Hole Punch Clouds in Los Angeles
I’ve talked about distrails and hole punch clouds before, but I’ve actually never seen one myself until this morning, when I saw two side by side. It’s quite rare to have this kind of weather condition in Los Angeles. I took a couple of photos at around 7:30AM today, Aug 19th, 2007. Santa Monica ATIS reports the sky is clear now, but Van Nuys reports broken cloud at 18,000 feet and 28,000,which is probably where these are, given they look like they are precipitating ice in artificial cirrus uncinus. The cloud layer that the holes formed in is cirrocumulus.
Cirrocumulus clouds contain both ice crystals, and supercooled water droplets. The introduction of the extra water from the jet exhaust causes a rapid increase in the rate of crystallization, and all the water turns to ice as the ice crystals get larger. This rapidly desaturates the air, which then pulls in moisture from the air around it, thus spreading the hole. The larger ice crystals then drift downwards (as virga), since they are heavier, resulting in the characteristic “V” or “wing” cross-section of the central cirrus uncinus cloud, which looks a bit like a bird or an angel, if you are imaginative enough.
I like this second one, since it clearly shows the central contrail from the plane that made the hole (look by the palm tree). It’s not quite as nice a regular hole as some you see though. That’s probably to do with the location, being so close to the airport the climb/descent rate won’t be so steep at altitude.
(note, the above images have been contrast enhanced and sharpened, the original of the top one can be found here, for reference).
22 comments Sunday 19 Aug 2007 | Uncinus | contrails
22 Responses to “Hole Punch Clouds in Los Angeles”
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To quote someone, please use <blockquote> and </blockquote> tags, for example:
<blockquote>But surely the contrails would evaporate?
How do you explain that, given those facts?</blockquote>
Contrail didnt do it. A dumped fuel trail did
How can you tell?
I don’t think these planes were coming into LAX, they were probably at 28,000 feet, heading for San Diego.
13 years ago i got my son a 400 dollar weather system,at the same time i got a book on clouds, a national geographic field study guide to be exact, i looked through all the books on clouds at the barnes and noble, all of them, i dont recall ever seeing or hearing about these hole punch clouds– jet fuel you say? i say this, commercial air traffic has been around for quite some time, and if jets or jet fuel dose cause this hole punch , then why hasent any body seen them until recent years? if a jet did dump fuel traveling at the speeds they travel, wouldnt it be elongated? some of the are, but the ones that are perfect circles just dont jive, i wonder if these clouds appear only us bases, dose anybody understand what HAARP is, jets? no———-something else? yeah—-but what?
mark, you should look up “fallstreak holes”, a more common name for the same thing. Try:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=%22fallstreak+holes%22&x=0&y=0
http://books.google.com/books?q=%22fallstreak+holes%22&btnG=Search+Books
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=fallstreak+holes&hl=en&lr=&btnG=Search
While jet fuel dumping could conceivable cause fallstreak holes, I think most are just caused by either natural causes (precipitation from a higher level triggers the spreading hole, which then ends up circular), or from normal jet exhaust (giving the elongated holes).
Fallstreak holes were described back in 1963, in “A Color Guide to Clouds”
Personally i think the holes look like giant squid. but that is just me.
Yes they do, which reminds me:
Nice one Uncinus.
Excellent information and images.
I saw an almost perfectly circular punch-hole cloud above the airport in Bristol, UK, exactly where many of the jets steeply climb up after take off.
What I notice about chem-trail enthusiasts in general is that their text is often so sensationalised, almost screaming, but low on facts.
I could understand if governments had contemplated, or even tested, spraying compounds into the sky (like cloud seeding using silver iodide or dry ice), perhaps to see if a mass-innoculation could be achieved against something or other, but it’s a rather obvious way for us to be constantly ‘medicated’?.
Most chemtrail enthusiasts believe that the purpose of contrails is something other than drugging the population. They think that chemtrails have some secret military purpose (such as long range radio communication via atmospheric ducting) or are for geo-engineering type weather modification. They do think the chemtrails are toxic, and believe that this is the reason for the huge cover-up.
There is a minority that thinks that they are for population culling, or other esoteric purposes. I’d say also that many people simple say that “something” is going on, and support several theories simultaneously.
Can you say: DIS-INFO! This is pathetic.
Does “UFO” ring a bell? Or “cloaking”?
Mr. Donut, it rings all kinds of bells, but so did lepers. Lepers were kept cloaked, as well. So avoid any theory that calls for either.
When there is proof of either, come back and we’ll talk. Until then, a fallstreak holes and the resulting plume underneath sometimes, have a valid, proven, reasonable explanation based on known scientific principles. Which means they are fallstreak holes. Occam’s razor applies.
Anonymous, Mr Donut: definitions for you
“Misinformation” : “chemtrails”, “tic-tac-toe”, “grids”, anything written or spoken by chemtards.
“”Disinformation” : description given to accurate information as imparted in science class by chemtards.
“”UFO” : unidentified flying objects, 99.999% of which are polythene bags. 100% of these flying polythene bags are identified as UFOs by <emchemtards.
“”Cloaking” : Romulan Warbirds are the deadliest of spaceships because they can “cloak” themselves and thus creep up on the United Federation of Planets’ ships without being seen.
Fortunately, they cannot fire their weapons without first de-cloaking, which is their downfall, for Captain Kirk’s (or Picard’s) Enterprise ALWAYS gets the drop on them thereafter.
It’s also what the Chinese and Japanese say that frogs do…
Meterology isn’t science it’s a fraud as is Uncinus, there is no science to be found on this website. Uncinus uses the same specious reasoning as those he criticizes. Where is your data? This guy has data http://www.carnicom.com/. This might be bad data but it’s data nevertheless. Quoting other sources doesn’t prove a damn thing. Anyone who works in a scientific field on this earth knows that data which is presented has been altered and skewed to obfuscate and serve agendas. Weather modification is real, so is HAARP, only delusional morons like Uncinus would believe otherwise.
Uncinus I urge you to pick any day when these so called “Chemtrails” cover the sky to go outside and undertake vigorous physical exercise. By all means breath deeply. I recommend that you do this often and when you start to hack up junk don’t let this deter you continue and increase your effort. Remember there’s nothing to see here it’s all in your imagination!! I’m sure that you’ll enjoy the health benefits. It does wonders for you circulatory system and brain!
Meterology isn’t science it’s a fraud – You may be right… but Meteorology is an established science more than three hundred years old with its own publications, society, scholarship and history. Hard-working, intelligent and professional people work in it. Vast resources are dedicated to it, satellites are launched to study it, and supercomputers are built to simulate it.
there is no science to be found on this website – There’s none so blind as those who don’t wish to see.
Uncinus uses the same specious reasoning as those he criticizes – Not in my experience he doesn’t. He tends to use plain common-or-garden reasoning and leave the speciousness to – people like yourself.
This guy has data http://www.carnicom.com/. This might be bad data but it’s data nevertheless – Well, dammit, I went and checked and surprise! – he’s changed his ghastly format (someone must have whispered in his ear) but not his delivery. I couldn’t find a single verifiable fact. Perhaps you could tell me where they were hidden?
Quoting other sources doesn’t prove a damn thing – Well, actually it does. You see, science papers are published in respectable journals, and are studied, tested, and challenged by other respectable scientists. Once they have passed that hurdle they become part of established science. They may, of course, fail at some future time when new evidence comes to light.
Anyone who works in a scientific field on this earth knows that data which is presented has been altered and skewed to obfuscate and serve agendas – Personally I always knew that monkeys would never type the works of Shakespeare – not even in an infinity of time…. You obviously haven’t worked in a scientific field. A scientist’s reputation rests on his work, and is reinforced when a scientist in some other part of the world corroborates or duplicates his findings.
Remember there’s nothing to see here it’s all in your imagination – Your recollection (an asset to a scientific mind) is too poor to fit you within any scientific endeavor, as here it is too poor to recollect what we have said about persistent contrails.
Pindar-
Atmospheric science is Science. This is a field separate from Meteorology…it is the study of the physics of the atmosphere. It is where you need to start if you want to know about the trail you see in the sky.
There are 100s of peer-reviewed, scientific papers, written by atmospheric scientists from around the World, written over the last 50 years that clearly elucidate the physics of jet exhaust and the ambient atmosphere….all with a ton of data-
…a simple review of the accumulated data over the last half century might put your fears to rest.
I encourage you to research the term “contrail cirrus”
or even: “supersaturated persistent contrail”
Will you?
Why not?
Weather modification does indeed take place. That has never been the issue. Cloud seeding has been done for decades, hail mitigation, hurricane mitigation etc…are all being studied and tested…
…that is in no way proof, evidence or in any way conclusively related to the idea that every persistent trail one sees in the sky is really the result of a global, clandestine, “spray” campaign of unknown origin and unknown purpose…
…”only delusional morons…would believe otherwise. ”
Also- this is classic- you refer to Carny-com and his “bad data” and then follow it up with this comment:
“Anyone who works in a scientific field on this earth knows that data which is presented has been altered and skewed to obfuscate and serve agendas”
Carny-com included, right?
But that is the beauty of peer-reviewed, testable science…one person may publish BS but there will be a lot of others who will do the work themselves to verify and call BS when they see it. 50 years of accumulated data, tested and rested by scientists with a wide range of agendas, backgrounds and origins carries much more weight than Carny-com’s “bad data”. Do not fool yourself.
As someone who lives in area that is supposedly a “heavy spray” zone and who spends a lot of time outside and undertakes vigorous physical exercise- even on days with lots of trails…I have never experienced ANY respiratory effects…ever.
No one I know has…ever.
Attributing current physiological conditions to the contrails over your head is highly illogical, completely unsupported by science of fall rates and dispersal of particulate matter in the troposphere, is not supported by any known medical corollary …and borders on ludicrous.
but whatever.
…sorry…previous post was me….SR1419….
these are chemclouds-clouds of chemicals youtube.com/leharra i am a chemcloud activist
leharra, please provide a single shred of evidence to support your claim. Your lack of knowledge about clouds is so very evident.
Leharra:
How tragic.
If you were to study science you’d soon find yourself short of a career.
I’ll hope for that, for the alternative for you is going to be much, much worse…
Jazzrock,
If you get a moment, watch the video by leharra entitled “what do chemtrails & h.a.a.r.p do ? let me tellya”. This woman actually thinks that “they” are re-writing meteorology books to include clouds “with fancy names” so that us sheep will be fooled into thinking these clouds have been around for a long time. She actually says that since they have been testing harp on Hawaii, there have been earthquakes and that there hadn’t been any for “a couple a hundred years” before that. Can you imagine? She lives on a volcanic island, but thinks earthquakes are a new phenomenon there. Pathetic.
Shill, I had already seen this and come to the same conclusions that you had arrived at. All of them!
This lady has bought the works, hook, line, and sinker… and is quite likely irrecoverable.
I too live on a volcanic island – smaller, I know – but producing the same weather features as Hawaii. The finest feature common to both is (on occasion) a massive overtopping lenticular cloud, sometimes with downwind wave lenticular “echoes”.
Being a volcano (actually there are 84 vents) there is always some seismic activity. One of these vents is due to “pop”, as magmatic outflows here are approximately hundred years apart and it’s been a hundred years…
“This lady has bought the works, hook, line, and sinker… and is quite likely irrecoverable.”
Aint that the truth….
I watched the video and I couldn’t stop shaking my head. The fact that these people think we are “sheep” simply for understanding the facts of science, is too disturbing for words. Imagine living life like that?!? I shudder just thinking about it.