One of the more pervasive myths regarding “chemtrails” is that 2008 presidential hopeful Dennis Kuchinich tried to have them banned by an act of congress, but was pressured by the government to modify the act to remove the mention of “chemtrails”.

So what really happened? In a nutshell, Kucinich did not write the bill (or read it, until too late), the focus of the bill is nothing to do with chemtrails, it was written by UFO enthusiasts Alfred Webre and Carol Rosin, who were trying to:

  1. Nullify a vast conspiracy by the “military-industrial complex”
  2. Allow the use of suppressed alien technology for free energy
  3. Avoid accidentally shooting down (or scaring away) visiting aliens.

They listed a bunch of weird weapons, including mind control, tectonic weapons and (very briefly) chemtrails. The bill was re-written several time in less unusual language to give it chance of passing, but ultimately fizzled in committee.

The specific act was HR 2977, the “Space Preservation Act of 2001″, the stated goal of which was:

“To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.”

The initial version of the act is the only one that makes mention of “exotic weapons systems”, listing several technologies that will be familiar to conspiracy theorists:

(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;
(ii) chemtrails;
(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;
(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;
(v) laser weapons systems;
(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and
(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.

Yes, it even includes “extraterrestrial weapons”, meaning weapons created by aliens (or created from alien technology from crashed flying saucers at Roswell), as well as psychotronic (mind control) weapons. Yet somehow “chemtrails” gets all the attention here.

Who wrote this? The original language for the bill was actually created by Alfred Webre and Carol Rosin. See, from Webre’s web site:

http://www.exopolitics.com/

With Dr. Carol S. Rosin and many others, [Webre] is a co-architect of the Space Preservation Act and the Space Preservation Treaty introduced to the U.S. Congress by Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) to ban space-based weapons.

And also

http://www.exopoliticsinstitute.org/advisory-board-PP&M.htm#Webre

With others, Webre is a co-architect of the Space Preservation Treaty (www.peaceinspace.org ) and the Space Preservation Act that was introduced to the U.S. Congress by Congressman Dennis Kucinich and is endorsed by over 270 NGO’s worldwide.

Webre and Rosin started an organization called the “Institute For Cooperation In Space“, an organization whose primary purpose is to promote adoption of the Space Preservation Act. The ICIS states on its web site in part:

Humanity is on the threshold of a quantum leap in consciousness and endeavor.We must now take action to preserve this grand opportunity by preventing the weaponization of space.

We have a critical choice – to explore the great unknown of outer space or to risk continued suffering and disasters, devastation or obliteration. We can rise above different perspectives and actions that didn’t, don’t, and won’t cause second order change, actions that recognize our high consciousness and human potential applied with out-of-the-box thinking and intention to cause second order change, or we can continue the status quo of protesting the old and accepting the same that would only lead us to more violence instead of peace.

The whole site has a very “new-age” feel to it. Seemingly if only this act is passed, the military-industrial complex will turn from its warlike ways, and humanity will enter a new age of cooperation, progress and raised consciousness. The rationale for a weapons ban is never clearly explained. Nor is it explained why having weapons in space will prevent normal research and exploration of space. Obviously we would all like to see less deadly weapons floating over our heads, but is a total ban vital to the next stage of human evolution? ICIS seems to think so.

Indeed, when you talk about things in simple terms, an “international ban on weapons in space” sounds like a great idea. Like a ban on chemical weapons, it saves money and makes the world a safer place. So it’s not hard to get people to support such a ban.

The more well-known face of the ICIS, is Carol Rosin. Rosin claims that in 1974 rocket scientist Werner Von Braun told her “Carol, you will stop the weaponization of space”, and described to her a vast conspiracy by the military-industrial complex to raise a series of fears to justify space-based weapons. Since then, Rosin has dedicated her life to exposing this conspiracy, and allowing humanity to expand it’s consciousness into space. Here’s a video of her explaining this.

The video shows Rosin speaking at “The Disclosure Project“, an organization working to “disclose the facts about UFOs, extraterrestrial intelligence, and classified advanced energy and propulsion systems.” Rosin herself only briefly touches on this in her speech, but it is clear she believes that the government has alien technology, and is withholding it from the people.The other board members on the ICIS are co-founder Alfred Webre, Brian O’Leary and Daniel Sheehan, all of whom are deeply involved with The Disclosure Project.

Rosin commented on the “chemtrail” changes in the Bill here:

http://www.nwbotanicals.org/mediawatch/kucinich.htm (http://archive.is/Q038l)

Comment
From Carol Rosin
[email protected]
1-28-2

Perhaps I can help correct some fuzzy information that is being spread about H.R.3616, the Space Preservation Act of 2002, and Congressman Dennis Kucinich.

This bill will only ban space-based weapons and the use of weapons to destroy or damage objects in space that are in orbit. It is NOT a bill to ban chemtrails and/or psychotronics or mind control devises or any specific weapons listed in the category of definitions in the original bill.

I’m not sure where that rumor started, but in any case, those definitional were only listed on the original bill for definitional purposes…to exemplify what space-based weapons might be deployed in space if the space-based weapons bill isn’t passed. Frequently bills are revised, and things like definitions are removed. No big deal. The legislation is in no way compromised. This Congressman and his legislation maintain their integrity and commitment to ban space-based weapons. It was never a bill to ban chemtrails or mind control technologies.

So what’s Kucinich’s involvement in this? It’s difficult to say. Kucinich is anti-war, so perhaps that’s his motivation. He does have a lot of new-age, UFO-believing, friends, but he’s also running for president. When he was made aware of the nature of the “exotic weapons” language in the bill, it was re-written, and when questioned about it, he said

“I’m not into that. Understand me. When I found out that was in there, I said, ‘Look, I’m not interested in going there.’”

Kucinich’s motivations are perhaps revealed by his speech to the house on May 18th, 2005, introducing a newer version of the bill:

“What has happened to our country? Why are we projecting fear and paranoia to such heights? Have we so lost our way and our faith that we are prepared to transform the heavens into hell? If the kingdom and the will of God is to be done on earth as it is in heaven, what is to happen when the United States takes nuclear fire up to the gates of heaven?
“Such an offense against humanity could bring the wrath of God upon this nation.”

So Kucinich thinks that space based weapons will offend God, since space is close to heaven, and if you put nuclear weapons near heaven then God will be offended and bring his wrath against us.

If you actually ARE a conspiracy theorist, then all this will come as little surprise to you. You will already believe the government is covering up technology based on crashed UFOs. Yet HR2977 is constantly being mentioned solely to make the case that “chemtrails” are something the government is aware of. The reality is that they were simply given a passing mention in bill written by new-age UFO conspiracy theorists and sponsored by an eccentric politician, all of who believe in things that are far more unusual than “chemtrails”.

[UPDATE] Webre, one of the authors of the bill, has moved beyond UFOs to time travel, and recently supported the rather extreme claim that the CIA predicted presidential election by using time travel to get a copy of Webre’s book from the future. This from his blog exopolitics.com

http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2011/05/obama-pre-identified-as-president-by-secret-darpa-cia-time-travel-program.html (http://archive.is/qtyvV)

Mr. Basiago revealed that Project Pegasus was able to identify Jimmy Carter, who was then Governor of George, in 1971, as a future U.S. President.  The program was in possession of a copy of the Universe Books edition of Exopolitics: Politics, Government and Law in the Universe by Alfred Lambremont Webre, a book that this reporter would not write until 2005, but which bears a quote on its front pages of a statement made by President Jimmy Carter.

According to Mr. Basiago, Mr. Webre’s book Exopolitics was, among other written works, physically retrieved from the future by Project Pegasus and brought back in time to 1971 or a prior time.  At that time, 1971, Mr. Webre was General Counsel of the New York City Environmental Protection Administration and had been placed under time travel surveillance by the U.S. government.

 

  116 Responses to “Kucinich, Chemtrails and HR 2977”

  • Dude, I cannot believe you wrote this about a week ago. I am someone who has been {humbly} looking deep into chemtrails for about two years. Somehow I ended up at this same story, just after yourself. It’s funny, a few weeks ago I wrote a post that included chemtrail central discussion of Kucinich and the space preservation bill.

    Sorry I don’t have more to say. I just started a new forum. If you check it out please don’t let what is there now scare you.

    The scariest part for me is one link I just read said that for activists to succeed, they must stick to one issue until they win. The writer was saying that Rosin was an alphabet product. Actually, I found some old thread with a Jay Reynolds somehow posting at a place called Megasprayer. He led me to this story.

    Anyway, my initial thought is this. Why would “chemtrails” be put into even a draft of a bill {not sure exactly what happened}, why do that if chemtrails is a crazy internet hoax, that chemtrails are contrails?

    Thanks, I actually haven’t read your paper yet. It looks good. I am glad to have found this website and am looking forward to checking this place out.

    Thanks for your time, “socrates”

  • Anyway, my initial thought is this. Why would “chemtrails” be put into even a draft of a bill {not sure exactly what happened}, why do that if chemtrails is a crazy internet hoax, that chemtrails are contrails?

    Because it was a mistake. They were just listing exotic weapons, and that’s something they though was an exotic weapon.

  • Well, it has come home to roost now, as “Tell me then, if chemtrails don’t exist, why the US Senate mentions them in a Bill?”

    This topic is PROOF of anti-gravity, one tug on the bootlaces, and up it comes… keep up the good work. JazzRoc

  • more government deciet and cover up ,there are CHEM TRAILS just as there are CON TRAILS the difference is con trails disapate and chem trails form clouds.
    WHY DOESN’T SOMEONE TELL US THE TRUTH.

  • Contrails do not always dissipate. Look in the encyclopedia.

    http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/

    Contrail, streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.
    vapour trail. (2007).

    In Encyclopædia Britannica.Retrieved May 4, 2007,from Encyclopædia Britannica Online: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9074829

  • “WHY DOESN’T SOMEONE TELL US THE TRUTH?”
    Here it is in a nutshell –

    If the temperature at cruise altitude is cold enough, contrails will be formed; otherwise, not.
    If the air is supersaturated with respect to ice, any contrails that are formed will be persistent; otherwise they will dissipate.

    It’s as simple (and as complicated) as that.

  • did any of you read between the lines of Kucinich’s neo christian standings?
    “What has happened to our country? Why are we projecting fear and paranoia to such heights? Have we so lost our way and our faith that we are prepared to transform the heavens into hell? If the kingdom and the will of God is to be done on earth as it is in heaven, what is to happen when the United States takes nuclear fire up to the gates of heaven?
    “Such an offense against humanity could bring the wrath of God upon this nation.”

    I have been doing research on ancient history and I am running into alot of holes. all of which are of course quite explainable, almost laughably deniable, and incredibly sound. I dont know about you but when a ship sinks and they find metal bond sealing the holes then it begs the question. how did it sink. What I mean is that LOOK at the information we are taught. READ between the lines. HEAR what they are trying to sell to us. KNOW that only truth sounds right. to many times we have been lied to and to many times we havent been told what is true and to many times our families havnt been able to give us answers becuase the questions where never asked. If we dont know to ask the question then who are they to be blamed for denying our answers.

    I reiterate. what that man is saying if our minds are in the same place is this. What do you think your doing letting these people know this much. there will be a time when we dont have to hide ourselves and all will be under one rule. if we do this then when the time comes We are going to be in trouble not them. honestly tell me I am cracked and I will tell you that is a radioactive goo coming out. pay attention to the details not the words.

  • I’m afraid I don’t follow you. Why don’t you just tell me what it means?

  • So what really happened? In a nutshell, Kucinich did not write the bill (or read it, until too late), the focus of the bill is nothing to do with chemtrails, it was written by UFO enthusiasts trying to:

    1. Nullify a vast conspiracy by the “military-industrial complex”
    2. Allow the use of suppressed alien technology for free energy
    3. Avoid accidentally shooting down (or scaring away) visiting aliens.

    Your above statement sounds worse than the chemtrail theories… I didn’t read any of the links you provided of course, but I have read the bill in it’s entirety. It seems rather benign to me. Reading the bill alone doesn’t give the sense of UFO enthusiasts. Instead, I get from it the tone of anti-war and the idea of a neutral and peaceful place outside of our own planet. I do agree that chemtrail theory is going a bit overboard on this one, as it proposes the ban be at altitudes of over 80km… significantly higher than most aircraft travel. It should also be noted that the UN has proposed similar resolutions banning space based weaponry, and each time (3 I believe) it was vetoed by the USA. For anyone who doesn’t know, an American veto kills any binding UN resolution no matter how many positive votes it gets. In fact, during the late 70′s and early 80′s a series of 6 resolutions were petitioned for the USA to end it’s humanitarian atrocities in Panama and Nicaragua. A US veto is strong enough to avoid such resolutions, as well as keeping us out of the International Court of Justice and any possibility of UN enforced sanctions (at least under the current UN laws.)

  • Well maybe you should read the links then. I’m just trying to explain where the word “chemtrails” came from in the bill. Chemtrail fans seem to suggest one word is a government admission of the entire theorized “chemtrails” theory.

    It was simply one of a list of sci-fi weapons added in by Rosin and Webre – two UFO enthusiasts.

  • Indeed it can be interpreted differently with added information. I still think it is a good idea though ;-)

  • It never ceases to amaze me how many people use HR 2977 as “proof” that “chemtrails” exist. People are just so gullible!

  • Just a clarification…

    When “extraterrestrial” is used in the bill. It’s NOT in reference to “aliens” or “alien technology”. It is a reference to spaced BASED weapons. Not based on the earth. Such as a rocket launching platform in space.

    Extraterrestrial (or extra-terrestrial) may refer to any object or being beyond (extra-) the planet Earth (-terrestrial).

    -wiki

  • Perhaps, but that simply points out how ridiculous the bill was – seeing as the bill specifically limits itself to “space based weapons”, and hence everything on the list would have to be extraterrestrial by detail.

    If you look into the authors though, it’s quite clear that they believe there is alien technology in use on the Earth right now, by the governments.

  • I agree, the bill is completely ridiculous.

  • It hasn’t yet occurred to anyome that these are the “clouds of heaven” referred to in the Holy Bible. “He (Son of God) comes with the clouds. That’s all.

  • “It hasn’t yet occurred to anyome that these are the “clouds of heaven” referred to in the Holy Bible. “He (Son of God) comes with the clouds. That’s all.”

    Oh great…now “The son of God” is in on the conspiracy….

    Why would such a thing occur to anyone when science EASILY explains the lines in the sky as a result of combustion within varying atmospheric conditions. My car gives off “clouds”…Is it “normal” to assume that “the son of God” will be coming soon simply because water vapor is released from my automobile?!?

  • Sure you know what you’re rapping about, malaka. Representative Kucinich is so busy he does no even read his own bills prepared by some new-age freak, right! Or he reads them too late. Gimme a break. You must be so smart, I can feel it tremble all the way around the world. It is brain deads like you who infest this planet with war and duffering – not because you are evil, but because you are too smart.
    Great writing, keep up brainwashing the nation. Good job, sob!

  • Zorba:

    It is brain deads like you who infest this planet with war and duffering – not because you are evil, but because you are too smart.
    Great writing, keep up brainwashing the nation. Good job, sob!

    It’s all Greek to me…

    (Sorry, couldn’t resist! I promise not to do it again. :) )

  • This is a very useful website and it blows away some crucial mythology such as persistent contrails only appeared from about 1999. Myths and lies are unhelpful. I haven’t seen much stuff on HAARP however and the question of weather modification technology being used to alter the climate is still an open question.
    But what we do see is that our atmosphere is affected by contrails. What I also observe is that upper atmosphere contrail cloud has a negative effect on advancing rain fronts. Why aren’t environmental groups or the EPA concerned about this? Instead we’re fed the nonsense about CO2 choking the planet.

  • Environmental groups are concerned about the effect of contrails on the climate. See:

    http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/sres/aviation/040.htm

    The CO2 concern has to do with radiative forcing, which is related to what happens with contrails. Most scientists agree that the contribution of CO2 is far greater than the contribution of contrails.

    There is no evidence that contrails can affect advancing rain fronts. Contrails form at far higher altitudes than rain does.

  • Chemtrails are real, as stated in HR bill 2977,why else would it be presented before congress. I have been watching them spray in increasing increments over the past 2 1/2 year. I now see expanding contrails or chemtrails on a daily basis like clockwork, this is not possible as specific atmospheric conditions must be in place to support contrail formation.

  • Birdman-

    What are the atmospheric conditions that must be in place to support contrail formation and persistence?

    How do you know they are not present in the sky above you?

    …is it really daily? Is it never cloudy where you live? How can you tell they are there when it is cloudy?

  • HR2977
    HR2977 is creating a “buzz” in the Air Traffic Control community. Introduced last October by Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, this bill called for the peaceful uses of space, and a ban on “exotic weapons”. Section 7 of the “Space Preservation Act of 2001” sought specifically to prohibit “chemtrails”.

    Kucinich recently told the Columbus Alive newspaper (Jan. 24, 2002) that despite official denials, as head of the Armed Services oversight committee he is well acquainted with chemtrail projects. “The truth is there’s an entire program in the Department of Defense, ‘Vision for 2020,’ that’s developing these weapons,” Kucinich told reporter Bob Fitrakis. The U.S. Space Command’s 2020 vision calls for “dominance” of space, land, sea and air.

    Though “section vii” naming chemtrails, HAARP and other planet-threatening weapons has since been removed in a substitute bill – “under pressure” according to Kucinich – the original bill remains intact and on-file in the congressional record.

    CONTRAILS VS CHEMTRAILS
    The unusual white plumes reported by Air Canada pilots, police officers and former military personnel over Canada and the U.S. during the past three years are often contrasted by brief, pencil-thin contrails left by commercial jets flying above them.

    Contrails form when water vapor clumps around dirt particles acting as nuclei. According to NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, contrails can only form at temperatures below minus 76 degrees, and humidity levels of 70 percent or more. Even in ideal conditions, contrails rarely last more than 20 minutes.

    But atmospheric studies by NASA and NOAA – including TARFOX, ACE-Asia, ACE-I and II, INDOEX and Project SUCCESS – confirm that artificial clouds and contrails can be manufactured under conditions of low humidity by dispensing particles from aircraft. The smaller the size of the nuclei introduced into the atmosphere, the greater the rate of artificial cloud formation.

    Controllers across the United States know from their professional training that these chemicals fall to the ground. Without exception they expressed their concern to Deep Sky about possible risks to human health,

    “They want to know what the heck is in there,” S.T. Brendt reported. “One of them said, ‘Aluminum or barium – that’s not something you want to be breathing.’”

    Over the last few months, the controller have been told that the troubling aerial operations involve “climate experiments”. Deep Sky’s family continues to experience health problems, including his young son’s gushing nose bleeds and episodes Sudden Onset Acute Asthma in his wife.

  • Okay, let’s take that as read. Now, is there any actual evidence that contrails are different now?

    Because, to the vast majority of people on the earth, including the scientists, they look EXACTLY THE SAME as they always have.

    CTYF, you seem like an intelligent young man. Do you really think that a child having nosebleeds and a woman having Asthma is evidence of anything at all, let alone a different type of contrail?

    What, exactly, is the evidence that shows contrail are different now?

  • What exaclty is the evidence which shows they are NOT different.
    Lets see some time lapse video from the 80′s, c’mon..
    I want to see a full white haze from “persistant contrails” in LA….
    C’mon! where is it?! they had camcorders back than….
    even a “half white” haze would work for me.
    PROVE IT. c’mon enthusiasts!!! Lay it on me.

  • Well, you could check out this film from 1982 for time lapse of contrails

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koyaanisqatsi

    But, have you read this?

    http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/

    1970 quote:

    The spreading of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent contrails exist from 25,000 to 40,000 ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet.
    [....]
    Contrail development and spreading begins in the morning hours with the start of heavy jet traffic and may extend from horizon to horizon as the air traffic peaks. Fig. 1 is a typical example of midmorning contrails that occured on 17 December 1969 northwest of Boulder. By midafternoon, sky conditions had developed into those shown in Fig. 2 an almost solid contrail sheet reported to average 500 m in depth.

  • Sorry- not every..ummm…concerned citizen…had a video camera and youtube to post too back in the 80s…does that mean it didn’t happen?

    This isn’t a video…or even LA….but it is 1983- and I am sure the physics that apply to the skies above North Carolina apply equally well to the skies above LA:

    http://www.1000plus.com/Imagic/8301sund.htm

  • Your problem was that that picture is in NORTH CAROLINA in the DEAD OF WINTER….
    I was born in GA I know about humidity and NORTH CAROLINA IN THE WINTER sounds like a logical “persistant chemtrail” season.
    that I could accept.

  • Well, you could check out this film from 1982 for time lapse of contrails

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koyaanisqatsi

    But, have you read this?

    http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/

    1970 quote:

    The spreading of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent contrails exist from 25,000 to 40,000 ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet.
    [....]
    Contrail development and spreading begins in the morning hours with the start of heavy jet traffic and may extend from horizon to horizon as the air traffic peaks. Fig. 1 is a typical example of midmorning contrails that occured on 17 December 1969 northwest of Boulder. By midafternoon, sky conditions had developed into those shown in Fig. 2 an almost solid contrail sheet reported to average 500 m in depth.

    Never saw that phillip glass film, maybe i should one of these days.
    Problem #1 Chemtrails/Persistant Contrails are also appear at night.
    Problem #2 Boulder CO in the middle of December…this is NOT LOS ANGELES.

  • What do you know about humidity at 30,000 to 40,000 feet?

    What about other aspects of weather aloft? Do you know, for example, that right now the wind at 30,000 feet is around 95 mph? And that the temperature is around -50F?

    http://www.usairnet.com/cgi-bin/Winds/Aloft.cgi?location=WJF&Submit=Get+Forecast&hour=06&course=azimuth

  • CTY-

    All your videos are from Oct, Nov, and Jan….prime contrail season in LA. Can you accept that?

  • #1 In 1969 there were far fewer flights in general, so what you are seeing is the morning commuter traffic. Watch this to see the daily patterns of flights.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPv8psZsvIU

    This is also very cool, you can see the night pass over the earth, and the effect it has on flights

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-JGlSZPcOQ&feature=fvw

    #2 They probably get more frequent contrail weather in Colorado. But you know this is the middle of winter here too? It’s -50F above 30,000 feet right now. And, (looks out of window, West LA) not a contrail in the sky? Maybe I had them turned off for you? Or maybe it’s the weather?

  • I strongly encourage you to correlate what you are seeing with the daily satellite photos available from NASA. Here’s yesterday’s

    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=USA5.2010033.terra.1km

    Today’s is not fully downloaded yet, but when it does I’d bet they are rather different:

    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=USA5.2010034.terra.1km

  • No way Unicus, the SUN is quite a blazin today. Actually the sky from horizon to another is A VERY HAZY grey barely blue. This is not the effect of SMOG…I know because I lived in the same area in 87.
    Whats the Humidity right now at 30, 000 ft?

  • Sure, the two images do look different. But on backtracking I am noticing a hell of a lot of “cloud cover” from days when the only “clouds” were of the “artificial variety”. I mean really…how is a weatherperson supposed to factor in for persistant aerosol trails?

  • Re: humidity at 30,000 feet

    Nobody knows what the humidity is at 30,000 feet. Because it can only be measured by sending up a weather balloon. The last, and closest to LA, went up at 12Z today, that’s at 4AM this morning, and from Vandenberg AFB, 135 miles away. Back then, and over there, the humidity was 12% at 30000 feet (9144m). The temperature was -48C.

    You can try to extrapolate that to a local reading, but as you can see from the satellite photos, the humidity can change drastically in a very short distance – basically in the distance the is the edge of a cloud. So a reading 100 miles away is not that useful.

    See:

    http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html

    Click on VBG or NKX

    Looking at 15Z 02 Feb (yesterday at 7AM):

    http://weather.uwyo.edu/cgi-bin/sounding?region=naconf&TYPE=TEXT%3ALIST&YEAR=2010&MONTH=02&FROM=0212&TO=0300&STNM=72393

    The humidity was much higher, much more like a contrail day.

  • Re: “how is a weatherperson supposed to factor in for persistant aerosol trails?”. They do sometimes report them on weather forecasts, but mostly they’ll just say it’s “hazy”, or “some high level clouds”.

  • Actually the sky from horizon to another is A VERY HAZY grey barely blue. This is not the effect of SMOG…I know because I lived in the same area in 87.

    Do you have alot of photos to back this up?

    Have a look at these nearby photos from the 1980s:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/terryviews/sets/72157618637307907/

    I like this one from 1985 – looks just like a normal hazy sky like you sometimes get after a few contrails

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/emd111/3639902491/sizes/o/

  • But, Unicus…You said that there should be NO CONTRAILS today?
    How does a “non persistant contrail” condition create a “hazy day”.
    Seems to be a contridiction.

  • Also those photos were
    A) film then digitized
    B) the sky today looked far more obscured, white and GLOWing.

  • Haze is a natural part of Los Angeles, due to geography. It’s been recorded since 1542

    http://www.losangeles.com/history/

    In the fall of 1542, Juan Rodriguez Cabrillo sailed along the Southern California coast and, as he approached what would become San Pedro Bay, took note of the palpable haze filling the Los Angeles basin. As a result of his observations, he aptly dubbed the area La Baia de los Fumos, the Bay of Fumes. Even in the earliest days of human settlement, the air of Los Angeles posed challenges to its inhabitants. The meteorological phenomenon known as inversion (hot air trapping cool air) has typified the Los Angeles basin since time immemorial, and if the hundreds of Gabrileno (or Tongva) campfires could generate enough particles to inspire Cabrillo’s name for the region, industrialization would obviously pose a problem.

    In July of 1943, with wartime production at its peak, the people of Los Angeles began to complain of sore eyes, throats and other respiratory ailments. Los Angeles launched numerous investigations into the source of the unknown irritant. Citizens mobilized in unprecedented numbers demanding regulatory controls and several local air control agencies were established. In the end, it was discovered that the Mediterranean climate and warm Southern California sunshine, both things that lured so many people to the region, were the primary culprits with mass automobile usage significantly adding to the problem. The Los Angeles basin, again, proved a difficult place for a metropolis to thrive; yet through extensive regulatory measures most of the deleterious effects have been controlled.

    More details:

    http://www.csun.edu/~hmc60533/CSUN_311/smog_and_inversions/Smog_main.htm

    Thanks to L.A.’s geography and topography, smog is nearly synonymous with our city’s name. Given that Los Angeles is located on a low lying coastal plain, surrounded by high mountains and deserts beyond, air circulation becomes limited by default. When we add the volumes of auto exhaust from millions of cars (the estimated population of Los Angeles County is 10,103,000), favorable atmospheric conditions, as well as plenty of sunshine to the mix, we have excellent conditions for smog production. Denver, Mexico City, and Santiago, Chile also have significant smog problems because of similar conditions.

  • A) So? You know Kodachrome photos don’t show the actual colors? How do you know what filters are used? Do you have any photos that show how the sky “used to” look?

    B) Than what? Than your memory? Than an idealized version of the based on summer snapshots?

  • Sigh.
    Yes, I know the LA area was known as the “smoke bowl”.
    Ha, I was born IN the 80′s.
    Really, Unicus, you are
    BOOOOOOORING.
    Get a life.
    talk to you later!

  • The definition for Extraterestrial is: existing or originating outside the limits of earth (which would fall under the category of lunar based, space station based or numerous other categories) The bill also quotes
    (II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such persons or populations;
    We have a branch of the government called psyops that specializes in information war and the Air Force holds a patent on the radio frequency hearing effect.
    Another quote from the bill is:
    (C) The term `exotic weapons systems’ includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space.
    And HAARP is an ionosphere technology
    ALL GREAT TRUTHS ARE INITIALLY LABELED CONSPIRACY THEORIES – ESPECIALLY BY THOSE IN POSITIONS OF POWER WHO ARE PERPETRATING THE CONSPIRACIES!!!

  • Can you give an example of a “great truth” that was initially labeled a conspiracy theory?

    What percentage of conspiracy theories turn out to be true?

    Let’s suppose someone makes up a false conspiracy theory. How would you tell the difference between a true conspiracy and a fasle conspiracy? Both would be labeled the same, so you can’t really use that labeling as any kind of evidence. You need REAL evidence?

    Got any?

  • There is plenty other evidence other that HR2977. Here are some links from NASA & ASP both government ran-

    http://geo.arc.nasa.gov/sgg/tarfox/

    http://www.asp.bnl.gov/

    Really no conspiracy, it is there in plain English.

  • You really don’t know what an aerosol is, do you?

  • People keep bringing up these aerosol measuring programs. I guess it’s another thing I should write a post about rather than keep answering the same points.

    But really the answer is very similar:

    - They are aerosol measuring programs, not aerosol spraying programs.
    - “Radiative forcing” is a measurement, not something they do.

  • I have seen one contrail and chemtrails on the same day same area. The contrail was gone in seconds,and the chemtrails spread out. Whats in them i dont know, but if I wait for the media to tell me I may never find out. Good to see that some people still have an open mind and seek the truth. Mkultra shows us what science minded people are capable of. Technology has surpassed our humanity.

  • The trails you saw were most likely both contrails at slightly different altitudes. If you consider the laws of physics it’s inevitable that you will see things exactly like that. More detail here:

    http://contrailscience.com/why-do-some-planes-leave-long-trails-but-others-dont/

  • No comment on the MKultra? No comment on 30,000 kg of silver iodide used every year for hail suppression?

  • Ruffneck-

    Can you explain why in some places there are clouds yet in other places in the same sky there are not clouds?

  • MKUltra – What has that got to do with white trails in the sky. You can’t leap from secret drug trials to nefarious contrails – what’s the connection?

    Silver Iodine is used for cloud seeding, which is also used for hail suppression. Again, what has this got to do with the white trails in the sky? Cloud seeding does not leave trails.

  • “Can you explain why in some places there are clouds yet in other places in the same sky there are not clouds?”

    Such a good question. The biggest piece of the puzzle.

  • Unicinus you asked what conspiracy has been proven? mkultra is one. WMI have no problem with poisoning us with silver iodide is the point I was trying to get across. When WMI deploys their chemicals over me do you think they give a dam what effect that has on my health? When the kids are playing and it gets real quiet, I go check on them, because they are usually up to something they shouldnt be doing.

  • No, I asked what percentage of conspiracy theories turn out to be true. There are lots of actual conspiracies, but they are far outweighed by the number of wild theories.

    The problem comes when you try to say that because SOME theories were correct, then it follows we must give all future theories actual weigh, regardless of the evidence. It seems you are saying “the chemtrail theory is likely correct, because a somewhat related conspiracy happened 60 years ago”. But that ignores the fact that there’s no ACTUAL EVIDENCE supporting the chemtrail theory.

    The amounts of silver used are not though to be harmful. In this respect it’s no different from THOUSANDS of chemicals used on a daily basis, and regulated and monitored. Other chemicals (like, say, lead) are used in much higher quantities, and had more serious proven health effects. Why pick this one?

    To the topic: do you actually think that some of the trails are being deliberately created? If so, then other than “that’s the kind of thing they do”, then what evidence do you have to support this belief? What’s actually different about these trails?

  • Thats the problem with science its always the lesser of two evils,thats the only way they peddle the bullshit. Problem is,the use of the chemicals in the first place,they just dont go away no matter how many more chems you put on top of them. Science will be the demise of this world,its not sustainable. I cant buy the everyday, perfect conditions for everlasting contrails.

  • Sure, it’s pollution. It’s a problem.

    But there are thousands of sources of pollution. Air travel is only a very small percentage of total world pollution. Not that it should be ignored (and in fact aircraft emissions are regulated like car emissions are).

    But your point is that you think there is some deliberate spraying going on? And you think this because now you’ve started looking for contrails, you see more of them, and now that you watch them more they seem to be lasting longer? Is that right?

  • Do you understand how many chemicals were released into the atmosphere just to make your computer?! Yes, chemicals in our air IS a problem, but you are focusing on the absurd while ignoring that obvious. What a shame.

  • Ya the obvious cover up.

  • If it’s obvious, why can’t you convince people?

  • Ruffneck:

    That’s the problem with science – it’s always the lesser of two evils, that’s the only way they peddle the bullshit – This is an unanswerable statement. Who are they?

    Problem is, the use of the chemicals in the first place – is NOT something you are near to having established. You are merely making a baseless claim.

    They just don’t go away no matter how many more chems you put on top of them – How can this statement be true in the light of what happens with the MILLIONS of tons of gas, liquid, and solid ejected each year by the Earth’s 1500 active volcanoes? Wouldn’t we be buried by now?

    Science will be the demise of this world, it’s not sustainable – Without science you would be dead within the month, and not key-tapping baseless and fruitless comments on a machine created by – science.

    I can’t buy the everyday, perfect conditions for everlasting contrails – Then perhaps you should go to a library and discover why clouds don’t instantly disappear. It’s a reasonable argument to me. Why can’t you understand it?

  • did this bill ever pass in any form?

  • No, it died in committee. First they took out all the crazy weapons, but still nobody was really interested.

  • Here we go again “crazy weapons”! This is a typical disinformation technique — laugh and make fun of people saying things that you don’t want them to say. Why are these weapons crazy? Why is it impossible for such weapons to exist and why is someone stupid or a nutcase if they believe they exist? The people falling for this psychological disinfo tactic are the ones who are rather crazy in my opinion. The people falling for this are people who obviously don’t have a strong sense of reality and are easily lead and distracted by brainwashing and propaganda techniques.

    Anyone who has studied physics knows such weapons are not only possible but can and have been made. The laser is an energy weapon. Are you denying it exists? Tell that to your doctor the next time you get laser surgery — that they don’t exist and only a nutcase would believe such nonsense!

  • That’s crazy in the sense of “unusual and outlandish”. Obviously several of them are real weapons. Some, like “information” weapons seem more like random juxtapositions of words than anything else. Others, like “tectonic” weapons are simply speculation.

    The point here is that they are “crazy” in the context of the bill. If they actually wanted to get it passed why not either just say “weapons”, or actually give specific definitions of what they meant? Nobody is going to ban “information weapons in space” without a definition, as that would probably mean banning communication satellites.

    And why are chemtrails even there? Nobody ever suggested there are chemtrails in space. What exactly would be the point? How would space based chemtrails be a weapon?

    And how do sonic weapons work in the vacuum of space? Sounds pretty crazy to me.

  • For those who are so interested in the atmosphere and show little knowledge by making assumption they know what is a contrail and what they think is a chemtrail should seek education.

    link Atmospheric Science Research

    They are the atmospheric science group that is apart of the National Space Science and Technology Center based in Alabama. Those seeking education in this field could write them for a reputable institute to learn about the atmosphere. That is if one is tired of making ASSUMPTIONS about what you see and actually care to understand what it is real.

    If I can find this being a foreign to the United States, there is no excuse for not trying to educate oneself. There are people who spend life studying the atmosphere under scientific method and study samples collected and rule out confounding variables. Their work holds infinitely higher value than a youtube observation and conjecture based on groundless theory.

    A maiden that tells me a chemtrail lasts and a contrail dissipates is basing her BELIEF on what knowledge? It is these forms of ignorance that perpetuates baseless theories that hold no value other than to instill fear and more ignorance. The assumptive correlations between other science projects, government programs, and seminars does not answer the scientific fact that contrails are contrails and exist in their forms. They’ve already been studied. Government programs such as weather modification are documented and studied in universities and applied through open programs. Past government operations of mass magnitude have been leaked and opened such as the ill effects of spraying agent orange. The masses that draw correlations between these and contrails are ill informed and have no evidence to substantiate their claims that would justify scientific study. However, this does not prevent anyone of belief in chemtrails from pursuing a career in the atmospheric studies.

  • By the way, anyone who gains office into US legislature can author a bill that can be as silly as making it against the law for aliens sexually abuse human test subjects. It would likely make the house floor barrel with laughter and go no where, but it would give fuel to those who believe in alien abductions. Anyone interested in this fact can study the Legislative Process to understand its nuances. IF something silly, like the example I mentioned, were to be a serious idea to the author, he would not make it the main point of a bill for it would be laughed off the congressional floor during Comittee Consideration. So it usually gets buried by being attached to more serious matters. However, most bills usually consider matters of relevance.

  • People seem to see exactly what they are going to see (or not see) regardless of whether or not they see it… perception begins within the mind, why else is everything under these ideas classified as an ongoing research into a program called Artichoke and MKULTRA?

    No matter what evidence is presented, these things are happening all over the world.. at least in some places.. and for those who never look and only see what they wish, well just give us the “right to be wrong” but honestly, I would be concerning about jet trails because whatever you BELIEVE (because even truth is subjective) you have to understand that environmentally, we do not wish to be collectively breathing particulates. You would think that the multitudes of governmental agencies around the world would have cut down on air traffic… considering that the health of even the most healthiest nations is being compromised by the air.

    The death rate from respiratory illness alone should make you wonder what the heck we are collectively breathing.. and real environmentalists and people within the WHO should be looking into the concerns of DU and other various airborne particles.

  • “The death rate from respiratory illness alone should make you wonder what the heck we are collectively breathing.. ”

    Yeah, even though there are billions of sources of particulates down here at ground level (volcanoes, sea water, the discharge from every factory/industrial process on the planet, and all the vehicle emissions in the world)… It’s best to “believe” we are purposely being sprayed by chemicals even though there isn’t a shred of evidence to prove it. Thanks…got it!

  • Fox 2 Chief Meteorologist – Dave Murray has a discussion going on Chemtrails, on his Facebook account! It is important that we get tons of people to make comments before he decides to take it down. Please pass this along

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dave-Murray-on-FOX-2/125858287467545?v=app_2373072738

  • Maybe the Chemtrails are part of the Obama Death Panel :0 Thank you Uncenus for a voice of reason

  • “The Regulation of Geoengineering” by the House of Commons Sience and Technology Committee, release in UK some time ago. If you still skeptical about the issue, you should look at it. It’s about 150 pages long so have a nice read. Here’s a link: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/221/221.pdf
    Another fantastic read is this: http://www.belfort-group.eu/sites/default/files/page/2010/05/COpart1.pdf
    It’s a report from Belfort Group in Belgium. Please, read it and rethink the issue. Maybe those crazy conspiracy teorists aren’t so crazy afterall.
    Cheers

  • Neither of those says that people are actually doing it now. Everyone knows people are talking about geoengineering. They have been talking about it for 50 years. There’s just no evidence that anyone is actually doing it.

    (and no, cloud seeding for localized rain making doe not count – it looks nothing like a contrail, and it’s not a secret)

  • So I see alot of talk about HR 2977 or 3613 or 3657 or 2420. So now I ask where is the bill that seems to have this included on it.

    Yes, it even includes “extraterrestrial weapons”, meaning weapons created by aliens (or created from alien technology from crashed flying saucers at Roswell), as well as psychotronic (mind control) weapons. Yet somehow “chemtrails” gets all the attention here

    Now this is where it becomes funny, because all of the full text for the bills I posted above say nothing about ET weapon or Alien technology that was found in Roswell. So if someone can post a copy of this revised bill that would be great. The bill’s text doesn’t change from 2001 thru 2006. Please post the revised bill if you can find it.

  • The original 2977 lists “extraterrestrial weapons”, which generally means of alien origin. If you read the writing of the bill authors Webre and Rosin, you’ll see they believe the government has alien technology it is withholding from the public.

    You could argue that “extraterrestrial” just means “space based”, but then the whole bill is about space based weapons, so that would be redundant. On Webre’s site http://www.exopolitics.com/ the term “extraterrestrial”, is solely used to mean of alien origin.

  • I downloaded hte Belfort report & had a bit of a read.

    In the executive summary it says:
    “Contrails are not the harmless emissions of aircraft at high altitude that only have an esthetic (sic) effect on the sky as meteorologists suggest. They do not only contain huge amounts of water vapour, but also significant amounts of Carbon Dioxide, Nitric Oxide, Sulfur Oxide and soot that have a significant impact on public health.”

    So there it is – this pseudo-science report admits that contrails are just contrails. They then delve into many more esoteric methods of controlling the weather, and attempt to show why contrails are part of deliberate weather modification…..but at least they admit that they are just more pollution!

    The comment that meteorologists say that contrails only have an aesthetic effect is interesting – they present no references supporting that statement anywhere that I could see in the report.

    Chapter 5 of this document, where they “prove” that deliberate weather manipulation by CONTRAILS is currently underway is utter rubbish IMO.

    It repeats the same sort of illogic that is seen in other conspiracy theories – eg Raytheon is a major supplier to the military, failed in its bid to build HAARP, and then bought out APTI which was part of the successful bid, thus getting the the bid back and hte technology that went with it, therefore HAARP is a military project – in logical terms the premise of this particular little argument simply do not support the conclusion.

    Also supposedly supporting this conclusion is a statement by the USAF that HAARP is designed to beam billions of Watts into the atmosphere, and patent 5686605 (I might have copied that incorrectly – there is a patent number they make much of) includes mention of generating electromagnetic radiation in Alaska, which is also where HAARP is.

    Again there is simply no connection between the premise offered and the conclusion drawn – that HAARP is an entirely military affair, as much as the Manhattan Project was.
    The previous chapters of this document seem reasonably well footnoted – but in Chapter 5 we head off into the usual “it must be so”, “there can be no doubt” and “it is undeniable” – bare assertions either without any references at all, or if they are referenced it is to other pseudo-science or conspiracy sources as “proof”.

    As far as I can tell it is the usual conspiracy mantra which amounts to little more than saying “It is obvious because we say it is obvious”.

    Uncinus gets an honourable mention – both for hiding his real identity, thus “adding fresh meat to the conspiracy theory grinder that it might be a government agency”, and for dealing with “any of the websites mentioned above [various chemtrails hoax sites listed previously], reducing the argumentation (sic) of “chemtrails” protagonists to a piece of rubble.”

    Note that I am not trying to make fun of the spelling in the report by pointing out the errors – the author does not seem to have English as a 1st language, and the meaning is clear enough. It’s just that I make many spelling errors and I don’t want any more ridicule for mis-spelling than I am actually due, given that English is my first language!

  • And from the British report:
    “Before deploying any technology with the capacity to geo-engineer the climate, we
    considered that it was essential that a rational debate on the ethics of
    geoengineering was conducted. We urged the Department for Energy and Climate
    Change (DECC) to lead this debate, and to consult on the full range of
    geoengineering options.”

    so, as Uncinus has already noted, this is about what to do in advance of any geoengineering “being deployed” – ie as far as teh committee is concerned there is, at most, only small scale testing going on at the moment – “subscale” is the term used for Russian tests for example.

    all through the document the emphasis is upon ensuring there is a regulatory framework before any thing is undertaken, open discussion of test results and effects, study of ongoing results, etc.

    I find it peculiar that anyone could think this is some kind of proof of a supersecret multi-national conspiracy by millions of people to keep it all quiet when the whole thrust of hte report is to make it as public as possible!

  • tsurfer:

    all of the full text for the bills I posted above say nothing about ET weapon or Alien technology that was found in Roswell.

    It isn’t clear that “alien technology” WAS found at Roswell.
    I may just be a “dumb programmee”, but I believe what fell at Area 51 was a balloon-supported ring of microphones hanging in the tropopause, where Russian atmospheric nuclear tests could plainly be heard, no matter where they were conducted.
    The military didn’t want the public to know HOW they knew about Russian A-bomb tests, so let the rumors fly…

  • Too bad Donny K. didn’t look at this page first. Uncinus wouldn’t have to clean as much spam.

  • Contact Kucinich’s office and ask him about chemtrails. Here is what he had to say in the past…

    Kucinich recently told the Columbus Alive newspaper (Jan. 24, 2002) that despite official denials, as head of the Armed Services oversight committee he is well acquainted with chemtrail projects. “The truth is there’s an entire program in the Department of Defense, ‘Vision for 2020,’ that’s developing these weapons,” Kucinich told reporter Bob Fitrakis. The U.S. Space Command’s 2020 vision calls for “dominance” of space, land, sea and air.

    Though “section vii” naming chemtrails, HAARP and other planet-threatening weapons has since been removed in a substitute bill – “under pressure” according to Kucinich – the original bill remains intact and on-file in the congressional record.

  • “Contact Kucinich’s office and ask him about chemtrails.”

    So, rather than contact him like you’re telling us to, you’d just like to believe something you found on a conspiracy website?

    Hmm. Guess what? I suggest you contact him -> http://kucinich.house.gov/Contact/

  • Ucinus, why don’t you watch the new documentary called What In The World Are They Spraying? BY WORLD RENOWNED AUTHOR G. EDWARD GRIFFIN. Stop your yellow-journalism lies. It’s a done deal. Documented, and on record now.

    P.S. 193 Countries just banned geo-engineering/chemtrails at a U.N. Meeting in Japan a couple of months ago, but the U.S. didn’t sign on-Washington Post. It’s over Ucinus-Anyone who believes what you say on this site is a complete and total brainwashed moron.

    Seriously Ucinus, IT’S OVER-Aerosol spraying of Aluminum Oxides, Barium Salts, and Strontium is all on record world-wide.

  • @Marcus

    He has seen it, and he has written about it, elsewhere in this site…
    http://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/

  • In order for something to qualify as a documentary, it must meet certain criteria. What in the World are They Spraying is NOT a documentary, it’s propaganda.

    doc·u·men·ta·ry (dky-mnt-r)
    adj.
    1. Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
    2. Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

    That second part…about the insertion of fictional matter…means that “chemtrail” video doesn’t qualify.

  • Marcus you seem very confident in your decision. When people are that concerned about something they usually do whatever they need to to protect themselves or stop those who are doing what they feel is wrong. I’m curious as to what steps you have taken to protect yourself from ingesting the chemtrail products. Also do you plan to notify any news stations in the near future? Are you willing to pay for a study to independently analyze chemtrails?

  • “Are you willing to pay for a study to independently analyze chemtrails?”

    I am willing to contribute.

    How can we go about having this taken care of once and for all…

    I figure if people REALLY gave a shit about this problem, they’d be fork over the $$$ for the test.

  • If the sampling strategy is to be adopted as the method to settle the question, you have to accept that any trail is a candidate “chemtrail”, and the one you choose represents them all. Otherwise you have to test every single one.

    When the sampling plane is getting into position to take the sample from some selected chemtrail, ground observers (who are presumably directing the operation) will observe that the sample plane too begins to make a chemtrail. What the…?

    OK, shall we test that chemtrail? It’s equivalent to any other by our assumption about adopting a sampling strategy. We can “test” it by inspecting the plane. That will provide the most definitive and complete information.

    Land the sampling plane immediately and search it for tanks and nozzles.

    None. Hmmm. What can we now conclude?

    There is no other option: The trails are not chemtrails. Probably not an acceptable conclusion, despite being the correct one, and a true statement on its own.

    This is the niggling problem with the testing plan. You will have to test every “chemtrail”…. for ever.

  • This is a Government owned propaganda site. There is no science here, only disinformation and lies. Watch “What In The World Are They Spraying” on YouTUbe.

  • Yes, please watch it, then read this rebuttal for a balanced view.

    http://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/

    And could you point out ONE “lie” here? I’ll correct it.

  • I have been filming planes spraying over the Denver region for over three months now. I have pulled people (strangers) aside and asked them to observe and tell me what they were seeing. It is clear that this is happening and they see it too. Recently I observed two sets of planes one set at the south region of sky- the other two at the north. They flew east to west and west to east methodically. The planes were spraying towards each other. The sky was blue but quickly turned totally gray. You could see an ‘edge’. I call it a ‘canopy’ once the sky is gray. The next day we had seven inches of snow. I have documented spraying simply by looking up when I go outside. They do it so much these days!! MY EYES are not lying to me. I film contrails in the same sky, WITH chemtrails at the same time! The contrails were higher up in the sky than the chemtrails which were lower. Isn’t it colder usually at higher altitudes? If a contrail is evaporating quickly, as I have seen and filmed, with chemtrails (which you will say are just contrails) at lower altitudes lasting for long periods of time….??? I watch as the ‘clouds’ (they don’t look normal at all) appear from the sprays. There are companies who contract their planes out for weather modification. Super tankers. I don’t know why it is happening, or who is doing it, but it IS happening. These planes are not flying from point a to point b. They are zig zagging across the sky methodically, THEN they go to point b.

  • Your eyes aren’t quite specialists on contrail formation and weather conditions, are they?

  • “The sky was blue but quickly turned totally gray. You could see an ‘edge’. I call it a ‘canopy’ once the sky is gray. The next day we had seven inches of snow.”

    I’ve lived long enough to see that happen too. They call it an approaching cold front and snow storm, I think! Why would the sky turning gray be unusual before a snow storm?

  • Hi Elle.
    You say the “chemtrails” were lower in the sky. What you are actually saying is that the LARGER trails appeared lower than the SMALLER trails.
    You are actually falling for a perspective cue illusion.
    Your eyes are seeing similar looking things it is not familiar with. Your visual perception immediately makes a subconscious assumption that the larger looking white thing is Closer than the smaller looking white thing. Because your eyes do not have the interocular divergence sensitivity nor the focal sensitivity to gauge the relative heights of the two planes, you brain automatically makes assumptions of their relative distance based on relative visual size .

    Here is an accurate demonstration of the illusion. Note your surprise when watching it at a certain point.
    You will know what I mean.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0JKGrhtBGs

  • Hi elle-

    it is possible the the persisting trails were lower…its need to be cold enough for trails to form…and it needs to be humid enough fro them to persist….

    It is possible that a more humid layer existed below a drier layer….both were cold enough for trails to form but only the lower trail persisted because of the humidity…

    watch from the cockpit as to 2 planes pass- the lower one in a more humid layer (notice the haze) leaving a persistent trail whilst the higher plane leaves a short trail:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95HS8VQO4ig

    Also- more humid air typically moves in ahead of storm fronts..you will often find persistent trails a day or 2 before precipitation- read this paper experiencing exactly what you did in the Denver area 40 yrs ago:

    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0469%281970%29027%3C0937%3AAOOCEO%3E2.0.CO%3B2

  • I’m 60 and an organic farmer. I know what the difference is because I have watched the skies all my life. Whether it was kite flying as a kid, going to the local air shows (blue angels) at Tinker AFB or farming, because It was a necessity in my work. I’ve always watched the skies.
    These chemtrails weren’t around in the first 3/4 of my life, but contrails were. And the contrails would always rapidly dissipate. Blue skies or else cloudy skies, but never this crappy whitish haze. Never a line across the sky horizon to horizon…or the more artistic tic-tac-toes & curvatures.
    The reason ppl are so adamantly denying it is because they are spraying poisons: barium, aluminum, strontium and God only knows what else. It’s criminal.
    That aluminum will eventually kill the trees because aluminum at the roots of the trees will inhibit water uptake, hence nutrient uptake. Not to mention the rest of the plants out there…its across the board.
    Don’t imagine for one moment that we aren’t having tests made to calculate the rise of these substances in our soil and water.
    This amounts to treason and murder. Of course they’re going to deny it. What do you expect?
    This article is just smoke and mirrors, just a side-track to the buzzwords “alien”, “new age”, “God”, “ufos”…’don’t pay any attention, weirdos and freaks wrote the bill’. yadda yadda yadda

  • Farmer Jones, why do you just repeat the chemtrail credo, instead of facing the science of contrails? If you think that science is wrong, which parts are wrong? Chemtrailers yet have to prove any of their claims to be correct. (Which is probably why they prefer to fall back on unprovable memories.)

  • Farmer Jones said:

    “contrails would always rapidly dissipate”

    Then how do you explain this:

    http://contrailscience.com/contrail-photos-through-history/

We are no longer taking comments on Contrail Science
If you would like to comment, or ask questions about Contrails or The Chemtrail Theory,
then please head over to the contrail forum at our sister site:

METABUNK.ORG

   
© 2014 Contrail Science Suffusion theme by Sayontan Sinha