How many people are interested in chemtrails? Not very many I suspect. But how to measure them? One way is to see how popular they are on the internet. You could measure how many web pages mention “chemtrails”, but that could give a distorted picture, as the people who believe in chemtrails might tend to be much more likely to post their beliefs on the internet. Lots of people knit, for example, but only a tiny fraction of them make knitting web sites.
We could count blog posts, but that has similar problems, as people who believe in conspiracy theories seem quite keen on spreading those theories, and so are more likely to blog about them
The best way that occurred to me was to measure search terms. Simply see how many people were googling for “chemtrails” vs. other words. In this Googlified world, if people are interested in something then they google it.
Here’s my raw data:
| Google Blogs | Google Images | Video | News | Scholar | Pages/Posts | Groutability 2006 | ||
| “Global Warming” | 67500000 | 733828 | 996000 | 18420 | 32584 | 102000 | 91.98 | 80 |
| Ufo | 36700000 | 317795 | 3335000 | 163722 | 929 | 24000 | 115.48 | 80 |
| Knitting | 20600000 | 601088 | 668000 | 7035 | 1715 | 143000 | 34.27 | 50 |
| Archery | 11900000 | 95539 | 296000 | 3614 | 1453 | 12500 | 124.56 | 12 |
| Parkour | 4510000 | 35404 | 83100 | 39931 | 49 | 39 | 127.39 | 8 |
| Fread | 2600000 | 3224 | 8280 | 32 | 10 | 3580 | 806.45 | 1.6 |
| Grouting | 1600000 | 6873 | 17800 | 193 | 58 | 36600 | 232.79 | 1 |
| Bboy | 1210000 | 14443 | 25700 | 77250 | 10 | 49 | 83.78 | 3 |
| Chemtrail(s) | 791000 | 4828 | 9180 | 2123 | 5 | 38 | 163.84 | 1 |
| “fox hunting” | 707000 | 7923 | 15900 | 106 | 64 | 2380 | 89.23 | 1.2 |
| “Killer Bees” | 434000 | 7090 | 10400 | 195 | 197 | 568 | 61.21 | 0.8 |
| Morgellons | 236000 | 3756 | 2970 | 143 | 4 | 26 | 62.83 | 1 |
| Vexillology | 112000 | 1037 | 1610 | 0 | 4 | 34 | 108 | 0 |
| Reborning | 47000 | 397 | 1070 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 118.39 | 0 |
The columns are fairly self explanatory. They are the number of results returned by google for web, blogs, images, videos, news and scholar. The pages/posts column is the ratio of total web pages to blog posts. The “groutability” column is the ratio search volume for that word to the search volume of “grouting”. I chose grouting as it seemed like a thing people would be searching for at a fairly constant volume, but not too much.
I chose search terms that had a similar result to chemtrails. I also added some outliers, that were very popular, or very unpopular, mostly activities practiced only by a few (like reborning). I included “morgellons”, as it seems like the most similar thing I could find with a distinct name.
You can look at the numbers and draw your own conclusions. Chemtrails has more results than “killer bees”, but less than “bboy” ( a type of athletic break-dancing). It has vastly less than knitting and archery. But a lot more than “reborning” (making realistic baby dolls).
But how many people are interested in chemtrails? Well, there are about 30,000,000 knitters in the country, and 600,000 blog results. So given the 4828 blogs results for chemtrails, that would indicate 241,000 people have some interest in chemtrails. But, like I said, it’s not easy to accurately extrapolate. If you could extrapolate from blogs, you could say there are three times as many chemtrailers as there are vexillologists (flag enthusiasts).
Or you could say: a lot more people are interested in Parkour than are interested in chemtrails.
[Update] Chemtrails on Usenet (archived on Google Groups), were only mentioned in 1999. Here are the year-to-year search results for the word “chemtrails”. There are NO results prior to 1999
1999 – 1070
2000 – 2050
2001 – 2810
2002 – 2250
2003 – 2060
2004 – 2100
2005 – 1570
2006 – 2450
2007 – 2230
Assume I work for the CIA for now, as it saves you spending time trying to establish context. Just address the science and the facts. What is incorrect here?
Albert A.: You can not make people believe your crap by just making claims backed by your own-made bullshit science.
Where do you come off? Have you the faintest idea about what you’re talking about?
How come this “own-made bullshit science” is available in secret vaults known as “libraries”. stored away in data devices which are called “books”?
You are not scientific
How would YOU know? You certainly aren’t.
you are liers
I think you mean “liars”. Again, as you are ignorant you have no means of judgement, so that means a lot.
you perform no studies
Is it psychic awareness that you have? I’m sorry, you’re at the wrong site.
you otsource your thoughts to those who hired you.
“Outsource”? When does “psychic” become “psychotic”, do you think?
No critical thought.
The “ignorance” argument works for a second time here.
You are attempting to mislead the population
And for a third time here.
making us dumber and more ignorant to real truth.
Sorry, but the crime had taken place before Uncinus had arrived.
You are hypocrites.
No. You really know NOTHING about this subject. That is why you have such profound feelings about it. I would really like to see you discover how stupidly you are behaving right now.
You are Nazis worse than those of hitlers reign.
PM me about it – I’m beachcomber2008 on YouTube.
Shame on you people.
That reminds me of Dubyah…
JazzRoc:
You are not scientific
How would YOU know? You certainly aren’t.
Way too quick to make claims yourself. So you can judge me but i can not you.
LOL who are you… are you superior to me in some way? Want to elaborate?
So what makes you so certain and me not?
That is all you people do here.. take people claims and turn them around to point back at them. Media does that so well. Thats what you folks on here remind me of.. the media. Bunch of liars with no knowledge repeating what is written to them.
Get real you losers.
No personal attacks please people. Let’s keept it to the science
If you would like to present some evidence, or correct something that has been written, then please bring forth your facts.
Looks like the same old song and dance from another believer.
I think it’s amusing that time and time again they refuse to step up to the plate and actually discuss the issue. This one doesn’t even seem to have the courage to point out even one inacuracy.
Albert A, I challenge you to provide a SINGLE instance where I have tried to “disinform people and lead them in the wrong direction.” YOU and the rest of the chemtrail cult members are the ones who continuously lie to each other based on your own fear and ignorance. Sorry, anything and everything I write about the subjects of aviation, atmospheric science and the trails in the sky is factual. NOTHING the chemtrail believers post on youtube has ANY merit and only serves to prove the ignorance of those who are part of that group.
YOU know NOTHING about air saturation, atmospheric science and aviation. How do I know this? Because you accept “chemtrails” as fact with no reason to other than your own paranoid speculation. You can insult me all you want, but in the end, I’m one of the good guys here…you are not.
Umm…I wasn’t aware that the protocol required that I have different names for different websites. Why WOULD I?! I understand that your “chemtrail believers” like to pretend that you are many people and open several accounts on different websites to make appear as if you are part of a larger group, but I don’t feel the need to play silly games like that.
Hmmm…I’m a bit confused here…are you referring to the “chemtrail” believers who accuse any/everyone that disagrees with them of being “paid government agents” and “shills” and “disinformation agents” and “Liers” (LOL!) and who CERTAINLY make NO SENSE WHATSOEVER! Or are you referring to those, like me, who post VERY basic, simple irrefutable scientific fact where others are simply posting paranoid assumption and speculation? I’m not surprised that you don’t understand what those of us who side with science over paranoid assumption write/say on youtube. It is WAY over your head, even though it’s based on VERY simple science. Don’t worry, you aren’t EXPECTED to understand it. I don’t post on youtube to change YOUR mind…I post so that others, who may be influenced by the words of the uneducated, will take some extra time to learn the OTHER side of this “debate” (LOL) instead of falling for the hoax based on the words of uneducated cultists. You have fallen for a hoax because of your lack of education. Please don’t blame ME for YOUR ignorance.
faithinscience is a troll….he loves us thats why he spends so much of his time with us. Mkultra is the kind of science he likes brainwashing is his game,oh right that didnt happen. Ignorance of human history would prove that your narrow mindedness is a true sign of stupidity. The pile of bullshit is so big,getting though it with a dinner fork is difficult but not impossible if you have enough people with forks. Education is a on going thing all variables must be acknowledged before you come to a conclusion.
You are wrong.
Denialist
“Denialist”
Actually, I’m a realist, and you are uneducated. As hard as that is for you to accept, it is the truth. How dare you pretend to understand atmospheric science and aviation when it is abundantly obvious that neither you, nor your friends online (any and all “chemtrail” believers), have ever studied the subjects from anyone qualified to teach them. You have accepted crap you found online as “truth” and now you pay the price for being lazy. You live your life in fear of things you only pretend to understand. That’s funny…enjoy!
Geoengineering, aerosol campaigns, WEATHER MODIFICATION INC. David Kieth, Evergreen Aviation, weather modification in the Vietnam war, 45 days of monsoon. David Kieth said he could bring back a ice age if you so desired and for a reasonable price. I dont find any of this funny, except for the overwhelming fact that you have nothing better to do than try to put down anyone with a opinion that differs from yours. Like I said before, education is an ongoing process but not in your world you already know it all. Is David Kieth qualified to teach us about geoengineering and the outcome of long term weather modification ?
That’s all great, but where is the evidence that the trails in the sky have ANYTHING to do with any of that. All you have is assumption and conjecture. Notice how there are more jet planes at lower altitudes that have NOTHING behind them at all…they are the ones spraying the clear liquid as you blame commercial air traffic leaving persistent contrails as the plane performing the geoengineering.
I don’t claim to know it all. But, I know what evidence is and I know what persistent contrails are, and how they form and how ALL of the variables result in differing trails. I KNOW this stuff..you do not. You “believe” you have properly educated yourself enough to dismiss the truth about persistent spreading contrails, jet engines, and air saturation. You have no idea how obvious it is, to those of us who took the time to learn the facts, that you are full of shit.
Evidence is important. I see NO such thing as evidence to support the “chemtrail” theory. Nothing at all. If you would care to provide anything that proves the lines in the sky are NOT persistent contrails, I’d appreciate it if you would post it.
This is an ongoing investigation that has to be done by people like myself to find the truth because no one else is doing that. What I do know is that insurance companies pay WEATHER MODIFICATION INC to suppress hail in my area. This is something you wont see on your local weather forecast though,they dont like to talk about 50.000 kg of silver Iodide per year that is dumped in the atmosphere. This is why i started looking for answers to many questions I have about weather and who makes the call on me and my families well being. As far as contrails go, a sample from a few trails would be the answer. could you get me one faithinscience? or anyone please.
The question is why you think there is something in the contrails in the first place. Surely you’d want some evidence before you spend thousands of dollars sampling a trail?
What exactly is it that make you think the contrails are suspicious?
When silver iodide is dispersed into the sky, where rain clouds are, do they leave long lasting white trails? Cloud seeding has nothing to do with the BS spread about persistent contrails. You just assume that since both things are done “in the sky”, they must be related. Sorry, I see NOTHING in any “chemtrail” video on youtube or on ANY other site, that even remotely comes close to proving that the long lasting white trails we see in the sky are deliberate or have ANY other explanation than a VERY simple and sound scientific one. Every trail you see (or don’t see) is an indication of the conditions of the atmosphere. I’m waiting for someone to prove me wrong. If you want to know what aluminum is in your drinking water, look at how many aluminum cans are floating (or sunk) in any river, stream or lake in the USA…disgusting. I see NO evidence that any aluminum has intentionally been dropped from planes as part of a “spray”.
ruffneck-
As I fly through “chemtrails” on a weekly basis I would say I have the ability to provide a sample but how would you like me to obtain it?
There’s something I’ve mentioned several times here that I would like to bring up again.
You must understand that despite what you may read in the media- all aircraft get air for the cabin from the outside during the flight. This air is constantly going into the cabin and back out again. We get the compressed, UNFILTERED, air from the front part of the engines. It passes through the pressurization system, through the cabin and back out through the outflow valves to the outside again. The air in the cabin is constantly being refreshed from the outside so anything we fly through is sent into the cabin where we breath it.
One major problem I have with the chemtrail theory is the fact that so many claim the trails are spread from high altitudes and then fall to the ground to affect something. If that’s the case they would have to be HIGHLY concentrated at altitude to cause any change below. If I fly though one at altitude I would be exposed to an extremely high dose of whatever exists in the trail and would thus be extremely effected. I fly through “chemtrails” at least once every other flight. Sometimes just across one or sometimes I fly nearly in line with them for a few miles.
So why do I not present any symptoms or health problems?
This argument, in my mind at least, negates any and all claims that chemtrails are used for ANY biological reason.
But aside from that- how would you like me to collect a sample?
“So why do I not present any symptoms or health problems?”
Ooh ooh…I KNOW!! I KNOW!!!!
You had that “antidote shot” you paid shill disinformer scum!!!
I would like to pick the trails to sample. Yesterday I observed one jet at high altitude and its contrail dissipated within seconds. Then latter I observed several jets at a much lower altitude leaving what I believe to be chemtrails all over the place. You try to explain the high levels of aluminum via aluminum cans, what about the barium? Oh are sure you dont show any symptoms faithinscience? alzheimers is one you should probable have your doc check out for ya. Why are so worried about were someone spends their money,must be gov man. How much did the tobacco co. pay scientist to back up the (smoking wont kill you) bullshit. When it comes to snake oil big pharma is the biggest perpetrator.
Barium is NATURALLY occurring. And I have YET to see any evience that the level of barium ANYWHERE has increased, or is even a problem. I see the same crap passed around between chemtrail believers…but no concrete evidence. Have YOU seen any such thing?! Even if there were an increase, can you prove it’s from the trails nad not from some other commercial or industrial source? And I don’t “try to explain” the aluminum, it was just an observation. I live near the Sudbury river in MA, and always have, and there are millions of cans in that river…no doubt in my mind. I can SEE that source of aluminum…I don’t have to “speculate” about trails in the sky. I have MORE evidence that says my theory is correct than any chemtrailer does….
I have an education in these subjects. No alzheimers here…But,. you should check with your doctor and ask him if it’s normal to pretend that you understand these subjects, even though it’s obvious you don’t.
“Why are so worried about were someone spends their money,must be gov man.”:
Spoken like a true conspiracy nut…
Please, DON’T take anything from “big pharma”. .. no one is forcing you to!
RuffNeck Wrote:
“As far as contrails go, a sample from a few trails would be the answer. could you get me one…anyone please.”
Thats easy- just hire one of Weather Modification Inc’s numerous sample and measurement planes to go sample a contrail or 10 of your choice.
http://www.weathermodification.com/aircraft.php
Like he’s going to accept a sample from “the bad guys”.
Even if a sample was collected and sampled in front of them, they wouldn’t BELIEVE the results unless the sample was found to contain high levels of Barium and Aluminum.
ruffneck said:
For aluminum, all you need to know is that 7% of the earth’s crust is aluminum. It’s basically everywhere, and varies from place to place depending on the geology.
Barium is also a naturally occurring chemical that is found to some degree in the ground everywhere, and hence in the air you breath every day.
The problem with the claims linking Al and Ba to contrails is that:
A) Tests have never shown levels higher than expected, with normal variance.
B) Nothing connects the ground levels to contrails five miles above.
C) If they did come from contrails, then results would be elevated evenly over wide swathes of land, instead the supposedly anomalous results are highly localized.
It’s basically an urban legend.
Isn’t it bauxite?
Corundum?
so what’s the deal ruffneck?
I presented a major problem with chemtrails in general and you have no comment? No further discussion? No counterpoints?
This is about the fourth time I’ve presented this problem here and so far no one has presented anything to refute my statements. It’s always just gone by the wayside. Same with my statements that I routinely leave persistant contrails over the ocean and at night. Or at night over the ocean. No one EVER says- you know captfitch, that is odd- maybe I should look into this further.
Whatever.
You are wrong
wow
you win
That was for faithinscience,
Ruffneck, I’m sure people would be happy to discuss the chemtrail theory with you if you could product some evidence that the trails were anything unusual. But your evidence seems to be stuff like saying there is clouds seeding (which everyone agrees). And mentioning that scientists have studied geoengineering (which they have for decades). You give no evidence that chemtrail are any different from persistent contrails.
You mentioned David Keith earlier. Here’s his take:
Now why is the fact that Keith has discussed geoengineering somehow proof of the chemtrail theory, while simultaneously the fact that he does not think it is going on is dismissed as irrelevant.
How do you choose what to believe? Faith or science?
David Keith also said he could bring back an ice age if you want.
So what? Of course you could, everyone knows that. You just basically have to simulate the effect of a large volcano by injecting a lot of aerosols into the atmosphere. This has been known for decades. It’s the same concept as nuclear winter.
We could do a lot of things that we don’t. What’s your point?
Watch his talk at TED:
http://www.ted.com/talks/david_keith_s_surprising_ideas_on_climate_change.html
I’d watch the whole thing if I were you, but if you don’t have the time try from 11:20 onwards. He explains what we could do, and why we would not do, and what we might do instead.
And if you watch through to the end:
Please watch the whole thing. It will really clarify things.
Well thats all cleared up for me then science has all the answers and I will go back to sleep now. Technology has surpassed our humanity.
Science does not have all the answers. It’s just the best method of arriving at answers that most closely model observed reality.
What do you use to find answers? Why not science?
I use past history. Science causes way to much collateral damage.
Well, we can put science aside for a moment, and look at the history of contrails:
https://contrailscience.com/pre-wwii-contrails/
And the history of the “chemtrail” theory:
https://contrailscience.com/a-brief-history-of-chemtrails/
What does that tell you? Contrails have always behaved like this, and the chemtrail theory was started to sell more quack medicine?
That combustion engines make more smoke than a jet engine. old smokey. Crop dusters use an oiler on the exhaust for wind direction.
The 1921 contrails were not smoke, just like modern contrails they were water in the form of ice crystals. They understood that even back then, see this account from the time:
https://contrailscience.com/wp-content/uploads/argonne-battle-cloud-mwr-049-06-0348b.pdf
So there you have it – history says that contrails have always behaved like this.
So why do you think that some contrails are deliberately different? How do they act different to how they acted in 1921?
Americans use chaff in WWII, could have been tests. Go figure,soldiers seeing strainge things coming from aircraft. Sounds like Gulfwar,Vietnam or Ethiopia and probable every war since we could fly.
But nothing like contrails. Nothing to suggest that the chemtrail theory is correct.
I have worked in -50 and if the exhaust of the engines on the rig didnt dissipate it would be in a constant fog.
It also require sufficient humidity. When you get the right conditions you get ice fog. See:
https://contrailscience.com/ground-level-contrails/
Again, Ruffneck…WHY do you pretend to understand all the variables, that determine the types of contrails, when it’s painfully OBVIOUS that you have never studied the subjects that easily explain EVERY trail in the sky. Your argument is nothing but “belief” and an ignorance about science. Not very good…
You have accepted your youtube based indoctrination and “believe” you are “right”.
What is the byproduct of hydrocarbon combustion, and how much of the byproduct is produced by a single jet engine flying through supersaturated air? Remember, the ambient air pulled into the engine, is compressed and ignited with fuel. Where does the moisture go? And if that moisture is released into an area of the sky that is cold enough, why WOULDN’T it condense and freeze?!? And remember, BEFORE the jet engine came through, this moisture was nothing but suspended ice particles in VERY cold air…a frozen aerosol. Of COURSE it’s cold enough to support the trail…in that specific area of the sky. But, the sky is a fluid and it acted upon by MANY forces. Can you name some of the variables that would change the conditions in the parts of the sky that DON’T support persistent contrails?!
I’m sorry, but you have fallen for an elaborate hoax. But hey, no one is trying to force you to believe anything. Believe what you want. But don’t make statements of fact here and not expect to be challenged if you are wrong. Evidence matters, and I see NONE to support the chemtrail cult. Still waiting with an open mind though. But every time someone presents evidence, it’s nothing of the sort. It ends up being a lack of understanding, and ignorance, based on complete arrogance that people have about being able to correctly train themselves about aviation, atmospheric science, thermal activity, clouds, and jet engines by watching youtube videos made by OTHER ignorant fools.
You guys cant prove that there isnt contrail modification going on and at this point I cant prove there is chem put in the fuel to make contrails/chemtrails. I cant swallow the perfect conditions for contrails everyday. Ignorance is bliss they say, go back to sleep. EPA registers Silver Iodide as a hazardous substance, mask up.
It’s not about proof. It’s about evidence.
You don’t have any evidence to support the “chemtrail” theory. There is lots of evidence to support the “contrail” theory. So why even give “chemtrails” any credence at all?
Silver iodine spraying does not form trails. It’s basically irrelevant to the subject. But since you keep bringing it up, could you at least look into what it means for it to be “registered as a hazardous substance”? You know there are THOUSANDS of substances that are released into the atmosphere in vast quantities on a daily basis that are as toxic, or more toxic than silver. So what is it about this particular substance that you feel deserves attention.
Why not, say, look at mercury? Why do you feel that silver pollution is so much more important than mercury pollution?
” I cant swallow the perfect conditions for contrails everyday. ”
That’s because you don’t understand the science. And apparently, never will. It’s OK though, believe what you want. Those of us who understand the facts, understand that there is nothing to worry about. Those of you who don’t understand the facts, have a different world view. My condolences…
I don’t understand how referring to someone who hasn’t taken the time to properly educate themselves in a particular subject as “uneducated” in the particular subject is “wrong”. But, I apologize. I am uneducated in LOTS of subjects, but the difference with me is that I don’t go to sites about baking and sewing and prove my ignorance. Oh well, to those who are offended by my remarks about a lack of education, I apologize for pointing that obvious lack of education…out. My bad!
What are they releasing on the gulf oil spill?
Perhaps you can explain why that’s related to contrails?
This is not a site to discuss pollution in general. Feel free to discuss pollution from aircraft exhaust though, or any theorized high level spray activity that forms clouds like contrails.
The gulf situation, sad though it is, is not relevant.
OK appleman chart. atmospheric sounding data. Altitude+Temp+Hum.= con or nocontrail/chemtrail.
What about it?
Yeah, still waiting for someone to correctly use sounding data and the Appleman chart to prove contrails aren’t contrails. I have seen no evidence that using the appleman chart from the ground, with no data for the specific location, is anything but folly. I see a lot of chat about the Applman chart, but I have yet to meet a “chemtrail” believer that has shown he/she actually knows how to use it. Or understands how it’s designed to BE used. I suggest that someone get some training from a professional before they continue to write about how the Appleman chart supposedly proves “chemtrails”. My apologies if suggesting that limited experience and training with the Appleman chart makes anyone sound “stupid” or “ignorant”. It’s just that the Appleman chart, when used correctly, will only tell a pilot, if they are leaving tails in real time, based on the data used from the airspace they are flying in. Using it from the ground is ONLY useful if one has the data for the EXACT airspace they are looking at. Again, not trying to sound insulting to those who have yet to learn about the Appleman chart from a professional who is trained to explain such things. It’s just that people pretending to understand how to use instrumentation doesn’t help the cause.
Hey faithinscience iam getting educated now. Is the appleman chart or atmospheric sounding data on this site?
I honestly don’t know. Nor do I care, the Appleman is a red herring.
As I have pointed out, without sounding data from the EXACT area the plane is flying, the Appleman serves as a good guessing tool. Quite useless from the ground. I know a person on youtube who has used the Applmen chart as “proof” that chemtrails are real, I have yet to see him (her?) actually use it to do any such thing. Why would you try to learn about the Appleman chart here? Do you see any certified instructors? I know I’m not qualified to instruct anyone on how to use it and I haven’t seen anyone claim to be qualified to teach anyone anything, here. The information about the Applmean chart COULD be here, but will you believe it? Do you trust this site? Maybe you could use the internet to find someone who can prove their credentials and maybe explain a thing or two to you.
Well, you still need to understand the Appleman chart in order to understand the criteria for contrail formation and persistence. So the chart is a useful learning tool.
Now measuring the humidity is really another subject, as is how well you can extrapolate the atmospheric soundings.
It if were really so easy to disprove the formation of persistent contrails then someone would have done it in a scientifically verifiable manner. Instead you get, at best, people saying a 12 hour old reading, from 100 miles away, proves that a particular contrail should not have persisted.
Unfortunately the fact that the contrail persisted is a much better indicator of the atmospheric conditions than the actual soundings. Have a look at the graph with Myth #2 here:
https://contrailscience.com/chemtrail-myths/
Funny how you mention the Appleman chart as a useful tool for learning. The site that most people refer to when bringing up it’s usefulness is a ground school setting. It uses the sounding data from miles away just as a input for demonstration purposes, they need to have values to use the chart, and since they aren’t in an airplane…the sounding data is useful. . But, the people using the Appleman as proof of chemtrails, believe that acquiring “old data”, is the correct way to use the chart all the time, based on the “lesson” from that site. It’s kinda funny… just sayin’.
I just thought it was odd that you didnt have a link to these very helpful tools in understanding the different variables required to form persistent contrails.
The “Links” section has several articles that discuss the Appleman chart, and it’s problems. Have a read through:
https://contrailscience.com/files/Contrail_Uncertainties.pdf
I found this site, because a friend of mine has been talking about this chemtrail theory for months and it is affecting his life, and since I don’t know anything about it I have been searching around on the net looking for factual evidence to put forward to him to maybe help him see that this theory is just that, it’s not a FACT. He believes that these trails are a cover-up by Corporations above the government who know of a planet approaching the earth near to the sun which is going to cause a catastrophe and wipe out much of the earths population when it interferes with the earths gravitational pull. The chemtrails are what he believes are used to obscure our view of this planet and prevent a panic of global proprtions. There are so many holes in this theory that it’s hard to know where to start, especially since this information is sourced by a woman called Nancy who is an emissary from an alien race who provide her with this data to help ‘earthlings’.
I am worried about my mate, 5 years ago he was going to move to Sweden because this Nancy bird said it was the only safe place on earth, and when nothing happened it still didn’t deter him from believing all this. He is now moving away from the local area because it is too near the sea and there will be 400 foot tidal waves when the ‘terrible day’ is upon us. These conspiracies are dangerous to people, he believes he is on earth to help people when this happens, he is confined to his bedroom most of his life outside of work, and smokes weed to cope with the boredom of his life, but if I ever try to speak against or offer a debate about the things he believes in he presents another FACT from this Nancy woman or another source of conspiracy about chemtrails or planet x. To him this is a total 100% cast in stone fact, and in 20 years time IF nothing has happened or IF he is proved wrong he will likely become a miserable old guy who wishes he had lived his life according to his desires rather than in line with a conspiracy.
Be careful with these conspiracies, if they don’t end up being true you could waste so much valuable time panicking and worrying about needless things.
Worried friend, there is nothing you can do to help your friend.
He will “believe” what he believes no matter what anyone says/writes/does. In 20 years he will still “believe” this. The same evidence/information that is here now will still be here in 20 years. He ignores it now, he will ignore it then. It’s a shame that there are so many “chemtrail” hoax believers out there…but, “chemtrail” hoax believers they will remain.
Find a new friend. He’s gone…
Yeah this is very true, it seems like no matter what evidence is put forward there is a counter-defense in place. He told me about a site where information from this Nancy Lieder is shared about what will happen and how it will become survival of the fittest and only the strong will survive, to teach humanity love for others before love for self. At the bottom of the site it was predicted in may 2003, 7 years ago!! When I present this information he then says..”AH, The White Lie, they sent the wrong message on purpose!!!!” I mean what can you do?!?!?!?
I totally accept that he thinks this way, I think it stems from something strange we saw in the sky about 20 years ago, many of us saw it and others did to (there were people out in the street looking up at it), and I was very happy to know that there are unexplained phenomena out there, and left it at that, as I knew I would never discover for sure what it was we saw. I think it sent my friend the other way and he has lost himself in conspiracy…and because I know there are crazy things out there I can’t say to him for sure that he is barking up the wrong tree. The rest of my mates all have a more easy approach about it and think it’s a load of bollocks basically, maybe I would benefit from developing the same approach.
I have seen MANY strange “UFO’s” myself. But, just because I can’t identify it, doesn’t mean it’s alien or a military secret. To be honest, I LOVE the fact that the military hides information from regular folks! There is just so much information that NEEDS to be restricted because there are just too many loony-tunes who want to sell the info to the wrong people. Greed makes people do strange things.
I read some about Nancy Lieder ( I googled “Nancy emissary from an alien race” and it came right up) and can’t for the life of me understand why anyone would take what she has to say seriously. She doesn’t have a background in science Her “beliefs” about Hale-Bopp ALONE are enough to show she is batshit crazy! But, when people have a “belief”, and they find someone with VERY similar beliefs, they tend to flock together…like minds. Do you know what she did to her Dog?!
Evidence is what matters. And an education to decipher the evidence is also VERY handy. Nancy has neither from what I have read. Again, why would anyone follow this woman if they weren’t already prone to accepting myth as fact?
Worried friend: I recently made the acquaintance of somone with similar leanings to those of your friend. In fact, your friend sounds like the exact same person, down to the fact that they both believe in the Planet X conspiracy, and they both believe that Earth is the focus of attention of various Galactic Powers.
He did me the honor of adding me to the mailing list of his email bulletins. In the most recent one his headline was “Chemtrails now a proven fact!”. He linked to one of the chemtrail videos that also appear on this site. I like to research the various theories that he subscribes to because I’m fascinated (for personal reasons) by the question of why people hold unassailable irrational beliefs. The research on chemtrails took me to this site. This site is a classic laboratory of the irrational. It provides extensive facts to show that there are rational explanations for the phenomena that are being described as “chemtrails”. And it has readers who refuse to consider those facts (http://www.skepdic.com/selectiv.html) and believe that anyone who argues against the conspiracy is a member of the conspiracy themselves, or is a dupe.
Faithinscience is right, once a person gets so deeply into an irrational world like that it’s rare for them to ever get out. That’s why it’s unusual for a person to get out of a cult, for example.
However, he’s *never* going to be proved wrong. When a prophecy fails to materialize he will just automatically rationalize a good reason for it and will come up with new predictions. If the “terrible day” doesn’t arrive on schedule then “Nancy” will tell him that the balance of the cosmic forces have shifted because there is new positive energy coming to Earth from yet another race of powerful beings who want to help, and thus the terrible day has thus been averted.
If you want to stay friends with him, tell him you repect his beliefs but you don’t want them forced down your throat every time you see him.
Alternatively, learn the Koran and tell him he’s wrong and quote the scriptures to him all the time.
Yeah I totally understand the science behind the thought here, and that he is so far in that there is no way out to see things from a different perspective unless he can see any truth from another angle..
I wonder if the psychology behind this stems from repeatedly being told something is a certain way only to see that isn’t the case during early life, therefore finding truth in lies and fact in myth as the person gets older? Or perhaps boredom with life causes some people to find excitement in the extraordinary? It’s often the case that defense mechanisms work against us in adult life so we see them and correct them…. I am very interested in this from a psychological standpoint!
I’m not sure really why I posted here in the first place, but now I’m thinking it’s got something to do with getting behind the conspiracy and looking at the beliefs from the human level, why do people get sucked into this? You guys are both spot on with what you said, once you write the script everything else is twisted to fit into it, no matter how out of this world the reality of the script may be!
Oh, and what did she do to her dog?
Part of the reason why I put up this site was so there could be a single source of debunking, where the myths that were raised could be listed and explained. A on-stop-shop for people who wanted an explanation of a particular photo, or examples or pre-1996 persistent contrails, or more esoteric things like an explanation of HR2977, or the dark lines.
Some people might see something odd, even scary, like the dark lines in front of a plane, and not be able to explain it, and so fall for the explanation that it’s something sinister. Having the actual explanation here might actually prevent someone from falling into that trap.
But some people are lost to reason. The “true believers” simply cannot be convinced they are wrong. Once they are in deep enough, there is little chance of them ever coming out. I do think however that skeptic sites like this one DO actually prevent people from falling into that mental black hole. People go on the internet to look for information, and if they are on the fence then that information can tip them one way or another.
Anyone who believes of the claims of Nancy Lieder is unfortunately not going to be amenable to reason. It’s almost like they are deeply religious. Reason is not part of their process.
Religion would be the obvious thing there. But I would think that if at some point they discovered there was nothing behind the religion they had been raised with, then they would become more skeptical about esoteric claims in general. Maybe not though, depending on, as faithinscience keeps pointing out, their education in science.
There has actually been quite a lot written about this, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory#Study_of_conspiracism
My friend is not, and never has been religious in a biblical/ church sense, but obviously this equates to religion as a strong belief in something that is taken on as truth and life is adjusted accordingly. You are correct in that reason isn’t part of their process, I see this in several parts of my friends personality, as I also see the fact that any tiny discrepance in a conversation HAS to be corrected, even to the extent of adding an ‘S’ onto the end of a film title that I pronounced incorrectly!!
[quote]I do think however that skeptic sites like this one DO actually prevent people from falling into that mental black hole[/quote]
This is very true also, as I was scouring the net to find facts to back up a debate with my friend I went to the zetatalk website and I have to say it is very convincing to someone with no scientific background, I can easily see how people become brainwashed if they choose to believe that source without looking for the other side of the coin! You do a good job here it seems, well done!
One thing that should raise red flags is if people are making money by promoting a particular belief. Particularly those who sell books, or promote products. Glenn Beck springs to mind as a mainstream example, but also Alex Jones, William Thomas and David Icke.
Zetatalk sells books and CDs. It’s doubtful that would sway a true believer, but it’s a warning sign for the wary. The reviews on Amazon are quite amusing.
It’s also a warning sign when the conspiracy sites start turning against your conspiracy.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message286088/pg4
Uncinus: That’s a great Wiki article. Bookmarked. Thanks. And yes, the good that sites such as yours definitely can do is to keep people from falling into the black hole in the first place. Once they fall past the event horizon though it’s too late.
As for education in science it doesn’t necessarily help. That’s because True Believerism is a psychological phenomenon that can completely bypass and completely dominate the intellect. The data reaching the intellect becomes restricted by filters (“confirmation bias” and the desperate need to resolve “cognitive dissonance” for starters).
Worried friend: Check this out: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/michael_shermer_the_pattern_behind_self_deception.html
You guys are not doing a good job, according to the radio dj I heard the other day, he said all this rain we are getting must be from all those chemtrails he is seeing. We started out the spring season with a drought and now it is monsoon floods go figure. I think mr dj better be careful one would not want to mislead the public, or is he? I think its all about resources and water is at the top of the list, get it while you can. Oh and worried friend, you should worry you are being lied to all the time. Mkultra, contra, area 51, smoking wont kill you, floride and aspertame wont harm you, weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Iran, Bin Laden interviewed by cnn but no one else can find him. Question everything, and keep an open mind.
Uncinus You missed Bill Cooper who exposed area 51 and predicted 911. He must of been just a nut, thats why they shot him in the back. Its not self deception its called subliminal conditioning, burn your tv. Hey Joe, there was a hospital in middle of the Canadian prairies that conducted all kinds of nasty experiments on alcoholics and anyone else they could get there hands on, Mkultra with the use of LSD was a big part of it along with shock treatment and water conditioning. I mention this to people I know and most of them never heard of it and one of those uniformed people live 200 km from there and never heard of it,that is how easy it is to fool the public. The town of Weyburn demoed it last year, out site out of mind.
Ruffneck, which sites do you believe? How do you know they are not part of the conspiracy?
How do you verify your beliefs?
Bill Cooper was shot in the back, that is verification enough for me.
Verification of what? Because some guy got killed in a shootout with police, you think some other things are verified? Chemtrails for example? You think the because a guy who thinks the IRS is a communist plot ended up dead, then it somehow follows that the government is spraying us with something that nobody can detect?
Well, I’m curious as to what the evidence is for this particular hospital. But let’s accept the general idea that the CIA has done some extremely bad things. How does this mean that they or people like them are now specifically spraying chemtrails?
The logic goes like this:
(1) The CIA has done some very bad things in the past.
(2) I assert that chemtrails exist. They are a very bad thing.
(3) Therefore the CIA is indeed spraying chemtrails.
If one were to assume that people have changed and mankind has become kind, that would be insane!!! Bill Cooper was no ordinary man, he warned us of what was coming and payed with his life, if he was just a nut or a kook why kill him. Uncinus after seeing the gong show in gulf of Mexico with the non coverage of the oil spill is just another cover up, no one knows how many animals are dieing, only the people that are killing them have that count. The evidence on the hospital, Google Weyburn Mental Hospital. What better place to put mad scientists than in the middle of nowhere, nobody would suspect the good doctors because we are taught to trust and do not question.
I though they killed him because he was shooting at cops, and shot one of them in the head?
Regardless, let’s assume he was entirely correct and assassinated for being so, and that everything else you say is correct.
Now, how does that in any way bolster the case for “chemtrails”, if there’s no actual evidence that they are anything other that contrails?
What’s the ACTUAL EVIDENCE to support this particular theory?
Uncinus, if you were a dj on the radio, then maybe ruffneck would believe you.
Did I say I believed him ?
I think that dj must of been have been listening to Dave Dickie from Edmonton Alberta Canada and William Thomas also an x pilot. I believe that Dave went to the Edmonton Airport and witnessed all. Its not that hard to believe because we small people are the last to know anything about what is planned for us. So I have an eye witness and Mr Thomas has an extensive portfolio. Who are you UNCINUS, what is your back ground?
I’m just some guy in his parent’s basement. What does it matter who I am? Facts are facts.
What do you believe ruffneck? Anything specific, or just vague badness?
Are we talking about this William Thomas?:
“Under development since 1995, the military’s goal is to install microprocessors incorporating gigaflops computer capability into “smart particles” the size of a single molecule.”
http://www.willthomasonline.net/willthomasonline/Nano_Chemtrails.html
No comment on the eyewitness, at the airport whistle blower is what you were asking for was it not? Whistle blower David Dickie witnessed the KC-135s leaving large white plumes that showed on radar at 18000 ft. Please explain ?
Explain what? I’ve heard people say they were abducted by aliens and had alien babies implanted in them. So explain that.
Anecdotal accounts are meaningless without supporting evidence. Do you have ANY evidence that KC-135s were leaving plumes at 18,000 feet, other than some guy saying so?
More from Williams. He’s basically a science-fiction writer:
According to a U.S. military flier called Military Progress, “The green light has been given” to disperse swarms of wirelessly-networked nano-bots into the troposphere by remotely-controlled UAV drones for “global warming mitigation.
Sorry, should be “from Thomas” of course.
what do you make of this Uncinus? I know it’s not chemtrail related, but you seem to source facts very well and I would love to see your take on this stuff?
http://poleshift.ning.com/profiles/blogs/july-20-here-we-go
it’s interesting noticing the simularities between chemtrails and the “pole shift”, “planet x” crowd.
Only a few people are noticing… check
The worst is yet to come… check
there is a conspiracy to cover this up…. check
The planet x belief seems to involve more spirituality however. It looks like they’ve snowballed many potential catostrophic(sp?) scenarios into one cohesive theory of planet changes and really enjoy drawing corolaries(sp?) between common events (power outages, etc.) and those potentially terrible, although non-existent, changes.
I find it amusing that they often cite observations that the sun and moon are positioned “differently” than they should be (an easy mistake to make since celestial bodies are constantly moving throughout the sky naturally) yet make no claims that the timing of sunrise/sunset have changed which would be instantly noticable with ANY change in the rotational axis or speed of the earth. Basically you can’t change the way the sun or moon track over the sky without changing the timing of those events.
It’s of the literary genre called “Fantasy and Science Fiction”. Literally that’s what it is. Only instead of a radio broadcast as with the “War of the Worlds” scare, Nancy is using the Internet.
Wow, she’s sure done a good job of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_collision.
She’s claiming something odd happened on July 20th. But the IRIS map she shows look pretty normal, just an average day. See:
http://www.iris.edu/dms/seismon.htm
This reminds me of chemtrails a little – you get a high-persistance day, and suddenly: “OMG – we are under attack here”.
http://www.skepdic.com/regressive.html
It also works over a longer term. People think there are a lot more earthquakes now. But I think the main reason for that is that the USGS has such a nice web site, it will email you earthquake alerts, and there’s a twitter feed, which gets re-tweeted. Previously people never heard about the minor and moderate earthquakes (<7.0)
http://twitter.com/#search?q=earthquake
And of course youtube adds an immediacy that was lacking ten years ago. See this recent 7.1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMAOgiWz1Ng
Of course those things happened just as frequently in the past, but hardly made the news.
With contrails, it’s slightly different, but the people who notice contrails now are really only the people who ALREADY BELIEVE in the chemtrail theory. Their beliefs are reinforced by the internet posting and youtube.
Wow, a sort of “earthquake police scanner”.
I swear I wasn’t hunting for info on Planet X. I stumbled over this by accident. I think that Someone, perhaps the beneficent beings of the Sirius Sector (http://www.paoweb.com/sn070610.htm) must have guided me in some way. Anyway, here it is. Selamat Ja! (see page mentioned above for translation).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DKCzbXRggE
this stuff is out of the ordinary!
There are a bizillion irrational belief systems in the world. The Planet X thing is just one of them.
The Sirians, however, are real. Selamat Ja!