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Persisting and Spreading Contrails

Do contrails sometimes persist and spread out?

Yes, see the Encyclopædia Britannica article on vapour trails (contrails):

Contrail, streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.
vapour trail. (2007). In Encyclopædia Britannica.Retrieved May 4, 2007,from Encyclopædia Britannica Online: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9074829

(The above quote is from the current EB. However, a Google books search dates the inclusion on the EB back to 1983)

Also see “A Field Guide to the Atmosphere“, by Schaefer and Day, 1981:

Sometimes [contrails] are ephemeral and dissipate as quickly as they form; other times they persist and grow wide enough to cover a substantial portion of the sky with a sheet of cirrostratus (Page 137)

Are spreading contrails a relatively new thing?

No, it has been exactly the same for decades, the only change has been the size of jet engines (producing bigger contrails), engine technology  (burning fuel more efficiently in high bypass jet engines creates cooler exhaust which is more likely to condense before it mixes with the surrounding air) and the amount of air traffic (producing more contrails). Spreading contrails have been mentioned consistently through the history of aviation, including in the popular press. Like Sports Illustrated , Nov 6th 1989:

https://web.archive.org/web/20100521104422/http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1068997/4/index.htm

Now, late in the afternoon, the hatchery explored and the fishing over for the day, Crooks points to the sky. Blue all day, it has now turned hazy. “Contrails,” he says. “The haze is caused by aircraft contrails that have gotten spread out till they cover the sky. This is a major air route from the East Coast to the West.”

For scientific discussion, see, for example, all these articles on contrails. In particular the one from 1970 titled “Airborne Observations of Contrail Effects on the Thermal Radiation Budget

The spreading of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent contrails exist from 25,000 to 40,000 ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet.
[….]
Contrail development and spreading begins in the morning hours with the start of heavy jet traffic and may extend from horizon to horizon as the air traffic peaks. Fig. 1 is a typical example of midmorning contrails that occured on 17 December 1969 northwest of Boulder. By midafternoon, sky conditions had developed into those shown in Fig. 2 an almost solid contrail sheet reported to average 500 m in depth.

Airborne Observations of Contrail Effects on the Thermal Radiation Budget
Peter M. Kuhn
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences
Volume 27, Issue 6 (September 1970) pp. 937–942

(Click on any of the images in this article for a larger view)

Then a few years later, in 1975, we have the article : Multiple Contrail Streamers Observed by Radar, which again has photos (taken in 1971) of spreading and persisting contrails, as well as extensive discussion of these observations.


Multiple Contrail Streamers Observed by Radar.
Konrad TG, Howard JC (1974)
Journal of Applied Meteorology:
Vol. 13, No. 5 pp. 563–572

Here’s a description from 1970, from a local newspaper, the Arcadia Tribune, April 29, 1970:

Aircraft contrails begin to streak the normally bright Arizona sky at dawn. Through the day, as air traffic peaks, these contrails gradually merge into and almost solid interlaced sheet of cirrus cloud – an artificial cirrus cloud that is frequently as much as 500 meters deep.

One of the earliest reference to contrails covering the sky is from the Mansfield News Journal, August 11, 1957, Page 29:

“Within the past few years, the weather bureau has begun to report the trails as actual cloud layers when there are sufficient trails to cover a portion of the sky.”

Here’s a description from 1955:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=SosSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=pvYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=851,1486793

An extremely persistent con trail might stay in the sky all day

But even earlier, and with a perfect description of what “chemtrail” theorist claim cannot happen comes this account from 1944:

The News, Frederick, MD, March 7, 1944

Contrails frequently have a tendency to cause a complete overcast and cause rain. In Idaho I have seen contrails formed in a perfectly clear sky and four hours later a complete overcast resulted

Below is the entire top of the page of that newspaper, in case you want to look it up.

And from the book “Flight To Arras” by Antoine de Saint Exupery, written in 1942 about a military mission in 1940:

The German on the ground knows us by the pearly white scarf which every plane flying at high altitude trails behind like a bridal veil. The disturbance created by our meteoric flight crystallizes the watery vapor in the atmosphere. We unwind behind us a cirrus of icicles. If the atmospheric conditions are favorable to the formation of clouds, our wake will thicken bit by bit and become an evening cloud over the countryside.

Another from 1958

723 thoughts on “Persisting and Spreading Contrails

  1. Addie says:

    lol Unci, I am starting to like your sense of humor, and your tenacity, you are almost as good as I am ;o)

  2. I was being serious. It is the weather that causes the differences in contrails.

    Here’s a site where you can see what planes are overhead.

    http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KSAN

    Click on the map with the blue and green planes in the top right.

    That’s just the planes in the air RIGHT NOW. It goes on all day, every day. Exactly the same. Except, when the weather is right, they make contrails and you can see them. When the weather is otherwise, then they don’t make contrails, so are a lot harder to see.

    That’s all there is to it.

  3. Addie says:

    That airtraffic is unbelievable, I looked at your link, again, thank you.
    What I meant was : I like to see a bit of humor , even in serious matters.. and it was meant as a compliment, I know u were serious, so am I. this does not exclude a good chuckle ever here and there.. does it?
    Wow, I can’t believe those planes day in and day out.
    I met someone from Alaska, at a party this afternoon, I asked him about HAARP.. and he explained a lot to me about it.. very very interesting stuff.

  4. goodvibes1378 says:

    I grew up in Alaska, Addie …

    Methinx Unc missed my point.

    Email me if so inclined, Addie.

  5. Addie says:

    goodvibes.. what is your e-mail?
    I tried, but it’s not working…

  6. marcah says:

    Check
    Can contrails affect “venticular” clouds???? Do you have pics of these type of clouds from ages ago???

  7. marcahh says:

    HI all! I made a mistake weatherwars.info ( NOT .net)

  8. marcah, I think you mean lenticular clouds?

    Lenticular clouds are roughly circular clouds that usually form over mountains. They can look very impressive.

    While they can form at contrail altitudes, it’s unlikely that contrails would contribute much to their development. In fact, pilots are trained to avoid lenticular clouds, as they indicate very turbulent weather conditions.

    Lenticular clouds are natural clouds, and as such have been observed since the dawn of time. They were originally called “cap clouds”, as they form a cap over the mountain.

    Being such pretty clouds, they show up in any old book on clouds. There’s one on the cover of “Clouds of the World”, published in 1972. See also plate 73 of “Cloud Studies in Colour”, published in 1967.

  9. native oregonian says:

    They spray portland all the time, been watching for 2 years. Someone told me they come from evergreen aviation, which is only 30 miles away. A lot of Oregonians have taken notice and have had resperatory problems after the lovely “contrails” spread across the sky and make there way to the ground. A lot less blue sky, even when they forecast sunny conditions, the “contrails” destroy all traces of blue sky. Ive noticed a rainbow effect in them that leads me to believe they are chemical in nature. I’m no scientist but i know when somethings changed when you live in a place all your life, and suddenly the skies above are very different. I don’t care if it is used to combat “global warming” lol, but they need to stop messing with our weather or it will bite us in the ass. I don’t expect anything but criticism for my post, but uni is obviously in the loop, so it is pointless to argue.

  10. The Evergreen Aviation thing is an interesting misunderstanding. Evergreen make a supertanker that is supposed to be used for fire control. However, they only have one, and it dumps its entire load in less than a minute – so it can hardly be responsible for the trails you are seeing.

    http://www.evergreenaviation.com/supertanker/index.html

    No, what you are seeing are normal contrails. There’s more air traffic now than there was 10 years ago, and you’ve just noticed the trails two years ago. Note some people noticed them ten years ago. So if you failed to notice them for 8 years, then why is it at all odd that you did not notice them in the previous ten years?

    Most people have STILL not noticed them. You don’t notice what you are not looking for.

  11. Addie says:

    Thank you native !
    I am noticing something else lately.
    We have clouds over the desert in the afternoon and little thunderstorms, so we are use to seeing those clouds.. yet they never come far west.. they stay over those mountains and the desert,
    Lately, I notice.. that in front of those thunderclouds “they” are laying the Chemtrails in spurts.. like streaks then clear.. then another streak.. and so on. The whole thing looks different than the thunderclouds and.. THIS stuff moves all the way west.. over us. Once it reaches us.. the sun turns reddish and very weird looking.
    “They” think we don’t notice because they put them right in front of the real clouds. But.. we DO notice, there is an obvious difference.
    The breathingtrouble people are having are increasing.. including my own. It is a conspiracy of silence and we all know it.
    The NewAge goal.. to rid the planet of the pleague of people.. in action ! Just am wondering why those pilots think, their families aren’t breathing the same crap?! Maybe they were immunized.. who knows.
    Something stinks to high heaven, and more and more people are waking up.. sad to say:” A Bit Late ….”

  12. Warrior says:

    I understand that you are eliminating my comments from your blog which only confirms my opinion of you. By refusing to enter my opinions on your blog you are really telling me I know what I am talking about. You are just afraid to let the TRUTH be told!

  13. I remove comments that consist only of insults towards people here. This site is contrail SCIENCE. If you would like to post some comments on the science, then I’d be happy to see them.

  14. SR1419 says:

    Addie-

    persistent contrails are often found in front of weather systems…please research ice supersaturation to understand the nature of the atmosphere above you.

    I do not understand why you remain ignorant of the processes in the atmosphere and yet you believe you know what is happening in the sky above you.

    That makes no sense whatsoever.

  15. Addie says:

    SR1419..
    Don’t think for a sec that you could fool me.. I’d know you anywhere by now.
    And you either are part of it all.. or just plain in denial.. either way, I don’t like you much !

  16. marcah says:

    I do not think that Uncinus is attempting to manipulate anyone . This person KNOWS about atmospheric science! However… Those who are involved with, —- —— —— —–weather “modification”aka.chemtrail science also KNOW the established understandings. It is for that reason alone “they” can perform such a complex operation, UNDER COVER. Consider this, each type of”sky application” may be tailored to appear like… regular, normal , CONTRAILS>

  17. Addie says:

    marcah.. the ones we are having since about 2 weeks, are exactly that: Tailormade to look like real clouds..
    But they are not.. contrails or clouds.. they are bonified real Chemtrails.

  18. native oregonian says:

    They tend to spray according to the wind patterns. If a storm is coming in, they run parallel to it, laying down trails in front of the approaching front, the “contrails” (heh) then blow down into the valley and the chemicals fall to earth with the rain. If there is hardly any wind, they lay a lattice work of “contrails” to decend to the ground almost like a blanket.
    Curiously, yesterday I saw them flying lots of circular patterns, and I have no idea what that does other than create clouds that look like thunder heads but produce no rain. Go ahead tear me apart Uni, I don’t care, its amusing to see your responses. (by the way, i was working consruction for the last 5 years working 6-10’s and I didn’t have much time to pay attention to the sky. That changed about 2 years ago when it became obvious to many people, including me, that portland was getting sprayed by something, because after a “contrail” filled day people were getting sick.

  19. Addie says:

    thanx native, those are my observations exactly.
    Since we have thunderclouds over the desert, they lay those trails directly in front of them…. funny thing is, the thunderclouds remain East over the mountains, the ” fake clouds ” separate.. and move West.. over to us, at the beach.
    It is interesting to watch as it is sickening.
    Not one reply yet.. from any of the places I sent mail to.. not even one..

  20. Addie says:

    by the way : My eyes are blurry and burning.. my chest hurts, I am coughing, and weirdly enough, I do NOT have a cold or know of any ” allergies” except the man-made ones !

  21. Warrior says:

    Back to you Addie, Thank you for the hug!!!
    Thank you to Marcah for all your valid points. Uncinus, none of this was an insult yet you left it out…I was actually searching for “sylphs” when I found your site. I do believe they exist and are real. Angels, aliens, leprechauns, boogieman, LochNess Monster, Jesus walking on water, orbs, near-death experiences, black holes, infinite universes beyond our little tiny sky, string theory and it’s eleven dimensions (SCIENTISTS have THE NUMBERS TO PROVE IT!)- ALL OF IT can be real to anyone who chooses to believe in them. Addie, you know how your CA Sun isn’t always such a “sunny delight” anymore? You wonderful, wonderful woman, your eyes are perfectly fine. It is NOT the weather. We don’t need to be Einsteins or Stephen Hawkings to KNOW and FEEL what is true.

  22. Warrior, I think you mistaken about the 11 dimensions. Firstly, scientists do NOT have the numbers to prove it. What you are talking about is called M-Theory, and is simply a theory about the way the universe works. There’s currently no way of testing if it is correct or not (although the Large Hadron Collider might help there).

    Secondly, and more importantly, the “11 dimensions” are probably not the kind of dimensions you think they are. A “dimension” is not a parallel universe, or some other world like heaven, or the fairy land. A dimension is simply a way of measuring the universe – the first four dimensions being “up”, “right”, “forward” and “time”. Just things you can measure. The other theorized dimensions are difficult to explain, but are basically just other measurements of directions in space.

    If anyone is interested, here’s a video to confuse you:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjsgoXvnStY

  23. Addie says:

    Warrior, sorry.. bu bu but, I don’t understand one dern thingy you are saying. Nothing makes sense to me.. least of all the Sylphs etc… and never mind the Einsteins and the Hawkings.. what the Kitty’s foot.. does any of this have to do w. those confounded miserable Chemtrails? Write again please, and make it simple please.. for those of us ( me ) w. only an average IQ and no scientific background or scientific education. Mercy please.. ok?

  24. Oregon native says:

    Lots of air traffic the last few days, not a “contrail” to be seen. Same temps and humidity as Thursday, which was “contrail” filled for as far as the eye could see. Strange how that is. They gave us a break! I think i’ll go to a park and enjoy it.

  25. Oregon Native, Here’s today’s (Tuesday 9/9/2008) Oregon satellite photo:

    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=AERONET_HJAndrews.2008252.aqua.1km

    Clear, except for fires.

    And here’s from last Thursday:
    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=AERONET_HJAndrews.2008248.aqua.1km

    And the full size version:
    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=AERONET_HJAndrews.2008248.aqua.250m

    And the overview
    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=USA1.2008248.terra.2km

    If you zoom in, you can see wispy high altitude clouds everywhere, with a bank over Portland. If you zoom in on the cloud bank, you can see that the contrails only form INSIDE the region of high humidity.

    Remember, it’s not the temperature and humidity on the ground that’s important – it’s where the planes are flying (around 30,000 feet).

  26. Marcah says:

    so how about the high- bypass ratio turbines??
    I have been reading an essay on “air pharmacology” written by Jim Phelps, who claims to have invented generation 1 and 2 methods for sky application of ionizing chemistry. Very interesting!!!!!!This essay was written in 2005. The author claims that the government is trying to dump, “Hydrogen fluorine” into space and down with precipitation. He states that HF is not only super toxic but it is also destroying our ozone layer.?????????

  27. Yeah, Phelps claims to have invented chemtrails. But offers no actual evidence. Claims are pretty pointless without evidence. Even the extreme chemtrails affectionados don’t give him much credence:

    http://educate-yourself.org/lte/jimphelpschemtrailarticle15apr05.shtml

    High-bypass turbines are interesting. I’ve heard they produce longer lasting contrails, but I’m not yet clear on why they should. Seems like the contrails would initially be wider, but as less fuel it burnt, then less water would be introduced into the atmosphere.

    I’d be happy if anyone has clarification on this.

  28. Marcah says:

    hey!! I live in Canmore, Alberta right on the edge of the rocky mountains. Why do the aircraft in question leave contrails over the EXACT same region ?? Air masses move around causing humidity to shift at random, right?? It seems to appear as though the planes are manipulating the weather, and that perhaps this region is plays a critical role in say, moving the jetstrem?? It just seems odd that the same conditions are present almost daily in the same spot!!! Even the contrails CHANGE at that same location. Honestly I have a passion for aviation. Is it possible to add a valve to the high bypass section of the turbine to distibute whatever material through the motor housing. This type of system would make it very difficult to tell the difference between chem. vs. contrail!! Consider the material was in a water base mix, which would create naturally appearing condesation. I have noticed the planes possibly SIMULATING a contrail (water added only) before the “Change in contrail” to a thicker section (chemtrail)and then finally back to a short instantly dissipating (fake) contrail??!!!!!!

  29. Marach, when you say “the EXACT same region”, what region are you referring to? And how do you know that contrails are not forming in other regions?

    Have a look at this photo. It’s a region just south of you (Montana), and shows cloud condition ona day with a lot of contrails. As you can see, on that day, contrails are everywhere the moisture is, and not in any particular region. They just show up when planes fly through a region with moisture in the high atmosphere.

    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=AERONET_Missoula.2008252.aqua.1km

    Now, of course it’s possible for something to be injected into contrails. But you’ve got to ask your self: is there any evidence that people are doing this? Any evidence at all?

  30. Addie says:

    Marcah ^5 and thank you.
    this is exactly what I am observing, w.out being able to express myself as scientifically as you do !

  31. jonathan says:

    Contrails can form clouds too? So what? Is that nothing to be concerned about???

    Furthermore, the moment a contrail forms a cloud, it is actually a chemtrail, so what is your strange debunking logic about?

  32. The thing is Jonathan, contrails have ALWAYS formed clouds. Nothing has changed, and nobody is going around deliberately making cloud cover from contrails on a large scale. It’s just a side effect of normal air traffic.

    But you are right that it’s something to be concerned about. See this report for more datails:

    http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc/aviation/003.htm

  33. Marcah says:

    OK….. What I am trying too tell you is, these aircraft are usually diplaying a common, short and instantly dissipating contrail. Then in the same piece of airspace, (looking west from hwy 1 Trans -Canada on my way back from work in Calgary, centered above the the foothills of the rocky mountains)the contrail becomes longer and longer then breaks off after about 30 sec or so. Next the contrail returns INSTANTLY, to a short , normal contrail.(FAKE!!!!) All the while other aircraft within 500 feet of each other are running around the same region without any contrail!!! I think these operations have been recently geared with condensation simulators in the motors, to appear as legitimate CONTRAILS!!!!!
    Like I stated b4,Those who have created the Cloverleaf program have done ther homework…. They have mastered a bunch of systems with which to possibly hide evidence about exactly W.T.F. is going on. Maybe… The SUN is being altered by another lifeform way out there, and perhaps ,we are only an EXPERIMENT to them.Kinda like a great big Biological mess flying around the grat star THE SUN!!! P.S. everyone, the aircraft in question are usually in pairs in long distance formation. (One chems. out while the other follows with NO chems, 3 MIN. apart)

  34. Nik says:

    Here’s a crazy idea related to Chemtrails. The idea is to reduce sunlight over mass populated areas. Evidence to back it up, the sunlight over the UK during August 2008 was 67% of the average August sunlight seen during the 30 year period between 1960 and 1990 (see MetOffice.gov website).

    Ok so there is a set of evidence from a valid source. Reason for decreasing sunlight??? Check out the following link on YouTube

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28aMSjkcirM

    Just a theory but what do you think?

  35. Year variations don’t really mean very much. Especially in the UK, the weather varies a lot naturally. One year it might be sunny every day in August, and the next year (in August) hardly sunny at all.

    http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/seriesstatistics/uksun.txt

    So yeah, August was a gloomy month, the gloomiest on record. But since the records only go back 90 years, this is hardly surprising.

    And you think it might be because humans have been genetically modified by aliens to have little glass photoreceptor fibers that eat photons and remove the need for food allowing us to ascend to a higher level of consciousness. So why exactly would they be trying to reduce the sunlight?

  36. Nik says:

    Who knows?? I would personally need to see if my skin has “grown” small nanotubes that are directing photons of light into my body as an energy source. Until then I reserve judgement on the man in the video. As for aliens genetically engineering humans, well that is not entirely ridiculous when you consider that we can genetically engineer. Who is to say that a much more advanced race could not have reached a further stage than us (lets hope some people have somewhere!) and ventured back here to change us (for the better or for their owns means).

    Personally I do not really know what to believe as it is all speculation without evidence. As for weather changes, evidently they are real whether it be natural or man-made and they are affecting us.

    As for the nanotubes, I don’t think the man in video thinks they are alien genetic engineering – he thinks it is an evolutionary process brought on by a conscious change in humanity (unless I am totally misunderstanding him). We as a race are realising our potential and are being freed from the shackles (be that financial, emotional or mind control) and entering into a stage where we can live upon light and water alone (much like plants). So to answer your question about the reason for reducing light, I would assume (reading between the lines) it would be to prevent humanity from realising they can take energy from light and don’t need food, or at least to slow down this realisation process.

    Anyway, lets stick to facts for the moment. Persistent contrails/chemtrails are real (although not today – yet) – as for the nanotubes, lets just wait and see ;o)

  37. native oregonian says:

    very heavy “contrails” over Portland Oregon today, appear to be at different altitudes to me.

  38. That would be because of the weather. Contrails DO sometimes form at differing altitudes, and sometimes only in a narrow band of altitude. It depends on the weather.

  39. judy says:

    on 27 Jul 2008 at 5:13 pm 35Addie

    Uncsinus.. please now.. tell me the truth !
    Who is paying you to debunk the facts?
    Who are you working for ?
    Meanwhile we have studied more details on HAARP.. and found connections to the ” mysterious ” “Con”-trails !
    I thank you for responding to me, I really do, but for some reason ( and I am very smart, am told !) I do not trust you.
    Par Example : 10 years ago, one did not see such weird things in the skies.. correct? Of course you will say that is because we had less airtraffic or something like this.
    It does not seem to matter what I say.. you have an uncanny talent to make me sound like a nut.
    It’s ok, we know what we know.. those are not contrails .. dear Unc.. them’s Chemtrails !
    Addie.

    So, I see I wasn’t the first to call this traitor on his ignorant, propaganda that is directed toward young people trained for years by our dumb-down education system to accept anything they’re told–all of you under age 30–good for you for standing your ground and fighting this attack on our bodies by the elite who have special underground places to go when this comes around–what do you think happened to the billions missing from European banks, oh yeah, a trader spent billions on whose watch?? ridiculous.
    A trillion that hasn’t been appropriated and won’t be for 6 months for this bailout in America??
    25% missing from department of defense?? Trillions or billions??]

    This is my theory–we are being sprayed with chemicals for mind control or something more sinister to attack over-population. Hence, the detention camps built all over the nation by Halliburton.

    People– dam it–LISTEN
    Chemtrails don’t just appear in 3 days in a rural area in Kentucky that hasn’t had contrails for months or air traffic for months–this is wrong.
    Traffic of planes is non-existant here.And why would you cloud seed for rain when the crops are dried and season is over in October??DUH-
    Truth????? there was a hole in the metal shield in this part of the atmosphere and the hole had to be repaired–
    3 days, count the chemtrail patterns, then the swelling of the atmosphere for 30 hours on the third day, then clear skies……………….
    Wait…….where are the planes that criss-crossed for 3 days??
    Ah, no traffic of planes after the 3 days?? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

  40. judy says:

    I suppose Uncinus will try to tell us that flouride is safe to ingest also. Is it just me, or does anyone see how obvious his agenda is on this blog? He has a misleading web link to refer to after every lie as if it is some kind of evidence to back up his explanation about what we are seeing. Very vigilant about attempting to debunk anything that does not conform to his false propaganda. How dare you try to tell me that what I see with my own eyes and physically experience on a daily basis is not really happening. You have made it obvious that you are going to stick to your ridiculous explanations even if the poison were sprayed directly in your face. The things that Uncinus says are so ridiculous that it is an insult to my intelligence. Perhaps Uncinus lives in an area that is chemtrail free and he actually believes what he says because he does not know any better. If so, then I want to know why his home is not subject to these chemical warfare attacks, which by the way are perfectly legal as a result of of this little gem:

    CONTINUE SPREADING THE WORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE BEING CONTAMINATED–I’M 58 YEARS OLD–TRUST ME –I HAVE NO DOG IN THIS FIGHT –I HAVE NO CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!

    I LAID AT A POOL AT MY OLD HOUSE FOR 13 YEARS —THIS IS PROGRESSING AS THE PROCESS GOES THROUGH CHANGES–WHY?? DON’T KNOW.

    Here is a hint for you, barium salts, ‘ducting’ and 3-D mapping are involved. Hope that I am not being ‘mis-leading’ by mentioning this Navy program. Are you ready to admit that aerosol programs are already in use ?

    As for my links on contrails being used for over the horizon radio communications during the US Gulf War I, I am looking for a link that is still viable, got a few 403 not found and re-directs so far, I will find a decent link I hope, just have a time crunch at the moment. Nick Begich, in his book Angels don’t play this HAARP discusses the use of contrails for radio communications during the first Gulf war, but I’ll re-post with some web data for you very soon.

    As for the orbs, numerous websites detail them, but keep looking up as I am confident you will see them yourself moving through contrails. Take photos of contrails to see them sooner, indeed they do appear as
    points of light without magnification and I couldn’t rule out plastic bags or weather balloons at this point. I
    do believe that they relate to aerosols but would like better evidence definitely

    JUST SAY, “GOTCHA”, PLEASE

    It’s ok, we know what we know.. those are not contrails .. dear Unc.. them’s Chemtrails !
    Addie.

    A holding pattern?? Why?? no planes in sky for all summer months and all a sudden, whoa and behold— 15 planes in sky in old countryside in KY???
    Bullshit from the barefoot country girl that had no black soot from the grass till the very day the first spray started–I walk to my garden every day barefoot.

    This too is easy to demonstrate, just ask anyone who has not heard of contrails if they have noticed that contrails last a real long time. If they have not, then ask them if they ever remember contrails lasting a long time before last year. They won’t, because they never noticed them at all!

    response—I am 58 years old–been laying beside pool for about 35 years–even had one in my old house from 94 – 07–stupid–I lived looking at the skies 4 months of the year–

    Addie–trust me, this is new–the chemtrails just started and they are dangerous.

    And, Addie, interesting about the contrail/chemtrail difference–sprayings Friday, Sunday, and Monday>?????Guess what??
    We never see planes in this area except going to the Army base and even then one a month.
    But strangely enough, the sky Sunday covered with chemtrails was contrasted nicely with a jet flying through the chemtrails leaving, yes,……………………………………………. a true contrail that disappeared in 45-60 seconds.
    Ta-Da, you POS debunker commie.

    As to what to do? Talk to as many people as you can.. even when you are out and about.. call it to the attention of strangers.

    I tried that with 2 of my neighbors–I’m sure steer clear of the looney is being spoken right now–remember, I am more educated than the average neighbor–I am the question asker, the thinker, the why???
    It isn’t accepted in some circles–accept it and continue to debunk.
    God help this world.
    If you begin having the metal fiber problems, I have a parasite fighter I take for animals–just started yesterday. Found it on one of the propaganda websites about chemtrails that do not exist. (sarcasm here)
    A lady at a health food store tried everything , the only thing that helped her was this, but when the government discovers this, it will be discintinued, ya think?

  41. This too is easy to demonstrate, just ask anyone who has not heard of contrails if they have noticed that contrails last a real long time. If they have not, then ask them if they ever remember contrails lasting a long time before last year. They won’t, because they never noticed them at all!

    Judy, I think you’ve struck at the core of the problem here. You don’t remember seeing something unless you pay attention to it. The whole “chemtrail” thing started about ten years ago, but everyone noticed it at different times. You say only a year? So if you did not notice it until one year ago, even though it’s been going on for ten, then why would you have noticed it before?

  42. judy says:

    Now you’re thinking Addie–keep a journal–started one on my computer to record any and all pertinent data–especially since the 3 days of spraying last week to repair the hole in the atmosphere in our rural area with maybe one plane a month here.

    Anyone out there–have you had black soot from the grass get on your feet–only question hasn’t been answered for me–and don’t say industrial –I moved from industrial to country last year and the first time it happeded was the first day of spraying here. Too much proof there.

  43. judy says:

    And I will suggest that the contention that a plane flies through different blah, blah, blah,,, to make disconnected contrails is BS, because in my 58 years of sky watching at pools for 35 years, never have I ever seen one do that.
    Only jets spraying chemtrails did that –they did it Friday, Sunday ,and not Monday–the sky was so covered with their clouds, couldn’t see.

  44. judy says:

    still love the US, but.. what I escaped.. is following me, I feel it, and know it.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, crying by what Addie wrote,
    I’m okay now. but I read many accounts that said all countries are participating that have resources(money??) except China–
    this has me wondering, if it’s mind control, okay, if it’s pop. control, why not China???
    Regardless, if it’s destroying our pop., hey, winds carry this all around, and since the earth is continuously rotating??? Aren’t we reaching all segments of the world??

    ————————————————————-

    A pilot of a friend said very quietly as an afterthought,
    Until you get a plane,
    a camera crew,
    a pilot, a lab crew on the ground,
    a collection of material from your plane accumulated from the following, filming plane spraying,
    you have no case.
    He flies for one of the commercial airlines/

    ————————————————————-

    I just talked to my attorney-buddy Rick, we are tossing a Class action lawsuit around, so far only in planning stages.. hmm, that would get interesting !

    Be careful, not joking here.
    If many witnesses against Bill and Hillary can commit suicide with 5 bullets to the head and no one notice, we won’t be missed.
    Understand???

    ————————————————————-

    for my post, but uni is obviously in the loop, so it is pointless to argue.

    And he has a bunker underground?? Provided by our millions the government stole form us?? ………Bailout..
    25% missing from DOD??…..not accountalble???
    European banks redneck traders losing billions????biggest myth of all!!!!!!!!!!
    Put it together, folks.

    We don’t know what those pilots were told?? Families threatened?? I know where your children attend school?/ I know where your wife shops?? Not so farfetched, is it??

    All this talk makes me wonder about the tanker contract dispute when it was given to a European company instead of our Boeing?? Aren’t you just a little suspicious about the real story??? Renegotiating now with the kick-ass letters from American citizens…………hmmmmmm..tankers?? to refuel our jets??hmmmmm….

    Warrior says:I understand that you are eliminating my comments from your blog which only confirms my opinion of you…………………

    I thought I was the only one with statements of rebuttal that disappeared–I came
    here to see and it is gone thanks, for informing me Warrior. Can’t handle the observations of this old Kentucky lady??? Got too close to disproving the explanations??? —

    SR1419—uh-oh, watch out people, here’s another plant to boost the ‘uni’ here.

    From Marcah-He states that HF is not only super toxic but it is also destroying our ozone layer.?????????
    I read that the effort to replenish the ozone damage has backfired–if that is what this is???——–that the shield around the earth that is over us is actually not allowing our heat from the earth to escape and causing major repercussions–just an article and another point of view.

    Marcah says:I think these operations have been recently geared with condensation simulators in the motors, to appear as legitimate CONTRAILS!!!!!
    Thanks —I’ll watch for that.

    I’ve cut and pasted (and saved )my comments since the previous valid points were extremely critical in proving this uni wrong and they disappeared and weren’t posted.
    I now have evidence of the date and content of my posts from today.
    Suggest everyone do the same if your posts are missing.

    ————————————————————-

    Judy, I think you’ve struck at the core of the problem here. You don’t remember seeing something unless you pay attention to it. The whole “chemtrail” thing started about ten years ago, but everyone noticed it at different times. You say only a year? So if you did not notice it until one year ago, even though it’s been going on for ten, then why would you have noticed it before?

    I have noticed these sprayings for years and I’m not commenting to you for you are not comprehending my message as I’m aware you have lots to debunk.

    People–I have noticed these for years, I laid on my back for ages, I owned a pool, and before that I visited for years a pool–thought the planes were practicing for a flight school, air shows, But, if this was practice, wait, why no chemtrails at the air shows–don’t fall for anyone’s bS.
    I go to all air shows in smyrna and murfresboro and missed the one In ky. with the accident/death of the pilot. No chemtrails so no practice over my home for ten years or less.

    But, if this was practice, wait, why no chemtrails at the air shows–don’t fall for his bS.
    I’ve questioned for years why they fly in criss-cross which I call a pie crust layer –that’s what they are–people jets do not fly in those patterns.
    They do not turn around in a rural sky and go the opposite direction, especially when no jet has crossed our sky for weeks and voila, 15 pattterns??Oh puhleeze.

    ————————————————————-

    People–I’d like to inform you that there is evidence they spray at night.
    At exactly 3:00 a.m. on the second day of spray here, I saw the layered spray of billowy, white clouds against the full moon. Since the other sky was clear, I’m
    not sure if that wasn’t left from the daily spray, for the spray was only over the western sky and we do turn that direction as we revolve.
    Just watch the night skies, I began watching last week when I read of this.
    LOL–Love to all and may God have mercy on us all.

    I guess the debunker of ***on 17 Oct 2008 at 12:25 pm *** had other appointments or couldn’t handle my points of interest.

    Or is he confused to my cut and paste techniques and can’t discern if it’s my statement or others??

    ————————————————————-

  45. SR1419 says:

    Judy-

    you said:

    “no planes in sky for all summer months and all a sudden, whoa and behold— 15 planes in sky in old countryside in KY???”

    Do you really believe there were no planes in the sky above all summer long?? Surely, you are not that…er..naive…??

    Are you aware that there are literally thousands of planes in the sky at any given moment in the US??

    You are in Kentucky…right smack dab in the middle of the eastern flyway…where do those 100s of planes that traverse the eastern corridor daily…on their way from NY, Boston, Montreal, Providence etc…. to Atlanta, Miami, Tampa etc…go?? Do they veer around Kentucky????

    Please have a clue.

    Learn about atmospheric processes and how and why some days there are contrails and some days there are not. Learn about how sometimes contrails persist and sometimes they do not. Learn about how 2 planes can fly through the same space and one leave a contrail and the other will not.

    Clearly ignorance is not bliss.

  46. judy says:

    Uni: The thing is Jonathan, contrails have ALWAYS formed clouds. Nothing has changed, and nobody is going around deliberately making cloud cover from contrails on a large scale. It’s just a side effect of normal air traffic.

    See, here’s where you fail—you can fight L.A. people with this argument —–side effect of air traffic—–BS

    well in my sky–there are maybe one or two planes a month-I’m out all day sometimes.
    15 chemtrails in one day?? for 3 days last week and not one since???
    You lose that stupid rationality in my country.

    HEY EVERYBODY, WE JUST GOT ON THE JET ROUTE AFTER ONE YEAR LIVING HERE –I WILL PROTEST AT THE FIRST CITY COUNCIL MEETING IF THIS HILLBILLY TOWN HAS ONE.

    Now, a theory of mine–cities get more spraying because extreme traffic and population and industrial conditions continue to deplete the shield over your towns.
    Country environment doesn’t need the continuous sprays. Air is cleaner and stays that way.

    Let me know if rural areas are sprayed every day–mine isn’t which is why the 3 day spray was so obvious and irregular, it was instantly noticed.

  47. judy says:

    http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm

    This is sort of what happened to my skies the third day of spraying.
    Note: the first day and second day was normal spray–misty, cotton candy-like clouds–the third day was a different chemical(guessing) and caused the expansion of the mist sprayed first two days.. Make sense??

  48. well in my sky–there are maybe one or two planes a month-I’m out all day sometimes.
    15 chemtrails in one day?? for 3 days last week and not one since???
    You lose that stupid rationality in my country.

    One or two planes a month? Unfortunately unless you actually live INSIDE an MOA (Military operations area), there is no region of the US that is not overflown by tens of planes every day.

    You just only see them when they leave contrails, because they are very high up, and blend in with the sky.

    I presume you live somewhere near Bowling Green, KY? (Airport code KBWG). Well, have a look at the air traffic overhead right now:

    http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KBWG

    Click on the map with the green planes in the top right. Notice how random the planes seem? There’s really no such thing as a “jet route” in the sense of a narrow freeway that you are forced to fly along. While there are “Victor Airways”, they are TEN MILES WIDE, and you don’t even have to fly along them, many jets don’t (especially private Jets). They just fly the shortest distance between two points, avoiding other planes, to get there as quick as possible.

    So I think it’s pretty clear that you’ve just not noticed contrails before – despite your 35 years of pool experience.

  49. judy says:

    If you think these people are so stupid, and you must, to think that only 3 hours on Friday, and 3 hours on the following Sunday and 3 hours on the following Monday conditions were just absolutely perfect for contrails, but not one hour of the other 120-130 days of the summer, you underestimate the intelligence of the citizens here.

    Hey, guys out there, only 9 hours of 3,120 hours in my rural area was exactly perfect, I say ‘EXACTLY PERFECT’ conditions for contrails.

  50. TonyB says:

    If you’re pitching a sunshield theory please take a look at some of my posts 😉 Most theories on developing sunshields I’ve covered. Ideally they would put particles much higher up because they would stay up for 1-2 years instead of hours to days. However, since it takes very specialized aircraft to get there it’s cost-prohibitive. The best (and most expensive) theory involves placing a shield in a stable orbit between the earth and the sun, filtering roughly 3% of the sunlight reaching earth. On the other hand, 75% of the planet is covered with water. Water actually radiates more than it’s share of IR energy into the atmosphere (compared to average land) and makes for a better target for producing clouds for some other reasons as well. However, that too can get expensive and the primary proposals I’ve seen don’t involve aircraft over the water. One model suggests and increase of 4% of cloud cover over the ocean(s if you prefer to separate them despite no real boundary) would counter greenhouse emmissions for the next 50 years at their current increasing rate. The easiest way to do that, from what I’ve read, is to use watercraft designed to burn specific sulfur compounds. There’s a need for specially designed vessels because if you use sulfur enriched coal you end up raining sulfuric acid and the ocean is acidifying fast enough (plus potential for landfall, actually landfall is ideal in one model.) Now, clouds have two effects over land. During the day they can act as a coolant by reflecting sunlight back into space before it converts into heat, they also act as a heater at night and sometimes during the day depending on factors not completely understood (at least by me and the people who’s works I’ve read.) At night they blanket the earth and keep the heat in; a main reasons deserts can be 100F at noon and 35F at night. Anyway, cities absorb a ton of thermal energy from more sources than the sun, and cloud cover would be counter-productive after 3-4pm local time. I’m with you in some respect, I think they’re doing a lot of research into a solar shield but I have deep questions about the extent in which they are actually testing low level shielding. But, I wouldn’t put anything past our government… Anyway, the pollution and such in and around cities would be more likely to help a shield than to weaken it. Don’t take that as me saying they aren’t or haven’t tried it… read this 😉
    http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/#comment-4807 and just ignore my comments about the government… there’s a long dialogue there though, so don’t just read reply 185.

  51. Judy, that’s seems about the same amount of contrail friendly conditions we’ve seen in LA this summer. And they have all been in the last three weeks. What’s the problem? It depend on the weather.

  52. warrior says:

    Go to Youtube and find a whole (actually several) series on HAARP! Weapons of Weather Warfare- the earthquakes in China etc…etc…
    And, I do think the “bailout” $700MILLION or didn’t it turn into $850MILLION because the Republicans walked out and demanded more $ to “save us”? or themselves!!! to pay for the DUMBS – their underground resorts/homes under “The Hills”? I know I won’t be able to afford the rent! Maybe Unicus will invite me to stay at his place when the next hurricane/earthquake/tornado or tsunami hits? Oh, yeah, and let’s not leave out the ELF mind control abilities HAARP has as well! No wonder I’m so bitchy! LOL hilarious, isn’t it? SAD.

    http://www.youtube.com/watchv=e8LzF2HFmkA&feature=related

  53. TonyB says:

    There’s an underground city not far from where I live ;-p No joke, it’s technically a storage facility but houses several government agencies including a large part of Social Security. They have a private water source, fire department, air supply, and much more… It’s nuke proof, deep deep in a mine and the entrance is well guarded besides the massive metal door ;-p Look up ‘Iron Mountain’ but you probably can’t afford the rent there either… Then again it might be the place you’re talking about… I think the bailout is still at $750B… ELF is old ;-p Look at ULF 😉 But, as someone mentioned somewhere, HAARP calls for it’s atmospheric content to be much, much higher up than clouds or contrails. So, while HAARP could be real (by that I mean active), it probably has nothing to do with chemtrails. But who knows, maybe they modified it?…

  54. Addie says:

    Interesting observation, I think, and I would like feedback on this please.
    Since about 3 days, California ” Blue and Gold ” is back in all her Glory.. NO CHEMTRAILS at all.
    Could it be, ” they ” won’t do it just be4 the election? So, as to not upset us?
    Am sure.. it will start up again full blast on Nov 5th, 1 minute after 12 AM ;o( Please Judy.. or any of you, gimme feedback !

    Toni, I know all about those Underground facilities !
    One in Montana.. where and old Highway is closed off.. because it leads right to an entrance !
    There are many others in CA, in Death Valley, and let’s not even get near Mt Shasta ! Literally, they are all over. Isen’t ” Iron Mountain” also called :” Standby or Shadow Government ?” Well must do more research. I have been to Death Valley though and Mt.Shasta, and have seen very very eerie and weird things. BUT.. lest we stray from the Chems…. back to ” them…”

    Judy, what’s that stuff you are taking from the healthfoodstore?
    I want to get some.. would u tell me please?
    Wow.. my 3. comment today, got to stop now, or Uni will delete me.. will you Uni ? Ah, I so enjoyed these 3 days we had.. not a cloud or chem in the skies.. so gorgeous, I walked and thanked the Lord for that Beauty !

  55. TonyB says:

    Iron Mountain is essentially the primary backup facility for the US Govt. It’s the most secure location acknowledged to exist on the planet. If there was an attack/invasion a few select detonations would secure the facilities for months or years. But it also holds undisclosed contents from private investors. Relating to chemtrails though, it could be where the low flying tanker/cargo jets are coming from and/or going to that I see from time to time… but I’m not aware of any airports in that area which could support large jets.

  56. Jakeability says:

    Uncinus-I’ve only recently become curious about this interest in “Con/Chemtrails”. EVERYONE who researches this issue WANTS to debunk it. It is a much more comfortable posture. Can you provide me links showing images of these same types of trails and cloud formation prior to say..the 90’s, on the Oregon Coast. I’m not denying they exist, but since you seem SO dedicated to debunking this, I suppose you will provide them for me. I originally came to this site WANTING to debunk chemtrails, but honestly Uncinus, the exact opposite has happened and I suppose most other visitors to this site have experienced a similar effect. So therefore the purpose of your site seems to be failing. I’ve found the comments and links provided by the advocates of chemtrails to be more independent and compelling than the Nasa Government sponsored links you provide, as these are the very type of institution suspected of complicity in this type of operation.

    Admittedly, some of your arguments are strong, but the sum total of convincing arguments for chemtrails exceeds the amount of points you have seem to have made. This site and it’s responses have neither proved, or disproved the chemtrail theory to me specifically, but I am moving more and more into the corner of the very people you wish to debunk, BECAUSE of this site, not despite yet. You may want to consider closing this site, ..it’s not working. It’s like trying to lose weight by starting a Twinkie diet, you will not only NOT lose weight, but the opposite will occur. This site is like a Twinkie diet. Also,..If I ever am able to be convinced these chemtrails are a normal occurence,..then I would be very glad, and wouldn’t have to waste my time searching for the truth. It would have NO relevance to my life whether or not some random stranger still believed in chemtrails.

    Uncinus you MUST spend an enormous amount of time, debunking a myth that has NO relevance to your life…Why?…What do you benefit from all this? If you enjoy debunking conspiracies, do you have other sites debunking other conspiracies? If someone believes in aliens, and you don’t, would you actually dedicate a portion of your life to convince them otherwise? The answer is simple..No. I don’t mind if people believe in harmless fantasies. Since this seems to be your position, why do you?…Your EXTREME dedication debunking what you consider to be a myth, or misinformation, seems highly unusual, to the point where it is causing visitors of this site to suspect YOU might be complicit, and not just unusual or ignorant…Sorry Uncinus, but this seems to be the prevailing sentiment of your responders, surely you realize this.

  57. Jakeability, I might as well ask you to provide me with pre-1990 pictures of traffic lights in Oregon, and then should you fail to find any, take this as proof that traffic lights only came to Oregon in 1990.

    Flickr only has 25 photos flagged as “Oregon Coast” taken between 1980 and 1990:

    http://flickr.com/search/?q=oregon+coast&d=taken-19800101-19890101&ct=0

    None of them had contrails, but with a little digging I found this from 1984

    http://flickr.com/photos/hershman/792193254/in/set-72157600330928237/

    The fact is though, that there were far few contrails in the 1980s compared to today, and there were a lot fewer photos taken.

    Contrails obviously did exist though, have a look at these photos:

    http://contrailscience.com/contrail-photos-through-history/
    Including this one from Oregon, 1984
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/409570697/

    I’m glad you are taking the time to consider the evidence. And I don’t really spend that much time here, no more than most people spend watching the television.

  58. Jakeability says:

    I think the average American spends 4-5 hours watching television per day, so if you spend an equal amount of time debunking a myth, that is pretty significant…I’m just having trouble understanding your motive and commitment to this topic. I try to put myself in a similar situation and imagine how I may act. If my friend believes in bigfoot, and I don’t,…I can’t imagine spending even 1-2 hours per day trying to persuade him and others from believing in this supposed myth. How would that benefit me? How does this benefit you? And no, not everything a person does has to benefit themselves. Donating to charities for example does not benefit me, but feeds a hungry person perhaps. Your work benefits whom? I realize that some of the believers in chemtrails and their intent sometimes seem a bit excessive. Those excesses come from the reality of the severity of corrupt governments and it’s supportive institutions. What is your opinion on some of the admitted and unadmitted travesties intentionally perpetrated against innocent civilians? You must be aware of many of these programs. Just for an easy example, why increase the amount of flouride in drinking water when it is obviously unnecessary? When you become aware of the fact that there are programs designed to increase mortality, in an effort to reduce population, you examine your environment a little closer. Do you honestly believe the US government’s interests are the same as the average citizen? Before people understood the concept of gravity, it was impossible to imagine our planet being round. In order to comprehend this fact, understanding gravity was a requirement. If you believe the government is acting in our best interest, you can’t even comprehend the possibility that this type of activity is going on…And as far as your reference to traffic lights, if you ask everyone you know if traffic lights existed pre 1990, what percent would answer “duh, obviously”. However, if you point out these chem/contrails as they exist today, and ask those same friends, did this exist pre 1990, what do you suppose their response will be?..hmmm.

  59. I think you are taking this a bit too serious. This is just a blog on a topic I find interesting. I also enjoy the discussions, and the chance to exercise my science muscle occasionally. Lots of people spend time on things that interest them. That’s why I gave the TV example. You know some people watch General Hospital, that’s on five hours a week, so they are devoting all that time to watch a soap? People have hobbies you know.

    Flouride I have no real opinion on. I’ve heard of the opposition to fluoridation, but I’ve not seen any good evidence that it’s a significant health problem. I certainly don’t think it’s designed to increase mortality.

    You’ve got to ask: if there are all these programs designed to increase mortality, then why has mortality decreased every year this century, even in older people?

  60. Jakeability says:

    I actually take other subjects of the overall implications of this being one of many tools possibly being used against civilian populations far more seriously. My research into chem/contrails at this point has been fairly limited, and I too somewhat enjoy the discussions. It would be more enjoyable from your perspective, you don’t believe anything like this can happen in “our” country. The first group to use flouride in water was when Hitler used it in the concentration camps. Why is there thimerasol in vaccines? Why is aspartame in children’s Kool Aid. These ingredients are unnecessary. If your roommate has admitted to have stolen from you over and over, every time money comes up missing, who do you suspect? If it’s possible these people are spraying aerosols, for whatever reason,considering their behavior in the past, how can you not expect skepticism? As far as the mortality rate declining, consider the source of the study. The same government sources consistently and blatantly skew,change,omit,distort numbers to improve economic data in relation to inflation and un/employment. EVERYONE accepts this deliberate deception as fact. The sources you have probably read referring to mortality have been misrepresented by omitting infant deaths gradually from the statistic. For example, my greatgrandmother lived into her 90’s, my grandmother is 86 and very healthy. Yet more and more, 50 year old men are dying from heart failure, 40 year old women from cancer. The cancer rate among men in the US in now 1 in 2 as reported by TIME magazine. Diabetes, autism, AIDS, when you realize that militarism, murder, abortion, starvation, and all forms of increasing forms of cancer are exploding, how can you conclude that mortality has decreased? I suspect your information has been corrupted and manipulated by people with trillions, of trillions of motives. What motive do people who warn others about these possible programs have? anxiety?…Uncinus, really,..I’m not really all that religous, but I do believe in good and evil. Your idea of evil seems to be limited to single individuals, and government corruption limited to Watergate. What happens when evil comes together, covertly, takes over governments [as was the case in the US when in 1913, the federal reserve act was signed, and these types of programs began] and decieves and manipulates the poplulation into believing nonsense like flouridation is meant to protect our teeth!? The only possible way to regain control of our governments is through a worldwide mass awakening, I can’t save myself, the only way to succeed is for us ALL to stand up together against these evil institutions. If these allegations are true, then time is not on our side, hence the seriousness.

  61. Jakeability, as fascinating as your comments are, I’m afraid they are veering a little bit off the topic of contrails. I understand you are trying to say something along the lines of “it’s possible they could be poisoning us with contrails, based on their track record”. But given that the interpretations of who “they” are, and what their track record is, I’d prefer to focus on actual evidence of these trails being anything unusual.

    So, let’s accept without comment your premise that some powerful group is attempting to reduce the population by various means.

    Then, what evidence do you have that contrails are part of this?

  62. Jakeability says:

    At this moment, I don’t have “conclusive” evidence that chem/contrails are part of this, this is merely my suspicion. I came to this site because you have taken on the responsibility of proving that they are not part of this. It should be earsier to disprove a covert program than to prove one, you understand this. I’m not trying to convince you, I came here so you could convince me. I hope you are right. My research will continue on this subject,..thanks for your interest.

  63. Actually, I’m not really interested in addressing if “chem/contrails are part of this”. That’s really beside the point. What I’m addressing here is that what some people say are “chemtrails” are actually indistinguishable from contrails.

  64. Jakeability says:

    If you were only addressing this issue, you could write a statement or thesis, you actively seek conversion. The straw man you constantly set up is asking for silver bullet-smoking gun evidence of a possible COVERT operation. Do you honestly believe Lee Harvey Oswald was the sole assasin of JFK? If not, what evidence do you have? The whole point of a covert operation is to leave very little, or preferably NO hard evidence, correct? And so when someone suspects this type of activity,….you require the very evidence the program was designed to prevent?
    If you are married or have children, do you love them? If so, what evidence do you have of this love?..The fact is sometimes the only and often best evidence is observing behavior and looking closely at what they are saying. A father proves his love for his children by providing for them, comforting them, encouraging them, answering their questions honestly etc…When weather modification laws have been passed, unauthorized testing occuring, horrific various potential programs openly discussed, carbon taxes being suggested and when you ask questions of our supposed representatives about these topics,…you never get a full open discussion, but rather deflection and/or ridicule….This seems like VERY suspicious behavior.
    You really seem to enjoy science, perhaps you should diversify and apply some of your ambition and intelligence into studying the history of government, and it’s current nature. I will continue to look at your points on this specific issue through the lens of science, with the presumption that this is entirely weather related while still maintaining a sense of skepticism..Hopefully you can too.

  65. So, it seems like you are basically admitting that there is no evidence that suggests that chemtrails are anything other than contrails?

    I’m not asking for silver bullet evidence, I’m asking for ANY evidence.

    And, you might want to scroll back up to the top of this page, and read the article there. That’s evidence.

  66. Jakeability says:

    Any evidence? OK, how about the fact that apparently many, many people are suspiscous, and being more observant…has this always been the case?. And no, I hadn’t heard about them on the radio. What about the supposed reports of pilots, who have supposedly admitted to this activity ‘off the record’. What are the purposes of the weather modification laws, these questions have been asked of our elected ‘democratic’ representatives, without response.These reports and testimonials in you opinion are evidence of what,..hysteria? You assert that convieniently, this has always occured, just nobody noticed? If this is your position, can you think of a single other imagined harmless misconception similar to this? Are people somewhere thinking the moon is shrinking, and they just hadn’t noticed?..of course not. Chances are, if you hadn’t noticed it before, that’s because it wasn’t happening. For example, in the last year I started noticing my children seem to be getting vaccine after vaccine. I don’t remember having had so many shots when I was a kid? Turns out, in the 80’s the recommended vaccine program included about 10 vaccines, but was increased to about 36. Now, did the dosage dramatically increase, or did it just “seem” to have dramatically increased because I decided to take a second look. With vaccines, with the increase in dosage, we have seen a correlating increase in multiple, seperate and sometimes new conditions. So, if as you admit that there is an increase in the amount of chem/contrails, obviously people are going to look for an increase in negative, correlating effects of this occurence ….If you don’t require smoking gun evidence, what evidence would be sufficient?…As I have said, I have only recently began researching this topic, I haven’t reached a defenite conclusion yet,as you have.

  67. A good example of a similar occurrence is the Seattle Windshield Pitting Epidemic:

    http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&File_Id=5136

    Compare that with the early history of Chemtrails:

    http://contrailscience.com/a-brief-history-of-chemtrails/

    Interest in contrails increased after the Art Bell show, and spread on the internet. What might have been another brief “Windshield Pitting”, took root on the mailing lists and message boards that did not exist back in the 1950’s

    Of course this does not explain people noticing contrails before they have heard of the chemtrail theory. But that’s been going on for decades as well. See this newspaper clipping from 1950:

    http://contrailscience.com/images/L/1950+waterloo+courier.jpg

    Sound familiar? There’s more here:
    http://contrailscience.com/contrail-confusion-is-nothing-new/

    Let me ask you a question, Jakeability, when did you first notice “chemtrails”?

  68. Jakeability says:

    Uncinus-in a previous comment you reference comparing apples to oranges, and in a follow up comment you do just that. Maybe something like do as I say, not as I do. The winshield pitting was a very interesting story, and a good example of public hysteria regarding conditions that had already pre existed. However, from the story itself, this supposed windshield pitting was open, and closed within a matter of days, and wasn’t suspected of having any specific intent. I first began to notice what “appeared” to be contrails that seemed to linger and form into cirrus looking formations about a year ago. Since then I have been more observant, and this activity “seems” to have increased. I am well aware of the notion that if you are actively looking for something, you will find it. I concede this may completely explain chem/contrails. However the opposite may also be true, as was the case with the vaccines. The reason they “seemed” to increase, was because they DID dramatically increase. Autism increases have mirrored vaccine increases.Why didn’t I notice this before? This subject too has been discussed on radio shows, is this to explain why vaccine dosage “seemed” to increase also? I didn’t merely assume these persistent contrails just began, I wouldn’t be here if that was the case. Believe it or not, I actually hope to prove this IS a normal occurence. Your interest in this particular subject is, as you said to “flex your scientific muscle” indicating you started this website with the intent to persuade others that they just simply ‘hadn’t noticed’ before. Your mind had already been made up. So, perhaps you too are guilty of shaping evidence around your particular presumption. You produced one photo clearly showing contrails prior to 1990, in the 1984 picture. Which looked EXACTLY like what I have seen recently. You use these pictures as silver bullet like evidence proving what I am seeing today has always occured. If I showed you a photo of a $20 dollar bill from say,..1914, is this evidence that the current money supply has always been at this particular level? Is inflation a radio hoax…of course not.The ENTIRE volume of photos, videos and testimonials in the past 10-12 years, you attribute entirely to radio shows and hysteria. Again, I am here to find the truth, and you are here to persuade others you already have the truth…I purport to be still learning about this topic with an open mind, so it’s ok if I make mistakes and assumptions. You’re suggesting you don’t make mistakes because you already have the answers. I hope to end up with the same conclusions you have made, I’m only suggesting you may have came to your conclusion prematurely, probably because of your apparent lack of foreknowledge of intentional human degradation programs….You can’t imagine anything like this happening here…Not here.

  69. Jakeability says:

    Now Uncinus, let me ask you a question..What is your opinion on the supposed global warming/climate change hysteria? And what affect does persistent, daily cirrus like formations have on global temperatures….With your scientific background, your answer to this question should be very interesting.

  70. I first began to notice what “appeared” to be contrails that seemed to linger and form into cirrus looking formations about a year ago. Since then I have been more observant, and this activity “seems” to have increased. I am well aware of the notion that if you are actively looking for something, you will find it. I concede this may completely explain chem/contrails.

    So, despite the “chemtrails” having been around since 1997, you failed to notice them until a year ago? So, why exactly to you think there were no “chemtrails” in the past? Why do you think that “chemtrails” are different to “contrails”.

    You noticed your child was getting a lot more vaccines. The increase in number from 10 to 36 is about the same percentage as the increase in air traffic over the last 20 years. There ARE more contrails now. You just did not notice them until 2007.

    You produced one photo clearly showing contrails prior to 1990, in the 1984 picture. Which looked EXACTLY like what I have seen recently. You use these pictures as silver bullet like evidence proving what I am seeing today has always occured.

    I’m sorry, I’m a little confused. You asked for some specific evidence, so I gave it you. What exactly is the problem?

    I think perhaps you are reading a little bit too much into my motives. Perhaps you could address the actual facts. My motives cannot change facts.

  71. Now Uncinus, let me ask you a question..What is your opinion on the supposed global warming/climate change hysteria? And what affect does persistent, daily cirrus like formations have on global temperatures….

    The global climate is a very complex system with a very large number of variables that is very difficult to model. It certainly seems plausible that increasing the amount of carbon in the air would increase the greenhouse effect, and hence raise global temperatures. Most scientists agree that it seems likely that this has happened, and will continue to happen.

    Aviation induced cirrus are though to also have a net warming effect, as they trap reflected heat radiation, especially at night. Some have theorized that we could help reduce global warming by avoiding night flights, and avoiding flying at altitudes where contrails form.

  72. Jakeability says:

    You resist being clear in your responses to whether or not you believe global warming is actually occuring and the imminent danger it supposedly poses. You generalize, “It certainly seems plausible that increasing the amount of carbon in the air would increase the greenhouse effect, and hence raise global temperatures” plausible you say. You are very strong in your posture against supposed chemtrails, why so passive when referring to global warming. One of my suspiscions is this; the previous recent warming was likely due to solar flares, which accounts for the warming we’ve seen in our entire solar system. Not fossil fuels. However when this flaring subsided, an artifacial environment had to be produced to create an atmosphere that could mimmick warming. Perhaps this is the reason behind the weather modification laws we’ve seen passed. You are too “main-stream” to understand why sombody may wish to perpetrate such a hoax, so I won’t waste any time regarding intent. Because of this possiblility, I consider whether or not chem/contrails are intentionally increased to be legitimately plausible. Perhaps contrails have always existed under the right circumstances, and HAVE increased due to increased airtravel. Under these conditions, a covert program would have all the superfacial cover necessary to pull of such an operation. Cointelpro would contribute to debunk this, and even some innocent civilians would pitch in. I’m still unsure whether you represent the former or the latter.

  73. I though I was very clear. I don’t know if the current global warming is anthropogenic, but I think it’s quite probable that it is.

    Likewise, I don’t know if some contrails are actually being created deliberately, but I think it is quite likely that they are not.

    But really what I discuss here are much more specific points, like “can contrails persist longer than a few minutes”, and “were there persistent contrails before 1997?” (or 2007 in your case). For those questions the answers can be much more certain, due to the vast amount of evidence.

  74. Jakeability says:

    Progress! “I don’t know if some contrails are actually being created deliberately” now our positions seem to be converging. That was the first time I recall you considering this “possible”. Not likely, but possible. I am slightly more alarmed about even the possibility because I believe other things are now going on that I never would have imagined before. Hiding in plain site. For that reason, to me, ANYTHING is possible.
    Today, on the Oregon coast, I have noticed both planes that leave long persisting trails, and others that don’t, literally in the [apparent] same area, within 10-15 minutes of each other…now, why does this happen? Even if you have a legitimate reason, surely you must realize how this may cause folks to be curious.

  75. Yes, and it’s good to be curious. Many people have in fact asked about the “two planes, one contrail” phenomenon, and I’ve answered it many times. See #9 here:

    http://contrailscience.com/contrail-gaps-and-other-questions/

    Oregon gets a lot of flyover traffic. I presume your planes were all North-South? Check out this local air traffic map for North Bend/Coos Bay airport:

    http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KOTH

    Click on the map in the top right. You’ll see nearby planes. The first number on the second line next to each plane is the height in 100s of feet (so 380 is 38,000 feet). If this map is near you, you can use it to identify planes, and find their altitude. Different altitudes have different contrail producing characteristics. Most of the planes fly about 40 miles inland, but still quite visible from the coast.

  76. Jakeability says:

    Yes, almost all planes travel north-south. Some do appear to travel east-west, but rarely. Yesterday, there appeared to be a plane that made what looked like a spiral formation over the ocean, why might this be?….Referring back to global warming, assuming it is real, and man made. Why do these newer jet engines produce more contrails, than older ones. I suspect you’ll say these newer engines are more efficient, at least as far as their fuel comsumption is concerned. And since you agree these contrails are forming man made cirrus clouds, what do you think has a bigger impact on the climate, these clouds, or the amount of fuel conserved with these newer engines?…If global warming is anthropogenic, what accounts for the warming seen throughout our entire solar system? In other words, how can human activity on earth, account for climate changes on say..Mars?

  77. Martians? Seriously, it’s a complex subject with few definite answers. The sunspot theory does not have many supporters (or any real evidence), and the fluctuations on Mars can be explained by small alterations in the planet’s orbit and tilt. See:

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming_2.html

    The spiral formation over the ocean could be a training flight, a research flight, or a military flight. Or just someone having fun. I’ve flow spiral formations over the ocean when taking flying lessons.

    The more efficient an engine is, the more water it produces, as more of the fuel is burnt. But contrail formation is also related to a complex set of factors which resolve to a “Contrail Factor”, which alters the likelihood of contrail persistence. Modern engines are “high-bypass”, and have a higher contrail factor because of this. See:

    http://tinyurl.com/59zj6z

    I don’t know what has a bigger impact. Contrail clouds only impact the climate for the few hours they exist. Carbon emissions last much longer in the atmosphere, and the effect is felt on a much longer term basis. So it’s hard to quantify.

  78. JazzRoc says:

    The 300 million tons of aviation kerosene burnt annually makes up just 3% of the world total anthropogenic combustion, and hence makes up only a thirtieth part of global warming and dimming.

    In general, it is CARBON DIOXIDE that contributes to global warming and PARTICULATES and WATER that contribute to global dimming.

    So there is a risk that as we clean up our combustion activities we will INTENSIFY global warming.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm4QdNXhAd0

    But aviation plays only a THREE PER CENT part in all of this.

    And maybe this is a solution to global warming:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg7J8P-uXqM

  79. Just to clarify, when I said:

    I don’t know what has a bigger impact. Contrail clouds only impact the climate for the few hours they exist. Carbon emissions last much longer in the atmosphere, and the effect is felt on a much longer term basis. So it’s hard to quantify.

    I was referring to the carbon emissions from aviation alone, the 3%. I’ve seen suggestions that the benefits of eliminating contrails by flying at different altitudes would be offset by the greater carbon emissions produced by these altitude changes. But there were no figures to back that up.

    Also, calculatioin of the effect of contrails on global temperature measurements seem to vary quite a lot. The early assertions of the 9/11 effect have since been greatly scaled back by other scientists.

    It’s hard to experiment with the entire planet. The salt spraying ships does seem like a plausible idea though, maybe in a few decades.

  80. Jakeability says:

    There is one key factor you are unable, or unwilling to comprehend constantly. The global shadow government. This is THE most prominent factor. Most of your information on both suspected chemtrail and suspected man made global warming, comes from government, or government related studies. Do you realize our media is filtered and controlled? And have you seen any of the opposing independent studies against man made global warming? There are many…Three more questions; What is the purpose of the weather modification laws passed, and how many companies produce most of the jet fuel produced for the airline industry?…Seriously, do you believe there is a global shadow government? If not, try to prove it.

  81. The existence or otherwise of a shadow government is entirely besides the point. Any nefarious intent behind weather modification laws if also besides the point. Even if we assume the world is being run by evil men who pass laws solely for their own benefit, then that’s still besides the point.

    The point is that there is no evidence at all that the persistent trails that people keep saying are “chemtrails” are anything other than normal contrails, as have been observed for over 50 years.

    Stick to the point here Jakeability; what is the evidence that the trails are not contrails? What? Even assuming everything else you believe, what’s the evidence for “chemtrails?”

  82. Jakeability says:

    I understand that this blog is specifically for “chem/contrails”, but can’t we have a little fun and endulge in the bigger picture…As far as the constant referrance to shadow governments…anyone who believes in the supposed chemtrails, are also curious about whom may be doing this. This is why this subject IS relevant. What about my other question about airliner fuel? And was that your only answer to the weather modification legislation?

  83. I’m gald you understand I’d like to keep on the topic of trails left behind aircraft.

    What was the question about fuel? I thought I’d addressed that.

    What weather modification legislation specifically?

  84. JazzRoc says:

    Jakeability

    And have you seen any of the opposing independent studies against man made global warming? There are many…

    There are SOME.

    However, the status of these thinktanks doesn’t match up in any way to the American Association for the Advancement of Science, US National Academy of Sciences, and the USCAP (for goodness’ sake!), ALL OF WHICH have said a couple of years ago now that: a) the world is DEFINITELY warming b) the warming is happening as a DIRECT consequence of Mankind’s activities putting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, and c) action taken immediately by EVERYONE to reduce ALL CO2 EMISSIONS will be a lot more effective in avoiding abrupt climate change NOW than desperate (and maybe inadequate) remedial action taken later.

    Bearing in mind Man’s intrinsic and historic inability to acknowledge subtle and stealthy increases in THREAT, and our world’s huge store of invisible thresholds and “tipping points”, and massive inertia, Global Warming puts “chemtrails” in the shade. (Perhaps you should pack this in, Uncinus! – only joking!)

    What matter that the “NWO” rules the world, if the sea level has risen ten metres, no ships can sail, no aircraft fly, tornadoes are daily events and hurricanes weekly events, crops no longer grow, the Amazon burns down, and then ten thousand billion tons of methane (your ULTIMATE global warmer) is released from the oceans?

  85. Jakeability says:

    Are you unaware of the weather modification laws? Oregon has many. And as far as the jet fuel question. How many companies produce most of the jet fuel for the airline industry? This question is important, because any time you have consolidation, or centralization of any particular resourse, problems ALWAYS follow. Look at our news media, or the oil companies….VERY corrupt. Why? Lack of competition. So if three or four different companies [which have interlocking boards and directors] produce most or all of the jet fuel, this would be a problem when you theorize about additives, chemical or otherwise. And again, have you seen any of the opposing theories to “man made” global warming besides the sun spot theories?….Such as ‘The global warming swindle’?

  86. I’m aware that there are weather modification laws. You asked what their purpose was, and I asked which one were you referring to. I’ll assume you mean Oregon Chapter 558 unless you say otherwise.

    The purpose of chapter 558 is included in the law itself:
    http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/558.html

    558.020 Purpose of ORS 558.010 to 558.140. The purpose of ORS 558.010 to 558.140 is to promote the public health, safety and welfare by providing for the licensing, regulation and control of interference by artificial means with the natural precipitation of rain, snow, hail, moisture or water in any form contained in the atmosphere. [1953 c.654 §2]

    558.030 Artificial weather modification prohibited without license. No person, without securing a license from the State Department of Agriculture, shall cause or attempt to cause by artificial means condensation or precipitation of rain, snow, hail, moisture or water in any form contained in the atmosphere, or shall prevent or attempt to prevent by artificial means the natural condensation or precipitation of rain, snow, hail, moisture or water in any form contained in the atmosphere. [1953 c.654 §3]

    That seems perfectly clear – the law allows issuing of licenses for altering precipitation, and prohibits doing it without a license. So what exactly is your problem?

    I still don’t understand what your question is about jet fuel. Could you just give a direct question?

    And yes, I’ve seen many theories explaining global warming. But that’s not what this blog is about. It’s about trails in the sky. I’d appreciate it if you would try to stay on topic. I’m sure you are aware of many other places you can go to discuss global warming, so feel free to take it there – unless you want to discuss the involvement of contrails in global warming.

  87. Jakeability says:

    JazzRoz-leaving out the “NWO” of the equation is THE biggest factor, thus your reasoning is fundamentally flawed. All the sources you noted, were government funded studies. And so if the government is controlled by the very people suspected of dreaming up this hoax, how credible are they? What will global carbon taxes do to developing third world countries, let alone ours and other industrialized nations? It will destroy them, perpetuating their circumstances. Nobody disagrees we experienced a brief, but definite warming period. It is the cause that is being discussed. You suppose it is man made, I disagree. This IS an open question among non-govermental scientists and institutions. By believing these government studies, you are promoting nationalism, not patriotism. Our government is owned by a global shadow government. They are intentionally inflating our economy [as evidenced by the recent banker takeover bill known as the bailout] for the pupose of deflation. Along with carbon taxes, forcing people to accept a lower and lower living standard, eliminating third world populations, all along increasing consolidation and centralization so that when the population wakes up and realizes they’ve been scammed, we won’t have the resources to take our planet back…..America’s founders said to love our country always, and our government when it deserves it. Our government hasn’t earned it in a LONG time.By questioning our government you are being patriotic.

  88. Please try to stay on topic if you want to post here. Jake, if you want to argue politics with Jazzroc, you can do it on his blog:

    http://jazzroc.wordpress.com/

    Any more non-contrail related discussion is subject to moderation.

  89. Jakeability says:

    Uncinus-when I attempt to get your theories on global warming [or is it climate change this week?] it IS related to chem/contrails. Just as your religion is relevant as to your ideas of the after life, and since the global warming movement is becoming a religous institution,.. whether or not you believe global warming is MAN MADE affects your ability to consider other possibilities concerning the intent of creating man made clouds….And my question about jet fuel was VERY specific, in fact I’ve only scrolled up here and copied the exact text of which you are perfectly capable;
    “how many companies produce most of the jet fuel produced for the airline industry?…”

    Seems fairly clear to me?..The reason I ask is because the fact that there are 4-5 major organizations who create, and own almost all the media in this country, allows them the ability to control content. Furthermore, there are 4-5 major organizations who produce almost all of the oil in the world, thereby allowing them to manipulate and detirmine price…If there are only a couple organizations who produce almost all of the jet fuel for the airline industry, they can determine content, which is relevant to the production and formation of chem/contrails.

  90. “how many companies produce most of the jet fuel produced for the airline industry?…”

    I’d assumed this was a rhetorical question, since you supplied the answer yourself. 4-5 sounds a bit low, but I’m willing to accept that if we can get contrails back into the discussion.

    Are you suggesting that it’s a change in the composition of jet fuel that is responsible for the increase in clouds cover caused by contrails?

    And what’s your problem with the weather laws?

  91. Jakeability says:

    I think it is DEFINITELY possible there has been a change in the composition of jet fuel…And I was only guessing there MAY be only a few companies providing the fuel, your answer, or lack of, confirmed what I had suspected..Hmmm..coincidence I guess.As far as the weather modification laws are concerned. The people of this country are not aware of these laws, or at least I certainly wasn’t. And so when you start noticing persistent chem/contrails in the sky, and follow that up with research, it seems highly coincidental there have been laws passed allowing weather modification. You would propose that I am a “conspiracy theorist”, while I consider you a “coincidence theorist”……Has any organization been publicly granted licenses for this type of “work”?….Oh and, I will try to keep this more on the chem/contrail discussion, thanks for the link to JazzRoc,…and just out of curiosity, is he a regular contributor to this blog also?

  92. The weather laws were not passed to allow weather modification. They were passed to RESTRICT weather modification. Before there was a law, then anyone could try to make it rain more. After the law, you now need a license. Cloud seeding weather control had been going on for sixty years:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding#History

    In fact, all weather modification legislation is in place to restrict and regulate weather modification. So how is this at all suspicious.

    You ask:

    Has any organization been publicly granted licenses for this type of “work”?

    Well, yes, obviously all the cloud seeders in Oregon are licensed. You know that this act was passed in 1953, right? And there was a federal weather control act, also in 1953:

    http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520-0477/55/7/pdf/i1520-0477-55-7-755.pdf

  93. JazzRoc says:

    Jakeability

    If there are only a couple organizations who produce almost all of the jet fuel for the airline industry, they can determine content, which is relevant to the production and formation of chem/contrails

    As far as I can recall (from my petrochemical experience), any particular fuel specification is just that – a specification – or recipe – which is quite open to public view.

    Any local petro site (whether independent or part of some large corporation) is equipped to make up that specification from its discrete components and convey it to the local airfield that requires it, thus minimizing shipping costs. It is quite normal for competitors to supply each other.

    I cannot see where your “conspiracy” idea can function within this. It just isn’t the way things work. WIKI specifies JP-8 fuel quite closely if you are curious.

    You are welcome to visit my blog, but give me a week as I must rearrange it right now, partly to make it more comment-friendly. Then you can fire away…

    Uncinus needs no help from me to manage this excellent site. Quite the reverse…

  94. Jakeability says:

    Uncinus-the more I look over your VAST amounts of information, and from your very prompt responses, I’m beginning again to wonder if this is your full time job,..and not just a time passing hobby for you. I am a 29 yr old dairy farm manager from Oregon, just trying to raise my four kids. I know alot of the topics I write about are very inconcievable,..I never would have believed any of this a year ago, and it is still hard to comprehend all of the ‘ins and outs’…It it similar to swimming, a person can sit down with you for hours, even days trying to explain to you HOW to swim, but in order to truly learn how to swim, you have to have the courage to jump in and see if the instruction worked for you. But you won’t know unless YOU decide to jump in….Understanding that there IS a shadow government has to come from within, it doesn’t require courage, but only curiosity. Take one afternoon and spend a few hours on this subject….
    I incorrectly referred to Oregon’s weather modification laws, I meant to refer to the Senate bill 1807. Another coincidence?
    Uncinus, seriously, whom do you suspect people think might be responsible for these supposed chemtrails. Even you, when you said; ” I don’t know if some contrails are actually being created deliberately, but I think it is quite likely that they are not.”

    Even you consider it a possibility. So in your own mind, say, hypothetically, if this IS going on, who would benefit from this?

  95. Jakeability says:

    Maybe this is the JP-8 fuel JazzRoc was referring to;

    http://tih.sagepub.com/cgi/content/short/23/10/617

  96. Jakeability says:

    Explain how this story is wrong..it’s very interesting.

    http://www.willthomas.net/chemtrails/Articles/Counting_Contrails.htm

  97. I incorrectly referred to Oregon’s weather modification laws, I meant to refer to the Senate bill 1807. Another coincidence?

    I really don’t understand what your problem is with weather modification legislation. Such legislation has been in the works since 1953, and was enacted in 1958 with Public Law 85-510, see:

    http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520-0477/55/7/pdf/i1520-0477-55-7-755.pdf

    What exactly do you find suspicious?

  98. Explain how this story is wrong..it’s very interesting.

    http://www.willthomas.net/chemtrails/Articles/Counting_Contrails.htm

    Perhaps you could quote a piece or two of it that you feel is especially correct, so I can address the most important parts of what is a long and detailed article that covers several points.

  99. Jakeability says:

    Uncinus-you are very intelligent…I am not going to point out the parts I feel are especially correct. Our conversation is not moving forward. As I noted before, flat earthers couldn’t imagine our planet being spherical without understanding the concept of gravity…it was impossible. The world we’re living in HAS been pulled over our eyes to prevent us from seeing the truth….Like the flat earthers, you are leaving THE most important factor out of your calculation. Without this variable, answers are much easier. Your caclulations and assertions as they relate to chem/contrails are 100% correct, and yet still imcomplete.
    Heres how you see the problem: 8+8=16 which is correct as the problem was given to you. But in reality, parts of the equation are different, and have been left out intentionally.
    Heres how I see the problem: 8x+8y=72….then I had to determine the values of x and y. Without these hidden factors, your answer is very different thus you underestimate the problem. I too am still trying to determine these variables, along the way I have failed many times, and my conclusions evolve constantly. You have helped me with this process. Thank you…You however will go about your life, carefree, never fully understanding the situation we’re in until it’s too late. Hopefully, one day, when you truly regain your curiosity, you will check on some of these seeds I’ve tried to plant in your imagination. Until then I will continue my work, alerting my fellow man to the reality of the world we’re REALLY living in..
    Thanks again Uncinus for your time.

  100. With respect Jakeability, I’ve been more that willing to accept for the sake of argument that there is a shadow government controlling the world, doping the Jet Fuel, and censoring the media. I’d not disputed any of that.

    However, what I’ve done is to ask you for evidence that “chemtrails” are anything other than persistent contrails. I really don’t think you came up with anything.

    Sure, go ahead and believe in the shadow government. But why believe in chemtrails specifically?

Comments are closed.