have to wonder if the CT phenomenon is more a function of a failing education system, psychological disorders, the internet bringing otherwise dispersed fringe elements to a common meeting place, or some combination of the three.

    Uncinus, I applaud your attempts to bring the light of reason to such dark places as conspiracy theory circles. It is a truly noble attempt you are making.

    I fear it is in vain, however, to bring light to the average CT. The tool of logic is absolutely useless in the face of such illogical creatures. You can use sound reasoning and scientific proof all day long, but at the end of that day they will believe whatever it is they choose to believe, regardless of input.

    I do hope that more than one person ‘on the fence’ who would have otherwise been scammed into believing this chemtrail BS by irrational subcultures will be saved by your attempts to reason with them.

    Peace and reason,
    -John

  • I’ve skimmed over this post and I see rudedog speaking honestly and articulately, while those on the chemtrail-debunker side are almost always resorting to some sort of name-calling or character assassination. The fact that they have to do that makes their arguments seem moot.

    Yeah, if you want to use scientific method, then I’m game. Scientific method relies on comparative models, and when applied to this scenario something is definitely out of the ordinary. Almost everyone I meet seems tired, run-down, or gets the feeling that “something is wrong”. I’m no exception. In spite of a vegetarian diet and a relatively healthy lifestyle, I suffer from chronic pain in my head, chest, and stomach as well as high blood pressure, even though I do not smoke, drink, or eat red meat. Why have these symptoms suddenly materialized into our society on an epidemic level?

    Oh, and if we are being poisoned, it really doesn’t matter for those who are paid to debunk this operation, because they and their loved ones are undoubtedly receiving an antidote or treatment for whatever it is we’re being sprayed with.

    I’ve witnessed the phenomenon myself; thick, puffy trails being expelled from unmarked aircraft in the upper-atmosphere. Their exhaust trail doesn’t evaporate quickly like the typical commercial aircraft; instead, it hangs in the air and gives the appearance of dripping or falling downward. It couldn’t be any more obvious that whatever is being expelled from these aircraft is falling into the lower atmosphere.

    Also, what about the rainbow effect that halos the sun when these operations are at their heaviest? I have photographic evidence of this phenomenon that is completely unnatural in meteorological terms. I’m only 27 and I’ve never seen anything like that in my entire life; when I pointed it out to a man of about twice my age he was shocked and said that he hadn’t either.

    Uncinus, please look within your heart of hearts (if you have one) and stop supporting this operation. People are sick and tired (literally) from what is happening and it is a growing concern to many. To say that this isn’t happening while people are affected by it is inhuman and disgusting. I already know that you and your supporters (who knows, they could be you or others in your unit) will paint me as some kind of irrational lunatic, but the truth is I am extremely perceptive (in fact, I’m even a paid professional in this area). So please, don’t tell me that blue isn’t blue, because I know what is true.

  • By the way, I find it interesting that these comments require moderation… Afraid somebody might say something that you can’t refute or twist?

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