Volcano ash cloud clears the skies of contrails and “chemtrails”
The cloud of volcanic ash from Eyjafjallajökull has prompted the most significant air-traffic shutdown in European history. This will provide a unique opportunity to study the effects of a contrail-less sky. But we must be careful how quickly we draw conclusions from the immediate data.
Take the two images above, the first, dated April 10th 2010, before the volcano erupted, shows a large amount of contrails, and lots of cirrus clouds, many of which are probably contrail induced cirrus. That was taken before the volcano erupted. The second image, dated April 17th, shows no contrails at all. The simple conclusion here is that removing air traffic made for vastly clearer skies over the UK.
Cause and effect? Sure, there were no high altitude flights on the 17th, so no contrails. But contrails are not the only variable in the two photos. There’s a lot of cloud cover on the 17th that’s entirely unrelated to the volcano. The questions to ask are: what would April 10th look like without the high altitude flights, and what would April 17th look like with normal air traffic.
Now I was somewhat selective with the photos I chose above. April 10th had by far the most contrails, and April 17th was the clearest day during the shutdown. Let’s pick another two days with the same traffic/no-traffic variable:
Here we’ve still got a before and after comparison, April 8th had normal air traffic, and April 18th had no air traffic. But here the images are much more similar in terms of the cloud cover, and very few contrails are visible on the April 8th image.
The key point here is that you can’t take any one image, and hold it up as representative of what is going on every day. The normal day to day variances are far greater in effect than the variance caused by the absence of air traffic.
That said, of course the April 10th image would have looked very different had there been no air traffic. Contrails do often have a significant effect on cloud cover. But how different would the April 8th image have looked without air traffic? And what would the April 18th image have looked like with air traffic?
Hi,
Just wondering, should the Eyjafjallajökullbjörksdöttir volcano continue to erupt for an extended period of time, is there anything that can be done to reinstate air travel over Northern Europe sooner?
Is there for example any way that some type of filtering system could be fitted to jet engines to mitigate the effects of volcanic ash?
Are propellor planes less susceptible to the effects of volcanic ash than jets; if so maybe more of these could be pressed into service?
I know these aren’t contrail related questions, but I know that you’re a pilot so I thought you’d be a good person to ask!
No- filters would not work.
Props are only slightly less susceptible but only because they tend to operate at lower altitiudes. They still have the same ingestion problems.
The problem with ash, especially in this case, is that it is so extremely terrible for aircraft that ideally you should have ash free skies for a few days just to make sure there isn’t any around. You could take a gamble and fly, trying to visually avoid the ash but if you do manage to fly safely can you really call the all-clear? Are you willing to be the one who says “everything is fine”? What if the next day someone has a flame-out at twenty thousand feet and has to pull a Sully into the English Channel? Liability much?
Sorry- everyone is stuck for a while. Just wait until 2012 when the sun starts acting up. If it even only slightly messes with the GPS network the whole planet’s air travel is going to be really messed up.
Thanks for that; I did think they were probably naive questions!
I really do love air travel (I was lucky enough to be on one of the last Concorde flights from New York to London), but I have to say it’s been blissfully quiet the last few days living as I do directly below the flightpaths of both LHR and LCY.
Ironically though, I developed a sore throat the very morning after the planes stopped flying; I guess I’m having chemtrail withdrawal ;o)
What do you mean about the sun acting up in 2012, Captfitch? Thanks for posting this, Uncinus.
The solar cycle peak is actually forecast for May 2013, but people like to say 2012 because of the movie, and the Mayan calendar urban legend.
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/29may_noaaprediction/
can i ask you Uncinus what is your view on what will happen on 2012/2013…..?
captfitch:
engines.
Volcanic dust is a talcum-like material which melts to a glass at combustion temperatures, dense amounts of it lengthen the time before complete fuel combustion to a point where it has passed the exhaust turbine, to cause instability and flame-out. Lesser amounts erode the exhaust turbine blades as they glass-coat them and will render them off-balance. Basically the engine gets trashed.
The volcanic dust cloud also does something to the air itself in a static electrical manner. It appears to behave as if were a thunderstorm and at night an aircraft passing through it glows with “St. Elmo’s Fire”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVI0yLxFdHM
I think there wil be an increase in solar activity. Beyond that there’s not a lot that can be guaranteed. Contrails will be about the same. What do you think?
Here’s what I think…
Due to the solar flare activity which will cause major problems for the majority of technological society, several measures will be implemented by the military/security apparatus.
The DUMB (deep underground military base) sites around the U.S. will be filled to capacity with their full compliment of military and civilian occupants, to act as a ‘seed population’ to ride out whatever hell is occurring on the surface before they “start over” the “New World (Order)”.
http://www.indavideo.hu/video/Morgan_Freeman_az_elnok (clip from ‘Deep Impact’ used as predictive programming, where Morgan Freeman playing Obama tells Americans they are under Martial Law as the ‘chosen’ are put into the DUMBs.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M-YYIDeEvs (Part 1/6 of Gov. Jesse Ventura’s show – episode dealing with the massive increase in bunker building by military and civilian contractors for military purposes – with 2012 solar storm as impetus).
As martial law is imposed, FEMA will be used to manage the populations through ‘executive orders’ controlling every aspect of your life, even permitting them to put you to work in labor camps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZsZLJUIvDs (news clip about FEMA’s powers)
The elite guarantee themselves biological diversity in the food supply using subterranean hydroponic grow chambers in the DUMBS fed by the Arctic ‘Doomsday Vault’.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/11/tech/main6288108.shtml
There’s obviously more to the picture, but it would takes much more space to list all the documentation. If anybody is interested, visit my Gootube channel and message me.
Stay Sovereign!
SPUSA
Getting a little off topic here, but …. SP, would you care to wager $100 on any of that happening, say by the end of 2013? Because I’ll happily bet you $100 it won’t happen.
You know this solar cycle maximum is forecast to be the lowest for 70 years, right?
SPUSA, here’s what I think: http://www.religioustolerance.org/dc_jones.htm and raise you a hundred.
Wonder why, “wonderwhy”…
Are you guys saying I made up the things I listed as possibilities for 2012 & beyond (with the caveat that I see the advanced progression towards these scenarios as my bet they will happen)?
Or are you saying I am mis-interpreting how they all fit together in the final analysis?
Or just trying to get in a low jibe with the Jim Jones cult remark- an out-of-nowhere left field attempt to discredit by implied association?
Forecasts aren’t guarantees, like your buddy wants to keep clinging to as his point about the footage I shot, as he claims that both the item in my video and all the others I sighted that year were CHA rainbows. So no matter what they say about 70 years worth of data , they can’t promise anything.
And I bet I’m not going to even want your $100 Federal Reserve Note, which will probably be so decimated in the next econo-terror scheme that they can finally sink and replace it with their ‘Special Drawing Rights’ world reserve ‘currency’, or the North American Union currency the Amero (or a variant )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hiPrsc9g98
as the U.S. is blended with its continental partners with a complete loss of National Sovereignty. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T74VA3xU0EA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vda1KRF75M
Specifically which of the items I present do you claim is wrong?
Stay Sovereign!
SPUSA
Well, I’ll take 1 ounce of gold then, or a gun, whatever you think is worth wagering.
The point is – how much do you actually believe these possibilities? Would you actually bet something of value on them being correct? Or do you really only ascribe them a fringe possibility, basically the same as everyone else?
Put your money where you mouth is. What exactly do you think will happen by the end of 2013?
I’d like to get in on that bet!
It’s gonna happen like Armageddon I tell ya!!!!!!
Only fools have fallen for the disinfo of Deep Impact.
I don’t wanna close my eyes,
I don’t wanna fall asleep,
‘Cause I’d miss you, babe.
And I don’t wanna miss a thing.
I would say I ‘believe’ in these possibilities at least as much & as far as the governments and corporations themselves are going to make preparations for them – which is to say a great deal.
If I were a leading member of the world’s elite financial oligarchy, what would be my mindset? Well, it is an easy first step to say that I want to use my wealth & power to acquire more wealth & power.
More for me & mine, less for everyone else.
You do not get to be among the higher-hanging fruit of financial and political elite without an aggressive type A personality that seeks to dominate and subjugate those around you. If you aren’t up to the task, you are quickly replaced by somebody who is. There’s no point in having power you don’t use, is there?
Knowing all this, combined with the in-the-open plans and declarations for world government that they themselves make (documentary Invisible Empire http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO24XmP1c5E), I would decide I have to keep a very open mind about what THEIR potential and possibilities are.
Among other things, I personally enjoy strategic wargames (such as those in the Total War series) because they are a very illuminating microcosm of the factors and decisions necessary to unite empires, and be a conquering faction. The strategic and tactical thinking necessary to win these games is the same that is applied on a larger scale in the global scheme.
So my predictions come from ‘reading the signs’ i.e. being observant of current affairs and historical evidence.
And it’s going to come to a head. There will have to be another ‘crisis’ of some sort to further progress the New World Order agenda, as fear and coercion are the tools used to drive a population – the same sort of leverage which allows a small force to move a greater force in the physical world.
This means that whether or not there are natural record breaking solar storms, polar shifts, or not, the NWO will HAVE to seize the opportunity of global expectations for their next move (if something isn’t planned sooner).
Maybe even going so far as to incite, exacerbate, or wholly contrive further disaster scenarios as the leverage necessary for incremental implementation of the next phase towards the gradual progression towards a fully chipped population, cashless total surveillance society & global slave plantation.
Here’s an interesting Harvard lecture on the idea of ‘Who Owns Me?’, and why forced taxation is really the same as slave labor. http://forum-network.org/lecture/free-choose-who-owns-me
Do you own you, or does the state own you? Do the unelected banking elite own you? Find out.
I realize we are in the next galaxy from ‘Volcano clears skies of Contrails’, which I would actually love to see progress as a thread as this unique opportunity unfolds in the U.K., so make of my answer what you will.
What will be worth wagering? I’ll tell you what’s not worth wagering. My country’s freedom and national sovereignty in exchange for being part of an ‘economic community’ under the direction of corrupt bankster cartels.
What about you? Wager a gun? Your socialist president Obama is giving the U.N. its small arms ban, so maybe there won’t be any 2nd amendment left to own guns. Have to wait and see on that one.
I’d love to wager something at least, because truthfully I’d love to be wrong about ALL this stuff.
I WOULD LOVE TO BE WRONG.
But if wishes were pennies I’d be a trillionaire, and I can’t wish away the reality of the documented evidence, and the self-proclaimed agendas of the elites.
Peace out for now.
Stay Sovereign!
SPUSA
I just couldn’t resist driving home the point regarding the guns with this news clip reminder of what happened in New Orleans. All homeowners even adjacent to the devastated areas were forcibly disarmed by U.S. troops (and corporate Blackwater, now Xe).
This proves that FEMA will throw your 2nd amendment into the garbage just when you need and deserve it (the ability to defend yourself in times of crisis).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm5PC7z79-8 National Guard Confiscates Guns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4 Gun confiscation the untold story of Katrina
Remember, ALL slave and victim populations were first disarmed by the powers-that-be. Even WW2 would be written different if every Jew was not only allowed to carry a rifle, but perhaps were required to become proficient and responsible with it. Response-able. Able to respond.
Just like those of us who are aware of this information, are responsible for sharing and spreading it – just like was done time and time in the past when tyrannies gained a foothold over society, and educated able-bodied citizenry rose up to stop it.
Stay Sovereign!
SPUSA
SPUSA, what is it that makes you think that forseeing scenarios is an ability uniquely your own? I always thought that THAT ability (coupled with the use of accurate language) was HUMAN, and common to us all.
It’s a combination of THAT ability with education that should enable us to AVOID any dangers in the first place. We have been progressively upping the ante ever since we started to use fire. We warmed ourselves with it even though there was the danger of being burnt to death.
It is OBVIOUSLY important that humanity is becoming increasingly reliant upon technology, and, just as with fire, must BALANCE its general knowledge to keep up with it. Otherwise we might “burn”.
In this case, you haven’t done so. Your level of technical understanding is too low to see that persistent spreading contrails are simply made of ice. Your “awareness” leads you progressively astray thereafter.
It’s a pity, for all you do if you start from such a mistake is propagate a cascade of misinformation which causes damage to the very social awareness we all need to protect.
Stop doing harm.
SPUSA, you have an interesting perspective, but one that seems mostly based on fear, and not facts.
Well, let me rephrase that, it’s based on facts, but on a very particular interpretation of those facts, where your interpretation seeks not to determine the truth, but to reinforce your strongly held beliefs.
Of course you might say the same about me. But that’s why I try to sick to pure science. Just the facts. Contrails have been around for 90 years. They have always acted the same. There’s no evidence they have changed.
We can talk about the water in Shasta if you like, because that is more like science than the implications of the police beating up an old lady who flashed a gun (lawmen have been beating up the wrong guy for longer than contrails existed). Can you explain what links the water tests to contrails?
Bowie fan eh? :o)
An interesting follow-up on the volcano:
“Remember that ash cloud? It didn’t exist, says new evidence” -Daily Mail
http://blacklistednews.com/news-8412-0-0-0–.html
@Jazzroc
I don’t believe you can quote me anywhere as saying that the ability to use information to understand trends and recent events, and even have a fair inkling of what’s soon to come was “uniquely mine”.
And the cascade being created from my efforts are in the general best interests of my community, my society, and my species.
@ Uncinus
I believe that facts add up, just like numbers. And I can count the steps both forwards and backwards in this country’s progression into a co-opted subverted super-state long gone from ‘power to the people’, now dominated by a techocratic super-elite with a globalist unification agenda at any cost.
If we want to continue to argue about it in the face of overwhelming evidence, it will only be to our folly.
As for the ‘one old lady’, who had her 4th Amendment and 2nd Amendment Constitutional rights violated, I suppose we could do as you suggest and defer to her as meaningless & trivial.
The same goes I suppose for that one old lady on that bus in Montgomery Alabama in 1955.
Rosa Parks was after all just one more old woman.
It is equally trivial that one old bag should have or lose her rights, right?
And she didn’t “flash a gun”. She was a private citizen, on her own private property. You tell me what’s the point of being armed for self-defense, if you have to drop it like a hot potato and lick jack-boot as soon as anybody with a metal pin and a uniform shows up?
Think back to the Western movies, where private citizens on farmsteads and mine-claims would meet the sheriff or army rangers with their rifles in hand, and the lawmen would ask politely if they could water their horses or pass through.
Now we have not just federal, but corporate international storm-troopers who break down your door, disarm you with menace, and have complete disregard & disrespect for your entire presence, as if you existing is a problem that they get paid good money to deal with harshly.
The key difference is sovereignty. Sovereignty. Who owns you?
If they own you, they can muscle you anytime they want. You’re their product, their commodity- their profitable, expendable, reproduce-able, recycle-able meat-sack.
Stay Sovereign!
SPUSA
Hey, I said they were beating up the wrong guy.
So what’s up with Shasta? Where’s the science?
SPUSA:
I was being sarcastic. You haven’t the ability if your reasoning skills are so poor as to ignore science as unimportant to what you do and believe.
By your refusal to accept research findings as to the constituents of contrails, and your (apparent) pretense that these findings don’t exist, you are perpetrating a harmful myth in a little “big fish – small pond” operation of self-promotion inside your small world. Perhaps you wish to not feel as useless as you presently do.
If you were ever to get what you want, your surroundings would be fatal to you.
“Chicken Little” and “Peter and the Wolf” were stories just meant for you.
(Personally I couldn’t understand what the fuss was all about. Why would some idiot chicken think the sky was falling? How stupid can you get, pretending a big bad wolf is about to steal a lamb?)
Well, it still happens… …and it’s fascinating…
@Uncinus:
Sorry that I go off topic but I can’t find any other way to contact you (a contact form would be great).
I think what you do with this website is very helpful and informative. I hope you can help me with this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRUqogeAgHo
It shows a plane filmed close-up. All four engines leave a contrail which spreads out and dissipates quickly. Two of the engines also leave another trail each which is thinner, denser and persistent.
I can’t figure out the reason why it is that way. Why does the plane produce seemingly two kinds of trails? How come most of the contrail dissipates but a very thin, dense trail is left behind? :/
That’s more on topic that many of the comments 🙂
The explanation can be found in the 1972 book Clouds of the World, see 11.2.4. Sometimes the conditions are such that the trails only persist long enough for the ice crystals to get to a certain size in the low pressure of the wingtip vortices. This gives you the thin trails show, which then get distorted by normal wake turbulence.
http://picasaweb.google.com/Uncinus/CloudsOfTheWorld1972?feat=embedwebsite#5363662403468056450
Here’s a close-up of the image.
http://picasaweb.google.com/Uncinus/CloudsOfTheWorld1972?feat=embedwebsite#5363663233628969554
You see this quite often. Here’s some similar images I took:
https://contrailscience.com/contrail-of-the-day/
Can you provide an explanation for this contrail activity??Youtube, video “craziest chemtrail pilot ever!sick” I personally have faith that a program to move weather is real. I do not support theory about toxic components in them fake contrails,it’s all weather related and how the military can gain advantage in the future. These pilots(in the video) are allowing us to see that the air is not supporting contrails and fake contrails are …….REAL. Check out weatherwars@ youtube too !!
Marc:
Well, why don’t you rethink that?
The energy equivalent of a hurricane is 100 megatons, and I would like to point out to you that even a hurricane isn’t “weather”.
There is a huge difference between Man’s capabilities and the capabilities of “weather”.
We are possibly altering the weather by our demand for food and comfort, but that is the demand of seven billion people.
“Move weather” – No. “Seed clouds” – yes.
Marc, that video just shows a skywriter. It’s smoke, not a contrail (which is made from ice crystals). See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skywriting
Just Kidding!! The video was silly…
However, why do “gravity waves “form in the clouds above minutes after a new “modified ” contrail section??Do I have a lot of civil or military traffic in the air over “Waterton National park, Alberta” during the day?
The gravity waves are already there, you just can’t see them until some clouds (like contrails) form.
How many flights to and from Calgary and Edmonton to points south (like California) would go over Waterton? What about Vancouver to the East Coast?
So yes, you probably have a lot of civil traffic. As for military – just look for military air bases within 500 miles. They have to train somewhere.
The air force also aerial sprayed 3 million acres with an unknown pesticide.to help stop pests.go o weathermodification.com the weathermodification in c home page and look at the list of clients using weather mod in the u.s
Remember controlling the weather is a weapon bigger than a nuke.ask china (beging olympics weather mod)or russia
Weather modification is a weapon. Evergreen aviation has the worlds biggest aerial spray plane on theyre website(evergreen.com) under missions it states weather modification as one of its uses. Weather modification inc(weathermodification.com) operates 35 weather mod planes and can modify almost any plane to modify weather.they have numerous picture(i have in case they take them down) look at the worlwide (client list )over 20 states use services for weather mod you can also go on the north american interstate weather modification councuil(www.naiwmc.org) and read all about it.
Everygreen simply listed it as a potential use. They only made one of those planes, and it is not currently in service.
I’m really not sure what your point is. The cloud seeding form of weather modification has been in use for fifty years, it’s never been a secret, it’s always been out in the open. It also looks nothing like contrails.
What exactly is your concern? Why would Weather Modification Inc “take down” their photos, they are doing nothing unusual.
it is in service at mccllellan sirfield sacramento ca.if they say that is a potential mission ,then it has been used and tested or a co like this would not put it on the website.the tech is in place and being used.just look up.and if its harmless to modify weather then why the big secret spraying program.you are a cia disinformation spook who is full of lies.how do you know what weather modification aerial spraying looks like.you seem to know it all mr agent man but dont worry i and many others are spreading the word about the health effects and cost of the secret weather modification aerial spray program.we will gwt youre black budgets accounted for.the physical evidence is overwhelming and you know it spooky
What the best evidence you have of a “big secret spraying program”? I’m collecting the best evidence on this page, but I’ve not found any. What am I missing?
https://contrailscience.com/chemtrails-the-best-evidence/
to start with you need to be a real us citizen who is concearned,and not the gov paid propoganda spreader of dis information that you are.the case is slam dunk for weather modification programs being ran all over the u.s and world.BY THE WAY WHO MADE YOU AND YOURE RIDICULOUS CHEMTRAILS FROM UNPRESSURIZED PROP PLANES NONSENSEthe authority of the skies.wow you can fly a single engine plane.as i said weathermofification.com has the pics of planes with pressurized jet spray nozzles that would leave a fake aluminum barium cloud.the evergreen supertanker(EVergreen.com)under missions,weather modification is operational and stationed a couple miles from my house it is also used for weather modification as you know(since you are a gov agent spreading disinformation) WE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW WHY WE ARE BEING SPRAYED DURING WEATHER MODIFICATION AERIAL SPRAYING AS US CITIZENS WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE GOV,NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.KEEP UP THE LIES THE TRUTH WILL BE KNOWNso please mr gov liar keep lying and well keep telling more and more people the truth.weather modification has to many military applications to be ignored.one more thing i dont care if you believe anything.you are a know it all that knows nothing.you cannot dispute the physical evidence with outlandish explanations of very rare occurrences.ive kived next to an airbase (where my family was employed)for my whole life except when i lived on an aircraft carrier.PEOPLE THIS GUY IS HERE TO LIE TO YOU.THIS WEBSITE REEKS OF THE US GOV AND BLACK OPS DIS INFORMATION.THIS SITE IS A FEW FACTS MIXED WITH A LOT OF FANTASY AND ILLOGICAL THEORYS OF HIS OWN CREATION
“the evergreen supertanker(EVergreen.com)under missions,weather modification is operational and stationed a couple miles from my house it is also used for weather modification as you know(since you are a gov agent spreading disinformation)”
“PEOPLE THIS GUY IS HERE TO LIE TO YOU.THIS WEBSITE REEKS OF THE US GOV AND BLACK OPS DIS INFORMATION.THIS SITE IS A FEW FACTS MIXED WITH A LOT OF FANTASY AND ILLOGICAL THEORYS OF HIS OWN CREATION”
Paranoid ignorance, at it’s finest. Buddy, seek help.
By the way, living “next to an airbase” is the worst place to spot persistent contrails. The airplanes you see are rarely at altitude. But hey, what do I know…you are obviously MUCH better informed than I could ever hope to be.
Hi
I would like to ask Uncinus what qualifications you have?
Im asking really so I know I can rely on your evidence and how you know all this information.
I have been trying to find information and confirmation like this for a while as I know someone who keeps bombarding me because I do not believe his theory regarding “Chemtrials”
I have been looking for evidence by somebody who actually knows what there talking about, I am no scientist but I have common sense.
All the pictures you have posted with perfectly sensible explanation, I have seen by other people claiming “LOOK ITS CHEM TRAILS”
All these people who believe in the conspiracy become erratic and paranoid, and become personally insulting to me because I do not believe them.
Thank you 🙂
I don’t have any relevant qualifications, other than being a private pilot of single engined planes.
I don’t “know” this information, I look it up, and I provide references so you can verify it.
One should not argue by saying “this well qualified person claims ….”, one should argue with the facts. To do otherwise is an argument from authority
I don’t think it’s his quals as much as it’s his methods for research. I asked him to help me with something recently unrelated to chemtrails and he provided some fantastic info along with sources and citations.
Yeah your right your research was brill and totally what I was looking for, and arguing with the facts does not help me…..
I just get called a brainwashed sheep anyway for not having the same opinion as them. Lol
You research really well thanks 🙂
he is qulifid to lie for his employer.theus gov weathermodification program.how is it this person can tell us what anything thats ever been in the sky is.look up weathermodification in c.waeather modification is whats going on and weathermodification inc(weathermodification.com)is the smoling gun that list the many weather mod projects going on all over the u.s ive bee n looking at picture around sacramento from the 1970s-early 90e.this is when the mcclellan afb logistics was in full swing,between mcclellan and,mather (10 miles away or so)way more jets flew in and out for maintenence everday than now and yet i cant find a single picture of a waeather modification chemtrail or an chemtrail x in the sky or a grid pattern etc.i dont hear this gov agent denying who he works for.COMMON SENSE WILL TELL YOU HALF THE PEOPLIE ON THIS SITE LIKE HIM ARE INVOLVED IN THE WEATHER MOD PROGRAMS(THERE ARE MANY)OR FLY PLANES FOR ONE OF THE MANY GOV AGENCIES INVOLVED.YES THIS GUY WILL BE HELPFUL.his job is to convince you millions of scientists,citizensand military vets are seeing things.these are independent weather mod programs being ran by almost every country in the world(drought areas of africa mysteriously do not have chemtrails for weather mod.look CARNICOM.COM CLIFFORD CARNICOMS SITE HAS A LOT OF EVIDENCE . KEEP UP THE BAD WORK GOV AGENT COVERUP SITE
I don’t work for the government, or anyone else. I just do this as an interest, like some people watch TV. You know, to pass the time. But if you would like to assume I work for the Illuminati, then go ahead. Focus on the verifiable facts.
You will never see contrails from planes going to of from an airport ten miles away. The planes will not be at a high enough altitude. That’s a scientific fact.
From those old 1970s photos, can you find any photos of cirrus clouds? No? Did cirrus clouds not exist in the 1970s? Think about it.
Weather modification is not a secret, so how is it a smoking gun? Look at the wikipedia page on cloud seeding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding
Im pretty well informed.as i said i will be at capital valley air show 2010.i will give out free domr faith science(who in theyre right mind has faith in science.)Ses of the truth to anyone who wants one.oh yeh im not youre buddy eitheryou are wrong about next to an airbase for chemtrails(good point)then why di i have countless hours of planes leaving chemtrails over my house.i guess when the navy trained me for the lookout watch they didnt teach me what a jet looks like.
I believe you mr. Agent man i really do.you spend 40 hours a week lying to the public because you like to.many of us know it is our civic duty to make sure the truth comes out
Uncinus is the owner of this site and not a real contributir.lets get this debate started and out in the open.im sure its a good job for low level pilots that arent good enough for the airlines,or who arent smart enough to qualify for jets but i would like to see you sky poisionig chemtrail(contrails are not solid matter chemtrails are filed with mwtal particles that make them very shiny)all out of a job and tried for enviromental crimes. You dont mess with mother nature you idiotd no matter how much science you think you have.look at the gulf oil spill,thats going real well for us
If it’s your civic duty to make sure the truth comes out, then why don’t you present some actual evidence?
And please stop posting all in caps. It’s hard to read. If you continue to post all in caps I will delete your posts. Your choice.
HEY MR SCIENTIFIC FACT DO YOU WANT TO SEE THE MANY HOURS OF FILM FROM LOW FLYING JET PLANES LEAVING CHEMTRAILS.THEY SPRAY HERE ALMOST EVERY DAY.WE ARE ABOUT TO GET RAIN AGAIN EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE GOT 145%OF NORMAL ALREADY. AS YOU SAID YOURSELF PLANES NEAR AIRPORTS DONT LEAVE CHEMTRAILS.COME ON DOWN TO SACRAMENTO CA AND TELL ME THAT GENIUS,ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK UP.DID YOU SERVE OR ARE YOU JUST A PAPER PUSHING GOV AGENT THERE ARE MASSIVE CHEMTRAILS ALL AROUND THE MCCLELLAN AIRFIELD BUT I GUESS EVEN THOUGH YOU DONT LIVE HERE YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THOSE OF US THAT DO
I’d like to see how you determine they are “low flying”. How do you determine their altitude?
Final warning on all-caps posts. Any more will be deleted.
Planes near airports leave trails. Just not the planes going to and from nearby airports. The trails are left by planes going between other, more distant airports.
Lots of planes fly over Sacramento, hundreds every day. Some leave contrails if the weather is right at the altitude they are flying. Sometime those trails persist and spread.
Comment deleted for all-caps, as per warnings. Feel free to re-submit it in regular case.
If you continue to post in all caps, I will ban you.
It’s simply not helping communication. If you can’t be bothered to format your comments in a readably manner, then I’m not going to let you post.
It is entirely your choice. Simply type in regular case, (like this), and your posts will show up. Continue posting in caps, and you will lose access to the site.
dont let this guy bs you with 2012 stick to the most likely cause aerial weather modification.it is going on worlwide and being done to boost gdp not our health
ban whover you want then you will just prove that you cant handle anOPEN DEBATE ON THE FACTS.argue with the bonnefire coalition([email protected])or clifford carnicom(carnicom.com) just because some gov moron bans me just means i will direct my energy to the many other formats that can be used to spread the word.lets get it straight you are an enemy of the people of the united states.you and youre kittle pilot buddies on here are probably working for the weather mod program
the planes near mccellan airfield and mather airfield and beale afb leave massive chemtrails with x and grid patterns so please come on out to sacramento and show me.these planes are nowhere near 30thousand feet where contrails form.they also turn the spray off and on.yes planes near airports do leave chemtrais mr agent man
if you post fact that dispute this guy uncinus(this is his website)he erases youre post and leaves the ones he deems okTHIS SITE IS CENSORED
Yeah, I’m hiding the truth about all caps comments.
I’m not censoring anyone. I’m deleting your posts that are all in caps.
Of course planes near airports leave contrails. Those are planes flying over the airport to and from distant other airports.
Explain how you determine the altitude of a plane. Show a photo or video of one of these low-flying-contrail leaving planes, and explain how you determined A) the type of plane, and B) its approximate altitude.
Hey DC3, Be prepared to encounter thousands of “government agents” at that airshow! People who attend those things are usually VERY knowledgeable about aviation and jet engines (unlike you) and they will NO DOUBT disagree with you. Man, what I wouldn’t give to be a fly on the wall while you try to convince those actually educated in these subjects that the trails are part of a “geoengineering program”. Are you going to have the BALLS to accuse all these people, who will be laughing their asses off at you, of being “agents” to their faces?! Doubtful. There is a VERY good reason why people actually educated in these subjects understand that they are contrails, and those who are uneducated “believe” they are “chemtrails”. I’m glad you are consumed by this subject. You are wasting your life away simply because you are ignorant. Oh, by the way, calling a person who is uneducated about a subject “ignorant” is NOT an insult. It just means you were never properly educated in the subject. And people who “believe” in chemtrails couldn’t BE more ignorant if they wanted to be. I look forward to your angry reply. The truth hurts sometimes…try not to be so sensitive.
Faith, this is a guy who ISN’T sensitive.
There must have been times previous to this where someone has challenged him. He obviously hasn’t noticed, so don’t ascribe to him YOUR sensibility.
DC3, produce evidence and REAL ARGUMENT or stop entirely. We already know (thanks) what you think about us. You really don’t want to know what WE think about YOU.
Sensitive in the sense that he gets angry at those who disagree with him (notice the insane use of caps) and the only thing he he can think to do is lash out and accuse them of being “agents”. Like that is the ONLY logical explanation for others TO disagree. Facts and logic just don’t seem to matter any more (to DC3 and his friends anyway). Such a shame.
The real truth can hurt them. The more people that are aware of the toys they’re playing with, the more they’ll demand them to stop. They’ll tell you about the global warming scam, how much we need global governance and ‘all the trash’ they want you to believe.
I know for a fact that they’ve added CO2 to the mixture as well. When I went in to a meeting the air was very warm, and I didn’t ware a jacket or sweater. Less than 2 hours later, when I came out to a sun that had not set yet, the chemtrails were ‘fanned out’ (just like a fan) in front of the sun, and were extremely ‘cold.’ There was ‘no less’ than a 10-12 degree temperature drop. The only thing that I know of that creates that much cold is CO2…just like the fire extinguishers that have CO2 propellant in them. Before you know it, they’re gonna start saying…”oh my!!! The CO2 levels are way up” and you watch to see how they’ll use it as an excuse for ‘everything’ including martial law. Mark my words…
I can’t tell if you are joking or not. In case you are serious, then there’s no way CO2 would do anything like what you describe. If it got colder, it was because the sun was behind some clouds.
I think he must surely be joking with this one. Otherwise someone must be dumping a whole lot of CO2 behind that cold front the other day. And someone keeps filling my fridge with CO2 because everytime I open the door cold air keeps spilling out.
In case he’s not joking- the amount of CO2 required to cause a twelve degree temp drop in an open air environment would also be deadly.
You should know that snoopy’s either joking, or so ignorant that he doesn’t know how ignorant he actually is. The easy way to blow him off is to turn up the figures for the proportion of CO2 in the atmosphere over the last century, which will show a small increase. He can’t be bothered, so why should we?
“I know for a fact that they’ve added CO2 to the mixture as well” is a SURE SIGN of ignorant mendacity. Or a malevolent sense of humor.
Wondering whether anyone else saw the two dark gray to black rectangular spirals extending out of the clouds over Los Angeles County last wednesday, May 26 at 8:30pm?
They were not dissipating like the usual contrails, nor were they moving out of shape. I was on my way to work so I couldn’t stick around to watch more than 15 minutes of driving.
What could they have been? The one on the south end was extremely long and the north end one was about 1/6 of the size of the very long one. The long one was streaming out of the cloud at about a 40-60 degree angle outwards and downwards from the clouds over the coastline. Wierdest darn thing I have ever seen with the naked eye. I have been a skywatcher for 49 years.
Hard to say from your description. I’d suspect, based on the time, that these were low clouds that were dark as the sun was setting behind the mountains, but the clouds above them were still bright. Maybe you could draw a diagram?
Hi, Uncinus, thanks for your response. I have to say, they were not clouds unless we now know how to train them to do tricks. They were not of cloud composition, they were like chains hanging from the clouds. They were VERY obvious and almost touching the earth, so to speak. I have never seen anything like them and they were very distinctly rectangular no room for question as far as that. Imagine a regular SPIRAL hanging from the clouds wanting to touch down to earth. Only, these were rectangular instead of circular segments to the spirals. Like if a Slinky instead of being round, was rectangular. What would that look like if you were to open it up. That´s what these looked like. Just when I thought I had seen ALL THAT YOU CAN SEE in the sky, I see something new. I LOVE IT. When I get my night vision goggles I will really see eye and brain candy. 😉
Well, that sounds fascinating. Pity there’s no photos of it. Maybe some kind of crepuscular ray?
http://www.google.com/images?q=crepuscular+rays
And it’s probably not this, unless you saw it low on the horizon, but it sounds slightly like a Fata Morgana. I see them sometimes over the ocean (I live on the West Side).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fata_Morgana_(mirage)
Or maybe a Kelvin Helmholtz cloud.
http://cloudappreciationsociety.org/gallery/index.php?showimage=4400
Just thought I would throw down the latest on the Solar Flares expected.
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2010/04jun_swef/
Also, remember how I mentioned ‘predictive programming’ with many disasters being put into movies or TV shows before they happen?
So it goes with the Gulf Oil Disaster….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmgeA3dr2uY
Does it even matter that both Goldman-Sachs & the BP CEO sold hundreds of millions of dollars of their shares mere weeks before the ‘accident’?
I’m sure it’s all just a co-inki-dink.
Back to the weather-modification denial channel…..
Stay Sovereign!
SPUSA
“I’m sure it’s all just a co-inki-dink.”
Of course you don’t believe that…
But, I’m still waiting for some ACTUAL evidence of “chemtrails”. Got any? And who denies that weather modification happens?! I just disagree with you on the scale. I’m, again, simply waiting for ANY evidence that the trails have ANYTHING to do with INTENTIONAL weather modification and that these trails contain “chemicals” other than water vapor and combustion gases. Do you have any of THAT evidence? Waiting…
Supposedly Alex Jones is coming out with a new Eugenics / Chemtrails / Fluoride / GMO documentary by Fall 2010.
He’s not infallible, but 90% of the stuff in his documentaries is on target (the only one I didn’t like at all was ‘Truth Rising’ which had way too much of that ‘We are Change’ group harassing people in a way that was counter-productive to getting the truth out in my opinion).
I hope his contacts, budget, and research will bear out many of the things we have been alluding to (and directly accusing the gov’t / corporations of).
It has already been pointed out that considering the number of U.S. logged flights per day it would be neigh on impossible to single out any one particular flight as being a ‘spray run’ or some such.
I can see from Boenids lengthy assertions that it would be very hard to conceal such an operation from a traditional point of view considering the logistics.
However, unfortunately we are not simply dealing with agencies that are limited to traditional means, and limited budgets.
In fact, as Donald Rumsfeld and a congressional panel disclosed, in 2001 the Pentagon had $2.3 Trillion (that’s $2,300,000,000,000) missing in ‘Unaccountable Expenditures’, which was approximately 25% of its budget that single year. IN THAT ONE YEAR I said.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpWqdPMjmo
What could be done with $2,300,000,000,000? Could you build another factory, and a small fleet of modified planes? Would you have money to buy off, blackmail, or otherwise influence individuals into silence?
Could you influence the media to downplay / blackout / demonize those attempting to expose the truth?
How about this episode of CSI where they declare you ‘ANTI-AMERICAN’ if you believe in evidence about fluoride & Chemtrails?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCogU15h–0
Does anybody want to argue that Fluoridation was heavily used in Stalin’s Gulags, and Hitler’s death camps to sedate the prisoners and make the ‘docile’ and weak?
http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd102.htm
The Fluoride Deception http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7984669833566646476#
So, we have the Military & Media Industrial Complexes working hand in hand to deny & obfuscate the truth, as they have for decades.
The book is still quite open on Chemtrails as far as I’m concerned.
Why do you accept these things without question? A bit of research will put that $2.3 trillion in context:
http://www.911myths.com/html/rumsfeld__9_11_and__2_3_trilli.html
For a start $2.3 trillion is not 25% of the military budget. It’s three times the budget. It’s not missing. That’s just the amount of transactions, over several years, that were inadequately documented. Meaning they were not recorded to proper accounting standards at the time, and work has to be done to bring that up to date.
I’m sure there are hundreds of millions of dollars going missing in the military budget every year though waste, incompetence and corruption. But it’s a bit of leap from there to “those long lasting trails in the sky are being deliberated sprayed”.
Please, I would urge you to consider each piece of evidence on its own merits, and not give favorable treatment to any claim that supports your beliefs, and and unfavorable treatment to those claims that do not. Judge the claims based on the evidence.
And of course there is a “black budget” of an undisclosed amount.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_budget
Lets say they spend all the $50 billion on chemtrails. What evidence is there that they are doing that?
And who will be representing scientific knowledge, as far as Aviation and Atmospheric science go, in Alex Jones’s spectacle? If the person/persons aren’t educated in atmospheric science and aviation, it will be ridiculous….just a long chemtrail video like the ones on youtube. Meaningless. I can’t wait to see it reviewed.
No- I’m sure they’ll be someone on that video that claims aviation knowledge. It’s easy knowledge to fake since few people have enough in-depth information to refute it.
You’ll have believed me up to this point haven’t you?
Here is a video I thought I linked, but I accidentally linked the same video twice.
Here is Senator Robert Byrd (D) W. Virginia at the Senate Confirmation Hearings for the Sec. of Defense again stating that..
“According to the DOD’s OWN AUDITORS, they cannot track $2.3 Trillion in ONE YEAR ALONE.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rRqeJcuK-A
Luckily for them, the ‘terrorists’ knew exactly which part of the Pentagon to hit to wipe out the entire budget/accounting offices section, and the key persons that would have been able to expose the accounting frauds.
How is that ‘treating favorably’ evidence to support my ‘conspiracy theories’?
It is what it is, and no amount of spin can undo it. Not yours, not theirs.
And if I had $50 Billion to spend, I would have ways and means that I could not even conceive of right now. But $50B is a drop in the bucket of what Sen. Byrd confirms is missing.
You pick and choose, and you use facts that are obviously false. You claim that $2.3 Trillion “went missing” in one year prior to 2001, when the ENTIRE FEDERAL BUDGET for that year was $1.8 Trillion.
You really don’t think there would be more a stink if the money actually went missing? It’s not missing. Find one verifiable quote that says it’s missing.
The entire thing is actually about interoperability between the various accounting systems that are used by the DOD. They can’t track the transactions properly, that’s all. What did Rumsfeld actually say?
http://www.911myths.com/html/rumsfeld__9_11_and__2_3_trilli.html
So the problem here is that you already believe that there is a vast conspiracy. So you distort the meaning of this to say that $2.3 trillion went missing in a year. This ignores both the fact that that is literally impossible, it’s not supported by subsequent investigation (in 2002 the amount of improperly tracked transactions was reduced to $900 billion, as they integrated their accounting systems), and that that’s NOT WHAT HE SAID.
But anyway, this does little for the chemtrail theory. Assume they have unlimited funds, is there any evidence that they are doing THIS in particular? Any actual evidence of spraying?
Because if you only evidence is “a lot of money is unaccounted for, and if they had lots of money, then they could do without leaving evidence”, then you could use the exact same argument for a million different theories.
Why pick this one?
“Find one verifiable quote that says it’s missing. ”
S-E-N-A-T-O-R B-Y-R-D I-S Q-U-O-T-E D (I am spelling it out for you, since you seem to have skipped by the entire last post)
Sen. Byrd’s QUOTE (out -of -his -mouth, his words, and for some reason you think you would know better?
“According to the DOD’s OWN AUDITORS, they cannot track $2.3 Trillion in ONE YEAR ALONE.”
Maybe your credentials outweigh his…?
– Wikipedia
I’m not saying he’s a saint -(former KKK member, civil rights filibusterer, etc…) some less than desirable things that he’s since repented for.
But, um…when it comes to knowing what he’s talking about in regards to budgets…my money’s on him, not you.
Don’t take it personally….or better yet, do.
Your game of semantics i.e. ‘missing vs. can’t track’ is really boorish.
The money is F’king gone, not to be seen again, not to be accounted for, EVER.
(Maybe it just got wedged down the side of the sofa…next to the remote control and some stale chips?)
I’m not disputing what the venerable Byrd said. I’m disputing your personal interpretation of it, which does not tally with the facts.
You seriously expect people to believe that an amount of money equal to one quarter of the GDP of the US in 1999 somehow went missing, and all that happened was a few people asked questions in committees?
Think about it for a while. Do some research. What’s the root source of this claim? What was originally said?
http://www.defense.gov/news/Jul2001/d20010710finmngt.pdf
So, on what basis do you claim the money is “gone”, when the original source, the DoDs, auditors, claim otherwise.
You are taking one sentence out of context, and using it to bolster your claims.
It’s like the people who discover that there is a program at the DOE called the “aerosol and radiative forcing program” and they think that proves that there’s a chemtrail program, then the actual program is practically the opposite of “chemtrails”.
“Does anybody want to argue that Fluoridation was heavily used in Stalin’s Gulags, and Hitler’s death camps to sedate the prisoners and make the ‘docile’ and weak?”
Of course. This, like your earlier remarks about how Holocaust would not happen if Jews were armed, does not sit well with reality.
Cite one credible Russian source for usage of fluor in gulag system.
There is this account:
http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd102.htm
From this guy:
Oliver Kenneth Goff (scroll down to read about him)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-Washing_%28book%29
And this other report:
http://www.arthritistrust.org/Articles/Sodium%20Fluoride%20The%20Obedience%20Drug.pdf
In any case there is certainly plenty of evidence the Nazi’s used it.
“From this guy:
Oliver Kenneth Goff (scroll down to read about him)”
See, maybe I wasn’t clear enough. I asked for credible (Scientologists aren’t) and Russian (Goff isn’t) source. All claims I was able to dig up still point to source that can be summed up as “one guy claiming to be communist”.
Basically, if fluoride in water is such great recipe for docile and/or dumb population, why no country in Soviet bloc ever used it?
“In any case there is certainly plenty of evidence the Nazi’s used it.”
Unfortunately, many of medicinal advancemenrs can be traced back to Nazis. This alone does not mean that they are harmful or inherently evil. Then again, if there is plenty of evidence, it would be easy for you to dig up couple of credible ones.
Getting a little off topic here.
Is the suggestion that because there’s a fluoride theory then that adds weight to the chemtrail theory? Because that’s not really a good argument. Fluoride is a fringe theory at best, and even if it were true I can’t see how it supports the chemtrail theory. If they are doing so well with fluoride, then why switch to chemtrails?
It’s interesting that the fluoride theory has been around for so long, despite the scientific evidence against it. It grew out of the anti-communist “red scare” movement, and had its roots in anti-inoculation movements daring back to the 1800s. There were lots of other theories along the way. I wonder how long the “chemtrail” theory will be around.
1953 flyer:
Yeah, that’s cute.
Here is the full version:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unholy_three.png
Hard to find exactly who the ‘Keep America Committee’ was.
About fluoride..
“The difference between the levels of fluoride causing toxic effects and the levels added to water to prevent tooth decay is vanishingly small and deeply troubling.”
– Dr. J. William Hirzy, Vice President, Environmental Protection Agency’s Headquarters Union, Washington DC.
The Fluoride question can continue to be debated, with very good reason when you watch this guy testify before congress – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRLz4a7lDVM
Interesting is this story:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2006/9/27/at-the-harvard-school-of-dental/
From this site:
http://www.fluoridealert.org/
Polio vaccines? Well eradicating polio is good, since they didn’t use thimerosal.
Then there’s this ‘Mental Hygiene’ thing, here aimed at presumably at ‘communist brainwashing’, though the term was coined by an american William Sweetser.
Who knows, perhaps when you set the thought ‘norms’ and thought ‘terminators’ in a community, through social, educational, and religious vectors, perhaps it is a form of mind-control?
However, it is also partly aimed at Zionist Jewry, with the inclusion of Rabbi Spitz’ essay, which the ‘Keep America Committee’ seems not to like.
“GLAMOROUS PURIM FORMULA
Exterminate Anti-Semitic Termites As Our Ancestors Did 2,500 Years Ago…
…We must fill our jails with anti-Semitic gangsters, we must fill our insane asylums with anti-Semitic lunatics, we must combat every alien Jew-hater, we must harass and prosecute our Jew baiters to the extreme limits of the laws, we must humble and shame our anti-Semitic hoodlums to such an extent that none will wish to dare to become ‘fellow-travelers’.”
http://www.come-and-hear.com/clips/ah_1946.html
I’m half Ashkenazim blood and I don’t like the sound of that either.
The fluoride conspiracy theory never really made sense to me. If it’s so harmful then why are there no health differences between communities that fluoridate their water and those that do not?
Similarly, why are Americans living longer now, if we’ve somehow been systematically poisoned for the last two decades or so by “chemtrails”
The history of such conspiracy theories is very interesting though. You can find some references to the “Keep America Committee” in Google Books
They are described as a “radical right” “super patriot” group and have published such interesting sounding titles as “Quakers sponsor Negro homosexual”. They were also known as the “American Birthright Committee” and the “Action Patriots”. Part of the popular Southern California anti-communist movement in the 1950s and 60s
A new Alex Jones article full of fun misunderstandings about contrails. Of course the writer knows the full history leading up to this de-population plot using Chemtrails and geoengineering. Make sure you put on your tin-foil hats as you read just to be sure.
http://www.infowars.com/have-you-looked-at-the-skies-lately/
The comments after that story are priceless. Lots of people have noticed that the “chemtrails” have practically stopped now we are into summer:
But instead of the natural conclusion that persistent contrails depend on the weather, you get:
Which unfortunately is one of the more sensible comments.
I have to include this comment just because it shows what we are dealing with.
wayne1951 Says:
June 22nd, 2010 at 2:47 pm
no the govt dummy
their spraying us with radioactive material worser than du dupleted unranium but barium salts that is from aluminum gee i spelled it correctly for once
the trolls where did they come from today on this site they diss this and that lets just put them in a chamber and fill it with that barium salts to breath
Is there any better evidence of chemtrails not existing than looking at the level of intelligence of the average chemtrailer?
“It’s water vapour”
“Jet fuel is not made of water”
Priceless!
Here is a dentist with 30 years of professional history disclosing the dangers of fluoride.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEaYyfWJcdc
On your toothpaste box, it recommends you call the Poison Control Center if you swallow their product. True or not true?
Since there is the same amount of fluoride in a glass of water as there is in a recommended dose of toothpaste, what is the difference when one requires you to call the Poison Control Center, and the other is not?
Why, when European countries do not fluoridate their water, do they have the same decreased incidence of ‘cavities’ in teeth as in the USA? Clearly, IF any benefit of decreased dental caries is provided from fluoride, it is from TOPICAL application, not systemic ingestion (which poses unnecessary risk to your tissues, organs, and glands).
“Fluoride is most effective when used topically, after the teeth have erupted.”
SOURCE: Cheng KK, et al. (2007). Adding fluoride to water supplies. British Medical Journal 335(7622):699-702.
“..it is now accepted that systemic fluoride plays a limited role in caries prevention.”
SOURCE: Pizzo G, Piscopo MR, Pizzo I, Giuliana G. (2007). Community water fluoridation and caries prevention: a critical review. Clinical Oral Investigations 11(3):189-93.
“the major anticaries benefit of fluoride is topical and not systemic.”
SOURCE: National Research Council. (2006). Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Scientific Review of EPA’s Standards. National Academies Press, Washington D.C. p 13.
“Since the current scientific thought is that the cariostatic activity of fluoride is mainly due to its topical effects, the need to provide systemic fluoride supplementation for caries prevention is questionable.”
SOURCE: European Commission. (2005). The Safety of Fluorine Compounds in Oral Hygiene Products for Children Under the Age of 6 Years. European Commission, Health & Consumer Protection Directorate-General, Scientific Committee on Consumer Products, September 20.
WHY are we still dumping massive amounts of this chemical into the water supply? Who does it benefit, when it clearly is not the people ingesting this substance?
Could it be the industries that produce Fluorine chemical by-products, and need an inexpensive way to dispose of this toxic substance?
Betcha.
In fact, fluoride is more toxic than lead, and just slightly less so than arsenic.
http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/accidents/f-lead.html
It is used in insecticide:
http://piratenews.org/sodium-fluoride-insecticide.jpg
And is labeled as toxic on the packaging of Sodium Fluoride:
http://www.infowars.com/images/fluoridebag.jpg
Do you really feel it necessary to keep feeding it to people?
Toothpaste has a max 1000 ppm fluoride (one gram per liter), water has 1ppm (1 milligram per liter). If you consumed an entire regular 230g tube of toothpaste that would be 0.23g or 230mg of fluorine. To consume 230mg of fluorine from water you would have to drink 230 liters of water. The water itself would poison you after just five liters, far before the fluorine did anything. A child, however could easily eat an entire tube of toothpaste. That’s why the warning is there.
I think everyone understands that all substances, even water, are poisonous if you consume too much of them. Sure, fluoride is poison if you consume too much. But it’s also a naturally occurring substance that the body naturally excretes if consumed.
However: there’s no apparent difference in health (besides a fairly small decrease in the number of cavities) between communities that fluoridate and those that do not. So obviously it’s not causing any significant problems.
If you are interested in fluoridation, I’d encourage you to read the CDC’s toxicological profile:
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp11.html
REF Lost Budget
I certainly hope there is nobody here who “believes” the lost, as in I cannot find it, budget excuse. If there is, WE ARE REALLY IN TROUBLE, LOL.
NATO held unprecendeted exercises during this time, their planes weren’t affected.
Operation brilliant ardent
They actually had to suspend various military flights during Brilliant Ardent, which was based in Germany, and so less affected by the cloud.
The planes that were not affected were the ones that avoided flying through the cloud.
http://www.usafe.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123199996
My mate works for the RAF and he said the Eurofighters weren’t affected. He was based at Conningsby, but has since been deployed to Afghanistan.
He was a good source of information until he got sent to Afghanistan at short notice.
But the Eurofighter WAS affected:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1267996/Iceland-volcano-RAF-suspends-Typhoon-flight-training-ash-engine.html
Sorry Uncinus for a late reply on this, but I just wanted to stir the pot on an old issue you mentioned on Fluoride… You said, “the fluoride conspiracy theory never really made sense to me. If it’s so harmful then why are there no health differences between communities that fluoridate their water and those that do not?”
-Then why have fluoride at all if there hasn’t been a difference? No improvement or no harm?
Just a thought…. I know it was just your observation though. I did remember seeing a news story in America that people had brown stains on their teeth and if my memory served me correctly, they said it was from excessive fluoride. I don’t know if the news agency verified that claim or not. Just going off memory.
I don’t think people who are reading about this water theory have read much about fluoride to begin with as they’ll learn it can range from benign to dangerous and forms compounds with just about anything. So it is pretty much present everywhere.
I think the same ignorance on compounds, their presence in industrial pollutants, and other things. Examples aluminum and barium lead to similar problems.
As Uncinus said, the flouride research’s conclusions are that there are no negative impacts to health. The flouride was added to reduce the incidence of tooth decay. I don’t think the researchers considered any incidence of staining to be a negative health impact.
Have you seen “Dr. Strangelove”? 🙂
I was thinking of health effects other than dental when I said that. The opponent always say it’s a poison with lots of negative effects on health, yet none of these health effects ever show up.
On the dental side there is flouorosis, but that occurs more with naturally occurring variations in fluoride.
There is strong evidence that it reduces tooth decay, but it’s not clear if it continues to be necessary in highly developed countries with good dental care. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation#Evidence_basis
The fact that conspiracy theorists keep brining this up is perhaps indicative of the quality of some of their research.