“Chemtrail” Aircraft Photos
Several planes look a little odd, or have attachments that look odd, and so some people feel they must be part of a decades long conspiracy to spray stuff into the atmosphere to alter the weather or reduce the population. That’s obviously nonsense, but what are these strange planes?
Here’s one making the rounds, scary looking barrels, and a sign on the wall that possibly says “Hazmat inside”
What is it? It’s a Boeing 777-200LR Worldliner, specifically it’s WD001, a plane that was used for flight testing. The original photo can be found here - note the “Hazmat” text was added later. The barrels contain water, which is pumped around to shift the center of gravity to test various flight characteristics.
Here’s a description of a similar setup from the 2002 book, “Inside Boeing, Building the 777″, page 76., describing tests done in 1994.

From Boeing’s blog:
Remember, we test at the extremes of the weight/CG envelope. This requires us to control the CG during ground and flight conditions. We can move weight, in the form of water, forward or aft with the use of the water ballast system. This system is comprised of 48 barrels, each capable of carrying 460 pounds, connected by tubing to a pump. A computerized system tracks fuel placement, fuel burn, people placement, ballast, flap setting, landing gear position and water barrel quantity. The information is processed to display the airplane’s current CG. We move water or specify fuel tank usage to configure the CG within the specified test requirements.
Why are there overhead luggage compartments? It’s a test plane, and for FAA certification they have to demonstrate that everything works. That includes stuff like the emergency oxygen system, and more minor things like the luggage compartments. It’s a requirement that they don’t pop open in flight - so that needs to be tested. They are also handy for stowing the engineers’ stuff.
Here’s some pictures from Boeing:
And a lot more photos can be found on Boeing’s site.
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This one gets a lot of use in the “chemtrail” forums:
Particularly because of the unusual collections of pipes sticking out in various places. There’s those two at the front, and then there is a group over the wing. Here’s some close ups
Very sinister looking tubes, but why are half of them facing the wrong way?
The plane is not for spraying the atmosphere, it’s for sampling the atmosphere. It’s a research aircraft, registration N701BN, operated by th e department of energy’s national labs. It’s pretty much one of a kind, so it’s hardly likely to be responsible for all the persistent contrails we see every day. The research is mostly on pollutants in the atmosphere, particularly from coal and oil burning power plants. But they also investigate the properties of clouds, which includes contrails.
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Here’s another photo you see in “chemtrail” videos, with the implied suggestion that it’s some kind of evil spraying device:

Actually it IS a spraying device, but quite innocuous. It’s on an NKC-135A (55-3128) with the refueling boom modified to spray water. This used by the air force to test icing of planes in flight.
Here’s the original photo:
See also: https://www.safaq.hq.af.mil/news/march04/raptor.html
Here’s some more details:
nkc-135-icing-attachmentpv1983_2688.pdf
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This plane is quite interesting:
It’s an E-6B “Tacamo”. This photo shows it dumping fuel (photo from tacamo.org). The E-6B is used by the United States Strategic Command as an airborne communication center. You can see the navy logo on the right wing. The E-6B is a modified version of the Boeing 707-320, and the fuel vents have been moved from the wing tips to between the fuselage and the engines in order to separate it from the communication equipment in the wing tips. This is what the wing-tip ESM/SATCOM pod looks like:
It looks like this odd assemblage is also creating some wingtip vortex contrails as well. The plane is pretty much all white, which is something you hear mentioned from time to time in “chemtrail” conspiracy theories.
Here’s another photo of the same plane, taken from a “chemtrail” YouTube video:

It shows the opening for the ELF trailing wire antenna. This is a very long wire antenna that is extended behind the plane for several hundred feet and used for communications with submarines.
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This plane also looks at first glance like it might be dumping fuel (click image for full sized photo):
But the trails are actually coming from six smoke generators. It was part of a NASA test to study wake vortices, you can read about it here:
http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/gallery/photo/B-747/HTML/ECN-4242.html
Six smoke generators were installed under the wings of the 747 to provide a visual image of the trailing vortices. The object of the experiments was to test different configurations and mechanical devices on the747 that could be used to break up or lessen the strength of the vortices. The results of the tests could lead to shorter spacing between landings and takeoffs, which, in turn, could alleviate air-traffic congestion.
Here’s another image of the same plane:
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This plane also occasionally get brought up in chemtrail conspiracy groups:

This is obviously not a contrail, it’s far too low and the trail is dropping too rapidly.
It’s a Boeing 747-100 “Supertanker”, modified by Evergreen Aviation, the only one of its kind. Specifically designed for fire fighthing. That’s it dumping water. Here’s some more recent photos.
Here’s a video of it in action, titled “B747 chemtrails”. It’s interesting reading the comments, as the first comment correctly identifies what it is, and then everyone else just ignores that and starts speculating.
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This one looks like a plane spraying stuff. But again it’s rather close to the ground. It’s actually taking off with the assistance of rockets. It’s not spraying, that’s just rocket exhaust.
This particular plane is a Boeing B-47B, rocket assisted take off, April 15, 1954. An no, that’s not a contrail in the sky behind it - it’s rip in the photo. Click on it for a large version.
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This one is used for cloud seeding. It does not actually spray anything but uses silver iodine flares that are either ejected, or burn in place.
It’s operated by the Sandy land Underground Water Conservation district of Plains, Texas, as part of their SOAR program. They have some more photos of similar equipment on their site. They are all small aircraft not capable of getting to the above 30,000 feet where contrails normally form.
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This next photo is also of silver iodine flares, fixed underneath at large plane.
These also show up in “chemtrail” literature. They are sold by Weather Modification Inc, they make a range of weather modification equipment. About this one they say:
WMI racks for ejectable flares are mounted on the belly of the aircraft fuselage. Each rack holds 102 cartridges. When fired, the pyrotechnic is ignited and ejected from the aircraft. In this configuration, the WMI Lear 35A is equipped with four 102-count racks for ejectable glaciogenic pyrotechnics, a total of 408 flares.
Here’s another, this time from North American Weather Consultants, Inc.
About which they say:
This aircraft-mounted cloud seeding generator is fixed in place, and can burn a silver iodide solution during flight.
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This one is the “Mk.32 drogue-type underwing pod on the Armée de l’Air Boeing C-135FR Stratotanker” (”93-CC”- s/n 63-8472 of GRV 93). It’s an in-flight refueling system on a French Boeing C-135FR Stratotanker, photographed in Canada, Feb 2005.
See: http://www.baha.be/Webpages/Navigator/News/tanker_flight_240205.htm
Wednesday 23 May 2007 | Uncinus | chemtrails, contrails, distrails, science
299 Responses to ““Chemtrail” Aircraft Photos”
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To quote someone, please use <blockquote> and </blockquote> tags, for example:
<blockquote>But surely the contrails would evaporate?
How do you explain that, given those facts?</blockquote>



















There are chemtrails I see them every week. Why are you trying to
cover up the truth?
Why does the air get really hazy after I see many chemtrails being done in the sky? These photos do nothing to answer the many questions I have about why non-commercial jets are spraying chemtrails in our skies.
Ezra, sometimes when conditions are right, contrails will spread out to form a hazy layer of cirrus clouds.
why did a lab in louisiana test what fell to the ground after a plane sprayed and it was found to contain 30 times the amount of baruim levels acceptable?
all sites like this do is seek to stop us from questioning the government ,why are “chemtrails “mentioned in the congressional record?why are some congressmen with a conscience seeking hearings?,i suppose you want our email addresses so the”black suburban can show up to make us disappear”
the most feared sentence in the english language;WE ARE FROM THE GOVERNMENT,AND,WE ARE HERE TO HELP.
question authority!!!!!
Which congressmen are seeking hearings? About what?
Where are these barium results? All the tests I’ve seen show normal levels of barium.
“Chemtrails” are mentioned in the congressional record because Kuchinich trusted his eccentric friends to write his bills. See:
http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/
http://youtube.com/watch?v=okB-489l6MI
watch,why would they lie?
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message502076/pg1
i guess these guys are liars too
The barium results you link to show normal levels, as I’ve explained several times:
http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/
The second link says nothing about congressmen seeking hearings, it just mentions HR2977, which I already explained:
http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/
http://www.chemtrails911.com/related_legislation.htm
None of those links mention chemtrails or hearings (except for HR2977, which I already explained)
http://www.arizonaskywatch.com
more lies right?
http://d1027732.mydomainwebhost.com/articles/articles/House-Resolution-3445.htm
http://d1027732.mydomainwebhost.com/articles/articles/Senate-Bill-1807.htm
no one here in arizona agreed to be sprayed like insects to “create man made rain”
Not lies, misunderstandings.
Nothing in those bills mentions anything like “chemtrails”.
The contrails that you see form at an altitude where the clouds form as ice. So they cannot be used for creating rain.
Most of the time they do not spread, and so have little effect on the weather.
Contrails DO have some effect on the weather when they do spread, as they increase the “global dimming” effect. But this is unintentional, and unrelated to anything in the bills you mention.
It’s a huge leap of reasoning to connect persistent contrails to these bills. If you still think they are connected, then please quote me the section of the bill that deals specifically with high altitude spraying.
Have a look at this satellite photo:
http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?AERONET_Maricopa/2008050/AERONET_Maricopa.2008050.terra.1km.jpg
It shows Arizona a few days ago (2/19). You can click on “Prev” at the top to show one for EVERY DAY in the past four years. In this particular photo you can see lots of contrails. You can also see they are associated with cloudy conditions. Go through the photos, and see what days have contrails.
02/26/2008 1316 pm clear and sunny all day ,yes we have seen CON TRAILS today evaporating as fast as the jet is flying.
riddle me this:why are all these people “mis informed”as you say?
http://www.chycho.com/?q=node/1594
Contrails evaporate quickly when the air is not humid and cold enough. It varies, just like the weather varies.
You posted a link to a blog, so I’m not sure what you mean by “all these people”. I don’t know why Mr Chycho holds the opinions he does - but he’s still wrong about the science of contrails. He’s also rather confused about HR2977, and what the Germans have “admitted” to.
WELL YOU KNOW SOMETHING?LAST TWO DAYS HERE HAVE BEEN CLEAR AND NICE BLUE SKIES,YES A FEW HIGH ALTIDUDE JETS FLYING ,FORMING”CONTRAILS”THAT EVAPORATE…SEE WHEN WE ARE BEING SPRAYED THE SKY IS FULL OF JETS…SO NOT MATTER WHAT YOU SAY THE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CONTRAILS,PERSISTENT CONTRAILS AND CHEMTRAILS.CHEMTRAILS ARE REAL AND WE ARE BEING SPRAYED ,BE IT FOR WEATHER MODIFICATION OR TO KEEP GLOBAL WARMING DOWN IT IS HAPPENING ,NOT JUST HERE IN ARIZONA BUT ALL OVER THE WORLD
The difference you are seeing is simply due to the weather at altitude. The jets are still there, just harder to see because they don’t leave long contrails.
give me a break……….
No really, they are still there. You have to look pretty hard to see the higher ones. Especially the small executive jets that fly above 36,000 feet.
Where in AZ do you live? There are probably a LOT of planes flying over you every day, going do and from the West Coast, and the South and East States. Have a look at this map:
http://contrailscience.com/there-are-a-lot-of-jets-in-the-air/
Especially look at the Google Earth map, which will show you the jets above you right now, in 3D (you need Google Earth installed, and a fairly fast computer).
http://www.fboweb.com/antest/ge/geALLFLIGHTS.kmz
Thanks SO much for putting this site up. I was associated with the aviation industry for many years (built wind-tunnel models) and thought I knew quite a bit about aircraft until I saw one of the chemtrail conspiracy vids on youtube. This vid had a number of photos in it that showed some of the same type equipment you have posted in photos here. I was pretty sure the devices weren’t chemical sprayers or supporting equipment, but I just didn’t know what it was, you cleared it up for me
You’re doing yeoman work here and I commend you for the patient manner in which you respond to the outlandish claims some folks are making. I’ve tried explaining the physics of contrails to conspiracy believers a few times but I can’t get thru to those guys, it seems as if when they’re presented with a reasonable, logical explanation they just ignore the evidence.
Nice site, and you’ve made my day!
HEY GNORVILLE YUP PRETTY GOOD SITE I’D SAY ,MOSTLY TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE OTHERWISE THAT CHEMTRAILS ARE NOT REAL,SEE HERE IN AZ ,PHOENIX IN PARTICULAR PAST TWO DAYS MON MAR 3 AND TUES MAR 4 JETS FLYING HIGH ABOVE US WITH “NORMAL CONTRAILS”,CLEAR BLUE SKIES,NOW TWO WEEKS AGO THE JETS THAT WERE FLYING OVERHEAD WERE NOT IN “COMMERCIAL AIR TRAFIC PATTERNS” AND THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY SPRAYING SOMETHING ,IN ALL MY YEARS BEING AROUND AIRCRAFT THE ONLY ONES THAT FLY UNCONVVENTIONAL PATTERNS ARE MILITARY…SO YOU SEE WHEN A GUY LIKE “UNICUS”CONTINUALLY TRIES TO “DEBUNK”CHEMTRAILS,IT IS HARD TO BELIEVE WHEN WE HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN RIGHT BEFORE OUR EYES.
Contrails above Phoenix are made by jets that fly very high, and are going between places that are far away from Phoenix. Examples being Los Angeles to Houston, or San Diego to Atlanta. There are many such flights every day. If the planes do not leave contrails (when the weather is not right for contrails to form), then they can be very difficult to spot.
sorry i was wrong went out side at 1445 03/04/08 and wow two jets side by side spewing a contrail from horizon to horizon amazing
NWO Dept of Weather Managment / Cloud seeding program not harming western Colorado wildlife
http://kjct8.com/Global/story.asp?S=7935944
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 381326 (OP)
3/4/2008 2:02 AM Re: They’re seedtrails not chemtrails Quote
Cloud seeding is used to make rain (or snow). It is done at a lower altitude than where contrails form.
Cloud seeding has been done for decades. There has never been any secrecy about it. See all these books:
http://books.google.com/books?q=cloud+seeding&as_brr=1
Ok, I have a friend that is a lawyer and he believes in almost every conspericy that is out there. He says that since he is a lawyer he has to look at all the facts but he really just looks at the negative and its making his life a complete hell. You can question authority all you want but to what avail? Are there such things as aliens, monsters or ghosts? come on… believe what you want and say what you want but when it comes down to it, none of you will really do anything about it but post comments on the internet. I dont see anyone at the federal building protesting or much of anything else. No use bashing this post because i will never look at it, I just found this site on accident and will never return. “Get busy living or get busy dyeing” Dont waist your life with stress and pain, try to enjoy the positive things around you. Happy Easter!
Weatherman Explains Chemtrails on Radar:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=222_1200191568
NBC news: Chemtrails over California:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIAWWL4HQDg
Chemtrail Proof - German Military Exposed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaPqCMIuEk4&eurl=http://prisonplanet.com/articles/december2007/181207Chemtrail.htm
The first video is about chaff.
The second video is just an overview of chemtrail theory, with no actual evidence presented. I can address individual points if you’d like to pick one or two you feel are most compelling.
The third video is badly translated, also about chaff, and I dealt with it at the following link:
http://contrailscience.com/germans-admit-they-used-duppel/
i love ur site btw, its quite humurous seeing ppl’s points on chemtrails. they really dont understand the science hey. i think wildwelder should check out flightaware.com and i think his opinion on how many jets are in the air will change. have these chemtrail theorists ever realized, if there was such spraying, how inefficient it would be to spray at 30,000ft+…the US government is not that dumb. the barium tests make me laugh. expecting what one see’s above is gonna fall right into ones testube lol. do they know what wind and winds aloft are???
great site!
hey, thanks for posting this site, i do admit i was sorta convinced by all the rediculous tin-foil hat folk cell tower mind control theories, HAARP and ELF weather control, and chemtrails, but seeing this brings me back to reason. i cant thank you enough for trying to debunk these things, plus returning aviation to it’s good name. uncinus i commend you on your calm and eloquent way of attempting the conspiracy theorists to listen to reason. although i am abit distrustful of our present govt. and i think it’s getting too involved in other folks lifestyle, i would think they would not have the power, means or lack of respect for their country to do such a thing.
good day, and keep on debunkin’
Do rockets leave contrails?
Yes, rockets do leave contrails, although they are very different to jet engine contrails because the chemical composition of the exhaust is different (and varies also based on the type of rocket engine). They are also different because rockets travel vertically, so they go through a greater variety of atmospheric conditions.
The vertical lift also means a lot more fuel is used for distance travelled, so the trail is a lot denser.
Some rockets, like solid fuel rockets, produce a lot of smoke - this can look like a contrail, and might actual exist in combination with condensation. Smoke can precipitate condensation if the air is moist enough.
Some rockets use combustion of liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen, and that produces a lot of water, such as the space shuttle. Those types of rocket can leave very dense vertical contrails due to the vast amount of fuel needed to generate the lifting force.
Rockets like the space shuttle can leave contrails at very high altitudes, which created weird looking wispy clouds.
Here’s some photos of the Space Shuttle contrail at the bottom of this page:
http://zimmer.csufresno.edu/~fringwal/ksc.html
I was investigating a “chemtrail” theorists website and he had posted a forum topic which apparently holds photographs of a “chemtrail” plane on the ground. A link to the thread is here:
http://z13.invisionfree.com/THE_UNHIVED_MIND/index.php?showtopic=54245
After reviewing it, I figured instead of bouncing around the internet finding out what all that means, I’d leave it up to you, Uncinus.
see:
http://www.baha.be/Webpages/Navigator/News/tanker_flight_240205.htm
And if you scroll down on the original link, you’ll see “seigmund” has also explained it:
http://z13.invisionfree.com/THE_UNHIVED_MIND/index.php?showtopic=54245
Thanks again, I’ll disclose this information to my colleagues.
Hi i would like to point out that chemtrails are actuly used to control the weather as germany actuly confirmed they contain metals to deflect the UV.
Hi “Me”, I’m afraid you have been misinformed. The German story is about chaff, nor chemtails, and it’s not about the weather, it’s about weather radar
The confusion came about after someone deliberately mistranslated a story about chaff. It’s all explained here:
http://contrailscience.com/germans-admit-they-used-duppel/
So… Harp is a myth also… Hmmmmm. You ever studied Tesla?
Widows Sun
Haarp is real research project. Point to one thing on their web site that you can show to be false:
http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/faq.html
Yes, I have studied Tesla, an early 20th century scientist, who did all his science around 80 years ago. Some of his odd pronouncements, like “[The nozzle would] send concentrated beams of particles through the free air, of such tremendous energy that they will bring down a fleet of 10,000 enemy airplanes at a distance of 200 miles from a defending nation’s border and will cause armies to drop dead in their tracks” have been seized upon by oddballs who think it meant he could do these things, when he was simply extrapolating.
Chemtrails are used in part for the following—
electronic, psychotronic, information weaponry
plasma, electromagnetic, sonic and ultrasonic weapons
strategic, theater, tactical or extraterrestrial weapons
chemical biological, environmental climate or tectonic weapons
Total Agreement with Wildwelder AZ
You are referring to HR2977, which is fully explained on this page:
http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/
And the original bill did not say that “chemtails” were used for any of those things. Actually chemtrails was simply one of the items on the list that was written by a group of UFO enthusiasts.
There is some good knowledge on this site, but still there are many inconsistantcies which need addressing, and certainly, in a scientific (accuracy driven) way. Time permitting will add over the next few days for others to comment on, interests/concerns such as on heavy (what appears to be) spray days why then news advises alerts for higher than normal particulates, which you can actually see building up from a distance, which certainly appears to be caused by the spray forming cloud like formations that linger and spread over distances in cities. Note–before the spray days the depth of blue, followed thereafter by bluish white grey coloration–Many people from many professions are noticing these typical events and occurances and more and more, and reaching out for answers. Even doctors are making comments. -Also how is it, or maybe it only seems like? children are sick more often during these periods, and, very strange skin rashes, leisions, and ailments which are not so easily identified, or cured, seem to be emerging slowly over time.
Imhotech, can you provide some links that back up what you are claiming?
Some of the general links. Thank you for your response.
http://www.chembuster.us/Las%20Vegas%20Tribune.htm
http://thewalk.com/wp/2008/01/14/chemtrails-are-over-las-vegas/
http://politicalscum.blogspot.com/2007/07/august-192005-volume-7-issue-3-i-may.html
segment from the article
…..Mark Witten, a respiratory physiologist at the University of Arizona in Tucson where an official US Air Force study on JP8 was carried out, told Scientist in March, 1998 that crew chiefs “seem to have more colds, more bronchitis, more chronic coughs than the people not exposed to jet fuel.”
EDB is 6.5-times heavier than air. Unlike normal condensation trails, the thick white streamers being sprayed from downward-pointing tail-booms over at least 39 states does not dissipate, but spreads into an overcast that refracts a purple color in sunlight and appears suddenly as an oily film in puddles and ponds.
Hundreds of photographs and videotapes made by ground observers show pairs or larger formations of aircraft spreading a white mist that thickens and drifts toward the ground. Thousands of eye-witnesses - including police officers, pilots, military and public health personnel - have provided detailed accounts of aerial spraying in characteristic “X”s and east-to-west grid patterns, followed by occluded skies - and acute auto-immune reactions and respiratory infections throughout affected regions.
Severe headaches, nosebleeds, shortness of breath, joint pain and a dry hacking cough “that never leaves” are being reported by countless Americans jamming hospital Emergency Rooms from coast to coast. While December and January are traditionally bad months for asthma sufferers, patients, doctors and nurses across the U.S. report hospital wards filled to overflowing with bronchitis, pneumonia and acute asthma admissions at up to twice-normal winter rates.
“We’re getting sprayed real heavily with the chemtrails,” a Las Vegas resident told the Tribune. ” On some days it’s just total saturation.”
http://www.newswithviews.com/public_comm/public_commentary47.htm
Let’s take this one bit a time. Where is the ACTUAL EVIDENCE that there are
Why is there not one report of this in any media other than those that repeat the claims of William Thomas? Surely someone would have noticed countless Americans jamming hospital Emergency Rooms from coast to coast?
(And if you could provide a more neutral source than Marcus K Dalton, that would be even better).
Thank you..agree in principle..there are other sources of information available in addition but require renewing some past research. Since I am very intersted in this subject, will see what ground level infrastructure can be rounded up, provided, and be back to post.
Imhotech…
If normal contrails can and do persist…for hours and days…and spread out into sheets of cirrus clouds…covering the sky…and even promote the creation of cirrus clouds where there were none before…as has been studied, documented and peer-reviewed by scientists from all over the World for the last 50+ years…AND has been so diligently presented with undeniable evidence by Uncinus here on this site…
…then…please tell me how you can look up at a trail…and know for sure it is a “chemtrail” rather than just a supersaturated persistent contrail??
The supposed visual behavior of “chemtrails” - the observed behavior- which is the ONLY thing “chemtrail” watchers can truly point to as supposed “evidence”- is EXACTLY the same as the known behavior of persistent contrails….It seems an act of pure hubris- hubris based on ignorance to suggest you can look up at the sky and know for sure that a plane leaving a trail is actually “spraying something”….it does not stand up to rational logic…It is a not a claim that can withstand the rigors of the Scientific method…and yet most “chemtrail” believers accept it as fact. How do you explain that???
How can you explain that the most fundamental piece of “evidence”- the trail itself- is identical in behavior to normal contrails?
Surely you know that persistent contrails in air traffic corridors could be perceived as a “grid” pattern?
or that what you see in the trails above you- in the size of particulate matter being supposedly “sprayed” would not fall on you below- but drift for 100s and 1000s of miles…before reaching…if ever…the earth below…
I live in a rural area that doesn’t see many commercial flights. I see these trails low and I see them higher up. I see short ones, broken ones, some that look like they go straight up, X’s, grids or whatever you want to call them. They usually start in front of the sun but I have gone out and seen them at night in front of the moon. They then linger and start spreading and the next thing you know the sky is filled with white crap that sure isn’t clouds.
I have also seen footage from old movies where the con-trails were massive. But that was a war movie.
Never in my life have I seen the sky look like it does now and have witnessed for the last 5 years.
When the Weather Modification Resource Act SB 517 was passed in October of 2005 I believe, the next day even the teacher’s at my son’s school commented that they thought we were being attacked. Yep, we were by our own sick govt. trying to control the weather.
Even if it is just “cloud seeding” with silver oxide, the concern seems to be that no one ever thought to do an impact study on it in the last 50 years and some people in the govt. think this is a problem. No data. So if it’s all good for us why no studies?
Whether it’s silver oxide, barium, aluminum or whatever makes the chaff it seems that what goes up must come down. So they leave behind these trails and they float away but at some time it falls. Where it falls is anyone’s guess. If they spray heavy in one state, maybe it floats to another state and so forth.
I also talk to people that work in doctors offices and after a day of spraying, many people come in sick with mainly respiratory illness. This is a fact. Even the doctors are starting to connect it. There are people having hair analysis and coming back with very high levels of barium and aluminum in their hair. What else could be causing this?
Clifford Carnicom has a website that explains what is happening. Of course there are other sites that explain whats going on. It’s pretty easy to search either chemtrails, contrails, or weather modification. There are people around the World talking about this, not just American conspiracy theorists.
I wouldn’t put anything past this out of control mentally ill government these days and I don’t believe all involved know what they’re doing is harming us. I believe it takes only two for a conspiracy.
infowars.com is a great start in figuring it out. Scott Stevens is the owner of that site and used to be a weatherman. Contact him and he’ll tell you what he’s found. This site is worth looking at but I’m sure there are those ready and waiting to debunk his theories too. There are many others and in ending, the truth is always uglier than the lies being spoonfed to us.
Rural areas see MORE commercial flights at contrail producing altitude, as all the flights you see are at a high altitude, and not inbound to a local airport. People get from city to city by flying over rural areas.
What you describe is just the same as what was described since the 1950s. Maybe you don’t remember the trails looking wuite like this. But you were probably not quite so fixated on the sky. Note you only been seeing them for five years. Other people report ten. So that means that even if chemtrails were real, then there were ten years were you did not notice them. Most people have STILL not noticed persistent spreading contails, so why is it off that you would not have paid much attention to them before five years ago?
Talking to people is fine. But where is your actual evidence?
Really? Where? Post a link, preferably to the lab report.
And, even if they DID have high level of barium and aluminum, how do they know where it came from?
Yes, really. I don’t have a link to the lab report, my friend who is a nurse had the hair analysis done and I saw the lab report first hand. I doubt if any lab would put up a private citizen’s test results so there is no link. The analysis was done through a doctor’s office that sent it to a lab. This is very concerning to the doctors. The doctors know about the chemtrails and also all the respiratory illnesses that they see coming in after a heavy spray day.
Could it be our shampoo? Could it be in our water that they say they filter before serving us our daily dose of chlorine and fluoride? Doubtful as those toxins have been fed to us for many many years and we are just now seeing data about the dangers of those toxins.
Most people don’t look up. They look down and they look straight ahead. Believe me, when I looked up and was made aware, I did my own research to see what it was.
When a “contrail” is behind a commercial plane, it dissipates rather quickly as it is supposed to be water vapor. But now these jets or whatever they are spraying the sky, leave massive amounts behind. They then fan out and turn the sky to crap. Even pilots are becoming aware of this and questioning just what the military is spraying. Now maybe the military is using it for intelligence to run their radar to keep us “safe” from whoever is trying to nuke us these days…which would probably be about every country out there except Israel and France.
But hey, don’t take my word on it, there is so much information out there and the lies they have been telling us about what it is or what it isn’t is all coming out. You can type in your search box: military owning the weather by 2025 and see what you get. The Navy also has a patent on the word chemtrails.
So take the chemtrails, HAARP them a bit, turn on the microwave and gwen towers and you too can be dumbed down and made passive. And don’t forget to be talking on your cellphone while doing this.
Even my Senator is aware. And if you don’t think this government is capable of doing this, try searching for the Love Canal and H.A.A.R.P. and go to jerryesmith.com and read what he says regarding this crap. They have been poisoning us for decades so what makes you think they’d stop? They’ve been caught red handed and still they do their best to harm us because that’s what big out of control government does. Keep the people passive while we wreak our havoc to be the World Super Power.
As to various good comments on all sides made the past day or so: just opinion there is obvious support on both sides, good reasoning, data support and logic for contrails and good support with just less data for now, for chemtrials. The problem with anyones research will always be to get to the point of proving up the or a potential nefarious or dark side of potential or otherwise chemtrail activity as is being reported or assumed by many out there–and almost everywhere these days…case point being that yes an aircraft can be used for harmless research, but it must also be agreed that an aircraft can be used to carry a weapon, or two, biological or otherwise..you wouldn’t know unless you were there or close by…this the support data needed…It will always be difficult to “catch” these things in progress even if thousands have their cameras out, but if its happening, one day it will be photographed or documented in a way that draws critical support, and maybe then, ..One day someone will ultimatly give an on site credible report that many just might agree on……but, it must suffice for now for general reports and non scientific or less than sophisticated studies of the reporting public. That is the difficulty. Things need to get organized to support which is in many ways beginning to occur. Many professionals will need to come out with their views..one might think its a waste of time and effort, but, with so many people from all walks of life noticing proliferation of marked up skies, hazes over what used to be a beautifully full moon in the sky, very strange illnesses reported, and appearing, and what have you and even disclosure apparantely, by UK Government officials (you tube), admitting, even though many years ago, to sprayiing toxins on the public? At least that spells a potential does it not. And with the potential comes responsibility by “any” State or Gov official to seek the unsuspecting public approval toward what ever is delivered into or from the skys above. Will be back to post when more research conducted via discussions with others, meanwhile the link above to article By Dr. Stephen C. L’Hommedieu, D.C. March 4, 2007 NewsWithViews.com, is at least to me, a reasonable one to think about.
You friend has obviously bee breathing the same air as everyone else who lives nearby. So why is EVERYONE not having health problems and high barium levels?
It seems quite impossible that nobody would have notices this. No scientists, no journalists, no bloggers even. Nobody has noticed any increase in barium poisoning, because there is none.
So who is your Senator, and what is he aware of?
So then why does the Encyclopedia say:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/623212/vapour-trail
?
I don’t know who is running this website, but if you don’t know anything about chemtrails, then you are simply not looking up at our skies especially when rain is in the forcast! I have seen numerous ones here in Arizona and the people here are sick soon afterwards.
There is too much evidence out there not to know this. Where do you think all the odd clouds come from that linger and turn our skies hazy and multicolored!? What happened to the beautiful sunsets? Sunrises? All marred by the trails and looking sick with all different kinds of lines. And if you don’t think we have chemtrails, just look at the new money being printed today! All types of lines run through the skies! I would suggest you get to reading and looking up so you can indeed see for yourself. Or do you wear blinders?
Hi L. I do know a lot about contrails, and what you describe sounds just like contrails. I really would like to hear from you why you think there is a difference between contrails and “chemtrails”. What is that difference exactly?
People getting sick soon after what? Surely millions of people would be sick if it was from contrails, as they would spread over hundreds of thousands of square miles. Why has nobody reported all these people getting sick?
there was a mention of Barium….without drawing conclusion, here is a link
http://www.chemtrails911.com/docs/00_2008/Chronic%20barium%20intoxication%20disrupts%20sulphated%20pro.htm
“The high levels of Ba stemmed from local quarrying for Ba ores and/or use of Ba in paper/foundry/welding/textile/oil and gas well related industries, as well as from the use of Ba as an atmospheric aerosol spray for enhancing/refracting the signalling of radio/radar waves along military jet flight paths, missile test ranges, etc.”
The author of that article is a farmer in Somerset, England. He’s a strong believer in “chemtrails”, and several weird medical theories. However, he produces NO EVIDENCE to support what he’s saying about barium from the air. If there was “the use of Ba as an atmospheric aerosol spray for enhancing/refracting the signaling of radio/radar waves along military jet flight paths, missile test ranges”, then HOW DOES HE KNOW THIS?
That aside, his paper is about Barium level in the soil, not in the air. It also mention clusters which would not happen if it were coming from contrails, as they cover huge area, not small clusters.
Evidence of at least more research being conducted. And I also am from Phx. The skes are pathetic for real.
http://www.rense.com/general82/chemit.htm
I’ve already discussed that “research” in depth. It demonstrates normal levels of barium, etc., just like all the other research does.
http://contrailscience.com/chemtrail-non-science/
Chemtrails are real! I have thousands of pics from before 1989 and not one single chemtrail. Since then they have multiplied rapidly. Also the sky bears no resemblance to a normal sky and hasnt for years. HAARP and Chemtrails are our doom. These pictures up above are pure government debunking bullshit propaganda! Chemtrails are real and are killing us. You sheep have your heads up your proverbial rectums. We cant wake you sheeple up no matter what! So I say Fine! Dont Believe! and Die! DFr
olddude, I have thousands of pics from AFTER 1989, and not one single “chemtrail” (persistent contrail) - except for those I took deliberately, when I was looking for them.
If you look at normal photos people take, they STILL don’t have very many persistent contrails in them, despite the huge increase in both the number of photos being taken, and the number of jets in the air, so it’s hardly surprising that you have a hard time finding them in pre-1989 photos, before digital photography, and before the recent surge in jet traffic.
See here for more on this subject:
http://contrailscience.com/where-are-all-the-chemtrail-photos/
Ok then in terms of research and data, since none seems to carry enough validity yet.. it is time for a few of us to obtain our own research on the air contents and qualities, which will be initiated.
Further discussions with air traffic controllers can be done, and needs to be done, and documented. I also have an old friend that piloted the first 747 to Bejing..and founded one of the first major airlines. If I can catch up with him, that ought to be usefull information. A collection of this type of data from several areas if possible, would or should begin to bring or bear some facts. I am sure many people are doing the same or at least taking an approach..
Uncinus, since you have refuted information from Rense.com —someone there should be contacted to be able to defend or refute your information on their postings–or at least have things done over if that what needs to happen. You have done good work with this site..so a good forum and format…… However to be fair, for good or bad, there are way too many people on the chemtrail bandwagon, and if any of the theories are true–innocent people need to know–and–the clever folks or should I say individuals, persons, spooks, whatever need to be fully exposed. The most one can lose is to gain more knowledge along the way on this very elusive subject.
To note it doesn’t take very long on the web to find previous “spraying” programs that have been implemented historically..The public has been sprayed..and there seems to be no problem adapting planes to accomplish the task..
the key is to put the finger on the chemtrails proof and analysis.
http://www.tetrahedron.org/news/nile_virus_spraying.html
OldDude…
How can you remain so ignorant??
There are a lot of pictures from before 1989 showing persistent contrails….many of those photos are here on this site…
How do you explain them???
There are so very many research papers by scientists dating back50+ years detailing the existence of persistent contrails….contrails that linger for hours and days and spread out into hazy sky covering cirrus clouds…
How do you explain that??
…just crying that the sky is falling doesn’t make it so….
here is a nice picture from 1983 withe several persistent contrail and even a sun dog:
http://www.1000plus.com/Imagic/8301sund.htm
So, where exactly is your head?
Don’t believe Uncinus or me if you are so deeply close-minded that you can’t accept differing opinions….do the research for yourself- Just look up:
Supersaturated persistent contrail
or
contrail cirrus.
Become an expert on atmospheric science and cloud and contrail formation…and then get back to us and tell is they are all “chemtrails”.
Good luck with that.
Imhotech-
yes- you are correct- there has been a lot of “spraying” done- crop dusting is spraying…the link you mentioned is spraying….These aircraft spray very close to the ground over specific targets like a field or a pond or likely mosquito habitat…and done with small planes or helicopters…
….these are low-level application of pesticides that have nothing to the supposed high altitude “spraying” of “chemtrails”…
“chemtrail spraying” is supposedly done out of jet aircraft at 300-500mph at altitudes of 30,000 feet or more….and not all an effective delivery method for any topical application…nor an effective delivery method for trying to saturate the atmosphere either…
…just not an effective delivery method for any of the supposed purposes of “chemtrails”…
This is where logic and knowledge would be useful tools.
You touched on something important- proof and analysis…over 10 years of “spraying” supposedly…and not a shred of evidence…not a modified plane…not a legitimate sample of a “chemtrail”…nor a legitimate inside source….
This is supposedly a global event- pictures of “chemtrails” being posted on the internet daily from around the World…How many 1000s of people would have to be involved- over 10 years…not a single peep from anyone….is that likely?
The only “proof” of “chemtrails” are the trails themselves supposedly- post a picture and call it a “chemtrail”…..which is highly problematic because it has been proven that normal, benign-intent contrails can behave EXACTLY like “chemtrails” supposedly do….
So….the basic jist of that FACT is that EVEN IF “chemtrails” exist- You CANNOT tell you are seeing one just by looking at it…
Flight paths, grid patterns, stopping and starting, etc…all of that can be explained by normal aircraft and atmospheric behavior….the only way to truly know and/or prove the existence of “chemtrails” is by sampling the plume in situ.
Everything else is pure speculation.
…and, unfortunately for the “chemtrail” believers…it is often speculation based on ignorance.
SR 1419 Your notes and other are compelling but not altogether to be relied on at least for me..unless you wish to prove that no Chemical Spraying exists on a dangersous level to humans, or has, ever! Please…. you can’t. Period. You stand very much to be corrected –which could take hours. I will see to possibly move that direction hopefully soon. In any event, How can you prove the spraying is done only over 30k’ (feet) and never below. Also, DRIFT is a BIG concern for chemicals, and that is DOCUMENTED all over the place. The links to proof of chemical concerns are almost too numerous to list…just google Chemical Spray Programs, and you will find quite a few good ones..a couple days of research will garner even better results..I look forward to giving you plenty of information soon. Till then, you need to consider that many very educated folks out there have written books the subject. You need to read the link in my last post carefully, and pick up some books to get you understanding that there are other things you need to consider, or not..later
http://www.caps.20m.com/newfoundlandspray.htm
The Department of Forest Resources and Agrifoods has made application to the Department of Environment and Labour for approval of a forest pesticide spray program for 2001. The Forestry Department is proposing the use of four insecticides, Mimic, Neemix, Btk and a virus NeabNpy. Although such pesticide spray programs puts the health of people and the environment at risk, these spray programs have never been subject to full environmental assessment as per the Provincial Environmental Assessment Act. Following the proponents (the paper companies and the Forest Service) registering proposed forest spray programs with the Department of the Environment, the provincial environment minister has always used his discretionary power to approve forest pesticide spraying without further environmental assessment.
“Three federal government reports, (NRTEE-March 2001, Standing Committee on Environment -May 2000 and the Commissioner of The Environment-Office of the Auditor General of Canada -May 1999), have all raised serious concerns about the government’s ability to ensure the safety of public health when dealing with the regulation and management of chemical pesticides and toxic substances”
http://www.sare.org/sanet-mg/archives/html-home/25-html/0360.html
> The Drug Enforcement Administration’s (DEA) proposed massive herbicide
>spray program across the United States for eradication of cannabis raises
>serious questions regarding widespread public and environmental exposure
>that would take place and therefore requires greater public involvement than
>has so far been received by DEA during the 45-day comment period. We
>respectfully request that the DEA extend the public comment period by 45
days.
Imhotech, I think you are confusing two entirely different things:
1) Spraying of pesticides
2) Long thin clouds that form behind planes high in the sky
Can you explain how you connect the two? Better still, can you actually show a photo of pesticide spraying that looks anything like what you’ve been describing. Here’s some to start off with:
http://images.google.com/images?q=plane+spraying+pesticides
Compare with:
http://images.google.com/images?q=contrails
…none of the links and material you put forth has anything to do with contrails that persist, spread out and cover the sky in a haze of thin cirrus clouds.
none.
So what is your point?
The basic belief amongst “chemtrail” believers is that any contrail that does not dissipate quickly is a “chemtrail”
That has been proven to not be the case.
You did not read my post very well- I said lots of spraying of chemicals has been done…
You said: “How can you prove the spraying is done only over 30k’ (feet) and never below”
I never said that….I said that supposed “chemtrails” are trails from planes that are flying at high altitudes and has nothing to do with low-level spraying of pesticides such as the programs you mention…
All the spraying I am aware of as been done at LOW altitudes for specific locales and purposes…
…as opposed to “chemtrails” which are supposedly for a myriad of purposes, global in nature and “sprayed” from planes flying at high altitudes.
Please read for comphrehension and clearly delineate what your argument is.
SR1419, yes more proof and analysis needs to be accumulated -I am confident will occur step in time w/ new data coming in every day now–your other topic–similarly part of the initial data needs to be…and I am sure all agree we need more of…
1. What the particals, metals, other and % make up our air and its overal quality, city to city, city to country, etc…with the most heaviest activites reported of “chemtrail” sightings first…on presumed spray days, and not on presumed spray days..
2. persistant contrails, vs chemtrails you say if they, chemtrails exist…ok that must be also part of the discovery and analysis..as they look /act the same, supposedly, then they must be able to be tested –as there would be the differences in materials present —
3. professional observers analysis, i.e. traffic controllers
4. other
..family, kids and, similarly neighbors have from time to time taken scores of pictures over our own homes……trails appear to be low level grids of spray, when occuring,…and whats funny is there will be other jets that you can see contrails behind evaporating within 20 seconds or so, fading, and in the same area of atmosphere or seemingly close range, other planes are leaving trenches of white garbage that appears to spread, that persist for hours…the air later smells…is most interesting
….some of us are natives of our State…let me tell you…things are different than several years ago..yes we need to prove that..and soon as possible…and get down to what is causing many things noted in reports on the subject..
SR1419 …just how can you possibly say no ligitimate sources exist to support Chemtrails..they may not contain a perfect match to what you wish for support but to me it is undeniable as just plain common sense, that even ones own sight and smell will tell you theres a difference…when the particulates are high animals seem to get sick more often…you don’t need to be a brain surgeon to realize there are things going on that are different than years ago in our atmosphere…
Apparantley you wish to ignore or discredit certain works of one Harvard graduate, other vast bodies of works out there including most all Chemtrail web sites, — you seem to have a closed mind on the subject..at least it seems—but, maybe its the “certain proof thing”—I am confident that soon the proof will be there one way or the other…but meanwhile no one can help you to understand their thinking if you have already made up your mind that you alone and your premises are the only ones that are right or possible, in the face of many hundreds if not thousands of individual reports and interests surfacing…
your words
“You touched on something important- proof and analysis…over 10 years of “spraying” supposedly…and not a shred of evidence…not a modified plane…not a legitimate sample of a “chemtrail”…nor a legitimate inside source….”
Really not a shred of evidence…I think thats a bit over the top…–Dr. Horowitz works is not a shred of evidence? please!, other PHD reports out there posted are not…really??—I believe that the data will come soon in a manner you that even you might legitimately accept..its not the science of contrails that is the problem…its the unknown..
When you get this evidence, please post a link to it.
I stopped reading at #50.
I also live in Arizona.
You realize that we have like two airports here, and a military base? (Luke AFB)
There is so much pollution in our skies, that when it rains, it’s a mild acid rain, and the pollution is what makes the sunsets so brilliantly beautiful here.
I look at the sky quite often, as I am an artist and I am often photographing it. I drive all over Arizona just taking pictures of the sky.
I’ve never come across anything that looks like chemtrails or any of this other bullshit you’re spewing out. Just because you’re bored with your life doesn’t mean you need to spend so much time attacking the lives of others and attempting to create fear in people who would be swayed by your words. It’s like a mild form of terrorism, really.
But I digress.
The population of Phoenix and the amount of cars we have on the roads only makes the air here worse to breathe. To notice that people are “sicker” after these “chemtrails” is like saying “yeah, whenever I stub my toe, all of a sudden my toenails are so long I need to cut them!” the rain just brings your attention to something.
Remember what they teach you in high school (and reinforce in college, if you ever made it there…) “Correlation is not causation.”
Love and Peace,
Melissa A.
For information purposes, the following lists several or all of the Airports in Arizona, which represents more than two.
http://www.discoveringarizona.com/Airports.html
I suspect though that most of the contrail activity in Arizona comes from airplanes that that are overflying the state, or going to Phoenix and to a lesser extent Flagstaff and Tucon. See the second image here:
http://contrailscience.com/britain-from-above-air-traffic/
You can see the connections between the major cities. Phoenix shows up quite well, to the right of Los Angeles and San Diego area.
But of course, even if there were NO airports in Arizona, you would still get a lot of contrails.
First of all sorry for my bad english. I’m quite interestedi in dumb people writing stupid things about 9/11, chemitrails, aliens, and so on. Here in Italy we use to send them to the European Parliament. I’m really sad about this crap. And the thing that convinced me to take this decision is what my old uncle used to say: “You don’t have to talk to idiots! People watching can’t tell the difference!” It’s my translation, I hope you understand.
With great deference and respect.
Alessandro
P.S. Maybe people should pay for every question they post! So, maybe, they will learn to make more serious questions!!
I can’t understand why you people are even arguing over this. If its true, which is isn’t, that the government is spraying things for population control or for other reasons THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP THEM. So spend your rime doing something productive, losers.
Cool pictures though!
OK. I have a question for someone that hopefully can be answered here.
Earlier this year I flew from Gatwick (UK) to Cancun (Mexico) on a First Choice Boeing 767 (I’m pretty certain a 300 ER). Through the window I noticed an object on both wings that I hadn’t seen on other aeroplanes before. They were 6 - 8 inch long tubes about 2 inches in diameter. I didn’t photgraph these but if you look on the YouTube clip below, which is a First Choice flight on the same type of plane you can see what I am talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_H2-KKyUw0
The photo below is an underside picture of a Boeing 767 300ER, which clearly do not show these objects on the wings.
http://www.younggalleryphoto.com/photography/milstein/images/002.jpg
This video (again from YouTube) show a different flight on a 767 (not sure of model) but the objects are not present on this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvjdzC9RjlQ
Can someone please try to explain what these are - NOTE I am not suggesting anything untoward here, just would like clarification as to what these are to at least clear this up in my own head.
Thanks,
Nik
It’s the fuel vent for dumping fuel. See here for it in action.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=468_1210677414
Not all planes have a fuel venting system, and sometimes they are at the ends of the wings. So I’d imagine that’s why you don’t see it on on every model of the 767. You can see them on this 767-323/ER
http://www.airliners.net/photo/American-Airlines/Boeing-767-323-ER/1397177/L/
and on this one:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Belair-(Air-Berlin)/Boeing-767-3Q8-ER/1397462/L/
Probably if you look through airliners.net, you’ll see a lot.
Who sticks so much of his personal time into debunking a “theory” and for what?
It is certain that the people who wrote this, got their compensation for it - from whoever.
“Several planes look a little odd, or have attachments that look odd, and so some people feel they must be part of a decades long conspiracy to spray stuff into the atmosphere to alter the weather or reduce the population. That’s obviously nonsense,”
See the kind of propaganda-anti-propaganda that is applied here? “That’s obviously nonsense” they write. Those seem to be the words of poorminded people in their desperate need for money or a few minutes of virtual fame. If you want to put theory against theory, why do you then force your opinion onto the visitors of this site?
What, can’t a guy have a hobby? I WISH someone would pay me to write this - but no, it’s just a subject I find interesting.
It’s not really a case of theory against theory - it’s more like: what is the evidence?
What IS the evidence that chemtrails are anything other than contrails? Do you have photos that show they look different? Videos that show them acting different? Scientific papers that explain that contrails should not persist and spread out?
No, you don’t, in fact we have the opposite - photos and video that show they look the same, and scientific papers that show that they act the same as contrails.
Which should lead any reasonable person to think that they ARE the same.
Check out this YouTube video of snaking chemtrails forming sinusoidal wave shapes (about 1:37 in):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ja5sOwgl_8
Also, there is this one too which shows two planes at the same height one with contrail one with chemtrail:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9KLLqEL96Y
Any explanation of these two?
Cheers - Nik
So what?
They may be the same - in the end, who cares about the name? It is what they do that should be taken into account. And if you agree that a “contrail” can form a cloud - then what else do YOU need to understand, that there is indeed something going on? Again, even if it is just the “normal effect of aviation” - is it not something to be worried about? If thousands and thousands of planes are crisscrossing the whole planet and spreading -whatever-?
Nik, yes that’s a very unusual trail. Not something you see very often. What do YOU think it might be? Can you think of any conceivable explanation for such a trail?
On the second video, how do you know the planes are at the same height? And then, how do you know they have the same type of engine?
jonathan, well, if you agree that chemtrails are just contrails, then what are you arguing about? That’s what this whole site is saying.
And yes, again, the cloud cover created by contrails IS something to worry about. Hence there are HUNDREDS of scientific papers written on the subject:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=contrails%20radiation
I really don’t know what it is? Very strange though - maybe affected by an external (to the trail) influence.
As for second video they look very similar in height and that is all I can go from as I do not have the flight recordings. As for engines I do not think that they would make any difference because vapour would stay if the conditions were right, regardless of the amount of it.
You do often get contrails that become wavy due to wake turbulence and high level winds. You also get odd trails from rockets. But this one looks like it was perhaps formed by a plane flying S-Turns. Hard to say.
You know, a plane at 30,000 feet looks pretty much the same as a plane at 32,000 feet.
Also, have a look at the photo next to Question #9 here:
http://contrailscience.com/contrail-gaps-and-other-questions/
The more efficient an engine is, the more likely it is to leave a lasting contrail, as there is more water in the exhaust. So newer planes leave longer lasting contrails.
I think we can rule out Dutch rockets! Although I cannot be certain of that fact…All we can do is speculate and without a lot more data it will remain just that. Very strange though…
As for the other video, do you really think that two planes like that would have such a vastly different trail behind them over a height difference of 2000ft? Besides, why does more water produced mean that it would dissipate at a much slower speed? Surely if it is cold enough for ice to form there it would remain for quite a while, particularly if the other plane is spewing out a ridiculously large trail.
How much more water do these new engines produce? In fact, even the old WWII pictures you showed with persistent trails lasted longer than this jet engine, which if we are to believe what we see in the video (i.e. the other plane is producing a large persistent trail at a similar height) both planes SHOULD be producing persistent trails.
The SCIENCE doesn’t appear to add up…
Nik, with respect, do you know what humidity and ice-supersaturation mean here? Do you know the science of contrail formation?
2000 feet can easily make the difference between air that is ice-supersaturated, and air that is not.
Here’s an explanation of how much water is produced per gallon of fuel, and the mechanism of contrail formation. When do you think this was written?
I know that humidity relates to the amount of water in the air. Ice-supersaturation relates to the air being supersaturated, leading to increased production of ice formation when hot moist air meets this type of supersaturated air. I do not claim to be an expert on contrail science, to be fair I didn’t know it was a science unto itself. Perhaps it will be in the future!!
Please don’t get me wrong, I understand the points you are making and I can accept that humidity and air saturation can have an impact on the formation of contrails but the video I was talking about does not really seem to fit into your theory (in my opinion).
I seem to remember (that old saying again) seeing with my own eyes two planes at distinctly different heights with the lower one producing trails and the upper not. If I can capture this on video and send it to you, allowing you to calculate for yourself that the upper plane is almost directly above the lower one, with the lower producing trails and the upper not producing - would you consider this VERY unusual, particularly if the lower one seems very low?
As for age of statement - not sure but to be fair it is only commonly known science they are talking about so I would imagine 50’s.
Contrails formation and persistence is not fully understood. But as a rough rule of thumb, contrails will persist and spread if the relative humidity with respect to ice is above 100%. If it is below 100% then the contrails will evaporate (actually sublimate).
1000 feet can make all the difference between 90% and 110%. Or even 50% and 70%. Enough for contrails to behave differently.
Think of a cloud. Inside the cloud the humidity is high. Outside the cloud it is lower. Not the boundry of the cloud is often very distinct.
Think of a cloud layer. Below the cloud layer the humidity is lower, in the cloud layer it is high.
Now think of the regions of humidity as being like clouds, or cloud layers - but not visible, like invisible clouds. If a plane flies though this invisible cloud, then it’s just making it visible.
Sure, show me tow planes at the same height and we can discuss that. But I’m not sure how you can tell they are at the same height.
The statement I gave was written in 1922. See here (Article at the bottom of the first page):
http://contrailscience.com/wp-content/uploads/argonne-battle-cloud-mwr-049-06-0348b.pdf
very good site you have here! i can verify most of what you have here first hand because i was an aircraft mechanic in the u.s. air force in three different specialty codes. most of the “chemtrail” conspiracies are simply an evolution of the innocent cloud seeding experiments and the other aircraft experiments you’ve described. the paranoid conspiracy theorists blew those way out of proportion and now we have the outlandish “chemtrail” stories of today.
keep up the great work on this site!
I cannot believe this…Who the hell is UNCINUS?
If you tell me that these patterns are merely contrails….you have been paid to make sure nothing of merit gets thru…
EVERYTHING…and I mean EVRYTHING…you debunk as merely CONTRAILS…
so tell me MR.Wizard…..having personally jumped as a HALOJumper(for those who do not know..High Altitude Low Opening..where supplemental oxygen is needed)….tell me why….there are…depending upon the “need”….upon leading edges of real cloud formations….there are several jets..crossing into…as well as framing…cloud formations…..not to mention..there are numerous times..when “clearing”..is used to lower ground temperatures…..all of this is tied to the now secret US ENERGY DEPT….but thats another story…but please tell me….if commercial air is restricted to the upper most level of 49,000 to 56,000 feet…and then ONLY IN AN EMERGENCY (at 52,000 or higher), the upper levels..are MILITARY RESTRICTED…and the jets that are being called into question..are flying at or above these levels……tell me what commercial airline is supplying supplemental oxygen to their passengers for cross-country flights?
If we, as a people were allowed to fly at the very same level…to photograph..we would immediately be intercepted by F-18 fighter jets……so if you can refute anything with real eveidence..I will listen…..with utmost respect……unfortunately..you know I am right….
btw I was also involved in Spec.Ops…with a level 5 SCI level clearance…..for those who are unfamiliar….thats EYES ONLY/Password Clearance
the people deserve the real truth….not sure they can handle it..but they do deserve it……
and all of your misleading reports……are merely proof..that they really do exist…not for what most think….it is tied to energy/oil
and you know it.
ambidukkias66? sorry if I got that wrong….
this person is correct…there were cloud seeding operations…and now the very same technology..is being used….and he is also corred=ct in stating that because of the Conspiracy theorists……now it is all being deemed as paranoid rantings…
but what you are seeing..is real……there is alot of SECRECY…involving the US ENERGY DEPARTMENT….the real Government….being the NSA/NRO and DISA…..funded in part by the big OIL…led by none other than DADDY BUSH..and all of his friends within the intel community…
its real…and there are those of us…who know….have always known…but enjoy LIVING……instead of being worm dirt…..reality is sometimes ugly….doesn’t mean it isn’t reality……
….and they said the Soviets were the only ones involved in disinformation…..
the US…makes the dissemination of “truth”…a business….complete with stockholders….CEO’s…..employees…..and those of us who pay for it to keep it running……
UR, I’m not sure if you are being serious. But you should know that most all airlines fly their cross-country flights at around 30,000 feet, where the plane needs to be pressurized (or supplemental oxygen supplied).
They don’t fly higher because they can’t. A 747 for example has a service ceiling of 41,000 feet, and a 777 has one of 43,100 feet.
Class A airspace extends from 18,000 to 60,000 feet. I’m not aware of any restrictions on altitude other than ATC - could you maybe give a reference?
Unicus.,
I stopped believing in chemtrails because in everyone of these purported chemtrails, I see a gap between the plane and the trail. I can only attribute this to the time it takes hot vapor to freeze. Is my conclusion wrong? Let’s say, hypothetically, that they were spraying chemicals, is there anyway that there would be a gap between the plane and the trail?
Thanks.
That’s a good point Brad. I’m sure there could be a reason for the gap if they were spraying nefarious chemicals - like they could spray out whatever it was as a superheated gas. But then that’s exactly what aircraft exhaust is.
The crap about the Tacamo planes is complete bull shit… The true mission is posted on the website http://www.tacamo.navy.mil/ please read what our mission is then you can stop jumping to conclusions. The picture that has the “chemtrails” coming from under the wings is a fuel dump. The cone on the back of the plane is a weight. Its no sophisticated outlet for chemicals you idiots. And also last thing that made me laugh a lot was the antentas on the end of the wings. That made me laugh a lot. I can not speak for other planes that you have on here but this plane is fine.
Thanks for the Tacamo info, I don’t know if you noticed, but this page is actually debunking the “chemtrail” associations with these photos.
I’d assumed the cone is a something to do with the trailing antenna - is the the weight the goes on the end of the wire for stability?
Can anyone tell me if the Marcus K Dalton that seems to be central to all this is the same Marcus K Dalton convicted of securities fraud? Prior articles list him as the managing editor of the las vegas tribune but his name is not listed as current in that position.
Big Jets have been flying our skies before I was born 1955 and my fascination
with all kind of aircraft has been a passion for me all my life. I cannot resist
watching any plane that flies over head. I always had a special fascination
with the way that a contrail would always evaporate into nothing as big jets
would pass over head. But I have noticed a big change now (since 1980) with
the vapor trail only gits bigger and bigger until it turns into a cloud and then turns
into a whitish haze covering the whole sky. When I notice heavy chem trail spraying
I get a bad eye irritation and bad sinus congestion until I have a huge headache.
I would really like to know the truth about chem trails, and I’m not buying this
“Global Warming” bull because I know that the United Nations only wish to impose
a carbon tax on all of us.
The propeller driven airplane in one of the photos with all the instruments on
the side of the plane is actually a flying laboratory for testing air quality and does
not spray any kind of chemical in our atmosphere.
Please stop making excuses, you are not fooling any of us.
you must have been born after 1980 and don’t remember
clear blue skies all year long.
Charlie, other people HAD noticed the trails back then. There were just far less off them. Various factors make persistent contrails more common now: the number of flights, the type of engine, and the altitude flown at. These have obviously all changed since the sixties.
Where did you grow up? Location makes a big difference as well.
I you were to estimate, how many contrails would you say you saw between 1960 and 1980?
Now, what about this quote from a 1970 paper?
These scientists from 1970 think it’s a “familiar sight”, so what’s going on? Are they lying? Or did you simply not notice, or remember, any persistent contrails before 1980.
Consider also that many people did not notice them until 1990, or 1999 (the Art Bell show that started the whole thing). If you noticed them 20 years before other people, then maybe another set of people might have noticed them 20 years before you? Perhaps that means they are not actually that unusual. Just not particularly noticeable.
I’m really surprised by all of this. With all of the great education in your country, how can something like this get a foot hold?
Sure, the US has perhaps more than its fair share of believers - perhaps related to its strong religious background. But other countries are not immune:
http://www.chemtrailmonitor.org/
http://www.google.com/search?q=sweden+chemtrails
I see one problem here… the weather altering and cloud seeding devices constitute what some would call chemtrails anyway. I either read here or on the NASA page that AgI cloud seeding is incredibly ineffective and unpredictable. So unless they produce no effect in the sky, you’ve slightly substantiated a small portion of the chemtrails theory.
But I have a few questions as well. It’s rude to quote something and not give the source, which 1970 paper is that from in response 105 and who wrote it? What were their affiliations (research labs, climate centers, universities, etc?) Actually, fuel dumping is also noted in some geoengineering texts. Specifically, it was proposed to tune engines to run 1% rich. That is, to make most jets and airliners add a small amount of completely unburnt fuel to act as particulates and reflect sunlight. (see my post in the Barium thread for the source link) Also, you say half of the devices on the research aircraft, registration N701BN are facing the wrong way for a spraying program? I see one facing the wrong way, the singular hose in place of the front-most widow. The device behind it has a large portion of the bare tubing, the tubing running into the horn looking things, and 4 out of 5 of the cone shaped pieces also face the rear of the plane. The large device on the front also faces the rear of the plane. If I recall physics properly, a low pressure vortex would be forming immediately behind the proposed collection device on the front making collection more difficult? The devices on the side appear, to me, to have tubing which enters the front and a support bar just behind that at the thinnest part of whatever they are. Could you explain how they are facing a direction inconsistent with the release of particles and consistent with the collection of particles? Or do the serve a different purpose?
The rocket assist is interesting though, too bad they dump the rockets…
Can you point to a photo of cloud seeding that produces anything that people would call a “chemtrail”? Clouds seeding is done INSIDE CLOUDS. It’s not unusual, or secret. Now if you want to call that “chemtrails”, then feel free - but that simple clouds the issue - people are claiming that there are “unusual trails” in the sky that they call chemtrails. Clouds seeding does not produce trails - but now you want to call cloud seeding “chemtrails” just so you can say “chemtrails exist”. That’s just redefining things to avoid the question: what unusual trails?
Here’s the paper:
http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520-0469/27/6/pdf/i1520-0469-27-6-937.pdf
Sure, you can imagine N701BN spray stuff, at a stretch, but it’s hardly very efficient, it’s only one plane, and it’s very small. So it’s hardly likely to be the culprit. Besides, there’s a vast amount of evidence that it’s used for atmospheric sampling, and none that it’s used for spraying.
So glad I found this site. So much to talk about and so many things citizens want to know. Whatever we are all seeing, I guess first, most all would agree whatever it is being deposited into the atmosphere and skies above us, it is a HUGE pollution problem that can often turn a beautiful clear blue cloudless sky observed in the morning, into a white haze that covers the sky horizon to horizon within a matter of hours.
So let me start by simply giving an account of what I and so many others where I live see on average a couple of times per week here.
I live in Mid-Missouri not too far outside of a small city of less than 100,000 with little manufacturing and only a handful of planes leaving our small airport on any given day. Many days there is simply the usual east-west Kansas City to St. Louis (or vice-versa) commercial air traffic flying over leaving only the usual quickly disapating contrails that ony last for a few seconds or a minute or so (depending on weather) or often no contrails at all from the air traffic.
But, once or twice on average a week, all of a sudden dozens and dozens of planes come out like hornets swarming, flying in loops, right at each other as if they are going to hit each other making perfect x’s and looping back the way they came like they are drunk or lost. These planes no longer leave the quickly disapating contrails but look like a car with bad rings blowing out brilliant white billowing smokey looking trails and the sky becomes one huge mess filling up horizon to horizon with this rapidly spreading stuff. All the while the “regular” east/west traffic flys through often leaving NO trails or only quickly dispating ones at the same time, often even flying through the same mess left by the ‘acrobats’ but still leaving no trails.
When one sees these planes one can get a pretty good idea the altitude makes little difference, sometimes the ‘acrobatic’ planes are even easier to see and appear much closer and sometimes very very low.I have heard some try to say that amateurs simply can’t judge the altitude comparisons of planes, but that I believe is incorrect, after observing for several years I and many others can honestly say altitude cannot account for the differences we are all seeing. I know some might try to plausibly deny this assessment, but after years of obseravtions I stand by this assertion as do many many others used to sky watching. Something HAS to be different in either the fuel or something else the ‘acrobatic’ planes are putting out. And their flight patterns are so laughable again it looks like they are either drunk or lost.
Imagine driving down the highway for years where cars only leave small vapors from their exhausts and normally travel in their correct lanes. And then imagine coming upon a stretch of highway where all of a sudden every car but perhaps one or two is spewing out huge billowing white oil like exhaust and driving on the shoulders and off the road and turning around driving back into coming traffic and driving in circles. That is the night and day difference type thing we are often experiencing here in the skies over Mid-Missouri. SOME type of operation is absolutely OBVIOUS though what it’s intent is can ony be guessed at.
One other thing about this massive ‘pollution’ coming from these operations is that the exhaust looks brilliant white when viewed in the light of day, but once the sun hits the horizon at sundown this stuff looks brilliant red, and then when the sun goes almost away at dusk one can see this stuff looks like very dirty soot hanging in the skies and even starting to drip like precipitation down toward the ground, really really nasty looking.
I suspect this is some kind of ‘cloud seeding’ with perhaps an element of cloud creation as part of the protocol. I think it is obvious if we have cloud seeding programs (as cloud seeding program budgets have been reported for many states) I would suspect on days without clouds that clouds could and would first be created in order to seed into.
I’ll stop with this to get some feedback.
T.A.
T.A. Perhaps you could provide some video of what you are seeing, so we could discuss it.
The contrails changing color as the sun goes down is a result of the sun going down. They appear red when the sun is low on the horizon due to the scattering effects of the atmosphere. They appear gray after it has set because the sun is no longer shining on them.
In this respect, as in most others, contrails are exactly the same as clouds.
Left Tn, reside in rural area in Ky. now. 3 days of spraying this week, none all summer–respect for crops, this is an ag state–cloud seeding??? In October??DUH!
On the third morning, I saw something I’d not seen ever in Tn. spraying.
Within 30 minutes, the mist, vapor, chemtrails, had swelled, turned grayish, and covered the entire sky with a thick, ugly blanket. No longer pretty, wispy, cotton candy clouds, oh no.
Returning from a dr. appt, 35 miles south, I noticed lots of holes where the spray was not uniform and the sky and sun were visible–telling me the shield was there between me and the upper atmosphere.
I read somewhere this is a repair for a hole that had occurred over time (due to certain conditions)in the shield over our atmosphere. It lasted 36 hours before the sky cleared and became clear blue–YOU STOLE OUR SUN!!!
Chemtrails are used in part for the following—
electronic, psychotronic, information weaponry
plasma, electromagnetic, sonic and ultrasonic weapons
strategic, theater, tactical or extraterrestrial weapons
chemical biological, environmental climate or tectonic weapons
1) second day of spraying with chemtrails, a jet flew right in the line of the orchestrated event and left contrails contrasting the chemtrails–quite convincing that these weren’t contrail planes.
Your witnesses??see number 7. If you can pay pilots to poison their own children, who is beyond being bribed??
2) how many plants are you paying to post here?? no matter, all countries counted, we have millions against your 5 ‘debunkers’.
3) as Wildwelder az said, give us a break. I’m not 19–I’m 58, and you can’t tell me I don’t know the difference and being at a pool most days for 15 years, I have also seen the difference in spray compositions over the years.
4) I just read a German scientist account of weather manipulation –add that to our military reports–bingo–barium for creating a shield to try to undo atmospheric damage by industrial nations for 50 years.
5) Liar–people do not travel city to city by rural routes–we don’t even have one or two planes or helicopters here weekly–and those infrequent occurrences are on route to Ft.?????-liar (I will not give you my location)
6) Kucinich, we trust, a paid ‘debunker’ like you, we don’t.
7) Your test results are compromised to say the least–I doubt if these children haven’t figured that out by now.
9) If there were no contaminants in our air, why create this post?? “me thinks the lady protests too much”
10) Conditions for these ice crystals forming are not right for these low-flying planes to make contrails; therefore, they are chemtrails containing hazardous chemicals.
THIS DEBUNKING OF YOUR LIES IS FOR THE VISITORS HERE WHO NEED THE TRUTH–DO NOT RESPOND WASTING TIME WITH YOUR LIES
“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” ~ Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed , second it is violently opposed, and third it is accepted as self-evident.” - Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860
Aristotle said, “Tolerance and apathy are the first signs of a dying society.”
But, once or twice on average a week, all of a sudden dozens and dozens of planes come out like hornets swarming, flying in loops, right at each other as if they are going to hit each other making perfect x’s and looping back the way they came like they are drunk or lost. These planes no longer leave the quickly disapating contrails but look like a car with bad rings blowing out brilliant white billowing smokey looking trails and the sky becomes one huge mess filling up horizon to horizon with this rapidly spreading stuff. All the while the “regular” east/west traffic flys through often leaving NO trails or only quickly dispating ones at the same time, often even flying through the same mess left by the ‘acrobats’ but still leaving no trails.
Thanks, This American, you’ve just described an identical account of the poisoning here.
almost away at dusk one can see this stuff looks like very dirty soot hanging in the skies………………….
and it’s sinister looking, not a pretty color when the sun shines through. I agree.
Yes, This American.
My account–in Tennessee, I also attributed the black soot on my feet(barefoot girl, here, always)to the industrial area where we lived.
In rural Kentucky, not a day of soot until last Friday, first day of spraying and when I came in from getting my tomatoes, first time all summer, guess what was on my feet???
Couldn’t be industries–I am in Kentucky country, rural!!!!!!!!
Black, oily soot from the grass just as in Tn, but never here until first spray??
Coincidence???Hell no. Poison was on my feet and it had to have come from those chemicals from those planes.
If they are contrails, then why didn’t I see this in the 20th century? I have been a sky watcher my whole life and these just started up in my area around 2001. You honestly think that condensation trails are just being noticed now by people? Who the hell is paying you?
Nobody is paying me. I wish someone would.
I think there asre simply more contrails now, and not everyone noticed them in the past. Seeing as the vast majority of people have not noticed anything odd NOW, why is it odd to consider that you might not have noticed them yourself until recently? Especially as air traffic drastically increased over the last 20 years.
“So unless they produce no effect in the sky, you’ve slightly substantiated a small portion of the chemtrails theory.” -Me
“Clouds seeding does not produce trails - but now you want to call cloud seeding “chemtrails” just so you can say “chemtrails exist”.” -Uni
I wasn’t entirely sure how AgI seeding worked, thanks for clearing that up.
This American - Do you have pictures? I’ve noticed the same thing, minus anything noticeable ever hitting the ground. I get a lot of low flying white twin engine jets that leave no trail and occasionally run silent… comparatively, they’re larger than the moon from nose to tail. I also have a small reserve force about 10-15 miles away and there’s a large air force wing at Pittsburgh Intl Airport, 45mins to an hour away depending on traffic (rush hour more like 2 hours.) I’m still up in the air, there is a lot of faked or manipulated evidence floating around which doesn’t help in any way. I over-analyze everything, so while I haven’t really seen any hard evidence, I have seen enough circumstantial evidence that saying they never spray anything doesn’t work with me. It’s the extent of the program(s), the content of the trails, and their purpose that I question. And since I’m in the thread with the pictures, the tanker doing the ice testing could spay any liquid as easily as it does water. Not saying it does, just that it could if they wanted it to…
Question everything, and question what you believe harder… directed at both the contrail people and the chemtrail people, and people in general.
Remember that traffic to local airports is very unlikely to leave contrails, as it will generally be too low. Contrails form for traffic that comes from, and is going to, airports that are hundred or thousands of miles away. San Diego to Paris - that kind of thing.
Heh, if I can get a clear pic do you think you could identify a jet from a mostly bottom view? I know the low flying ones aren’t spraying anything or forming contrails… I used some site that combines google earth, virtual earth, USGS surveys, and a few other satellite image sources to look at Pittsburgh’s airport and all of the air force planes (that are visible) are quad engine and dark grey. They look like tankers or transports, dual jet engines mounted on the wings and appear to be basically all white. I’ve never noticed them on a clear, sunny day… only on days with many trails or cloudy days in which there could be trails above. But then, like I said, they tend to run silent and if I don’t see trails I’m not looking up nearly as much.
I could certainly give it a go. Your planes sound like KC-135 or similar. But could be any of a number of aircraft. See here for the various transport planes used:
http://www.1000pictures.com/aircraft/transport/
Military planes are grey or white for camouflage reasons.
Actually, looking at Google’s images of PA airport, the big military planes are not jets, they are prop planes.
Grey, four engine, USAF on the wing, looks like a C-130 Hercules to me. See here:
http://www.pittsburgh.afrc.af.mil/photos/index.asp?page=3
Uncinus please explain to me which year was “Supersaturated persistent contrail” discoverd? And why do i hear high frequency tones every time i see a chemplane, aurora borealis??
They were discovered in 1921. See:
http://contrailscience.com/pre-wwii-contrails/
I don’t know why you hear tones.
What a load of crap!,this is prob a CIA operated site,don’t believe this garbage.Chemtrails are real i watch them every other day.I have footage of planes almost side by side,one dumping the other not.This site is complete disinfo.and you should be ashamed of yourself.But i suppose I’m just a conspiracy nut ugh,i spose you think Lee Harvy Oswald killed JFK,and the gulf of tonkin really did happen,give me a break.I advise everyone(except you indoctrinated slaves)get away from this site quik smart!
It’s interesting that nearly every person who has come to this site as a chemtrail-believer also accuses Uncinus of being some sort of disinformation agent.
Says something about their mindset, perhaps?
(Apologies for off-topic ruminations…)
Liko, instead of just randomly accusing people, you could behave like an adult and try to disprove the statements made on this site.
How do you know the aircraft were flying next to each other? In RVSM airspace like in the USA the minimum separation for 2 aircraft heading the same way is 2000 feet. No man can guess the altitude of aircraft. Most pilots don’t even try.
This is how it looks from the cockpit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUXfbRkPkNQ
so tell me something then, why do planes fly in grid shapes and next to each other, also upto 5 planes fly at the same altitude next to each other spraying chemicals in the sky, and why do you lie, its your health at risk to my brother
nevermind, the trails from planes form grid shapes where the paths of planes cross. Have a look at the paths of planes here, and you’ll see it would be hard NOT to get grid shapes when contrails are forming:
http://contrailscience.com/britain-from-above-air-traffic/
Planes do not fly “next to each other”. When it looks like they do, one will be 2000 feet above the other, which is perfectly safe and legal. (and it’s actually 1000 feet under RVSM rules)
I’ve never seen five planes flying like that (except for aerobatic shows and skytyping planes). Perhaps you could show a photo of this?
oh you havent havent you, well let me suggest that you come to where i live and then u can see it for yourself, and i might let you look through my teloscope and see for yourself, u can then see that the contrails….hhhhmmm come from the sides of the planes not from the back at wing distance at the rear of the plane, i mean come on get real, this kind of shit just doesnt wash, and you know it doesnt wash because you have been rumble on a world wide scale…. and its spiralling out of controll… face the facts you have been rumbled my freind, and more and more poeple are starting to notice, and if it is a question of people getting the wrong end of the stick why does the mainstream media not set the record straight.??? hmmmmm no matter what you show us to try ridicule the idea, it wont work
CELESTRONJ CPC 1100 XLT PROFETIONAL COMP[UTERISED 11″ TELESCOPE w/ XLT STARBRIGHT COATING 11075….. YOU SHOULD GET ONE THERE VERY GOOD, ESPECIALLY AT SPOTTING EVIL THINGS IN THE SKY. NOW THAT I HAVE SEEN WITH MY OWN EYES, MAYBE YOU SHOULD SEE WITH YOURS,
You might want to think about that. What if I were to show you evidence that chemtrails were contrails?
The only way you can really show anyone that chemtrails are contrails is to collect the residue from contrails/chemtrails and show that there is NOTHING in the residue that shouldn’t be there.
You can spout all you like about persistent contrails in the past etc and that you have the science to back it up but the truth is YOU HAVE NOTHING MORE THAN ANY OF US, because the only way to put this to bed once and for all is to do what I suggest above.
What is there to lose if this is done? IF you are right all along then we are all winners. Perhaps time and effort would be better spent by us all in working out how to do this relatively cheap and simple experiment. But wait a minute, if this experiment was carried out surely the PTB would just ensure the planes involved weren’t spraying that day.
Oh well…looks like we’ll have to find another way to find out!
Cueball, I think that “chemtrails” are actually just persistent contrails because they look and act exactly the same.
Whay do you think they are something different? Where do you get your information on how contrails should behave?
I guessed that you think chemtrails are persistent contrails, I think it was the website that gave it away ;o)
I don’t wish to reveal my sources regarding how contrails should behave but I will say that I would not believe all of the sources you are using. It is very easy to manipulate data to fit a model when you are very far ahead of the rest of the field (if you get my meaning).
So back to my real point - the only way to settle this would be to recover the condensation etc. in a contrail/chemtrail and test it for its property. Agree?
No, I disagree. If I tested a contrail (that you said was a chemtrail), and found it just to be ice crystals, then you’d say I had tested the wrong kind of trail.
A much simpler way of settling it would be to explain how contrails are supposed to behave, and then show some trails that don’t behave like that. Very simple, you can do it from the ground.
Of course to do that, you’d have to explain WHY you think contrails should behave a certain way, and then we are getting into science.
So, Cueball, how should contrails behave? And why?
Errr no, just test the huge sky filling persistent contrails/chemtrails and not those that just disappear immediately behind the planes (or as most people would call them “normal contrails”).
It’s irrelevant how I think contrails should behave, there are MILLIONS of people that don’t think long persistent contrails (chemtrails) of this magnitude are NORMAL.
Not all of the people think that these “chemtrails” are trying to kill people but they do KNOW that they are not normal (in there opinion).
As for it being simpler to test from the ground; this makes it sound like you do not accept my theory or are frightened of the results??
And how do they know this?
Have you read any of the science about contrail persistence?
http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/
How about this quote from a 1981 book on clouds:
Or any of the hundreds of books and papers on clouds and contrails.
CueBall-
Persistent contrails that spread out in a thin haze of cirrus have been studied for over 50 years by atmospheric scientists from around the World. They think persistent contrails of this magnitude are “normal”- normal results from regular air traffic.
Since the FACT that persistent contrails have been known, observed and studied and even peer reviewed for so long, the burden is on those who think they are NOT benign intent contrails to show how and why they think that. Just saying it is doesn’t make it so.
Learn to read scientific research on the behavior of contrails- become knowledgeable about the conditions and variables involved in their persistence. Then you can “know” what is normal and what is not.
There have been and continue to be a lot of sampling of contrails by atmospheric scientists…”in situ” sampling directly from the plume of the trail…
see here for a few examples:
from here: http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1834780
or this:
from here: http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3039674
or this one which specifically links particular persistent contrails to commercial air traffic:
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15775262
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15775262
or this:
from this paper: http://tinyurl.com/42wjzu
taken from here: http://tinyurl.com/3u92fe
What do you make of this quote:
from here: http://tinyurl.com/66qouz
Or this one which follows specific contrails for over 2 hours:
http://tinyurl.com/3fx7sk
This one isn’t sampling contrails but it is measuring aerosols in aircraft exhaust:
http://tinyurl.com/4kapyd
Your answer to this question, on a different subject matter, will shed light on just who you are and your qualifications as a scientist or truth seeker.
Was the WTC on 9/11 destroyed by demolitions?
Please answer this so I may know what/who I am dealing with here.
OK SR1419 - thanks for the links. So we can establish from that info that the crap that comes out of planes affects the air and this has been monitored and sampled. Whoop di doo. I would be interested to see a break down of exactly which chemicals are present in the actual vapour trails being produced (which is all I am asking to be done).
The links also say that persistent contrails (lasting 2 hours plus) make up 50% of all contrails in the US since the 60’s. Bullcrap!! If so, it has taken 36 years for people to suddenly start noticing this en-mass. Yeah right. There must have been a hell of a lot of fluoride in the water during the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s and 90’s!! And as for this being due to lower air traffic and the lack of Internet (which I guess you will use as an excuse) then I do not agree. Air traffic may have increased but internal flights and international flights in the US have still been extremely high during all these decades. As for the Internet, well maybe communication was not as quick before this, but it still occurred and even the slowest pigeon could deliver a message in 36 years.
All your data confirms is that a system of altering the weather via persistent contrails/chemtrails has been known about by the PTB since the 60’s (maybe before), therefore why can’t you or your buddies accept that maybe, just maybe they are using this knowledge to control the weather. It isn’t exactly a great leap of the imagination to accept it. In fact, the evidence you provide confirms it.
I don’t think the PTB are poisoning us with vicious chemicals (although a sample of persistent contrails/chemtrails could prove me wrong) but I do think that fine tuning the fuel additives of the aviation fuel to make it consistently produce persistent contrails (that allow weather modding) is not really too difficult.
But no, you are both probably right, it has always been like this and everything is just normal. We are all just paranoid freaks looking for that extra something in our lives to keep us occupied. Perhaps I should start a website of my own debunking other conspiracy theories, sounds like fun…
Ken, the WTC was destroyed by the planes flying into the towers, and the resultant fire.
I’m sure you think there was a vast conspiracy. But all the 9/11 conspiracy theories regarding controlled demolition are complete nonsense. They have been full debunked elsewhere. I’m not going to discuss 9/11 further, except as it directly relates to contrails. There are lots of other places on the internet for you to discuss that subject. Stick to contrails if you want to comment here.
Cueball, you know that persistent contrails contribute to global warming, right? So why would the “PTB” want to make more of them?
I understand you point about how it seems to you that people started noticing them around the time that the internet took off. But do you have any other actual evidence that is NOT generated from the internet? Like, books or science papers that describe the sky before it changed?
Uncinus - You have revealed yourself for all to see now with the 9/11 comment in your quote:
Not only does this make it sound like your sole intention is to debunk, it also shows a complete lack of scientific knowledge and a total blind ingorance. All I can say to you is read 9/11 Contradictions by David Ray Griffin and you will see that the only conspiracy theory is the one provided by George W Bush et al as the “Official Account”.
Goodbye all and do not waste anymore time trying to argue with this “man” - it is pointless…
(BTW if you don’t publish this it is fine with me, it will just prove my point even further)
It seems like you are simply trying to change the subject here. If you want to talk about 9/11, then there are many places where you can. I just want to keep the discussion here about contrails - unless there is some specific link.
Cueball-
hate to see you go in away in a huff- Try not to get defensive just because some people are not convinced that “chemtrails” are real….
I am just providing data that you asked for and information that helps illuminate the topic.
You said:
“I would be interested to see a break down of exactly which chemicals are present in the actual vapour trails being produced (which is all I am asking to be done).”
This information is out there- read all the papers I linked…and there are many more written by many scientists over the last 50 years…the info is there, you just have to want to find it.
This is a good start:
http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipcc%5Fsr/?src=/climate/ipcc/aviation/038.htm
You said:
“All your data confirms is that a system of altering the weather via persistent contrails/chemtrails has been known about by the PTB since the 60’s (maybe before)why can’t you or your buddies accept that maybe, just maybe they are using this knowledge to control the weather.”
I cannot accept that “maybe” they are using this to control the weather because I see no evidence of it. How exactly is the weather being “controlled”?? The effects of contrail-cirrus clouds are still being studied…they may contribute to warming…they may contribute to global dimming…the jury is still out….There certainly is no evidence of extreme changes in weather patterns that would suggest “control” much less control via contrails…and the changes purported to be from man-made climate change are all from much more easily identifiable culprits such as GHGs…
Persistent contrails have indeed been known about for a longtime (70yrs) but there effects on the atmosphere are still unknown and still being studied and thus not a candidate for the PTB to use to their own nefarious purposes…
The fact is there ARE a lot more planes in the sky now than 20 years ago…and the internet does foster a herd mentality- instantly…people take a picture of a persistent contrail- post it on the internet minutes later and call it a “chemtrail” and have thousands of uninformed people nodding their head in agreement seconds later…That is the reality. No consequence for error on the internet. No legitimate vetting of information. No peer review. The vast majority of “chemtrail” believers are completely ignorant of the reality of persistent contrails and instead are under the assumption that any trail that persists more than a minute or 2 is a “chemtrail” . And they get confirmation from their herd…so it must be true.
Educate yourself on what a contrail is and its known behaviors. The information is there you just have to want to know.
Ken, I have deleted your follow-up post about 9/11, as it is off-topic. If you want to discuss the physics of how the WTC collapsed, then there are many excellent sites on the internet that are specifically for doing that. This site is about contrails and chemtrails.
I’ve been lurking on this site for quite a while and have found the information to be informative and compelling, however I am disappointed that that you would have such a simple view of what occurred on 911. There are many of us in the world that believe that “chem trails” and what happened to the WTC may just be related. Neither issue can be compartmentalized. Ken, I would have liked to see your question answered, or at least not deleted. Anyone watching a demolition side by side with the WTC falling can clearly see that there were explosions going off all over and that was not from the planes. Additionally, if jet fuel were to burn so hot that it could melt steel, wouldn’t it be safe to assume that no planes would be able to fly because the fuel would be so hot that it would melt the fuel tank and the fuel would fall out of the planes? “Food” for thought….. how might a stove work if the fire gets so hot that it would melt steel. People’s ovens would be melting and exploding all over the world. Just my 2 cents.
I’m sorry guys, but I’m not going to allow any more 9/11 talk unless you explain how it pertains to contrails. Irrelevant posts will be deleted. I’ll leave Ryder’s post, above, as an example of the type of post that will get deleted.
The is a specific link between 9/11 and contrails, in the that cessation of commercial air traffic provided a unique opportunity to view contrails in isolation, and to get some data on a few days of weather with very few contrails.
To UNCINUS:
Please do tell us, what contrail information was gathered on 9/11? (as you say, civilian planes were grounded that day.)
You say it was a unique opportunity to view contrails on 9/11. Well then, where and what information/data was gathered on that day please?
Signed,
A Former US Marine
PS. Thank you “Ryder” for calling a spade a spade.
9/11 contrail studies:
Impact of unusually clear weather on United States daily temperature range following 9/11/2001
http://www.ottokinne.de/articles/cr2004/26/c026p001.pdf
Contrails reduce daily temperature range
http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~rennert/etc/courses/pcc587/ref/Travis-etal2002_Nature.pdf
SPREADING OF ISOLATED CONTRAILS DURING THE 2001 AIR TRAFFIC SHUTDOWN
http://ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/40538.pdf
“Where are these barium results? All the tests I’ve seen show normal levels of barium.”
This is the real problem in your argument! What is “normal” and how is it that Barium is acceptable in our air/atmosphere just because it is not a chemtrail?
Why aren’t you using your know how and research to raise awareness to this massive polution problem obviously creating major enviromental concerns (Blocking out the suns rays is a major concern and I don’t care how you justify it).
This the problem I have with the work done on this site. You are concentrated on debunking what may or may not be a Chemtrail issue while failing to recognize that just because they are not Chemtrails or not sprayed on purpose they are “normal” or “harmless”.
I challenge you to point out how this increase in contrail activity is not something to be concerned about. While the Chemtrail issue may be nothing more than conspiracy it at least brings light to a troubling situation. Your work does nothing but detract from the issue and create further ignorance by the population in general.
Use your know how to justify cleaning up this mess and getting the word out to the people that are no doubt being effected by it in one way or another.
I respect the work done here but I do not respect the blind eye that is turned to an issue that is by no means normal or acceptable no matter how it is justified by science or opinion. When a wave of planes flys overhead and turns a blue sky into a grey haze spotted with nicotine colored splotches at low altitudes it is concerning! In a day and age where the trendy thing is to go green and work to clean up this planet I find it astonishing that this subject gets no play at all and is just accepted as an everyday occurance! It should be investigated immedietly regardless of how or why! The fact that media and the Government (both of which can not be trusted) do not cover/debate this in any significant way leads to further speculation.
David, Barium is a chemical, it occurs naturally in the ground, and that’s how it gets into the air. It’s also used in industry, and excess amounts of it count as pollution. However, nobody has shown any evidence of it being sprayed into the air deliberately in the form of contrails.
Contrail are of great concern to scientists, and have been for decades. That’s why I link to the IPCC paper:
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc/aviation/038.htm
I’m fully aware of the concerns of contrails contributing to global warming. I’ve discussed this several times.
Uncinus are you a Disinformation Troll? Now you bring the hoax of Human Global Warming into the chemtrail discussion? Global Cooling has been happening for 2 years since the Sun Spots declined the last 2 years. Do you even know that other planets in our Solar System were also warming from increased sun spot activity until the sun spots stopped recently??
100% of the heat in our solar system comes from our SUN. PERIOD. All energy, even gravitational energy, comes from our SUN.
Global warming is a natural occurance and warmth brings life not death. Plants and animals thrive in high CO2 and warmer weather, while dying in cold weather.
If your research on Chemtrails is anything like your research on the Global Warming Hoax or the fact that 9/11 was indeed an inside job (while you still provide disinfo on 9/11 subject matter), then your research DOES NOT pass any credible review.
Watch out fellow Americans, this is a DISINFO site; a professional troll out to misinform you.
Hi Joe, I’d prefer not to discuss other topics here unless they are directly related to contrails. Thanks for your understanding.
Errr, really? How about the tides? Or the reason we don’t float off into space? That’s the Sun’s gravitational energy?
Joe B.:
I wasn’t going to respond to this, but gravity is a FIELD. The separation of one body possessing mass and another body possessing mass, each exerting their own gravitational field, determines the force between them, and thus their potential energy of separation. If you fall from a great height you will hurt yourself.
Apart from that the Earth is in effect a nuclear reactor, breaking down the fissile materials within to liberate heat and outgassing radon and noble gases.
And falling upon the Earth from all directions are the cosmic blasts from dying stars, merging black holes, and other more distant and less understood phenomena.
The best temperature for ANY photosynthesis is 23 degrees C. How much plant life is in the Sahara?
Presumably the rest of us don’t need your warning. Good luck in your last refuge.
Without the Sun’s gravitational pull, EARTH and all planets would not have even formed as planets because it takes the Sun’s gravitational/energy pull to keep planets together. Planets are formed from the SUNS gravitational pull; planets would not even be “round” or even formed at all if the SUN was not here. PERIOD.
The Earth’s Tides are caused by OUR MOON, another object that was put together by the power of our Suns gravitatonal pull and kept in place/orbit by the gravitational pull of the Sun.
Without our Sun (hence our Suns heat & energy) there is no light, no life, no water, no Earth/Planets and thus no Solar System. Everything in our Solar System receives its energy from our Sun. There would not even be planets except for the energy (gravitational Pull) of our Sun that holds them together.
Sun = God of All Life in our Solar System
Without our Sun there is NO “Solar System” or “planets” for us to live in/on.
You seem to be getting lost in semantics here. What does the formation of the solar system have to do with contrails?
Please try to stay on topic, or I’m going to have to start deleting comments.
I’m sorry Joe, but if you want to argue global warming with Jazzroc, then I suggest you do it on his blog:
http://jazzroc.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/19-global-dimming/
contrailscience is limited to discussions regarding contrails, things that look like contrails, and their effects.
The moon stays in orbit around Earth because of the Sun’s gravitational pull? Not the Earth’s? You live and learn.
Sorry James, Joe B. appears to be right.
Without the Sun, the Earth would never have formed; thus, the moon is irrelevant without the sun.
Joe’s original point was simply that he thinks that global warming is caused by fluctuations in solar radiation, and that “chemtrails” are some attempt to manipulate this effect. The misunderstanding regarding gravity was related to him emphasizing the important role of the sun in the creation of the orbits in the solar system. The moon got where it is because of the sun. But it currently goes around the earth because of the earth. Besides, tides are nothing to do with solar radiation.
This serves to confuse the central point here, that there is no evidence that “chemtrails” are anything other than normal persistent contrails.
Here are some examples of your ignorant comments that I will refute:
LINE 26 - Uncinus, you have said that different sprays happen below normal contrail levels, so they can’t be chemtrails. HELLO! Chemtrails happen below normal contrail levels, and therefore cannot be a contrail.
LINE 60 - I’m not sure what you’re saying here, but it’s giving reasons why chemtrails exist.
LINE 129 - When you say that when planes are 2000 feet apart, they can look like they’re side-by-side. Then you state that they’re not allowed to be so close… so they’re not 2000 feet apart and it can be seen that they’re far apart.
LINE 143 - You state that chemtrails contribute to global warming; however it is exactly the opposite. They COOL DOWN the planet therefore slowing/reversing global warming. I’m not stating this is the reason they put chemtrails in our atmosphere, I’m just saying it’s a side affect.
LINE 153 - You said no one has done tests to show Barium in chemtrails; however I’ve been on quite a few sites that mention Barium or other heavy metals. Here is one such site:
http://www.rense.com/general82/chemit.htm
Hopefully, Uncinus, you will pull your head out from the hole you have so ungraciously shoved it in.
Kyle, thanks for the questions, I’ll address them individually:
I was saying that clouds seeding happens at a lower level than where contrails usually form. Are you claiming that ALL “chemtrails” form at altitudes lower than where contrails form?
The point is that if you spray something from a great altitude then it will spread out evenly, and not in clusters. Clusters indicates something is ground based - such as living near a natural source of barium.
The 2000 feet is vertical. Planes are allowed to fly with 2000 feet of vertical separation. If they are closer than that vertically, then they need five miles of horizontal separation.
No, contrails are thought to have a net warming effect, see:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/06/060614-contrails_2.html
I actually said “All the tests I’ve seen show normal levels of barium.” The test you link shows normal level of barium for dust, they simply got their math wrong. There’s a full explanation here:
http://contrailscience.com/chemtrail-non-science/
If chemtrails are actually persistant contrails or whatever, then why do they spread out all across the sky. If these milky overcasts are from normal contrails, then why isn’t there some scientific group trying to find out how to stop the contrails from spreading out over the sky?
Also, on another blog, you said that contrails are contributing to global warming. But if chemtrails are contrails… and they’re covering the sky (which is where the sun is if you were confused about that too)… then how come it’s getting hotter instead of colder, because the rays of the sun can’t get all the way down to the ground.
Also, the aircraft that are creating chemtrails are all white. How come there aren’t “persistant contrails” coming from normal planes? Almost all of the time, the planes spreading the chemtrails aren’t following the normal flight patterns, and almost always are breaking flight rules and regulations. How can you explain that, besides the obvious.
I just considered something. You’re not so great with the obvious, Uncinus, so the obvious is that they are military aircraft leaving chemtrails.
They spread out because they are clouds, and so they spread for the same reasons clouds spread - they are blown apart by wind sheer. See:
http://ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/80850.pdf
“vertical wind shear is the primary mechanism responsible for the contrail spreading”
There are no groups trying to stop it, because it is not considered enough of a problem. But many people feel it might be contributing to climate change, so there is a lot of research into how it might be minimized. See:
http://www.google.com/search?q=contrail+mitigation
You ask:
That’s explained here:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/06/060614-contrails.html
Could you provide some evidence of your claims about the unconventional nature of “chemtrail” aircraft. They seem the normal mixture of jets based on the various photos and videos on the internet.
That’s during the day. They reflecting sunlight back into space, as well as bouncing radiant heat from the ground back to the ground.
That’s during the night. There’s no sunlight, but they’re STILL bouncing radiant heat from the ground back to the ground.
That you can see just by adding up what is happening.
Obviously not, if “aircraft are believed to be responsible for 2 to 3 percent of human CO2 emissions”.
What of the 97 to 98 percent NON-aircraft emissions?
I don’t think they are talking about the effect of aircraft C02 emissions, but rather about the radiative forcing from the ice crystals that make up contrails.
chemtrails are not contrails; they linger in the sky and are dumped during weather modification efforts
silver iodide is the nucleus that is in fact a chemical; when dumped this leaves a chemical trail; not like the normally accepted “contrail” that has engine exhaust and condensation as the nucleus. silver iodide is a flat hexagonal shaped crystal that enables it to attract more ice since ice itself is hexagonal in shape. this is why chemtrails stay in the sky longer than contrails.
also contrails do not break up mid trail or leave a dotted trail.
contrails are mostly ice and do not disrupt normal clouds as silver iodide and ammonium iodide are still visible even as it attempts to, but does not, merge with normal clouds; unlike contrails.
this is a wonderful effort to maintain misinformation; as well as validation for items that conspiracy sites confuse as part of weather mod. there are far too many photos and videos showing unusual flight patterns and trails for this subject to be a theory.
do not take the uneducated assumptions from sites like, godlikeproductions, abovetopsecret, and prisonplanet only to then associate them generally in efforts to group them into observations of weathermod only to say that chemtrails do not exist. the reason people are reaching out of thin air for explanations is because the majority of people today dont even know about weather modification; they believe it to be science fiction still or even an act that only “god” can perform.
nwiwmc.org - NAU type entity that umbrellas weather mod efforts in Mexico, All provinces of Canada, and the UNITED STATES.
Illuminator,
You say chemtrails are not contrails but after careful examination it becomes evident that old contrails lingered in the sky also.
This website has more than enough evidence showing that contrails linger and have for decades. I’m not about to stop looking up
but I would warn against concluding that you are able to discern a chemtrail v. contrail by eyesight alone. I have been scouring old movies and persisting contrails can be seen in old westerns and many other movies going back to the 70’s and before.
To Kyle. I see USAF planes flying the same paths above me on contrail free days as well as days that they leave spreading trails.
I don’t see evidence of additional USAF traffic on days that contrails form and persist. In my area, their flight activity doesn’t seem
to vary in a way that points to intentional sky painting. That said, Wright-Anderson AFB in Ohio has been very interested in weather modification dating back to the 40’s. Their interest appears to extend further than traditional cloud seeding
Regards,
Bryan
It’s useless to argue about chemtrails. If they spray us they won’t tell us and they’ll make everything in their power to make this quite. The more interesting thing is that in fact they have lied to us on so many occasions that it’s perfectly normal for us not to believe them. Yet most of the people just don’t know and if they know, they just don’t care. “What can we do?” asked a person here, “We are just normal ppl, we can’t fight the government” and thats where you get to the point that the government wanted all along. Slaves that know they are powerless to stop the ruling elite, slaves that are controlled by a corporate society and have been RFID tagged. 90% of the american ppl don’t know how their financial system works. Who prints the money? “The government” say most of the interviewed. But it’s not the government. It’s really sad to see how people are so busy working that they don’t have the desire to research vital things like who controls the monetary supply and why did “we” invade Iraq. You see I’m not an american I live in EU and let me tell you - people around here know more about the USA in terms of government regulations and control then the americans. It’s really sad to see how your own government has dumbed you down to this… Puppets controlled by the TV and the global media. A country ruled by money, that pretends to be the moral authority of the world. Pathetic. I am glad that the americans won WW2 but that doesn’t give you the authority to police the globe. All the pretty words your leaders spew out are just that - words. Your actions speak for themselves. So now that your government brought the war on the civilian american population, who can you blame but yourselves?
Marty, the discussion here is really about if there is any good evidence that “chemtrails” are any different from contrails. If they are, then the state of the government or the people is irrelevant, as sensible people should be able to tell the difference. Can you tell the difference between “chemtrails” and contrails? Care to enter that discussion?
Uncinus,
At last, we agree on something. SENSIBLE people CAN tell the difference! That is why this website that you use as your tool of deception is disgusting and immoral.
As Jus Marty said: “It’s really sad to see how your own government has dumbed you down to this… Puppets controlled by the TV and the global media.”
So true. That is the catylist of your tool of deception. Your job is so easy. The majority of society has already been dumbed down and programmed by the media. Oblivious to what is going on right in front of their own eyes because they are either too busy or focused on an ipod or talking on a cell phone etc… All you have to do is feed them images backed by various government agencies such as NASA or NOAA and lead them to believe that it is proof that everything you say about contrails or chemtrails must be true. In reality, you have provided nothing that proves that the countless reports coming from concerned citizens around the globe are not what they claim them to be. All you do is tell people that they are mistaken, they aren’t really seeing what they think they are seeing and they dont really remember things as clear as they think they do. If that doesn’t work, then you and your cohorts such as (”I cant believe what I am reading”) Jazzroc and SR1419 gang up and ridicule the person and try to portray them as either a conspiracy theorist or some kind of nut job. Then you offer your version of what they must have seen even though you were not there with the person or people that actually wittnessed the event. Then to insult ones intelligence even further, you insist that all of the trails that have been documented in photos and on video that persist and continue to grow and grow and spread out, forming a thick blanket that spreads across the entire sky, under any weather condition, at any location etc… etc… etc…, are nothing more than normal condensation from a jet engine.
Whether chemtrails exist or not, do you not see how utterly obsurd your position is on this matter uncinus? You can feed the people with all of your pictures and so called proof of persistent contrails and tell them that it is backed by scientific data and that it has always been this way because you have old photographs to prove it etc… etc… etc…, but in the end, all one has to do is apply simple logic and common sense to tell them that a water vapor trail will dissipate under most conditions and not continue to grow, especially on a hot dry day with practically no humidity in the air. You really are relying on the dumbing down factor to accomplish your mission aren’t you.
By the way, where is your proof that any of these photos that you like to refer to are even real? If they are real, then prove that the trails that are depicted in them are actually contrails and not something else. While you are at it, prove that any of the trails documented in the countless photos and videos from around the world and being reported as chemtrails are not chemtrails as claimed to be.
Then when you are done doing that, perhaps you can explain the following documents:
“Geoengineering, A Manhattan Project” authored by Jay Michaelson about 10 years ago. It explains in detail about a proposal to “engineer” the global climate in order to counter the “global warming” crisis. (another myth with a hidden agenda) It describes how to accomplish it by utilizing civilian and military aircraft to disperse aluminum and other particles into the atmosphere and even discusses the damage to the environment and the health effects that will result from it as an acceptable circumstance.
or
“The Planet Needs a Sunscreen,” Wall Street Journal, October 17, 1997. By Edward Teller (director emeritus, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory)
or
“Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Bases” A 994 page study presented in 1992. It can be found here: http://books.nap.edu/books/0309043867/html/index.html
In conclusion, the N.A.S. found that the most effective global warming mitigation turned out to be the spraying of reflective aerosol compounds into the atmosphere utilizing commercial, military and private aircraft. This preferred mitigation method is designed to create a global atmospheric shield which would increase the planet’s albedo (reflectivity) using aerosol compounds of aluminum and barium oxides, and to introduce ozone generating chemicals into the atmosphere. The full involvement of foremost government agencies, research firms, universities and private corporations are detailed in this global ‘geoengineering’ study.
or
The Science of “Air Pharmacology” By James E. Phelps, Copyright 2005
Much of Jim Phelps work was at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Tennessee (ORNL) which is funded by the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE). He developed the concept of air pharmacology while working at ORNL. The entire art of pharmacology is about how to add one more toxic effect to mitigate another from industry or environment. The chemtrail technique is basically air pharmacology.
Of course, uncinus and his cohorts will attempt to discredit anything that I submit for posting on this site, as that is the purpose of this site (to debunk the existence of chemtrails). However, since this site is moderated by uncinus which means that he screens everything first and then posts it after he approves it. Of course, this also gives his crew research time to formulate a response that will always counter anything that is ‘non-contrail’. Bottom line is, you will only see what uncinus wants you to see on this website. I have submitted comments for posting that were not posted for whatever reason. Think for yourself and trust your own judgement and keep looking up.
No, actually, I’m relying on science.
Perhaps you could explain your “simple logic and common sense”, and tell me what numbers it arrives at for the humidity and temperature that would be required for contrails to persist and spread out?
Are those numbers different from the numbers that basic science arrives at? Or do you think that all the science books are somehow in on the conspiracy.
Unicinus says:
“Are those numbers different from the numbers that basic science arrives at? Or do you think that all the science books are somehow in on the conspiracy.”
Conspiracy? Label it how ever you want to. I prefer to stick with reality however. Why does simple logic and common sense have to have numbers attached to it? You see, that’s the beauty of it. Common sense is just that. It does not require a scientific formulation because it is that simple. If it is 110 degrees outside and dry to the bone with no rain in the forecast and not a cloud in the sky, a jet is not going to produce a contrail so thick that it continues to grow and grow without dissipating, forming a thick blanket of whatever it is and eventually falling to the ground instead of evaporating like any other condensation would on a hot day. If I had a device that would produce a cloud of fog from condensated water that allowed me to stand there and spray it out of a nozzle all day long, there would be no sign of the condensation immediately after I shut it off, especially on a hot dry summer day. Why do you need anything other than common sense to see the logic in that? All you are doing by saying things like that is attempting to distort reality and discredit the truth by implying that it cant be true because it was not derived at through some sort of scientific model. If there is any conspiracy going on it is right here with you trying to manipulate the minds of innocent people into believing your ‘contrail theory’ in an attempt to prevent the masses from finding out that we are being sprayed like insects. The reason that you are getting away with it is because the truth is so horrifying that the majority of the people refuse to believe it could actually be happening and that their own government would sell them out like this. Then there is part of the population that is just simply oblivious to any of it and dont have a clue. Unfortunately, those of us that still have any common sense and are still able to think independently without being manipulated are just a minority of the population, which allows you to ridicule and place labels on such as ‘conspiracy theorist’. I am aware that most people would rather stick with the status quo than have a label placed on them and become an outcast even if it means going against their own beliefs. All I can is educate as many people as I can while I can. It is amazing how many people realize it once they actually open their eyes and take the time to actually observe it. They are so busy looking down that they didn’t have a clue. Once they actually stop and look up they are shocked that it has actually been going on right in plain sight yet hiding from them at the same time. It is a real eye opener and a slap in the face at the same time. But it must be done. You have your mission and I have mine. I would much rather have mine any day. I can only imagine having to answer to whoever it is that you have to answer to uncinus, jazzroc, sr1419 and the others of your kind. What is the price to sell your soul for anyway?
You think they went to the moon using just common sense? Science is useful sometimes.
For instance, common sense might tell you that it’s the same temperature at 40,000 feet as it is on the ground. But then, surely even common sense would point out that it gets colder the higher you go. Science gives you a useful rule of thumb, the “lapse rate”, which is the rate at which it gets colder. This actually varies with humidity, which also varies depending on what weather systems are moving in. But a useful rule of thumb is temperature drops 3.5F for every 1000 feet, which is 35F every 10,000 feet.
It’s a lot more complicate than that as well, so let’s just stick with common sense. It’s a lot colder where the planes fly. Cold enough to freeze the moisture in the exhaust.
Well then uncinus, what you are actually trying to say is that under any weather condition, every jet contrail that is made is going to remain persistent and grow in size until the sky is totally blanketed every time no matter what the weather conditions are like on the ground?
If that is not the point that you are trying to make, then perhaps you would like to explain the conditions that a dissipating contrail would be likely to form under. You know, the kind of contrail that me and everyone else that I have talked to, are used to seeing prior to about 10 years ago before this even became an issue. The kind that still exist right along side of the ever expanding freaks that now pollute our skies regularly and sink to the ground without dissipating at all. You may be able to convince alot of easily manipulated people that those ever expanding freaks that you call contrails are “normal”, but there are plenty of people that just know better based on their own life’s experiences, and yes, common sense. There are days when weather conditions are such, that a contrail should normally dissipate like they always have without question. Contrary to what you want everyone to believe, one does not need to seek a scientific explanation to know when something out of the ordinary is taking place. Once again, you throw in your spiel about how science says it could be the right conditions at 40,000 feet and then dodge the subject by throwing out numbers and data and then try to convince people not to trust their own judgement or use any common sense or reasoning that does not involve a scientific formula. Sure, science is useful sometimes uncinus, and sometimes it is also used when it need not be used. Sometimes it is used manipulate and to distract from the basic issues. When used in that way, the intentions are never good.
No, I’m saying that for contrails to persist and spread there needs to be particular atmospheric conditions where the plane is flying. The conditions are obviously going to be VERY different from the conditions on the ground.
It’s not just me saying this. It’s every single book or article on atmospheric physics, clouds, meteorology, the weather, etc. Are you saying that every books on clouds written in the last hundred years is wrong, and that you are right?
unicinus says:
“No, I’m saying that for contrails to persist and spread there needs to be particular atmospheric conditions where the plane is flying. The conditions are obviously going to be VERY different from the conditions on the ground.”
Once again you have sidestepped the issue and failed to answer the question. First of all, I have always said that for contrails to persist and spread there needs to be particular atmospheric conditions. That is actually the point I have been trying to make. I am very aware of the fact that the conditions are different on the ground then they are at 40,000 feet. So why are you even bringing this up? Because you cant answer the real question? Also, as usual, you feel that it is necessary to add to it by telling me that it is in all of the books on clouds etc… when this is something that I am aware of and absolutely agree with. I have never implied that I disagree with that. So, to avoid the real issue, you throw in your little stab at my credibility and start rambling on about something completely irrellevent. It is the last line that shows your true colors however, when you insinuate that I think I am right and all of the books are wrong. Why would you even say that except to attack my credibility? If you are not involved in this sickening act against humanity then what motivates you to attack my character anyway. Why are you so consumed with making sure that nobody believes the personal experiences of people from all around the world who are reporting about it? This website alone is an indication of your obsession with it. You are so determined to make sure that no one believes any of these peoples reorts of their personal experiences just because because you assume that they are mistaken when you have no way of actually knowing that for sure. That just creates more reason for people to be concerned.
Try to stick to the subject next time and just answer the question without sidestepping it and taking a stab at my character or credibility. Or is that too much to ask?
rudedog, I’m not trying to take a stab at your character or your credibility, and I’m sorry if I gave you that impression.
I also apologize to not answering your question, I thought I had done so. You’ve written a lot above, and I’m not sure what question you are now referring to. If you would like a answer, then could your state your question again in one or two sentences? Thanks.
I am very impressed with this site and the patience dealing with comments. Being a complete airplane nut I was mostly impressed with the aircraft modifications explained here. People coming in to this argument need to realize that the distance to 30,000′ is very far, 5,280′ is a mile, so its a ways up, in that distance there are many variations in air currents, weather patterns, temperatures, etc. that can disrupt or change the appearance of contrails, any literal spraying of chemicals (and i’m not going to deny that it is done, but it isn’t a secret) must be done at very low altitudes. I witnessed aerial drops in the fires this year in california and they are quite a spectacle, very low flying, large planes flying in, over, through very rough terrain. If “spraying” was being done as tests on the public, it would have to be done through low flying tankers, as high altitude drops would be almost no effect, or very delayed. This theory is the only one that has absolutely no basis on fact that I have seen, a little research on the effects of air currents and a little knowledge of aircraft is all thats needed to completely laugh at these claims. From just sifting through the comments it looks like this thread is a fantastic source of information about all of these claims.
Rudedog, I quote you…
Now I would love to see the video, or time lapse of a so called chemtrail sinking to the ground.
Contrails can exit close to the ground, but only in conditions where the air close to the ground is as the air is many 10 of thousands of feet high. This can happen near the north or south poles.
However they never “sink to the ground”. Never ever…
I applaud you for using common sense, as it shows individuality, thinking is how the human race advanced. However, you have to listen to others, and science as well. Science gives you the ability to enter this forum and comment, not common sense.
Contrails have been 100% proved to be ice crystals forming around the aerosols ejected by an engine operating, generally at high altitude, in favorable conditions. I guess in one way of thinking, you could then say it is then a chemtrail as it has these aerosols, which are essentially chemicals.
The whole argument here though is really, are the contrails just a result of aircraft exhaust and have no use, or are they “sprayed” and have a sinister use. That is the conspiracy.
The answer is NO, they have no sinister use, they are not making you sick. They can make a nice clear sky look murky, which is a shame, and as pointed out, they have a net “global warming” effect. (but very minor - common sense told me that one)
I am really a lot more worried, and so should everyone else be, by the exhaust fumes vehicles and factories pump out right into the air we actually breath. Now that CAN make you sick.
Investigation into trails tells us that they expand over time.
But someone else seeing this expanding might apply the logic that if something gets bigger it means it’s getting closer.
That is why I believe that some people think that the trails sink.
Good point. The human brain did not evolve to judge the height or distance of clouds. So if a cloud spreads out towards the horizon, then some people might well think it was sinking towards the ground.
A few photos should be able to settle this.
MyMatesBrainwashed:
They certainly do! In fact, by so much as to be scarcely credible!
If you check out the conclusions drawn in the report “Contrails to Cirrus” in the “LINKS” list on the left of the page, you will notice it says (I have converted the scientific maths terms back to layman’s):
And if you’re not sure what “three to four orders of magnitude”, it means by a factor between ONE thousand and TEN thousand times.
This means that it is possible for a 5,000 kilometre Boeing 747 flight through a saturated stratosphere to put EIGHTY THOUSAND TONS of ice into the sky!
I still can’t believe this… …but skies that turn white seem almost inevitable…
There are aircraft that do conduct some type of spraying. I have personally observed multiple aircraft spraying emiting these trails and other aircraft higher than these with the standard contrail behind them not emitting. After the spraying would occur these trails would desperse and clouds would begin to form. The air quality was also noticibly poorer as well after the spraying. These aircraft do exist and are spraying something, tomorrow rain is forecast for my area I will observe the orgin of the rain (checking to see if clouds move in from the ocean as they normally do generally coming up the coast from Mexico or west from the Pacific instead of “forming” over land) as well as attempting to observe any spraying.
How do you know they are “spraying” and not just leaving a persistent contrail?
The differences in trails you witnessed could be from planes flying through different pockets of air…or different planes with different types of engines. Engine types play a role in contrail formation for a number of reasons.
To say a plane is definitely “spraying” something with the only evidence being a persistent trail viewed from at least 6 miles away is not a logical nor likely scenario.
You are doing yourself a great disservice to automatically assume they are “spraying” something simply because you see a trail persist and spread in cirrus clouds.
research contrail cirrus.
haha, this website is funny.
I hope you people trust your own eyes and don’t listen to these shills spin their bull at you. CHEMTRAILS are OBVIOUS to anyone who hasn’t been brainwashed yet…and THERE ARE NO QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. Give all the “scientific” hoopla that you want…WE AREN’T BUYING IT!…hahah, but this site is HILLARIOUS
Come on my “head in the sand” crew, it is all mapped out for the millitary right here in this report that was done in 1996!
Quote from the Report: “The number of specific (weather) intervention methodologies is limited only by the imagination, But with few exceptions they involve infusing either energy or chemicals into the meteorological process in the right way, at the right place and time.” (Page 21)
http://csat.au.af.mil/2025/volume3/vol3ch15.pdf
We are currently the millitaries test tubes for this experiment…so that they can “Control the weather by 2025″ (that is the title of the report)
What does the Military say about that?
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-051013-001.pdf
And presumably this is a worldwide conspiracy? (As we have our own local branch of chemtrail believers down here in New Zealand.)
Who would be doing this spraying in New Zealand? Our airforce is nothing but a handful of (old) transport planes.
Our government doesn’t even let US navy ships into our harbours. Why would they play along with this particular ‘experiment’?
Ahh, yes, that pesky old science, with its stupid ‘facts’ and ‘proof’. Who needs it when things are ‘obvious’. I mean, the Earth spins around the Sun?! Pull the other one…
I love it- “we aren’t buying” science…
but we will buy shrill fear-mongering based on lies and devoid of evidence.
Good luck with that.
I dont know whats going on…all I know is that here in New Mexico I can see streaks forming over albuquerque and to the north over Sante Fe. I live in the desert and can see very far in every direction…the contrails seem to cluster around the populated areas and leave the deserts untouched…Im lucky to live in a desert I guess.
I have seen planes fly over my house leaving a normal contrail and in the distance suddenly start leaving a constant streak over albuquerque that will last for an entire day! this happens over and over again all day somtimes lasting for weeks on end.
SOMETHING IS HAPPENING AND ITS NOT CONTRAILS.
Hi, I find your arguments rational if a little one sided - i have no proof either way but you seem unable to even imagine that the chemtrails could be real?
In any event i would really love you to explain this video footage to me as i am at a loss to explain it in any rational way other than there is something to the chemtrail theory: please see
http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=chemtrail+plane&www_google_domain=www.google.co.uk&hl=en&emb=0&aq=0&oq=chemtrail+#q=chembows&hl=en&emb=1
Then please explain to me
1) how that plane turned off its “con”trail ? (surely this is not usual if this is a normal aircraft emission - the plane is still flying not falling out of the sky so its engines must still be on)
2) what is the couloured haze and small rainbow like things seen in this video (they are real phenomenon i have myself noticed these things - they are not natural rainbows)
I can certainly imagine it - it’s not hard to imagine a secret spraying program. The point is that there is no evidence that this is actually happening. All the supposed “chemtrails” look EXACTLY like contrails.
1) it is flying in and out of regions of air that don’t support contrail formation due to lack of moisture. See also:
http://contrailscience.com/broken-contrails/
2) It’s a 22 degree solar halo with a sun dog (also called a parhelia). These have been observed for thousands of years. They are the result of ice crystals in the air. Contrails are made of ice crystals, so can contribute to this phenomena. See nice photos and explanation here:
http://www.atoptics.co.uk/halo/parhelia.htm
1) it is flying in and out of regions of air that don’t support contrail formation due to lack of moisture. See also:
This cannot be true as there is a trail it is flying along quite close to it that is perfectly well formed - look again! Its in parallel flight next to a trail (of whatever kind) and its trail suddenly stops even though the trail next to it is perfectly visible - proof that the air could support contrail formation - plus i dont see how the air could have such a deliniation of air typesin such a neat way?
also i found a document from the us military wrote recently that admits they ARE spraying barium so there IS something to some of the chemtrail theory !
Please see :
http://www.luxefaire.com/devilvision/appxhtml/BappendixparticulatesB.html
Its quite a long doc sorry (i didnt write it !)
I also have the data for barium and aluminium deposition in the UK and it is alarmingly high
http://www.uk-pollutantdeposition.ceh.ac.uk/sites/uk-pollutantdeposition.ceh.ac.uk/files/UK_HeavyMetals_Final_report_2006_final_version.pdf i would save you the hassle of reading all 120 pages - take a look at the table on page 20.
So there is proof they are spraying barium compounds to act as a kind of aerial antenna. What do you say to that? Whether or not they mean us harm is up for discussion but they are aware of the potential health effects (see later down the page in the first link).
Best Wishes, Im not trying to proove you wrong, merely put out information. I wish you well
Further:
Applicant(s):
The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy, Washington,
Issued/Filed Dates: Aug. 12, 1975 / July 22, 1974Application Number: US1974000490610
IPC Class: B64D 1/16;
Class: Current: 244/136; 040/213; 116/214; 241/005;
Original: 244/136; 040/213; 116/114.F; 241/005;
Field of Search: 244/136 040/213 241/5,29 222/3;4 239/171 116/28 R,114
R,114 F,114 N,124 R,124 B,124 C
Legal Status: Gazette date Code Description (remarks) List all possible codes for US
Aug. 12, 1975 A Patent
–
July 22, 1974 AE Application data
–
Abstract
Light scattering pigment powder particles, surface treated to minimize inparticle cohesive forces, are dispensed from a jet mill deagglomerator as separate single particles to produce a powder contrail having maximum visibility or radiation scattering ability for a given weight material.Attorney, Agent, or Firm: Sciascia; Richard S.; St. Amand; Joseph M.; Primary/Assistant Examiners: Blix; Trygve M.; Kelmachter; Barry L.
U.S. References: Show the 1 patent that references this one
Patent Issued Inventor(s)
Title
US1619183* 3 /1927 Bradner et al.
US2045865* 6 /1936 Morey
US2591988* 4 /1952 Willcox
US3531310 9 /1970 Goodspeed et al. PRODUCTION OF IMPROVED METAL
OXIDE PIGMENT
USR0015771* 2 /1924 Savage
* some details unavailable
CLAIMS:
1. Contrail generation apparatus for producing a powder contrail having
maximum radiation
BACKGROUND
The present invention relates to method and apparatus for contrail generation and the like. An earlier known method in use for contrail generation involves oil smoke trails produced by injecting liquid oil directly into the hot jet exhaust of an aircraft target vehicle. The oil vaporizes and recondenses being the aircraft producing a brilliant white trail. Oil smoke trail production requires a minimum of equipment; and, the material is low in cost and readily available. However, oil smoke requires a heat source to vaporize the liquid oil and not all aircraft target vehicles, notably towed targets, have such a heat source. Also, at altitudes above about 25,000 feet oil smoke visibility degrades rapidly.
SUMMARY
The present invention is for a powder generator requiring no heat source to emit a “contrail” with sufficient visibility to aid in visual acquisition of an aircraft target vehicle and the like. The term “contrail” was adopted for convenience in identifying the visible powder trail of this invention. Aircraft target vehicles are used to simulate aerial threats for missile tests and often fly at altitudes between 5,000 and 20,000 feet at speeds of 300 and 400 knots or more. The present invention is also suitable for use in other aircraft vehicles to generate contrails or reflective screens for any desired purpose. The powder contail generator is normally carried on an aircraft in a pod containing a ram air tube and powder feed hopper. Powder particles, surface treated to minimize interparticle cohesive forces are fed from the hopper to a deagglomerator and then to the ram air tube for dispensing as separate single particles to produce a contrail having maximum visibility for a given weight material. Other object, advantages and novel features of the invention will become apparent from the following detailed description of the invention when considered in conjunction with the accompanying drawing……
CONTRAIL POWDER FORMULATION
Ingredient % by Weight
_______________________
TiO2 (e.g., DuPont R-931)
85
median particle size 0.3µ
Colloidal Silica (e.g., Cabot S-101 Silanox)
10
primary particle size 0.007µ
Silica gel (e.g., Syloid 65)
5
average particle size 4.5µ
SECTIONS, HIGH ALTITUDE, NUCLEAR CLOUDS, COMMUNICATION AND RADIO SYSTEMS,
RADIO SIGNALS, BARIUM, BOTTOM, RADIO RECEPTION.
Identifiers: Avefria operations, Barium clouds, Cloud bases, Base
reflection, PE62704H, WU09
Abstract: In conjunction with the DNA barium releases, Avefria I and II,(*note past tense not future) an
experiment was (past tense again)undertaken to determine if radio communication was possible
off the base of a striated plasma created by these barium releases. A
transmitting station was set up to broadcast a steady signal at two HF
frequencies toward the base of the barium striations (contrails containing the chemical compound barium = chemtrail)and two receiving
stations listened for signal returns on the two frequencies. (The chosen
geometry prevented reflections off the sides of the barium cloud from
affecting the experiment). One station heard (they have results they did this)substantial returns while the
other heard nothing. Data from the first station provide an estimate of the
reflection cross sections for the base of the striated barium cloud. The
negative result from the second station arises partly from limited
sensitivity of equipment but the upper limit on cross section was less than
that seen from the first station. This suggests a directional character for
the signal reflected from the base of the cloud.
Limitation Code: APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE
Source Code: 406548
Hi phasma,
Basically a contrail stops when the added water from the exhaust is no longer able to saturate the air.
Starting and stopping contrails can be compared with patches of cloudson a sunny day, they are a nice indication of the variety of the athmosphere.
phasma, could you perhaps show how any of that relates to what people describe as “chemtrails”? Could YOU show a photo of this spraying going on?
Looking at page 20 of your link, Table 7 shows a range of barium in the air from 0.59 to 4.34 ng/m3 (nanograms per cubic meter). Can you explain exactly what this indicates?
Hi Uncinus - yes i have many video`s of spraying taking place! I have yet to identify a good place to post these though - any suggestions? I am not a conspiracy nut and yes i have better things to do but i believe this to be happening now and i am worried for my kids future. I am a scientist, i dont follow theories blindly - i have researched this thoughoughly and i find thinghs just don`t add up.
You do not seem to grasp the simplicity of what i am saying. You argue that the trails we see in the sky are nothing more than water vapour / ice which of course may contain minute amounts of jet fuel contamianants and nothing more. I am saying that there is proof (supplied above and i have much much more all from declassified military / government documents) that they do in some cases add certain chemicals the above or to otherwise generated sprays (see patent above) which would make them not mere con (densation) trails but chem (ical laden) trails (chemtrails) by the very definition these are not ordinary contrails!
Barium is a heavy metal that exsists in nature in many bound (compound) forms such as barium carbonate or Barium phosphate) These compounds are found in air at very low levels in picograms or femtograms per cubic meter (thats 0.000000000000 or 0.000000000000000g dispersed per cubic meter of air).Barium oxide should not exsist in the natural environment - it is formed by reacting pure reactive barium with oxygen in the absence of other more reactive compounds that are found in the places where Barium is usually found (mostly concentrated around certain mines or industrial sites).
The presence of such high quantities of barium which is present in air in several locations which are not near a mine shaft or near an industrial complex would mean that the barium in these areas has been put there by some other means. The patents listed above mention several experiments which if you research them and read them will show that there has been several long running experiments by the military which aimed to determine wether or not heavy metals such as barium oxide could function as an ariel antenna which would mean that they could maintain communications in areas such a war zones where it might not be possible to set up a sigint post. They found that they actually could bounce signals off this layer and also that it had the second useful effect of knocking out the signals of nearby satelittes which could not penetrate the barium clouds and would have their signal bounced back up into space. The longevity of this barium striation layer was anything from 3 to 6 hours after one spraying - they deemed this a useful length of time. The Barium the disprsed into a “cirrus cloud like” formation that was almost undetectable. The Barium then slowly sinks earthward and settles over a wide area.
These operations have been tried with numerous other metals and chemicals but they have found barium oxide to be the most useful.
http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/BA/barium_oxide.html or http://www.espimetals.com/msds’s/bariumoxide.pdf everything you need to know about barium oxide! here is the important stuff:
V HEALTH HAZARD INFORMATION
Effects of Exposure:
May be fatal if sw allowed. M ay cause eye, skin, nose and thro at irritation. Con tact with eyes and mucous membranes will
cause serious discomfort. Poison!
or. . .
Toxicology
Ingestion is harmful, and chronic exposure may lead to damage of CNS, spleen, liver, kindey or bone marrow. Harmful if inhaled. Contact with skin or eyes may lead to severe irritation or burns. Respiratory irritant. Typical TLV/TWA 0.5 mg m-3.
Toxicity data
(The meaning of any abbreviations which appear in this section is given here.)
SCU-MUS LD50 50 mg kg-1″ this LD50 50mg-kg means that this amount of barium oxide is required to kill 50% of test animals in a laboratory. This may seem high if we are talking about nanograms per cubic meter but, scarily barium oxide bioaccumulates (that means it can accumualte in certain target organs in your body until it reaches high enough doses to begin making you ill. . .
from: http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Barium_oxide-9923002
. . . Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage. Repeated exposure of the
eyes to a low level of dust can produce eye irritation. Repeated skin exposure can produce local skin destruction,
or dermatitis. Repeated inhalation of dust can produce varying degree of respiratory irritation or lung damage.
Repeated exposure to a highly toxic material may produce general deterioration of health by an accumulation in
one or many human organs. Repeated or prolonged inhalation of dust may lead to chronic respiratory irritation. . . .
Chronic Effects on Humans: Causes damage to the following organs: lungs, mucous membranes.
Other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Extremely hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion.
Very hazardous in case of skin contact (corrosive), .
Hazardous in case of eye contact (corrosive), of inhalation (lung corrosive).
Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals: Not available
Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans: Excreted in maternal milk in animal. Passes through the placental barrier in human . . . .
That means if this stuff is bought down in the rain that it will make its way into your water supply (its also all over your fruit and veg don`t bother buying organic) it will accumulate in your body - if you are female and pregnant then the barium you inhale / ingest will pass through the placenta into your baby where it will also start to accumulate.
The number of diseases classified as flu like but without any sign of an infectious agent has sky rocketed. Long term exposure to Barium oxide causes similar symptoms.
I would urge anyone who still doubts this to go ahead and undertake their own measurements. Get a sterile container (from a pharmacist) cover the top with clean fine netting to stop any dust blowing in and collect rainwater. Then send this off to be tested. I myself am doing so at the moment. When i have enough samples to make a statistically accurate conclusion (Im a scientist i work on evidence) then i will post it here.
Also i`m sure you guys have seen it but in case you think the government wouldn`t do something like this to its adoring public:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4398507,00.html
i particularly like the last line. . .
quote” Asked whether such tests are still being carried out, she said: ‘It is not our policy to discuss ongoing research.’ ONGOING PEOPLE!!!
Youtube works well. You can upload high definition videos now.
Note the OSHA safe exposure limits for soluble barium compounds are 0.5 mg/m3, or 500,000,000 picograms per cubic meter. See:
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts24.html
And “The air that most people breathe contains about 0.0015 parts of barium per billion parts of air (ppb).” Since a cubic meter of air weighs about 1.2kg, then 1200/1000000000*0.0015 = 1.8 nanograms, (or 1,800 picograms, 1,800,000 femtograms). That’s 0.0018 mg/m3.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/phs24.html
I think it’s very important to get your units right. When you say something is normally found in femtograms, and it’s actually 2 million femtograms, then that’s giving rather the wrong impression.
Have high quantities ever been found? Where, and how much? And which compound of barium were they?
Can you give verifiable quotes to demonstrate what you are claiming? Particularly: “The longevity of this barium striation layer was anything from 3 to 6 hours after one spraying - they deemed this a useful length of time. The Barium then dispersed into a “cirrus cloud like” formation that was almost undetectable. ”
Evidence?
Could you give more detail on your methodology? How fine is the netting? How long do you leave the container out? Is there a control sample? Do you correlate this with observed trails?
Although I don’t believe in chemtrails just as much as I don’t believe in the Easter Bunny, it does make me happy that people are smart enough to think like this and make such assumptions.
When I heard about chemtrails I accepted the possibility that it could be true and I researched for a long time (believe me) to find that it is indeed false. But some people (lots of people that are posting here for example) will hear something like this and automaticly believe it. Not because chemtrails being sprayed is a fact but because they need it to be a fact for several personal reasons I believe. People need things like chemtrails to hold themselves up because they need fear and hate and deceit and lies and confusion to deal with otherwise they have nothing else to do, you dig? They need chemtrails to hold themselves up.
Really though get real people. Do you honostly believe that OUR government is capable of pulling something so top secret like this off world wide every single day without much more people talking? People completely underestimate our government sometimes…
I thought Cameron was going to say that our government is not smart enough to pull off a conspiracy, and then finish with….
“People completely OVERestimate our government sometimes…”
Since they flunk at everything else they meddle with, how could they suddenly succeed at a very well orchestrated cover-up?
But big food and drug companies are another story altogether…
Easter Sunday today.
Multiple planes emitting mutiple chemtrails..so many in fact, that the skies by now are white, foggy nasty white.
Took pictures of 2 of the planes that were doing it.
Maybe there are no pilots in those planes, what pilot would poison his own kids , or family?
it seems after heavy spraying my child tends to get a fever and trouble breathing. when weather is bad such as raining and heavy winds they do not spray. during these times my child does not have these ailments. usually 2-3 days after heavy spraying my child will show signs of fever. i hope and pray for windy days and rain.
Does it not seem more likely that you child’s ailments are related to the weather? When it’s raining, the child is fine? Maybe it has allergies?
Keep a journal of your observations, every day recording the weather, the trails, and your child health. Then draw a graph - that will make any correlation clearer.
i have been keeping a record for many years. and yes at times he can catch a cold without heavy spraying, but when they are doing heavy spraying i most always see a negative reaction. after heavy spraying even i can feel it.
Could you post your record?
lowflyer,
your observations are the same as mine, even my dogs wheeze after spraying.
why????
So other people can check your conclusions.
it looks to me as if there is only one person posting here and that would be uncinus….. it makes me wonder if this is a uncinus blog. it just gives me an idea of the ‘people’ who are here. also to me it looks as if uncinus has already made his conclusions about chemtrails or contrails. now just so we know my child is not an ‘it’ as uncinus has stated in his statement ‘maybe it has allergies?’ or was this a question???? the next thing is that my child does not have any allergies, i know uncinus wants me to post prove that my child does not have allergies. i have had my child and myself tested for allergies and both of us have come up clean, meaning we have no allergies. (sorry i am not going to post the doctors report) i do check pollen counts (it is on the weather channel no need to post it here) to see when pollen will become a factor. so in the middle of winter we can rule out pollen as being the cause of illness. i can see rain as doing 2 things… first it stops the planes from spraying and it cleans the air of heavy metals and bacteria. posting my conclusions in this blog would not prove anything to anyone and serve no purpose. i am not trying to change anyone’s mind to think chemtrails are real or not.
Oh, there are people other than Uncinus posting. The thing is, it’s difficult for me to get passionate over something as simple as contrails. That’s why it’s refreshing to see Uncinus respond to chemtrail believers posts with such civility and intelligence. Uncinus answers the posts so promptly and with such clarity that any other replies would be redundant.
Interesting, how do you know that there are no contrails/”chemtrails” in the sky when it’s raining? Aren’t there clouds obscuring your ability to see into/above them?
Also, if rain “cleans the air of heavy metals and bacteria”, wouldn’t that defeat the purpose of “spraying” since it has been noted by many a chemtrail enthusiast that chemtrails turn into chemclouds which is usually then followed by rain?
How do you know these trails and the persisting white fog had chemicals in them? And by chemicals, I don’t mean normal jet exhaust, I mean the chemicals that chemtrailers say are used.
Is it possible that these multiple “chemtrails” were simply multiple (persisting) contriails? How can you tell the difference between contrails and chemtrails?
Contrails don’t consistently come in from the West, they are everywhere and they vanish after a few minutes.
The ones I am seeing though, come in from the West, in all shapes and patterns, including Xes and circles, then they spread out and dim the sun, sometimes, no sunshine at all, because they cover it.
I saw a black one today, spanning the whole spectrum as far as the eye could see. Today again it’s no better, we are ” fogged” in.
What do you mean they “come in from the West”? That the plane came from the West, or that the contrails moved from the west.
Where do you live? You should check out the flights with flightaware - most places have planes flying over them from many different directions.
Contrails do spread out if the weather is right. They always have. See:
http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/
All the ” contrails ” came in from the West, all at once.. and started coming til now.. and still more coming. No end in sight.
Near Dana Point, CA, I am.
Shill, it’s apparent that you have not taken one step towards researching any of the phenomena you’ve observed. Contrails can form circles (fighter jets or airliners circling in a holding pattern waiting to land at an airport), contrails can form X’s and grids (flights go north/south/east/west over the whole country), contrails can spread out and dim the sun (see Ucinus’ link), contrails can both cast shadows and be their own shadow.
I don’t follow on the “come in from the West” statement either, perhaps you could elaborate on that a bit more?
There are plenty of explainations for everything you’ve seen right here on this site. So, please for your own sanity, do some basic research on contrail behavior and sources.
Shill,
Also could you please answer the question I asked you a few posts up? Thanks
it’s kind of interesting how everyone aposing chemtrails and are supporting this site (nice site btw lol ) all have the same perfect punctuality/grammer. did you all take the same english courses in highschool or are you all the same person posting under different handles? HMMMMMmm lol
Is it any different to how those who support chemtrails struggle to spell or use capital letters?
Are they all the same person, or just all thick?
I am amazed by you, Uncinus, for a patience and civility I will never possess.
How you deal with people who think the fuel is on fire while it’s in the fuel tank, that vapour coalescing and “dripping” is somehow horrifying and sinister (what do they think when they ponder rain?), or espouse any of the various assumptions about weather and altitude written here is beyond my grasp. Your approach will enlighten people to seek plausible explanations when they find black soot on their feet rather than simplistic but wholly fanciful correlations to airplanes at FL360! But then again, my buddy bought a foam pillow and woke up with the flu. Guess what he now thinks is the cause of his influenza?
Seriously, thank you. You are doing a huge service in return for which you get crap from people who literally cannot detect the difference between a rational thought and a fallacy of logic. For this, you are my new hero.
Keep the blue side up!
-mm, ASEL
Uncinus,
Brother, I don’t know how you do it. Time after time reiterating the same facts over and over again to debunk some conspiracy theorists who’s only evidence is “what they see” or “my friend had a hair sample taken”.
My favorites are the people who had something negatively effect one individual that should have effected thousands. Or the guy who says that they’re are more “chemtrails” now than in the 1950’s. Really, that’s surprising that you would see more air traffic now than in the ’50’s.
I too am glad that I found this site. Conspiracies in general are a pet peeve of mine. And, today a facebook “friend” who lives in Portland typed that a rainbow around the sun without precipitation was evidence of “chemtrails”. Thanks for giving me something to copy and paste.
I hope my spelling and grammar was a little off in some places so as not to fuel more conspiracies.
Bob…
Made me laugh out loud.
Uncinus,
I just recently got in on this contrail (I mean) “Chem”trail subject.. I find it interesting in theory, and it can be quite humorous at times. I too have watched many youtube videos and visited many sites to see what the conspiracy people are talking about. The simple truth is, Contrails are Contrails.. YES there are many chemicals in Contrails all produced in engine exhaust. but that’s basically it.
In order to produce a good conspiracy theory, you need a Plot, Material and Application. and they ALL have to work together or at least support each other. Most conspiracy theorists only concern themselves with the plot and sling coincidental evidence to support. Chemtrail conspiracy theorists are different, They concern themselves with the Application, assume the Material and then, well, just Make Up a plot. BTW, The NWO theory makes for interesting reading but is not something to use as a foundation for another theory.
So, in order to become acquainted with the Plot, Material and Application.. you need to play Devil’s Advocate. “How Would I Do It?” should be the first question you have when trying to discover a conspiracy.
Something I have not seen any of the theorists do.. because THERE is where the contrail/chemtrail argument ends. (might actually be WHY they don’t talk about it) Pathogens, Bacteria, Viri ect DIE very quickly in either extreme cold, low air pressure, daytime heat or almost always in direct sunlight. In proper conditions like shade, damp, wet or advantageous liquid environments they flourish.
So, I am Dr. Evil and I’m going to place the order to the Acme Chemical Company for a chemical that meets the Chemtrail Theorists needs.
I would like to order a few thousand gallons of a bioagent which:
–will be sprayed from 30,000+ feet where the temperature is lower than -50F
–it must survive a daylight drop which could take hours given the weight of the mist
–it must multiply in this environment to cover a large footprint (cirrus)
–it must arrive on the ground in such a microscopic, odorless form that can’t be seen or recognized
–it must also survive contact with all pollutants and pollens in the air
–survive the massive temperature change to from -50F to +70F
–Yes it must be invincible!!
–It can only offer effects to a certain race, gender or religion, but I won’t tell you which one
–survive after ingestion in the human body for an indefinite period of time
–The agent can in and when people eat my chemically tainted New World Order candy bar making the mixture lethal.
–if it is discovered, it must look sometimes like a spiderweb, cotton or Poplar tree pollen, change its mollecular density or just disappear all together.
Are you serious? I would probably be shot by Acme’s secretary for even assuming such a thing could be created. Theorists, Show me a potent Super-Goo that is proven to do all that, and I might listen a little closer. (please not the word Proven)
The truth is.. Why would I BOTHER? not, why wouldn’t I do it but if I were Dr. Evil in this plot, but Why would I bother making it visible? there are hundreds of private planes and lower flying military aircraft to dispense my deadly brew, would cost less fuel, greater on-target success, and less visible because the stuff wont freeze.. not to mention the hundreds more effective ways to spread my brew without being airborne at all…
How many of these conspiracy theorists have actually taken samples of contrail.. I mean Chemtrails.. no I don’t mean samples of something you found on the ground, I mean get a plane and grab some of that contrail.. Call Prince Yes Prince, I’m sure he.. Might have the money to fund the trip. Show me THAT Top Secret ‘Purple Rain’ and I will listen (but only a little)
Oh, and I also have a “friend who’s a lawyer” and “a friend at NASA” as well as a few thousand brothers and sisters in the military who get insulted by conspiracy theorists who use them as pawns in someone else’s plot.
I like the guy who only thought planes flew over his house to “spray” him, bit selfish aint it? here’s another link, http://www.flightaware.com there are a few hundred planes in the air at any given time of the day.. just a thought. And how is it that the spray planes only spray on certain days? but not cloudless hot days, pilots must enjoy the BBQ weather days off.
Drive On Uncinus.
Way to go, BlackIrishToung!
Brilliant!
Oh, and one more thing that ALL conspiracy theoristshave in common. This is in ref to the first post in this comment series… Conspiracy Theorists all want the TRUTH revealed.
Truth is indesputable, unwaivering reality. However given the reality of what a Theory is, the best you could ever hope to get is a Concept, not TRUTH.
Claiming that the “Truth must be revealed” is really someone saying “I believe something and I wont stop protesting, e-mailing, bothering, interrupting, spamming, BIG TEXTING, make-an-ass-out-of-myself.. ing you untill you tell me I’m RIGHT”
Contacting the Air Force or the FBI for an answer if futile. The FBI is the “Federal Bureau of Investigation” not the “Federal Bureau of Gonna answer your call and give you a wrong answer to something somebody made up and your dumbass bought it”
Make your theories about the search for Truth (note the word ’search’) but as with any search for an answer, don’t get all huffy and upset when the TRUTH turns out to differ from what you originally thought.
I would LOVE to watch a conspiracy theory be cracked open, and peoples persistance justified, but that don’t mean its the case every time. ya’know?
If I called NASA because I was CERTIAN that the Space Shuttle’s Orange ET was really a bomb.. I call ‘em and they say “No it isn’t” It don’t mean they are BS’n me to hide the truth.. nope.. it means I was WRONG.. think about that..
I used to work on airplanes, there are a lot of mysterious maintenance things that mechanics don’t even understand, and are not supposed to interfere with.
Chemtrails and contrails look the same, and always have, that is why this debunking site works so well, and is so believable. However most major airline’s contrails are laced with chemicals to cause fear in people. It is not just a US military conspiracy, but a worldwide conspiracy.
I can’t safely post proof right now, but none of it matters, because things are going to be changing world wide very soon, (next couple months) and Them, They, the conspirators, will find that their efforts were a waist of time. As these debunking sites, that all are so similar in layout, were too a waist of time.
Here is something interesting to read whether or not you believe the account:
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/chemspewermechanics17apr05.shtml
Those of you who are scared reading about these, don’t worry about whether or not chemtrails are contrails or are real or not. It doesn’t matter.
Like I said things are going to change very soon, and in a very positive way.
Namaste To all.
Just thought I’d leave a comment. Funny to see all the people who say, “You have to see it for yourself to believe it.” or “Come to my house, they’re everywhere.” Well, your own word doesn’t amount to anything without visual evidence we all can look at.
On a side note, all the people that believe in the chemtrail conspiracy (not saying you’re wrong) have really bad grammar. Especially that one guy who does HALO jumping and has a “level 5 top secret military clearance”.
Not saying I’m any better, but just wanted to point that out.
Cheers.
You’re right, you can’t post proof, that’s why it’s so frustrating to watch people screaming “Don’t believe the science on this site, believe your eyes…LOOK UP LOOK UP! The sky is falling!”.
I wouldn’t say ALL, but there does seem to be a pattern emerging.
Thank you for the great read. This past 30 minutes has been an excellent learning experience on the art of spin and disinformation.
One can identify the use of the following as excellent tactical approaches, should mis- or disinformation be desirous:
- A calm, cool exterior and polite manner no matter what (like Kissinger)
- Responding to presented evidence with a dismissive, semi-related counter-question
- Putting the obvious in plain view and repeatedly stating it is something other than the obvious (like Derren Brown, youtube it)
- Selectively responding to evidence claims or comments based upon ability to refute or, counter-claim or spin on a micro-basis
- When other methods fail, moving toward an “one of thooose people” or condescending/stereotyping position (note to students: Uncinus does not display this.)
From http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL1760049120080617:
The above is what the mainstream media is telling us about sky operations. Riiight, like we are to believe their sole intention for massive campaigns to dump chemicals such as “silver oxide” and “pulverized cement” in the air is to create happy weather for the people. (Let alone suspending our belief that Reuters is giving us the full chemical lineup.)
Some other interersting information, from http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience:
Ooohhhkay. Always the “oh, it’s coz we’re protecting you against the baddies” thing.
But, since these ancient times of 30 years ago we are all pleased to know that governments of leading countries around the world like the United Kingdom have now successfully been rehabilitated. The world’s elite have now changed their ways after learning from these errant policies of yesteryear, from the MK-ULTRA campaign, from agent orange and depleted uranium proliferation, from the USS Liberty attack & attempted cover-up, from 9/11 (ohhp, sorry I wasn’t allowed to mention that one!)…
I could go on, and I could subsequently respond to some tactful spin posited by the OP or similar, but I will likely choose not to. My feeling is that, though Uncinus et al are free to change their minds and open their hearts anytime they want to, this forum is likely not in the interest of truth. The pursuit of truth is not for everyone at all times.
Any reasonable human being, with an ability for logic and a heart for truth, could do their own research and independently come to the conclusion that as far as chemtrails are concerned, there is something going on that is not for our best interests.
The burden of proof is not on those that would speak truth. It stands up and is made known over time.
Josh,
I’d like to respond to evidence, or claims, but you don’t actually seem to be making any. The evidence you give is of cloud seeding and old germ warfare tests, which nobody denies. The only claim you make is the rather vague “there is something going on that is not for our best interests“, and you don’t seem to provide any linking of this to your evidence other than “I think the government must be up to no good”.
Could you be more specific in what you think is going on, regarding contrails and “chemtrails”, and what the evidence is?
Josh:
As has the past minute been a “no-learning-at-all” experience about total misinformation.
I do not believe so, for the following reason. Fifty years have elapsed since those times, when they released i) a marker (ZCS, which, sadly, was discovered to be a carcinogen) ii) a sterilized (killed!) strain of a commonplace bacterium, and iii) water, in order to have some basis for their defense response plans in the event of biological attack.
The people who planned and executed this are no longer alive. Nor is the Soviet Union. Nor is the Cold War. So, why is ther “something going on that is not for our best interests”?
If you argue thus, then you mustn’t forget that the first known instigators of bacterial warfare were the British, with their gift of a plague blanket to an Indian Chief. And the reduction of the Native American population from at least twenty million (possibly sixty!) to five hundred thousand within a hundred years must count as the first practical (and on-going) instance of virtual genocide.
So we practise genocide as we speak, do we? Everyone?
Those that handle “truth” know the opposite to be the case, and this person in particular is quite sure that you wouldn’t know “truth” if it slapped you in your face.
Is that enough “spin and disinformation” for you?
Indeed…logic and truth…
…and thus when you use an examples of A) cloud seeding and B) Germ warfare tests…neither of which involve trails from planes that persist and spread in the troposphere… It seems illogical to insinuate that those events are somehow “proof” that the trails behind airplanes that persist and spread are not- as science has told us for over 40 years- simply persistent contrails but instead part of a global, clandestine, “spraying” operation of unknown origin and intent.
Don’t you agree?
Typical cloud seeding as practiced in this country and around the world does not take place in the troposphere…does not induce cirrus formation- and does not result in persistent contrails…nor does it take place from the exhaust of jets….and it DOES use silver iodide.
See here for examples:
Examples of typical cloud seeding:
http://www.nawcinc.com/wmfaq.html
http://www.weathermod.com/
equipment used:
http://www.nawcinc.com/photos.html
http://www.iceflares.com
What a crock! I love watching people attempt to protect the secrets and corporate agendas. I can’t even get through all of Uncinus’s comments without laughing.
The temperature in the atmosphere determines whether contrails evaporate quickly or not, correct? Ok, then why do these “contrails” seem to defy gravity for 8 hours or so, even in the summer? Do they just stay in the upper atmosphere where it’s cold and they keep their forms all day? If that’s the case, then why are we putting satellites in sapce. why not just make them out of light weight aluminum and let them also defy gravity in the stratosphere like these ‘contrails’? Think about all that fuel cost money we’d save.
U can’t defend the corporation lies forever Uncinus, eventually the truth u are so afraid of will slap u and your whole family in the face when it’s too late. Cowards defend popular beliefs and speech, it takes real courage to go against popularity and speak freely. I highly doubt all of us are delusional or mis-informed about what a real cloud is and what water vapor is. Ask the Morgellons sufferers what they believe in. Then go ask the crops what they think is in our skies, and the nutrient deficient soil.
They do stay in the upper atmosphere where it is cold, but they generally tend to spread out. After eight hours they have either dissipated fully, or merged into a layer of cirrostratus.
Why do you think they would fall to the ground? Why would any cloud fall to the ground? Would you expect this to fall to the ground?
And here it is, the REAL reason that chemtrail theorists feel so strongly about their beliefs. If they didn’t believe in chemtrails, they would just be one of the sheeple wandering aimlessly through life, they wouldn’t feel that special tingle when they look up in the sky and see a persisting contrail.
News flash! Believing in chemtrails doesn’t make a person a unique snowflake, it only serves to show just how ignorant some people can be when faced with a plethora of meterological facts and scientific studies. This desire to be ‘different’ seems to cloud the thinking enough to overlook the most obvious scientific explanations.
Chemtrailers believe that persistent contrails ARE chemtrails, they take that as fact when no chemtrail theorist has EVER presented solid evidence proving that contrails are chemtrails. Doesn’t that sound just a little odd?
JBanger, will you be the first person to post solid evidence for chemtrails?
I’m intrigued as to what you think is in these trails that enable them to defy gravity?
I’m not sure I follow your logic. Although that’s hardly surprising, tbh.
Jbanger:
“attempt to protect the secrets and corporate agendas” - attempt to counter the lies and slanders of the ignorant?
“The temperature in the atmosphere determines whether contrails evaporate quickly or not, correct?” - INCORRECT. The ambient water vapor pressure controls the sublimation (in this case). Try making a cup of hot tea near the top of Mt. Everest.
“why do these “contrails” seem to defy gravity for 8 hours or so” - if they fall at 0.1m/sec, then in eight hours they will have fallen about 3Km, and they will STILL be in the stratosphere.
“even in the summer?” - Summer or winter, it’s always around -40 or colder at cruise altitude.
“Do they just stay in the upper atmosphere where it’s cold and they keep their forms all day?” - If you REALLY watch them carefully, you will see they NEVER “keep their form”. They expand widthwise due to wave vortex energy or layer boundary shear, and/or downwards due to ice accretion in supersaturated conditions. A single trail has been known to expand to 10Km wide by 2Km deep.
“U can’t defend the corporation lies” - Ignorant people are often slanderous.
“Cowards defend popular beliefs and speech” - Cowards are people who, afraid of their insignificance in the wider world, will clutch at the straws of conspiracy theories, to bolster their self-image, their ignorance preventing them from seeing the lack of substance in their claims.
“It takes real courage to go against popularity and speak freely” - It takes more courage to learn science properly at school, when the topic is difficult to understand in the first place, and the application of effort is exhausting, and your classmates might consider you to be a nerd. But you haven’t risked that, have you?
“I highly doubt all of us are delusional or mis-informed about what a real cloud is and what water vapor is.” - I believe the majority of us are NOT. Some of us KNOW what these things are, and the rest understand that they don’t know, but expect that the experts do know, and take their word for it. You are outside these camps, in some sort of “underworld”.
“Ask the Morgellons sufferers what they believe in.” - Morgellons has a 300-year-old history. Strange…
“Then go ask the crops what they think is in our skies, and the nutrient deficient soil.” - NO. We use analytical equipment!
Can someone please tell me what I am seeing in the skies? I don’t care if you call it “contrails”, “chemtrails”, or “your mama”. These emissions from planes do not look to me like the behavior of ice/water. They take on chemical reflections and weep, but not like a cloud when it is raining where it streaks. This material spreads out like it has a structure independent of the atmospheric conditions (meaning it doesn’t seem to melt away) but seem to have a solid nature to it, as it spreads both out and up and down.
What chemicals are in the emissions of the planes? If it was massive amounts of moisture alone, then you would expect it to dissolve as it spreads. Whatever is being released from planes is creating massive pollution! (it is not pure, flitered spring water and completely benign!) Whataver you call this, “normal” or “conspiracy”, all of us who have to breathe this air and live in this atmosphere, deserve to know!
You know, purewater, it’s actually very, very, easy to find out what chemicals are in the emissions of planes. It’s also very easy to find out why contrails sometimes behave in the way you describe. Just look it up. Here’s a good place to start:
http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipcc_sr/?src=/climate/ipcc/aviation/088.htm
It’s plain to see by your statements above that you are not a meteorologist, and if you are, you’re a poor one. What you’re describing is exactly how persisting contrails look, and have looked for decades. The main difference between then and now is the internet…and the spread of these conspiracy theories. “LOOK UP!” Yes, look up indeed, because most of the chemtrailers have never really paid attention to the sky before the internet sensation of chemtrail theories.
My god read a meteorology book and get some education. You’ll soon realize that the sky isn’t falling and you can do something more important, like actually enjoy your day without wearing a breathing apparatus.
Well, I’m convinced. That was all I needed to hear, if corporate mainstream doctors, scientists, and magazines said everything is just dandy, then it must be. They would never lie for money or political favors, that doesn’t exist. In fact, I don’t exist, neither do any of you, and the sky is a figment of our imaginations. The gov’t has never lied to get a war started, they’ve never lied to get what they wanted, and they care what Bob down at the hardware store thinks about going to war with Iran.
Don’t call them chamtrails, they are Nutrition trails! The fact that I can’t see the sun on a cloudy day anymore is normal, even when the clouds aren’t producing rain and aren’t that dark, just thick. Thick enough to block the light of that giant star 2 planets away from us. I also do not remember what skies looked like before I had the internet, soon as I saw “chemtrails” I just decided to believe in them, because it’s fun to be different and shunned by everyone for talking about them, and/or 9/11. We can’t and shouldn’t talk about these things, because that makes us terrorist threats. I never question anything wealthy corporations claim or promise, because they’ve never lied, neither have pharmaceutical companies. It’s all for our benefit, there’s nothing going on at all folks. Go back to sleep and play Xbox and look at porn and work 80hrs a week to be poor, everything is fine because “experts” who are affiliated with corporations and governments said so.
Hey, you have fun with that. You can’t help but to defend the logical I understand, linear thinking will solve the problems of the world I’m sure. Where’s our water engines and free energy that was invented decades ago? That must be a conspiracy theory too, the gov’t isn’t hoarding any technology, they LOVE to share that stuff with us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIYKU8WfOAA
Some of these are somewhat normal activity, others are obvious human influence.
Which ones do you think are due to human influence? They all look like natural (but rare) cloud formations. They all have names.
Nobody is saying that people in power never lie. Nor is anyone saying that corporations do not engage in shady practices from time to time.
But really? ALL of the science books? EVERY paper on contrails? Even things written back in 1972? Or 1944? Or 1921? ALL of it?
Sure, think for yourself, that’s great. But really, are you suggesting that all the science books in all the libraries in the world have been retroactively modified?
What I believe, as do many critical thinkers out there, is that you and I for the most part only know what they let us know. Anything else that is leaked out or from whistle blowers is discredited, and the words “conspiracy theory” are immediately attached to the information and any questioning going on.
- 17 arabs with boxcutters “conspiring”, hijacked 4 planes successfully on 9/11, hit 3 of their 4 perspective targets, made NORAD stand down, got past Pentagon auto missile air defenses with an hour plus forewarning, and brought America to it’s knees in fear of terrorism. That’s the Gov’t official story. You know what THAT is called? ….”A CONSPIRACY THEORY.” How is that any more ridiculous sounding than a small group of Bilderberg elites “conspiring” to start a conflict and blame middle eastern terrorists to start a war for oil and profit? That’s how we got into Vietnam. I don’t know about anyone else, but I tend to not believe admitted liars, nevermind the ones who are caught and continue lying to cover up the previous lies… they admitted the Gulf of Tonkin event that led us into Vietnam was a false flag lie.
History and the books that tell it are written by the winners. It’s usually their perception and version of events too. What is happening right now in our skies is not normal cloud or weather activity. Whether it’s caused by something happening and space, from planes spraying, the sun, whatever…. the point is something is not normal and people are noticing and asking ?s about it, as they are with 9/11. The books aren’t being modified retroactively, they were written with the intention of only being about 4% truthful. Once the typical human being learns brand new information, the brain is designed to defend that information when contested because that information has formed a belief system in the brain. Our brains naturally want to defend what we have always believed in, ask galileo and Socrates, and JESUS. No one wants to believe or even hear anything that goes against their beliefs or what they think they know. The more you learn and “educate yourself”, not sit in a class and get spoon fed what they want to feed u, then you’ll realise the more you know, the more you really don’t know.
http://www.bariumblues.com/
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/
http://www.chemtrails911.com/
http://www.rense.com/politics6/chemdatapage.html
and for those who want to research a little bit of everything….
http://www.thebigagenda.com
Yet you consistently fail to produce any evidence for this, and claim that all the considerable evidence to the contrary is fabricated.
Critical thinking is great. But it means that you ideas need to be justified by evidence, and not prejudiced by beliefs.
Consider the book “Cloud Studies”, by Arthur Clayden, written in 1905, before the advent of powered flight. It contains many photographs of unusual cloud structures that resemble those that some today say are man-made. I have a copy of this book.
Does this not give you pause for thought? Does looking at this 104 year-old book not contribute to your dictum of “educate yourself”? Or is every written word, every photo, suspect? Do you automatically throw out everything that does not correspond with your beliefs?
See there’s an example. You give a link to BariumBlues.com, which on the home page has a photo of ripple clouds, exactly the same as from the 1905 photos, and claims this is “Electromagnetic Anomalies”
So, why should we take heed of these sites when they make such simple mistakes and do not correct them?
Nikola Tesla (10 July 1856 – 7 January 1943)
I shouldn’t need to post information about the things he discovered, or stole, during his lifetime. The gov’t admittedly confiscated his equipment and have the patents on his work. He did many experiments back then, I do not know if those old cloud photos, which seemed to be very rare back then, are from Tesla or some other natural phenomenon that caused those patterns in the clouds. make no mistake though that human kind had technology at that time period no one would’ve imagined. The gov’t tests their equipment for many years before the public is told about it. Research Eugenics and what went on with the Nazis and our own American gov’t testing on the populations via plane spraying and various other means of dissemination ofchemicals. This was considered “legal” for many decades, legal to test on the public and NOT tell them. That is the same group of people you guys are defending now with chemtrails. Maybe they were evil back then, but now, they are all better, yes?
Why should I post anything here? Scroll up, so many have posted very good links on this page, but none seem to satisfy some of you unless it’s blatently G.Bush saying, “yes we are doing a population reduction agenda right now.” Who would come out and say such a thing? Do the wealthy elites have a severe hatred and distaste for the commoner? I’m not talking about rags to riches, I’m talking about the people that Bill Gates hopes to be a part of some day. There’s more than enough “evidence” to at least open an investigation publicly into this atmospheric manipulation and the effects barrium is having on our immune systems. 500 doctors saying the levels of barrium in the water and air are bad and 2 doctors from the Bush administration and a Popular Mechanics bs articles saying it’s fine, doesn’t convince anybody except the willing ignorant.
There’s plenty to research on your own online, HAARP, Monsanto, Bilderberg, Eugenics, Gulf of Tonkin, Tesla, etc.
I will post 1 link that I find to be sickening because this is the prime example of what is wrong in this world right now. Seeing how this has been invented a long time ago and exists, and the fact that Obama, Bush, Clinton, none of them would even acknowledge this technology existing PROVES they don’t have our best interests in mind or at heart, PERIOD. Or… maybe I know about this stuff and our president doesn’t, right? Time to wake up folks, the bad guys aren’t going to tell you they’re the bad guys, they never have and never will.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdujAIsNLBY
Today is June 10, 2009 and it is 50 degrees here in NH. We have a clear sky maybe once a month, but it’s mostly cloudy to completely covered in thick dark grey clouds everyday.
The “contrails” once in the sky here, are immediately followed by a closing in of the surrounding clouds and the day of sunlight is over soon afterwards. I’m not making theories here, this is not how it’s suppose to be. It’s unusually cold and the lack of sunlight is getting very ridiculous. There’s almost permanent clouds over New England year round.
Tell me this is normal and I’m exaggerating, just so I know I’m wasting my time here.
JBanger,
And where are these 500 doctors? I’ve seen ZERO evidence that shows unusual levels of barium in the water or air. Could you link to just one that shows an actual lab test showing unusually high levels of barium in the water or air.
And it’s not just two doctors and popular mechanics that oppose this. It’s every single municipal water company in the United States. That’s literally thousands of independent tests that are made of different water supplies, every year. They all show low or normal levels or Barium. Some examples:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=municipal+water+quality+report
So if barium is being sprayed, then why is it not being detected in the water supply?
Why don’t you look at the weather records for the last 100 years and see if the current weather is unusual?
I have, the hottest day on record for here yesterday was in 2008, a 40 degree difference from this year. I have lived in New England for 35 years. I don’t drink tap water, consume fluoride, eat aspartame or high fructose corn syrup, so my memory is still intact and I remember what the sky use to look like, and what the weather patterns here are.
Local news station confirms barium in chemtrails - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okB-489l6MI
local news weatherman talking about the military spraying - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tfcXUYL04s
Just one of many independent research on chemtrail activity. Watch the whole thing before you respond if possible. - http://thebigagenda.com/channel.php?id=17&rid=45
Are the news reporters and meteorologists lying? “Military is spraying”, their words on TV and in their own documents.
Google search - chemtrails barium doctors, start with the 1st link and work your way down.
Here ya go, read till your heart is content.
http://www.healthfreedom.info/HR%202977.htm
Then you should remember that NH has a VERY variable climate, with massive changes in temperature from year to year. See:
http://nhclimateaudit.org/monthlytrends.html
He quite clearly shows barium levels of 68.8 ug/L, a normal level, below EPA limits for drinking water, and actually LESS than I would expect based on the collection methods. For full details on this test, including the retraction of the reporter, see:
http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/
He’s discussing normal chaff, which disrupts weather radar. He’s explaining why you see those images on the weather radar. Contrails do not show up on weather radar. It’s a totally different thing. Chaff is invisible to the naked eye when ejected from a plane.
I started to watch it, but immediately it began saying that contrails normally dissipate quickly. Since they start out with such an obvious falsehood, I’m not sure it’s a good source. But I’m willing to give it another chance - can you tell me the time in the video where they show test results?
I’ve read it, and responded, 2977 was written by UFO enthusiasts, see:
http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/
Now please, quid pro quo, where are these test results?
JB-
Let me get this straight….
You will disregard 40+ years of accumulated atmospheric science…peer-reviewed, testable, repeatable science that follows the Laws of Nature…from scientists from around the World…that detail exactly what you are seeing the sky….
…and yet will look to places such as ChemtrailCentral, Barium Blues, random Youtube videos et al….as sources of fact??
That is extremely problematic…
The websites you refer to are filled with fear based speculation based on ignorance…no scholarship, no fact checking, no sources, no science….nothing but pure fear mongering speculation…
Is every atmospheric scientist - everywhere in the World- a paid shill?
Can you point to one atmospheric scientist who says that the trails you see in the sky are NOT persistent contrails?? Any one??
no. You can’t. why is that?
Everything you just posted in your last post has already been discussed by Uncinus and shown to NOT be the “evidence” implied by you and so many others who are so quick to judge and yet so devoid of logic, fact and substance.
The TV report completely MISreported the results…see here for details:
http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/
The weather man was referring to chaff- which the application of does not result in persistent contrails nor does it emanate from the exhaust of jets…
So…LAST year broke records….but this year the weather is unusual?? Please explain.
There’s so many articles and reports online, here’s a good chunk - http://www.chemtrails911.com/lab_tests_and_effects.htm
I don’t care what “normal” chaff does, it’s about what is in it that should be what matters! What’s next? Normal Anthrax spraying? Normal Mercury in foods and vaccines? Come on man, stop debating just to debate and acknowledge the proof that exists, not the lack of enough proof for you.
68.8 ug/L is not a “normal level”. The EPA are the same people who told 9/11 rescue workers that the air was fit to breath right after the attack. Go research the Hell they’ve been through because of the EPA’s disinformation and the lack of gov’t assistence. If you want to believe the EPA standards after that alone, good luck with that.
You looks seem to start out with propaganda attacks on those questioning anything against the corporate interests. Some start out with the usual, “Some conspiracy theorists actually believe the government is spraying chemicals…” Come on, that’s stereotyping and influencing the reader’s impressions before looking at the information. Yet when one of us says “corporate lies”, we are slandering. Double standards.
Who cares if someone is a UFO enthusiast? Does that cancel the validity of all information? I believe in UFOs because I have seen them far and up close. They are unidentified objects, some more extravagant than others, but they do exist. If you deny their existence as well, then there’s no winning any debate about any topic with you. Bill Clinton lied to the world staring right into the camera on national TV about Lewinski, yet everything else he says and has said has been taken as the 100% truth without question. That’s just how things work in politics and corporations, they’re always right until they admit they aren’t.
I’ve posted enough evidence here which is only a fraction of what exists online, there’s also 1000s of sponsored propaganda to validate political agendas. It’s their word against our word type of argument, but who stands to gain the most from making their argument validated, the corporations or the independent researchers?
I don’t “disregard” any information presented to me, I actually read between the lines and watch from beginning to end both sides of the argument in posted documentaries and videos.
I also watch weather patterns with my own eyes, not just what is written on paper or computer document. A graph is nice, but personal experience is another thing.
I don’t want any of this to be true! I don’t want to believe what Alex Jones reports on! I don’t want to believe in chemtrails or pharmaceutical testing on the public, and I definitely don’t want to believe in the possible risks GMO foods are having on us in America. I have worked in the health care field for over a decade and I know what has been going on. I have cured myself and helped those close to me work around the corporate takeover of America as best they can. All we can do as patriots is help each other and live as happy and healthy as we can while we’re here. Willful ignorance of any evidence or even a “possible” existences of any health hazards to the eco-system, environment, or our health should NOT be immediately ridiculed, slandered, stereotyped, or prejudged, yet that is what the mainstream media does. I’m concerned for all of us and it’s why I don’t overlook anything, no matter how insignificant.
Yes it is. It’s actually a very low level. The EPA limits are 2000 ug/L
You keep claiming that high levels of barium have been found. Barium, as you know, occurs naturally in the ground. So you’d expect to find a certain level everywhere (especially in Arkansas, where they used to mine it). So given that, where are these tests showing high levels?
And if you want to set your own definition of what level of barium should be found, then could you tell me what it is (in ug/L), and how you arrived at this figure.
The average concentration of barium in USA drinking water is 28.6 ug/l (1977 data).
The EPA has set a limit of 2.0 milligrams of barium per liter of drinking water (2.0 mg/L), which is the same as 2 ppm.
If the EPA or large corporation told you smoking was healthy, would you believe them?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAExoSozc2c&feature=player_embedded
A report about EPA and air quality standards after 9/11 - http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com/2007/09/epa-911-and-bush-administration.html
EPA’s report on mercury and it’s effects on human health - http://www.epa.gov/hg/effects.htm
They inject mercury into infants via vaccinations. Does this sound sane to you? If it does, then there is no point in debating about the EPA standards and chemtrails in this forum.
I forgot to add this classic piece of propaganda about smoking - http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1pINz6H54Ys/Scr-TavvX8I/AAAAAAAABC4/tEFcM_f8hDI/s400/viceroys.png
Times change, so do the standards and laws. It’s like a slow boil. What was safe 50 years ago is now considered unsafe, and I bet the argument back then about what was safe vs unsafe is similar to what we are doing today. They keep us busy with mindless entertainments and arguing back and forth amung ourselves, while they build their infrastructure of world gov’t all around us, and nobody seems to notice or care.
The apathy in America is frightening.
2.0 mg/L is 2000 ug/L (since 1mg = 1ug)
So where are these reports of high barium levels? Sure, ignore the EPA, but just tell me what you would consider a high level, and why, and then show me reports that show this high level.
Also, I’m interested, if there were NO spraying of barium, then how much barium would you expect to find in the drinking water?
If there were no spraying, then I suppose the standard levels would be all natural levels. It’s been proven that test results can and have been doctored towards the best interests of the corporations for many decades, this is a moot argument.
I said that level was high considering the average levels as of 1977 data.
When the unnatural is added to the mix, the EPA has to step in and make what “they think” is safe standards. Though their standards seem to change by the year and decade sometimes, so that must mean they’ve revised their standards as time passes. If their standards are faulty, it can takes decades to change them because of beaurocratic legal red tape. Many have to DIE before a drug company recalls anything.
If mercury at ANY levels are proven to be toxic to us, why is it in foods, water suppiles, vaccines, and medications? Because the EPA said low levels are ok? They can just hire a few doctors to say on camera that it’s safe so everyone just accepts that as the word of God and don’t do any research of their own about it. In 10 years from now, the EPA will probably have a new set of numbers and guidelines after years of circular “no definitive evidence” bs studies released in journals.
Sunshine = good
No sunlight = bad
Contaminated water supplies = bad
mercury = bad
arsenic = bad
lead = bad
wars = bad
I see things for what they are, not what I’m told they are. If you want to believe people’s words instead of their actions, have fun with that.
Let’s stick to barium. This blog is to discuss contrails, and the chemtrail theory. I try to keep focused on that. I discuss barium because people claim there is evidence it is found in contrails.
So, a guy leaves a bowl on the hood of a pickup in his yard for a month, the water that collects in it has a barium content of 68.8 ug/L, but in 1977 the average barium in drinking water was 28.6 ug/L
Now, first of all, let me point out a contradiction in the way you approach things. On the one hand you dispute all evidence from science books, the EPA and local water companies as being part of the conspiracy. And yet you are happy to quote the EPA as a source of science to back up your claims.
How do you know what science is good and what is bad? Is everything that agrees with your theory correct, and everything that disagrees with it is “disinformation”. How do YOU know what the level of barium should be?
Now, you quote the EPA : “The average concentration of barium in USA drinking water is 28.6 ug/l”, but you failed to quote the whole thing:
http://www.epa.gov/OGWDW/dwh/t-ioc/barium.html
While it falls above the average, 66.8 is hardly an unusually high amount. ESPECIALLY if you consider the collection methods.
So, again, where are the results showing high levels of barium?
I used EPA’s information to prove a point. They themselves claim a compound is toxic to humans, yet they approve it in vaccines and food supplies. I was showing their logic from their own research and the hypocrisy of their actions, establishing the validity of the source that states these levels are “safe” for humans.
Phoenix air quality test results - http://www.rense.com/general82/chemit.htm
A & L Canadian Laboratories East - http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/soiltest.html
I’m sure u have probably seen most of these results, I have seen your name a lot going back to 2007 claiming chemtrails don’t exist. If after at least 2 years of researching this subject, u are still not convinced anything unusual is going on in our skies or with our gov’t, then u are either working for them, or u are just waiting for one particular thing out of 10,000 to convince u otherwise.
This is all most people need to know to form a real opinion of who is NOT looking out for the general populations best interests…
PUBLIC LAW 95-79 [P.L. 95-79] TITLE 50, CHAPTER 32, SECTION 1520 “CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WARFARE PROGRAM” “The use of human subjects will be allowed for the testing of chemical and biological agents by the U.S. Department of Defense, accounting to Congressional committees with respect to the experiments and studies.” “The Secretary of Defense [may] conduct tests and experiments involving the use of chemical and biological [warfare] agents on civilian populations [within the United States].” -SOURCE- Public Law 95-79, Title VIII, Sec. 808, July 30, 1977, 91 Stat. 334. In U.S. Statutes-at-Large, Vol. 91, page 334, you will find Public Law 95-79. Public Law 97-375, title II, Sec. 203(a)(1), Dec. 21, 1982, 96 Stat. 1882. In U.S. Statutes-at-Large, Vol. 96, page 1882, you will find Public Law 97-375
What disturbs me more than barium levels above or below safety standards, is the effects this “chaff”, chemtrails, whatever is ‘blocking sunlight’ is having on crops. The Canadian studies I read were similar to my own personal research I conducted with plants and fruit baring trees.
The lack of sunlight, dramatic changes in weather, and the lack of vitamin D we’re not getting from the sun are all binary parts of a possible severe crisis we could be facing very soon.
All substances are toxic at a certain level. Take common table salt - it’s highly toxic if you take more than a few spoonfuls, yet at low levels it’s actually vital to life. Some substances exist in the environment, and you can’t avoid them. Hence it’s highly important to establish safe levels.
Take Aluminum, it’s used in soda cans and cooking pans. It’s the most abundant element in the Earth’s crust. It’s in the soil, and in the air you are breathing right now. It’s impossible to avoid.
I analyzed that in some depth here:
http://contrailscience.com/chemtrail-non-science/
Bottom line: they measured it wrong - confusing concentration in air with concentration in dirt. If their figures were correct then we would all be dead.0
Shows barium levels of “0.006 milligrams/litre”, or 6 ug/L, which is far less than the last test you showed me (68.8 ug/L)
That law was repealed in 1998, see:
http://www.usvetinfo.com/dod_test.htm
That’s a valid concern. “Global Dimming” is very real. There is less energy from the sun reaching the ground. But contrails are thought to only account for a small fraction of that (although there is some debate, and much uncertainty - it’s difficult to test). The majority of global dimming is probably from particulates in the atmosphere, the human part of which which come mostly from industrial emissions and burning wood. Volcanoes (El Chichon and Pinatubo) play a huge role here. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming
How much energy/electricity does it take for the radio frequency generator to actually release the Oxygen and Hydrogen in the water? If it’s more than is produced by the flame, then it’s a big failure as far as a fuel source goes. Bad example imo.
To be accurate, no, not ALL substances are toxic at certain levels. Too much water? Too much fresh air? Too much vitamins and minerals? Too much alcohol, yes, too much oxygen or CO2, yes, those elements can be bad at higher levels.
Common table salt is toxic at higher levels because it’s iodized salt. Sea salt or Himalayan blue salt is the best salt to use, it contains more elements than the 2 or 3 elements common iodized table salt has. We NEED salt, we sweat salt, our bodies require salt, but iodized table salt is very bad for us at almost any level IMHO.
Would we seriously be “dead”, or could the effects just be illness or side effects of various types? I don’t claim to know for sure and you shouldn’t be able to be sure either, it’s speculation. I don’t claim to know if they are accurate or not, I don’t know, it’s a pretty strong claim to make though that their levels are that far off I think. To publish a report with readings so high that only death could be assumed if those figures are accurate is quite a claim I don’t care to challenge myself. Maybe you are right, maybe they aren’t wrong, I don’t know.
Ok. Stop for a moment and think about the law that was active for such a long time period. Why was it repealed? Because they just decided all of a sudden to repeal it, or because they felt they had to? Why was that even legal to begin with considering the effects it could have? Doesn’t it sound unethical somewhat? Does that even matter anymore?
Finally we agree on something. Now don’t get all “cow farts and automobiles” are causing this problem, that’s nonsense and I’m sure you know it. Global dimming has been attributed as a “side effect” of a retaliation against “Global warming” which is for the most part has been proven to be a false propaganda campaign. There is debate on what is causing it, this “chaff” they speak of seems to be a prime suspect, aluminum and magnetic particles sprayed in the air for “warfare” purposes? Are we at global war right now that we have to cover the United States in radar confusing particles over our own soil? I wasn’t aware the crisis was THAT bad with foreign nations, were you? Do we know all the side effects of this chaff? Logic states that if you have shiny aluminum and other various reflective particles in the upper atmosphere, the sunlight will logical reflect off of that layer of reflective metal and bounce back into space. They claim that is them countering the effects of global warming. What are the effects on crops, vitamin D, photosynthesis in plants, etc? Do they seem to care or are they justifying their actions in the name of national security? What are the after effects when this warfare tactic is completed, if it ever is anytime soon? Plants aren’t doing well, neither are we, the sun is too important to be “blocking out” for ANY reason I think. I think we can take care of ourselves without this radar blocking technology, if we aren’t, then we need to restructure our military defense systems.
What’s the difference between too much fresh air, and too much oxygen? Fresh air contains oxygen, too much is toxic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity
Too much water is certainly toxic. It disturbs the balance of electrolytes in the body and disrupts brain functioning, and can be fatal. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
Vitamins and minerals - where to begin? Pick a vitamin, and it has a toxic level. Start with A
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_A
The point here is that there are safe levels and dangerous levels, and a range in between. Barium can be highly toxic in sufficient quantities. However barium is found naturally in the environment, and humans will naturally excrete the barium they ingest, without any harm. Many parts of the world have vastly higher levels of barium in the water - Italy, for example, has regions with levels of around 1000 ppb. (where the reports you provide show 68.8 ppb, or lower). The EPA limit is 2000 ppb. Studies of people drinking water with barium levels 70,000 ppb found slight increased mortality aged over 65. See:
http://rais.ornl.gov/tox/profiles/barium_f_V1.shtml
So two conclusions should arise from these facts and figures:
1) The levels of barium found are well within normal levels, and no indication of spraying barium from airplanes.
2) The levels of barium found are as safe as they have always been.
Here’s another website debunking chemtrails, with additional pictures and arguments on the subject. A nice photo of WW-II bombers with heavy contrails…. so, guys, does this mean the conspiracy got started back in WW-II?
http://www.orgonelab.org/chemtrails.htm
Interesting site. It starts out quite reasonably, explaining “chemtrails”, but the degenerates into Orgone cloud-busting.
Thanks for your clear refutation of “chemtrails.” How you can be so patient with these conspiracy idiots is a mystery to me.
But be careful about your dismissal of cloudbusting and your use of the word “degenerates.” Most discussion on the Internet about cloudbusting and orgone energy is by crazies, but the orgonelab is the real deal.
Uncinus,
You keep telling people to give extra references, but all you used is an ancient book.
– “Consider the book “Cloud Studies”, by Arthur Clayden, written in 1905″ –
Do you have anything else to back up what that book claims?
Or is that your only reference?
I’m not sure what you are asking. What does “Cloud Studies” claim that you think needs extra references? There are lots of books on clouds, they all say the same thing. Just pick any of them.
By J
What types of references are you referring to when you say “Or is that your only reference?”. Do you need to see Renaissance paintings of cloud streets and ripple clouds or maybe Paleolithic cave paintings of unusual cirrus cloud formations?
Anything Uncinus presents be it images or data, the chemtrailers attempt to shoot down, which ultimately degenerates into them claiming “I know what I see”, “I trust my eyes” or some other nonsense.
Uncinus offers images from a 1905 book that counter the “chemcloud” theory, but you don’t feel that this is enough evidence? Feel free to present evidence of the “chemclouds” pictured above (on the “bariumblues” opening page) being anything different than normal cloud formations. Please, just once I hope someone will present some sort of evidence.
I was a Customs officer for 8 years. The Chem planes are real and always had a special area of the tarmac for fueling and loading up on whatever? Never gave it much thought really but ya the planes are real. Uncinus i admire how you have kept this forum going with as cool as you have been with everyones opinion. We need to keep an open mind always, conspiracy or not these things have to be talked about and I know the infinity of what a cojntrail looks like and some of is not normal jet poo or the like. Keep mup the good work Uncinus you are a great moderator and i have alot of respect for you and your opinions.
Great pictures! That 747 water bomber was frickin amazing!!!!
*Sigh*…so many idiots who have no idea what a contrail looks like, and why sometimes contrails form, and sometimes they don’t…
the amazing part is that they honestly think that something supposedly “sprayed” from a plane over 10,000 meters up is going to somehow ignore all the intervening weather and winds and drop straight onto thier precious little (but empty) heads…the damn stuff would land over a hundred kilometers away.
Joe:
You were a customs officer for eight years and took no pictures? What were you thinking?
They were fuelling up planes with poisonous materials to spray your family and you “Never gave it much thought really”?
Yah, boo, sucks.
JBanger:
I, too, agree that this is a sickening link.
It sickens me because it is TOTAL DROSS. It shows that you haven’t a clue about science, and that you don’t care that you are clueless.
In all such “systems”, the total energy output is LESS than the total energy input by a factor which includes the energy loss due to heating the apparatus up. People “working” on such devices always find a means to confuse and dissemble this plain fact - otherwise they would surely stop wasting their time. No-one has EVER “beaten” the laws of thermodynamics, which boil down to “there’s NO free lunch”. Even the (almost infinite) Universe doesn’t beat them, anywhere!
Your miserable argument goes something like this: “THEY have conspired to prevent the loss of their business by buying off/assassinating inventors”.
But the truth of it is that there are MANY places on Earth which THEY can’t reach, and if it could have happened, it would have happened.
Stop disappointing yourself (and the rest of us) and learn Science, for without such scientific understanding we’ll NEVER fix our upcoming problems.
All the Chemtrail idiots seem to miss one vital point: if you wanted to drug the population at large, there are much easier and more efficient and targeted ways of doing it than spraying it from an airliner 35,000 feet up, where the wind would take it hundreds of kilometers away before it drifited to the ground. One guy on a trail bike with a package of canisters could travel the back roads and hidden country trails dropping it in the water supply…
If it was such a “mindblowingly secret black-ops” operation, why the hell would they spray it all over the sky where everyone can see it happening?
Boy, what a bunch of nuts. Wildwelder AZ just wouldn’t believe anything anyone said except those who agreed with him. I wonder what happened that made him quit posting? It’s incredible the way conspiracy theorists pick and choose what they want to believe. Uncinus, you have the patience of Job, I really appreciate your efforts and willingness to try to show these uneducated NUTS (I am now old enough to be VERY cranky and outspoken) how little they know about the state of the world. I had some engineering and science courses in college, and was an air traffic controller and experienced pilot; everybody, believe Uncinus- he (and the rest of the science community) is not covering up anything.
Hey Wombat,
We’re not saying chemtrails is the 1 all be all, ever hear of flouride in your water? Preservatives in your food? Apartame? vaccines with mercury? Chemtrails is only one facet in a multititude of pre-designed programs that been going on for years and years. Think about it. They couldn’t come out full throttle at the beginning other wise the public would retaliate. Little increments at a time…throw the frog in a pot a cold water and turn on the fire, by the time they realise what’s happening it’s too late.
BTW- NICE JOB JBANGER
Here’s the latest report about the EPA covering up information that goes against their interests. Covering up real science.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL9FkkDhOwg&feature=player_embedded
What else have they covered up?
It’s not real science, the author (Alan Carlin) was not even a scientist, he’s an economist, and his “paper” was simply a collection of climate-change denialist talking points. EPA simply chose not to include them in an EPA report it because they are nothing new. It seems that Fox news, Michelle Malkin, etc, then spun this to further their position of supporters of the corporations that don’t want CO2 regulation.
Nothing was covered up, because nothing new was said. You can read Carlin’s comments:
http://cei.org/news-release/2009/06/25/cei-releases-global-warming-study-censored-epa
And the full emails:
http://cei.org/news-release/2009/06/25/cei-releases-global-warming-study-censored-epa
But you should also read these rebuttals:
http://mediamatters.org/research/200906300040
http://mediamatters.org/research/200906290049
There is a healthy debate over the causes of climate change. There are lots of papers published on all aspects, and from many points of view. The EPA cannot “cover up” such debate. What seems to have happened here is that one writer was pushing his personal viewpoint (which contians many thing that were actually demonstrably wrong), and his superiors did not think that it was suitable for the report.
Now, compare that to “chemtrails”. There are NO scientific papers claiming there are chemtrails. It’s a totally different situation.
And funnily enough, Alan Carlin is a strong proponent of Geoengineering for climate change:
http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/~shs/Climate%20change/Geo-politics/CarlinSustainableDevelopment.pdf
So he’d actually be in favor of “chemtrails”
Uncinus,
Of course there are no scientific papers reporting on chemtrails…Read through some docs from the gov on weather modification and you will understand why it is and has been kept secret…Because there would be a major outcry from the public. It’s no more difficult to understand than that???
Although i would have great debate with you about what you consider *scientific* papers???
Gotta go, got some tea boiling sweetened with Aspartame and flouride from the tap ;(
billybob
A scientific paper is something that other scientists have check to see if it’s more of less correct.
Come now, there’s no censorship of rense.com,abovetopsecret.com, carnicom.com, or chemtrailcentral.com - so why can’t they get a scientific paper at the very least on those sites? Could it be that when other scientists look at their work they find errors? Can’t they get three scientists to agree?
Or do you think those sites are censored too?
Then where do you get your science?
Fair play to uncinus for the balanced view. you seem open to discussion if not entirely open minded. Could i ask your opinion on the Gulf of Tonkin incident which effectively paved the way for the Vietnam War please? Seems to me that your position is fairly trusting of the authorities and their message to the people: ‘trust us’. I don’t, just so you know, and this one incident is an example of why - intentional fabrication. I could name at least one more. The more you investigate, the more you realise you have been lied to…
I certainly agree people get carried away with Chemtrails, and that they can get confused about what is real / normal and what isn’t. But, I have seen and still have in my possession a PDF from the council on foreign relations specifically talking about aerosol spraying of particulates into the atmosphere to help combat climate change. This is pretty concrete evidence that this apparent mistaken phenomena is, at least, being discussed by authorities. I would also name Porton Down in the UK as another admission by government to knowledge of / participation in aerial spraying.
Now, if people are simply misguided/mistaken all over the world at the same time (more or less) in noticing these things exisiting (as I did one peaceful day on the beach as the sky became gridded with lines and then subsequently a huge halo appeared around the sun), then effectively what we are talking about is the biggest, unrelated mass misunderstanding humanity has ever realised. Would you agree with that? I mean it is a world wide misunderstood ‘phenomena’, is it not?
I have seen people looking and pointing at these contrails where they are gridded or spraying on and off ( which as I understand it from your perspective is an atmospheric variation), surely the fact that hundreds of thousands of people in the world noticing this apparently normal phenomena (from your perspective) is indicative of something? There is nothing to be gained from people noticing something new when they are genuinely (and this does appear to be genuine from the people I have discussed it with) intrigued as to a new phenomena they are just discovering. There is no motivation, no money and no respect to be had from at least being intrigued and then disagreeing with those who would tell you that you are mistaken.
There are times when it pays dividends to stick to your inner belief of something even when an authority figure or established opinion contradicts you, whilst remaining open to the idea that, at the same time, you could also be wrong.
Anyway apologies if you have answered the points I have made above and again if you sigh inwardly at yet another misguided opinion. I don’t expect a response and can’t guarantee i’ll remember to come back to this site as it was a random visit. My heart tells me that you as a man of science are perhaps missing something which is right in front of your nose. Regards. Richard.
My opinion on the Gulf of Tonkin is pretty much what you would get from reading the Wikipedia article and the articles it references:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident
It was faulty intelligence that was deliberately spun to create a pretext for war.
Of course the government is not always honest with the people.
Evidence that people are thinking about something is entirely different from evidence that they are doing it. People SHOULD think about climate modification. But is there any evidence that anyone is actually doing it? Is there any evidence that they are NOT doing it?
Think about this. If the government were modifying the weather, don’t you think some other government would have noticed, and said something?
Take UFOs. Why did people “start noticing” them in the 1950s? Before that when people saw a bird, or a plane, or a weather balloon, did they just not notice it? Was there actually an increase in UFOs in the 1950s? Someone sees something odd in the sky, they normally think little of it, and soon forget it. But if they then hear about this theory as to what made it (aliens for UFOs, secret conspiracy for contrails), then they remember, and looks some more.
There are perfectly reasonable explanations for the grids and halos you have seen. But for some reason, aliens and conspiracies stick in the brain more than science and common sense. So when the alien UFO theory became popular in the 1950s, then lots of people started seeming them.
I’ve seen people looking and pointing at unusual clouds. It’s the same thing.
“inner belief” sounds a bit like blind faith. Question everything, question authority, question science - but base it on evidence.
…except “it” is not new….it has been happening for as long as airplanes have flown high enough….that some people are now noticing it does not make it a “new phenomena”.
Some people noticed it 30 years ago (and wrote papers about it and took photos)….some people noticed it 10 years ago…and some are just now noticing it….
…and how many people did not notice it at all until they read it on the internet…or were told to “look up”….I believe the internet plays a large role in the “hyping” of the hysteria, the congregation of like minded people resulting in the validation of beliefs without the encumbering reality of scholarship, evidence or facts.
“R”- How come You did not notice it until that day at the beach? was that the first day it had ever happened?
And I have now and have had for the past 5 years a program to create and edit ALL pdfs seamlessly. So I, and anyone else with about $100USD and an Office Depot nearby could take your pdf and make it say anything they wanted. Paper without source, without provenance is absolutely useless.
I think that’s a real CFR paper though - they do think-tank stuff like that.
http://www.cfr.org/project/1364/geoengineering.html
Uncinus,
At least i can be reassured by the fact that it’s obvious most people who post here know you are a disinformation site. I find it very amusing that you reposted a post i made about 3 months ago to something that had nothing to do with the discussion at hand, but i wouldn’t expect anything less from a good disinformation agent. I also find it funny that i have had at least 3 posts that you never posted, and i know why this is, because you had NO answer for my questions at your disposal. I wish you were for real and i wish chemtrails were not real but that is not the reality of the situation.
And before you say * Which posts of yours did i not post* Gimme a break, like you will ever own up to them..Sheeesh. I’ll keep posting here even if you don’t post my posts if for no other reason than to maybe…(big maybe) that it may jog your conscience enough that you actually regain some kind of conscience and you realise what kind of monsters you are actually working for.
Billybob
This is not a “disinformation” site. I sincerely believe in everything I write. Nobody pays me, nor can I imagine WHY anyone would. I just find this topic interesting, so I write about it.
billybob, I understand you have a very different world view to the average person. But I’d appreciate it if you could keep on topic. If you have issues with this site, then please just point them out, with references, and I’ll address them - just keep it to contrails and the “chemtrail” theory. Otherwise it’s not going to be very productive, is it?