Well, it looks like the cat is out the bag. The secret government has slipped up and allowed the release of a History Channel special that spills the beans on the whole Chemtrail program!

Several clips from this show are available on youtube:

The unfortunate thing about the show is that, regarding “chemtrails” it’s all theory and zero facts. Far from “validating” any chemtrail theory, the show simply repeats the theory.   What’s more it’s basically just a platform for William Thomas to repeat the same nonsense he’s been spouting for the last ten years, totally ignoring both science and common sense. For Example:

Thomas: I think most of us in North America have been wondering about these plumes criss-crossing the sky in grid patterns, rows, and the now-familiar X’s, and many of us have wondered what these trails are.

Well, actually no – most people don’t wonder what these plumes are. And for those that do, we know EXACTLY what they are. They are contrails. This has been explained time and time again, with vast amounts of scientific and historical evidence behind the explanation. What evidence does Thomas give? None. Zero. Zip. Nada.

In fact, Thomas’s entire theory is based on a simple misconception that he continues to repeat over and over, totally ignoring all evidence to the contrary. He claims that “normal” contrails vanish in a few seconds, and that “chemtrails” last for hours. This is demonstrably untrue. Contrails last for a varying amount of time based on the weather at the altitude they form. They can last for hours, and spread out to cover the sky. Any book on clouds will tell you this, and spreading contrails have been observed since 1921.

Yet Thomas manages to get his nonsense into the show:

VO: They first appear to be simply contrails, coming from high flying jet airplanes. But these trails linger in the sky for many hours, some for even an entire day, forming an artificial cloud

It seems that, like Thomas, the writers of the show chose to ignore the fact that THIS IS WHAT CONTRAILS SOMETIMES DO!!

You simply need to read the Encyclopædia Britannica article on vapour trails (contrails):

Contrail, streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.
vapour trail. (2007). In Encyclopædia Britannica.Retrieved May 4, 2007,from Encyclopædia Britannica Online: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9074829

Or read “A Field Guide to the Atmosphere“, by Schaefer and Day, 1981:

Sometimes [contrails] are ephemeral and dissipate as quickly as they form; other times they persist and grow wide enough to cover a substantial portion of the sky with a sheet of cirrostratus (Page 137)

Or read, all these articles on contrails. In particular the one titled “Airborne Observations of Contrail Effects on the Thermal Radiation Budget“, from 1970:

The spreading of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent contrails exist from 25,000 to 40,000 ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet.
[....]
Contrail development and spreading begins in the morning hours with the start of heavy jet traffic and may extend from horizon to horizon as the air traffic peaks. Fig. 1 is a typical example of midmorning contrails that occured on 17 December 1969 northwest of Boulder. By midafternoon, sky conditions had developed into those shown in Fig. 2 an almost solid contrail sheet reported to average 500 m in depth.

Airborne Observations of Contrail Effects on the Thermal Radiation Budget
Peter M. Kuhn
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences
Volume 27, Issue 6 (September 1970) pp. 937–942

The History Channel is an entertainment channel, pure and simple.    They do shows on UFOs, Psychics, Ancient Astronauts, etc, all without any real pretense of being scientifically objective.    They want an entertaining story, and if that means ignoring the facts, and interviewing on the people with the most entertaining theory.

I’m sorry that “It’s just Contrails” is a boring theory.  But it’s the only theory that actually has ANY science behind it.

  186 Responses to “History Channel, That’s Impossible, Weather Warfare & Chemtrails”

  • Yeah this show is a joke and there is no proof of anything here. The History channel is anything but historical but that’s just typical government propaganda for you. I’ve commented here before and I just have to say this. You always talk about the “secret government” like you think that things like that are not happening. Maybe you might want to stop looking at clouds for 5 minutes and see what’s going on on the ground. While they steal your wealth and control your media they use advanced mind control to manipulate people. This media bomb puts Chemtrails in the mainstream which is totally counter revolutionary. That’s why they do it! They LOVE to stoke those flames because it keeps peoples eyes off their dirty dealings. They control the meda 100% and so if anything this little gem should debunk Chemtrails before it ever validates them. But alot of people are pretty stupid! They don’t get it even when they know not to trust the media. They just pick and choose when it suits their agenda. They can’t see how they are being bitch slapped by their own conspiracy.

    The FED is your government trying to pass the reigns to the IMF. Bilderberg and the CFR control the media so this doesn’t get on TV unless they say so. All nations are being bought and sold by multi-national corporations and banks behind the scenes. So stop with your tying Chemtrail/Contrail whatever with the FACT that there is a “secret government” globalizing everything right now. That’s Disinfo even if it is unintentional.

    Shadow Government 1
    Chemtrails 0

    good day to you sir

  • Lee:

    You always talk about the “secret government” like you think that things like that are not happening. – I really don’t believe that to be true of Uncinus, and it certainly isn’t true of myself.

    Maybe you might want to stop looking at clouds for 5 minutes and see what’s going on on the ground. – Been there, possess t-shirt.

    While they steal your wealth and control your media they use advanced mind control to manipulate people. – Wealth already stolen…

    They control the meda 100% – So don’t watch it.

    They can’t see how they are being bitch slapped by their own conspiracy. – Which is nothing less than they deserve.

    The FED is your government trying to pass the reins to the IMF. – Not mine.

    Bilderberg and the CFR control the media so this doesn’t get on TV unless they say so. – But we know about it anyway. Strange, that.

    All nations are being bought and sold by multi-national corporations and banks behind the scenes. – That’s three hundred years old.

    So stop with your tying Chemtrail/Contrail whatever with the FACT that there is a “secret government” globalizing everything right now. – Wait a minute. This site debunks claims that chemtrails exist, does it not? Using science? So what has THAT to do with what you’re talking about?

    That’s Disinfo even if it is unintentional. No. “Chemtrails” are MISINFORMATION. You should learn that if you are in a war and wish to WIN, then your first requirement is GOOD INTELLIGENCE.

    “CHEMTRAILS” (being non-existent) are LOUSY intelligence.

  • You’ll notice I did not put the word “secret government” in quotes.

    I think it’s highly likely that there are individuals and groups in positions of power that make decisions that are intended to benefit themselves. Some of these are fairly obvious.

    What I’d dispute is this clear picture that people try to portray, of the Federal Reserve, and the CFR and the Bildebergers being some kind of global cabal with a specific agenda. I think there’s just a bunch of rich and powerful people who want to stay rich and powerful. Occasionally they will tacitly collude. But is there some worldwide organization that has deliberately created the “chemtrail” myth, and uses their total control of the media to fan the flames with History channel shows in order to distract from their greater evil? I see nothing at all to suggest that. “Chemtrails”, and other conspiracy theories, need no help from the powers-that-be to get traction. It’s always been like this. People like to believe in things. The History channel likes to get viewers. That’s all there is evidence for.

  • Hello,

    I have a question for whomever is in charge of this website.

    Please explain one phenomenon I just witnessed, if you would.

    On a hot, dry afternoon (about 2:30), in a totally clear blue sky over the Rocky Mountains in New Mexico, a small smudge is noticed. It has no definite shape. It looks like cloud vapor. It looks smeared and a little dirty. It does not resemble any naturally occurring cloud. It has no edges, but looks like something blurry hanging incongruously high up in the air.

    It is not fog. It is not rising up out of the mountains. It is not one of the first clouds that regularly appear over the mountains early in the day, which mean it will later rain as the clouds quickly roll in from the desert and gather over the mountains, eventually producing a monsoon. All these things are very familiar to anyone who lives here.

    Again, it is high in the sky — which is otherwise perfectly clear.

    Within ten minutes, the smear has grown to triple its original size. It has simply expanded in all directions, but remains fuzzy, undefined, murky looking. It is now a very large suspended glob in the middle of the sky.

    The glob then proceeds to literally EJECT cloud vapor.

    The cloud vapor comes POURING out of the glob in the sky, heading East, in a sheet.

    The cloud vapor spreads rapidly across the sky — emanating completely from the amorphous blob, which is now very big, maybe six or seven times its original size, or larger.

    So now, we have a huge amorphous blob of murky vapor, from which is pouring a thin sheet of white vapor, extended like an arm across the sky.

    The people who have parked their cars to watch this occurrence now see a few white jets appear.

    As they fly by, long white trails extend from the plane, and within about five minutes, nine parallel lines have been laid out alongside and within the long sheet of vapor extending from the original blob.

    Finally one of the planes lays one extremely long trail across all the other parallel trails — almost as if sowing them together.

    Then the planes disappear, and the blob ceases to produce any more vapor.

    All the vapor in the sky lingers for the rest of the day.

    If this is a natural occurrence, please tell me what it was. I have never seen anything like it in my life.

  • It sounds like clouds forming in the east, possibly with a lenticular cloud (the “glob”), and then some contrails.

    But really it’s hard to tell without photos. Time lapse video is also very revealing. Have a look at some of these:

    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=timelapse+lenticular+contrails&search_type=&aq=f

    This one in particular looks quite “glob”-like:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5siFGdBZks

  • I know that it sounds like a lenticular cloud, if anything. And you’re right, you need to see photos.

    But it wasn’t a lenticular cloud. In ten years of living in these mountains and watching the sky constantly I’ve never seen anything like it.

    I posted two other comments to this site last night and now I don’t see them. Did I forget where I posted them, or did you not allow them up for some reason?

  • Comments show up under the post they were posted on. They can take some time to be approved, a couple of days sometime, if I’m away. But I think your comments are there, just look the “Feedback” section in the left column, your comments are listed there.

    http://contrailscience.com/chemtrail-myths/comment-page-9/#comment-26042

    Sometime comments go into the spam folder, and I don’t check that very often, so if you suspect that you can email me.

  • No, I found them under Chemtrail Myths. Thanks.

  • Uncinus wrote:

    What I’d dispute is this clear picture that people try to portray, of the Federal Reserve, and the CFR and the Bildebergers being some kind of global cabal with a specific agenda. I think there’s just a bunch of rich and powerful people who want to stay rich and powerful. Occasionally they will tacitly collude.

    ——–

    I have to laugh. While I do not blindly believe all the crap conspiracy theory out there — especially the likes of David Icke and others, who are ridiculous — when I read a comment like “occasionally they will tacitly collude” it makes me choke on my coffee.

    Come on, Uncinus. Let’s be grown ups. You seem like a smart guy. Common sense will inform you as to how the world works. You are right that there are a bunch of rich and powerful people who want to stay that way. But they do not just occasionally collude. THAT’S ALL THEY DO.

    The collusion of powerful people is what runs politics and the economy, the military industrial complex, and every secret program and covert war. These people operate on a level far beyond what most poor shmucks can imagine as they sit in front of their TV scratching their balls and swilling beer and wondering why everyone they know is poor or sick, or both.

    The rich and powerful are a force that controls life on this planet. They control politicians, corporations, and the mainstream media. I don’t believe they control everything at all moments or that they are invincible or that they are aliens or that they are all Satanists who drink the blood of the children, etc, etc . . But to belittle their true power and unity in the real world is a dangerous absurdity.

    Collusion and conspiracy and necessary secrecy is the name of the game, every day, at the top levels of power.

  • Okay then, lets assume that’s true. Let’s also assume that the government has a secret weather modification program. Now, what evidence is there that contrails are any different to how they have always been? Because that’s really the bottom line here. Either they have changed or they have not. If they have not, then the chemtrail theory is bunk, and you are just left with a non-specific they-are-probably-doing-it weather modification theory.

    And by evidence, I mean photos, videos, measurements, etc. If you go by millions of eyewitness accounts, you’d also have to admit ghosts, angels, UFOs and Bigfoot into the equation.

  • THAT’S ALL THEY DO.

    That is simply not true.

    (talk about choking on coffee)

    History is riddled with rich and powerful people COMPETING with each other for their own ends and means…

    Et Tu Brutus??

    Surely you are not that naive.

  • First, SR1419 . . .

    No, I am not naive. A lot of other things, maybe, but not naive.

    Of course the rich and powerful compete, that isn’t at issue. But when do they not compete? They don’t compete when they are working together to keep everyone else down.

    It’s like the two supposed political parties in the US. They differ on many issues, often more than intheory than in practice, but on some levels they are definitely separate parties. But look at how often they cross all party lines to work together to further the interests of who? The wealthy and powerful.

    Foreign policy, economic globalization, the War on Drugs and Terror and whatever else, the increase in prisons and the prison population — this has all continued along pretty much the same lines for a long time, regardless of the party in power, who controls Congress.

    The powerful seem to play good cop, bad cop a lot — the Democrats are sort of the nicer cop who might get you an extra blanket for the cold night in your cell — the Republicans are the cops who will beat your head in with a gun butt — but in the end, it’s the same prison, and you’re still not the one in charge.

    Like George W. Bush said — on camera — the “elites” are his base.

    Well, they’re Obama’s base too, and every other politician. The rest of the people are simply appeased and entertained as much as possible, until they have to be tasered.

    Anyway.

    Yes, the rich and powerful compete — they also kill each other and destroy each other’s empires — but if the rabble start to really rise up, they will align to put them down however they can.

    Whereas the Communists just tried to harness the energy of the rabble to destroy their own enemies . . .

    But I’m digressing.

    And I’m sure you get my point.

    When I say the rich and powerful collude all the time, I’m not talking only about back room, underground conspiracies. I’m talking about being “in the club” and associating with each other all the time, making deals constantly, business or otherwise, legal and illegal, or a little of both, and helping each other get around the rules all the dumbasses at the bottom have to follow.

    That’s all — it’s just all that they do. And if they have to lie, they lie. They control judges and politicians, and the editors of all the major news sources.

    However, this is all really common sense — of COURSE they do. What the fuck do you think being rich and powerful is about, anyway?? Having to stand in line? Having to answer up? Having to play by the rules?

    No. That is for peasants, not the stunningly wealthy people who live on a plane very different from anyone else.

    It doesn’t mean they are immune, and they can be brought down, but mostly they will rise back up again. Why? Because they’re rich, and powerful . . . Someone has to be.

  • Uncinus wrote:

    Okay then, lets assume that’s true. Let’s also assume that the government has a secret weather modification program. Now, what evidence is there that contrails are any different to how they have always been? Because that’s really the bottom line here. Either they have changed or they have not. If they have not, then the chemtrail theory is bunk, and you are just left with a non-specific they-are-probably-doing-it weather modification theory.

    And by evidence, I mean photos, videos, measurements, etc. If you go by millions of eyewitness accounts, you’d also have to admit ghosts, angels, UFOs and Bigfoot into the equation.

    — You ask what evidence there is that chemtrails are different from contrails.
    I actually answered that same question on another post earlier today, and I don’t want to rewrite the whole thing. If I find it I”ll repost it here.

    But one problem is that I don’t have measurements. I wish I did, but I don’t know how to get them. And the reasons why are obvious, I don’t have access to those kinds of resources. And if you go by my wacky conspiracy theory, the reason no major studies exist is because no gov’t agency will get funded to do it — cause it’s secret.

    There are literally thousands of photos, I’m sure you’ve seen them. If you don’t find anything strange in them, then you and I have a profound difference in our perceptual realities.

    And as far as ghosts, angels, UFOs and Bigfoot goes, I have no reason whatsoever to deny the existence of these things. Ghosts I’ve experienced myself, angels I HOPE are true (that would be nice, wouldn’t it?), UFOs are only unidentified objects — which could be anything, so who knows? they’re undentified! — and Bigfoot . . . well, listen, stranger things have happened. It’s a big planet, there could be some weird stuff hiding in the wild places.

    What I do know is that all of the things listed above are kind of interesting and sexy in a way — but not chemtrails. Everyone I know who “believes” in them wishes to god they’d go away so they could stop thinking about them.

  • There are literally thousands of photos, I’m sure you’ve seen them. If you don’t find anything strange in them, then you and I have a profound difference in our perceptual realities.

    Do you have any examples? Please, pick what you consider to be the most inexplicable photo, so I can see what you are talking about. Because everything I’ve seen looks like a contrail. Show me something that does not (and make sure you check “Clouds of the World” first, to make sure it’s not in there).

    No need to debate the shadow government(s), just take that as read, and we’ll go from there. This site is about contrails, and the chemtrail theory.

  • In order to do that, I would have to go searching. This is actually the first chemtrail board I’ve been part of in years, because I had to drop the whole thing to save my sanity for a while. I left the country and was living in Mexico, where I never saw one chemtrail, and it was lovely.

    So I don’t have links anymore to my favorite grid pix, I’d have to go searching online, and we both know it won’t matter — you will tell me everything in the picture is normal. I can save you the effort.

    And I agree with you that chemtrails look a whole lot like contrails. Because I’m sure they are, in part, actually contrails. They are vapor trails — but what is included in that vapor? And why?

  • And Uncinus — you can’t easily separate the issue of a shadow government from the chemtrail issue, can you? I mean, if the latter is true, the former essentially needs to be true, to carry it off.

  • By checkthemap,
    “What I do know is that all of the things listed above are kind of interesting and sexy in a way — but not chemtrails. Everyone I know who “believes” in them wishes to god they’d go away so they could stop thinking about them.”

    If that were true, chemtrailers would actually read this site with an open mind and realize that everything people claim to be chemtrail related: x’s, grids, curving contrails, spreading & persisting contrails etc are the atmosphere’s reaction to a jet airplane flying through it (with the right set of conditions). They would also realize that “chemclouds” “black clouds” and sundog type phenomena, are nothing more than natural. They’re clouds & the sun passing through ice crystals, which people have never bothered to notice before. Wave clouds, street clouds, sundogs, halos, clouds between the observer and the Sun which they view as “dark and unnatural”.

    It’s plain to see that most of the chemtrailer/chemcloud believers aren’t nearly as open minded as they claim to be. If they were, they wouldn’t purposely dismiss scientific & meterological explanations and over 60 years of photographic evidence. Yet they blindly accept the existance of “chemtrails” without one shred of hard evidence.

  • Uncinus, can you comment as to why the clouds on the left side of this aerial map are arranged in straight lines?

    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=AERONET_CCNY.2009209.terra.250m

  • There are several ways in in which clouds form straight line, but basically it boils down to air essentially being a fluid, and forming waves. Under some conditions, the waves are parallel. See:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_cloud

    Also, different, yet related:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_street

    The rows of clouds are not always contiguous, as you can see. And it’s nothing new, here’s some from 1905:

    http://picasaweb.google.com/Uncinus/CloudStudies1905And1925#

  • First,

    There are several ways in in which clouds form straight line, but basically it boils down to air essentially being a fluid, and forming waves.

    so 2+2 = 5 does it?

    That is a very blatant misrepresentation, and thought I would think it silly to necessitate a notation, let’s throw it in just to cover all bases.

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_air_a_gas_or_liquid

    Second, your Arthur Hayden picture is mislabelled. The correct name for parallel line cloud formations is Altostratus Undulatus, an easy typo for the editor in 1925 to make. This formation is very rare, and primarily precipitates bad weather such as rainfall.

    One of the best tools for climatologists, meteorologists, and interested lay-people is the book “The Weather Wizard Cloud Book”. In it, you will find all the tools necessary to understand weather patterns in a time-tested and history proven way with tons of high-quality photographs.
    Nowhere in the book are examples of contrails-turned-super cloud formations, even though the work was developed even into the 1980′s.
    Any attempt to discredit the integrity, and contribution to the science of meteorology by Louis Rubin, will be an abject and epic failure. For, as anybody truly in the field of study will tell you the ‘Wythe Avenue Weather Wizard’ could call it like no other.

    And lastly,

    The case for aerosol saturation of the environment with toxic heavy metals for use with cutting-edge communications and weapons projects involving HAARP and similar programs are just too much to ignore.
    For instance, the Eastland patent of which I know you are aware, which yet again outlines plans for barium dispersal. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4686605.html

    Some other threads we could pull on if we had more clearance are here:

    http://www.dtic.mil/srch/doc?collection=t3&id=AD0739194 {{Studies of Barium Excitation by Molecular Beam Magnetic Resonance Techniques.}}

    http://www.dtic.mil/srch/doc?collection=t3&id=ADA121087 {{Numerical Simulation of a Possible Freezing and Sheet Formation Mechanism for Barium Cloud Striations.}}

    Additionally, other military programs outline the use of barium oxide and aluminum oxide for propagating EMF waves. If you read the Eastland patent (found here again or at another website of your choice http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4686605.html ) then you would be aware of this being ‘proposed’ over 20 years ago.

    Are we to assume the military has just been sitting on its hands in regards to this type of technology?

    There are just too many official sources outlining the use of such materials. Some I have posted above, others like this patent from Bernard Eastland (which I am aware has been presented to you before…) can be directly backed up with videos such as this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxRnkfvO_EU

    I am taking the temporary position that con/chemtrails need not necessarily be part of any plan for global depopulation per se, and that will allow us to focus on their application as part of a possible undisclosed program aimed at command and control of the global airspace, both atmospheric and electromagnetic.

    Again, that video is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxRnkfvO_EU

    If in fact the military security apparatus is using a top-level program to modify the conditions of the battlespace (which they have always done as far as they could reach), and either military or commercial aircraft (or a combination) are being employed to meet their objectives, then we should more closely examine the issue.
    Is there any reason we should not? Especially when the consequences for detrimental effects on lifeforms exist, completely unintentional or otherwise.

    Would you argue against it?

    So, again…

    just for the sake of a new tact, let’s remind ourselves to leave behind any notion or suspicion regarding biological experimentation using contrails as a vehicle for delivery.

    We are now completely focusing on the much firmer ground that support the existence of a top-level command/control operation involving atmospheric and electromagnetic programs, which are potentially using aerosols as part of said programs.

    What can we make of that, Uncinus and clique?

    TO CHECKTHEMAP:

    I applaud your approach and perspective. Please contact me on my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/sovereignpatriotusa for further discussion if possible.

    Remain Vigilant! Stay Sovereign

    SPUSA

  • And one other point;

    As somebody else noted before, there’s no way you can live a normal life and run this board the way you do.

    In other words, since you are nearly omnipresent here (to the point where I noticed several other similar observations from other contributors), how can you physically eat, sleep, shit, and have sex, AND have time left over to manage this site? You can’t, and that means one of those four things is missing from your lifestyle.

    Just sayin’.

    Kudos again for Checkthemap, for his (or her) succinct points.

    Still waiting on you to debunk the work and words of Mr. Eastland and others in that video….(rustles up some wok made popcorn in amused anticipation).

    Remain Vigilant. Stay Sovereign!!

  • Oh it really does not take up very much time. Less than half an hour total, on average, per day. Today was busier, but really I probably still only spent around an hour total on this site. So I’ve lots of time for other activities.

    Eastlund did not mention contrails, or chemtrails. So what was it you were hoping I’d address?

  • Uncinus,

    Why are my posts being censored??

    Post # 20 should be the VERY LONG post with all the links about Eastland, and the connection to Chemtrails.

    Where did that thing which took me an hour to write (amidst all the business on my own end) go??

    On your other page too, the WWII contrails…..I had a very long response and it seems not to have made it?

    Without the posts in correct order, the little addendum that you have positioned at #20 doesn’t make much sense or have any of the sequitur context that it should.

    What gives Uncinus?

  • Posts with a lot of comments get automatically marked as spam. Sorry about that, it’s a WordPress feature – but you either leave it switched on, or get lots of real spam. I can usually retrieve them, and I have for your long posts. If it happens again, anyone can email me at [email protected] , and I’ll try to retrieve any lost post.

  • First,

    There are several ways in in which clouds form straight line, but basically it boils down to air essentially being a fluid, and forming waves.

    so 2+2 = 5 does it?

    That is a very blatant misrepresentation, and thought I would think it silly to necessitate a notation, let’s throw it in just to cover all bases.

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_air_a_gas_or_liquid

    Second, your Arthur Hayden picture is mislabelled. The correct name for parallel line cloud formations is Altostratus Undulatus, an easy typo for the editor in 1925 to make. This formation is very rare, and primarily precipitates bad weather such as rainfall.

    Air is a fluid. I never said it was liquid, I said it was a fluid:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=is+air+a+fluid

    As a fluid it has waves and flows much like a liquid does, which results in regular wave-like features in cloud layers. See also:

    http://www.amazon.com/Fluid-Mechanics-Atmosphere-International-Geophysics/dp/0121370402

    From the introduction:

    I don’t think the Hayden photo is mislabeled exactly. The names of clouds went through several evolutions which varied by country, and were not settled at Hayden’s time. Many of the photos had clouds names that don’t exactly match the modern usage. He actually proposed his own name for some cloud types. It’s an interesting book, you can read it in PDF form.

  • Uncinus,

    Ahh, I did misread ‘fluid’ for ‘liquid’. Point noted and retracted.

    Thank you for putting the posts in correct order this morning.

    Still, the correct term is Altostratus Undulatus. As in ‘undulate’ from latin ‘undula’ meaning small wave-like form, the clouds rarely and occasionally form wavelike sheets, which again, are nearly always followed by heavy rainfall.

    And, as for Eastland and HAARP related programs, it is not even important that the new popular buzzword ‘Chemtrails’ is not mentioned. What’s important is the description of the program and its applications.

    If the lay-term for aerosol operations is ‘chemtrails’, so be it. Does this discount that there are aerosol operations underway? That there have been? That it only makes strategic sense for there to be in the future?

    The proof is in the scholarly white-papers that may be found with research, and in the thousands of pictures that cannot be explained away as cirrus or altostratus undulatus formations.

    How can you reach the foregone conclusion that you are in a position to tell us with any authority that no operations are underway? I have asked you what your military clearance is before, and your education, professional background, and personal affiliations and associations. You didn’t answer.

    In the face of so much documented government hijinks in this and other areas, how can you be so steadfast in your assumption that there is no pink elephant in the middle of the room?

    Also, since Dr. Hildegarde Staninger has done some work on the dispersal of RFID ‘smart dust’ for satellite based 3-D imaging and logistics, you may as well watch this other video which covers it some about half-way through.
    Are you denying this technology exists too, and that aerial dispersal is the most likely vector?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWTWTHunPkk

    These are all different, compartmentalized yet synergistic elements of a top-level command/control operation that is currently publicly classified and undisclosed.

    How can I say it’s so? How can you say it’s not?

    Remain Vigilant! Stay Sovereign!!

  • But my point here is that the supposed “chemtrails” don’t look any different from contrails. If you can’t show that they are different, then all the other stuff is an entirely different topic.

    So please, focus on that. You mention “the thousands of pictures that cannot be explained away as cirrus or altostratus undulatus formations”, I presume you mean photos of suspicious contrails, which I’ve already addressed.

    Perhaps you could give an example?

    (And I’ll be setting off on a trip shortly, for a couple of weeks, comments will be automatically approved, but I’d appreciate it if you could stay on topic – contrails vs. chemtrails).

  • From ‘Unilateral Geoengineering’ authored by the Council on Foreign Relations, 2008.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/13725689/Unilateral-Geoengineering-2009

    “Applied to geoengineering, various technologies could be used to loft particles into the
    stratosphere, such as naval guns, rockets, hot air balloons or blimps, or a fleet of high-flying
    aircraft. Potential types of particles for injection include sulfur dioxide, aluminum
    oxide dust or even designer self-levitating aerosols that might be engineered to migrate to
    particular regions (e.g. over the arctic) or to rise above the stratospher (so as not to
    interfere in stratospheric chemistry). Because of the relative horizontal stability of the
    stratosphere compared to the troposphere, the residence time of injected particles is
    approximately 1-2 years.3 As a result, such a scheme would require only annual or
    biannual replenishment.”

    “A 1992 report of the National Research Council4 was the first to systematically estimate
    the potential costs of a program of stratospheric albedo modification. Their estimate was
    based on the use of a standard naval gun system dispensing commercial aluminum oxide
    dust to counteract the warming effect of a CO2 doubling. Undiscounted annual costs for a
    40-year project were estimated to be $100 billion. More recent analysis5 has suggested
    that well designed systems might reduce this cost to as little as a few hundred million
    dollars per year – clearly well within the budget of almost all nations, and much less
    costly than any program to dramatically reduce the emissions of CO2 . Indeed, there are a
    handful of individuals who could create the endowment necessary to generate an annual
    annuity to operate such a program.”

    (I bet wonder who they had in mind?…)

    So let me ask you, if aluminum oxide, barium oxide, or other materials were dispersed from aircraft as stated in that excerpt, and this one:

    “Geo-engineering, defined here as intentional large-scale manipulation of the global
    environment, has been suggested as a means of mitigating the effects of
    anthropogenic greenhouse-gas emissions on climate, without necessarily reducing
    emissions. ”
    “A number of geo-engineering options for mitigating the effects of anthropogenic
    greenhouse-gas emissions on climate have been proposed. In this paper, we
    consider a number of proposals, under two main headings: (i) alteration of the
    Earth’s radiation balance, which involves either reducing the amount of sunlight
    that reaches the Earth using space shades/mirrors, or increasing the proportion of
    incident sunlight that is reflected back into space using stratospheric aerosols,
    tropospheric aerosols or changes in the land/ocean surface; and (ii) removal and
    storage of atmospheric CO2, which involves capturing CO2 from the atmosphere
    through ocean fertilisation (using iron addition or ocean pipes), marine-algae
    cultivation, electrochemically-induced increases in ocean alkalinity or ̳air capture‘
    schemes (such as ̳synthetic trees‘). ”
    “10
    4.i.b. Stratospheric aerosols
    This technique aims to cool the Earth‘s troposphere and surface by increasing the
    backscattering of radiation in the stratosphere (which increases planetary albedo) using airborne sub-microscopic particles such as sulphate, metals, dielectrics, resonant scatterers or dust [A12].

    These aerosol particles would be created by
    releasing aerosol precursors into the stratosphere. This could be done by: releasing
    precursors at the Earth‘s surface and allowing them to be carried into the
    stratosphere; firing them into the stratosphere from the Earth‘s surface; or delivering
    them into the stratosphere using high-altitude balloons or aircraft [B2] (possibly by
    addition to aviation fuel, which could reduce the cost of delivery [Q15]). Injection
    could either take place in the tropics (with the aim of obtaining global coverage) or in
    the Arctic (with the aim of reducing warming in this region, which is particularly
    vulnerable to anthropogenic climate change).

    There are a number of uncertainties about the potential impacts of these schemes on
    the environment21,22. In particular, the effects of stratospheric aerosols on the climate
    system are not fully understood [AD4] — although they are known to affect circulation
    patterns, stratospheric ozone concentrations (which affect climate) [AD2] and upper
    tropospheric cloud formation (a particular concern is that these schemes could
    increase the cover of high cirrus clouds in the tropics, which could increase
    warming). Changes observed after volcanic eruptions (which can inject aerosols into
    the stratosphere) suggest that the climatic response to stratospheric aerosol forcing
    is regionally variable [AD3]. In particular, they indicate that there may be significant
    decreases in precipitation over land23 (which could lead to drought) and changes in
    the North Atlantic Oscillation (which could lead to warmer winters over Eurasia) [B6].
    The potential impact of the schemes on ecosystems also remains uncertain, but
    aerosols can affect photosynthesis by increasing the amount of diffuse solar radiation
    and decreasing the amount of direct solar radiation [A14] and can cause
    environmental pollution. “

    http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/climatechange/research/pdf/geo-engineering-0409.pdf

    …what would it look like? Could you tell a dispersal of barium or aluminum apart from a “normal” looking contrail?

    Maybe, maybe not.

    In any case, all the research that is forthcoming about their ‘plans’ points to things that are very likely underway already.

    Who says the government has EVER asked permission or disclosed top secret activities to the public before carrying them out?

    Who says they would inform you about it, or truthfully assure you that it wasn’t being done? Have you received any such assurances from the government? Do share….

    Your arguments are the same as the cigarette companies….they forever denied that their product was harmful, in the face of the evidence, and to this day they won’t admit any more than they have to…..and it only took like 40 years of research to get where we’re at with that!

    If somebody makes a claim, your modus operandi is to say “if only you had pictures or video”. If they produce pictures or video, you claim “that looks like contrails to me”.

    You challenge our educational level, yet when we present testimony from expert individuals in the field of biological and atmospheric sciences, you claim they are misled and uninformed (such as you did with Dr. Hildegarde Staninger and Rosalie Bertrell PhD).

    You belittle the notion that there are any things going on, and you marginalize people who bring various pieces of the puzzle to the table.

    You claim that managing this site takes you 30 minutes a day, yet person after person expresses amazement at how you seem to be constantly present, all the while exclaiming ‘bring me the evidence!’, but not genuinely examining or juxtaposing the physical science that accompanies the scholarly white-papers that outline the very programs which may well be part of the crux of the whole ‘Chemtrails’ issue!

    You pretend to take all factors into account, but in reality you pick and choose your points, and carefully avoid others which you cannot easily explain away. Don’t think myself and others can’t see that.

    I’m not here to make personal attacks, but only to perhaps draw attention to the manner in which you contribute to the debate.

    Are you really seeing the whole picture?

    Remain Vigilant! Stay Sovereign!

    SPUSA

  • This theory seems especially silly since it goes something like this: There is an evil government plot to either poison people, save the world from global warming, or control the weather. This government plot allegedly involves spraying giant arrows across the sky pointing directly toward what it is they are doing. These trails do not appear every day so it doesn’t seem like it is necessary that there needs to be consistent spraying to get results they want.

    But even if you grant these highly specious premises you are still left with the evil government going out of their way to attract attention by spraying during the day. Now it is one thing to believe in an government that is powerful and amazingly leak free, it contradicts reality but not itself. But believing that this water-tight organization is also grossly incompetent enough to put these giant arrows in the sky during broad daylight would tax my willing suspension of disbelief were this presented in a work of fiction.

  • Kamran,

    Um….did you READ the material I linked? Watch the video?

    Have you typed in ‘geoengineering’ to a search engine lately?

    Try it combined with different keywords such as ‘Obama’, ‘CFR’, or ‘HAARP’.

    It’s time to put your big-boy pants on, take the rosy-colored glasses and racehorse blinders off, and realize that oh dear Toto, we are not in Kansas anymore.

    Take the persistent contrails which are ever-present, day, night, hot or cold, in all seasons and conditions, throughout the ‘Western’ world.

    I’m not sure the ‘occasionally persistent contrails form cirrus clouds’ bit from Britannica is going to cover it all…matter of fact I’m sure it doesn’t.
    Neither can it be explained as altostratus undulatus (rows of wavy clouds), because it storms after those formations and the ‘contrail’ formations we’ve seen in multiple photographs don’t reproduce the same weather, even if the ‘contrails’ can be a crude mimic superficially.

    Plus, if the claim is that gusty wind blows contrails together to form ‘X’s and grid patterns, how is it that the contrail maintains its shape at all?
    Have you ever seen any kind of smoke or vapor hold its shape perfectly when you start aggressively blowing on it?
    (Find two friends that can blow smoke rings a meter apart, then you try and join the rings with your own breath, or a fan).

    It seems highly unlikely that several contrails could all simultaneously hold their shape and alignment in the very conditions said to be responsible for their perfect grid-style convergence in ONE instance, much less from the several hundred pictures now accumulated of suspicious ‘contrail’ formations, many of which are available online.

    (as for the evil gov’t plot thing….just visit my youtube channel to learn about the Federal Reserve and such)

    Remain Vigilant! Stay Sovereign!

  • By sovereignpatriotusa:
    “Take the persistent contrails which are ever-present, day, night, hot or cold, in all seasons and conditions, throughout the ‘Western’ world. ”

    Temperatures at ground level, be it day/night, hot/cold, any season have NO bearing on contrail formation at all. It’s the temperature and humidity in the upper atmosphere, where contrails are formed, that determines when and if they are formed. It’s the middle of summer right now. Feel free to hit this website and enter the hottest city in the US and scroll down for temperatures aloft, you may be surprised to find that at 30K feet it’s below zero or close to it. http://www.usairnet.com/cgi-bin/Winds/Aloft.cgi?location=&Submit=Get+Forecast&hour=12&course=azimuth

    By sovereignpatriotusa:
    “Neither can it be explained as altostratus undulatus (rows of wavy clouds), because it storms after those formations”

    That’s your reasoning for dismissing wave clouds as not being Altostratus Undulatus? Do you have facts to back this up or is this just personal observation? Why do you believe this.

    By sovereignpatriotusa:
    “if the claim is that gusty wind blows contrails together to form ‘X’s and grid patterns, how is it that the contrail maintains its shape at all?”

    “It seems highly unlikely that several contrails could all simultaneously hold their shape and alignment in the very conditions said to be responsible for their perfect grid-style convergence in ONE instance”

    If that were the claim, then you would be correct, but that isn’t the claim at all. If conditions are right to form persistent contrails, grid patterns and X’s are formed by flight paths crossing each other throughout the day. Those patterns (already formed) then drift across the sky just as clouds would. I have never seen anyone here claim that individual trails drift together to form X’s and grids.

  • Suntour,

    “The altostratus undulatus is a type of low altocumulus cloud with signature undulations within it.” -http://www.answers.com/topic/altostratus-undulatus-cloud

    “Altocumulus undulatus – Precipitation likely within 15-20 hours if wind is steady…Mostly threatens precipitation” – Weather Wizard’s Cloud Book 1989 Algonquin Books (the work of Louis Rubin, famed forecaster and weather expert)

    “An altostratus cloud usually forms ahead of storms with continuous rain or snow.” – http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/Atmosphere/clouds/altostratus.html&edu=high

    HOW TO CLASSIFY CLOUDS video – http://www.ehow.com/video_4435914_classify-clouds.html?ref=Track2&utm_source=ask Meteorologist tells you that ‘stratocumulus clouds proceed precipitation’.

    Now, ‘Stratocumulus undulatus’ clouds are also claimed to be what people are witnessing, along with ‘altostratus undulatus’, and ‘altocumulus undulatus’ clouds. All three of those formations are responsible for ‘wavy parallel lines of cloud strips’, and they usually proceed bad weather that doesn’t manifest with quite a few of those ‘persistent contrail’ formations.

    And flight path? Many ‘persistent contrail’ formations have been observed to show up where there is little air traffic (according to Flightaware), with planes that are there only long enough to create the trails, and do not seem to be part of any ‘regular route’ traffic (according to eyewitness reports from knowledgeable individuals) .

    If temperature of day or night, season or weather made no difference at 30000 Ft., then wouldn’t contrails persist all the time, every instance, from the beginning of jet history? Yet, MOST contrails should not persist, and if they did those ‘persistent contrails’ would not need to be designated ‘occasional’.

    Break it down for me. What % of time do contrails persist? What % of THOSE meet the right conditions to become ‘cirrus like’ clouds? And further, what % of THOSE stick around in the right place to be over-layered enough to create nearly perfect grid formations?
    The % keeps getting smaller and smaller, yet your use of this keeps increasing.

    Have conditions for persistent contrails increased enough to justify the frequency that ‘persistent contrails’ are witnessed? If so, how did this change in weather come about? Has ‘global warming’ caused an environment which supports longer persisting contrails?

    Does any of that even matter, in the face of the evidence regarding the propositions to release barium and aluminum into the atmosphere to assist EMF propagation, and to manage the climate?

    What if it all looks the same? If I gave you poison water that looks the same as pure water, would it mean that just because they appear similar it could be argued they are the same thing?

  • SovpatUSA:

    Plus, if the claim is that gusty wind blows contrails together to form ‘X’s and grid patterns, how is it that the contrail maintains its shape at all? Have you ever seen any kind of smoke or vapor hold its shape perfectly when you start aggressively blowing on it?

    Science. It’s the careful study of the natural world. Scientists reach out (in this case up) into the world and MEASURE it. For everyone’s edification (and their own) they then PUBLISH their work so that it is available to all. Other scientists, and the lay public (but not “chemtrailers”) then may discover the parts of our world not immediately available to them.

    In the case of the upper atmosphere, it was discovered more than a hundred and twenty years ago, using balloons and dirigibles, that an invisible CHANGE took place in the atmosphere with increasing altitude, especially at a point scientists and atmospheric researchers called the TROPOPAUSE.

    It has been known for thousands of years (except by “chemtrailers”) that as one climbs a mountain the air temperature FALLS. It was naturally assumed that the air temperature, as one climbed higher and higher, would keep falling lower and lower, but to the surprise of scientists and researchers (but not “chemtrailers”, for of that they know nothing) about that point called thr tropopause temperatures began to climb again!

    The air above that tropopause (or end of the troposphere, which is naturally warmer at its base, and therefore TURBULENT) we now call the stratosphere. Because the air there gets warmer with increasing altitude, it doesn’t behave like tropospheric air at all (except in the case of “inversions”). It is STABLE, remaining in discrete layers which slide frictionlessly over each other. There are no “gusts”, there are no “winds”, save that each “slippery” stratospheric layer is of itself a “wind”. But you might as well call each layer (and all stratospheric layers are invisible) a “river” of air. If you have been a fireman you see this behaviour in the conflagration within a burning house: the hottest air is against the ceiling, and stratified layers of progressively-cooler smoky air lie smoothly and stably beneath it.

    Now I’m taking a short while to educate you in real truth right now in an attempt to shame you into reading some science. It shouldn’t be difficult to look a few things up, even for a fool, who faced with the lies and scams of the web believes them without a moment’s hesitation. The web is before you. WIKI the words troposphere”, “tropopause”, “stratosphere”. Try reading through the “Contrail to Cirrus” link here. Theorize from a basis of established fact.

    It seems highly unlikely that several contrails could all simultaneously hold their shape and alignment in the very conditions said to be responsible for their perfect grid-style convergence in ONE instance

    Does it really, NOW?

  • I enclose a quote from “Grommo” (In his YouTube channel comments)

    Yeah sure.

    The government

    keeps info about the real world

    hidden from the population

    in storage devices called “books”

    kept in secret vaults known as “libraries”.

  • Jazz, that’s a quote from the movie “A Haunting in Connecticut”! I watched it just this week.
    Besides looking at clouds and being insulted by nitwits, I love horror books and movies. But I know where real ends and story begins.

  • Could you tell a dispersal of barium or aluminum apart from a “normal” looking contrail?

    Can you produce a valid test that shows the presence of either element in any appreciable amount ever being found in a contrail?

    leave behind any notion or suspicion regarding biological experimentation using contrails as a vehicle for delivery

    Unless and until anyone can harness the forces of both wind and gravity, using a contrail as a dispersal device will not work. Anything in the atmosphere in aerosol form will remain suspended for hours or days and will drift and be blown apart for hundreds or thousands of miles by wind. Not much use for a targeting assault. Any biological would not withstand the levels of UV rays in such a delivery, as UV easily disrupts genetic material.
    Also, a patent is proof only of ownership of a concept. It is not a determination that that concept has been produced, is feasible, or even works. It’s totally a money matter.

    The proof is in the scholarly white-papers that may be found with research

    Can you produce even one peer-reviewed, multi-disciplined published work confirming anything you say?
    And I’m not talking about “possibilities”, I mean real, measured science. Too often, seeing the phrases “is being considered (looked at, being studied, etc.)” ,might be”, “could happen”, “seems likely” is seen as an admission without proof; you seem to be one of these people.
    All any video shows is that someone with an opinion can use a camera and download onto YouTube. Using videos as a source of valid, credible information requires some critical thinking. For all your diatribe, you provided……??? proof?

  • Stars:

    Jazz, that’s a quote from the movie “A Haunting in Connecticut”! I watched it just this week.

    Ah, well. I should attribute it to the screenwriter, then, if I knew who he/she was…

    I have just turned up this noteworthy (and somewhat relevant) link with reference to open-mindedness. It especially applies to Guest, on another thread:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI

  • Back to the topic! I emailed The History Channel and told them how disappointed I was. I told them that YouTube was posting the show, many times, as a validation of the whole Chemtrail conspiracy. I told them that seeing it presented like they did only fueled the fires of the PCT’s imaginations, and they had possibly undermined some attempts at having people believe real science for a while.
    It should have been a clue that there was no climatologist, meteorologists, seismologists…any “real” experts, just shills selling their story books.
    Even have been insulted by someone who claims to have seen the show, but insists it wasn’t a part of “That’s Impossible” and that the entire show was about “chemtrails”.
    I was kind of hoping they would call “copyright violation!” on any posting but their own. No luck with that so far. I hate sloppy journalism.

  • SovpatUSA, the easy way to answer your questions would be to suggest “Whatever you have in your mind, just think the reverse.”

    This is because you are not working from a scientific basis. Seeing as you are contending in the “boxing ring” of science (“Contrail Science” – remember?), you’ll pardon me (I hope) when I sling you a few left hooks and uppercuts:

    All three of those formations are responsible for ‘wavy parallel lines of cloud strips’, and they usually proceed bad weather that doesn’t manifest with quite a few of those ‘persistent contrail’ formations. – The former are in the troposphere. Contrails are in the stratosphere. The tropopause separates them. This separation of the two “spheres” is blatantly obvious in the ‘anvil’ of a cumulonimbus: above its flat top IS the stratosphere.

    Many ‘persistent contrail’ formations have been observed to show up where there is little air traffic (according to Flightaware), with planes that are there only long enough to create the trails, and do not seem to be part of any ‘regular route’ traffic (according to eyewitness reports from knowledgeable individuals). – Persistent contrails can last all day. The average speed of the stratosphere is 50mph, so you may see a persistent trail 400 MILES away from where it was formed.

    If temperature of day or night, season or weather made no difference at 30,000 ft, then wouldn’t contrails persist all the time, every instance, from the beginning of jet history? – HUMIDITY is the controlling factor (more accurately vapor pressure). Humid air and dry air are EQUALLY TRANSPARENT. Humidity varies from layer to layer, and typically also up- and down-wind inside any particular layer. That’s what makes for the typically unpredictable consequences of aviation contrails.

    Yet MOST contrails should not persist, and if they did those ‘persistent contrails’ would not need to be designated ‘occasional’. – Most contrails do NOT persist.

    What % of time do contrails persist? – The last figures I saw (in a 1992 report) were that persistence occurred 17% of the time. That percentage would have increased since then.

    What % of THOSE meet the right conditions to become ‘cirrus like’ clouds? – That would depend on the wetness or dryness of the layer beneath the layer they were formed in. That’s a little hard to say. I don’t know.

    And further, what % of THOSE stick around in the right place to be over-layered enough to create nearly perfect grid formations? – That normally happens with crossing shuttle routes. If two hourly routes cross at right angles, then you’ll get another “cross” on the hour, won’t you?

    The % keeps getting smaller and smaller, yet your use of this keeps increasing. – Air travel (and fuel use, and trail deposition) has increased fifty times since the fifties, the increase being exponential. Daily a MILLION TONS of trail ICE (which is what it is) has a 17% (or greater) capability of entraining into persistent trails something like a further TWO THOUSAND MILLION TONS of precipitated ICE (from supersaturated water vapor in a stratospheric layer). Seeing as the initially precipitated ice has a size the same order as cigarette smoke, it’s possible to turn skies white, don’t you think. (Of course this is only a phenomenon close to you: from a satellite one can see stripes, but the whole Earth isn’t turned white.

    Have conditions for persistent contrails increased enough to justify the frequency that ‘persistent contrails’ are witnessed? – Yes.

    If so, how did this change in weather come about? Increase in air traffic. Ice crystal fallout is (nearly) the ONLY mechanism the Earth has for removing water from the stratosphere.

    Has ‘global warming’ caused an environment which supports longer persisting contrails? – No.

    Does any of that even matter, in the face of the evidence regarding the propositions to release barium and aluminum into the atmosphere to assist EMF propagation, and to manage the climate? – Propositions evidence nothing. Visit a patent office.

    What if it all looks the same? – It doesn’t.

    BARIUM products would turn jet exhaust GREEN. (Used in green fireworks.) It would also stop the gas turbine.

    ALUMINUM products would turn jet exhaust WHITE AND CRACKLY. (Used in THERMITE.) ALUMINA would grind down the pumps and jets and blades of a gas turbine. (Used as an abrasive.)

    MORGELLONS would be BURNT in a gas turbine flame – it would be just another fuel.

    Go and read a science book, as found in a library.

  • chemtrails and the HAARP site work together…ask TESLA…well he’s dead but his work and patents are in the hands of the new world order…who are playing with the world as if it were a game of RISK. CHEMTRAILS are REAL…ask the folks in the UK… their GOVERNMENT got caught spraying chemtrails…ask the WHO about chemtrails…ask the UNITED NATIONS …they started this chemical war after germany failed, with hitler….what if you mix the new vaccine for H1VI and the spray from these con(chem)trails? do you think a new pandemic will be born?don’t forget that planes can kill…planes can DEMOLISH steel high-rise buildings even if they didn’t hit one, or was that 7(wtc)…UNCINUS….their are planes praying this sky of ours and you think its water vapor…..if its just water vapor then why dont we see it on the weather channel???they have the best radar pics of our skies and the trails are never present on the tube for the world to see.MOTHER NATURE is PISSED…GOOD LUCK ..BE BRAVE…2012

  • jdcobra65:

    MOTHER NATURE is PISSED No. You are…

    GOOD LUCK – Thanks.

    BE BRAVE – Decloaking alien motherships!

    2012 – “That’ll Be The Day!” is still a great Buddy Holly song…

    :D

  • By sovereignpatriotusa-
    Now, ‘Stratocumulus undulatus’ clouds are also claimed to be what people are witnessing, along with ‘altostratus undulatus’, and ‘altocumulus undulatus’ clouds. All three of those formations are responsible for ‘wavy parallel lines of cloud strips’, and they usually proceed bad weather that doesn’t manifest with quite a few of those ‘persistent contrail’ formations.

    I’m having trouble understanding what your point is in that last sentence. If those cloud formations are responsible for wavy clouds and they preceed bad weather (not all of them do), what does that have to do with persistent contrails? In a lot of cases, conditions for persistent contrails do preceed bad weather and…if wavy clouds preceed bad weather…doesn’t that back up the “persistent contrail” theory? I may be way off base with the point you’re trying to make, if so I apologize.

    By sovereignpatriotusa-
    And flight path? Many ‘persistent contrail’ formations have been observed to show up where there is little air traffic (according to Flightaware), with planes that are there only long enough to create the trails, and do not seem to be part of any ‘regular route’ traffic (according to eyewitness reports from knowledgeable individuals) .

    People underestimate the amount of air traffic above their head, until conditions are right for persistent contrals…because they leave a trail that stays all day long. You never hear people say “I had 8 jets pass over my house and didn’t leave any trails”, because you can’t see those jets without using a flight tracker…and of course where’s the conspiracy in that.

    By sovereignpatriotusa-
    If temperature of day or night, season or weather made no difference at 30000 Ft., then wouldn’t contrails persist all the time, every instance, from the beginning of jet history? Yet, MOST contrails should not persist, and if they did those ‘persistent contrails’ would not need to be designated ‘occasional’.

    No, because there are a lot of factors that contribute the the formation of a persistent contrail. Are these factors “rare”? Not at all, especially not when conditions in one particular area are right for them. It’s when conditions are right people see high numbers of persistent contrails, referred to by chemtrailers as “spray days”. But I also read on chemtrailcentral about stretches where there is “no spraying” and they finally have blue skies and puffy “natrual” clouds, so even by chemtrailer standards, they could also be called occasional.

    By sovereignpatriotusa-
    Break it down for me. What % of time do contrails persist? What % of THOSE meet the right conditions to become ‘cirrus like’ clouds? And further, what % of THOSE stick around in the right place to be over-layered enough to create nearly perfect grid formations?
    The % keeps getting smaller and smaller, yet your use of this keeps increasing.

    You questions aren’t reasonable in that there are so many factors present in creating those conditions that it would be virtually impossible to track that data down to even vague percentages. The reason being, it’s all completely based on the right atmospheric conditions (temp/humidity), the location of the plane in relation to those conditions (altitude, longitude, latitude), the of the plane’s engines (less powerful engines leave a smaller contrail footprint), the weight of the airplane itself (heavier planes use more thrust than lighter planes). The only thing even remotely predictible in this convoluted mess of random events is the location of the non-directional beacons, which commercial airliners use to navigate the skies. But even that it doesn’t take into account the random intersection of airplanes paths between beacons.

    I’m sure that a location like Florida, coastal and gulf states are more prone to contrail formation because of the humidity in the air. And flyover states are prone to contrail formation because of the sheer number of planes flying at high altitude back and forth across the country. But I’m no meteorologist and to be honest I don’t really care enough to spend hours researching that information.

    By sovereignpatriotusa-
    Have conditions for persistent contrails increased enough to justify the frequency that ‘persistent contrails’ are witnessed? If so, how did this change in weather come about? Has ‘global warming’ caused an environment which supports longer persisting contrails?

    Yes, but I don’t believe that the atmosphere changed that much, it’s more likely WE changed. Airplanes of today are designed to carry more passengers than they did 10, 20 or 30 years ago. Their engines are much more powerful and they are much heavier…not to mention that overall there are more planes in the sky now than there ever were. These factors alone are enough to considerably increase the frequency of persistent contrails.

    By sovereignpatriotusa-
    Does any of that even matter, in the face of the evidence regarding the propositions to release barium and aluminum into the atmosphere to assist EMF propagation, and to manage the climate?

    Not really. Even if everything you say is true, what are the people of the world going to do? Rise up? Revolt against the Government? Why participate in a witch hunt based on a belief without facts? If there are facts, then I am certainly willing to change my mind, but I don’t see anything beyond speculation and rumor.

    By sovereignpatriotusa-
    What if it all looks the same? If I gave you poison water that looks the same as pure water, would it mean that just because they appear similar it could be argued they are the same thing?

    How do you know it’s poison? I’d be stupid to drink poison even if it looks like water…but you do not KNOW that it (“chemtrails”) are poison. There are no physical tests that have been done that you are willing to accept.

    So…if no physical tests apply to your statement, how can you be sure that it isn’t water (persistent contrail)?

    I am not saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE that persistent contrails aren’t “chemtrails”, but current evidence for them is very strongly against it. If some other evidence comes to light that sheds doubt on my beliefs, I’ll certainly consider it and reassess my belief.

  • jdcobra:

    …ask TESLA…well he’s dead

    Set me up for the day! :D

  • By jdcobra65 – “CHEMTRAILS are REAL…ask the folks in the UK… their GOVERNMENT got caught spraying chemtrails”

    I missed that, where can I find info on that?

    By jdcobra65 – “ask the WHO about chemtrails…ask the UNITED NATIONS …they started this chemical war after germany failed, with hitler….”

    Are you convinced that they’ll tell us the truth? If so, then it would be worth asking them…but what if they deny it, are you willing to believe them then?

    By jdcobra65 – “what if you mix the new vaccine for H1VI and the spray from these con(chem)trails? do you think a new pandemic will be born?”

    I have no idea, why would they do that? They can’t even get enough of the H1V1 vaccine to provide shots to those who want them. Do you have any idea how much it would take to spray the whole country from 30,000 feet? Even if they could do it, is it as effective when breathed in as opposed to injected? Would it even work? I’m sure you’ve thought all this through already though. *rolls eyes*

    By jdcobra65 – “don’t forget that planes can kill…planes can DEMOLISH steel high-rise buildings even if they didn’t hit one, or was that 7(wtc)”

    This site deals with contrails not nitpicking the WTC disaster, so try to stay even a little on topic.

    By jdcobra65 – “their are planes praying this sky of ours and you think its water vapor…..if its just water vapor then why dont we see it on the weather channel???they have the best radar pics of our skies and the trails are never present on the tube for the world to see.”

    Because they’re common, boring and don’t change the immediate weather enough to comment on? Essentially, the only people that feel they even warrant mentioning are the chemtrail believers.

    By jdcobra65 – “MOTHER NATURE is PISSED…GOOD LUCK ..BE BRAVE…2012″

    See you in 2012 and 2013 and beyond!

  • My, Oh! My,

    After reading through all this i am quite exhausted, Uncinus i detected became quite ruffled by post 27.
    Good people you are part of the way on the right path.

  • Not ruffled exactly, just rather dissapointed that people tend to wander off topic. The only thing that will bring clarity to the subject is looking at the evidence with a scientific eye. Have contrails unexpectedly changed? Is there anything in them that is being added deliberately? Is it causing any effect? These are all questions that can be answered to a high degree of certainty by examining the evidence. If there was an effect, it would be measurable. If they have changed, then they would be different to how they were before.

    But when faced with the evidence that contrails have NOT changed, and that there is NOTHING unusual in them, and that there has been NO unexplained measurable effect attributable to contrails, then the theorists simply revert back to a more general theory of “there’s a secret government, weather modification and HAARP exist, hence the chemtrail theory must be correct”.

    So, I suggest, to move the discussion along, yes, let’s assume all the first part of that, assume that there is a secret government, and a secret weather modification program, and a secret use of HAARP, then now explain, with actual science, what evidence is there that contrails are involved.

    Nobody can.

  • Hi,

    You say you must have actual Science, well my friend science doesn’t cover everything, i should know.
    Like some scientists you have to think and look outside of the box.
    When your stuck in the box your looking but you do not see, your listening but not hearing.
    People are getting frustrated as their similar witness accounts our not being noted.
    They are not talking about the odd couple of contrails but observation of substantial saturation and making notes of the weather change that happen around these times.
    Change in vegetation and wildlife.
    There are others watching on health activities.
    In the 70′s it was common knowledge amongst certain people including myself that experiments were taking place using clouds.
    When the questions came, the projects involved had to give out false information with blatant inconsistencies.
    Were the public privy, NO.
    Were they aware,NO.
    Did it do any damage,YES
    Nothing is straight forward and thats how it is made to be.
    There are two outcomes going on.

  • Crystal:

    science doesn’t cover everything

    No. Just reality.

    Had you noticed that the gun that shoots you in time of war has been scientifically-designed? Somebody actually calculated the range and accuracy of that weapon and worked out how much of your flesh its bullet would tear through…

    The same goes for “chemtrails”. They cannot be “prayed” into position. If I prove to you that chemicals cannot pass through jet engines (and I can) you will have to go looking for some other means of delivery to back up your claim that you are being “sprayed”.

    Why don’r you attach a spray of garlic to your neck and with your hands around a “healing crystal”, get out the orgone cloudbuster?

  • Hi Jazzroc,

    Yes i am familiar with how weapons work through forensic.
    It seems your reality though is very limited.
    There is no argument with the way you view your world.
    I did not say i was being sprayed.
    I think you have been watching too many vampire films.
    I have used crystals but not for healing, i must give it a go on your advice.
    You have offered a challenge to these good people on this board.
    So we await your proof.

  • Crystal:

    So we await your proof.

    You’ve already had it in Post 39 of this thread. Scientific proof which you either haven’t read or cannot understand.
    Try to do both.

  • Hi Jazzroc,

    Yes i did read your post 39, they are not your own science or your personal words.
    And as for your other posts which of some are your own words, i can see a difference. Some early proof for your research was given in my post 47.

    The contrails are partly formed and used as Dimmers.

    I will agree to disagree with you on some of your copied research.

    Why our you on the defensive and feel that you have to be so rude with your comments.?

  • Yes I did read your post 39, they are not your own science or your personal words. – They are established atmospheric science AND my own words.

    And as for your other posts which of some are your own words, I can see a difference. – There is no difference between any one part of established atmospheric science and any other part of established atmospheric science. Nor is there in what I write.

    Some early proof for your research was given in my post 47. – There is NO PROOF of anything in your post 47.

    The contrails are partly-formed and used as Dimmers. – Contrails are initially formed only by most of the water content of combustion. They can be added to from the air by accretion by a factor of up to TEN THOUSAND TIMES. Such contrails retain heat reflected from the land by as much as they reflect solar insolation, so your “knowledgeable” statement is INCORRECT – there’s NO net difference.

    I will agree to disagree with you on some of your copied research. – ALL scientific research is “copied” research. The ability to broadcast scientific findings is the very purpose of science. You can agree to be a fool if you wish – such action is none of my concern. Only your MISINFORMATION concerns me.

    Why our you on the defensive and feel that you have to be so rude with your comments? – I’m on the aggressive, actually, and there’s no way to describe you better than the way you describe yourself.

  • Hi Uncinus

    I want to first thank you for your site, and for taking the time to post all the evidence and refutation.

    As a child back in the ’70s I watched the skies a lot, like many of the “chemtrail” proponents allege they did, and distinctly remember looking for jetliners.

    I remember finding jetliners with the following characteristics;
    1) no contrail
    2) non-persistent contrail. [I remember it looking like a long white ribbon being dragged behind the jetliner]
    3) persistent contrail with no spreading. [It would stretch horizon to horizon and then over time become a wriggly line and then evaporate]
    4) persistent contrail with spreading. [I remember referring to it as "the trail turning into a cloud"]

    Of course childhood memories are unreliable.
    I also distinctly remember it always being sunny with blue skies and white cotton-ball clouds.
    Which is highly unlikely as I grew up in the rain-soaked North of England.

    I find it bizarre that people, even when presented with irrefutable contradicting evidence, will cling to a conspiracy theory.
    [Which should more accurately be called a "conspiracy hypothesis".]

  • Here is an update coming out of ‘Time Magazine’ entitled “Can Geoengineering Help Slow Global Warming?”.

    http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1916965,00.html

    Remember, none of these individual pieces tell the whole story, but create a ‘forensic wall’ where you can put all the pieces up for how they work together, and you can see for yourself what’s going on.

    Lots of projects are easy to deny, with the parts so compartmentalized, with participants obligated to non-disclosure agreements, with professional pressures to maintain the status quo.

    It’s a good thing that citizen activists are taking up an interest in the subject, so that the correct exposing of environmental, atmospheric, and electromagnetic operations being conducted can be accomplished.

    See an updated version of ‘CHEMA-KILL’, a documentary covering a wide range of topics relating to ‘geoengineering’, weather warfare, and much much more.

    http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=05377FA7DC26F81E

    Remain Vigilant! Stay Sovereign America!

  • sovereignpatriotusa, why do you think the trails you see in the sky have ANYTHING to do with a geoengineering program?! Who told you to link one thing to the other? Why would geoengineering “chemicals” be sprayed out of the jet engines (as these trails are OBVIOUSLY being “sprayed” from)? Why do you jump to such conclusions without any reason to do so?

    You see a line in the sky and in your mind automatically ASSUME that one thing has anything to do with the other. Why? Who told you that geoengineering would result in lines, and partial lines, in the sky?!

    If only you people understood just how desperately those of us who understand the facts want to help you.

  • Shilltastic –

    sovereignpatriotusa, why do you think the trails you see in the sky have ANYTHING to do with a geoengineering program?! Who told you to link one thing to the other? Why would geoengineering “chemicals” be sprayed out of the jet engines (as these trails are OBVIOUSLY being “sprayed” from)? Why do you jump to such conclusions without any reason to do so?

    Well, perhaps it is the dozen military and scientific programs which explicitly describe spraying stuff from planes, mixing with the fuel, etc…

    If you had any sense, brain, or observatory skills, you would have noticed those links on this or a few other of the pages here.

    Since you are apparently intellectually deficient, I will repost a couple snippits and make it easy for you.

    ““Geo-engineering, defined here as intentional large-scale manipulation of the global
    environment, has been suggested as a means of mitigating the effects of
    anthropogenic greenhouse-gas emissions on climate, without necessarily reducing
    emissions. ”
    “A number of geo-engineering options for mitigating the effects of anthropogenic
    greenhouse-gas emissions on climate have been proposed. In this paper, we
    consider a number of proposals, under two main headings: (i) alteration of the
    Earth’s radiation balance, which involves either reducing the amount of sunlight
    that reaches the Earth using space shades/mirrors, or increasing the proportion of
    incident sunlight that is reflected back into space using stratospheric aerosols,
    tropospheric aerosols or changes in the land/ocean surface; and (ii) removal and
    storage of atmospheric CO2, which involves capturing CO2 from the atmosphere
    through ocean fertilisation (using iron addition or ocean pipes), marine-algae
    cultivation, electrochemically-induced increases in ocean alkalinity or ̳air capture‘
    schemes (such as ̳synthetic trees‘). ”
    “These aerosol particles would be created by
    releasing aerosol precursors into the stratosphere. This could be done by: releasing
    precursors at the Earth‘s surface and allowing them to be carried into the
    stratosphere; firing them into the stratosphere from the Earth‘s surface; or delivering
    them into the stratosphere using high-altitude balloons or aircraft [B2] (possibly by
    addition to aviation fuel, which could reduce the cost of delivery [Q15]). Injection
    could either take place in the tropics (with the aim of obtaining global coverage) or in
    the Arctic (with the aim of reducing warming in this region, which is particularly
    vulnerable to anthropogenic climate change).”

    Additionally, other military programs outline the use of barium oxide and aluminum oxide for propagating EMF waves. If you read the Eastland patent (found here or at another website of your choice http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4686605.html ) then you would be aware of this being ‘proposed’ over 20 years ago.

    There is much more, but not sure if your attention span or brain capacity can handle it. How about you do some real homework before you talk out of turn. Super!

    Remain Vigilant! Stay Sovereign America!

  • “If you had any sense, brain, or observatory skills, you would have noticed those links on this or a few other of the pages here.

    Since you are apparently intellectually deficient, I will repost a couple snippits and make it easy for you.”

    Oh, the irony.

    Observing something, and understanding what you observe are two totally different things. And what makes you sure that what you read about geoengineering is happening above you? Who told you that when they “geoengineer” there will be long white lines in the sky? No one told you to link the two things together…you just ASSUME you should. Hilarious.

    You have this ridiculous blurb, but no logical link to the trails in the sky.

    Sorry, there is NO EVIDENCE that geoengineering would even be visible to the naked eye! And there is CERTAINLY no reason for them to “spray chemicals” through the jet engines, where these trails obviously originate. The conclusion jumping you people do is just pathetic. I don’t expect you to understand why, you are obviously uneducated. I would appreciate it if you could direct me to ANY source of evidence that states as FACT that geoengineering results in lines in the sky. I have news for you…and this will really scare you chemtards, when they DO “spray” (it’s more like release, not spray) into the air as part of weather control, it’s not visible from the ground with the naked eye. It certainly looks nothing like persistent contrails. Prove me wrong.

  • Also, do you live in the Tropics or the Arctic? I sure don’t and I see persistent contrails (what the ignorant call “chemtrails”) all the time, just as I have for over 40 years. If your cute little blurb had ANY value, it would apply only to the trails in regions where “geoengineering” would be helpful (as stated in your useless quote) . Not EVERYWHERE.
    I sure do wish you people would try to learn about aviation/meteorology from reliable sources with peer reviewed information instead of accepting useless crap form OTHER ignorant simpletons as “fact”. You are doing yourself such a disservice by believing everything you read/see on the Internet/youtube simply because it mirrors your OWN misguided beliefs.

    Chemtards are the funniest people on the planet.

    It’s also funny that geoengineering is NOT a secret, and never has been to those of us who have studied aviation, yet so many uneducated “people” think it’s part of a “government plot” (LOL) against them. Paranoia is a real illness…seek help.

  • “There is much more, but not sure if your attention span or brain capacity can handle it. How about you do some real homework before you talk out of turn. Super!”

    Yes, there IS so much more information out there. But, only the uneducated chemtards link that info to the lines in the sky. I have a great attention span! In fact, I spent 40+ years learning about aviation and the atmosphere while you were busy looking at your shoes and eating your boogers. You REALLY should have paid attention in science class. In fact, you shouldn’t have dropped out of school in the 3rd grade. Had you stayed and paid some attention, you would understand how the scientific method and peer reviewed information is CRITICAL in forming an opinion in matters of science. YOU just seem to think one should be able to make ridiculous assumptions and then claim it to be “fact”.

    Fact MATTERS in discussions about science and you have ZERO facts on your side. You have paranoid speculation and assumption…nothing more! I know that last sentence is lost on you. You just don’t understand the importance of actual scientific research. No, what you do is NOT research. What you do is take info and jam it all together and form and OPINION in your mind. Sorry, that’s not how things work and only an uneducated simpleton (chemtard) would believe otherwise.

    Also, where did I “talk” “out of turn”?! This is a PUBLIC FORUM and I don’t need to ask permission or wait to be invited into the discussion. Are you an American?!? And you pull THAT shit?! PATHETIC!

  • In ‘out of turn’, I was implying that you were running to back up your debunking claim with nothing except denials and assertions of authority for ’40 years’ of aviation involvement.

    Of course, all opinions should be put on the table, and I should not have allowed myself to make snide comments.

    I am just so very frustrated with all you ‘debunkers’ claiming that ‘chemtards’ are conspiracy idiots with baseless accusations composed of ill-fitting pieces derived from random internet clips.

    Which is not at all the case.

    What’s really sad, is that there are so many people out there who really believe that the government is NOT up to any sort of undisclosed programs (I’m sure you get a classified briefing every morning right?), that they DON’T have any solid provable history of experimentation on citizens, and that nothing is ever wrong in smallsville.

    If you want to turn a blind eye to everything, then claim you didn’t see anything, I suppose you can be right in your own way. That’s your right as an American.

  • “I am just so very frustrated with all you ‘debunkers’ claiming that ‘chemtards’ are conspiracy idiots with baseless accusations composed of ill-fitting pieces derived from random internet clips.

    Which is not at all the case.”

    It sure IS!

    Until a trail is tested and shown to be part of any of the countless ridiculous hypotheses that are polluting the internet, they are PERSISTENT CONTRAILS. There is no reason to believe anything else unless one is paranoid. Science EASILY explains EVERY pathetic misunderstanding that every chemtard has. The chemtards are just too ignorant and lazy to even TRY to prove themselves wrong. You (they) jump to conclusions and foolishly believe them as fact even though I have YET to meet a chemtard who has taken the time to even TRY to understand the facts. I find it DISGUSTING that so many people (chemtards) believe they actually understand the complex nature of the atmosphere, and how a jet engine behaves within it, without EVER having stepped in a classroom where someone TRAINED to teach others can properly explain things to them. To be a chemtard is to admit that one is lazy and ignorant. There is just no getting around that fact. I also find it HILARIOUS when chemtards come to this site and “try” to refute the 100% verifiable information within it. NOTHING on this site is just made up or assumed (except the drivel that the chemtards post) yet, you people couldn’t be bothered to confirm any of it. You reject it outright and replace it with science fiction fantasy and paranoia. I truly am disgusted by chemtards and that is why I spend my time TRYING to help them. Again, verifiable fact FAR outweighs supposition, assumption and speculation.

    I turn a blind eye to NOTHING. I have read/watched countless hours of information that the chemtards have posted and see NO REASON to believe my knowledge of persistent contrails needs to be tweaked. You can come up with a BILLION theories as to what these trails are, but to refute what science says they are, you need proof…

    There is NO PROOF that any line, partial line, pattern, shape that has come out of a jet engine is ANYTHING but a contrail. Do you understand the word proof and how important it is in this case? You people are accusing so many people of doing something, yet you have NOTHING (other than some random internet based CRAP) that PROVES it. It’s insane. I hope one of you chemtards wins the lottery someday and hires an independent company to sample/test a trail. Hey, that’s not a bad idea…someone should start a website asking for donation to do just that! I know I’d contribute a hundred bucks or so if it meant that all the chemtards would have to eat their ridiculous words!

  • Shilltastic:

    Hey, that’s not a bad idea…someone should start a website asking for donation to do just that! I know I’d contribute a hundred bucks or so if it meant that all the chemtards would have to eat their ridiculous words!

    I wouldn’t.

  • Really?! You wouldn’t want to end this nonsense once and for all?

    Well, now that I think about it…they probably wouldn’t accept the findings anyway. They have already made up their “minds” and no amount of evidence is going to change that.

  • No, Shilltastic, I just wouldn’t spend the 100 bucks. :)

  • If I had the cash…I would pay for it myself. I would pay ANY price to clear the names of the maligned aviation industry professionals. Then again, the chemtards do provide me with endless laughter. I’m torn!

  • Well folks, you can laugh at ‘chemtards’ as you call them, but if you took a little time off from your study of high-altitude aeronautics to study history, you would learn that those who rule have precious little compassion for the likes of us, and this has led in the past (‘history’) and in the present (‘current events’) to acts of absolute evil, hidden under the cloak offered by power. So…it is not so unlikely to my mind (absolute scientific proof -with all due respects- is for those who are so alienated from their bodies that they do not trust the alignment of their reason and observation with the feeling in their gut) that ‘the government’ (i.e. the military) has, does and will reproduce tests with airplanes in which chemicals are sprayed. But I suspect that ours is a deeper rift. Just as you do not believe in the possibility of chemtrails (and hence danger of these to yourself) you probably also disparage those of us who believe that the moon landing was an elaborate cold-war hoax, or that Haarp is designed to manipulate weather as a weapon. And the reason that people like you believe the ‘official story’ (as opposed to the real story) is that you do not properly understand the nature of POWER and how it has always, and always will make things up in order to stay in power. Our ancestors called the root of this tendency ‘satan’ ‘the father of all lies’, but even the book in which these words are taken (‘the Bible’) has been distorted in order to serve the political needs of those who would grasp and keep power over others. The children of Satan, to those in power (‘Christians’ lol) are those who questions the official story, offering ‘lies’ that ‘corrupt’ the good, hardworking, earnest and healthy American People. It is truly sad to witness the denial which people have to go through in order to prop up a vast charade because living without it seems too scary. It is sad, and it will become dangerous, because in order to defend what is ‘good and wholesome’ witch hunts must be undertaken whereby those who seriously challenge the ‘official story’ will be dealt with, surprise, with very little compassion. I know everybody wants to believe the official story, but wanting to believe does not make it so. Sure, the ‘conspiracy theorists’ are a mixed bag of various levels of thought and understanding, but at least they have the sense to smell that ‘something stinks in Denmark’ All of our puzzle pieces do not amount to science, but neither do we think that they need to. Gleaned from comparative history old and new, from the coincidences and gaps in the official story, from our own observations and feeling about human nature and the nature of politics and power, all of these puzzle pieces are coming together, and chemtrail theory is not necessary for such a picture to make absolute sense, given our study of history, if not ‘science’. Let me suggest that you stop worshipping science and recognize that the history of the will to power is also a reasonable subject of study, and one which might give you a fresh view of things. Let me also suggest that feelings are not nothing, and that maybe you should get in touch instead of pushing away in the attempt to get at ‘pure science’. That said, I like your site and have spent way too much time reading the back and forth between you, your team of yes-men and the chemtards, who are, like you, just trying to help you see something.

  • bybs:

    Well folks see something.

    We gather…

    As your egg-sucking grand-daddy, who has both studied hard and passed my exams in school and tken taken and passed degree courses in both science and the arts, AND lived a professional career as both an engineer and an artist, let me tell you a couple of things:

    Science is put together logically using a chain of evidence. A break in the chain is its disproof. In the “chemtrail” case this break occurs AT the aircraft. The trails are made by passenger aviation (despite CT claims to the contrary) – and there is NO feature in a passenger aircraft like a tank or spray equipment. The trails are made by the engines. The gap in the trail shows NO additive. Ergo NO CHEMTRAIL.

    HAARP is a device for heating the ionosphere which applies less energy per unit area than the Sun normally does. The ionosphere is closer to a vacuum than can be normally achieved in a laboratory. Altering the appearance of the ionosphere (which the Sun does to create the Aurora Borealis) has the effect on the rest of us which the Sun has: NOTHING.

    I always thought Chicken Little was a stupid fairy story. Who would believe a delusory idiot chicken? Even for a moment?

    After all, it’s young. And stupid.

  • Chemtrails are real.

    Its all part of the New World Order. Long live the ignorant sheep.

  • “Long live the ignorant sheep.”

    Yeah, especially the ones that follow Alex Jones and other scientific illiterates. The whole “sheep” insult is hilarious. Especially when you consider the sources these people use for their information. Yeah, I should give up on science to accept the word of the uneducated as fact.

  • It amazes me how many people think the “History Channel, That’s Impossible, Weather Warfare” is a documentary based on “facts”. They see this mockumentary and automatically assume that their beliefs are now justified because the “facts” are now on mainstream TV. It’s just so sad! Has anyone seen the “truthergirls” channel/videos on youtube? It’s absolutely frightening to me how many people will ABUSE the word “truth” in their screen names and then piss all over the concept of truth itself. The funny thing is, if they just paid attention to the wording of the “documentary” they would understand the intent a bit more. “some researchers believe….” is one of the best lines….Everyone on youtube believes themselves to be “researchers” yet they conveniently IGNORE basic principles of aviation and meteorology in their “research”. It’s hilarious and sad at the same time. It’s obvious that those of us who understand will NEVER be able to convince those who are ignorant of the facts that there is no such thing as “chemtrails”. Why do we bother? Because we have a MORAL responsibility to help our fellow man. I don’t care if they accept the truth or not. I will continue to express it! The wonderful people in the aviation/meteorology industries deserve MUCH better treatment than they get from these ignorant simpletons!

  • I will tell you, our Government is corrupt, evil, full of lies and deciept, and has been going on long enough for it to get way to big and needs to be brought down and start anew. I know for sure they have been manipulating our weather for years, as well as stealing and miss using our money. Our Government is so evil that if you study deep into this you would know that they are evil enough to have created multiple devastations around the globe as well as the most recent with Haiti. People better be scared if they are not already, and we can only hope they do not pass any health care bill, or we can kiss our a** goodbye, there is nothing good out of what we can’t see in plain site just as the sonic explosions that have happened globaly for years creating earthquake’s and much more, trust that you should be scared because this is only the begining of much more horrific things to come here in our near future if the people do not come together and put an end to all of this and save our planet, our beloved USA and Constitution.

  • Carlson,V, there was nothing either correct or even relevant in your post.

    Put “an end to all of this and save your planet, your beloved USA and Constitution”, by educating yourself in science, logic, and reason, drawing no more of the planet’s resources, putting an end to your own lies and self-deception, and becoming self-sufficient.

  • They say verbatim: “we spray our enemies”! Case closed.

  • Where do they say that? And what does that spraying look like?

  • I havent seen this documentary,but I do know mr.thomas and hes no buffoon.This “its just contrails” is bullcookies.I have no desperate desire to believe in chemtrails anymore than anyone else,but there are too many things that suggest to me that chemtrails are not merely contrails.Yes,contrails sometimes persist and spread out,but not under conditions in which we see chemtrails.Having watched the skies for more than 37 years,i can see a difference in our atmosphere,a difference not explained by increased commercial air traffic or ground level emissions.I see clouds that are not normal and that are occuring in the absence of sufficient moisture to be real clouds.I`m seeing cloud cover that is the result of chemtrails(or aerosols if you like)that have morphed into clouds under conditions not favorable for ordinary contrail cirrus.

  • But to convince people you are going to need actual figures – at the very least a journal of your observations – and preferably some measurements. What is the evidence?

  • According to a friend at luke afb,what they`ve done with jet dispersal of ionizable particles is to turn our upper atmosphere into a plasma or electrified gas,which can then be used as a vector for various electrical or electromagnetic energy technologies that have weather,defense,geoengineering and other applications.According to him,our atmosphere is being “used” right now.This is not something 10 or 15 years away,he says they are doing it right now.Pretty scary.

  • he also says the particles are hygroscopic(water-loving)and sub micron in size.Whatever it is,its got me a little on edge.the atmosphere is not ours to fool with

  • And where has your friend got his information from? Where’s the actual evidence that something like that is happening?

  • Hey Uncinus–you sure are intimidating. Even a bully. Not really a give and take, more of a throw down going on with you and your “facts”. By the definition of something hidden, or “occult”, you can’t verify it epistimologically. On the other hand, while you dis any and every challenge in your defensive, small minded, left brained status quo supporting mentality, the idea that “something’s amiss” you don’t really seem to want to take a look at–but instead forge a quite rabid defense of what you believe the truth to be, slamming down any opposition. Not a good sign, dude.
    Why is that? Are you threatened by such a possibility? Would it “rock your world” to where all of a sudden you might think even the “9-11 conspiracy theorists were right”? What are you so afraid of?
    Yeah–you can always debunk–there is no God–”if there is, PROVE IT!” or “the north pole doesn’t exist–I’ve never seen it” type of reasoning. Sad. You can’t listen, for whatever reasons, therefore you don’t get it.
    I just feel sorry for you–whether you’re a government shill, like one of your confessed commenters, or faithfully defending your left brain “it just can’t be” mentality, or think you’re the last stand for “reason” and need to make a statement against the more honest, aware and intuitive humans who can see the nose on their faces, it’s sad. I hope and pray you can wake up, whatever your motives.

  • Is it really bullying to ask for evidence?

    I’m not asking for anyone to “PROVE IT”, I’m just asking me show me what evidence they have, even if they don’t have very much evidence, or if it’s circumstantial evidence. But for some reason, people are very reluctant to produce any evidence – and when they do, it’s often things that have already been fully explained.

    I’m just taking a scientific approach. What is claimed? What is the evidence? What are alternate explanations for this evidence? Which explanations make the most sense?

    Do you have any evidence?

  • conscious1:

    By the definition of something hidden, or “occult”, you can’t verify it epistemologically.

    Indeed not, “conscious”1. In fact you cannot prove it to be there at all. In fact it ISN’T there.

    Science, on the other hand, is only concerned with things it is possible to prove ARE there.

    The human world you live in has been built by science: the previous human world to this was built by the “hidden, or ‘occult’”.

    We now call THAT world THE DARK AGES.

    Does this leave you wondering why? Were they truly dark, ask yourself? Wasn’t it better then, when if you got sick, it was because you were occupied by an evil spirit, or it was part of God’s mysterious plan, that childbirth was like Russian roulette for mother and child, that some local power broker had definite control over your existence and potential, and education, such as it was, was only available to monks and priests? (On the bright side, a drastically-shortened life also drastically-shortened any period of suffering).

    Perhaps there’s something to science which you have forced youself not to see?

  • It’s very simple. The History Channel is teeming with CIA. Its function is to manipulate mass perception, particularly of history.

    The “Chemtrails Controversy” was planted by counter intelligence as one of the ways of disrupting, confusing and smearing as “tin-foil hatters” anyone involved in legitimate research into and dissent against real state-sponsored crimes.

  • Well, there’s as much evidence for that as the next global conpiracy.

  • By JazzRoc:
    The human world you live in has been built by science: the previous human world to this was built by the “hidden, or ‘occult’”.

    We now call THAT world THE DARK AGES.

    This statement really puts things like: Crystal Therapy, Astrology, Clairvoyance, Astral Projection, Cold Reading etc…into perspective.

  • turboglo:

    “anyone involved in legitimate research”

    Anyone involved in legitimate research will first have studied some atmospheric physics, otherwise there’s no logical basis from which they can draw accurate conclusions or make accurate predictions.

    Atmospheric Physics is a branch of physics which (like most of science) crosses language barriers and state borders, and isn’t prone to misdirection by maleficent interest groups. Nor can you argue with it these days, unless you possess your own orbital satellite with state-of-the-art laser tools and have gone and got yourself a whole new set of facts and figures, and some remarkable and new interpretation.

    Atmospheric Physics is a realm of FACTS and FIGURES, and advancing arguments for analytical tools and interpretive techniques, which is approaching a century in age.

    Within its aegis, contrails of all recorded types have been logged, measured, assayed, and understood. These findings are easily available on the web.

    Claimed “chemtrails” are simply persistent spreading contrails.

    More generally, how is it possible to ignore science and be right about ANYTHING (in the real, outside world)?

  • the brits admitted testing in the 70s so thats enough for me

  • Enough to believe what exactly? That “something” is going on?

  • The “brits” admission was a low level dousing of a specific population that was done just 2 times.

    It did not involve persistent contrails and thus suggesting that because they used 2 planes to douse their population with bacteria is enough to evidence to conclude that every persistent contrail seen around the world is really “sprayed” does not make much- if any- sense.

  • Anonymous, “chemtrail” “spraying” didn’t start until the late 80′s. Ask any “expert” on the subject (lol). So what does “spraying” (actually more like “releasing”) over Britain in the 70′s have to do with the lines over my house?

    You REALLY should require more than THAT to prove to yourself that “chemtrails” are real.

    Personally, I don’t think a SINGLE “chemtrail” believer should EVER serve on a jury for ANY trial. Evidence is important and those who don’t REQUIRE any in order to accept something as “fact” should NEVER be in a position to decide the fate of another human being… Just an opinion.

  • Anonymous, do you know WHAT they were testing and WHY they were testing it?

    Or, alternatively, if the USSR had launched ICBMs which burst over your country which caused your family to turn black and die within seconds or hours (somehow leaving you miraculously unscathed), might you not be angry that your government had irresponsibly left your loved ones to die?

    Wouldn’t you have called your government uncaring and your defense system useless? Wouldn’t you have sworn to revenge yourself not only upon the Russians (with thousands of biological and toxological weapons stockpiled) but also upon your own government?

    Most of those weapons are still there RIGHT NOW, almost ready for use, by the way…

  • If everything were normal and nothing is happening, then this website would not even exist because there would be nothing to defend. Since there are people that can clearly see that something very wrong is happening to our skies, websites like this are created to feed disinformation to the people, convincing them that the majority of the population believes that it is all normal, therefore if you think otherwise you will be labeled as a conspiracy theorist that wears tin foil hats. It is a very effective an proven method of mind manipulation to control the masses. Just research “Asch’s Conformity Experiment”. It’s amazing how easy it is to get people to conform against their own beliefs. Right Uncinus?

  • Anonymous, the trails in the skies are fountains of ICE which are precipitated in the extreme cold of the flightpath of increasing passenger transport aircraft flights. These flights have increased by a factor of FIFTY over fifty years.

    On the other hand, the public understanding of science has NOT. THAT is what is happening. Through your ignorance you claim this is “very wrong”, when it is YOU who is “very wrong”.

    I draw your attention to your own responses. How WOULD you reply to the questions I asked you about “the Brits admitted testing”, for instance, when you changed the subject to “Asch’s Conformity Experiment”?

    If I asked you questions about THAT, would you then change the subject to something else? I bet you would…

    “You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you will see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” – Matthew 7:5 – International Standard Version AD 2008

  • Anonymous, websites like this are created to defend the good name of Aviation against uneducated and paranoid morons. (that isn’t a direct insult against anyone in particular).

    Just for a moment, think of something you love…maybe a pet dog…or your mom.
    And say a neighbor created a site ABOUT your dog (or mom) that spread lies about the dog (or mom) being vicious and untrained, but you knew that to be untrue. Wouldn’t YOU defend your dog (or mom) against the liars who post nonsense based on ignorance? Wouldn’t you think a website of your own, showing you playing with the tail wagging dog (mom) while giving it commands, it obeys, be a good way to prove to those who have accepted your neighbors lies, that he was wrong.

    Now, using your “logic” from above…you would have NO REASON to defend your dog (or mom) against the lies.

    Sorry, I LOVE Aviation and everything it entails. I will defend it against lies based on paranoid ignorance until the day I die.

    There are no chemicals….if someone shows me that I’m wrong, then I will change my stance, and become a chemtrail cultist myself. YOU people SHOULD require much more evidence before you jump on a bandwagon. I can’t understand why so many people accept this “chemtrail” stuff as “fact” without the slightest bit of evidence.

    Yes, I understand that you’ve seen the trails and read/watched all sorts of “truths” about them on rense.com and youtube. But, the fact remains, there is no evidence of ANY chemicals in the trails other than combustion gases and water vapor. If I were you, I would focus more on the billions of sources of pollution you ignore at ground level. There are far more dangerous chemicals in the air in and around your home that you are completely unaware of that DON’T come from airplanes.

  • It’s amazing how easy it is to get people to conform against their own beliefs. Right Uncinus?

    Well, I don’t seem to be doing very well with the chemtrail theorists, do I? They just get angry and go away. None of them have conformed yet!

    I just run this site for fun. I like science, clouds, flying, and conspiracy theory – so I write about it.

  • well 4 your consideration,and peace of mind ,my brother worked in a lab filling tanks for ehemm the “british intelligence”late 70s early80s and they were been attached to planes in luton airport.he said if you want to keep somthing secret do it in plain view,so thats more enough 4 me .

  • by the way jazz roc that anomynous who was talkin bout aschs was not me

  • I watched the show and was disappointed to see so much theory. Even more disappointed at the usage of stock footage of USAAF B-17s trying to land/takeoff to resemble ‘British’ jets. Poor usage of clips that do not relate to the story trying to be presented.

    The History channel is slowly becoming the “Whatever we want to say happened in the past” Channel.

  • Anon:

    that anomynous who was talkin bout aschs was not me

    Ah. You found me out.
    I must confess all you anonymouses look the same to me. It’s a weakness… :)

  • Duh people. Wake up and get pissed about this! Either A: WE ARE BEING POSIONED. or B: The government needs to do something about all planes that are creating contrails that last this long. You can watch various jets and planes fly by at all sorts of altitudes and they don’t leave ones that last for HOURS and expand and make our skies look like polluted crap! So either way they are an issue. You are an idiot if you think it doesn’t matter, I am sick of looking up at the heavens and seeing the disgusting trails of human existence polluting the natural beauty! Either way it’s bullshit and totally preventable. So contrail or chemtrail who gives a shit they need to stop! If they have to linger longer than 15 minutes then they should be banned from the skies. If you disagree with this you opinion doesn’t matter because you are such an idiot you can’t even appreciate the beauty of natural clouds and the blue sky.

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