Several planes look a little odd, or have attachments that look odd, and so some people feel they must be part of a decades long conspiracy to spray stuff into the atmosphere to alter the weather or reduce the population. That’s obviously nonsense, but what are these strange planes?
[Update: there are many other photos like the “barrel” interior below, I’ve collected a lot of them on Metabunk]
Here’s one making the rounds, scary looking barrels, and a sign on the wall that possibly says “Hazmat inside”
What is it? It’s a Boeing 777-200LR Worldliner, specifically it’s WD001, a plane that was used for flight testing. The original photo can be found here – note the “Hazmat” text was added later. The barrels contain water, which is pumped around to shift the center of gravity to test various flight characteristics.
Here’s a description of a similar setup from the 2002 book, “Inside Boeing, Building the 777”, page 76., describing tests done in 1994.
From Boeing’s blog:
Remember, we test at the extremes of the weight/CG envelope. This requires us to control the CG during ground and flight conditions. We can move weight, in the form of water, forward or aft with the use of the water ballast system. This system is comprised of 48 barrels, each capable of carrying 460 pounds, connected by tubing to a pump. A computerized system tracks fuel placement, fuel burn, people placement, ballast, flap setting, landing gear position and water barrel quantity. The information is processed to display the airplane’s current CG. We move water or specify fuel tank usage to configure the CG within the specified test requirements.
Why are there overhead luggage compartments? It’s a test plane, and for FAA certification they have to demonstrate that everything works. That includes stuff like the emergency oxygen system, and more minor things like the luggage compartments. It’s a requirement that they don’t pop open in flight – so that needs to be tested. They are also handy for stowing the engineers’ stuff.
Here’s some pictures from Boeing:
And a lot more photos can be found on Boeing’s site.
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This one gets a lot of use in the “chemtrail” forums:
Particularly because of the unusual collections of pipes sticking out in various places. There’s those two at the front, and then there is a group over the wing. Here’s some close ups
:
Very sinister looking tubes, but why are half of them facing the wrong way?
The plane is not for spraying the atmosphere, it’s for sampling the atmosphere. It’s a research aircraft, registration N701BN, operated by th e department of energy’s national labs. It’s pretty much one of a kind, so it’s hardly likely to be responsible for all the persistent contrails we see every day. The research is mostly on pollutants in the atmosphere, particularly from coal and oil burning power plants. But they also investigate the properties of clouds, which includes contrails.
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Here’s another photo you see in “chemtrail” videos, with the implied suggestion that it’s some kind of evil spraying device:
Actually it IS a spraying device, but quite innocuous. It’s on an NKC-135A (55-3128) with the refueling boom modified to spray water. This used by the air force to test icing of planes in flight.
Here’s the original photo:
See also: https://www.safaq.hq.af.mil/news/march04/raptor.html
Here’s some more details:
nkc-135-icing-attachmentpv1983_2688.pdf
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This plane is quite interesting:
It’s an E-6B “Tacamo”. This photo shows it dumping fuel (photo from tacamo.org). The E-6B is used by the United States Strategic Command as an airborne communication center. You can see the navy logo on the right wing. The E-6B is a modified version of the Boeing 707-320, and the fuel vents have been moved from the wing tips to between the fuselage and the engines in order to separate it from the communication equipment in the wing tips. This is what the wing-tip ESM/SATCOM pod looks like:
It looks like this odd assemblage is also creating some wingtip vortex contrails as well. The plane is pretty much all white, which is something you hear mentioned from time to time in “chemtrail” conspiracy theories.
Here’s another photo of the same plane, taken from a “chemtrail” YouTube video:
It shows the opening and drogue for the ELF trailing wire antenna. This is a very long wire antenna that is extended behind the plane for several hundred feet and used for communications with submarines. The “drogue” is just a cone-shaped weight. Here’s a close-up
http://www.flickr.com/photos/coldwararchaeology/5180470207/in/photostream
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This plane also looks at first glance like it might be dumping fuel (click image for full sized photo):
But the trails are actually coming from six smoke generators. It was part of a NASA test to study wake vortices, you can read about it here:
http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/B-747/HTML/ECN-4242.html
Six smoke generators were installed under the wings of the 747 to provide a visual image of the trailing vortices. The object of the experiments was to test different configurations and mechanical devices on the747 that could be used to break up or lessen the strength of the vortices. The results of the tests could lead to shorter spacing between landings and takeoffs, which, in turn, could alleviate air-traffic congestion.
Here’s another image of the same plane:
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This plane also occasionally get brought up in chemtrail conspiracy groups:
This is obviously not a contrail, it’s far too low and the trail is dropping too rapidly.
It’s a Boeing 747-100 “Supertanker”, modified by Evergreen Aviation, the only one of its kind. Specifically designed for fire fighthing. That’s it dumping water. Here’s some more recent photos.
Here’s a video of it in action, titled “B747 chemtrails”. It’s interesting reading the comments, as the first comment correctly identifies what it is, and then everyone else just ignores that and starts speculating.
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This one looks like a plane spraying stuff. But again it’s rather close to the ground. It’s actually taking off with the assistance of rockets. It’s not spraying, that’s just rocket exhaust.
This particular plane is a Boeing B-47B, rocket assisted take off, April 15, 1954. An no, that’s not a contrail in the sky behind it – it’s rip in the photo. Click on it for a large version from Wikipedia.
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This one is used for cloud seeding. It does not actually spray anything but uses silver iodine flares that are either ejected, or burn in place.
It’s operated by the Sandy land Underground Water Conservation district of Plains, Texas, as part of their SOAR program. They have some more photos of similar equipment on their site. They are all small aircraft not capable of getting to the above 30,000 feet where contrails normally form.
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This next photo is also of silver iodine flares, fixed underneath at large plane.
These also show up in “chemtrail” literature. They are sold by Weather Modification Inc, they make a range of weather modification equipment. About this one they say:
WMI racks for ejectable flares are mounted on the belly of the aircraft fuselage. Each rack holds 102 cartridges. When fired, the pyrotechnic is ignited and ejected from the aircraft. In this configuration, the WMI Lear 35A is equipped with four 102-count racks for ejectable glaciogenic pyrotechnics, a total of 408 flares.
Here’s another, this time from North American Weather Consultants, Inc.
About which they say:
This aircraft-mounted cloud seeding generator is fixed in place, and can burn a silver iodide solution during flight.
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This one is the “Mk.32 drogue-type underwing pod on the Armée de l’Air Boeing C-135FR Stratotanker” (“93-CC”- s/n 63-8472 of GRV 93). It’s an in-flight refueling system on a French Boeing C-135FR Stratotanker, photographed in Canada, Feb 2005.
See: http://www.baha.be/Webpages/Navigator/News/tanker_flight_240205.htm
The following is supposed to be a plane that has “chemtrail aerosol nozzles” over three of the engines.
In reality, this plane N707MQ is a Boeing 707-320B. The engines are Pratt & Whitney JT3D-3:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Omega-Tanker/Boeing-707-321B/1622886/M/
It should be perfectly obvious that the “nozzles” are facing the wrong way to be spraying anything. They are actually turbocompressors, which are driven by engine bleed air, and are used to pressurize the interior of the plane. There are only three, as that’s all you need. Here’s a discussion:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/8225/
Yes, I put it accidently other way around, ofc in high humidity contrails appear, according to Appleman’s chart.
“There is no way temperature or humidity changes that drastically in such small area.”
-“Yes, there sure is!”
You’re funny.
V12, you said: “There is no way temperature or humidity changes that drastically in such small area.”
Can you back that up at all? Because that seems totally at odds with all known meteorology.
Consider what you mean by “drastically”. The only needs to vary by a few degrees to cross the line on the Appleman chart. The humidity only needs vary for a few percentage points to make the difference between persistence and non-persistence. Like ice. At 32 degrees, it will stay solid. At 33 degrees it will melt.
Consider for example the humidity inside a cloud, and the humidity outside the cloud.
Consider also – how wide is a contrail? At 6-10 miles away, they look like thin lines, but really they can be several hundred feet wide. This means what looks like a sudden stop of the contrail can actually be it fading out over several hundred feet.
Also consider the effect of rising columns of air. What’s the difference between the inside of the column and the outside.
But most of all, consider why your opinion is the opposite of science. Why can’t you find a book to back that up? Why can’t you find any evidence?
How is a cloud visible and not visible a meter apart?
“Like I said, the requirement for forming contrails is low humidity and low temperature. At high humidity no contrails will form, so all the hypothesis about “persistent contrails”, that would form in highly saturated environment, is bullshit.”
Your statements alone make it visible that you don’t know anything about the atmosphere, so how can you come to conlusions about what is necessary for a contrail to form and for how long? Do you understand nucleation? Sublimation? Supersaturated air? you don’t or you wouldn’t be saying what you see is bullshit. Everytime that contrail is on, it is moisture condensing… look that up… The exhaust isn’t pure, but from a combustion engine. So there are particulates from aviation fuel and heat… The particulates are like cloud nuclei… It will attract water vapor. Then as the air passes on behind the engine it freezes….. Visible trail…. Now the air maybe at a lower percentage of humidity, so throught the wonders of sublimation, the ice crystals disappear, skipping the process of turning to water, and going straight to gas. Now what happens if the air is supersaturated? The engine goes through… Creates contrail… But since the air is super saturated, the visible contrail which is similar to cirrus clouds, remains… And doesn’t sublimate back into the atmosphere because the air is already supersaturated. The atmosphere has the jet stream, up drafts, down drafts, swirling vortexes, weather fronts, barametric pressures…. All these variables that make up a chaotic atmosphere. Our only visible evidence of it is the clouds. Contrails are usually a sign of a weather front moving in.
“The most common metalic element on Earth is iron, not aluminium. I know that aluminium has 2 percentage points higher content in Earth’s crust, but hey, Earth doesn’t consist of crust only.”
You are a bit confused…. Iron is indeed the most common metal in the universe and earth as a whole, but most of it is at the inner and outer core of the earth. The rest oxidizes at the crust. Crust is where we interact with digging and mining…. So at the crust, what is the most common element with what man will come in contact? And even if it was second common, it is semantics. All the same, it is commonly present. Trying to claim they’re spraying it is nonsense without any proof. The conference on geo-engineering was talking about sulfur to boot. Not believing in “chemtrails” does not mean I am for geo-engineering. I personally do not like the idea of sulfur being sprayed into the stratosphere. However, contrails have existed long before the word chemtrail was ever murmured. They believe Aluminum is linked to Alzheimer’s disease. However, this has nothing to do with contrails. That’s exactly what you are seeing in the video you keep posting. If they were spraying chemicals, metal particulates, or any gas… the pilots would all be inhaling it as the air that is used inside the aircraft are pulled into the plane and used throughout without filtration. So pilots would all be dying off, yet they are fine.
“Your explanation about “different humidity” in the plane’s path is totally ridiculous! Ever heard of something like dispersion?”
The term is diffusion…. Chemicals usually do disperse once sprayed…. However there are air pockets and layers of atmosphere just as layers of the ocean. Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean that the atmosphere is level and consistent. Again you need to learn about Nucleation…. Actually a child from elementary school would be naive about the atmosphere and to teach them they’re spraying without NO PROOF is outrageous. People need to learn to seek answers through facts and evidence. Not one’s observations and assumptions.
As in the observation that a airplane is too low. Obviously you can tell me what altitude the flight is flying at by observation alone. It was flying above clouds that commonly form above 7000m. That’s not too low. And -40 degrees occurs in Siberia and Antarctica at ground level and contrails form…. I already posted the photos and videos endlessly here.
“This simple video is a clear proof for chemtrails.” This is the problem with Chemtrailer’s mentality…. It proves nothing other than a trail present. It proves nothing. You can argue it doesn’t prove contrails either. The thing is, contrails are already studied and proven… It has occured throughout history of aviation. That video looks no different then all the other ones produced everyday around the world. …sigh…..
Sure, I should have clarified Earth’s crust, rather than including the core. But you know we are talking about the crust here because that’s what contributes to the windblown dust.Mineral dust is the largest contribution to natural particulates in the atmosphere, and mineral dust is 7-8% aluminum oxide. That means millions of tons of aluminum oxide (at least 5 million, according to Wikipedia) in the atmosphere, and hence aluminum in everything you eat and drink.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_dust
@Artyom
How do you know that pilots aren’t ill? Could you back it up with any pilots’ health report?
Supersaturation on a hot, summer day with clear blue sky? When often chemtrails are seen? Come on, I’m not buying it. By the way, there was nothing proven/studied before chemtrails were discovered. All this “contrail science” lol, was started after chemtrails in order to cover up the truth with pseudo-scientifical evidences.
When do you think chemtrails started? We can limit the science to books and papers from before that if you like.
Did you know there is an account of a persistent contrail from 1921?
https://contrailscience.com/pre-wwii-contrails/
Did you know that USA was using chemtrails in Vietnam?
In 1957 the UK government was testing biological weapon on London citizens, many people died after that, there are evidences, you can google it.
Another question: after the volcano erruption in july 2010, all flights were cancelled due to periolous dust in the air. Watch at this video, taped during the flight ban. How come? And, what a coincidence, the plane has no contrails but chemtrails, damn coincidence + “normal persistent contrails” right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVAjZQWvPD0
Next evidence debunking the “persistent contrails” lie: you can see planes movement on http://www.flightradar24.com
I’ve seen many times planes chemtrailing over my city and on flightradar there were NO planes above my city at the time. Many people witnessed the same.
I am so tired of the “on/off” videos.
V12- are those jets in the videos military or civilian?
What is the purpose of turning the trails on and off?
If the government’s have the technology to devise a dispersion system why make it visible? Should you not be more concerned with the trails that disappear?
What are you doing to protect yourself from the effects of the chemtrails?
You know it would be helpful if you could stick to your claims. You said:
“There is no way temperature or humidity changes that drastically in such small area.”
and
“Supersaturation on a hot, summer day with clear blue sky? When often chemtrails are seen? Come on, I’m not buying it.”
and
” Of course there is no such thing like “persistent contrails””
Now could you admit that you were wrong in all those three statements? Or present some evidence to back them up.
And regarding flightradar24, check their about page:
http://www.flightradar24.com/about.php
Uncinus- I may be mistaken but I beleive as it stands currently if you are 135 (non-airline) you must have ADS-B but if you are operating 121 it is not required for Europe. Soon.
The US is right around the corner.
Yet another great example of how a lack of knowledge can lead to a misconception.
Yes I vouch all three statements, all are true.
Captfitch which video? The one with on/off or the video with plane flying during flight ban? I have no idea because none of those vids were recorded by me, however Uncinus you are again avoiding answering my question – what was that plane on 18.04.2010?
re: 18.04.2010 video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVAjZQWvPD0
Probably a military or a scientific flight. I don’t know. But what would it prove? Are you seriously suggesting that they would keep flying chemtrail flights after all other flights were banned? That makes no sense at all. Firstly there’s only one or two, which would mean that 99% of the other flights you say are chemtrail are actually normal flights (so you’ve just “proved” that persistent contrails exist). Secondly, what would be the use of a single “chemtrail” flight? Why would they need to add an extra two tons of dust into the atmosphere when Eyjafjallajökull is pumping out several thousand tons a day?
The plane only seems suspicious to you because you don’t believe in persistent contrails. Have you looked at any of the historical evidence for persistent chemtrails? Like the 1921 report?
What do you make of this, from the encyclopedia Britannica?
https://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/
Sorry, I don’t recognize your qualifications to make such a statement as “truth”. And honestly, you are wrong on every count.
On a hot day? So you think at 7000m it is all nice and warm up there? Please don’t tell me you believe what you are saying. Why do clouds exist at all in your world? If you see a cloud on a warm summer day, it is proof that your thoughts are wrong. For the conditions of clouds to exist are the same for contrails. The engine just stimulates their formation with heat, pressure, and nuclei…. Buy what you want, but doesn’t mean you know the atmosphere. Any meteorologist will tell you about the atmosphere… They are an email, phone call, or a scheduled meeting away. Do contact one and discuss this theory with him or her if it is really a concern for you.
Personally, the Biotech industry making GMO foods is more of concern to me than a water vapor trail. The LBAM (light brown apple moth) spraying in California was direct application in California…. The people also claim health effects, but their case is more believable… 1) The spraying was real, documented pesticide control the government decided to do to control them from devastating forests. 2) Pesticides are known health risk and they have documents with proof of what agents were sprayed. None of it has anything to do with contrails… There are so many things that are worth worry and activism, but chemtrails is by far the worst theory I have ever heard.
As for doctor reports, I know pilots, a lot of them. I live on a former military base which is still run by the military to some degree. They refill aircraft and run a few cargo planes in conjunction with Gazprom. I knew pilots in the USA too. Captfitch, who replied to you, is also a pilot. He is one who will tell you exactly how the air is pulled in from outside the plane unfiltered. He’s breathing this air himself and so have a few other people. I also flown a lot when I was in the Air Force. And I also traveled the world a lot, using commercial airlines. My father was a business man and flew everyweek too! As much as some pilots, but as a passenger. And there hasn’t been a huge noticeable disease or cancer rate linked to contrails or a “chemtrail”. The one thing that interests me, in terms with health and aviation, is how all the radio and radar waves affects the health of pilots over long term? I mean if people are talking mobile phones…. I am curious about that.
“Firstly there’s only one or two, which would mean that 99% of the other flights you say are chemtrail are actually normal flights (so you’ve just “proved” that persistent contrails exist).” No I didn’t prove anything, what you said is illogical, stop inputing something that I didn’t say. You didn’t say anything about chemtrailing in Vietnam during war. Also how about Space preservation act mentioning chemtrails? It also “doesn’t exist” or “isn’t backed up by scientific evidence” for you?
“Why would they need to add an extra two tons of dust into the atmosphere when Eyjafjallajökull is pumping out several thousand tons a day?”
You can find dust perhaps in your vacuum cleaner. Since flights were banned during that period, it’s clear, that the planes flying around the city were military planes. Secondly, the guy speaking in this video says, that the planes are flying around the city, doing u-turns etc. What would be the point of those planes flying around the city? They can blatantly fly over cities and spray, because people won’t pay attention to it, and if they do, they will be considering it as “persistent contrails”, because they are dumbed by sites like this “contrail science” thingie.
“Have you looked at any of the historical evidence for persistent chemtrails?”
Yes I’ve already told you, 1957 London chemtrails spraying on citizens.
Artyom- the radio waves don’t concern me very much. Our transmiters sit well behind and below us. Plus our low power on-board radar sits in front of us and points away from us. The one thing that does concern me is the larger doses of radiation I get at altitude. We fly higher than most commercial aircraft (41000-45000 ft) and supposedly we get a years worth of radiation in one flight.
V12- do you know who was allowed to fly during the volcanic activity? I do…
How about who was allowed to fly immediately after 9-11? I do…
How do alert/MOA/restricted areas work?
Please address the ealier questions I had for you this morning as well.
“Common aircraft models that are NOT visible on the map (no ADS-B):
ATR-42
ATR-72
Boeing 707
Boeing 717
Boeing 727
Boeing 737-200
Boeing 747-100
Boeing 747SP
All CASA models
All Bombardier Dash models
All Bombardier CRJ models
Dornier 328
All Embraer models
Jetstream 32
Fokker 50
McDonnell Douglas DC-9
McDonnell Douglas MD-8x
McDonnell Douglas MD-9x
Saab 340
Saab 2000
“Air Force One”
Most military airplanes ”
Well, the most common planes ARE visible on the radar. The Boeings on this list are rarely used and mostly phased out, didn’t bother to check the rest, but interesting thing is that “most military airplanes” aren’t visible. That would prove my point, you are wrong once again.
I’m discussing alone with a few people here so I could’ve missed your questions.
V12- are those jets in the videos military or civilian?
What is the purpose of turning the trails on and off?
I don’t know, the purpose isn’t as important as the fact itself.
If the government’s have the technology to devise a dispersion system why make it visible? Should you not be more concerned with the trails that disappear?
Who said that government has this technology?
What are you doing to protect yourself from the effects of the chemtrails?
Nothing, because there’s nothing you can do. I don’t believe in orgonites etc., as well as I don’t believe in UFO, reptilians and other ridiculous theories.
I have a question to all of you: are you also supporting theory, that 9/11 was a terrorist attack?
One more thing, captfitch you seem to be the most credible person here, since you are/were a pilot. However you haven’t flied every single plane on this planet to say with 100% assurance that chemtrails don’t exist, nor you don’t live in Europe to know who was flying during the flight ban in Poland for instance. What’s your opinion about chemtrails/persistent contrails?
Radiation from the sun?… And the pilot window’s don’t have a UV filtration coating? And the plane itself isn’t dense enough to prevent people within from receiving the radiation? That would be a concern getting a years worth of radiation.
“What is the purpose of turning the trails on and off?”
I love that one the most. It’s how I was first introduced to the chemmies. Although the answer is EXTREMELY simple (and a lot more believable than switching “the spray” on and off or “clogged nozzles”), I have yet to meet a chemmie who understands/accepts the explanations when it’s explained. If the chemmies are unable to understand /accept the explanations, and they are also unable to provide the tiniest shred of evidence to support their beliefs…I guess we will never see eye to eye.
You are correct- I haven’t flown anywhere near even a fraction of all the planes out there. In fact I have only flown a few types of jets. I have, however, made my career in aviation and my education is Aviation Science with an emphasis on aviation weather and crew resource managment.
I deal daily with what this entire web site is about. Several times I have flown through other trails and on one occasion even flown through my own.
All that being said I am very open to the idea of chemtrails. I can certainly see that it could be possible for a company or organization to dispense material from a constellation of aircraft encircling the globe for any number of reasons.
Up to now, however, I have NEVER seen any evidence of this in action and anything I have seen that may look strange is easily explained with some research. The key to this whole thing is education. I know that not everyone here on either side has taken the time to complete the education required to operate in the upper troposhere and I don’t expect them to but I do have a problem when those who are uniformed come here and try to argue without all the facts.
I’m all for some civil discussion.
No artyom- the plane or windows aren’t nearly enough to stop the radiation from the sun or other sources. I don’t think it’s UV that makes it through the skin and windows. I think it’s worse. As an example, pilots historically father far more female children than male because the radiation kills the chromosone responsible for male offspring. Additionally we tend to have more skin cancers. Aside from those things I don’t think there’s much that points to an elevated risk of developing other cancers.
Regarding the volcanic flight bans-
Yes, the military were flying during that time. What you don’t know (most people don’t) is that many, many civilian research craft were allowed to fly as well as many manufacturers who were trying to determine how very limited exposure to different amounts of volcanic dust effected thier componants. I know that GE, Pratt and several others had test beds up to see what was happening up there. But why should you know that? I don’t blame you for lack of knowledge.
I think 9-11 has some form of cover up(maybe something bad or maybe they hide a failure). I personally wasn’t satisfied with the investigation. They quickly packed up the debris and shipped most to China without finding all the things possible. There were huge inconsistencies with the so called terrorist themselves. As some were checking in at different airports. The passport that miraculously survived the impact, the fire, and was found in all of that debris. The fact the Pentagon is one of the most secure buildings in the USA with endless surveillance cameras and they release a few frames of video from one camera angle. Flight 93 seemed a bit scarce on debris from crash sites, even personally seen real ones. Maybe they just didn’t document fully? The building 7 story is fishy… but maybe explanable.. The two towers collapsing… also strange as it was the 1st time I’ve seen it. However, people are making assumptions on the event. They are claiming bombs and so forth. Some firefighters say they heard it. However, the proof is in the pudding. I am 100% for another investigation that has people interested in an unbiased investigation. I think it is worth it as US government uses this as excuse for “War on Terror”.
I don’t buy the official story, but I also don’t subscribe to theorizing without evidence that one can show as proof. I saw the odd sliced steel girders. Still, not enough to say for certain. The building 7 and so on. Obama’s excuse “we need to move on” is nonsense when it is the reason of 2 wars and expanding to 3 with Pakistan. Missile defense in Europe and domestic freedoms being lost under Patriot Act. So there is nothing wrong with this. It is politics. Of course it will be heated debate like for some people with chemtrail theory.
captfitch is a pilot, Uncinus has a pilot license flying cessna type aircraft if I remember correctly, forgive me if I am wrong(remember Uncinus said he flies). Factsmatter is also learning about piloting(and has piloted, going off memory isn’t alwasy good=P). I am not a pilot, but worked as a seargeant in the Air Force when I was young. )) And I saw contrails being created and also remember them since I was a child. The only thing that has changed is the amount of air traffic making the skies become littered with contrails that actually do persist on days the atmosphere is supersaturated… which makes a cloud cover. Usually this means weather is changing anyways so the planes just ruin the sky a hours or a day before a weather front arrives. That’s why many people think that “chemtrails” are altering the weather. It is really due to the atmosphere change.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jgensvxLQI&feature=related
Uncinus asked me for evidence of aluminium in sprays, so there you are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIy3JKw3Yck&feature=related
‘4:27 min. – captfitch I know that you’ve already said on this website in previous post, that there is no such thing like “normal trail pattern”, however doesn’t this u-turn made by 2 planes flying together a bit suspicious?
Sorry for version with polish subtitles, but it’s still with english lector. The film’s title is “Don’t talk about the weather”, you can find exactly the same film in english version on youtube.
Artyom I like your attitude on 9/11 and I agree with most of your statements.
I also cannot tell 100% that chemtrails exist, it’s all assumptions. It’s a lot of suspicious facts that make me tend to support this theory. I appreciate the thorough knowledge you people here have, however some questions still haven’t been answered and some facts cannot be denied.
V12, your entire argument is based on the assumption that there is no such thing as persistent contrails. So really you need to defend that assumption first.
What do you make of all the science and weather books for the last 90 years that say that there ARE persistent contrails? Books that not only describe them, but explain in detail how they work, and why they are inevitable. Why are YOU right, and ALL OF SCIENCE AND RECORDED HISTORY wrong?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5v1c0mxC3s
Evidences, that I am said to lack.
Which bit of the video shows that contrails can’t persist and spread?
If we even assume, that persistent contrails exist, why aren’t there everyday above my city trails? On days without chemtrailing I can see very rarely any jet in the sky and it ALWAYS has a short, disappearing contrail. On days when I see those persistent, expanding trails, I see many planes, crossing one another’s paths, creating X’s and grid patterns, flying parallel? It’s no coincidence.
And what do you make of this 1955 news story describing persistent trails that stay all day?
No it’s no coincidence. It’s because of the weather. Some days the weather at some cruise altitudes is suitable for contrail formations, and some days it is not.
Like, you don’t see cirrus clouds every day, do you? Nor does it rain every day. It’s the weather.
http://www.realityzone.com/whatspray.html
Brand New Documentary being released 10/22/2010 Mr.Unicus…..my hope is you wil get a copy watch and review for all of us to see your veiw on what “they”are really spraying us with..regardless of “persistant contrails” or “chemtrails” we as a People have been lied too…
p.s. i really love this site!
Seems credible, what do you make of part 11 of the film that I linked? It proves chemtrails existence as much as your article from newspaper.
Quid pro quo V12 – you tell me what you think of all the historical scientific accounts of persistent contrails, and I’ll watch part 11 and tell you what I think.
“No it’s no coincidence. It’s because of the weather. Some days the weather at some cruise altitudes is suitable for contrail formations, and some days it is not.
Like, you don’t see cirrus clouds every day, do you? Nor does it rain every day. It’s the weather?”
Uncinus you either missed the point or you are not answering the question on purpose. I was asking about the great difference in air traffic when persistent trails occur.
AZ Patriot such films should be non-profit, like Zeitgeist for instance, therefore should be distributed for free.
There is no difference in air traffic on contrail days. The planes are just a LOT easier to see on contrail days, because they leave huge white trails behind them. When a plane is not leaving a trail, it’s very hard to spot at 35,000 feet. Corporate jets are especially hard to see, as they are both smaller, and they fly higher (40-45,000 feet).
Look at some planes leaving contrails, the plane in front of them looks like a tiny speck to the naked eye. Very hard to spot without the contrail.
But back to the root issue – if there is no such thing as persistent contrails, then why are there so many descriptions of them in science books for the last 90 years?
The planes with persistent trails are easily visible, their shape is very clear and you can tell that they are on relatively low altitude, where humidity required for contrail forming must be very high, tho the following days were NOT rainy at all.
So then someone should be able to take photos of them, identify them, and calculate the altitude? Thus easily proving they are spraying.
So why did nobody do that?
No, really the traffic is the same on contrail days. Just much more apparent.
And about the history of persistent contrails? How do you explain that?
Like I said, that article seemed credible and it is a sort of evidence. You didn’t say what you think of chemtrails evidence in part 11 of the film. Note that both your article and the chemtrail issue in the video are referring to past, it isn’t about contemporary times.
Sorry, I though you were referring to AZ’s film link as being credible.
How is 1955 not the past? The article is talking about persistent contrails, hence either they have been faked for 55 years (or 90 really, if you go back to the earliest article), or they exist. You claim they don’t exist, and that’s what you base your argument.
Part 11. Seems to show two things – some spider webs, and the British chemical and biological weapon dispersion tests from the 50s. It shows nothing of persistent spreading contrails.
I think you are trying to make the point that because the government at one point in history sprayed something secretly out of a plane, then they might be doing it now. Well, that’s quite true. They might be spraying us right now, this very minute.
But there’s no evidence that they ACTUALLY ARE.
I will continue discussing tommorow, it’s 2 am in my time zone, I’m going to sleep.
Oh last thing, there’s also a book on chemtrails, unfortunately in German. Cu tommorow.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chemtrails-Verschw%C3%B6rung-Himmel-Wettermanipulation-%C3%96ffentlichkeit/dp/3853652131
There’s one in english as well:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chemtrails-Confirmed-W-Thomas/dp/1893157105
But the books simply repeat the same claims that are on the internet – that contrails can’t persist. All actual science books, both old and current, say that contrails both CAN and DO persist, and spread out. So the “chemtrail” books are based on a misunderstanding.
Search Google Scholar for “persistent contrails”, and you get 381 results:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22persistent+contrails%22
You know, if you just look at the raw science of the atmosphere and engine exhaust, then it’s physically impossible for contrails NOT to persist and spread, if the conditions are right for it. All it takes is about -40 degrees or colder, and about 70% or higher relative humidity.
Those youtube videos are very deceptive because they will use patents, prior government tests, and so forth as evidence…. One of the videos shows the chart with an aircraft spraying, rockets firing, and so forth. The chart shows methods of weather modification, but I don’t know who produced the chart. I think they show a bigger aircraft for geo-engineering ideas of spraying sulfur. As for the statement they say is contradictory about barium and aluminum being benign in the environment. He wasn’t lying, they exist everywhere in the environment. Even the KSLA news story is bogus. Watch the real one on any and you will see it is in parts per billion not million, which means it is way below the safety level. No need to worry about barium on that one. Most of the tests, aren’t handed over for scrutiny. Please do show tests.
The science I do know from biology and environmental science, is taking samples. I know 100% sure that taking a from ground water and even hepa filters at ground level won’t tell you what’s coming out the back end of an airplane at their altitude. It never will. NEVER!!!! Just understand that as a fact no matter what. Kent State University did the best test possible and ran aviation fuel through a miniature jet engine in a controlled environment. It came back with identicle properties as aviation fuel, like Kerosene.
As for the spiderwebs being linked to a government study as using webs as a delivery agent for bioweapons. It is indeed interesting. Then showing webs strung out and fluttering in the air.. That’s great and all, but AGAIN it is a huge assumption to think it came from spraying. As air currents at altitude are much faster. What makes you think something like a spiderweb would travel directly beneath to the ground. That is a lost thought process. Something that’s lighter than those soft insulation feather’s that float about in the air after a bird frightened flies away. Then you add air currents. The jet stream alone is like:
“The wind speeds vary according to the temperature gradient, exceeding 92 kilometres per hour (50 kn), although speeds of over 398 kilometres per hour (215 kn) have been measured”
How would a spider web be effective dropped at altitude contrails form? It wouldn’t be. And chemicals are sprayed by Wildlife Services, Agriculture, Health officials, and the military. The military was used in spraying Corexit. Wildlife sprayed pests like the Light Brown Apple Moth.
Back to the spider webs real quick…. It can come to a simple explanation what you saw in the video. The term is Ballooning. As in this (click me) The other video is a small web created by a grass dwelling spider. I am sure everyone in North America sees them in the morning when they come out and they look like dome webs or a funnel web from a spiders that live in the lawns. There are quite a lot of insects that balloon. Imagine the chemtrail community using these photos. It is explained already in the article, but just imagine used out of context. Mystery webs appear from little spiders Scroll down to see more cool stuff. )))
Those documentaries take things and do their best to correlate them into a single context. If there is concentrations above safety levels found, it is a concern to anyone, even us. As it is pollution. However, the evidence really is lacking.
As Uncinus is showing you, the contrails have been studied and written about throughout time. Weather modification is documented and in plane view….. It is not a secret and has nothing to do with Contrails. Government sprays tons of things, again it has NOTHING to do with contrails. They spray, yes, agent orange, corexit, biological agents, and so forth…These have been documented and looks NOTHING like a contrail and is NOT a contrail. These things coexist as two seperate things… chemtrail believers lump them all together.
It may seem to be lacking clarity because we are talking about something in the sky out of reach. IT isn’t cheap to do high quality tests of elements, especially if you need to charter a specialized aircraft that samples the atmosphere. They don’t want to do it for contrails because they already done so and know what it is. Even if they do it, it has proven to not satisfy anyone. They’d just say that it wasn’t a real chemtrail. They may admit that contrails can last, but that one was not dirty looking and I know these things don’t look right…. Well, how does one know what a chemical, aerosol, or anything looks like when it is sprayed out the back of an aircraft. I know what Corexit looks like. I saw a video of a fighter jet spraying chemical agent over Iraq(I think it was when Saddam used them in the 80’s). I remember Agent Orange being sprayed. I remember weather modification with silver iodide flares lit giving off particulates. I also seen fuel dumping. None of it looks like CONTRAILS. Contrails are simply explained, but made difficult.
Really watch this man talk about them. He is a real meteorologist. Meteorologist discusses Contrails (Part I) and (Part II)
It is a real, straight forward interview dealing with contrails and the chemtrail theory. How contrails are formed.
And guess what…. This is pretty much the same thing as a contrail… Cooling Tower And they are creating cumulous clouds.
“Convection Currents in the Field
Cumulus clouds sometimes occur over the cooling towers of power stations or downwind of them. How do they form? Clue: Large volumes of buoyant moist air rise from the cooling towers of power stations. Cumulus clouds may be seen above forest fires, factory chimneys and other sources of hot air (see picture on the right). Insects are lifted and birds and gliders can soar in the rising air beneath cumulus clouds. How fast does the air rise? Answer: About 1 m/s under a fair-weather cumulus, maybe 4 or 5 m/s under a cumulus congestus cloud. Air can rise at 10 m/s or more beneath and inside vigorous cumulonimbus clouds. What does it feel like to ascend at (a) 1 m/s (b) 10 m/s? Relate to the speed a lift ascends. To work out the speed, divide the height the lift rises when it goes from one floor to another by the time taken to travel that height. Question: Is it safe for birds, gliders or, indeed, any other aircraft to be caught in the upcurrents of cumulonimbus clouds?” Referenced from this website
@V12
“nor you don’t live in Europe to know who was flying during the flight ban in Poland for instance.”
I do, and no one sprayed any chemtrails. Also, who sprayed chemtrails over Poland during Cold War? Masons and Cyclists? Really, the whole idea of persisent contrail not existing before 1990’s is an order of magnitude more moronic when viewed from here.
Today I saw 2 planes over my house going in opposite direction. I could check them on flightradar24.com, both were commercial airlines at altitude ~12 000 meters, both had short contrails. The planes were barely visible at those altitudes.
Later I saw a plane leaving persistent trail. Of course I couldn’t see that plane on flightradar24 (yes I know that some planes aren’t visible on that site, however mostly military planes aren’t) and it was at much lower altitude, because it was much more visible. I could also tell that it was a coincidence, but it’s suspicious.
Another thing is that its trail was expanding so bad, that after 20 minutes its trail created such a gigantic cloud, that it covered almost the whole sky over my house. Normal cirrus clouds that were also present today were not expanding at all! Another coincidence, too many coincidences.
By the way, is it normal for commercial planes flying this way, one plane behind another one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzHrZcDdHus
P.S. I see that persistent contrails theory is backed up by some scientific evidences, it’s much more credible for me than I was thinking before. Still I think that contrails don’t rule out possible existence of chemtrails.
Also this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IZUfszhK7o&feature=related
I’m just asking, this seems a bit odd for commercial planes to fly neck by neck so close. Captfitch?
Nice vids. As for the second one- two jets seperated by 2000 feet vertically. One plane looks like an aircraft with two engines under the wings and the other has both of its engines on the back of the fusalage. You can tell by the splay of the trails. Underwing jets have trails that spread apart a little because of the influence of the wings. The fusalage engines are not affected that much.
This is a good one because typically the air is quite different at two different altitudes and you normally wouldn’t see this. The only other explanation I could see is if these were military but they should be closer together than that horizontally (sp?). Plus they should be the same type unless this is a refueling mission. I’m sorry- I haven’t given a great answer. I’d say it’s safe to say they were just two planes 2000 feet apart vertically.
And I know you’ve read what I’ve said before but any video that has a heading like “non-commercial flight paths” or “not normal traffic patterns” is automatically suspect.
If I don’t convince you of anything else while you’re here I want to convince you that THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS AS NORMAL TRAFFIC PATTERNS!!!!!
More and more we are using direct routes.
And if “patterns” is refering to maneuvers I wan’t to reiterate (sp?) that as a pilot I can ask for and will usually recieve permission to make whatever patterns or maneuvers I want. I don’t know the link but there’s a screen shot out there of a GV (Gulfstream 5) crew who used the entire country to spell out GV when viewed on flightaware. Uncinus can probably find that.
That second video is pretty cool. I like how they line up with the sun and you see the dark “edge” shadows in front of them.
You can see that they are slightly different. Just going by the width of the trails I’d say the one lower in the shot is at a higher altitude. But they could also be different types of plane.
If this zoomed in shot it seems like the plane lower in shot does have different contrails. And it’s smaller and/or higher.
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/3244359/
V12-
As you might begin to recognize this topic is not simple. I think generally there are two types of people who exist on this site. Those who have an extensive understanding of aviation and science relating to weather and those who have a theory on what those white trails are and have reinforced that theory with the extensive “evidence” on the web. I have yet to see any real converts from the chemtrail camp to the science camp. That doesn’t mean they don’t exist but none of them have stuck around to admit it. I guess if one is commited enouph to post a few times and are so entrenched that conversion is difficult to impossible. It is my hope that YOU will come over to our side. I am willing to share all the knowlege I have and answer any questions as long as you keep an open mind.
There’s a variety of people. Some of the people who actually engage in discussion, like CTYForg, actually DO eventually admit a few points to the science side of the argument (like, persistent contrails are normal). But they still are greatly influenced by their “PTB is evil” position. Their fallback position is “well, they MUST be doing SOMETHING bad”, which is fair enough. All I’m arguing is that they are not doing “chemtrails” – or at least there’s zero real evidence that they are.
Valid.
I have hope for V12.
V12, seems to be an alright guy. ) And V12, I do sit on both sides of the discussion. I have registered on Prisonplanet. Doesn’t mean I agree with them. I usually comment on news articles about war, environment, and other government injustice. I gave up on the chemtrail articles, but I do link them here. I won’t post on them anymore because 95% will just throw insults and accuse of being a shill. However, I do try to find the evidence being used by the chemtrail community and none of it has satisfied me to even doubt for a second that a contrail isn’t a contrail.
As for governments, I know they do awful things. Watch some John Pilger documentaries. He’ll show you Western injustices that usually go unmentioned. All governments have capable for doing great harm. Testing chemicals or bioagents on the people. The idea is, in their eyes, to see how it would spread and therefore be prepared for an attack… They don’t realize though they just attacked their own people themselves while making preparedness. Other things, was nuclear experimentation. However there were also stupid entrepeneurs who came up with things like Nuclear Bubble Gum. These people traveling with their sales pitch pretty much died off…. literally….
I know it is difficult to find the scientific side via videos because places like Youtube will just show ground videos of contrails every time you type in Weather Modification. However, you’ll find one or two scattered in with real weather modification aircraft. They have those silver iodide flares on the wings and drop flares on the belly of the aircraft. Those are the nuclei used to influence the clouds and make them percipitate. Here in Russia, we all know very well Weather Modification. In Moscow, they often anounce when they do it. They also do it May 9th for V-day parade. And sometimes it rains anyways… So it isn’t completely effective. However, it does work. There were few times when they did it, it cleared a cloudy day into a sunny day.
There are also uses of rockets to seed clouds. They do basically the same thing as the aircraft, just imagine the rocket launches the silver iodide up to altitude… poof it disperses the particulates into the clouds and nucleation begins…. The scientists have long observed that the clouds they do this to will percipitate while the untouched ones wouldn’t.
Yes, as for some appearing higher and having short contrails and lower altitude having long is completely explainable… Do you know the atmosphere gets warmer again as you increase altitude? Here is a graph and explanation…. You’ll get the point that there are soooooooooo many variables making up our atmosphere. It is even open to space, the kosmos… ))) So things that influence it are many! Check this website out: Atmosphere Layers
Note:”For water as well, the transport generally ends at the tropopause, and nearly all clouds that result in precipitation or dissolve, exist in the troposphere. An exception to that are stratospheric ice clouds. We will learn more about them in the next chapters.”
Cirrus Clouds form at 7000m or higher.. but then there is an odd cloud even higher than them. There is a cloud that forms in the Stratosphere…. The Nacreous Clouds Check them out! They are really cool. )))
Contrails are more related to Cirrus. While searching this, I found a man who directly takes on both chemtrails and contrails addressing them in a scientific way. And he gives names to programs that actually study contrails.
http://www.borderlands.com/contrails/contrail.htm
Of course, chemicals are sprayed…. All the time. LBAM, Corexit, Agent Orange, and many many more… the list goes on and on… None of them relate to contrails at all. If they were trying to kill the people: **********Hypothetical situation*********, you would be walking long… hmmm hhmm hmmm off to the store I go… suddenly a plane whizzes by over your head at very very low altitude…. Suddenly you feel a chemical mist… Then everyone starts convulsing …. and people die.. That would be a REAL chemical attack. Known as chemical warfare. They can use it in artillery too. Or just spray it downwind. Such a thing would be CRIMINAL and against International law and most treaties banning the use of chemical weapons. Polluting on purpose is even more far fetched because the toxicity effects all people and generations including the people who would be theoretically adding pollutants on purpose, which is even more far fetched in reality considering logistical scale.
There are some treaties against White Phosphorous, but US still uses it in all theaters of War. So does Israel.
I think you get the idea between realities and theories..
I’m one of them.
My mate showed me a video (I think it was that don’t talk about the weather one) and it convinced me.
I began looking into it, and slowly the mistruths that it presented became clearer and clearer. I remember one of the main points that began my disbelief in chemtrails were the grids. I’d seen this grids myself, and believed that a single plane had made them. But then I began to wonder why there was no video evidence of a plane laying a grid. I’d looked round youtube for such a video but there wasn’t one. Surely, if a single plane was laying these grids then someone would’ve captured a video of it.
It was then that it suddenly became clear to me that it wasn’t one plane. It was a number of planes flying the same route with the wind moving the trails before each plane passed.
And then once taking the wind into account other parts of the video became laughable. I can still remember it’s whole “X marks the spot thing” and the comment about how the Xs could be being used to mark something for satellites. That suddenly makes no sense when you consider that the X is not gonna be stationary at all because of the wind. Whereas satellites are, so there’s no need for a bloomin’ X in the first place.
At that point I realised I had no clue about the sky at all and that making these bizzarre assumptions about something I knew nothing about was a stupid idea. Better to learn about it. And so I found this place.
Uncinus, my comment didn’t appear here… Western computer companies are like racist towards Russians. Even Starcraft II, they only give Russia a copy of the game that you have to pay a monthly service to access online gameplay. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is gets online access for free.
I guess the spam filter just hates me)
I have to admit, that I’m pretty convinced right now.
I was wondering if it’s possible for contrails to persists and not disappear, when I read the fact, that air can be supersaturated, the same as a liquid solution can be. However, I was pretty sceptical about any infosites about persistent contrails, since I was somehow convinced, that they were run by people, who want to discredit chemtrails and spread disinformation. Also there were many suspicious facts, that didn’t let me believe in persistent contrails. After reading your arguements now I seem to be somewhat enlightened. I was wrong … thank you guys! Thank god I’m no hard believer, so I can realize that I could’ve been wrong and admit it 🙂
By the way, since there are many people here who are fammiliar with avionics, what do you think of Tu-154 disaster in Smolensk, where polish president died?
P.S. these persistent CONtrails, are really messing up the blue sky anyway 😐
“P.S. these persistent CONtrails, are really messing up the blue sky anyway :|”
I happen to think they are quite beautiful.
Artyom – see http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/news/11737-monthly-fee-for-starcraft-2-in-russia-confirmed
1/ Blizzard are not “Western computer companies” – they are ONE computer company
2/ Russian customers are not het only ones being offered the CHOICE of a monthly subscription or a one-off fee for unlimited access – if you choose the montly fee option the initial purchase price is considerably cheaper than if you pay full price….which you still have hte option of doing if you wish.
3/ Personally I have gone off “one-payment” games – what is to keep them providing the game after the initial rush of income has passed? I much prefer subscription games now, because I feel that the publishers have more incentive to keep the game going.
4/ Russians are not a different “race” from “the west” – so it cant’ be racism. It can be nationalism, or Russo-phobia…but it isn’t race.
5/ You are sounding a bit like you think there’s a conspiracy……;)
Oh and I think most contrails are butt ugly- they represent pollution pumped into the atmoshere at heights where it can possibly do a lot more damage than at sea level. (no that’s nothing to do with chemtrail fantasies – that’s just the products of combustion)
A single, tight one across the sky can be quite pretty…on a good day…..but you don’t get that much. The massed and/or spread out ones are just yuck!
Mike:
Perhaps not so ugly when atmospheric water has diluted them 10,000 to 1. EH?
For that is what you see when you see a dense billowing trail.
The “Contrails to Cirrus” link on the left gives you the numbers.
“they represent pollution pumped into the atmoshere at heights where it can possibly do a lot more damage than at sea level. ”
They may “represent” the pollution, but they produce no more and no less actual pollution than the same type of plane when it’s not leaving a trail. And there is FAR more pollution going on at sea level than all the planes in the sky through all of time could produce. It’s disgusting how badly we pollute our own environment in an infinite number of ways. What damage do you believe contrails are doing up there that all the other crap we put into our air hasn’t already accomplished?
Jazz – how they look is how they look – whther you like a look is it is a matter of taste – aesthetics, not mathematics.
Factsmatter – yep that is all completely true – hence I said “represent”, not “are the”. doesn’t make them any better or worse than what they are tho.
Glad you agree with me that pollution is generally a bad thing ™.
I should note that my post is not actually related to chemtrail nuttyness 🙂
“Glad you agree with me that pollution is generally a bad thing ™.”
How could anyone NOT agree with that? It’s amazing how much is overlooked down here to focus on what’s going on up there..not by you or I, but by so many others. I was just reiterating the fact that what the trails look like, isn’t what people should focus on. Pollution is all around us at all times… from billions of sources.
V12, I can tell you with 100% certainty that the conspiracy behind it is completely false. The video from the mobile phone shows the plane on fire, the security detail to the president’s pistol rounds maybe cooking off in the fire…. No one is yelling. Security personnel are already running checking for survivors. What happened was the same video was edited. They added voices about catching and shooting survives. They even added the rumor that the guy who filmed the scene was killed with a knife. All these things are false. There was no problem with sounds on the original video. No one said anything. There was a lot of fog which burns off as the day begins. If you live here, you’ll see a lot of fog in the morning as the moist peat bog, marsh lands, forests… usually give off a lot of moisture and in the morning it cools more. I personally think it was pilot error. There was contact with trees before the runway and then from there, was a slight increase in ground elevation. So even correcting by trying to gain lift would still not be enough. There was an attempt to divert the aircraft and there were voices of one of the delegates in the cockpit. Really a shame… Those Tupolev aircraft were great planes, but they are reaching the end of their service life. Although, I heard that this particular plane had a lot of renovation work to it. From the released information from the join investigation…. I think something happened in the cockpit that would constitute as negligence on a few parties. There also maybe some fault with air traffic control…
Regardless, I personally thought it was a horrible tragedy that took place on a former tragedy of the Polish people. I feel bad that the President’s brother is beginning recriminations, however… Such is the life in politics I guess.
As for pollution….. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. I definitely understand that a turbofan engine gives off exhaust and such, but isn’t it more efficient than other engines and therefore cleaner? I would be more angry at those semi-trailer *грузовик* with those billowing trails of black smoke around them, then a turbofan engine.
Now onto topic – turbine engines tend to polute less than internal combustion, AFAIK – the combustion is continuous, so there is much less heating up & cooling down – the fuel nozzles are able to achive very good spray patterns (I used to overhaul fuel nozzles!) and air can be mixed in optimum proportions.
Over the last 20 or 30 years ther have been considerable efforts to increase efficiency and lower exhaust emissions on aircraft. Some of this is engine technology – some is aerodynamics and aircraft weight – eg the 777 is much lighter due to use of carbon fibre…so it burns less fuel than it would if it was made of Aluminium.
But to realise how much or little can be achieved – I think I read in the last day or 2 that ICAO has jsut released a target of improving economy by 2% by 2050. It seems we are getting close to the limits with existing materials & technology.
That’s really neat, you were working maintenance on those engines. ))) I would love learning that. I can build a house with my own hands, but when it comes to working with mechanics, I am lost. I was pretty sure it was more efficient. It does seem more efficient compared to the cycles of a piston engine. Technology on fuel injection nozzles has improved to get optimum fuel air consistency? Would visible exhaust be a sign of bad fuel mixture or bad air to fuel ratio? I remember some early MiG and Sukoi aircraft like the first models of the MiG-29 and Su-27 would give off visible exhaust. So would the American F-4 phantom.
I also heard about the new leer jet a year ago that was made out of polymers, plastic, and other composites. I do imagine we are pushing the limits with available technology. Combustion engines are versatile, but if advancement is the agenda, a new discovery may revolutionize means of travel. That would be amazing to witness it in our lifetime.
Today we have snow. =(((((((
Mike:
I can’t agree with that.
If you were a “chemtrailer” you would “see” a dense trail of poison across the sky, and not a material which if poured into a glass would pass as slightly-unpleasantly-flavored (but drinkable) water.
That would change your perception, therefore your aesthetics. So you would need the maths, which indicates an up to 10,000:1 dilution with PURE WATER.
With compression ratios approaching 40:1, modern turbofan engines are closely approaching the thermal and tensile limits of known materials, and there’s no further places to go with combustion technology. Just tiny refinements…
Here’s a useful diagram showing what gets combusted and what doesn’t.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m18/JazzRoc/clubcons/combustion.gif
Yeah true enough – but the context was 2 “CON-trailers” talking about whether they are pretty or not – so chemical residues were not relevant 🙂
just poopin in again between my travels, nice to read new comments…oh by the way ..the UN has done something pretty remarkable for something that most say “does not exist” you can read it here http://www.etcgroup.org/en/node/5227
and has anyone watched “what in the world are they spraying” yet?
happy trails to all!! 🙂
The UN also quite clearly there says it does not exist. They are talking about FUTURE geoengineering.
The “what in the world” documentary is covered here:
https://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/
Speaker Stijn Helsen spoke about how there is a distinct difference between contrails and chemtrails.
Vereecke, former mayor of Evergem, Belgium when speaking about chemtrails asserted, “Don’t confuse this with contrails. Those are harmless condensation trails that are only visible for a few seconds. On the other hand chemtrails are clouds of chemicals.”
Read more at Suite101: Chemtrails: International Symposium in Belgium a Success http://www.suite101.com/content/chemtrails-international-symposium-in-belgium-a-success-a243820#ixzz1495uXvRI
more waiting at the dubai airport …wifi signal here is awesome….
one day Uncinus you’ll admit there is something fishy goin on!!
There’s always something fishy going on somewhere.
Did Stijn Helsen explain the difference between a “chemtrail” and a persistent contrail? Because they look and behave exactly alike.
And you’ll notice that story also quotes the KSLA story, where they were 100x wrong with their figures. Not exactly the most rigorously researched article.
Uncinus-
Have you seen this? Its a rambling, half baked attempt at a legitimate “paper” on “chemtrails” – its does cover persistent contrails…and claims to prove definitively that they are “spraying”- but in the end if filled with the same half truths, dots that can’t be connected (cloud seeding etc…) and factual errors…
You, however, do get a mention…even a compliment as reducing folks arguments to “rubble” 🙂
http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=292&Itemid=50
@AZ Patriot
“Speaker Stijn Helsen spoke about how there is a distinct difference between contrails and chemtrails.”
Gee, really? Someone speaking during event called “Chemtrail International Symposium” said that chemtrails are different than contrails? What a surprise!
It is almost as if someone on the homeopathic conference said that homeopathy has far better track record than a placebo…
There are an incredible amount of various atmospheric experiments going on at various times. You can find bits & pieces of research journals indicating such. The U.S. Air force is responsible for the many lines we see in the sky whether right outside or on the radar during the morning news. It is chaff which many times contains aluminum particles, barium particles and of coarse won’t be admitted to by them, “National Security” it was this type of “keeping the public in the dark” that J.F.K. spoke out against shortly before his assassination. No matter what though, people will continue to wake from their slumber wanting disclosure. And whether or not this particular phenomenon is this or that doesn’t matter, what matters is that through fear we gave up our right to know what our leaders were doing a long time ago.
When did we know what our leaders were doing?
Eric wrote:
“And whether or not this particular phenomenon is this or that doesn’t matter, what matters is that through fear we gave up our right to know what our leaders were doing a long time ago.”
Actually, it DOES matter. It’s the difference between believing ones own government is spraying us with chemicals, or not. And it’s why this site exists. Chaff is a non-issue. It’s not being released in any huge quantity, nor is it harmful….that I’m aware of. I guess if it were inhaled in large quantities, it could be dangerous…as with anything else on the planet.
Fear is what creates the typical conspiracy theorist. We as a species fear what we don’t understand. Add a dash of paranoia and the conspiracy theorist will NEVER learn the truth. Fear and paranoid assumption lead people away from the truth. This “chemtrail”/contrail “debate” is proof of that!
When will the chemmies awake from THEIR slumber?!
I pledged my allegiance to my country a LOOOOOONG time ago. I trust the powers that be to keep me safe from enemies, foreign and domestic. I don’t feel they need to explain what is going on behind the scenes because it’s a matter of national security. The trails in the sky have NOTHING to do with how ‘the government” is running the country and they are easily explained through basic science. It’s up to those who “believe” the science is wrong (and “the governments” are evil), to prove it. I have yet to see even the slightest hint of that. Every bit of “evidence” the chemmies come up with to prove “chemtrails” has only served to show that they don’t understand aviation or their own atmosphere very well. For instance, someone linked a google search of “spray nozzles” as “proof” of “chemtrails” and what they did in reality is prove that they are unable to recognize equipment used for completely different purposes. I can EASILY explain every single aviation related “nozzle” in that search, but the conspiracy theorist (chemmie) will NEVER accept my explanation simply because they are suspicious of everyone else on the planet….and always will be.
My mistake, the google search was “chemtrail nozzles”. What kind of images will result from a search like that?! They are going to get nothing but images of items posted by other members of the “chemtrail” community. Nothing that results from such a search will be posted by anyone who is knowledgeable about aviation or atmospheric science because “chemtrail” isn’t a real word.
Change that search to “aircraft nozzles” and one will see several images of many different types of nozzles. Of which each and every one has a purpose completely unrelated to “spraying chemtrails” (pitot tubes, intakes, fluid ports, exhaust ports, fuel dump, air sampling by people who actually care to learn about the environment). But, they all look like they ‘could’ be some sort of ‘spray nozzle’.
This hoax was designed to be successful because there are so many suspicious people who are willing to accept assumptions as fact, and there are so few people who have actually studied aviation. It’s a great hoax, but I feel it ruins the lives of so many. In the process, my life has been affected. I really do feel genuinely sad for those who live in fear of the trails in the sky. They have earned my pity, and so have their families and friends.
The funny thing is the search Chemtrail Nozzles shows not a single “chemtrail nozzle”…. oi…. sad theory. Too bad I don’t have the time to jump in the debates now. :((( Is this “Missile” contrail thing the beginning of the so called LA Contrail Season because I notice this site is blazing with comments of late.
Yes, we had a brief flare up of publicity from the “missile” story. I even got on CNN. It’s facing away now.
That is quite an interesting collection of photos from that search. Every single one of them has a reasonable explanation of course, and many were explained years ago.
SR1419:
Andrew Johnson has a YT channel called ADJUK, which is also responsible for this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H59HOcYjsGM
He adheres to the “Huskisson Effect”, and cobbles together most “alternative” explanations into his site.
To argue with him is to raise HIS status and lower YOURS. Rather like arguing with creationists.
When he checks the “evidence”, he merely checks HIMSELF. LOL
TheFactsMatter:
True.
I have frequently advised these people to use “Advanced Search” to exclude “chemtrail” and other similar “non-words” in order to reach the REAL research data, which is otherwise BURIED beneath thousands of spurious entries.
Unfortunately, of course, they automatically do the reverse…
Please get in touch.
You don’t need to use Advanced Search, can just add a simple -chemtrail
Some other good things to do while researching the trails in the sky…
– “william thomas”
-“G Edward Griffin”
-rense
-carnicom
After that, there isn’t much out there about chemtrails. Well, aside from the pages of individual researchers.
Can anyone explain to me why breathing in silver would be good for us?
Contrails do NOT make clouds. You have to have a salt-based particle like barium to make a cloud. Contrails are made from water vapor crystalized into ice at 30k feet or above. If a contrail is making a cloud it’s a chemtrail, you frakking shill.
Contrails don’t make clouds. Contrails ARE clouds
“Contrails do NOT make clouds. You have to have a salt-based particle like barium to make a cloud. Contrails are made from water vapor crystalized into ice at 30k feet or above. If a contrail is making a cloud it’s a chemtrail, you frakking shill.”
Wow, what a load! “salt based particle”?! Are you referring to condensation nuclei?! Sorry, no need for them to be salt based. They can be anything! dust, smoke, volcanic ash, soot from jet engines…
Please tell me where you learned” such nonsense! looks like YOU are frakkin’ shilling for THAT person!~
Also, if the particles aren’t natural, how the heck were natural clouds created before man was around?! Something tells me that you haven’t quite thought this through.
Michelle wrote: “Contrails are made from water vapor crystalized into ice”
correct…and they are almost identical to cirrus clouds.
Cirrus clouds are ice crystals…they persist and spread…why not contrails?
Look up the term- “contrail cirrus” for more info.
I’ve just completed a 2 week familiarisation course on the B777-300 LR run by Boeing at a non-US National Civil Aviation Authority.
Oddly enough none of the pilots or engineers had ever heard of chemtrails or anything like “it”, there was no part of the presentation covering “it”, and this particular natinoal civil aviation authority has never approved anything to do with “it”, nor seen any aircraft from overseas that are fitted with anything that might be used for “it”.
But we still have contrails aplenty.
but what would you expect – we are civil servants, so therefore by definition part of the MWO conspiracy.
I wonder if saying I’m a liar (which the hoax requires that I must be) would be slander/libel over here…??? hmm…..
Don’t you think most of the posts by Uncinus sound like they’ve been genereated by a computer – so emotionless. Even the name sounds like a computer picked it from a list of cloud names. Who takes the time and effort to set up and maintain a blog to just debunk chemmies and then has no passion? Unless someone is paying them and feeding them those charts and photos.
(Cirrus uncinus is a type of cirrus cloud. The name cirrus uncinus is derived from Latin, meaning “curly hooks”. Also known as mares’ tails, these clouds are generally sparse in the sky, and very thin.)
AZ Patriot has done a great job of countering the Uncinus robot. If AZ Patriot keeps posting, the more you read this site, the more you’ll understand about a lot of things.
Assume I’m a computer. Then point out wehre I was wrong. I’d be happy to fix any errors you point out.
Cirrus Uncinus is my favorite cloud type, that’s why I picked it.
I suspect Uncinus is more exasperated than automated.
As for this: “If AZ Patriot keeps posting, the more you read this site, the more you’ll understand about a lot of things.”
There are plenty of sites around where we can read parnoid posts – AZ is not unique in his attitude, and, anything gleaned from a professional examination excepted, adds nothing to our understanding of paranoid delusions.