Some people believe that the government is spraying something into the air, and this creates unsual looking contrails. They call these “chemtrails”. Now, there is no real evidence that “chemtrails” are real, but there are several myths on the internet about “chemtrails”. All these myths can very easily be shown to be false, and I’ve gathered the most popular myths here as a little time-saver for the person who has encountered “chemtrails” for the first time.
Myth #1 – Normal contrails don’t last very long, but “chemtrails” last for hours and sometimes spread out.
False – Contrails fade away, or persist, or even spread out to cover the sky, depending on the weather conditions. you can confirm this by looking in an encyclopedia. such as the Encyclopædia Britannica
[Contrails] may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.
For more info on this myth, read “Persisting and Spreading contrails”
Myth #2 – Contrails have been observed to persist and spread when the humidity was too low, so they must be “chemtrails”
False – Nobody has ever measured low humidity within a persisting contrail. The fact is it is very difficult to measure humidity in a specific region at a specific altitude, at a given time, the best you can do is make a rough prediction. Measurements are made by weather balloons at just a few stations that average 235 miles apart, at 12 hour intervals, and then local predictions are extrapolated from this. The weather balloons can drift as much as 100 miles in their ascent, so you never know where the measurements are coming from. Humidity can vary by as much as 80% in a 12 hour period, and vary by similar amount over just a few miles. The fact that the contrail is spreading is actually a far more accurate indicator of high humidity than the available humidity predictions. NASAs own experiments (right) show persisting contrails over a large range of calculated humidities, even down to 10%.
Myth #3 – Long lasting contrails have appeared in “parallel lines”, “grid” and “X” formations, which are not normal, so must be “chemtrails.
False. Well, the last bit is false. Yes, contrails make all kinds of patterns in the sky, simply because there are a lot of planes flying overhead, and they fly in all directions. This is pretty much a function of where you live, and the prevailing winds. For example, if you live the Willamette Valley, Oregon, the overflying planes are nearly all North/South, so you’ll get parallel lines. If you live live in more central place, like North Texas, you’ll get planes flying overhead in every direction, so you will get “X” patterns (and “H” and “grids”). If there’s enough wind, and the trails last long enough, then the grid might spread out to cover the sky.
Myth #4 – A bill to ban chemtrails was introduced into congress by Dennis Kucinich, but quickly had chemtrails edited out.
False – HR 2977 was written by a bunch of UFO enthusiasts intent on exposing a conspiracy to suppress alien technology. Dennis Kucinich did not write the bill, he not know what chemtrails were, and when he found out, he distanced himself from that language. The bill was re-written in order that it might pass. See the full article: Kucinich, Chemtrails and HR 2977.
Myth #5 – Public Law 105-85 gives the military permission to experiment with chemical and biological weapons on humans, without their consent
False – 105-85, Sec. 1078, actually prevents experiments except for peaceful purposes, and those can only be performed if informed consent is obtained from each test subject. It’s basically the same procedure as for human drug trials.
SUMMARY
Those myths are really the basis of the “chemtrail” conspiracy theory. There is more, of course, like the halos and sun-dogs that you sometimes see (normal atmospheric optical effects), the dark lines (shadows of varying types), the stuff on the ground (unconnected). But these things really get to the heart of 99% of the chemtrail argument. After they are dispensed with, the theory holds about as much water as alien mind-control implants.
Let me know if you’ve got something else you’d like investigating, and I might add it here.
Just leave a comment below.
So if there have been both “chemtrails” and “contrails” since the 1950s, how can you tell the difference?
And what “admitted programs”? Admitted chemtrail programs? Admitted high altitude spraying programs that look like contrails? What?
Most purveyors of the “chemtrail” myth suggest that they started about 10-12 years ago…
If they have been happening for over 50 years…then why all the cries about ” skies were not like this when I was younger” or “I do not remember persistent contrails when I was a kid” theme…
You cannot have it both ways…
Indeed, please reference a “currently admitted” spraying operation that results in persistent contrails that spread out into cirrus sheets.
???
…and in the face of logic and facts- you resort to insults…typical.
twit indeed.
This website is complete propaganda to try to protect the people that are trying to kill everyone… what a bunch of crap!
Just curious…
…if they are trying to kill “everyone”…does that include themselves?? How do they protect themselves from the deadly spray?
Let me ask you something: Why do you run your site anonymously? Why is your domain registered through DomainsByProxy ?
How about this: If you start whistleblowing, i offer to pay you FIVE TIMES as much as whatever institution in the world has led you to run this site!
So, what do you think?
You see, Sir, all of your statements made, and certainly you will explain this by saying you just act like a grown-up, are written down with such a strong lack of any emotion. And you turn out to show extensive evasive behaviour when being confronted with some more startling things, such as in the correspondence i found on just another of these pages of yours:
Some poster: ” … I came upon this just recently when I began researching information regarding Morgellons …”
You: “I try to stick to contrail science …”
I may be wrong but does this not look pretty “evasive” ?
Wonderfully you implicate the presence of SCIENCE in your doings, parallely you debunk the people who believe in the chemtrail issue, while in fact the evidence shown to prove it is of no lesser value than yours.
Also noticable is a strong amount of opinion-forcing statements – you seem to subconsciously want to tell the reader what to believe.
You asked for evidence. “One scrap of” … it. But did it occur to you, that all the evidence there is and was, has been and would just be debunked by your winker-blinker nature of thinking? There are too many people on this planet who will just not believe even what they see with their own eyes, as long as it is not “confirmed” by some major media outlet.
If i were a neutral reader, i would leave this site without considering the issue either proven nor disproven. But for sure i would consider the site itself to be some sort of disinformation campaign, for it is way too professionally run to be just a side-project of somebody who invests his personal belief and energy into topics such as chemtrails.
Closing, i must say that it is always good to question things. It is our obligation as it is our right to be and remain critical towards information out there, specifically since the days of the internet arose. If this page’s author would not have made it his personal goal to modify certain belief systems, he would have left it open for the reader and observer to form his opinion. Instead, he tries to force a prepared one on them.
Question Authority!
Chemtrails may even be a hoax, but that does not explain all the other issues this world was facing, has to face and will be facing, that always leads back to corruption, greed and mechanism – scientific, emotionless thinking and virtual concepts alike.
Your’s sincerly,
Watch, the ZEITGEIST
Well, I’m highly flattered that you think this site is “way too professionally run”, and I’d be happy if it were somehow paying the bills, but as I’ve said many times – nobody pays me to do this. It’s just a little hobby site. It’s anonymous because I value my privacy and don’t want to be posting my name and address on the internet.
I think you misunderstand me though – I’m not trying to force a belief on anyone, quite the contrary in fact. I’m trying to get people to question their beliefs, to ask if they really have enough evidence to believe that what they are seeing are something other than normal contrails.
I provide evidence that indicates that “chemtrails” are contrails, and I invite evidence to show that it is not. I also discuss what has been presented as “pro-chemtrail” evidence, and usually find errors in it (like with the barium measurements). I invite people to examine my evidence, and to find fault in that, people generally don’t take me up on it.
Consider: if you are willing to pay me five times my salary to get to my supposed puppet-masters, then does that not indicate a very strong belief in a conspiracy on your part? Could it be that you are pre-supposing things here?
Following from your exchange with “Watch” – when I proposed a scientific method to measure the content of contrails/chemtrails a few days ago (remember?) you basically implied “what is the point of doing that when all evidence points to chemtrails not existing” and then started talking about some strange algal bloom theory of your own from the back of ships! That doesn’t really tie-in with your statement above –
“I provide evidence that indicates that “chemtrails” are contrails, and I invite evidence to show that it is not.”
I must admit that a totally anonymous site is also very off putting, particularly when tied to your YouTube debunking name Epoxynous. Does it really hurt to tell people your first name? Besides, you are supporting contrails, so unless there are agents working against dis-info agents what are you worrying about?
My reasons for being anonymous are purely personal.
Let me ask you a question Nik, why do you think I came up with the “cruise-trails” theory? What purpose does it serve?
Loneliness and none.
Seriously Nik, you can’t see what the cruise-trails theory illustrates?
Seriously, no I can’t but glad you can take a joke!
Anyone can make up a theory I agree but what is happening here is different. It might be just because contrails/chemtrails are so clearly visible and therefore easy to relate to, however I think there is more to it than this.
I sincerely hope not but I have learnt so much about this world that I do not like anymore, therefore I cannot just eliminate this theory. I will continue to listen to your views and continue my own research. What I have noticed though is that the truth will always surface in the end, so time will tell.
…its always interesting to see people question uncinus’ motives, tell him he is part of the conspiracy…and rip on him for doing it anomalously…
…all the while commenting under annomous monikers themselves…
Hey Watch! why not post your name and address for us so we can know you are??
Unicinus does do an admirable job being polite, reasonable and courteous…all the while being the subject of personal attacks and insults…
Its not evasive to stick to topics that one is informed on rather than speak to that which your knowledge is not adequate…This site is about Contrails…not Morgellons…
You said: “Also noticable (sic) is a strong amount of opinion-forcing statements – you seem to subconsciously want to tell the reader what to believe.”
This is a forum…it is designed for the discussion of contrails and their behavior and as such personal opinions are bound to play a role…How is that any different then a YouTube video proclaiming “proof” of “chemtrails” ??
to me- this phrase is key: “It is our obligation as it is our right to be and remain critical towards information out there”
this is exactly why this site is needed…How many Youtube videos are there showing “proof” of “chemtrails”- how many websites are there yelling about the existence of “chemtrails”?
…and by contrast how many websites are there about contrails? or videos showing contrails??
…So many Believers of “chemtrails” who already have their minds made up and refuse to believe any other possibility….they fester amongst themselves and reinforce each other with photos of “chemtrails” and reports of “spraying” without bothering to truly think critically or objectively and instead cling to false notions and beliefs based on ignorance of the facts…saying only that it must be “disinfo” or anyone who speaks against “chemtrails” must be part of the problem…
The fact is the vast majority of “chemtrail” believers are utterly ignorant of true contrail behavior and believe that any trail that doesn’t dissipate in a few seconds or so is a “chemtrail” . That simply is not the case…not even close…
…and yet they continue to hurl insults at anyone who questions their beliefs…
What a bunch of hypocrites.
Cruisetrails right now are the equivalent of chemtrails just before the Art Bell show popularized them. You might imagine that many people have stood at the back of a cruise ship and looked at the huge white trail that it leaves, stretching out as far as the eye can see, and they might even have wondered why it lasts so long, or what it was made of.
Then maybe Art Bell or Jeff Rense does a show on cruisetrails. He notes that you don’t see these trails behind tankers or container ships. You don’t see any old photos of cruise trails – all the old ships just left nice clean V-shaped wakes. He notes the huge recent increase in sickness on-board cruise ships. Supposedly it’s “norovirus” – but why did this only just start in recent years, at the same time as people started noticing the cruisetrails?
So Art does this show, thousands of people hear it. They note that YES, they were on a cruise, they noticed the long white trail, and they were sick! Now they feel tired all the time! Then other stuff starts popping up – people find papers on government sites that discuss putting iron in the ocean to combat global warming. People note the that symptoms of iron overdose are VERY SIMILAR to the symptoms of norovirus. Two and two are put together. It all makes perfect sense.
The evidence for cruisetrails is practically as good as the evidence for chemtrails. The only difference is that the chemtrail theory has been around a bit longer, and received some publicity.
I would not be at all surprised if the cruisetrail theory catches on. You read it here first!
You know, the fact that I actually invented the cruisetrail theory just now is no obstacle to it catching on and spreading. When people point to this site, and this comment, as the origin of the theory, then people will just say this comment was preemptive disinformation, intended to discredit the anti-cruisetrail movement before it had even started. And that this paragraph is double-plus-disinformation, just trying to confuse people.
Using Universal Law 945; Protocol 343 Part 12, please confirm – Do you work for a government agency in a role of deliberately attempting to prevent human evolution to a higher state of consciousness?
Sorry to pull rank but I used to be doing a similar role to you but the Ashtar Command managed to save me and wake me up.
Unicus said>>
“I provide evidence that indicates that “chemtrails” are contrails, and I invite evidence to show that it is not. I also discuss what has been presented as “pro-chemtrail” evidence, and usually find errors in it (like with the barium measurements). I invite people to examine my evidence, and to find fault in that, people generally don’t take me up on it.”
Yep you sure do and you are part of the clan that has harrassed me to the point where I have worked hand in hand with the Russian and Chinese Militaries since 2005. Your thread about radative forcing is completely misleading. Contrails reflect 30% of incoming radation, but IR Satellite evidence points to an absorption of 30-40% of incoming solar radation. Ground surface observation from bouys and land stations have confirmed this amount as the contrails pass over the solar panels that detect wattage from the sun.
Maybe you would like to explain to the audience what happens if an artifical surface that absorbed 30-40% of the incoming solar radation between 20 and 30k feet would do the temperatures at the level of that atmosphere.
PV=nRT.
Next you need to explain what happens with that extra heat. What happens to the jet stream winds at those levels in the atmosphere. Should velocity and direction.
I have $10,000,000 your wrong about your asumptions or that you lack the Atmospheric Physics degree or mathematical skills to answer what I’ve asked you…because you know your lying game is OVER when you do.
Hi weatherman714, that sounds interesting. Can you provide some references that clarify what exactly you are talking about? You say contrails reflect 30% of radiation and absorb 30-40% (and presumably transmit 30-40%)?
My point is this. If they were ordinary Contrails they would reflect 30-40% of incoming solar radation. The one’s I’ve deemed as Chemtrails absorb 30-40% of incoming radation. My challenge to you is to calculate the net temperature increase from chemtrails say at 25,000 feet sprayed during the day time and how that would impact the winds at that level of the atmosphere both in direction and velocity.
Why don’t you just show me your calculations, and I can check them? No sense in reinventing the wheel.
And how did you arrive at the 30-40% figure?
We both know your afraid to answer my question. Why? Because the numbers you came up with are the same that I came up with and without a shadow of a doubt prove what I say is true. Which means the entire foundation for this website becomes a myth within itself and exposes the possiblity that this is nothing but a Black Psych-US Military operation to confuse average americans into believing that they are just contrails.
Speaking of Black Ops, maybe we should investigate why that Laurel Police Car license place MG 3190 state of MD, has been tailing me home from work over the past 3 days. Why when I opened my mail on yahoo today news headlines from 8/22/08 appeared on my welcome screen. Are you guys interested in my meteorological analysis of Tropical Storm Fay? All of these little silent games you guys play and I’m not suppose to notice. Unfortunately there’s a trail mile long of viruses, NSA phone calls, illegal stalking with government vehicles. I’d love to get on National TV and tell the American Public my story. Explain to them that some of the economic turmoil they are experiencing is from the US Militaries and Govt’s harrasing of one the countries brightest scientists. It would make you look like fools in the eyes of other World Powers and would destory whatever remaining honesty,integrity, and confidence that exists for the US Govt around the world.
Well, no, I’ve not done any calculations, so I don’t have any numbers. I was waiting for you to post yours so I could check them, which is a much more efficient way of working.
Please post your calculations, results, and conclusions.
Weatherman(?)-
Persistent contrails vary in depth and width a great deal- and thats not even mentioning the variability in ice crystal formation….wouldn’t those variables create a wide range of radiative properties??
Contrail radiative properties differ from plane to plane, altitude to altitude, ambient conditions to ambient conditions, nigh to day, winter to summer and so on….
Did you factor all these variables into your calculations?? Please share them…..
Nothing you say relates to the In Situ studies done, such as this:
http://tinyurl.com/3lc9ry
or this:
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1834780
or this:
http://tinyurl.com/4766cm
or this:
http://tinyurl.com/4ph632
UNCUNIS:
Come on mate…what is this shit?
Now you are REALLY reaching.
In Esperance, Western Australia, we just happen to have a Weather Station IN town.
R.H with contrail activity is as low as 25-30%…UNHEARD of.
Also, by taking a whole range of data from multiple sites you can get a good indication of R.H at altitude over a wide area.
My friend, i think it’s GREAT what you have done in this collection of photo’s but looking at your CONSTANT “line” I believe you are more than just a “spontaneous” debunker.
Modern aircraft travel has been around for a long time. Even with the increase in air travel you cannot explain how it is even EXPERIENCED PILOTS are stating they NEVER saw so many heavy contrail activity days in their lives as we have today.
Whether it is simple “particulate sowing” in the upper atmosphere to reflect sunlight, the release of ??????, the release of particulates associated with HAARP type experiments or who knows what…to state so EMPHATICALLY that what you see is just “normal” makes you far more of a kook than any of us.
Not unheard of at all, in fact it happens all the time. I refer you to the link and the graph in Myth #2, above.
When say that RH is hard to measure, I’m not just making it up. Contrail scientists agree:
http://www.globe.gov/boulder2004docs/chambers_paper_contrails_2004.pdf
http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/Duda_Minnis.I.JAMC.08.pdf
http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/contrail_forecast/contrail_prediction.html
http://www.atmos-chem-phys-discuss.net/8/18385/2008/acpd-8-18385-2008-print.pdf
Let me first say how enjoyable it has been to read this thread. (I always “save it up” for a while to get myself an exciting hour about once a month!)
In my experience, consistently and without fail, ANY chemtrailer assertion is quite definitively the reverse of the truth, and if it contains any additional detail, those details themselves normally supply an in-built rebuttal to the assertion. This I quite enjoy.
BRYANSAIL: “A fun example of the government saying a chemical is o.k. would be their treatment of the jetfuel additive JP-8. There is a great deal of double speak and deflection seen with regards to its use.”
The “there is Ethylene Dibromide in JP8” assertion came to my attention recently. (I was puzzled because EDB used to be used in high-octane gasoline to prevent the clogging of automobile engine cylinder heads. But I can see that a small amount of chemtrailer confabulation could easily have brought this about.)
JP-8 is, of course, a jet fuel, and Bryansail was thinking of EDB. So here’s my interchange (taken from the “Who else is breathing chemtrails” thread, under “Goodbye Blue Skies” at Conspiracy Central Forums.
NIK: “JP8 jet fuel is laced with Ethylene Dibromide (EDB), a chemical pesticide banned by the EPA as a definite carcinogen and chemical toxin”.
MYSELF: “EDB was used as an anti-knock compound in petrol. In that context, harmless, unless you’ve been a technician wandering around inside a storage tank. (Been there.) It isn’t used in JP8. There’s no need for it. Pre-ignition doesn’t occur in gas turbines. In both cases, once combusted, it becomes bromine gas, which will become dilute hydrobromic acid, which will slake itself on the first base it meets (lead oxide). I know these facts, but not how to prove it to you. What does WIKI say?
WIKI:
MYSELF: “It seems to me that the last use mentioned (cooking stoves) precludes the idea that JP8 might have EDB in it. What do you think?”
Hi,
There is too much lies here… I talk about you particularly Uncinus, and i think :
a/ You are stupid
b/ You are stupid disinfo agent
Chemical spraying is a reality, a dark one. You can’t imagine the joy to see these bastards planes flying in formation at dawn covering my blue sky with this white shit…
Oh yeah, it’s normal that one day, there is no plane in the sky above my city, and the next day, there is 20 white unmarked planes flying in formation, spraying like hell. And even these “chemtrails days” i can see some plane at high altitude with no trail at all flying near a gigantic chemtrail cloud (no more spray stock in the tanker ?).
And i will not talk about the planes that do “the spray on-off”, letting a hole in the chemtrail line. You surely have an explanation lol. Or when the plane suddenly stop spraying without any logical reason.
And it’s normal that planes fly at few meters from others, crossing etc, it’s not dangerous, and if you go to holydays and you see another plane flying 20 meters of yours, you’ll just think that’s usual.
I’ve bought expensive things just to watch them closely, and it confirms what i thought. They are not commercial planes.
So fuck you dear disinfo agent.
JohnConnor, you might want to consider just how much air traffic you would expect on a daily basis over your city, including international flights. They are just a LOT harder to see when they don’t leave contrails, but they are still there.
As for “20 white unmarked planes flying in formation”, that sounds very interesting, and I’d like to see a photo or video of it. How many times has that happened?
Well, Having read all of the above I think it is extremely strange how a normal person (as in me) would dedicate so much of their time to debunking chemtrails. but they they do say fact is stranger than fiction .Its also very strange that they have so much information on the matter,(science) but lets face it science changes over time so what was believe once is not now etc. plus generally money funds science and that means its not always directed for the common good as seen in pharms industry.
Bottom line is whether we are being sprayed with jet fuel, pest control chemicals etc it is not right!! and therefor we shall not support it or the people that do it. We are not daft – human kind is hmmm KIND, sadly money and power do not breed KINDNESS, as we all know, so its very clear that whatever they are spraying its not for the common good. But then nothing much related to our society, money or power is for the common good. its not rocket science its called common sense.
I know food is contaminated, water is contaminated so give me one good reason why the sky would not be contaminated……….. the science is not what matters ( unless of course your world is ruled by science -mine is rulled by all the things related tobeing a human being that science cant explain) its the whole picture that people like me are begining to see. Its good to see your scientific view however but it makes me worry that by focusing so much detail we might actually miss whats really going on!!!!!
Sarah, it does not take much time. Far less than, say, watching General Hospital which millions of people do. You don’t think they are strange do you?
The problem is that there no evidence of any deliberate spraying. Contrails are just the frozen water from jet exhaust, as seen in this 1944 film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOrez6q7WM
Sarah King:
Breathtaking.
Don’t look at the details, accept the ruling of your life ONLY by the personal explanations of others or yourself, and you begin to see – paranoia, apophenia (thanks, Uncinus), conspiracy, and murder.
Meanwhile you libel and slander innocents, and distract from scientific research into respiratory diseases, listing just two of the ways you are doing harm.
Seeing as Science IS the study of “what’s really going on”, how can you possibly HIT “what’s really going on”?
Bravo. I applaud your patience in continuing to respond to chemtrail conspiracy believers in a logical and gentle manner. I would like to offer my personal observations.
While flying throughout the world as a US Navy pilot for over 20 years, I have seen many contrails of all shapes and sizes and have been totally satisfied with the meteorological explanation that they are primarily frozen water particles. I have always been amazed that anyone could actually believe that they were something else.
Yes, I have seen many at the same time, crisscrossing the sky at different altitudes and in different widths. I watched them originate from the engine exhaust and disperse as the upper level winds spread them throughout the layer into a cirrus cloud appearance. I have never seen anything which I could interpret as a spraying or chem trail dispersion operation in over 4500 hundred hours of flight time.
I believe that participating in an elementary class in meteorology would go a long way to educating many of your dissenters. There they would learn that air is a fluid and that temperature, pressure, humidity and winds aloft change dramatically with altitude. Each layer can have significantly different conditions, some of which are conducive to the production of contrails (condensation trails) and some not.
I have refueled at most military bases but I have never seen any pumping equipment (other than fuel pits, see JazzRoc comments above regarding JP-5 and JP-8) which would be capable of moving the amount of material which must be required to logistically support this huge (and secretly funded and supplied) effort. Nor, have I have never seen any of the ‘white sprayer planes’ at any base which I visited.
Can you imagine how many personnel a secret, nationwide (or is worldwide?) chemical spraying operation would entail? Do your dissenters really believe that, given more than a handful of these personnel, that no one has ever broken the ‘secret security’ and spoke to a responsible reporter or congressional leader about this ‘secret operation’ because they had health concerns for their relatives upon whom this chemical application was being rained? Do you really thing that military/governmental security is really that tight?
Do your dissenters really believe that there is no financial oversight in the military and federal government where someone (e.g., GAO) would notice the huge costs associated with this operation and question it’s purpose?
Thank you for providing a basis for truth in this paranoid discussion area. I will bookmark it and refer others to it when it the ‘chem trail’ issue comes up in conversation.
I now await the diatribe from the opposition.
Thank for you comments,the good thing about this website is it encourages you to research further and its very interesting its good to read both sides.
Perhaps its not something such as “killing people” but still its clear that we do not have the whole picture and it may harm many, most artifical things do.
http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/shieldproject.html
Sarah, “artificial” things are not automatically by their nature harmful. Consider that modern science and medicine is responsible for a huge extension in lifespan, and a huge expansion of the population. Human life is sustained on this planet by highly artificial means.
Contrails are artificial. They are the frozen water vapor from aircraft exhaust. But their harm seems limited to very minor weather changes (uncertain exactly what though), an increase in come types of cloud cover, and the normal pollution inherent in burning fossil fuels.
Remove infant mortality and we are living an average of 10 years less. More idiotic disinfo.
@ Vic,
Come on out to PDX and watch the line abreast formations 3 and 4 wide 1/2 a klick apart 3500m covering the sky 6 days a week. They give them Sunday off though. All on NO REPORTED FLIGHT PATHS. LET ALONE HISTORIC ONES. Contrails that fall to the ground in wisps. Total joke to state that programs are no in place.
What do you mean “we are living an average of 10 years less” – how did you come up with that figure?
Do you have a photo or video of this PDX activity? And how did you measure the altitude?
AS-
“wisps”…sounds like falling ice crystals…mare’s tails…
if they fall to the ground then it should be easy to get a sample.
Anyone who is observant and has been watching the skies know that “chemtrails” are REAL…I don’t care what you say, I observe them with my own eyes nearly daily….Do normal commercial planes make 90 degree climbs and dives in the middle of the sky? Are commercial planes all white or all red with no windows? Do Commercial planes fly right next to each other, or on top of each other…and I don’t care about the “altitude”, planes are not supposed to be within miles of each other. Don’t try to hide from what your eyes are telling you people…this site is a bunch of government Baloney!
Hi NotaFool, I think you are misinterpreting what you are seeing. Planes can fly very close if they have vertical separation of just 1000 feet. So it looks like they are right next to each other.
And most planes DO look white from the ground, and no, you can’t see their windows from the ground – especially when they are 30,000 feet.
Maybe you have some photos or video that show what you are seeing. I’m not sure what you mean by “90 degree climbs and dives in the middle of the sky”, but it sounds a bit odd.
NotaFool-
How can you tell if a plane has windows from 3-10 (or more) miles away?
…and how exactly is a plane’s flight path or behavior evidence that contrails that persist and spread out are really “chemtrails” being deliberately sprayed??
I can’t believe this blog is still going.
The Chemtrails meanwhile.. are getting to be more and thicker, and more brazen. I watch them daily.. in formation.. messing up our beutiful blue skies. We had samples analyzed.. samples I wiped off my car in the morning. Aluminum and Barium are among the many Chems in that sample. What happens to our watersupply and the crops?
The bees are already dead… and more and more people are coming down w. chronic bronchial inflammations.
I finally got an answer from the FAA hotline.. please everyone.. write to them too, who knows, it might help.
In short.. they told me.. it’s CONTRAILS ! I wrote back and gave them more details about what I observe daily.. no answer yet.
Please help all of us and write them… they do answer.. even though.. not w. the truth. But if we keep trying, maybe something good will come of it ?!
Hi Addie. I think the FAA is correct there – what you are seeing are actually contrails – of at least something that looks and behaves exactly like a contrail.
A sample you wipe off your car is not a sample of a contrail – it’s a sample of airborne dust and pollution.
Did you actually have that analyzed? Can you post the exact results?
hi Unic, no, he won’t hand it to me to put online.. sorry.
They are not mares tails.
I KNOW, I KNOW…….I’M MISINTERPRETING WHAT I’M SEEING!! STFU!
COME ON OUT TO PDX. SEE FOR YOURSELF SINCE THAT IS ALL YOU BELIEVE….OH WAIT….YOU DON’T EVEN BELIEVE YOUR OWN EYES……BECAUSE CHEMTRAILS IN YOUR MIND DO-NOT-EXIST.
THERE IS A HEAVY ONGOING CAMPAIGN. I’M AMASSING 1,000’S OF ZOOM PHOTOS. THESE ARE NOT COMMERCIAL PLANES AND THEY ARE DELIBERATELY SPRAYING AT 10-16K.
.5 TO 1.5K APART. THE TRAILS SPREAD OUT OVER 40% OF THE HORIZON OFTEN. THIS IS NOT NORMAL. I REPEAT, THEY ARE EXTREMELY LOW. THE FLIGHT PATHS ARE NOT ON ANY KNOWN PUBLISHED PATHS. OVER PDX THEY HAVE UP 8 PLANES AT ANY GIVEN TIME FLYING S-N. I WILL NOT LET THIS REST. THE GOVERNMENT ALREADY ADMITS THE CAMPAIGN. 20,000 FLIGHTS DAILY. JUST BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO ADMIT DOES NOT MAKE A MYTH.
Here is one of many admitted campaigns: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4398507,00.html
Could you post some of those photos, so I can see what you mean?
The article you link is about low altitude tests of how biological agents might invisibly spread in the wind. The tests were carried out by the UK government between 1940 and 1979 . That does not resemble “chemtrails”.
Addie-
is wiping the hood of your car really a scientific method for collecting samples of contrails?
Where is the logic?
Do you have any idea about fall rates dispersed 3-6 miles above you??
Whatever.
That is actually about the government actually spraying poison on the population of England for 40 some odd years. So NO, it’s not a hard stretch to say that they are STILL SPRAYING POISON ON THE POPULATION regardless of what they say the reason is. That is one of 100’s of reports around the globe. England, Austrailia, Germany, USA, Canada.
I guess this is aimed at me so………..It’s actually 2-3 miles overhead. And the simple fact is normal contrails WILL NOT LAST 24Hours and create a massive haze that slowly falls to the ground. Your entire argument is ludicrous.
They sprayed what they thought were harmless agents. There were about ten tests a year. The tests were at low altitudes, and mostly NOT from planes. The spray was invisible. See:
http://www.nr23.net/govt/spray.htm
Now how exactly does that translate to long white trails at 30,000 fee that look and behave exactly like contrails?
Contrails generally form above 26,000 feet. That’s five miles.
Contrails don’t last for 24 hours. They can last for several hours, but after a while they are indistinguishable from
natural cirrus clouds. They don’t fall to the ground. Probably you are just seeing hazy weather condition as a front approaches, and thinking that the contrail caused all the cloud you are seeing. Really it’s just the weather.
Why are there no videos or photos of this this “massive haze that slowly falls to the ground”?
” Whatever ” the most defensive word on the english language !
I had my own personal reasons to do a little ” scientific” testing of the junk on my car.
This might not be good enough for you, but it is for me.. got this?
Whateva………
There are excellent and very scientific websites, that prove that those 20 000 airplanes in the air daily.. are spraying aerosoles.
Besides the fact that I protest that the air I breathe is fiddled with by ” whoeva ” I protest the fact.. that the taxpayer ( you and I ) are paying for it..
Uncinus,
Your an idiot. Truly, an idiot. I am telling you that these are what we are documenting over PDX. Try to keep up.
IT’s real simple. Chemtrails dispersed 3-5 KILOMETERS overhead. (Well below your 26,000ft threshold) That last for over 16hours and SLOWLY FALL TO THE GROUND. Quit being such a mental midget and look into this. I get it, I’m just seeing weather. You are a tool. Oh, and don’t worry………time lapsed footage will be forth coming. More than likely in HD. Unfortunately Winter is setting in but I am sure we will get some clear days. The campaign is so obvious it’s pathetic. As for you, I will repeat myself. Just because you say something doesn’t exist, doesn’t make it fact.
If you believe the government had no clue that agents that it sprayed overhead weren’t toxic, you have reached a new low for humanity. This entire site is about redirection. Redirection from the facts.
Anonymous from PDX, could you explain how you measure the height of the trails you are seeing? I think you might be mistaking regular high altitude trails for something lower.
Anonymous..
Please ” slow down” and get your spelling so that I can read it ..ok?
Because I am with you and I care a lot about what u are saying.
We had the “Chems” so bad today.. it’s unreal. A formation of 4 planes, ” played ” over us.. sprayong.. circling it.. crossing it.. until there was no blue left. Anytime, something is secret, you know.. it’s dangerous. None of my letters to media, the green people.. Senate and Congress.. yes.. even Obma.. have been answered. Good old Amerian stonewalling, O, how I hate it.
I want to move, get out of here. Am checking w. my german family, if it’s clear over there.. they said.. yes, so far ! Am serious, I am getting out of here. This country went from Heaven to Hell.
Since I am an immigrant, I know what I am speaking of.
Hi all,
To those that disagree with Uncinus at least have the decency to be polite.
I’m still looking up and trying to locate data on the use of barium and aluminum
during desert storm. A word of caution for anyone trying to find the info. on the
internet some of the links are malicious ( I refuse to speculate why-lol )
What is needed (because the science of high levels of aluminum, barium and
titanium at ground level is not proof) is for someone who has access to a
spectrometer to point it at a trail. If I were able to perform this test or have input
I would take aim at the jets I see but can’t hear flying from USAF bases.
Uncinus, I have spent many hours looking at old photos (thanks for yours and
link) and old movies. Doing this is leading me to believe that contrail formation
and characteristics are different today than in previous decades. I am curious
what you think.
Oh, and thanks in advance to the person that does the spectrometer work up
as I think the results will be very interesting. I don’t rule out contacting those
with access to this specialized equipment myself though.
Regards,
Bryan
Spectrometers have been used to study contrails before. Just google for contrails+spectrometer
http://www.google.com/search?q=contrails%2Bspectrometer
Contrails have changed on average, mostly there just more of them, but also engine design has changed, with modern high bypass engines burning cleaner, and with a higher “contrail factor”.
Bryan, this is what I like about this blog, everyone voices their opinions and observations.. yet most of them are polite about it, this is why I hang around.
I am no scientist.. I just know that what I see is not only not” normal” yet scary. There is ” stuff” coming from those planes , that covers the sky, and I mean COVERS ! Not one day goes by.. w.out those planes leaving those frightening trails.
Just of late.. my german family is e-mailing me, that they are observing the same thing.. just not as much as we have it here in Southern Cal. ( Maybe they don’t want me to come back home ;o) kidding.. yes.. they have it too. So, I have to assume this secret phenomena.. is sinister and surely nothing good. I am scared.
And I hate the secrecy that is surrounding it. Bush is moving to Dallas.. are we to assume then.. that Dallas is going to be Chemtrail-free ? Well.. maybe I am going to move there then… sorry.. got to rambling here..
Hi Addie,
This is the best forum I have ever seen on contrails. It starts with the understanding that contrails and ‘chemtrails’ behave similarly
which is ignored by almost all of the most known chemtrail theorists. Scott Stevens, Will Thomas, Carnicom all shy away from
the overwhelming evidence of contrail persistence which weakens their chemtrail theories tremendously. It’s as if they don’t
need to pursue better evidence since they say you can tell just by looking. I think we need concrete proof of metals through
contrail sampling or spectrometry results. By the way, Uncinus I did check google. Which was interesting reading. Saw your
website come up twice within the first couple of page searches as well.
The problem with posting to Uncinus is that he wants hard evidence from the scientific community which is Government funded.
So we can’t go beyond cloud seeding technology discussions because the more advanced weather modification does not have
publicly available information. Papers on polymer airborne dispersal or other weather modifications are not available for public consumption. Uncinus seems to have a lot of faith that the Government will do the right thing and that all their work is just
think tank and thought experiment stuff, but there is surely more advanced defense applications than radar chaff and cloud seeding which interact with weather systems. I’m interested in these and their possible relationship to contrails.
Uncinus and Addie, today there are a lot of persistent contrails in the skies above Southern California. Take a look at the cloud
cover over so. Cal. between about 330 pm until a couple of hours after sunset. What I see rather often is that late afternoon
contrail persistence begins to dissapear as the sun goes down. Often the clouds that form from contrails begin to dissipate
around the time the sun goes down. It is as if the trails require energy from the sun to persist. It makes me wonder about the
remarks from NASA that persistent contrails trap the heat at night leading to higher night time temperatures. At least in So. Cal.
the contrails often do not persist long after sunset which means the heat is not trapped by artificial cloud formation.
Regards,
Bryan
Or maybe it’s just that a lot fewer planes fly at night?
This paper has some interesting statistics on the frequency of persistent contrails (called PCs in the paper)
http://enso.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/SFCOBS.GRL.ss.pdf
Brian.. our skies today.. from morning til now, 15:30
Have been covered, with: Wide bands.. veil-like appearances.. grids, plumes.. criss crossing patterns and just now.. little puffy ones like cottonballs. All not ” natural” stuff.
I watched 2 times.. when 2 planes ” created it”.. this was hours ago.. it’s still there.. only much wider.. and it has moved toward east, but still visible. Sorry I can not express myself scientifically.. since I am not one of them.
Just know, that my eyes are not fooling me, and all I can say is: I wish I were wrong.. with what I am thinking !
If it weren’t for this ” stuff” which are NOT clouds nor is it contrails because not even we have that much airtraffic…. we would have had clear blue skies today.. but as it is……. n .m .the word that just came to mind..
No , Uncinus.. there are just as many chemtrails at night, as there are during the day. I have seen formations of planes ” blessing ” us with their ” whateva..” smack in the middle of night. There was good moonlight, so I saw it clearly.
Hi,
I’m about 35 miles east of Los Angeles and I watched the sky become less overcast tonight. In the case of my observation tonight
it was really rather amazing because before sunset the sky was overcast to such a degree that I could not make out contrails, just
clouds. I could also not see any of the higher elevations of the San Bernardino mountains. As sunset approached I thought to myself that I definitely won’t see night clearing effect today. Then I did see it. I actually saw a lot of clearing of the skies to the point where the sun became visible just before sunset and the mountain range clouds just
evaporated. The moon was visible in a portion of the sky where just a couple of hours before it was completely socked in by clouds.
Good link Uncinus but what I saw tonight was a great deal of cloud abatement. It was a lifting and dissipation of an amazing amount of cloud cover which began before sunset and continued after dark. I think there may still be contrails above me but the sky is mostly clear now and has been since very shortly after sunset.
The view of cloud dissipation is not really evident in this video, but it is a pretty cool time lapse located in Big Bear, Ca.
http://www.socalmountains.com/timelapse/timelapse.php
Peace,
Bryan
Jazzrock, #3 on your website is most definitely wrong, it is really, really wrong and you should change it.
If you’d like I can post the scientific papers which show it to be wrong (there are many)
If you want your website to be credible you really need to change that one.
(His website is linked in the left column as, Twenty Things)
Technically #10 is wrong as well, but there is at least is a bit of truth to it, you can probably slide by with it.
#17 is wrong actually, only a small increase in cloud cover is necessary ( we know that contrails today are
causing changes )
#20 is goofy and should probably be changed. Observation is highbrow stuff and integral to all scientific method.
Interpretation is another matter entirely of course.
Other than that not too bad, the tone is rather harsh of course.
Peace,
Bryan
Perhaps you should comment about that on his web site, rather than here.
http://hubpages.com/hub/To-Chemtrailers-Twenty-Things-You-Dont-Know
Obama started a website.. where you can voice concerns etc. It Is :
CHANGE.GOV
I wrote twice already, complaining about those Chems in our skies.. and asked for clarification. Not sure I will get a reply, but at least, no one can say, I did not try.
Maybe everyone should go to that site.. to voice this concern.
Today again.. our skies were not cloudy or contrailed.. yet full of this white stuff…. that spread and spread, and I talked to someone who is friends w. a military person, who told her.. there are planes.. being filled with Chems… to fly and spread them…
She said, he could not tell her details, that it is ” secret” nice.. huh? This just happened to me 1/2 hour ago, at the UPS store…
Addie, you know what “wind-up” means, don’t you?
Thanx a lot Ross.. I know what wind-up means.. but not in connection w. what I wrote… maybe you would care to explain?
Check any meteorology book, or WIKI, or Britannica, and you’ll find it to be really, really, right. Check out Quasi-biennial Oscillation…
Seeing as the tropopause (and its separation of the troposphere from the stratosphere) blows your “musings” to smithereens, it isn’t surprising that you say what you must.
I wouldn’t give you tuppence for YOUR “reference material”.
Perhaps someone has already addressed this but there are quite a few comments here. My question is simple as there are many loopholes in other questions i might have that make it easy to explain away and while overall it paints an obvious picture that something is going on and that this is a disinformation site or someone who has undying trust in government funded science and investigations. My question, and i have seen this many times with my own eyes, over san diego or in the middle of nowhere WY. —————– —————– ————– ———————————————————– ———————- ——-
or perhaps =================== ==================== ======= ============ =============== ===================== ==================== ============== ============
I just assume they are gliding to save fuel.
It’s been addressed, see:
https://contrailscience.com/broken-contrails/
Addie:
I suspect that person you spoke to in the UPS store (with the “military friend”) was winding you up.
Ross, whoever you are : Your being cynical, does neither contribute nor take away, from the discussions that happen here.
Most of us are seriously discussing the subject of chemtrails.. versas con -trails, and we have had an interesting time of it.
As for your empty comments, I will no longer read them.. they are useless. Maybe you can find another site where you would be happier.
To anyone that cares:
There are those who are content with believing that all of the questionable activities that are obscurring our once blue skies are nothing more than contrails because uncinus says so. He will even provide you with a link to an old photo or some NASA document as his evidence to back up his claim. None of which has any credibility as proof that what people are reporting are just contrails. Here is some literature to research for the people that are still capable of thinking for themselves. These are actual documents that can be found if you choose to read them in further detail. Be careful, you run the risk of being labeled a ‘conspiracy theorist’ or some kind of nut job. Being labeled deters some people from admitting the obvious truth. Others simply can not accept it because the reality of it is absolutely horrifying.
GEOENGINEERING: A CLIMATE CHANGE MANHATTAN PROJECT
Stanford Environmental Law Journal January, 1998
Here are a few excerpts. Keep in mind that this document was created 10 years ago.
– while the deployment phase of geoengineering may take less time to have an effect than preventive regulation, the initial research should begin without delay. “Phase One” must be incurred today.
– distributing enough particulate matter to equal Mount Pinatubo’s twenty million tons of dust may be done–one proposal suggests–simply by modifying ordinary commercial airplanes to fly dirtier.
– Geoengineering, even if it were to carry a higher immediate price tag, would carry lower overall political-economic costs than legislative solutions because the costs are relatively minor to the distributionally advantaged actors. In terms of political economy, playing well on Wall Street is a significant asset.
– compared with reducing fossil fuel use, geoengineering requires very little commitment from “ordinary people.” To the extent that this reduced burden of social costs translates into ease of implementation, geoengineering is more likely to succeed in the long term than climate change regulation.
– Pursuing geoengineering as a policy thus avoids many of the “complexity” traps associated with regulation. From a political point of view, a geoengineering plan is far simpler to implement than trying to regulate more than five billion carbon dioxide emitters.
– The costs of coping with dead forests and shifting agricultural zones are not scare tactics, but serious concerns that may outweigh eco-aesthetic (or even religious) reservations about a man-made sky.
– We are not cutting off our nose to spite our face; we are performing corrective plastic surgery.
– Sleight-of-hand in service of the environment is often the only way to operate–and it is how many people accomplish good things.
– A Climate Change Manhattan Project to research, develop, and deploy a workable geoengineering program is the policy option that is best politically, least invasive socially, and most efficient economically–at least in the meantime.
– we need more than a global Marshall Plan of incentives and reductions to avert potentially disastrous climatic change. We need a Manhattan Project.
– Stephen Schneider has argued for just such a treaty, given the potential of localized climate modification as “an overt or clandestine weapon.”
Another good read:
The Science of “Air Pharmacology” or “Chemtrails”
By: Jim Phelps Copyright 2005
Jim Phelps is a former employee of the DOE at Oak Ridge National Lab. He invented the concepts of “Global Systems Engineering”
If you have ever wondered about chemtrails; What they are, How they work, Who designed them, or Who is responsible then it is all right here in these pages for all to see.
In “Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Bases conclusion”, the N.A.S. found that the most effective
global warming mitigation turned out to be the spraying of reflective aerosol compounds into the atmosphere utilizing commercial, military and private aircraft. This preferred mitigation method is designed to create a global atmospheric shield which would increase the planet’s albedo (reflectivity) using aerosol compounds of aluminum and barium oxides, and to introduce ozone generating chemicals into the atmosphere.
Boeing Aircraft received an enormous initial order from the Pentagon for 100 Boeing 767 tanker planes, to begin replacing the Air Force’s aging fleet of KC-135s, the most commonly seen chemtrail spray plane. The final order will exceed 500 planes. There has been no mention of the usage of these aircraft.
Geoengineering is being carried out on Earth on a staggering scale, without the impediment of environmental laws or regulatory constraints. This grand experiment is being conducted in full view, while being concealed in plain sight. Debunkers have been deployed to discredit any mention of it and
science is being manipulated by agencies such as NASA and NOAA to decieve people into supporting the contrail “theory”.
ABC News’ Bill Blakemore filed this report for “World News Tonight.”
Copyright © 2006 ABC News Internet Ventures
ABC News: Top NASA Scientist Says He’s Being Silenced on Global Warming
Still not convinced? Check back later, I have alot more if your brain can handle it.
Alright Addie, this is serious.
All “chemtrail” discussion is predicated on a statement that goes something like this, “Normal contrails dissipate quickly, but these last for hours, so they must be something else.”
The notion that contrails always dissipate in a short time is false. In fact, contrails formed in ice-saturated conditions do NOT dissipate in a short time, but will persist for a few hours and sometimes a lot longer.
The water vapor will condense (forming a contrail) if the mixture of jet exhaust gases becomes saturated with respect to water. If the temperature is below the crystal homogeneous nucleation temperature (−42 °C), as it usually is when contrails form, the condensed water droplets freeze. This occurs almost immediately after the droplets have condensed. So contrails are ice clouds.
Ice clouds, including contrails, cannot dissipate (evaporate) in ice-saturated conditions; that is when the relative humidity with respect to ice is greater than 100%.
A word or two about condensation nuclei. When air becomes water-saturated, the excess water vapor condenses to form water droplet cloud because there are plenty of condensation nuclei in the air – aerosols. These are composed of volcanic ash, smoke, dust, etc. None of these are freezing nuclei; and there are very few freezing nuclei aerosols in the atmosphere. This is why there can be large areas in the upper troposphere, and though considerable depth, that are ice-saturated and free of ice cloud.
Everything is observed of these long lasting contrails (called “chemtrails” by some) can be explained in terms of the air routes that jets travel, translation by the wind, spreading by wind-shear, the inhomogeneity of humidity, change of temperature with altitude, and so on. All of this has been presented and discussed at length on this site by Uncinus and others, and on other sites by even more others, and on the sites of the academic and research community.
Here is some Contrail FAQ reproduced here from another web site without permission. I am sure the original author won’t mind.
Contrails – FAQ
Q: What is the deal with contrails?
A: When the air up there is cold enough, the water vapor in the exhaust from jet engines will form contrails. The water vapor condenses several meters after leaving the engine, then almost immediately freezes.
Q: Are there certain weather conditions for the formation of contrails?
A: The critical temperature depends mostly on the altitude (actually, the pressure at the altitude the jet is flying), and to a lesser extent on the amount of water vapour already present there (actually, the relative humidity).
Q: I see some contrails that last for hours. What about them?
A: If in addition, if there is enough moisture that the air is supersaturated with respect to ice, the contrails will be persistent. Contrails are ice clouds – cirrus.
Q: Why to they spread sometimes to cover large parts of the sky?
A: Once formed, persistent contrails will behave like any other cirrus cloud. They will drift on the wind, spread out, and sometimes contort into weird and wonderful shapes. Wind shear causes the spreading.
Q: What are those hangy things?
A: There are transient effects sometimes; pendules, pulses, puffs, and so on, caused by various things going on in the turbulent (but somewhat structured) wake of the jet.
Q: Is there a purpose for them? Why?
A: Contrails are not intentional; there is no purpose. They form as a consequence of running a jet engine in the upper troposphere. That’s where the jets fly – 6 to 7 miles up.
Q: Are they natural?
A: Contrails are not natural; they are artificial. There is no natural process that injects water vapor in to the environment in long lines 6 miles up. They look weird. However, the thermodynamical processes are natural and are due to the properties of water substance at low temperatures.
Q: What are the implications for weather and climate?
A: Contrails may contribute to additional cirrus cloud cover, and atmospheric scientists at many research organizations are looking into the implications for regional and global climate.
Q: Sometimes I see some optical effects. What about them?
A: There are lots of optical effects. Shadows when they are fresh and compact; halos, sun dogs and all the other opticals you normally get with cirrus and ice cloud when they have spread out some. And shadows.
If any of this needs clarification Addie, please ask Uncinus or myself. I will be happy to answer, and I am sure Uncinus will be as well.
rude dog, I care.. keep it coming please !
Can you do me a big favor, can you put a ” bottomline” on it all.. as to what it’s purpose is.. and how it is possible, that it is in plain sight, and people stare at it.. and talk about it, and ” they” get away w. it anyway ? Blows my mind. Also, English is not my 1. language and I have trouble understanding what you typed. It’s meaning escapes me, I do not understand ” formal’ or as I call it” lawyer-English ” because I never learned it. So, just for dummie me please, sum it up a bit, and explain in simple language.. ok? Today again.. they criss-crossed and circled until the skies looked like a canvas w. kid’s fingerpainting on it. Just terrifying ! We had much rain, and when the skies cleared.. there they were, cirss crossing the skies, they are working on it night an day around here, do you think, it killed our bees? And what does it do to the agrarculture ? I don’t care being called a ” conspiracy-freak “, because the truth is more important to me, than what someone might think of me !
Thank you..
Everything that is observed of these long lasting contrails (called “chemtrails” by some) can be explained in terms of
the air routes that jets travel,
translation by the wind,
spreading by wind-shear,
the inhomogeneity of humidity,
change of temperature with altitude,
and so on.
All of this has been presented and discussed at length on this site by Uncinus and others, and on other sites by even more others, and on the sites of the academic and research community.
Ross says:
Why Ross? Because you say so? Where is your proof? What makes your interpretation more credible than the testimony of the actual wittness to the event? Were you there? What motive do you have to automatically attempt to persuade the public that the testimonies of concerned citizens around the world are false? How could you possibly know more about the event than the person that actually wittnessed it and was physically affected by it? You must have some hidden agenda in order to be so determined to discredit any account of chemtrail activity, or you have no compassion for your fellow humans. Your attempts to debunk have no more credibility to them than the the items being presented to you. There is no ‘science’ in your explainations, just a bunch of references to irrelevent information that has nothing to do with what the people are experiencing everywhere within the last 10 years. The visual evidence is overwhelming enough to anyone that is not blind or brain dead. The fact that you and uncinus and many others on this website are so determined to debunk any information that is presented, is more the reason to be concerned.
Addie,
I will post more in the near future when I have more time. Keep checking in. In the meantime you can read some of my posts on the “https://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/” link or the “https://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/” link
When Ross says: “Everything that is observed of these long lasting contrails (called “chemtrails” by some) can be explained in terms of blah blah blah……,”
he does not provide any evidence that what he says is actually what is happening. He simply reacts with statements full of suggestive alternatives and tries to include some sort of scientific data with it in an attempt to mislead people and persuade them to believe him. I know what I am seeing and I believe you do also. Believe your own eyes and your own mind and not what some unknown debunker says to believe. Stay posted in the near future. rudedog.
See, there’s a flaw in your argument, because quite clearly the evidence is NOT overwhelming. Nobody cares about contrails. Ask people on the street what they think is going on, and they will look at you bemusedly. They have not noticed anything unusual. Even if you ask them the most leading questions like “do you knwo what they are spraying up there”, and point to the contrails, then you’ll not elicit any concern.
So if it’s so obvious, they why does nobody notice it? Why don’t meteorologists notice it? Why don’t weatherman notice it? Why don’t scientists notice it? Why don’t environmental groups notice it? Why don’t other countries notice it?
Maybe because it’s just a bunch of contrails.
Ross,
Some people are trying to examine the contrail issue along the lines of projects such as the Military’s project AIM
and along the lines of terms such as RFMP, VTRPE, DUCTING, HAARP, ATMOSPHERIC RF DUCT, and barium salts.
Difficult to do, as these projects are largely classified. So we revert to discussions instead about cloud seeding as
this information is mainstream. I just don’t buy that if it isn’t mainstream then it doesn’t exist.
Once in a while a morsel of disclosure crops up, 1997, then Sec. of Defense William Cohen dropped a good one
in plain sight when he stated, “Others are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves… So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations…”
Evidence abounds that the U.S. is working diligently along the same lines, and the U.S. military mandate calls for superiority.
On this website discussion of advanced weaponry is mostly derided as being just speculation. To follow that line of thought
it is also impossible that any type of military advanced aircraft exists beyond what is known publicly. I for one believe that
there are some very cool aircraft that aren’t publicly known. My Uncle, while fishing for pike way up in Northern Canada a few springs ago witnessed an aircraft that traversed the entire horizon in a very short amount of time. The cool thing about what
he saw is that it left a contrail(s) that looked like smoke rings from Gandalfs pipe. That aircraft doesn’t exist… publicly.
-Bryan
Nobody is saying that the DOD has no secret advanced weaponry programs. Obviously they do, and they are secret.
Where I take issue is when people claim to know what those programs consist of, based on the most tenuous of clues, and selective reading of only the papers that mention your pet theory.
Now, I don’t know what Cohen was referring to exactly, but it’s worth quoting him in full:
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674
It seems that the list of threats he lists there follows on from “The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one.“, which suggests these are what he considers to be imaginary threats and not real threats.
I don’t follow the reasoning that the false scare he is referring to translates into how the threats themselves are false. It certainly does not seem to me that he is saying that what turned out to be a false threat in the one incident means that the threats themselves are imaginary. Numerous scientists are on record as being extremely concerned (some even say ‘freaked out’) about what they see as very real threats of bio-weapons and created pathogens. Why would you assume that Cohen perceives the threats as less real than laboratory scientists who say that even in our own labs there exists the danger of accidental releases or ‘leaks’ of these types of weapons?
If Cohen thought the threats were imaginary or not possible he is at odds with evidence showing that anthrax (traced to U.S. Government anthrax and pinned on the dead guy– niiccceeee) and other threats such as virus creations (Aids and Ebola) are real.
The full context doesn’t weaken his statement at all in my opinion. I wish it was as simple as ‘quote fishing’ by a conspiracy minded individual but I don’t think it is.
Cohen even later states “It’s real, and that’s the reason we have to intensify our efforts, and that’s why this is so important” which seems to me the converse of what you say he is saying. Engineered super viruses, be ready for them, I certainly have
my oil of oregano and garlic cloves ready. …. incidentally, if I even think that they will strengthen my immune system than they probably will. The mind is vastly more powerful than medicine.
I make certain that my pet theories have evidence of actual implementation and some amount of corroborating evidence. Although
the evidence is not as clear cut as you’d like (no press conferences on HAARP being able to remotely trigger earthquakes after all) so we instead have to rely on the originator Dr. Bernard Eastlund who steadfastly maintains that this is well within HAARP and
other arrays capabilities. Furthermore we know that the energy can be used to penetrate the earth to a considerable depth at
energy levels greater than previous underground oil searching technology as stated by someone who has first hand experience with both technologies. We aren’t just yet going to get a paper from a USGS scientist outlining precisly how this technology works, but my theories are much more grounded than you imply.
Rude dog: Thank you, and yes, I will stay tuned.
Uncinus : There are people in other countries noticing it.
My whole family lives in Europe.. and they are as upset and concerned as I am. In other words.. Europe’s skies are full of chemtrails also, this I know for a fact.
I don’t think he’s saying that biological threats are not real. He’s saying that simply a rumor of a threat is also a real problem because it takes the agency’s resources – regardless of if the threat is real or not.
Addie said:
No, not because I say so, but because this is what you can see for your self when you look carefully enough. No one is questioning anyone’s eye witness testimony. No one is disputing that there are a lot more contrails now than there were a few decades ago. I have no hidden agenda about what I am saying here. I am dismayed that so many well meaning people have such a poor understanding of how the atmosphere works, never mind how a modern air transportation system works. I am simply sharing what I know. Compassion? I can’t just stand by; bad things happen when good people do nothing. I am concerned that a hard-line chemtrail believer will do something really stupid and dangerous.
As for debunking, much of the information presented here (and elsewhere) by the chemtrail believers that has nothing to do with what we are all seeing in the sky. Things like HAARP, chaff, barium, aluminum, peoples’ illnesses, and so on. There is nothing to “debunk” really, except to point out the irrelevance.
As you say, it is a question of interpretation. More than that, it’s about how the interpretation fits with what is already known.
We know that jet aircraft traverse the sky along fixed flight routes. The routes are made up of segments joining navigation beacon installations on the ground.
We know that there is wind in the upper troposphere where these planes fly, and we know that sometimes the wind there varies in direction and speed both with height and horizontally.
We know that the upper troposphere is not perfectly homogeneous – there are variations in humidity from place to place and with altitude.
We know that ambient air temperature in the upper troposphere does not vary much on a constant pressure surface (along which the planes fly), but does vary by several degrees per thousand feet with altitude.
These are basic to air navigation and basic meteorology and are easily verified and mostly self evident – surely, I don’t need to give references.
The best illustration of what I listed can be found in the video clips that the chemtrail believers put up to “prove” their story. If you want references, here they are. Look at any time-lapse “chemtrail” video…
For instance: “73 before breakfast”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL50vs899uw
In this one the contributor has helpfully delineated the air routes. Air traffic repeatedly travels the same route. More than that, you can see that once formed, the contrail is carried off the route’s position by the wind, and another is formed next to it as it moves away.
Similarly in this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2goxGkFQug
You can identify the location of the air routes, translation of contrails by the wind, and spreading of contrails by wind shear.
Another one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3C_cCQYiNE
Air routes, and 2 contrail shadows cast in the air – momentarily they look like beams. These shadows are another contentious issue with the contrail/chemtrail controversy.
Here are some more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ka3DdUsRDU
France – air route in bottom right corner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WabzHXBJTHg
Chemtrails Time Lapse Of Still Photos Skyhighway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM-hXyOm9VI
Assorted clips.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O4MOq2Tdmw
Air routes – (not much after about 2:00).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSdis2Hycb8
In other videos and photos you can see where aircraft at different altitudes produce contrails with different properties, or not at all, depending on the different atmospheric conditions.
As I said, all this has been discussed at length on this site by Uncinus and others, and on other sites by even more others, and on the sites of the academic and research community.
It is a matter of interpretation of what everyone can see.
Bravo, Ross!
It is YOUR INTERPRETATION we find so objectionable. It is born of your failure to interpret the physical consequences of air travel in the first place.
It is irksome to listen to (or read) lectures about “poisoning PTB”, when you never interpret the visible signs of normal passenger transport with any degree of sense, or informed opinion.
After all (as I am constantly stating) if you simply look up, and use your eyes, it is obvious that the Sun goes round the Earth.
But you all know that isn’t so. But you will never give the reason why, will you?
eh, Ross, check again, cause I dinn’ say that !!!
Addie, I apologise and beg your pardon.
I was quoting rudedog.
I too see those “lines” in the sky, and I honestly don’t remeber seeing them when I was younger. Frequently, at least twice a week the skies of Chicago are a mess with those contrails. I read thru the arguments on this site, maybe not deeply enough, but I will respond briefly with my experience and thoughts..
1. People do see these all around the world, mostly in United Nations countries?
2. There are a lot of anomalies with the planes on days they “spray”. It does take a lot of time to observe these though.
a) You can see some planes leave short normal contrails, while other leave the persisting kind.
b) Doesn’t matter if it is fall, winter, spring, summer, Colorado, Florida, California, Illinois, United Kingdom, etc; *these persistent contrails linger and generate a fake cloud cover..
c) unusual flight angles for commercial planes. Jets all ove the sky, not following the sky “hi-way” that commercial jets use..
d) I have seen jets spray a “line”, cut the the spray and then travel in another direction..
3. I am so surprised more people dont see it too. If you do mention it to most people they look at you have lobsters coming out of your ears. It did take me almost 12 years to notice, if they started being noticed in 1996.. Now I can’t take my eyes off them, once you know what to look for they are easy to see..
a) I haven’t watched television in two years, but I am willing to bet that those “lines” are in the background skies of tv shows, movies, video games, etc.. slowly creeping into your subconcious making you think they are normal..
b)** Also, people are so distracted, who looks up anymore. Observe people, no one looks up. Everyone is so distracted by cell phones, ipods, etc..
4. The term conspiracy, that is a prorammed term. We for some reason in this society think that if we predicate something with conspiracy, it is no longer valid. If you wrap your mind around this, you will understand that the whole world is a conspiracy, being that it is governed, ruled, and shaped by a mall group of people..
Peace on Earth, Citizen of the Cosmos..
Don’t you see the connection there? If you did not notice them between 1996 and 2008, then why would you have noticed them before? Especially if there were fewer of them?
Thanx Brad.. yes, we see it and it’s not anything ” normal.”
Ross, you are forgiven ;o)
What I see today is different, and maybe someone could explain :
From horizon to horizon.. like ” beams ” very faint, like a painting with the sun, and painting in the beams. All over the sky.
Then I noticed.. they also criss crossed…. so the sky looks sorta like a checkerboard. I have never seen anything like this be4.
No way.. could there have been that many planes in the sky, just no way.
Unless they flew back and forth to create this pattern.. I am so curious.. has anyone ever seen anything like that? I am sorry that I can not explain it any better.. you would have to see this yourself.. to really get a picture here. This is by far the weirdest thing I ever saw !Uncinus ?
I started noticing the contrails this year. I live in the San Fernando Valley of Southern California. Sometimes the the contrails create a complete cloud cover on what started as a clear day.
I’ve also observed, that while some planes leave a long contrail that is thick and spreads out, the contrails of other planes flying AT THE SAME TIME, trail off behind the plane and disappear very quickly. Also, at times a plane will leave a contrail in short bursts, kind of like a dotted line. If it’s exhaust, why is the exhaust not uniform? Can you respond to these two observances?
It upsets me to think that someone would spray something in the air that I had to breath, and I hope there is another explanation.
JazzRoc
Thanks. Someone had to say it.
And to whom is the rest of your post directed? If it’s me, why? (Given the “Bravo”.)
BTW, I do understand sarcasm and irony. No frontotemporal dementia here! Sometimes though, at times, I experience simultaneous deja vu and amnesia sometimes.
You make a point, but not enough.. I will trust in the 1000’s of reports that started to circulate around 1996. Masses of people don’t start reporting anmoalies, unless they see them. From 1996 – 2006 I was highly concentrated on my studies and work, and was the typical member of society. Hooked on television like the vast majority and most likely highly programmed to the system and thus numbing me to pay no attention to things other than materialism, generally speaking..
During my studies I started to become a bit of a social critic, philosopher if you will, denounced televison, and most institutions within society. In essence, deprogramming myself. Once you learn to spot one lie, you can see our world is made up entirely of deceit, and selective information..
Correction to what you said; Air traffic has been reduced considerably since 9/11 due to the finances or the airlines, they had to reduce flights in order to keep their business profitable. Yet with this reduction, the sky is a mess..
The anomalies in the aircraft is the most intriguing and unexplainable of them all..
Why are you so interested in “de bunking” people on this site? I am just looking for information..
Peace on Earth
Questions:
1. How come weather conditions are “just right” to produce persisting contrails 3 times a week?
2. How come weather conditions are “just right” to produce persisting contrials in all the seasons, every week, all around the world?
3. How come when I observe some of these jts spray persisting contrials they are flying at almost vertical angles, angles that commercial jets don’t fly in. It is obvious the jets leaving the persistent contrail aren’t about to land or take off.
4. How come, if you observe the jets, you can see them start and stop the spray, and do radical direction changes?
** I think if these contrails and the mess of obvious pollution they are leaving in the sky were normal, from before 1996, we wouldn’t be having this discussion now..
I hope Peace and Positivity find you.. Citizen of the Cosmos
Brad, just read around this site, and you will find all your questions answered.
Air travel has increased since 9-11. There was a pause in growth of just TWO MONTHS.
It should occur to you not to draw conclusions when you can neither work from correct info nor interpret what you see.
Check http://jazzroc.wordpress.com “What’s it all about?”
Today, Saturday.. our skies are so covered with CHEMTRAILS the sun is shining red.
I was standing outside with about 12 people.. one of whom videod this mess, there was 1 pharmacist who remarked:” No wonder we are selling ” Advair” like crazy.”.. ( I just had mine re-filled ).
Some had tears of anger in their eyes.. others swore they would write more letters, to what avail….. nil, in my experience.
How does this help HAARP ” cook” the ionosphere? Dunno am no scientist.
Hey Jazz Roc-
I looked around your site and you have lots of great information on there. It is hard to figure out who is saying what though. I am not one to read through tons of negative blogging going back and forth between two opposing views. I too am a Dawkins fan, saw that on there.
However, my questions about the planes and the way I’ve seen them fly are still un answered.
Peace, Brad
Brad asked:
Jet that are about to land and take off do not leave exhaust contrail, as they are too low.
When you say “flying at almost vertical angles, angles that commercial jets don’t fly in” and “radical direction changes”, what do you mean? Can you show a photo or video of an example of this?
Jets do not “start and stop the spray”, however contrail can be broken by flying though areas of varying humidity, which makes it look like the contrail is being switched on and off. See this post for a full explanation:
https://contrailscience.com/broken-contrails/
If a contrailing plane is flying level but directly towards you, it will appear to be going vertically straight up. When you follow it overhead and eventually away from you, it will then appear do be diving straight down.
If you assume that it is flying at a constant speed, and you make some careful, timed observations of the angle of elevation above the horizon, with a bit of trigonometry you will be able to deduce that it is flying level, taking observation error into consideration.
Brad:
Frequently done to protect the “innocent”. The “guilty” get a rougher treatment…
Merry Xmas everyone.
I tell ya what, you’ve got a lot of patience Uncinus! I couldn’t have civilly posted the same thing that many times to have people provide no evidence whatsoever. So good on ya! 😀