Some people believe that the government is spraying something into the air, and this creates unsual looking contrails. They call these “chemtrails”. Now, there is no real evidence that “chemtrails” are real, but there are several myths on the internet about “chemtrails”. All these myths can very easily be shown to be false, and I’ve gathered the most popular myths here as a little time-saver for the person who has encountered “chemtrails” for the first time.
Myth #1 – Normal contrails don’t last very long, but “chemtrails” last for hours and sometimes spread out.
False – Contrails fade away, or persist, or even spread out to cover the sky, depending on the weather conditions. you can confirm this by looking in an encyclopedia. such as the Encyclopædia Britannica
[Contrails] may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.
For more info on this myth, read “Persisting and Spreading contrails”
Myth #2 – Contrails have been observed to persist and spread when the humidity was too low, so they must be “chemtrails”
False – Nobody has ever measured low humidity within a persisting contrail. The fact is it is very difficult to measure humidity in a specific region at a specific altitude, at a given time, the best you can do is make a rough prediction. Measurements are made by weather balloons at just a few stations that average 235 miles apart, at 12 hour intervals, and then local predictions are extrapolated from this. The weather balloons can drift as much as 100 miles in their ascent, so you never know where the measurements are coming from. Humidity can vary by as much as 80% in a 12 hour period, and vary by similar amount over just a few miles. The fact that the contrail is spreading is actually a far more accurate indicator of high humidity than the available humidity predictions. NASAs own experiments (right) show persisting contrails over a large range of calculated humidities, even down to 10%.
Myth #3 – Long lasting contrails have appeared in “parallel lines”, “grid” and “X” formations, which are not normal, so must be “chemtrails.
False. Well, the last bit is false. Yes, contrails make all kinds of patterns in the sky, simply because there are a lot of planes flying overhead, and they fly in all directions. This is pretty much a function of where you live, and the prevailing winds. For example, if you live the Willamette Valley, Oregon, the overflying planes are nearly all North/South, so you’ll get parallel lines. If you live live in more central place, like North Texas, you’ll get planes flying overhead in every direction, so you will get “X” patterns (and “H” and “grids”). If there’s enough wind, and the trails last long enough, then the grid might spread out to cover the sky.
Myth #4 – A bill to ban chemtrails was introduced into congress by Dennis Kucinich, but quickly had chemtrails edited out.
False – HR 2977 was written by a bunch of UFO enthusiasts intent on exposing a conspiracy to suppress alien technology. Dennis Kucinich did not write the bill, he not know what chemtrails were, and when he found out, he distanced himself from that language. The bill was re-written in order that it might pass. See the full article: Kucinich, Chemtrails and HR 2977.
Myth #5 – Public Law 105-85 gives the military permission to experiment with chemical and biological weapons on humans, without their consent
False – 105-85, Sec. 1078, actually prevents experiments except for peaceful purposes, and those can only be performed if informed consent is obtained from each test subject. It’s basically the same procedure as for human drug trials.
SUMMARY
Those myths are really the basis of the “chemtrail” conspiracy theory. There is more, of course, like the halos and sun-dogs that you sometimes see (normal atmospheric optical effects), the dark lines (shadows of varying types), the stuff on the ground (unconnected). But these things really get to the heart of 99% of the chemtrail argument. After they are dispensed with, the theory holds about as much water as alien mind-control implants.
Let me know if you’ve got something else you’d like investigating, and I might add it here.
Just leave a comment below.
I was simply asking why you posted your images of normal contrails.
If you have looked at this site you’ll find they are no different from contrail images taken many decades ago as far back as the 1940s.
It’s precisely because your questions have not shown up and I don’t know what you asked that I’m wondering what you think the significance of the images is supposed to be?
Looking forwards to reading your questions.
Skitz is posting over on Metabunk, and has some sensible questions.
“The Science Of Contrails And Pseudoscience Of Chemtrails.”
Better? Yes?
To all non-believers and the so called experts on Contrails. Everything you tried to disproof can now be proven, but even if you hear or see it you stilled won’t believe it. Ignorance is Bliss. Your new best friend David Keith Geo-engineering will explain to you step by step and the things he is doing to save our planet. He actually believes he can change Global warming, Climate control and CO2 levels. Whatever they are spraying up in the Stratosphere, it ain’t going to change anything. We must stop this project before there are any adverse affects on our health, even David Keith doesn’t know.
“Everything you tried to disproof can now be proven”
So prove it. Actually if I see the evidence I WILL believe it – that is what it means to be evidence driven. Seeing evidence and not believing it is what chemtrail believers so – so I guess it is no surprise they think everyone else does too.
But to be rational, and a critical thinker means that one must actually believe the evidence – so if you have verifiable evidence then you will convince me.
Go on – you can be the first person ever to provide verifiable evidence that chemtrails exist and convince every rational debunker in the world!
And yes, David Keith believes he could change global warming. Got any actual evidence that he’s doing it and not just talking about it?
@ MikeC – So you’re saying geo-engineering cannot be proven? Are you also saying that weather modification is not ongoing by weather consulting groups? Western Weather Consulting is only one of the companies operating geo-engineering programs, including aerosol spraying at high altitudes, as outlined as the ‘prescribed method’ by geo-engineer science (at a height of between 9 and 13 miles.)
Weather is a hedge fund on the mercantile exchange. Do you think there’s not a monetary reward for those investing in weather hedge funds, when the technology has existed for decades to affect weather and weather systems?
Wow. You debunkers have quite the job to do – to try and convince the masses that geo-engineering, even in the form of it’s most base application for weather modification companies – who openly advertise their technology – doesn’t really exist…Good luck with that.
What fairy tales would you like to spin next?
As for the web site co-ordinator who emailed me that most of my earlier questions could be answered – they weren’t. You did not address the fact that myself and a friend witnessed a plane laying down a trail that turned from white, to brown, before the spray substance appeared to completely run out. It was at that precise moment that the pilot turned the plane around in the sky, and headed back towards the Oregon coast. This was observed off the coast of Vancouver Island, Canada.
What would you have us believe next? That it was a flight coming home to Vancouver, B.C. from Los Angeles, California – and it turned around in the sky because the kids on board convinced the pilot they’d like a few more days at Disneyland?
If we had not seen this plane perform this move, with the spray turning from a large persistent plume of white that turned to brown briefly, then stop – causing him to make a complete U turn in the sky to head back in the direction he’d just travelled from? Perhaps your explanations would dupe us as well. We observed the purposeful spraying, and the substance running out, causing the plane to cease his route and completely turn around in the sky to head back where he’d just travelled from. Debunk that.
We’ve had three cancers in our own family – all terminal. We hear of more cases every day here – and we know this is not normal. Whether it be geo-engineering being performed for some other means – or simply the weather modification companies – it is having a negative effect on the environment, birds, bees and people.
No matter how you people try to debunk it.
No matter how hard? So you are convinced. Go tell the world then- don’t just argue with us on a website where everyone is anonymous including me.
Tell the press. Local, regional, national. If you are worried about what the programs are doing surely you must tell someone. And don’t stop until they listen.
Or better yet- go make some money off of the programs somehow. Sell chemtrail protection, eradication, detection. Something besides pontlessly arguing with us.
It just seems odd that you witnessed such a specific event that you truly believed was a clandestine operation designed to modify nature while at the same time directly harming yourself and members of your family and yet all you do is go online and post on message boards. At the very least you don’t really beleive the conspiracy which would be understandable- at the most you beleive it, witness it and have evidence of its ill effects and yet still sit idly by doing nothing while it continues making you as guilty as those who you claim are doing it.
So prove me wrong- in the next few days I need to see a link to a news story in your area which you have broken. It will take a sacrifice on your part, however, in that you will have to surrender your anonimity in order to be a part of the news story. They won’t just run with an anonymous tip.
But wouldn’t that be worth it in the end if it helped expose what you believe to be such an awful operation?
P Saunders wrote:
“@ MikeC – So you’re saying geo-engineering cannot be proven? Are you also saying that weather modification is not ongoing by weather consulting groups?”
Geoengineering can certainly be proven – carbon sequestration, reforrestation, cool roofs, etc. What you say is happening is solar radiation management by “spraying” something in the atmosphere – that is only 1 type of geo-enginering and yet you seem to think it is the only one.
But how about you prove it?
Also weather modification, aka cloud seeding, is also certainly happening. But how about you prove that it has anything to do with airliners leaving trails of any sort at 30,000 feet, since those are the things you are seeing.
on page 8 of comments, when Austin was asking for evidence of contrails in in media pre-dating 96, i thought a likely candidate would be japanese anime. i haven’t found any yet just using google picture search (i know they definitely are in there though, they like that sort of attention to detail), but i did find this yahoo question and answer, which is interesting…
Is there a special meaning to airplane contrails in Japanese pop art?
So often when you see the same things over and over in Japanese art or films, they seem to have a cultural meaning that is idiomatic and a foreigner would never know. For instance, circles can represent the moon, and the Moon has special meaning in Zen. The list of things I saw over and over for years but never knew had a second meaning grows all the time.
Frequently in Japanese films or books you will see a character, pausing to reflect and staring silently at a contrail from a jet high overhead. This is not in the usual situation you’d see in western works. In the west you see this, but that is some other character is taking a trip somewhere on a plane and the one on the ground is thinking about them. That happens in Japanese works too. But, in many cases no one is taking a trip, a character is just standing there staring up at an unrelated plane flying overhead, leaving a cloud behind.
Many times when I’ve seen something like that, I’ve written it off as the artists thinking “contrails look interesting”, or they were just trying to save money and pad out the film by animating something easy. However, I’ve seen this “contrail watch” so often I’m starting to think that this particular trope might have a special meaning in Japanese culture. After poking around a while, I couldn’t find anything related to it. Does anyone know if it does have a second meaning, or are Japanese artists just putting contrails in because “everybody else is doing it”, “this will fill in time cheaply”, or “jets are cool” etc?
5 months ago Report Abuse
Hikari
Best Answer – Chosen by Voters
Contrails do have a special meaning. It is said that if you see 7 contrails overhead in one day that you are granted luck (since 7 is a lucky number in Japan) and a wish. They represent a change in a person. Almost like lines in the sky pointing you in the right direction, contrails “make we want to go on a journey” (Makoto Shinkai).
In some of the Japanese songs I’ve heard they say “I’m chasing contrails–one day I’ll be able to touch them–on the other side of the sky.” I feel this is symbolic to people chasing their dreams. But they know that they’ll never be able to touch that contrail because dreams always remain dreams. Silly things for kids to chase and wish for.
And you have to admit, contrails are quite lovely looking.
”
The Wings of Honneamise is an exceptional work of anime that only came to light in the West about a decade after it was originally released in Japan – and even then was not widely seen. It is made with a great beauty. THIS IS NONE MORE EVIDENT THAN IN THE OPENING SCENE WITH IMAGES OF JETS TAKING OFF, LEAVING HUGE CONTRAILS ACROSS THE SKY, which is contrasted against the watching Shiro and the voiceover narration where he tells how he wanted to be in the Navy but ended up joining the Space Force instead. “
(whoops… came out in 1987)
That’s very interesting. I wonder if other cultures have similar things.
I have to admit that I don’t recall much interest in chemtrails coming out of Japan.
The Japanese wikpedia chemtrail page is very sparse, and has no Japanese references:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B1%E3%83%A0%E3%83%BB%E3%83%88%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB
It seems like a very simplistic re-telling of various random aspects of the myth.
There painting a picture over an existing beautiful one. Watch out.
I want to believe!
HAH, THERE ARE SOME HIGHLY RETARDED PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD, I GREW UP IN THE 70S AND 80S AND CLEARLY REMEMBER CONTRAILS ALL OVER THE SKY, REGULARLY… AS FOR BEING INTERESTED IN THE WEATHER AND CLOUD PATERNS. IF YOUR A PILOT YOUR LIFE HINGES ON THIS INFORMATION AND BEING ABLE TO CYPHER IT AND MAKE INTELLEGENT DECISIONS. (PART OF FLIGHT SCHOOL IS LEARNING TO SPOT WEATHER FRONTS AND CLOUDS AND SUCH)
NOT SAYING THE GOVERNMENT DOESNT DO SHIFTY THINGS UNDER THE TABLE, BUT WHAT ARE THEY SPRAYING ON US GUYS…SOME MIND ALTERING CHEMICAL THAT MAKES US WANT TO PAY EXTRA TAXES TO OFFSET THE EXTREME COSTS IT WOULD TAKE TO SPREAD CHEMICALS IN THE AIR LIKE YOU DESCRIBE???? THINK DOLLARS AND SENSE (NOT A TYPO FOOL)
I HAVE DEVISED A “ANTICHEMTRAIL HELMET” FOR ALL YOU BELIEVERS…I SELL THEM FOR 29.95 EACH. DONT MIND THE VONS GROCERY STORE LOGO ON THEM…THEY FIT OVER YOUR HEAD AND KEEP YOU FROM BREATHING…I MEAN KEEP YOU FROM BREATHING CHEMICALS.
Great reply jb. Anyone who has some science background can see how contrails exist. Chemtrails **could** exist, but no one can actually prove it. Sure, there’s plenty of articles on the internet, but those are not facts.
And the claims that these things are new in the past years, ha. Dig up some old pictures or video of the bombers in WWII heading to Germany, either they were all on fire or they had contrails.
Lastly, as has been said here before, if chemtrails really do exist, it’s deplorable that people just argue here about it instead of do something to save yourself, your loved ones and the rest of us from it. You’re all afraid to take a stand about this because you know it’a hoax. Go with jb’s suggestion, use one of those plastic bags to protect yourself from the chemicals.
“You’re all afraid to take a stand about this because you know it’a hoax.”
This is true. Many folks who appear to be ‘true believers’ just drift away ne day and are never heard from again.
On occasion, one will turn up again and I’ve asked where they’ve been. Many have turned away because there is so little, even when things are fabricated the ajorty of people see through it. They get discouraged.
Just go to one of the chemtrail dedicated forums and you will see thousands of members who have joined, some have many thousands, but look at the list and you’ll see 100 or less who stuck with it. It becomes pretty obvious that the vast majority don’t really believe it, and leave.
Hey check out this guy’s explanation on youtube and see if it makes sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHqG6YV09fY
Somewhat, but contrails existed, persisted and spread before high-bypass engines came around. That just makes them a bit more common.
It really is exhausting trying to talk about this subject with people who are convinced that their government is spraying chemicals on them.
I’ve been interested in avionics since I was young, and I happen to recall seeing gigantic contrails (depending on the weather conditions), much the same as we see now, behind aircraft as they entered and exited LAX. I lived in Long Beach at the time. I’ve owned and borrowed countless books about aircraft and their history, and I can think of countless images and descriptions of propeller-driven aircraft generating massive contrails behind the engines. Contrails are also formed by wing surfaces, vortices, propeller blades, etc. I’d be surprised to learn that the government was installing chemical dispersion units into highly-balanced propeller blades since the early 20th century.
But, if you think contrails have chemicals in them, you’re RIGHT. They are formed by engine exhaust, so they do have chemicals in them. There are countless types, makes, and models of aircraft, and over the course of one aircraft’s life, it will be maintained impeccably or to a bare minimum of flight capability, or to any degree in between. Some engines run “dirty” just like our cars and trucks do. Not every plane is the same, and even if they are the same make and model, they will absolutely NOT perform 100% similarly to the next of its kind. There are so many countless variables that go into the formation of contrails, it’s ridiculous to try and argue about it unless you’ve studied it long enough to consider the study of the formation of contrails your profession. Aside from air conditions, planes having more or less cargo or fuel, and having entirely different engine configurations, they are piloted by different people, and thus, they will be throttled up harder, flown faster or slower, banked(turned) harder or softer, need I go on? I don’t trust the government, either, but you really have to pick your battles- and this seems like a particularly silly battle to sit and wage constantly.
I’m more concerned about the chemicals being sprayed directly onto my food that no one seems to care to hide.
Im not supporting any conspiracies, I would just like to let u know that where I am, I see both lasting trails and dissapating trails at the same time, I am not validating any conspiracy by saying this but as I am too busy myself to look into the science behind aviation contrails I would appreciate it if you could enlighten me on this point. Thanx.
They are probably at different altitudes. See:
https://contrailscience.com/why-do-some-planes-leave-long-trails-but-others-dont/
i agrre with you Uncinus. chemtrails are actually contrals. people who say otherwise have never been to an airshow. the only way chetrailers can prove their claim is to take a sample of them and analyze it. let me know when they’ve done that i’it is.d like to see the look on their faces when they realise how silly
Hughes Aircraft Patent #5,003,186… Im assuming this isnt real evidence? Lol.
AtleastIKTT (“At least I know the truth”?),
a patent is evidence for – a patent. You can patent anything. There is no obligation to build a prototype of your invention or even to prove that it would work.
See this patent for example:
http://www.google.com/patents/US3216423
I don’t think anyone actually used this (at least that’s my hope …).
So where is the factual evidence that the Welsbach seeding is going on right now?
To me it’s the fact that everyone claims “chemtrailing” is just so far-fetched and ludacris that the idea that it may actually be happening is inplausible. There is evidence and patents stemming back to the 1970’s, and I’m sure even further, that deals with chemtrails. And different uses for them stemming from all sorts of branches from military, to private companies. The only information this website provides is that contrails can act in all these weird ways that people think only chemtrails could, and I do not doubt that a lot of what we see could be normal contrail behavior, but thats just beating around the bush if you ask me. The idea that governments and private companies have been involved in chemtrailing and geo engineering has been around and evidenced for a quite some time now. And if you want to play the “just because” “doesnt mean they are game”, well then that could apply to anything haha. I’m just here to show there is a lot more evidence to this being a real scenario than theorists just coming up with dellusional ideas.
Got proof?
And, btw., please stop spamming. Doesn’t help your case any.
I wasnt aware that posting once in each article was spamming. I must be an automated conspiracy bot. And what would you like proof of exactly? I have more evidence of patents and documents speaking about geo engineering and chemtrailing if you would like. Evidence that they are doing it at this exact moment? No, im just showing this isnt some made up idea by paranoid people, it is a real documented event and again it wouldn’t be hard to “debunk” anything in the sense of “at this moment in time”. Where is the proof they have a rover called Curiosity on Mars right now? Just cuz Nasa says they do? Just because something could be shown as not necessarily happening doesnt mean it’s not. so the whole idea that contrails are shown as acting in a way people think only chemtrails could is in no way debunking chemtrails lol. And if the only proof you would believe is in high level people telling you chemtrails is occuring at this very moment, then im sorry, you will never have the evidence your looking for.
Evidence that it is actually taking place, and not just being talked about.
And yes, posting the same thing in multiple threads is generally considered spamming. I’ve deleted about seven of your duplicate posts, leaving those that have responses.
AtLeastTKK said:
“the whole idea that contrails are shown as acting in a way people think only chemtrails could is in no way debunking chemtrails”
It does debunk the fundamental premise of the theory however.
The basic premise of the “chemtrail” theory is that contrails can’t persist and spread and never have and if you see a trail do that the only possible explanation is that it is a “chemtrail”.
That has shown to be irrefutably false…contrails have always been able to persist and spread.
So seeing a persistent trail in the sky and claiming definitively that its a “chemtrail” is not a valid assumption.
“chemtrails” may be real but seeing a persistent contrail isn’t evidence of it.
Sorry Uncinus, won’t do it again. I just don’t understand how you think anything your doing is actually “debunking” in any way. Using your methods you could debunk almost anything. Proving it’s possible that contrails could account for chemtrail sightings doesn’t mean they don’t exist. That is very poor science that cpuld apply to any type of case you would like to “debunk.”
I’m debunking the evidence behind chemtrails. I’m not claiming to have proven chemtrails don’t exist – simply that there’s no evidence that they do.
People make very specific claims like: “contrails always quickly dissipate” or “rain should never have aluminum in it”. THAT is the type of thing I have debunked here.
Alright, sounds good to me then. I agree a lot of claims people make don’t help the case of chemtrail believers because they don’t do their research first, but the evidence for them “existing” is there. Are they necessarily being used? No… are they definitely not being used? That’s a claim no one could really prove either. But the idea that chemtrail believers have no evidence to back their claims of them existing is something no real researcher of the topic could say.
And I would like to add a bit on the “patent evidence”. Apart of the notion that the existence of a patent does not necessarily mean that this patent has been implemented, the patent provides sufficient information on the method or process to find out whether it has been implemented or not, for example, has been breached by competitors. That is, such a patent can be treated as a bet. The inventor plays odds of someone trying to implement the same or very similar method in a near future, so he would rip the dividends without trying to implement it himself.
Let me ask you guys this. If I was to show video evidence of non debatable chemtrail proof (actual chemicals coming from an aircraft) you would then have to find a way to prove that they for sure with no doubt no longer exist in order for your “there is no actual evidence of them existing” claim to be correct right? Because finding that evidence would be impossible so until I get an answer for my question above I’m not posting the link. I don’t want any strange answers just because I show the proof before you answer my completely legitamate question. A yes or no will suffice, I don’t need a run around escape scheme.
I don’t understand the question, but I would like to see what you consider “undebatable” proof.
My question is if I show undebatable proof of chemtrails no matter what time in history it is from, in order for your claims of there “being no real evidence of chemtrails existing” you would have to somehow prove that at sometime after the time the video was made that there is undeniable proof that they have disposed of all chemtrail experiments/usage in order for there to be no actual evidence that chemtrails exist currently. I made that as clear as I possibly could, sorry if it is still confusing.
No.If there’s no actual evidence that chemtrails currently exist, then there’s no actual evidence they currently exist – regardless of if they existed in the past (which I’m also pretty sure they did not, but it depends on what you definition of “chemtrails” is).
Now there might be some evidence that I’m not aware of. But obviously I’m not aware of it.
But feel free to show your old chemtrail video, so it can be explained.
There is no such thing as “undebatable”. What can be considered proof has to be put to debate in order to find out whether it can be considered proof. There is no way to end discourse. (Which, by the way, is why conspiracy theories can exist.)
First of all, AtleastIKTT, define your take on the word “chemtrails”, then “geoengineering”. Let’s get the semantics out of the way.
Show us an example of what you believe is a “chemtrail”,and explain what the difference is between one of those and an ordinary persistent contrail.
Then give us your best and most complete definition of geoengineering.
The reason I’d like you to do this is because I’ve seen it before that people call crop dusting or ordinary legal cloud seeding “Chemtrails” and “geoengineering”, which they are not.
Lastly, tell us what you would bring to the floor of the US Congress if you had 15 minutes, what would you choose as the single-most irrefutable evidence that chemtrails or geoengineering were taking place.
Next, read this page to see the best evidence that geoengineering isn’t taking place:
http://metabunk.org/threads/111-Historical-Aerosol-Thickness-Debunks-quot-Chemtrails-are-Geoengineering-quot
Last, see my best suggestion for how to end the chemtrails conundrum which has been put in play, recognize that the major players (Michael J. Murphy & Co.) have known about how to solve this for over a year:
http://metabunk.org/threads/100-14-Years-of-Chemtrails-Comments-and-Suggestions
Think about my proposal, and ask yourself why the folks selling videos, etc. haven’t acted to solve the mystery of the exact identity of the planes, which is very feasible to do.
Get back to us.
Uncinus, do you ever get upset that despite the evidence, some people just don’t get it?
When I was a child in Africa in the 1960s, we used to watch the airliners flying high overhead on their way to South Africa. We would often trace them from the contrails and on some days these would hang around for hours so we would get 3 or 4 trails. These were civilian planes, some still propellor jobs others jets. Of course in the 60s, air travel was still a luxury and military aircraft were more common. Today, the military has far fewer aicraft, civilian aircraft outnumber military by a gopod margin and we are seeing more contrails.
My mother is London born and bred and lived through the blitz. She remembers the contrails over London in 1940 made by propellor planes – all Londoners do, the contrails allowed you to “follow the action” and again often persisted for hours.
It is only anecdotal evidence of my own but in conclusion :
Contrails have been around since the 1940s at the latest
Contrails have been persisting since the 1940s at the latest
Millions saw them in WW2
Civilian contrails have been around ever since airliners started flying high
Jet engines function more efficiently (and therefore more cheaply) at height so airliners fly high
Military aircraft don’t have the same cost restrictions and anyway height takes time so many military flights are low if there is no other danger so military contrails reduced in number after the war.
More civilian aircraft led to more contrails
Air lanes lead to X and parallel patterns
Well blow me, evidence that the answer is probably contrails and I didn’t mention science once!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0khstYDLA&feature=related
watch that if you have not already.
Anonymous,
this video is well known around here. See the discussion:
https://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/
Uncinus, i can’t find my earlier comments.. do you know where they might be?
alright then! thanks for the speedy response.. any reason why my earlier comments were removed? did i hit a nerve?
The fact that Chemtrails exist to suppress human evolution is a frightening one… Is it Contrail Science’s job to discredit any hypothesis that Chemtrails exist in order to keep the general public ignorant of this fact?
I think so..
What i don’t understand is that we are ALL humans. Why wouldn’t you also wish to evolve to the next level? Why would you be working to squelch this knowledge from getting out? Aren’t you human too? Wouldn’t you also benefit from this DNA upgrade?
The only conclusion I can come up with is that TPTB are NOT human. TPTB are intent on keeping the human population under their control forever.. evolving to the next level on the evolutionary ladder will take away that control.. makes perfect sense to me..
Is this why you’ve removed my earlier comments? Because they’re hitting too close to home?
To quote bibliotecapleyades.net:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_atmospheric_phenomena09.htm
Humanity is evolving, emerging from the past millennia of abysmal darkness and oppression.
The power structure, knowing its reign is about to end, has worked tirelessly in a last ditch effort to keep us suppressed. Chemtrails are but one small weapon they are employing to accomplish this.
Their ultimate goal is a New World Order, global totalitarianism and a reinstatement of their absolute power. The NWO will fail if citizens become genetically empowered to wake up and fight with superhuman powers against tyranny.
This is already occurring, and chemtrails are ultimately ineffectual at preventing the inevitable.
Few know the chemtrail program’s true purpose, and most of those implementing it have been told lies. They believe the “mass vaccination” scenario, that what they are doing is beneficial to citizens. Unfortunately this illusion, like all others created by the power structure, shall fall away in due time.
That time is rapidly approaching.
Chemtrails are merely delaying what is destined, and what is destined is the glorious revival of human sovereignty and victory of the human spirit.
Your earlier comments were made under a different post
https://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/comment-page-10/#comment-202565
It’s not contrailscience’s job to discredit any hypothesis regarding chemtrails. It’s to look at evidence and to see if it’s bunk or not.
This is the biggest piece of BS I have ever read. Normal aviation…sure. So I’m supposed to believe that on a Tuesday in a 30 minute period roughly 15 planes will fly overhead making x patterns in the sky but then this doesn’t happen on any other day? Really?
http://conspiracyrealitytv.com/german-scientists-take-government-to-court-over-chemtrails/
Hmmm, that’s funny because a German official says they are real. So do scientists. But a scientist wouldn’t know anything about this stuff, right?
http://www.naturalnews.com/037451_chemtrails_conspiracy_theory_geoengineering.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0khstYDLA
I just seen reddish brown chemtrails, never seen that color before, it is 1:30 pm
57States, maybe take a photo? I’d like to see that. What color are the nearby clouds? I’d suspect it’s just the way they are lit.
Michelle: the planes are still there, the number that leave contrails depends on the weather. The German “official” did NOT say they are real, see this explanation:
https://contrailscience.com/germans-admit-they-used-duppel/
Has anyone noticed chemtrails In this years TV Commercials, Movies & TV shows? All of a sudden they are in everything, pay attention to movies and commercials in the 40’s on up through the 60’s 70 80’s 90’s even up to 2004 you wont see any artificial clouds or chemtrails! although this show in england (1955) was re editied and they put a chemtrail in the movie, the kid showed the 2 next to each other (vhs) and one was the new (dvd) Listen we all know the skies did not look like this when we were growing up. The new thing are these chembombs, i just started noticing them 3 months ago, they are the weirdest looking clouds, when the sun hits them just right you can see some sort of prism reflection, artificial clouds everywhere, One more thing NASA is pushing these cloud charts to school kids now, just so happens some of those artificial jet clouds are on there, i have seen chemtrails turn into clouds, i mean shape wise! they go from a line widen expand then disperse into a hazy cloud that has a prism effect going on! the moist obvious Clouds are white and puffy, now you rarely see those anymore! some artificial clouds on thweremost will have chemtrails in them,
Where is this?
57 states wrote: “Has anyone noticed chemtrails In this years TV Commercials, Movies & TV shows? All of a sudden they are in everything, pay attention to movies and commercials in the 40′s on up through the 60′s 70 80′s 90′s even up to 2004 ”
Not true.
http://metabunk.org/threads/847-Contrails-in-movies
http://metabunk.org/threads/487-Pre-1995-Persistent-Contrail-Archive
My question relates to the kinds of aircraft which leave these trails.
Why do none of the white-turd-laying craft appear on planefinder.net? All the ADS-B craft are shown in America and the UK. Here in Bedford it is easy to see occasional Easyjet or Ryan flights headed to Manchester or Dublin, and some of the long haul flights too. All show up on planefinder.net and none show long plumes of white turd.
But at the same time, criss crossing a very out of the way town like Bedford, we get planes which do NOT show up on planefinder, and are NOT in our database of UK commercial flights, and yet are clearly jets flying at relatively low altitudes, and spraying white gunk like there’s no tomorrow.
So if these are normal planes, why are they not on any database and why do they even criss-cross remote towns like Conwy Bay in N Wales, as out of the way as you can imagine, so that by afternoon the sky is awash with a grid of fluffy white muck?
If anyone can explain how all these normal aircraft dumping gunk are not known to the CAA I’m sure it would go a long way to defusing the outrage that people feel when their skies are used as a toilet, because it would enable us to get in touch with those airlines and tell them, please get on the same databases as all the normal aircraft!
Ian, a town being “out of the way” in the UK has very little to do with anything. This image shows 24 hours of flights at or above 30,000 feet over Conwy Bay:
If you can run it, have a look at this:
https://contrailscience.com/interactive-flight-map-visualization/
It’s not the Manchester and Dublin flights that are leaving contrails, it’s the Europe-America flights. I think you can’t find them because they are lot further away than you think they are, and they seem “low” because they are close to the horizon. Really they are likely higher than the other planes you see, and look “below” the more local flights are they are visually below them, but are really just further away.
It is not a coincidence that people who live under flight paths, will see more contrails.
We were on holiday on Mull in the Hebrides a couple of weeks ago and there were planes passing overhead leaving contrails.
If chemtrails are bunk….how do you explain all the aluminum and heavy metals showing up in our air, water and soil? And no, don’t give me the “it’s natural” BS. Levels are FAR higher than they EVER been.
Do you have a link to some unusually high levels Chris? All the levels I’ve seen have been within expected ranges. Example:
http://metabunk.org/threads/313-Debunked-quot-Rainwater-Samples-From-Alachua-County-Florida-Test-Positive-for-Aluminum-quot
I love being a conspiracy theorist! But, I just can’t wrap my mind around this one. If ‘they’ are wanting to poison the populace…for any reason…then aren’t ‘they’ also poisoning themselves, and their children, too?!?!? If they are spraying chems into the air, then it is affecting EVERYONE. Not one single person is exempt, are they? Would ‘they’ do this to themselves????
I also forgot to mention: I live in the desert. Next town is 110 miles away, with absolutely nothing but nature in between. So, when I am out in the desert, miles from anywhere, what is the point of a chemtrail? To kill the sage? To control the minds of the jack rabbits, or prairie dogs? Maybe it’s the rattlesnakes? What’s the point of spraying chemicals were humans do not exist? And again, what’s the point of spraying themselves? I have also been a sky watcher since I was a young child, and I can say that contrails did fascinate me, BECAUSE they were never the same.
Again, there is no point for the Bilderberg Group, AKA “They”, AKA “The NWO”, to poison themselves. Let’s stick to keeping our water Pare & Flouride free.
Uncinus-
Thank you for your patience and dedication to all this. The amount of rudeness so carelessly thrown your way, human to human, is quite frankly as disturbing to me as sun reflecting particles being contrailed into our atmosphere. I recently began researching “chemtrails” as a dear friend of mine believes in them and posts photos frequently on facebook tracking her beliefs. I adore her and will continue to, but after reading the years of information on your page, and discussing with my husband who is a private pilot, I just can’t buy into the conspiracy that they exist. Also-wanted to suggest, for anyone who is convinced that they are seeing abnormal looking planes with abnormal substances coming out of them in an abnormal way…why don’t you ask a pilot friend or hire a flight instructor to get you up there to check it out. Seems like someone would have thought of this in the quest for evidence. Thanks again-kudos to handling humanity so gracefully and as a pilot’s wife, I totally get the dedication and pursuit of the weather/skies.
I finally had to look up what all this chemtrail nonsense was… since it obviously couldn’t have been the simple vapour trails left by planes as they disturb the air. I have an an absolute chuckle at how silly and paranoid people have become. The lines in the sky look identical to the lines in the sky of my childhood except maybe small variations for more modern type of engines or size of planes or whatever… but the behaviour is the same. I spent many many hours staring at the sky and clouds as a kid and they’re the same. I do think there are some things the government does that they don’t disclose….of course…businesses do it, parents do it, governments do it. I suspect there may be some really interesting things that are known about the universe that we haven’t been told …..but not anything like what most of the silly stories going around are at all. Money based schemes, sure …human greed. But the big sic-fi type stuff…..nope. What kind of a life is it to run around paranoid? What if you got ALL the answers? then what….what are you going to actually do about it? How is your life going to be any better? LOL…many people have this delusion and sense of entitlement. Tell ya what….just chill and enjoy your life. If something comes along to disrupt it, ok so be it, take appropriate actions then. Why ruin your life worrying about stuff you can’t control and that is quite likely a whack of nonsense based on nonsense based on nonsense. Anyway….the description on this website is EXACTLY what I learned as an inquisitive kid….no difference at all….factual and scientific. The rest of you have been very entertaining, and make me shake my head a what a bunch of lost sheep the public have become.
We should not be surprised at all by biological warfare against the population when such scandals have been exposed many times since the 1940’s. Unsuspecting communities have often been used as laboratory animals to test germ warfare agents and some 20,000 covert experiments on civilian populations in the United States between 1910 and 2000 have been uncovered by congressional investigations. Conspiracy? – now that word is really starting to give me the shits.
You are transparent and you don’t even know it….poor thing. We are waking up faster and faster.
We are not scared of you! You, on the other hand, should be scared of us. Because we are looking for you.
So, things being transparent, you can probably point out errors on this site. Go ahead. It should be easy, shouldn’t it?
I have sometimes noticed when I look up at the sky and in pictures that there appears to be normal contrails that dissipate quickly and what conspiracy theorists would call chemtrails that linger for hours at the same time. If how long a contrail remains in the atmosphere depends mainly on humidity then why does this happen?
Aaron Pratt,
this is indeed one of the question that arises when trying to apply logical thinking to bare-eyes observations.
The answer is that we can’t see all those patches of humid and dry air that make up the atmosphere even under a sky that’s entirely blue.
Weather balloons are measuring these humidity variations during their ascend, and even while the numbers they are recording are often not very accurate, the jumps in the humidity curve are telling.
For examples, google “atmospheric soundings”.
All that the balloons are showing is the variation in vertical direction. There is also a variation in horizontal direction. Clouds are a visible sign of humidity variations that are ranging above condensation level.
There is a dedicated article about your question available here:
https://contrailscience.com/why-do-some-planes-leave-long-trails-but-others-dont/
JFDee, Thanks for answering my question. I am glad that there are websites like this one dedicated to dispelling ridiculous conspiracy theories like chemtrails.
I do not believe in chemtrails, but I am still concerned about the effects of contrails. It is foolish to assume that airplane contrails and the hazy cloud blankets they produce are causing no harm to the atmosphere and biosphere. What evidence is there that these clouds are safe? Is it fair that the airline industry is affecting the sky in such noticeable ways without knowing if there are consequences? I personally don’t like it when these clouds block sunlight and cause a normal sunny day to be colder and less pleasant. I assume other species of life have the same experience.
I think the chemtrail/contrail debate is not addressing the real problem. I would go so far as to say that the chemtrail conspiracy theory was created to keep people from questioning supposedly harmless contrail clouds (I call it cirrus smog). When the skies turned black at the beginning of the industrial revolution people knew there was a problem, but for some reason no one is questioning the white hazy clouds created by aircraft.
What do you say about this Uncinus?
I say contrails sometimes cover the sky, but pretty much nobody cares.
I care…but whether or not most people care is beside the point (Most don’t care because they are totally unaware that those clouds are anthropogenic…just pretty clouds that make pretty sunsets.) Something this obvious and prevalent can not be without some effect. For example, the sunlight that passes through these clouds becomes more orange. Less solar radiation reaches the Earth surface. (Can this affect ocean life in some unforeseen way?) Typically warmer days are cooler when the contrail cirrus clouds develop. These differences may seem insignificant, but just because science hasn’t proved anything yet doesn’t mean this whole phenomenon should be shrugged off as innocent. And like I said….overcast days in the desert are typically rare, and a blanket of haze is psychologically depressing to those who know where it comes from. What gives the airline industries the right to alter the weather for everyone and everything on the ground so regularly? It’s foolish to think nobody cares, and that it is totally harmless.
I think you are doing a service to people by debunking “chemtrails”, but just because there may not be deliberate poisoning going on doesn’t mean a persistent white haze in the sky is okay. How would you like it if someone was painting the ceiling of your house with some weird color you didn’t like? And what if the paint DID have some seemingly insignificant levels of toxic chemicals in it? If you stood behind the jet of an airplane and breathed the exhaust all day, wouldn’t that be unhealthy? Just because it is dispersed into the atmosphere does not make it okay for the planet.
That’s my 2 cents, and I’m pretty sure history will eventually agree with me.
There is research into the effects of contrails, you should read up on it.
Merry Christmas, everyone.
tbag wrote:
“If you stood behind the jet of an airplane and breathed the exhaust all day, wouldn’t that be unhealthy?”
Airport tarmac workers who direct the planes, load baggage, refuel and re-supply the planes are exposed like you say. The exposure is to fumes of kerosene, which is jet fuel. The workers who actually pave the runways and our car highways are exposed to fumes of asphalt on a daily basis.
You could probably find research on this issue, but realize that the contrails you see are many miles away, and could not possibly have the direct effect on you there that they do on the airport workers.
Many people have been convinced that ordinary cirrus clouds are “chemtrails”. This is a bad side effect of what they are being told whch generates fear of even ordinary clouds, and is a bad thing to do to people.
here is an example of a man who is telling many people that a perfectly normal incoming weather front is caused by “chemtrails”. It is non-sense and he is doing a great disservice by generating fear the way he does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkMYpHwD1SQ
Thank you for your replies, and Merry Christmas.
Jay, the video you linked brings up several questions I’ve been pondering. Obviously, contrails tend to be more visible and persistent when cold fronts are moving in, as shown in that video. I have noticed this myself. My question is: if jet exhaust lights up(so to speak)in this way under these conditions, is it possible that the exhaust particles(whatever they are…I’m sure you know) become the nuclei for condensation in the greater meteorological environment long after the original contrail disapates? Does airplane exhaust rain to the ground more rapidly under certain conditions? Does it remain in the sky longer within regions of high pressure?
If the exhaust does act as condensation nuclei, would that be considered toxic rain of some sort?
I remember reading somewhere that airplane pollution takes up to two years to settle back the the ground. If this is the case then is it logical to think that the atmosphere is accumulating more and more pollution as air traffic increases decade after decade?(I also remember reading that sometime in the 90’s commercial jets were allowed/instructed to fly higher in the atmosphere as a means of being more efficient) And if so, is it also logical to assume that with increasing amounts of exhaust particles acting as nuclei, or not, that storm dynamics could be affected?
We know that more cirrus clouds are created by contrails, but is there ever an over-saturation effect? Can the cirrus blankets that form ahead of storms affect how the storm develops?
My intuition is that the standard “chemtrail” theory is a misunderstanding of the unintentional consequence of normal contrails and jet exhaust. Is it possible that contrails and jet pollution are having unintended meteorological effects that look, and act, much like geo-engineering “chemtrails” would if they were real?
I think there is a similarity between the reality of contrail science, and the chemtrail geo-engineering conspiracy it is debunking.
What can you guys tell me about this?
tbag, what you are talking about are aerosols. Aircraft exhaust adds some aerosols to the atmosphere, but really a very small amount compared to other man made sources, and natural sources. The pollution does not accumulate though, it settles out in months or years (depending on particle size). Most of the pollution in the air is very recent in origin.
Geo-engineering “chemtrails” would most likely be invisible, or very dim. Only contrails can create the cloud cover you sometimes see being formed.
The cirrus that forms ahead of storms is a function of the storm. It does nat affect anything. So more contrails forming in that region is not going to change the storm at all, it’s pretty much a visual thing in that context.
In general though, contrails do affect the climate a bit. They are thought to cause a slight net warming – so would not be a good choice for combatting global warming.
Mick wrote:
“Only contrails can create the cloud cover you sometimes see being formed.”
The facts surrounding this are interesting. Water is part of our atmosphere in greater or lesser extent. It only becomes visible when the atmosphere is saturated. This is why we have clouds, ice crystals, rain snow or fog.
NO other molecule does this in our atmosphere. NO OTHER SUBSTANCE can produce a persistent contrail.
Because water is the ONLY molecule available in our atmosphere which can reach saturation, water is the ONLY SUBSTANCE which can precipitate or accumulate on a particle in sufficient amounts to crystallize and grow as contrails do. Since water is the only substance which can saturate our atmosphere, only water can cause a contrail to persist and even grow.
This is very important, because ANY solid substance sprayed will disperse and thin out into nothingness and become subvisible, and ANY liquid other than water will always eventually evaporate because it will never reach sufficient quantity to saturate the atmosphere.
This is the basis for the “Ice Budget Argument” which debunks the main myth of chemtrails.
You see, scientists have already gone up and found that a persistent contrail has crystals which grow when the steam in exhaust is within an ice supersaturated environment. When you see a contrail laid into a CLEAR sky which subsequently persists, it is an indication of two things:
A. The atmosphere is ice supersaturated
B. The atmosphere is very clean
Condition B above is important because if A exists and the atmosphere is NOT clean, then ice crystals will have already formed on the aerosols in place, and a cirrus cloud will already be in place. ONLY if the air is ice supersaurated and contains enough aerosols will a cirrus cloud be in place.
So, an ice supersaturated but clear sky indicates a clean sky with low aerosol content.
As for the ‘Ice Budget Argument”, here is an early reference predating ‘chemtrails’ from the 1970’s which found that the ice budget shows an aged persistent contrail contained four orders of magnitude (10 to the fourth power or 10,000 times more) mass than the original ice mass generated by combustion:
http://www.google.com/urlsa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fciresweb.colorado.edu%2Fscience%2Fgroups%2Fpielke%2Fclasses%2Fatoc75002Fknollenberg72.pdf&ei=40NsUO2UK4Tk2QWn8IGQAg&usg=AFQjCNGGiZ_piRGvTDFIvoqfMrOOFupbhg
An ordinary jet might burn one ton of kerosene fuel to make 1.3 tons of steam for each hundred miles.
A 100 mile long contrail will be about 1/2 the distance across the sky as seen from the ground.
But since the resulting contrail can grow in mass up to 10,000 times from water pulled out of the saturated atmosphere, the result would be a contrail weighing 10,000 times as much, or 1.3 x 10,000= 13,000 tons per 100 miles. There is the rub, however, because the largest ordinary cargo jet, an A380-800, can only carry at most 150 tons cargo + 288 tons fuel=438 tons.
Even if the contrail only grew 1000 times in mass by pulling water from the atmosphere, this would require a dispersion of 1300 tons per 100 miles, halfway across the sky, over twice the TOTAL fuel and cargo capacity of the largest jet.
Okay, I see the distinction you point out. Lets forget about chemtrails.
Help me out here: If the aerosols from jet exhaust settle over months or years(like you say Uncinus), how is it not accumulating?
It seems logical that if one days worth of jet exhaust takes more than one day to settle to the ground that there would be more and more exhaust in the sky every day. It is being deposited in the atmosphere faster than it is falling or precipitating to the ground. Please explain how this is not true.
I imagine(because I’m not a scientist and I’m going on pretty basic logic) that aerosols/pollution from jet exhaust, and elsewhere, does accumulate in the atmosphere, much in the same way that plastics and garbage accumulate in the ocean to create the Great Pacific Garbage Patch.
If dust and other natural aerosols make their way into the upper atmosphere, that means that they are being carried upwards by uplift in atmospheric currents. This also seems to suggest that if jet exhaust is continually deposited in the upper atmosphere, 24/7/365 for decades, it would accumulate, or swirl around up there in greater quantities over time like a volcano in the upper atmosphere.
It seems like upper atmosphere jet exhaust aerosols could concentrate like plastics in the ocean, and cause unusual meteorological dynamics that result in droughts, floods etc. Whats your reaction to this logic?
I appreciate the science that is being done out there, but I believe there is a lot more “coming down the pipeline” than scientists can keep up with.
I appreciate you guys entertaining me with whatever you know.
Aerosol optical thickness is a measurable quantity for aerosols, and has been measured for 50 years. There have been significant increases in the past, notably from volcanoes. There is also a background level of aerosols which seems to be maintaining itself. I did some research on this topic and you can see it here:
http://metabunk.org/threads/111-Historical-Aerosol-Thickness-Debunks-quot-Chemtrails-are-Geoengineering-quot?p=12320&viewfull=1#post12320
Jay..you said with “A” and “B” that “an ice supersaturated but clear sky indicates a clean sky with low aerosol content.”
Thanks for the explanation, it helps me understand what is happening up there, and it brings up another question I’ve been wondering about.
Could there be a “C” – high aerosol content air existing above or below “A”? And if C were to uplift or drop down into A then we would get a cloud of some sort? Is this what is happening when lenticular clouds form on the lee sides of mountains? Is it A rising up into C or is it C rising up into A?
While observing the sky it sometimes(usually clear, calm, high pressure) looks to me like, as the day warms up after sunrise, air is rising up and developing(like a photo being developed) a contrail and cirrus filled sky in the upper atmosphere.
What I then suspect is that cirrus clouds can develop from jet aerosols long after the aerosols have been deposited, not just directly after being farted out the back of the jet. There are the linear contrails that you see spreading out into cirrus, but then there are also regions of accumulated jet aerosols(just like normal aerosols that make cirrus clouds) that light up into cirrus when A uplifts into C(what I call D below).
Is it just normal aerosols of the sky surrounding the freshly laid contrails, or could the jet aerosols accumulate into blankets that are developed later? Can science determine the difference?
I’m doing my best to be clear, but I’m sure I’m oversimplifying my question. To clarify…maybe there is D – jet aerosols in high concentration in the upper atmosphere that explain what I’m seeing.
Has anyone else noticed a higher incidence of lenticular clouds in the past decade? If so could it be related to jet aerosols?
Thanks for listening.
Sorry Jay…must have been writing when you replied. I’ll check that out.
Let’s say jet exhaust takes 100 days to settle out.
Let’s say jet exhaust is being added to the atmosphere at 100 tons per day.
Yes, this means that, if we were to start with a clean atmosphere, then the exhaust will accumulate. On the first day they would be 100 tons, on the second there would be 200 tons, etc.
But the exhaust is also settling out over 100 days, so after 100 days all of the exhaust from the first day would be gone. After one day then 1% of it would be gone, or 1 ton. In fact if you add 100 tons of exhaust, and it’s gone after 100 days, then that means you are removing 1 ton per day.
Then the next day you add another 100, and you are removing 2 tons per day.
Then the next day you add another 100, and you are removing 3 tons per day.
after 100 days, you add 100, and you remove 100. There’s no change to the total amount. Because there’s so much of it in the air, there’s also more of it dropping out of the air. At some point there’s going to be more dropping out than you can add.
Remember the clean air act? Remember air pollution in Los Angeles? The amount of pollution was not increasing. There was just a lot of it. The amount was steady. Reducing the amount of pollution that was added did not make it dwindle down to zero, it just reduced it to a lower steady state.
http://news.thomasnet.com/green_clean/2012/10/02/world-aviation-industry-tries-to-overcome-green-fuel-hurdles/
RE: aerosols from jet aircraft. The aviation industry uses 5.8% of the world’s oil production. The transportation sector, in total, uses 61.5% of the world’s oil production. If we assume that aviation engines are not significantly cleaner or dirtier on average than engines for cars, trucks, busses, trains etc., then aviation produces 9.4% of the total particulate emissions attributable to transportation. So aviation is a significant, but minor part of a much larger problem.
Except for the fact that it is deposited in the upper atmosphere. All the other stuff needs to be lifted up by air currents.
Thanks Uncinus…I get it. Is the steady state gradually increasing with more and more jet traffic yer after year? This would account for why the contrail cirrus phenomenon is more common than ever, especially since aircraft are flying higher than they were originally. It takes longer for it to settle coming from so high.
It also would seem that, just like pollution down low, different atmospheric conditions could trap, or keep it aloft longer on occasion? I also wonder if, unlike natural dusts etc.., jet aerosols have different properties that are stickier, or something like that, that would make it collect together sometimes in pockets of higher concentration. Any truth to that?
I ask because you, and others, seem to be saying that jet aerosols are dispersed evenly throughout the atmosphere, but like the plastic islands in the oceans, I think they could be concentrating here and there. If so, could that cause heavily polluted rain/snow on occasion? Or possibly affect weather dynamics? Or could jets be causing more clouds than we think?
So far, no one has answered whether or not jet aerosols can develop into cirrus clouds in the way I proposed a couple posts ago. We know cirrus clouds can spread from contrails, but can they form in the same way as a “natural” cirrus cloud does? I think that is important to know because it would mean that even MORE of the clouds we see are anthropogenic. It matters to me because I think man made clouds should be seen for what they are. As it is, most people can’t even recognize the ones that obviously fan out from contrails. I personally think that jet aerosol cirrus clouds manifest in more than the commonly accepted way. Who can answer this?
I’m sure the response will be that jet aerosols still only make up a small, indistinguishable percentage of total aerosols in the upper atmosphere.
I’ll let you guys get back to debunking chemtrails, and maybe I’ll take a class in meteorology so I can figure this stuff out on my own.
The reason I care about any of this is that when I first recognized how contrails turn into cirrus clouds it really disturbed me. I’m just a guy who spends a lot of time outdoors and believes one should be able to look up into the sky and see only the beauty of the Earth, not the signs of pollution and possibly global warming that threatens it.
Keep up the good science, and consider pushing the aviation industry to clean up it’s act.
Sincerely,
Tbag
You might try looking at an upper air wind chart. Ever watched a time-lapse movie of clouds and noticed that they often move pretty quickly across the sky? At flight altitudes, winds are often at or above 100mph. The sky you can view from the ground is about 200 miles across, so at 100 mph, whatever you see above you might have been at the upwind horizon an hour ago. So, there is far more mixing and movement than you might think. Like my post above, the measurements don’t show any buildup of aerosols, that’s just a fact. Most of the increase in contails is due to the huge amount of flight traffic.
Beaware, though, that they are just water, and that planes leave exactly the same exhaust products whether they cause contrails or not.
For easy access to meteorolgy, join your local NOAA weather or stormspotters, almost every county has a group, and they offer classes for free.
Really, there is no need to speculate whether or not aerosols are building up. Aerosols are a measured quantity, and the data shows that even after they built up when mother nature ejected 20 million tons of volcanic gases, they decreased again to the same levels they were fifty years ago. There’s no better way to debunk the myth of “chemtrails are geoengineering”.
http://metabunk.org/threads/111-Historical-Aerosol-Thickness-Debunks-quot-Chemtrails-are-Geoengineering-quot?p=12320&viewfull=1#post12320
Thanks Jay.
I posted this on the wrong thread:
“Except for the fact that it is deposited in the upper atmosphere. All the other stuff needs to be lifted up by air currents.”
If the issue is the human health hazard of these aerosols, it doesn’t matter too much whether they are immediately injected into our breathing space or come to earth later. If the issue is climate impacts, it really is a moot point, since the warming impact of greenhouse gases CO2 and water vapor emitted by normal aircraft flights outweighs the impact from SO2, other particulates and contrail cirrus clouds. Aircraft flights, in the absence of deliberate geoengineering, are a warming influence.
Thanks Steve.
I read recently that jet exhaust mixes with agricultural fertilizer ammonia, creating a rather toxic particulate.
I also read a good paper “Ten Paradoxes of Technology” by Andrew Feenburg. It does a good job of describing the problems we face today, and why the consequences of technology can build up like a sonic boom behind a jet(that’s my own analogy). I’d like to see science gather enough information to reach needed conclusions, and then advise governments and people to change the course we are on.
I was relieved to see last night a hearing on climate change where James Hansen stated simply that we need to “leave the carbon in the ground” because there is more coming down the pipeline than science has already determined. We need a lot more of that.
I appreciate what scientists like Uncinus, Jay, Steve etc… are capable of understanding. I wish I had become more of a scientist. I hope you all will do with your abilities what is right for the future of the Earth. See the truth and spread it like a contrail.
Tbag
Yeah, I’ll have to agree with some of the other folks. Just why is it you are so hell-bent to debunk chemtrails, aerosol geo-engineering, etc., etc.?? As I am a scientist myself in a hard science field, it is almost laughable that anyone would attempt to debunk the obvious. I suppose all of those patents are bunk too, right? You know, all those geo-engineering patents. I know one thing – people are sick. Lots of people are really sick now. Sick with things unheard of in previous decades, or sick with diseases unheard of PERIOD. I know dozens of them. So let me guess, you operate a site too that debunks GMO? What other sites do you operate and who is paying for you to do it, or what agency do you work for? Isn’t it amazing that these persistent contrails as you call them do not occur over China? But what would I know about that since my wife is from there and I brought her here on a visa. Hummm. Debunk that sh*t okay. I’ve been there several times and for a month at a time, and traveled all over the place there. Oddly, I never saw a “persistent contrail”. I reckon that the air over China must be different than that of Europe, America, and NATO countries. Maybe somebody can explain to this B.Sc., M.Sc., and Ph.D. engineer the atmospheric science of the phenomena that exempts mainland China from the weather conditions conducive to the “persistent contrails” . I’d really like to hear it. Let’s talk about the atmospheric dynamics behind that. If you can explain that away, then I’ll pay for a giant billboard in the city where I work, alongside some of – if not the best scientists and engineers in the world, put my photo on it, and have it say my name with “I used to believe in chemtrails, but now I’ve been taught by contrailscience.com that I’m not as smart a scientist as I thought”. Deal? Look, I can go outside of my home and start feeling tiny, tiny droplets of liquid hitting my forehead and look up, and guess what? Yep, there’s one of your persistent contrails. And if that contrail is ice, as they supposedly are, then why is it falling on my damned head? Even normal overcast cloud cover doesn’t send those droplets down on my head. But I think you can probably explain that too. Alright, I’m done.
Joe,
if you know how science works, then it should be easy for you to point out specific issues that are provably wrong on this site.
Patents are no evidence. You can patent anything without obligation to actually build or do it.
If I were a scientist and would sense something suspicious settling on my skin, I would take a sample immediately and have it analyzed. On the other hand, if the trail is still in the sky – usually above 30000 feet – how come it’s on the ground at the same time?
Lots of people are sick all the time. Still, average life expectancy has not ceased to grow.