(The following was written as a comment by “boenoid”, but I thought it was interesting enough to deserve its own post. I (Mick) have added the assembly line image)
For what it is worth, I am a Boeing engineer with 20 years of experience in the aerospace industry.
* There are no special tanks anywhere on our airplanes to hold chemicals to be sprayed out.
* There are no spray nozzles on the airplanes either, unless you count the emergency fuel dump nozzles on the widebody jets.
* This can be readily ascertained by simply looking through an airplane before the interior wall panels are installed. Here is a list of all the tanks which are on a jetliner:
** Fuel, potable water, waste water, engine fire suppressant (Halon + other stuff), cargo fire suppressant (just Halon), hydraulic reservoirs. On the new airplanes you will also see tank-like devices which generate nitrogen to inert the fuel tanks.
* Further, there is no room for such stuff to get installed. You would have to carry TONS of liquid to make spray trails independent of the exhaust condensation, and the only liquid we carry tons of is Jet-A fuel.
* In Everett Washington, the Seattle flight museum has a restoration center where you can go see dismantled airplanes being readied for display in the museum. The work is done almost entirely by volunteers. I assume other flight museums have similar workshops. If you can find one where you live, go to the restoration center and see the planes up close. There’s no where to hide a sprayer system where it wouldn’t be seen by maintenance crews.
* The Boeing final assembly plant is open for tours by the public, and VIPs from all over the world can get close-up tours. The airplanes are built in a staggered sequence, so that two airplanes side-by-side are usually being made for two different airlines.
* The majority of Boeing’s production is sold overseas. In fact, the company is the nation’s largest exporter.
* Thus, if a domestic airplane was modified for “chemtrail production” in the factory, it would be as easy as pie for a foreign VIP to walk over and say, “What are these fancy tanks and sprayers on the American plane which aren’t on my airplane?”
* If any airplane WAS modified for chemtrail to add chemtrail sprayers, the thousands of Boeing employees would have to know. I don’t work in Fuels, and I can identify every tank and tube in the wing area.
* If thousands of Boeing employees knew, then so would thousands of supplier employees who go through our factories, thousands of airlines employees who go through our factories, and all the FAA and NTSB and DOT people as well. Also, our airplanes and factories are inspected by the Aviation Authorities of foreign countries (like EASA from Europe) and they would also need to be in on the conspiracy.
* There would simply be too many people involved to prevent this from leaking out. If the chem trail sprayers were being added in the factory, the secret would be out.
* So what if the chemtrail sprayers were being added by an aftermarket shop?
* You’re back to the same problem. It takes hundreds of people to design, build, and install a major modification on a jetliner, and the mod shops are just as open as Boeing is. You wouldn’t be able to keep the secret.
* Further, most airlines have their planes maintained by outside suppliers, who would have to be in on the conspiracy. Those who do their own maintenance do the work in open bays that again would make it easy to view the modification.
* And you have the same problem that you need to get thousands of maintenance people, suppliers, and certification authorities in on the conspiracy. It would have leaked by now. All it takes is one guy with a cell phone camera, and the world would know.
* So what if they somehow managed to do all this stuff anyway? Now you have to realize that somebody, somewhere, has to be pumping TONS of chemtrail chemicals into these mysterious hidden tanks on the airplanes. You would need a fill valve, and a distribution system, and special trucks carrying the chemicals disguised as fuel trucks. That would take thousands more people to be in on the conspiracy.
* One giveaway would be two fuel trucks pulling up to the same jetliner – one with the fuel and one with the chemicals. Remember, we’re talking about tons of liquid here.
* It just doesn’t work – you would need independent chemical fill ports, and somebody, somewhere, would notice.
* And while we’re talking about it, remember that every jetliner pilot has to check the weight of the plane and calculate a talk off runway length and other factors. The charts are the same for every jetliner of a given type, but if there really were chemtrail sprayers, then the charts for those airplanes would have to be different to account for the tons of chemicals that might be on the airplane.
* So, I really don’t think there is any way to hide the sprayers on jetliners. Too many people would have to know, and it would be too easy to detect by passerby.
* So, what if the chemtrail chemicals are in the jet fuel? This wouldn’t require ANY visible modifications to the airplanes, and far fewer people would have to know about the conspiracy.
* This would be harder to refute, BUT, you would have to discard the “on and off” contrails as being caused by pilots turning sprayers on and off. All the fuel on the plane came from the same fuel trucks and the same fuel tanks, so the supposed chemtrail would have to be continuous from takeoff until landing. I think that would have been noticed by now.
* So to my mind, that pretty much eliminates the possibility of using jetliners to create chemtrails.
* Which means you have to be using military jets, and thousands of them, flying unnoticed back and forth on normal commercial routes. So now you have to have all the air traffic controllers in on the conspiracy as well.
* And the planes will again need special tanks for the chemicals, and special fill ports, and special sprayers, and special tanker trucks filling the chemical tanks on the planes, special non-military suppliers delivering the stuff, and you’re right back to the same issue of needing to keep thousands of people from talking.
Bottom line:
You would need a special delivery system on the airplanes.
You would need a special fill system.
You would need independent tanker trucks.
You would need a separate supply chain.
You would need thousands and thousands of people to hold their tongues, and never have even ONE person leave any incriminating evidence in a safe deposit box to be discovered after their deaths.
It ain’t happening.
and UNCINUS, why must you insist on saying “people dont really care about contrails anyway”…really beside the point of this website.
didnt you notice the WHITEOUT today? I have the photos and video from 6 am to 6 pm all day today. hundreds of PC’s starting right about sunrise completely augmented the sky/sunlight for the day. Very dynamic forms..you can see what is going on in the atmosphere but that doesnt mean that a whiteout of the whole blue sky isnt an issue “people care about”.
People care about all the bull being pushed on them from globalists/zionists/bankers/nwo agendas….of course they dont notice the sky! Thats what tv infotainment brainwashing is for.
@ Cheezedick
that is a UFO dude. one of the many being spotted around the world in the recent month..
it shut down airports.
Y’all need to realize crazy shitz afoot. Comprende?
Hi Ctyforg, I was wondering if the change in the weather would bring you back.
Sorry Forg. No comprende….and I hate zionism, nwo as well.
There would simply be too many people involved to prevent this from leaking out. If the chem trail sprayers were being added in the factory, the secret would be out.
Okay first, I would like to say that I’m on the fence about chemtrails. However, I don’t understand this statement. It seems to me that if there is practically a cult of people who believe in chemtrails, then the secret is out. It has been leaked. It may not be true, but it came from somewhere. Why not someone at the factory?
Or, what about this…
Suppose there is no big secret, no spraying program… the trails are actually contrails which behave differently in different atmospheric conditions.
However, one day, some one looks up and says, Wow, what is all that about? and posts on the Internet.
More people (who similarly don’t get it about contrails) start theorising about conspiracies and speculating as to the reasons for the apparently deliberate work. None of this is true. It didn’t come from the factory. It is all Internet generated, powered by gullibility and ignorance. (I mean that in the kindest way.)
This is why we need faster broadband everywhere; so that this type of thing can reach critical mass and really take off. (sarcasm)
“This is why we need faster broadband everywhere; so that this type of thing can reach critical mass and really take off. (sarcasm)”
The sooner the rest of the world hears of the plight of the chemtrailer, the sooner there will be an effort to better explain the trails in the sky. No one tries because no one knows about “chemtrails” aside from a small group on youtube. Honestly, I have older relatives who were ATC and they haven’t even heard of the “chemtrail” hoax. It’s not as widespread as some would like to believe.
Personally, I hope more people become aware of the hoax and take the time to learn about the facts without first jumping to conclusions based on some VERY bad information. The more “main stream” this story is, the more aviation and atmospheric science professional will learn about the poor chemmies and take the time to help them.
I personally believe that both aviation and meteorology are VERY rare studies. maybe one in several thousand take the time to actually learn the facts about these subjects. They are rare and mysterious. From the ground, things can appear as one thing, and be something completely different. That lack of education in these areas of study lead many (way too many) to jump to some VERY wrong conclusions.
Who knows, maybe with the help of some good graphic artists, and some basic science, a group of respected scientists would be able to help these poor folks! Right now, I just think the majority of those educated in these areas are just completely unaware that the “chemtrail” hoax even exists. I’m sure they’d be glad to help.
Yes, I totally agree. I am a meteorologist, and I am doing just what you say. As soon as the chemtruthers learn of my specialisation, I am labelled a disinformationist shill and part of the problem.
Almost all of my colleagues have never heard of chemtrails. Almost all in public office (elected politicians) have never heard of them. Chemtrails are also a very rare “specialisation”.
I guess the debate is done now, in light of all the recent evidences, the patents, and admittance to some degrees. and i have recently talked to Meteorologist who said in was in possible for a object to create two contrails at the same time, one which dissipates and one which covers the sky, ( but i do take into account that he was Meteorologist and they are in the business of error, i joke). But i have indeed learned much from this site, and again would like to thank all. I have a new found respect and appreciation for the sky above our heads, and am glad to know that although chem trailing is reality, it is not of all the many lines in the sky are toxic. Thank you.
again sorry for my ridiculous English.
But there’s no still no evidence that anyone has actually been doing geoengineering with contrails. Nor has anyone admitted doing it (in fact they quite specifically deny it).
What admittance?
Nothing has changed. Contrails often persist, spread and cover the sky in a haze…
So, seeing one do so isn’t evidence of something else…
@ rucifer:
“… it is not of all the many lines in the sky are toxic.”
So, which ones are toxic, which are not toxic, and how do you tell the difference?
Monsanto is spraying aluminum via aerosol which raises the PH of the soil. This in order to destroy the ability to grow non-genetically modified (by Monsanto) plant seeds. This is not beyond them – check out what they do to central California farmers. They also fund politicians from both sides of the isle to keep their mouth shut. Why do you think the government built up and keeps an emergency storage of non-GM seeds? (Hint: its not for nuclear war or bio attack)
There’s no better way to stay in power then to control peoples food and force them to get it from you. They don’t care that GM foods are harmful causing cancer etc. They don’t care that aluminum oxide contributes to alzheimers. They just care about the simplicity of money, power, and keeping it. An age old tale – shouldn’t be called a conspiracy.
There’s enough evidence out there but the average stupid person doesn’t think outside the box to arrive at the simple explanation.
The killing of the sheep is a side bonus of controlling population and paying out SS. Everyone in power benefits.
Aluminium oxide does not raise the Ph of soil – high pH means alkaline, it is low pH that is acidic and is the problem with Aluminium! If Aluminium raised the pH it would counter the acidity of soil, and be the solution to it’s own problem!!
Aluminum oxide is also very common soils, and when the soil becomes acidic for any reason (whether naturally or artificially), Aluminium (Al3+) becomes a poison to plants – this has been known since before 1920 – are you suggesting Monsanto was doing something nefarious back then?
Aluminium oxide is the most common form of aluminium – it is the coating of every piece of aluminium you see and handle – from boats and aircraft structures to pots and pans and soft drink and beer cans – when you crack open a can of anything the new edge of aluminium exposed immediately becomes aluminium oxide and you drink or pour over it.
Some verifiable evidence to support your claims would be good – lots of people say who causes persistant contrails for various nefarious purposes. But no-one has been able to provide any any evidence that stands up to scrutiny – including you. Just speculation and accusation without backup.
By all means please provide some evidence.
All this guff about aluminium…I spent a few months of one year working in the largest water filtration plant in the Republic of Ireland. Every day heaps of AlSO4, or more precisely Al2(SO4)3, aluminium sulphate, was added to the untreated water coming in from the reservoir before being fed into settling tanks. The reason being that this salt would attach itself to various particles that were unwanted in the water, make them heavy and they’d settle at the bottom of the tanks.
In recent years there has been a suspicion that high levels of aluminium in drinking water might be linked to alzheimers. Beside the point. The fact remains that we’ve been using aluminium salts, in one form or another, for years. And that 8% of the earths crust is aluminium. Only oxygen and silicon are more plentiful – yes, this means that there is more aluminium than calcium, iron, sodium, potassium, etc.
People who believe in chemtrails are sheep who are easily led astray by conspiracy loonies on radio talk shows and nutty web sites. Chemtrails would be easy to prove. Someone can take air samples on the ground when they see lots of “chemtrails” and actually see if there are high or low levels of any chemical. They can also fly a plane up to the actual trails and take samples of them to see 100% if they are more than condensation(water vapor) and jet exhaust. Anyone with common sense knows that it’s easy to prove or disprove chemtrails. I wish MythBusters would actually do a show on chemtrails to finally squash this urban legend.
I am new here, been reading for a couple days. First of all, Uncinus and JazzRoc the two of you are doing great work. Your sources are all credible, and its wonderful to see someone using their brains to set people straight about chemtrails. I thank you for your effort.
In response to Julie,
Regardless of whether Aluminum raises or lowers PH, there is no practical advantage to applying it aerially via aerosol. It would be incredibly ineffective (not to mention prohibitively expensive) and most of it would just blow away and not land on the soil they were trying treat. IF Monsanto were applying Aluminum, they would simply add it to the granular fertilizer that is already being applied. Please try and think logically about these kinds of things before you make such wild accusations
boeing flyer, i thank you so very much. i can tell when someone is giving the straight facts and truth . it is greatly appreciated. now, here is the tough part: it may not be commercial aircraft, but something is happening that wasn’t happening before, a few years back. i remember a time when there were no tic tac toe game boards in the sky, i love aviation enough to have gone to the smithsonian, three thousand miles away, to see lindys plane. but i don’t know the business of it. did you change the fuel that was used a few years back? because we did not have all these weird clouds, and also, true, that the weather people on the news sometimes report that they cannot tell about the dopler rain thing, because the air force, navy , whomever is doing it at the time , has put chaff in the air to confuse radar systems. this is real and current, not ww2, and maybe it is training for military pilots, but that would be a lot of training i have a life threatening respiratory condition, some times it gets better , when the air is clear, when there are all those things in the sky, i don’t know if it is psychosomatic, but seems that i am ill after that. and it rains more than it used to in los angeles, more often. remember the number they did on us with global warming? what do you think?
putting aluminum in the fuel would most likely plate the inside of the exhaust, and jam up the works aluminum melts in that type of heat , so i don’t think that there is al in the fuel. and you know how your car engine would be messed up if you put something in the fuel that isn’t supposed to be there. that pilot , he made sense, about carrying the tanks and so forth . but if the fuel was changed, because he mentioned hydrogen, and i don’t know if that is a different fuel, to try and reduce the pollution of the past i asked him, lets see what he says if he answers, but they used to put lead in gasoline, so maybe that could be why the trails aren ‘t dissapating at a quick rate remember the old days, going to the beach on a nice sunny day, and a small piper cup plane with a little red flag and some contrail advertisement like to buy coppertone or whatever? it would disappear in less than five minutes, or three minutes. poof! these are not like that. these clouds hang there. they are different. the shapes of the clouds, for example, did they change aircraft exhaust shape to make these results? contrails were just straight lines when i was young . now they twist and have designs, i don’t like false hoaxes, but i do like to get the story true and factual. and nobody can deny that ten years, fifteen years? ago , these things did not exist when a person looked at the sky . so it is not to be denied. look up. but as to what is the reason, that is still not concluded as far as i am concerned and i bet a lot of other people share this opinion. thanks, all of you
That sounds like you are talking about different things. A “skywriting” plane uses smoke. A regular contrail is actually a cloud – made from condensed, and usually frozen, water vapor. It lasts and behaves pretty much like a regular cloud. Meaning if conditions are right it can last for hours, and even spread out.
Like what? Most contrails are straight lines, because planes mostly fly in straight lines. If a plane does not, then then then contrail will not. In addition a contrail can be twisted and blown about by wake eddies and the wind.
Nothing has actually changed. You are just paying more attention to contrails, so you see more of that variability.
I think I must be at a central hub for high-altitude flyovers. There is a lot of air traffic that comes in from the west and curves south. The weather has been perfect in Seattle recently for lingering contrail formation.
And of course nothing changes the fact that these are normal contrails. I don’t remember the numbers, but the increase in air travel over the last 30 years has been phenomenal. So of course the sky doesn’t look the same way it did when some of us were kids. I am all for looking up though, and observing the awesome phenomenons in the sky. We’ve had some nice sunsets recently too, with a lot of smog from automobiles lingering close to the ground. That always makes the lingering contrails colorful.
Stupid reasoning, if I use the same I can say Area 51 doesn’t exist, gimme a break.
But area 51 demonstrably does exist. You can see it on a map, you can visit it, nobody denies it exists (although they dispute the name), and there’s lots of documentation about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_51
Chemtrails, on the other hand, have no evidence backing their existence.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=263090677107484&set=a.156797547736798.40187.100002196627746&type=1&ref=nf
sure,sounds like tavistock to me,
John, that link goes to a photo of the interior of the test A380 G-WWOW
I have read the evidence on all sides, even the third side. Having a technical mindset, I understand the validations made to debunk chemtrails. I also know that America and the world got suckered into a 30 Billion dollar moon mission that never happened, and all they got back was some fake Antartica rocks. lol And it’s really not so hard to believe in chemtrails, look at how long people have believed in the banking system being legit. Or that Communism was America’s enemy. lol Debunkers should look at the fact that they have been played for suckers, than they might wake up to many things on this world.
Or you should look at the lack of evidence for chemtrails and conclude, for now, that they probably don’t exist after all. Or you could, instead of trying to prove a conspiracy with other, unrelated, conspiracies, to put forth actual proof or at least try to disprove the debunking. If you can’t, well, that’s food for thought, isn’t it?
Debunkers have a heap of science that says the sameas tehm, from all around the world. you can replicate some if it with a soft-drink bottle – take a new one out of the fridge on a warm day – crack the top and often the inside mists up – that’s a change in atmospheric conditions creating a cloud. Obviously it is at an elementary level….but it is also real, demonstrable and verifiable.
Nothing to to with chemtrails is demonstrable or verifiable. Nothing at all – ever, in the 15 or so years since they have supposedly existed not one single piece of verifiable evidence has ever been presented.
I find it amazing that such a secret could have been kept for 15 years without one single leak, without one single piece of documetnation turning up, without a single whistleblower willing to take the stand or be identified. No aircraft spray mechanisms, not materials being loaded on aircraft, no doctored fuel – in the vernacular “there’s no nuthin’!”
so I’m going with there’s “no nuthin'” ‘cos there’s nuthin’ to know – yuo can spout how I’ve been mislead or paid off as much as you like – but that isn’t evidence of anything actually existing either.
It´s worth nothing, but one of the earliest memories I have from my grandfather (so it´s was in the 80´s) it´s of him using the contrails to predict the weather for the next day. I´s not important if it worked, but his method was simple, short lasting contrails meant the whether could changed, and long lasting contrails meant that the weather was going to remain the same.
So my point is that at least in the 80´s there were contrails that lasted for hours. And I must say that when I came in contact with this theory I was quite intrigued by it, but when I saw the type of arguments of the chemtrail believers were using I was put off. Then I saw that “what in the world…” and I almost fall of my chair laughing.
If you defend something, and fail to present any kind of evidence, you´r probably wrong.
On the other side, I might agree that there are more lasting contrails today, and that it can even be a problem on it´s own, so why the obsession with the conspiracy?
I think you have his rules backwards. Long means it probably will change. But then, weather is always changing sooooo
You are probably right, but my point was that at the time (and prior to that) there were long lasting contrails.
Using contrails to predict the weather was also mentioned in the Peterson/Audubon book, “A Field Guide to the Atmosphere,” published 1981, so it is more than just folk wisdom.
In summer in Montana, persistent contrails often preceed thunderstorms and form over developing thunder heads.