(The following was written as a comment by “boenoid”, but I thought it was interesting enough to deserve its own post. I (Mick) have added the assembly line image)
For what it is worth, I am a Boeing engineer with 20 years of experience in the aerospace industry.
* There are no special tanks anywhere on our airplanes to hold chemicals to be sprayed out.
* There are no spray nozzles on the airplanes either, unless you count the emergency fuel dump nozzles on the widebody jets.
* This can be readily ascertained by simply looking through an airplane before the interior wall panels are installed. Here is a list of all the tanks which are on a jetliner:
** Fuel, potable water, waste water, engine fire suppressant (Halon + other stuff), cargo fire suppressant (just Halon), hydraulic reservoirs. On the new airplanes you will also see tank-like devices which generate nitrogen to inert the fuel tanks.
* Further, there is no room for such stuff to get installed. You would have to carry TONS of liquid to make spray trails independent of the exhaust condensation, and the only liquid we carry tons of is Jet-A fuel.
* In Everett Washington, the Seattle flight museum has a restoration center where you can go see dismantled airplanes being readied for display in the museum. The work is done almost entirely by volunteers. I assume other flight museums have similar workshops. If you can find one where you live, go to the restoration center and see the planes up close. There’s no where to hide a sprayer system where it wouldn’t be seen by maintenance crews.
* The Boeing final assembly plant is open for tours by the public, and VIPs from all over the world can get close-up tours. The airplanes are built in a staggered sequence, so that two airplanes side-by-side are usually being made for two different airlines.
* The majority of Boeing’s production is sold overseas. In fact, the company is the nation’s largest exporter.
* Thus, if a domestic airplane was modified for “chemtrail production” in the factory, it would be as easy as pie for a foreign VIP to walk over and say, “What are these fancy tanks and sprayers on the American plane which aren’t on my airplane?”
* If any airplane WAS modified for chemtrail to add chemtrail sprayers, the thousands of Boeing employees would have to know. I don’t work in Fuels, and I can identify every tank and tube in the wing area.
* If thousands of Boeing employees knew, then so would thousands of supplier employees who go through our factories, thousands of airlines employees who go through our factories, and all the FAA and NTSB and DOT people as well. Also, our airplanes and factories are inspected by the Aviation Authorities of foreign countries (like EASA from Europe) and they would also need to be in on the conspiracy.
* There would simply be too many people involved to prevent this from leaking out. If the chem trail sprayers were being added in the factory, the secret would be out.
* So what if the chemtrail sprayers were being added by an aftermarket shop?
* You’re back to the same problem. It takes hundreds of people to design, build, and install a major modification on a jetliner, and the mod shops are just as open as Boeing is. You wouldn’t be able to keep the secret.
* Further, most airlines have their planes maintained by outside suppliers, who would have to be in on the conspiracy. Those who do their own maintenance do the work in open bays that again would make it easy to view the modification.
* And you have the same problem that you need to get thousands of maintenance people, suppliers, and certification authorities in on the conspiracy. It would have leaked by now. All it takes is one guy with a cell phone camera, and the world would know.
* So what if they somehow managed to do all this stuff anyway? Now you have to realize that somebody, somewhere, has to be pumping TONS of chemtrail chemicals into these mysterious hidden tanks on the airplanes. You would need a fill valve, and a distribution system, and special trucks carrying the chemicals disguised as fuel trucks. That would take thousands more people to be in on the conspiracy.
* One giveaway would be two fuel trucks pulling up to the same jetliner – one with the fuel and one with the chemicals. Remember, we’re talking about tons of liquid here.
* It just doesn’t work – you would need independent chemical fill ports, and somebody, somewhere, would notice.
* And while we’re talking about it, remember that every jetliner pilot has to check the weight of the plane and calculate a talk off runway length and other factors. The charts are the same for every jetliner of a given type, but if there really were chemtrail sprayers, then the charts for those airplanes would have to be different to account for the tons of chemicals that might be on the airplane.
* So, I really don’t think there is any way to hide the sprayers on jetliners. Too many people would have to know, and it would be too easy to detect by passerby.
* So, what if the chemtrail chemicals are in the jet fuel? This wouldn’t require ANY visible modifications to the airplanes, and far fewer people would have to know about the conspiracy.
* This would be harder to refute, BUT, you would have to discard the “on and off” contrails as being caused by pilots turning sprayers on and off. All the fuel on the plane came from the same fuel trucks and the same fuel tanks, so the supposed chemtrail would have to be continuous from takeoff until landing. I think that would have been noticed by now.
* So to my mind, that pretty much eliminates the possibility of using jetliners to create chemtrails.
* Which means you have to be using military jets, and thousands of them, flying unnoticed back and forth on normal commercial routes. So now you have to have all the air traffic controllers in on the conspiracy as well.
* And the planes will again need special tanks for the chemicals, and special fill ports, and special sprayers, and special tanker trucks filling the chemical tanks on the planes, special non-military suppliers delivering the stuff, and you’re right back to the same issue of needing to keep thousands of people from talking.
Bottom line:
You would need a special delivery system on the airplanes.
You would need a special fill system.
You would need independent tanker trucks.
You would need a separate supply chain.
You would need thousands and thousands of people to hold their tongues, and never have even ONE person leave any incriminating evidence in a safe deposit box to be discovered after their deaths.
It ain’t happening.
Uncinus, I too was impressed by this. So much so, that it will be an entry in my blog too, if that’s OK by you.
I am assuming you know that I have (almost) shamelessly lifted whole passages of fascinating debate from your comments in the past, (and learned quite a lot about contrail formation that I didn’t originally know) but in this case the quality of this entry was so well earned by the quality you alone have imbued into this site that I feel I must ask you first.
It’s strange really, for there isn’t a point here that I haven’t raised myself. I suppose that it’s because this comment is so professional, well-written, succinct – and springs from a source so much more recent and topical than my own personal experience.
Thanks once again for your calm and scientific approach to the science of contrails and the atmosphere. It serves well as an example to all of us. Especially me…
Jazzroc, I really don’t think I have any say in what you’d do with boenoid’s post, since I did not write it. Any permissions would be entirely up to him.
Succinctness is indeed a useful communication tool 🙂
This was a great post by boenoid and an excellent point of reference for Contrail Science.
Unfortunately the chemtrailers stopped listening at “I am a Boeing engineer with 20 years of experience in the aerospace industry.”. This instantly put them into “you’re a paid government shill” mode…so to them, anything you said after that is going to be classified as misinformation and debunking.
Even though everything you said makes perfect sense, but they will dismiss it because they’re paranoid conspiracy freaks who can’t understand atmospheric science.
Mr. Suntour
Thanks for making this into a post! I had actually bookmarked the comment permalink for future reference, but having it as its own post is much handier. Cheers.
Too much logic for CT believers. Makes entirely too much sense.
Of course, they know chemtrails are real because the artist formerly known as the artist formerly known as Prince said something about them on a talk show.
Thanks to Boeniod for posting and Uncinus for posting it as you did.
CHEMTRAILS are REAL !!
the substance is added to the FUEL !!
CHEMTRAILS ARE DEADLY FOR HUMANS !!
“CHEMTRAILS are REAL !!
the substance is added to the FUEL !!
CHEMTRAILS ARE DEADLY FOR HUMANS !!”
So convinced yet so wrong.
These people keep mentioning “chemicals and substances”, yet are totally unaware of the fact that our air is monitored by so many people (very few of which work for “the government”) and no one has found ANYTHING to support the claims. No unusual chemicals…no unusual substances. ALL these people have is the rumor and assumptions they find on line. I weep for the future of humanity if this is how people are going to “educate” themselves.
“CHEMTRAILS are REAL !!
the substance is added to the FUEL !!”
Lets assume for the moment that this is true.
Explain please:
– on-and-off “chemtrails” (are pilots playing with ignition key?)
– planes leaving no “chemtrails” (are they flying on pure orgone?)
– disappering “chemtrails” (wrong batch of substances?)
– fact that all airplanes tank the same fuel, including various “rogue” governments, and yet there are no public accusation about Eeevil American Poisoners (oh, NWO and all).
You have no clue, and, according to the rest of believers are probably “paid government shill”.
Tarhim:
“CHEMTRAILS are REAL !!
the substance is added to the FUEL !!” Lets assume for the moment that this is true.
Forgive me, Tarhim, but I’m going to play along. 🙂
Explain please:
– on-and-off “chemtrails” (are pilots playing with ignition key?)
No. They’re switching tanks.
– planes leaving no “chemtrails” (are they flying on pure orgone?)
No. They’ve run out of poison and are scuttling back to base.
– disappearing “chemtrails” (wrong batch of substances?)
Yes. They cannot measure, and never get the amount or timing right. It iasn’t possible, because that would require thinking and math.
– fact that all airplanes tank the same fuel, including various “rogue” governments, and yet there are no public accusation about Eeevil American Poisoners (oh, NWO and all).
We’ll give that a miss because we don’t understand you. And anyway, you’re obviously a shill because you are asking us questions.
You have no clue, and, according to the rest of believers are probably “paid government shill”.
No. It’s because we haven’t a clue (and shills do) that we cannot be “paid government shills”.
People that know what they’re talking about ARE obviously shills. As are people that can spell properly.
I would like to Draw peoples attention to a frightening Possibility that I believe is in fact a Terrifying Reality. Namely: the chem-trails are being Used to spread Internet Obsession and Addiction. See http://baninter.net/chemtrails.html
Consider the evidence: The First reports of severe ChemTrail contamination date from the SAME period in the late 1990s as the first beginnings of Widespread Internet use.
This Cannot Be Coincidence. Surely, the chemical or Biological (or Nuclear?) agents being Added to aeroplane fuel and Dispersed over our heads, are custom-designed to Provoke and Maintain Internet Mania. No Wonder more and more people are hooked on their Internet ‘fix’.
Please join our Campaign for an all-out Ban on the ‘net’: http://baninter.net
We can fight the tyranny of The internet and Chemtrails at the same time.
Nice banter. This comment will self-destruct immediately.
Just read somewhere that the Philadelphia project had 135000 people involved and was still kept a secret… Just a thought
“For what it is worth, I am a Boeing engineer with 20 years of experience in the aerospace industry.
* There are no special tanks anywhere on our airplanes to hold chemicals to be sprayed out.
It [chemtrailing] ain’t happening.”
I would totally agree with this Boeing engineer if he can prove that the only planes being used in the world are in fact Boeing planes and that Boeing’s are totally impossible to modify for weather modification or chemtrail applications.
Of course, he can’t prove this. I challenge some people in here to study the designs of large cargo planes, like the C-5 Galaxy or the Globemaster.
To think that a Boeing passenger plane can’t be gutted out and fitted for some sort of chemical spraying application is ludicrous and totally foolish.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk165/hsaive/Chemtrails/ChemtrailsAircraft-cabin-Debunked.jpg
“Bottom line:
You would need a special delivery system on the airplanes.
You would need a special fill system.
You would need independent tanker trucks.
You would need a separate supply chain.”
LOL, perhaps you people should go check out all the patents filed on this technology…it’s not to difficlut to find.
“I would totally agree if he can prove that” – Sounds OK, doesn’t it? But it’s the person making the claim (“chemtrails are taking place”) who is supposed to provide the – evidence.
“To think that a Boeing passenger plane can’t be gutted out and fitted for some sort of chemical spraying application is ludicrous and totally foolish.” – To think that a Boeing passenger plane can be gutted out and fitted for some sort of chemical spraying application is also ludicrous and totally foolish. But you don’t even notice it, do you?
LOL, perhaps you people should go check out all the patents filed on this technology… it’s not to difficlut to find. – A popular challenge frequently issued by someone who hasn’t done it to someone who has. Having done it, let me tell you that mankind has been patenting
everything ever since patents were invented. You’ll definitely find schemes to alter the atmosphere since the era of balloon flight. If you assume that every such patented scheme to have been put into operation (after all, governments have always been this way, and I’m inviting you to extend your paranioa futher to assume multiple instances and persistence of policy over more than a century) since that time then, of course, we became extinct at the end of the Edwardian era and never fought WW2. Your paranoia’s too fresh, and needs to be nicely aged. Clut – occasionally accidental typos make me burst out laughing…
Toxic Prayer,
The majority of aircraft accused of being sprayers are identified as being civil aircraft.
The trails came from the engines, the wastewater dump points, APU or they were simply aerodynamic contrails.
Ask yourself the question what chemicals can survive the extreme heat of the combustion chamber.
Being a commercial pilot, I would surely notice a spraying installation for multiple reasons.
Before each flight an exterior inspection is performed, I would notice any added spraying equipment.
On board there is no room to hide the chemical tanks, so they will be noticed immediately.
I would notice if the empty weight of the aircraft would suddenly be higher without any added equipment listed. The mass & Balance of an aircraft is very important for predicting the performance of the aircraft. The extra weight and shifted center of gravity would be noticed by me on takeoff, then the trim setting is incorrect and the handling feels different.
Also, the fuel consumption will be highter due to the added weight.
Virga, those are some wonderful points. Thanks for sharing them with us. It’s such a shame that these people don’t even consider for a SECOND that they don’t understand aviation. They have convinced themselves that it’s perfectly acceptable and normal to “believe” they have properly educated themselves by watching youtube videos and visiting the websites of other people who mistakenly “believe” they have educated themselves properly, and accepting everything they write. They don’t take into account all the variables we understand as crucial to understanding that this whole “Chemtrail” hoax is so easily explained away.
Thanks again for posting the facts.
Yeah chemtrails don’t exist and this news report doesn’t exist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFpF-c8Jgx0
I think planes don’t exist, or New York doesn’t exist, maybe I don’t exist…
Sorry Lex-
But You, New York, planes and this report do indeed exist…but the reporter misread the results from the Lab and has since discussed the report- see here:
https://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/
Moreover, even if the report was accurate, do you really think putting a jar on the hood of your car for 3 weeks can be considered a legitimate sample of a contrail?
Every day I wake to find that a new chemtard has been created because they found that KSLA report and don’t know the full story. Shoddy reporting and ignorance are responsible for so many in this world believing they are being sprayed like bugs by their own people. How sad is that?!?
Hey Mr. Boeing …
Maybe … just maybe … they are added AFTER manufacturing at Boeing!! Also, what the heck are they continuing to spray into MY SKY everyday. I see it and my eyes are not lying!!
.
.
. funny things happen when you think ‘outside the Matrix!’ … I suggest that you try it sometime.
.
.
. Best of luck and I hope that Chemtrails don’t kill your grandchildren!
Seeing something with your eyes, and understanding what you see are two VERY different things. It amazes me that you chemtards just completely dismiss the VALUE of an education in the subjects that easily prove you wrong…and ignorant.
I re-posted beonoid’s ‘plausibility’ argument many times throughout the forum.prisonplanet.tv website, the premier forum of the ‘Alex Jones’ crowd, next to my own contributions which includes the ‘CHEMA-KILL 2.0’ assemblage.
http://unhypnotize.com/chemtrails-project-cloverleaf/6264-chema-kill-movie-extended-version-2-0-1-15-a.html
From this, I hope many visitors will be brought into the conversation, able to look at some of the most convincing points from both sides.
I summed it up by saying “I propose, that even if 99% of ‘persistent contrails’ are completely normal, & there are only 1% that corresponds to a ‘conspiratorial’ agenda then it needs to be flushed out all the same.
It’s too powerful to ignore, considering the other types of evidence present, empirical and circumstantial.”
Now with many more individuals interested in the HAARP program and related activities, perhaps more answers will be forthcoming.
Stay Sovereign America!
Let’s see, the KC-135 in flight refueling station is a flying fuel tank. I guess one conspiracy theory would be that a KC-135 could be modified to look just like a standard refueler but the running fuel tanks could be segregated from any other CHEM agent tanks. The boom could be used to release the agents. http://www.af.mil/shared/media/factsheet/kc-135.jpg. This modification could be done anywhere. Remember there are skunk works all over that are doing things that you and I will never know about. Hey, I have done stuff that you will never know about. 🙂
BTW, The KC-135 was basically a modified Boeing 707.
Sure, but the question is: how do they keep it a secret?
One can see how a single KC-135 could be interpolated into passenger traffic, but NOT how MANY could be.
And there are countless videos of ordinary passenger aircraft laying the dense trails which are claimed to be “chemtrails” by “chemtrailers”.
If you claim KC-135s to be responsible, then all those passenger planes are NOT.
But then you would need to demonstrate there are hundreds of KC-135s up there, and yet they are NOT seen in videos of aircraft laying trails, nor is there any mention anywhere in ATC and flight magazines.
You seem to be backing yourself into a corner.
Just a response on this part:
* So what if they somehow managed to do all this stuff anyway? Now you have to realize that somebody, somewhere, has to be pumping TONS of chemtrail chemicals into these mysterious hidden tanks on the airplanes. You would need a fill valve, and a distribution system, and special trucks carrying the chemicals disguised as fuel trucks. That would take thousands more people to be in on the conspiracy.*
I have read a report awhile ago from an insider (I will see if I can find this article, might be useful) or a whistleblower; this person stated that everyone working on and around the airplanes has their own task and business, there is one specific group that does the toilets .. nobody interferes with these guys, and he said that these are the ones tanking the chemicals, perhaps using the waste water/toilet system tanks or summat … I don’t know anything about how all this works but when I find the report (it was quite long and has a load of detailed information) I will send it to you.
furthermore it is said that the “chemtrail project” is monitored completely automatically by an intricate computer system based in Berlin Germany.
anywayys, the toilet guys man, nasty shiiiiit
😉
The chemtrail deniers are too busy viewing the issue through the perspective of “conspiracy” to actually see the plausibility of the phenomenon.I`m not much of a conspiracy enthusiast either,but I still believe the chemtrail phenomenon is real.I dont necessarily believe the aerosol operations to have a sinister motive,but definitely misguided and irresponsible.You naysayers are trying harder to disprove chemtrails than the believers are to prove them,and even less convincingly,I might add.I`m sorry,I just dont buy the claim that contrails that linger for hours and morph into cloud-like formations are normal and totally benign.Forget the word conspiracy,if it helps.The military and the DOD are conducting atmospheric experiments of some kind and they are doing it without public knowledge or consent,and without adequate public health or environmental impact studies.And that is cause for concern.I dont believe particulate fallout is harmless.
Benjamin
It is when it’s ICE…
If there’s no conspiracy then how to do you tally your claim that persistent contrails are not normal with this:
Either you are wrong, or there is a conspiracy so vast it has extended to modifying encyclopedias, science books and newspaper archives.
See also:
https://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/
Really? You don’t buy a claim that has been observed, reported and recorded for more than 70 years? Do you think the conspiracy started back in the 1920’s with the first reported/observed contrail (which btw lingered and spread out into a cirrus cloud)?
Article below taken from the link located both:
Here – https://contrailscience.com/pre-wwii-contrails/
and
Here – http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/049/mwr-049-07-0412c.pdf
This website kinda pisses me off. I’ve been “studying” chem-trails for a couple years now. I have thousands of pictures (never published anywhere) of “chemtrail phenomenon”, and some sort of ionization experiments, maybe HAARP or EISCAT technology. I don’t know for sure because all information available about haarp and eiscat are so saturated with bullshit and accusations.
All i know is what i see and feel. (yeah, feel. you can feel it too.)
Well, you guys are telling me here that chemtrails does not exist. Hey, what the F**K?!
Never heard of “owning the weather 2025?”
Never heard of chemtrail-confessions in MSM?
Never heard of chem-tests made in public is UK, but in secrecy?
I could go on and on with this list about the chemtrails.
Most stupid thing what i’ve read was in this website: Its the bottom line. How in the hell can anyone be so stupid?
I just can believe that this kind of mis-information is so professionally made. Well, wait a sec: suddenly it makes sense.
Come on all you chemtrail-bunkers! Open you god-damn mind and think for your self for a minute. Make it an hour if you like.
And ONE MORE THING TO ADD:
Please, all debunkers and owner of this site: Before you comment anything about my previous message, would you be kind and tell me and everyone else what causes those black “lines” in the sky?
Jan, in regards to the black “lines” in the sky, it’s addressed here
–> https://contrailscience.com/contrails-dark-lines-chemtrails/
Please post some links to information and photos that convince you 100% that persistent contrails are “chemtrails”, then we can attempt to discuss things rationally.
Thanks!
Jan:
Look DOWN, and use your eyes:
A compelling video shot from above, showing an approaching aircraft laying a dense contrail. Note the trail shadow falling on a veil of altocumulus clouds in the troposphere below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95HS8VQO4ig
It’s quick, so PAUSE and use the YouTube slider.
Suntour, thanks for info.
I haven’t ever heard anything about black lines. Well, grow old and learn, huh? 🙂
This certainly is _informative_ website.
I wont post my own photos yet, still gathering info about everything.
I’m not saying that every trail in the sky is “chem”, but i’m surely not saying that it is impossible.
“Chemtrails” are used to geoengineer our planet. That is the most logical assumption that i’ve come across.
Without adding any links, can some one comment about
a) “Owning the weather 2025” USAF document from 1996 (formerly “Full Spectrum Domination 2025)
b) Main Stream Media news about “chemtrails” (god damn, i hate the word chemtrail)
This information is available to everyone via google. Just do it, like nike said.
Also, just stubled upon a couple of vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiBZI2J3Hj8&feature=channel
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBaPJCXMPd8&feature=related
I got multiple different shots taken by myself of identically looking planes.
And i should add that i’ve taken these shots with full raw 18mpx + 600mm focal. I can see the “pipes” releasing stuff in the air.
All shots taken in western Finland, PORI.
I ain’t saying anything about plausibility of these videos, as i’ve seen thousands of rehashed videos and bulls***. Still i find these interesting.
Please comment.
And for everyone offended: I’d like to apologise my first reply.
I was out of line, and so pissed off about the fact that this site and some guys are saying that chemtrails &trailing are impossible. Sincerely, saying things like that is the most stupid thing to do. In my honest opinion.
All i have to say is: Life. It’s more than many can comprehend, myself included.
Many things impossible yesterday are possible today. Also many things thought impossible were possible all the time.
Jazzroc, i looked at video you posted, well, it’s not a very good video for anything. I saw the “black line” in that video, but it does not seem nearly the same i have on my collections.
Awesome photo about black lines.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070603.html
I’d like to thank for this.
Jan, I just have a minute or two, but will try to get everything in:
Video #1 is an airplane dumping fuel. Here is the full video with the announcement from the co-pilot that they’re going to be making an emergency landing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbTm3G–wYo
Another video of dumping fuel for an emergency landing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-ElgLd0gg4
Another video of dumping fuel for an emergency landing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlaUOEa2UGY
Another video of dumping fuel for an emergency landing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIo0RR4PjgY&feature=fvw
See, not so scary when you don’t have “CHEMTRAILS!!!” in the title eh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dumping
Video #2 has too many “examples” to comment on right now but I will direct you to the following links for all the info you need.
https://contrailscience.com/broken-contrails/
https://contrailscience.com/contrail-gaps-and-other-questions/
a) “Owning the weather 2025”
I don’t deny that the Government may be trying to figure out a way to control the weather. But, what does this have to do with contrails? Persisting and spreading contrail have been observed since the 1920’s and photographed since the 1940’s. There’s nothing sinister about contrails, they’re a naturally occurring phenomena between the airplane’s engine and the atmosphere given the right weather conditions.
b) “Main Stream Media news about “chemtrails” (god damn, i hate the word chemtrail)”
Which main stream media news are you talking about specifically? That special they had on the History Channel about “Chemtrails” and weather warfare? If so, that’s addressed here –> https://contrailscience.com/history-channel-thats-impossible-weather-warfare-chemtrails/
Suntour:
Ok. Watched vids, checked out more similiar stuff.
I have to admit, “the big picture” is more clear to me now. Well, like i said, live and learn.
Thank you for making corrections on this case.
The problem here is that that is arguably a chemtrail. It’s a trail of jet fuel, aka chemicals.
It’s just not a chemtrail as per the definition we’ve come to debate.
Glad I could help you out Jan.
MyMatesBrainwashed – You’re absolutely right in both cases, unfortunately for the chemtrailer it isn’t a government conspiracy and usually evaporates before it reaches the ground.
Theres no question about the plausibility of chemtrails.It would obviously help military objectives,communications,and electromagnetic devices,to have ionized particles delivered by jets in the atmosphere.Think about it.Look at the patents,look at the likely uses.And it IS a “conspiracy”,in the sense that it is going on without the public’s knowledge or consent.
Anonymous:
There’s no question about the plausibility of chemtrails.
There’s no question as to the gullibility of some non-scientists. For technical reasons (like there would be NO visible trail gap and anti-GW aerosols would need to be dispersed much higher in the stratosphere than planes can fly), “chemtrails” are highly implausible.
It would obviously help military objectives, communications, and electromagnetic devices, to have ionized particles delivered by jets in the atmosphere.
Would it? I think it is EASY to talk to ANYONE round the world because of telecommunication satellite. Heck, you can buy a satnav for a hundred bucks!
Ionized particles are more likely to obstruct than facilitate radio communication. What you suggest doesn’t stand to reason.
Think about it.
Dear, dear. Physician – heal thyself.
Look at the patents, look at the likely uses.
Most patents are speculation. Some have been around for a while. If you really insist they have been taken up, then you must show us something, anything, which is in some way tangible, solid, EVIDENCE for what you suggest..
And it IS a “conspiracy”, in the sense that it is going on without the public’s knowledge or consent.
Well, I, as a member of “the public” see what YOU do as a “conspiracy”. It’s an unreasonable proposition which has NO TRUTH underlying it that needlessly creates anxiety, fear, and suffering and distracts attention from REAL issues.
It certainly goes on WITHOUT my consent.
Chemtrails ARE plausible.When you look at the bernard eastlund and nicola tesla patents,the idea of dispersing ionized metallic particles into the upper atmosphere makes perfect sense.The resulting “plasma” state of the atmosphere could then be used as a platform for various military and defense purposes.
Anonymous, you have no proof, only speculation and wishful thinking.
Back to the topic of this website. What proof do you have that “chemtrails” are anything other than “persisting contrails”?
@Annon-
Sure the idea of dispersing particles into the atmosphere is vaguely plausible….
Its the implementation of that as spelled out by “chemtrail” mythology that is implausible-
It is the implausibility of metal particles surviving combustion of a jet engine. Its the implausibility of substances being added to the exhaust after combustion.
It is the logistics of a global, clandestine, spray campaign necessarily involving 1000s of planes and 1000s of people over a decade without a single whistle blower or a shred of verifiable evidence that is not plausible.
It is the implausibility of a persistent trail in the sky being “evidence” of such a program when, in fact, the trails behave NO differently then they always have- there are just more of them.
The implausibility of not a single atmospheric scientist – any where in the World- looking up at the persistent trails overhead and not being as alarmed as the ill-informed Youtube herd- if, in fact, the trails were not something other than well known persistent contrails.
It is the implausibility of taking a “sample” on the ground and claiming it is from a contrail 6 miles up in the atmosphere.
…and on and on…
Who are you people kidding? The plausibility of chemtrails has been well established for a decade,thanks to eyewitnesses,independent researchers,numerous telephotos,and insider testimony.I`m not sure about metals surviving combustion,although according to some,it is possible.But the predominant delivery method is aerosol.No one can tell me and others who have seen them that these are ordinary persisting contrails that behave as contrails always have.I`ve looked out my window in new mexico and watched airplanes layer the sky with these smoky trails that turn a clear sky into a hazy one that lasts all day and into the night.We are talking “solid” particles here,not water vapor and not natural particulate either.And not only ground samples have been taken,but I know of at least one private group that sent a small plane up into a chemtrail zone to collect in-air samples.These samples revealed the same metals found in air samples taken at ground level.
Really? And where’s the report?
You know, if there really was all this great evidence, you’d think there would be a page somewhere that listed it.
Indeed.
What do you think happens to water vapor when it is ejected into ambient air that is well below zero?
It freezes. It freezes into SOLID ice crystals. If the ambient air is saturated with ice already- as is frequently the case in the northern hemisphere- the ice crystals persist and spread…
When papers such as the one listed below describe contrail behavior identical to what you described- what do you make of it?? This paper was written 38yrs ago. There have been many more written since detailing this process. How is this any different that what you described ?
Measurements of the Growth of the Ice Budget in a Persisting Contrail
R.G. Knollenberg
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences
Volume 29, Issue 7 (October 1972)
“It is often observed that contrails spread considerably…Under favorable conditions, a lateral spread of kilometers is observed…If sufficient air traffic exists, an entire overcast of contrail cirrus may develop and persist for hours with rapid growth in the ice budget of individual contrails.”
contrail cirrus- research that phenomenon.
I dont know about that 1972 report,but the contrails I`m seeing from my home are not the result of frozen water vapor.I`m witnessing chemtrail cirrus not contrail cirrus,because its visibly much denser and occuring in conditions that wouldnt be favorable to contrail cirrus.
You know there are different type of contrail cirrus, right? Some will be denser than others, because of the weather conditions.
Did you document what you saw? Take photos? Record the time? Get the temperature and estimated humidity at cruise altitude?
Because what you are claiming is quite extraordinary. You really need to present some actual evidence if you want people to believe you.
Yes,i took some photos,and the humidity has been generally in the 30-40 % range.I still have a hard time buying that these are normal contrails.When you`ve got layer upon layer of contrails leaving dense haze like southern california smog,in an area known for its pristine skies and no industry and few motor vehicles,it makes you wonder what those jets are really doing up there.
I’d put a bet on them taking people from A to B. Not sure what motor vehicles and industry have to do with flight corridors.
Do you realize that the humidity and temperature are much different at 25,000+ feet then they are at ground level? Your ground level observations mean nothing. Have you done any research beyond prisonplanet? It certainly doesn’t seem like it.
Brainwashed,you know what i meant.I was implying that motor vehicles and industry couldnt account for the atmospheric haze i was seeing.Not in my area.The aircraft activity was the source.I could see that with my own eyes,because i`ve watched them for hours.Even on days i havent been home to watch,i can look up and see the remains of their aerosol handiwork for the day.
But that kind of thing (haze in clear sky areas like Arizona, partially caused by contrails) has been going on since at least some time before 1971, according to this article:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bIAsAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Ps0EAAAAIBAJ&pg=7123,5572241
So what’s new?
Well,i dont recall seeing criss crossing thick smoky contrails that cover the entire sky,in the early 70s.I`ve seen a few photos from the 70s with such trails,but they turned out to be fabricated.Which reminds me.There has been a deliberate effort on the part of those sponsoring the aerosol operation to try to reduce public concerns by creating the illusion that its been going on for a long time or that it is the same harmless contrail activity of yore.They`ve done this through disinformation education(often targeted at children)advertising,and even postage stamps.The idea is to create total disconcern over the phenomenon by making it appear so common and so benign that people dont even think about it anymore.The media has helped by continuing to not cover the issue,or if they do,to poke fun at believers.
Well, we’ve established from the newspaper clipping that contrails both persisted and caused haze, and covered the sky. So the only difference is that you don’t remember grids?
A grid simply required plane airways to cross. Maybe back in the 1970 they did not have many direct flights from, say, Tucson, so you’d mostly get east-west traffic over the Phoenix area, and hence no grids. Then when they started operating routes from Tucson, it would not be much at first, so you’d not notice it.
Can you remember the year when you first noticed a grid?
You know, if you are mistaken about your recollection, then there’s no need for a “disinformation” campaign to explain the contrails you see in advertising and stamps – it would simply be a normal representation of the sky.
Which photos do you think were fabricated? Was it this 1972 book:
http://picasaweb.google.com/Uncinus/CloudsOfTheWorld1972?feat=embedwebsite
I first noticed a “grid” around 1999.And they just want people to become accustomed to these images as a “normal representation of the sky”.They want people to think that a phenomenon that didnt appear until the late 90s has been going on for decades and that it is quite harmless.
GRIDS – So what you’re essentially saying is, airplanes should only fly from East Coast to West Coast and never North to South (or vice versa)? You must be either ignorant to believe that all airplanes fly in lines that do not intersect.
If there is a flight from the East Coast to the West Coast and a flight from North to South, don’t they have to intersect at some point? What’s so difficult to understand about this?
A REAL conspiracy would be if contrails never intersected.
Old photos of contrails-
No matter what evidence is provided, the “chemtrail” believers say “it’s fabricated” and that it’s “disinformation”.
Are you actually saying that the Government snuck into people’s homes and swapped books/magazines/photos for “chemtrail” photos/information while they weren’t looking? Think about the absurdity of what you’re saying.
Do you realize how foolish you look when you say things like that?
I’m not sure where the confusion is. I don’t know if you think I don’t believe you in what you say you saw or whether you think I do believe you but that I don’t think there’s anything wrong in what you saw.
Let me tell you that I believe that you saw what you saw.
The difference is that I believe what you saw is a result of normal aircraft flying through our atmosphere, not the result of those aircraft spraying something that they aren’t supposed to be spraying.
In other words, the particles released by aircraft that leave persitent trails and aircraft that leave “normal” trails are no different. The difference is how the atmosphere reacts to these particles. If you want to moan about this (it’s all pollution at the end of the day, whether the trail persists or not) then moan about ALL aircraft, not just the ones leaving persistent trails.
And ditch the car too, cos that’s polluting ‘n’ all (presuming you drive, which I have no clue if you do or you don’t. If you don’t, ignore that last comment).
Benjamin:
Then what if I were to tell you that I picnicked on Dunstable Down with my wife and two friends of ours, under a blue sky which became tic-tac-toed and then hazed all over to a silvery-grey, in 1970? (I do, by-the-way. And there were many other similar occasions later, too.)
What happens next? Am I suddenly one of “them”?
“They want people to think” – how on earth could you possibly know that?
You appear to be unable to perceive how regular shuttle flights at angles to each other will quite naturally form grid patterns in a moving humid stratosphere.
You are failing to interpret what you see correctly, which is normal for someone without any scientific training, and as a consequence you’re just plain wrong.
Study atmospheric science…
did anyone notice my post ..? O.o
I’d be interested in a de-bunk on the toilet issue fellas…. nasty shizz
* and chemtrails are a US patent so it seems, look it up
* that’d be post 26
https://contrailscience.com/chemtrail-plausibility-study/#comment-34835
dude all is one
We’re still waiting for this. If you sent it, it never arrived.
I’ve not been able to forget about smog.
Why are we so happy to accept smog in towns as caused by just cars and industry?
“they” could be putting stuff in our fuel to make this smog. Probably to kill us. But “they” are doing it on purpose.
But we could test our fuel to see what’s in it. No matter. It’s dedicated cars that are driving round and putting this toxic smog in our air. you want be able to spot these cars cos they’re the same as all the other cars, but they’re out there. Trust me.
You have been brainwashed to think it’s normal. Just cars and industry.
No doubt I could find some patents dealing with pretty toxic stuff in car fuel to help my argument.
In the mean time everyone’s being distracted by the planes.
WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, I don’t believe any of that. But it’s odd why there isn’t a smog conspiracy. I also wonder if back in the steam age there were conspiracists who worried about the clouds that trains made.
I think they are all comparative because they could all somehow contribute to our death, but they weren’t being done for that purpose. They are in fact seen as progress. Unfortunately, polluting progress.
“We’re still waiting for this. If you sent it, it never arrived.”
well don’t wait for it, I was waiting for you guys to find anything like this to de-bunk or whatever… besides it’s not about this report but about the possibility of the “toilet guys” and “pickorder” theory in relation to the chemtrail issue.. which is plausible in many ways
a foot on a flower..
the blossom also gives its fragrance to the foot that steps on it…
So…in others words…there is no report.
I have not wavered one bit in my belief in chemtrails.I dont believe in some of the more wacky conspiracy claims,but I know they are putting something man-made and probably toxic into the atmosphere.You can look up and see the trails immediately become stationary after exiting the aircraft.Water vapor contrails wouldnt do that,except in ideal conditions of cold and moisture.They certainly wouldnt in the low relative humidity conditions that chemtrails typically occur in.Stops,starts,and trail gaps are also strongly suggestive of an aerosol plume,as opposed to a vapor contrail.Chemtrails are also applied in loops and other patterns you wouldnt see in an aircraft simply going from point A to point B.They are up there specifically to “cover” the sky with this aerosol material.The stationary,lingering,and expanding nature of these trails makes that obvious.
I have not wavered one bit in my belief in chemtrails.
That doesn’t surprise me, for you have a bunch of misperceptions to do with physics and logic and aviation.
I don’t believe in some of the more wacky conspiracy claims, but I know they are putting something man-made and probably toxic into the atmosphere. You can look up and see the trails immediately become stationary after exiting the aircraft. Water vapor contrails wouldn’t do that, except in ideal conditions of cold and moisture.
Trails become “stationary” because they MUST. They are made up of energetic and individual gas molecules moving at speeds much FASTER than their speed out of the engine. As far as they are concerned, the relative motion of the plane doesn’t exist. Within a fraction of a second, ANY gas exhausted in such a manner would have come to “rest”. It’s physics, look it up. Strike one, hey?
They certainly wouldnt in the low relative humidity conditions that chemtrails typically occur in.
Chemtrails are a MYTH. CONTRAILS fade away in low-humidity conditions, remain if the surrounding air is SATURATED, and GROW if the surrounding air is SUPERSATURATED. You got that wrong too. It’s atmospheric physics. Look it up. Strike two…
Stops, starts, and trail gaps are also strongly suggestive of an aerosol plume, as opposed to a vapor contrail.
Quite the converse. If the appearance of a trail depends on the surrounding air, and we know that this surrounding air is VARIABLE, then trails too should be VARIABLE. It’s atmospheric physics. Look it up. Wrong again, strike three…
Chemtrails are also applied in loops and other patterns you wouldn’t see in an aircraft simply going from point A to point B.
But airplanes DON’T “simply go from point to point. They are routed into streams like “roads in the sky”, navigate from beacon to beacon, and are sometimes forced to circle in “holding patterns” until they find a slot for landing. Eighty-seven THOUSAND daily flights over the US really MUST cross each other (which is done at different heights). That’s Aviation. Look it up. Ooops – wrong again, and strike four.
They are up there specifically to “cover” the sky with this aerosol material. The stationary, lingering, and expanding nature of these trails makes that obvious.
They are stationary because they are (initially) gaseous, they linger (as they fall) because they cannot evaporate into already humid surroundings, they expand (as they fall) because in supersaturated conditions the surrounding air deposits upon them EXTRA ICE in an IMMENSE (up to 10,000 times) proportion. It’s atmospheric physics. Look it up.
That’s FIVE strikes now. Why do you want to play this game?
Out of interest, how are you measuring relative humidity at high altitude?
Very good,jazzroc.But there are some holes in your “strikes”.Your arguments invaribly lead back to the same conclusion,which is water vapor contrails under super-humid conditions.But,as I`ve already stated,these “chemtrails” are occuring in very low rates of relative humidity.There is no “ICE” or excessive atmospheric moisture involved in these conditions.Not only that,but the telephoto evidence clearly shows emissions coming from the aircraft itself,not from its engine exhaust.This is consistent with a man-made aerosol and not merely water vapor exhaust.
Where’s the evidence for that? Show me records five contrails in the last five years that have been shown to exist in conditions that would not support contrails.
Then, show photos of emission coming from the aircraft that are not exhaust contrails, aerodynamic contrails, APU exhaust, icing tests, mosquito spraying, firefighting, sky-writing, crop spraying, cloud seeding, or galley sinks.
Then you might have a case.
COME ON!!!! Reveal your sources. You must see that without them your claims are somewhat lacking in credibility. How are you sure the relative humidity is very low?
Whats going on is very serious,and potentially affects all life on the planet.When you`ve got large amounts of sub-micron,hygroscopic,ionized metallic particles dispersed into the atmosphere around 35-40 thousand feet,it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see the applications of use or the potential dangers.There has already been alarming evidence collected of increased soil salination and conductivity(linked to chemtrail fallout by exclusion)causing tree die-offs,among other things.Also,high metallic particulate counts at ground level,and high mold counts,even in places with very dry climates.Chemtrails are not a hoax or a myth.They are a very real and very serious matter.And people ARE getting sick breathing this stuff in.You people can believe what you want.I prefer to take the matter seriously and take steps to mitigate the effects on myself and others i know and love.
Chockie, you have absolutely zero evidence to support any of that. Do you realize that what you describe as “chemtrails” look EXACTLY like contrails?
Where is this “alarming evidence”? Please link to it.
Chemtrails and contrails do NOT look alike,because they are based on different physical principles and produced by entirely different means.Contrails are created by jet exhaust water vapor condensation,chemtrails are created by man-made aerosol compounds applied under pressure via nozzles on the trailing edge of the wings or tail.We can see this when we look at telephotos of these aircraft.The emissions are NOT coming from the engines.
Okay, so describe what the visual differences are, and (if you can) provide photos of those differences.
Heh, this should be good.
I think you’re about 5 years behind in the argument. People moved on from the nozzles quite a while ago when it became obvious what a load of rubbish those claims were.
It’s about extra stuff in the fuel now. You know, something that can’t be proved or disproved by photos. Something much more convenient to the chemtrail argument.
Catch up!!!!
At least you’ve dropped the humidity crap.
I just snapped some photos of aerosol nozzles the other day,both in flight,and on the ground at an aircraft conversion facility.So its hardly a dead issue.
Photos of nozzles? Can we see them?
Sending high frequency through the atmosphere is not far fetched in this day and age. And the government agencies added during the cold war witch focus on these new sciences should be suspect. They have made one thing clear and thats secrecy from their own people. It’s not so hard to see the relationship with adding a compound to the mix to create a better medium to work with.
Uncinus why do you put so much effort into disproving these trails people see all over the world as water vapor? If its such a no-brainer and they have always been there then it should just go away. It’s not though.
The maker(s) of this site are not objective. We are so out of balance with nature and many refuse to see it.
Anonymous, I thought they were “ELF” or Extremely Low Frequency waves that HAARP is “sending out”, not High Frequency. I think you might need to read up on your conspiracies.
Suntour,are you aware of the relationship between HAARP and the ionized metallic elements delivered by chemtrails? Are you aware that our atmosphere has been altered by chemtrails specifically to permit the use of technologies like those used by HAARP? Theres some plausibility for you.Look at the evidence provided by air,soil,rainwater samples(analyzed by electrolysis)and your own eyes,and then read the relevant patents.It all makes sense.So we know these jets arent just up there skywriting.They are purposely,deliberately and systematically altering the composition of the atmosphere.We may now see examples of their handiwork in the form of persistent overcast or haze,strange elongated cloud forms and a whiter and brighter sky,compared to years past.
chockie,
Where is your proof? So far you’ve claimed that the following exist:
Aerosol Nozzles on airplanes designed to disperse “chemtrails”
Ionized metallic elements in “chemtrails”.
Air, soil and rainwater samples that are analyzed by electrolysis that prove “chemtrails”.
But you have absolutely NO proof, NONE.
What exactly are you basing your “beliefs” on? What proof do you have, please for the umpteenth time, present some proof.
Yes, yes, yes. It’s been documented since the 1920’s that persistent overcast/haze and strange elongated cloud forms are normal persistent contrail behaviors. So what? There is more of it because there are MORE AIRPLANES in the sky.
Rather than making outlandish claims, why not just post links to photos, studies and proof? Something convinced you that this stuff exists, why can’t you produce it?
Anonymous says:
“Uncinus why do you put so much effort into disproving these trails people see all over the world as water vapor? If its such a no-brainer and they have always been there then it should just go away. It’s not though.
The maker(s) of this site are not objective. We are so out of balance with nature and many refuse to see it.”
Isn’t is amazing that more people can not see how blatantly obvious that is? The amount of effort that goes into debunking on this website is over the top! This is not a place to come to if you are simply someone that is concerned about what you are wittnessing and want to know why it is happening. This is where you come to get ridiculed, attacked, labeled and cast out if you dare to report on it and seek the truth.
Every time I look up at the sky and see the blatant violation taking place right in front of our own eyes I wonder how so many people can not allow themselves to accept what they are actually witnessing. Rarely is there a day that goes by where there are no jets in the sky spewing their poison on us. If people would just take the time to observe it they would be shocked to find out that this has been going on for years with no media coverage or public outrage. A great example of how the media is completely controlled by a higher power and how the public has been programmed to conform to the status quo to avoid the consequences of being ridiculed and labeled with terms such as ‘conspiracy theorist’ or ‘nut job’ or ‘tin foil hat brigade’. The debunkers that have been deployed to cover up this crime on society want you to believe that what you are seeing is nothing more than normal contrails consisting of water vapor and ice crystals and that this is the way that it has always been, even if your memory tells you differently. The problem with this explanation is that when a jet leaves a normal contrail, which only happens when the conditions are right, the contrail will dissipate after a short period of time. What we are seeing now are trails that form under warm and dry conditions which are not favorable to contrail formation. In addition, not only do the trails not dissipate but they continue to spread out across the sky merging together until the entire once blue sky has been blanketed with the stuff and slowly descends downward well below altitude, temperature and humidity levels required for a water vapor trail to remain persistent, yet alone even exist! So, if the spikes of contaminates to our water supply and the dramatic increase of respiratory related illnesses and all of the other anomalies that coincide with the onset of the so called persistent contrails are such a mystery to anyone, I suggest doing some investigation into the ongoing spray operation that is taking place right in front of your face. Once a rare phenomenon at best, the never dissipating long lingering ‘contrail’ is now an everyday experience while the normal contrail of the past is now the exception. Chemtrails are a reality. You can remain ignorant and apathetic in fear of stepping outside of the status quo or you can accept reality and inform people of this crime against mother earth and all humanity that is taking place on a global scale. I am amazed and disgusted at the number of people that choose to ignore it because they are afraid to step outside of their comfort zone and accept the harsh reality that they are being sprayed like insects by the very people that they trust to protect them. Most people react just as they have been programmed to by automatically labeling you a nut job and a conspiracy theorist without ever having spent 5 minutes looking up at the sky or 5 minutes of research on the subject to confirm for themselves if the reported activities are even occurring or have any validity. This purely ignorant response and arrogant attitude is no accident. It is part of a preconditioning process that has been taking place for a long time in order to allow an operation of such an enormous scale to take place right in front of our faces without the consequences public resistance. After all, no one wants to believe that it is even possible that something so horrible could be taking place on such a large scale, therefore, they choose to believe what would be accepted by the ‘norm’ rather than be associated with those that the ‘norm’ has labeled as a conspiracy theorist and part of the tin foil hat brigade who they laugh at and ridicule. This public response was predictable due to the results of studies that took place to provide evidence to back it up. One example that provided the needed data was the Asche Conformity Experiment. The details and results of the experiments are readily available for anyone who cares. For those that choose not to ignorantly conform and choose to believe in themselves without fear of what their peers might think of them by doing so, I applaud you. For those who are afraid to speak what they truly believe and would rather conform rather than be cast out, I pity you. You have become a prime example of the perfect drone that can easily be controlled and manipulated in mass numbers by a handful of your elite masters while remaining unaware that it is even happening to you. For the rest, keep looking up and searching for answers but do so wisely. There are a number of websites full of info that are actually part of the cover-up in disguise. Then there are also the obvious ‘debunking’ websites that blatantly deny any existence of any kind of chemtrail while attacking the integrity of anyone that dares to even mention it, such as this one. And here it comes.
Suntour, People are all caught up in the “buzzwords” like HAARP or what ever the word may be that associates it with a “conspiracy theory” (also a word that makes one think of all the speculation). You have made up your mind about me based on others explanation of what this phenomenon may be. I hold true to my statement about HF because HAARP stands for HIGH FREQUENCY Active Auroral Research Program. With ELF and its use for submarine communication in the past did have a bad effect on wales. Our military leaders in the USA do things like this because they have the insanity natives speak about. Its evil caused by greed, hate, and ignorance. The Monkey Syndrome or the Asch effect explain how most accept this.
Aerosol scattering is very plausible no matter what this alleged Boeing engineer says.
Has anyone read the earlier comments with the banter involving ‘jan’?
how ridiculous was that! Reformed another one!
A prime example of what this site is all about. Need I say more? No, but I must. ‘Chemtard’? Wow! Thats some impressive name calling. I’ll bet you can also shoot a pretty mean spitwad too, huh bubba. If I didn’t know better I might think you are trying to hurt my feelings. Now play nice or I’m gonna tell mommy.
Wow kgb we must be on the same frequency. I read your comment and agree 100% we even used alike terminology. I rarely comment but when I search this site always gets me. Great pics though.
Anonymous,
This site was designed to get to you. It will only if you let it. I view it as a bad comic strip. Its full of jokes, just not very funny. Insulting would be a better word. Keep looking up.
Kgb and anonymous:
Thanks for all the assertions. I too can make them, but I’ve made them before, so I shan’t make them here. But when I DO make them – I back them up with EVIDENCE. Evidence such as the LINK “Contrails-to Cirrus” provided in the left-hand column here, which makes NONSENSE of your claim that trails are somehow “different”.
It’s up to you to disprove that link AND provide EVIDENCE supporting your highly questionable wheezes. Before you write…
You KNOW this and yet you still make false, insulting, slanderous, and possibly criminal assertions.
Just how DO you reconcile that with your “sense of honor”?
kgb said:
See, there’s your problem. Contrails DO sometime persist and spread over the sky. It even says so in the Encyclopedia.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/623212/vapour-trail
Maybe we should focus on this ONE misconception. Could you address this? Feel free to asume I am working for the CIA, to avoid distractions. Just address why what you say is directly contradicted by the encyclopedia?
Not true- there HAS been media coverage- the Discovery Channel did a whole show- History Channel as well- even Jesse Ventura….lots of newspaper articles….Perhaps it gets no real traction because beyond pure speculation the argument has no substance?
How is getting labeled as ‘conspiracy theorist’ any different than YOU labeling someone who disagrees with you as a “debunker”- Believers try to use it as a derogatory term in order to validate their beliefs- when in fact it is just someone who disagrees with you and your assertions and speculation. Why the double standard?
BUT THIS STATEMENT IS FALSE!!! WRONG!! Believers who state this are either ignorant or lying….Contrails do dissipate rapidly- BUT “normal” contrails have ALWAYS had the ability to persist and spread and cover the sky in a haze… How can you genuinely look at ALL the data on this website alone and continue to insist that? If you think contrails can’t behave that way then why haven’t you looked at the science behind contrail formation to understand if that is really true. I do not see how anyone can legitimately look at all the available evidence- from 60 years of scientific research, to photographs, news reports, to people’s memories and continue to assert that contrails did not persist before. That dumbfounds me. Sorry, but YOUR memory is NOT good enough- it is NOT infallible and plenty of people DO remember differently.
Moreover, the physics that dictates the behavior of contrails is irrefutable- it is FACT. It has been studied in great detail in the atmosphere and replicated in the lab. Do the math. Many others have.
How do you know this? Where is the evidence? Do you take atmospheric readings at 30k feet every-time you see a persistent contrail? Seriously- people make these claims all the time but never actually have any verifiable proof that this is the case. Not one “chemtrail” I have ever seen on Youtube looks even remotely like a trail that shouldn’t be there. Not one “chemtrail” video on youtube ever even addresses what the ambient atmospheric conditions at trail level at the time of filming. People claim they know what they see in the sky without even a basic understanding of atmospheric physics and then expect people to take them seriously.
Contrails have ALWAYS been able to spread out – for miles…and hours- Its as if you do not WANT to know differently. When there are scientific papers written 30, 40 years ago detailing this very process- why do you disregard it? DO you even know they exist? why not? I do not understand the continued blind adherence to this myth that “normal” contrails cannot persist and spread and never have. That is undeniably, irrefutably wrong.
What do you base this statement on? Your memory? Not good enough….Have YOU spent more than 5 minutes researching the science behind contrail formation and persistence? clearly not. Persistent contrails were referred to as “frequent” and “common” 30 years ago…that YOU choose to remain ignorant of this fact is not proof that “chemtrails” exist.
That would be funny if it wasn’t so hypocritical…you try to disparage any one who disagrees with you as a “debunker”, attacking their credibility as a “paid disinfo shill” if they dare to show you facts that contradict your beliefs…whats the deal with that?
(Moreover, Uncinus never attacks anyone’s credibility…or insults anyone- I try not but I can only stand hypocrisy and ignorance for so long…)
If you believe contrails can’t persist and spread and never have, YOU ARE WRONG…and thus all your assertions and conclusions about what you think you see in the sky are based on a false belief.
Debunk that.
What is this research paper from 1972 referring to?? Please explain.
Measurements of the Growth of the Ice Budget in a Persisting Contrail
R.G. Knollenberg
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences
Volume 29, Issue 7 (October 1972)
“It is often observed that contrails spread considerably…Under favorable conditions, a lateral spread of kilometers is observed…If sufficient air traffic exists, an entire overcast of contrail cirrus may develop and persist for hours with rapid growth in the ice budget of individual contrails.”
The statement I made was a little slanderous but wasn’t false. Criminal hardly and if your insulted then you have mixed up pride and honor. Black hole logic via your proof ruler mind schema. This site offers a one sided view.
Nice pictures though.
“Anonymous”, would you mind picking a name, as there can be multiple anonymous commenters, and it sometimes gets confusing who is who. Any random name is fine.
Uncinus :
I’ve watched your very complete website for the past + year.
I don’t have anything negitive to argue with your coverage of the Chemtrailers.
It’s all top notch work.
And this is the first time I’ve joined any discussion.
Are you planning to attend the Geoengineering Seminar in San Diego next Saturday the 20th ? I’ll be there. http://aaas.confex.com/aaas/2010/webprogram/Session1315.html
http://www.aaas.org/meetings/
No I’ll not be going – not really my type of thing. I’m really only interested in contrails. it would be interesting if they decide to do these aerosol sprayings in the future – would it create trails like contrails?
Personally I’m more in favor of the seeding of marine clouds. Much more easily reversible if things go wrong.
Hopefully though we’ll have a while before such measures are necessary, if ever.
Ok
Well that’s too bad .
There will be tons of Chem-Tards their trying to blame the global warming hoax on
these scientist. And a spraying program that doesn’t exist.
I’m a member of A&E911truth.org A thousand plus Engineering professionals members calling for a new invesigation for the victims of the 911 tragedy and coverup.
There is another group i’m sometimes involved with in LA for 911 truth , that seems to have ever other member brainwashed and into the chemtrail conspiracy.
That’s how i got involved. Too debunk them.
Even though i believe the events of 911 needs more further looking into.
I don’t believe all other conspiracies dished up by the dozen That some do.
The real conspiracy is the bankers running our government at this time.
That’s off topic for this website But is Important none the less.
Back to Debunking Chem-trailers
interesting site, although the attacks on those you refer to as “chemtards”..discredits those who claim there is no problem. more than a few posts have asserted that the idea and dissemination of claims for chemtrails began in 1997. i would argue that. emphatically. concert-goers at woodstock accused the powers that be of seeding the clouds to cause the heavy rains. this assertion has been around alot longer than the public version of the internet. as to the conspiratorial nature of this issue or any other: that is a derogatory, divisive and dismissive claim. it doesn’t create dialogue, it creates a mob; everyone against the “chemtards” in this case. considering how often governments acts first, and legislate later, it wouldn’t be suprise me in the least if some agency a bit down the line admits to stratospheric geoengineering. it is actually on the table at the moment, and is supported by many scientists as a possible means to mitigate climate change. using sulfates in chemtrails, that is. but as i said prior, governments have a tendency to act first and legislate later. i cannot dispute climate change: that would be beyond absurd in my opinion. but i do not think it is a sufficient explanation for persistant contrails that change into clouds, and alter other cloud formations. i bet not many remember that persistant and cloud forming contrails have been claimed to be non-existent in the recent past. that used to be the argument: you are imagining this, it isn’t real..now it is said that contrails have always been that way. granted, it is a bit hard to come by such past commentary from the scientific community as everyone is claiming that it is entirely possible to have a whole sky of formations that are man-made as a result of chemtrails. this is such an amazing change of rhetoric-reminds me of the “ministry of truth” in orwell’s 1984. cut out the parts you don’t like and never refer to the parts you don’t want remembered ever again. we do it all the time; as individuals and as countries. individuals do it to change their lives, and societies do it for many reasons. history is written by the winners. and because that is so, alternative views are not taught, entertained or otherwise respected in the mainstream. those views that run counter to the “accepted” version, will always be considered part of the fringe..that is until they are proven. while i feel it essential that i do keep an open mind, and be willing to consider other perspectives, i do not feel that you have adequately made your case..although i will come back and continue to read; it is well worth my while, but consider this as well: it would be in the best interests of those of you here that do not believe in intentional contrails(chemtrails,) to afford the same courtesy of consideration that you have been shown by those who believe differently. if not that, then at least be well-mannered enough to not resort to insults, marginalization and bullying in order to get your point across: it might work with some of your viewers, but it will just further the divide for others who are just trying to understand what the hell is going on, and they will cease to listen or return to your site. and then you are left to preach only to the choir.