While the title of this post is “How to Debunk Chemtrails”, the actual debunking depends on what version of the theory needs debunking.
The most common version is simply that “normal” contrails should not persist, so the persistent trails must be “chemtrails”. The simplest way to debunk this is to note that all known books on clouds and weather say that contrails sometimes persist. As seen in this video:
With discussion and reference here:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunking-contrails-dont-persist-with-a-study-of-60-years-of-books-on-clouds.3201/
After that, there’s a variety of common claims and variations on those themes. The best approach is to debunk the individual claim (such as contrails only last a few seconds), rather than trying to debunk the entire theory.
I’ve tried to arrange each section in the order of most useful links first.
Contrails Through History
Theorists claim Contrails used to dissipate in a few seconds, minutes at most.
But they didn’t. There’s a huge amount of evidence (in addition to lots of people remembering persistent contrails). It dates back to 1918 and continues up to the present day.
Contrail photos through history – Fifty photos of persisting and spreading contrails from 1950 to 1995. Taken from people’s old photo albums, and old books. Also links to other similar collections.
Life Magazine Contrail Photos – Eleven photos that appeared in Life Magazine from 1940 to 1998 show persisting and spreading contrails.
WWII Contrails – A large collection of photos showing persisting and spreading contrails from WWII in the 1940s.
Pre WWII Contrails – The History of contrails dating back to 1918, with the first persistent spreading contrail observed in 1921
Some more WWII Contrails – A WWII contrail photo I found in an old photo album uploaded to Flickr.
Thirty Contrails, Forty Years Ago – An impressive photo of a sky full of contrails from before 1967.
Clouds before Planes – Cloud Studies 1905 – A 100-year-old book showing photos of clouds that some chemtrail enthusiasts think must be man-made.
Memphis Belle WWII Bomber Contrails – 1944 – A 1940s film that shows planes leaving contrails, including with gaps in them.
Fighter and Bomber Contails, 1940s – Video and photos of wartime contrails over London and the English countryside
Twilight Zone Contrails – Contrails show up in a 1959 episode of The Twilight Zone
Chemtrails were Contrails – A video of some old newspaper accounts of contrails.
Contrail Confusion is Nothing New – Accounts from the 1950s of people being confused by contrails – taking them to be something else.
Chemical Tests, Aluminum, Barium, Etc.
Theorist claim: Chemical tests reveal aluminum and barium have been sprayed
In reality, the tests all show normal levels of chemicals. They were often very badly performed (testing soil instead of water, and confusing the level, or using the wrong units of measurements).
What In The World Are They Spraying? – An explanation of the mistakes in the popular chemtrail video.
Barium Chemtrails on KSLA – A very popular “chemtrail” news story where the reporter gets his figures entirely wrong.
Chemtrail Non-science Air analysis from Phoenix that shows levels so high we’d all be dead. They did it wrong.
Chemical Analysis of Contrails – Clifford Carnicom claims high levels of some chemicals, but they actually show lower than normal levels.
Photos and Video used by chemtrail theorists
Theorists claim: Photos and videos show spray planes.
Reality: all the planes have been identified. Most have non-controversial uses, and the rest are demonstrable fakes.
“Chemtrail” Aircraft Photos – The inside and outside of various supposed “Chemtrail” planes. Explained.
Fake, Hoax, Chemtrail Videos – Some of the more obvious hoax videos.
Germans Admit They Used Düppel!
– A German news story about chaff interfering with weather radar is deliberately mistranslated.
History Channel, That’s Impossible, Weather Warfare & Chemtrails – a look as some of the claims on the Discover channel show on chemtrails.
Contrails In the Movies – A look at a couple of contrails in some animated movies.
About the Chemtrail theory
Theorist claim: Lots of people believe in chemtrails, and it’s mentioned in a government bill, so it must be true.
Reality: Not really. Lots of people believe in all kinds of things, and the mention in the bill was inserted by some UFO enthusiasts.
A brief history of “Chemtrails” – How it got started in 1997, who started it, and how it developed.
Chemtrail Myths – Five common myths about “chemtrails”
How many people believe in chemtrails? – just how popular is the theory? Not very.
Kucinich, Chemtrails and HR 2977 – The supposed outlawing of chemtrails. What really happened.
General Discussion of Chemtrails
Theorist claim: People don’t remember lots of contrails like this, so it must be new.
Reality: Many people DO remember. But most people still don’t pay any attention to contrails. You see things more when you are interested in them.
Hazy Memories of Blue Skies – What do people remember about contrails? It varies.
Where are all the Chemtrail Photos?
Chemtrails: The Best Evidence
People Don’t Notice Contrails
The amount of air traffic, grids, and contrail patterns
Theorist claim: grids and X patterns prove they can’t be contrails
Reality: grids and X’s are inevitable results of air traffic, and winds and weather conditions.
Britain From Above – Air Traffic
30 Years of Airline Travel
Contrail Grids are not Chemtrail Grids
There are a lot of jets in the air
Contrail Information
Theorists claim: “chemtrails” are not contrails, because contrails don’t act like that
Reality: Contrails sometimes persist and spread, it depends on the weather at 30,000 feet (and not on the ground)
Persisting and Spreading Contrails
Contrail Forecast
The opposite of contrails
Measuring the height of contrails
How Long do Contrails Last?
Contrail to Distrail
Contrail Simulations
Why do some planes leave long trails, but others don’t?
Chemtrail Plausibility Study
Why Planes Make Vapor Trails
Unusual contrails explained
Theorists claim: odd looking contrails prove they are not contrails.
Reality: all can be explained if you do a bit of research.
Hole Punch Clouds in Los Angeles
Contrail Gaps and other Questions
Broken Contrails
Contrails, Dark Lines, & “Chemtrails”
Contrail of the Day
Very Unusual Short Tapered Contrails
Early Contrails
Voodoo Contrails over Los Angeles
Contrails Above and Below
Racetrack Contrails
Short Sunlit Contrails Look Like UFOs
Aerodynamic and Rainbow Contrails
Identifying a Curved Contrail
Contrail Season in Los Angeles
Ground Level Contrails
The Los Angeles Mystery Missile Contrail, and similar
New Mystery Missile, Padre Island Texas. Debunked
Did Chemtrails Cause the Beebe Blackbird Deaths
Manu Ginobili’s Santa Monica Silver Surfer
Los Angeles Missile Contrail Explained in Pictures
Contrails are Usually Horizontal
A Problem of Perspective – New Year’s Eve Contrail
Other random stuff
Procrustean Science
Contrails and Chemtrails: The IFAQ
Volcano Clears the Skies of Contrails
AC-130 Flares and Chaff
A Very Unusual Contrail
Modern Contrail Confusion
Cirrus Uncinus and Contrails
Things are not as they seem
Data is that guy from Star trek http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/09/DataTNG.jpg/250px-DataTNG.jpg . I use what some call memory . Ever surf Mike ? In Florida ? Lots of Sky to look at Mike . Ill admit lots of people just dont look up . I guess with Iphones ect even more . Have a nice day 🙂
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/09/DataTNG.jpg/250px-DataTNG.jpg
Flippant, irrelevant, contains no verifiable evidence…..just more “because I say so”…why am I not surprised? 🙁
Oh so if someone writes it down it must be true ? I verify with my own eyes thats good for me . So when a bunch of kooks say man made climate change is real Your good with that ? Someone says salt is bad for you the 20 years later we find out that was a lie thats good for you ? Do you believe everything you read to be true ? Are you smart enough to come up with your own opinions or do you just go along with the flock ?
TCSW wrote:
“Oh so if someone writes it down it must be true ?”
I guess that is what you think, but personally I find corroborating evidence much more convincing than any number f people saying “I saw it”.
You verify what?
to know that Florida never used to have overcast develop in the afternoons you must have some historical data to compare to what you are seeing today.
the only kooks I know of in this “debate” are those that claim that they have all the knowledge that anyone requires because they want it to be so, and never mind anything that is measurable or verifiable.
You consistently refuse to provide any evidence beyond “because I say so”, in every forum I have encountered you. I think you probably suffer from solipism and don’t even realise it!
TCSW…. everybody is just asking you to consider the science.
If you are unwilling to do that, why are you here ?
If you disagree with the weak science we have…then you should present stronger science….not stronger opinions..
treasurecoastskywatch said:
“As you can see in todays photo the contrails spread pretty fast . When they launched the Space shuttle which is 60 miles North of here it dissipate within 10s of minutes .The contrails linger for hours and hours as they spread out causing the haze . Come on Mike you heard it all before ?”
Well, I’ve heard it before, but I have never seen it myself. That is, I have never seen the contrails lingering for hours and hours above the same place and spreading into the haze.
What I have seen are the persistent and spreading contrails, which moved across the sky with the wind. And, as they usually moved pretty fast (50-100 mph), in 2-3 hours these old contrails were blown away. Generally, they were forming in the front of the advancing weather front that brought the haze and/or cirrus clouds a few hours later, but, on several occasions, I’ve seen the persistent contrails behind the retreating wet weather, with the sky getting clear afterwards.
As I can see from the MODIS satellite images, the haze over Florida yesterday came from the Gulf with western wind. Compare the Terra image taken at 16:10 UTC:
http://lance-modis.eosdis.nasa.gov/imagery/subsets/?subset=AERONET_Key_Biscayne.2012156.terra.1km
with the Aqua image taken three hours later, at 19:25 UTC:
http://lance-modis.eosdis.nasa.gov/imagery/subsets/?subset=AERONET_Key_Biscayne.2012156.aqua.1km
See also the bigger picture of the Gulf area:
http://lance-modis.eosdis.nasa.gov/imagery/subsets/?subset=USA7.2012156
Yes Alexy Iv seen those its always before a front that it seems to be heavy . just amazing how the air traffic also increases at the same time ? It also pretty easy to spot the trails in the satellite photos .
Stupid Your job is to debunk , I see no one here proving anything . Even the top Modis picture just proves me right . at least Alexey put something of interest . Mike its pointless to even engage you go mind your sheep .
@treasurecoastskywatch
Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough. The haze you saw yesterday did not come from the contrails you saw earlier above Florida. It had formed above the Gulf and was brought to Florida by western wind. Even if there had been no flights (and therefore no contrails) in the morning, you would still have the same haze in the afternoon.
It’s interesting how the upper air winds vary though. Here in Los Angeles, the winds aloft are almost never below 50 mph, so contrails always move away. In other regions of the US they can sometimes have much slower winds, <10mph at 30,000 feet, which would create a different situation.
Uncinus said:
“In other regions of the US they can sometimes have much slower winds, <10mph at 30,000 feet, which would create a different situation."
But how rapidly (or slow) would the contrail spread at no wind and no wind shear? In the UK, I have noted such a condition only once. It was the racetrack contrail above Midlands on 16 January this year. It stayed practically at the same place and was spreading very slowly. Here is a photo of this contrail after five laps (or about two hours of the flight):
http://moorpeak.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/path-on-axe-edge-moor.html
Absolutely no wind is pretty much impossible. The presence of the contrail itself creates various currents in the air from convection and displacement. Even then, I doubt the upper air ever really gets in the sub 1 mph range – and certainly not over the full length of a multi-mile contrail.
But with super low wind, the largest component of dispersement is going to be vertical. This can be visually confusing, as it looks horizontal from the ground. It spread vertically because different sized crystals fall at different rates.
TCSW – if you don’t ever present any evidence then calling me a “sheep” because I have e4h temerity to point out that fact is just a poor attempt at censorship.
Adding insult to lack of evidence puts you firmly in the duped brigade.
Mike kook is also a insult ? Sheep was referring to New Zealand . why am i duped ? I still believe what I believe and you are failed to convince me otherwise meaning you failed debunking 101 .
Alexy as in other days it was the persistant contrails that caused the haze . The clouds did roll in but the haze was much higher in elevation .. You Tube time lapse Chemtrails plenty of vids out there showing exactly that . It is complete overcast today as well yes a lot of real cloud cover topped off with contrails
@treasurecoastskywatch
The haze rolled in just the same, probably even earlier than clouds. This is clear from comparison of the satellite images taken wit a three hour interval.
I’ve seen quite a few time lapse videos, but in all of them contrails moved across the sky with the oldest contrails eventually getting out of site. Give me a link to just one time lapse video where the contrails linger for hours and hours as they spread out causing the haze”.
The contrails “clear” the sky just as they “cause” the haze. It depends on the weather that follows the wind. I’ve seen this a few times here in the UK, when there was a hazy sky in the morning, so the passing planes were leaving persistent contrails, but in the afternoon the sky was clear and bright.
Geoengineering would turn blue skies whiter http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21873-geoengineering-would-turn-blue-skies-whiter.html
Geoengineering would turn blue skies whiter http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21873-geoengineering-would-turn-blue-skies-whiter.html
So, does that mean when the sky is whiter..it must be “geoengineering”and not contrails?!
Nope, contrails ALSO make the sky whiter..
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xlsuee_chemtrails-combien-de-nuages-voyez-vous_tech
Noble ? SRM is persistant contrails .
Bullshit…contrails are contrails and are unrelated to any solar management program.
Just because you read about it on conspiracy sites…doesn’t make it fact.
Joe,
The article you quoted about SRM didn’t say that such a program would leave white lines in the sky at all. It said that they expected it would turn the sky generally whiter altogether, everywhere, worldwide.
Ask any scientist. If such a program were taking place, the aerosol optical depth would change like it did after the Mt. Pinatubo eruption. I already tried to get you to read what I presented here:
http://metabunk.org/threads/111-Historical-Aerosol-Thickness-Debunks-quot-Chemtrails-are-Geoengineering-quot
Joe if you want to claim that SRM is curently underway, you simply MUST be able to counter the FACTS that show no such program is or has been underway, and that worldwide aerosol measurements by hundreds of scientists from diverse nations can and do replicate these results.
What do you say now, JOE?
For a second there I thought TCW might have actually posted some evidence – http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xlsuee_chemtrails-combien-de-nuages-voyez-vous_tech
But no – time lapse video of contrails in a sunny sky….no commentary, no explaination of why they are not contrails…..just more scaremongering ignorance.
The authors consider the temporal and spatial injection regime best
suited to attaining well-mixed sulphur particles of the correct size
distribution for geoengineering use. They conclude that spatial
distribution is helpful, but temporal distribution is unhelpful. I
personally would welcome list discussion on whether this conclusion is
seen as reliable, and additionally clarification of the processes
involved.
One thing which I personally am currently unclear on is the optimal
microscale mixing ratios required. Has anyone considered the effect
of a dense injection regime, e.g. a balloon or slurry pipe, versus a
distributed regime, e.g. an aircraft fleet? Heckendorn do not seem to
have addressed this issue at all in their paper.
It’s unclear to me whether the injection density on a scale of
10E1-10E4m would be significant in the formation of aerosols. I’m not
aware of any paper which considers this microscale mixing.
“Joe if you want to claim that SRM is curently underway, you simply MUST be able to counter the FACTS that show no such program is or has been underway, and that worldwide aerosol measurements by hundreds of scientists from diverse nations can and do replicate these results. “Say what ?
http://www.srmgi.org/ Noble I dont read about it on conspiracy sites ,
@treasurecoastskywatch
I have watched the video at the link you posted:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xlsuee_chemtrails-combien-de-nuages-voyez-vous_tech
The time lapse part in the beginning of this montage show a lot of contrails moving across the sky. Some of them are formed in the field of view, others come in from outside already well spread, but all are blown away by the wind. There are no lingering contrails which spread out causing the haze. Actually, there is no substantial haze that would produce a 22° halo or sun dog. And, because the sun is setting down during the lapse, it is already afternoon.
I could have drawn you a bigger picture, if there was more info on this video, in particular, on the date and place where it has been taken, the period of time it covers and, also, the camera model and setting.
That is a site about srm…the other post you made was a site that claimed that contrails are INTENTIONAL srm…I don’t deny that people are interested in srm…I deny that contrails have anything to do with it.
Again, I’m surprised that the distinction escapes you.
I am surprised you are surprised by that – look at his history!
I’m surprised you are surprised by that – you’ve seen enough of his posts!
Joe, this is the second time I have brought out the facts which show no evidence of SRM underway.
Twice you have chosen to ignore the FACTS. This shows that you cannot respond to these facts i any substantive way. I’m happy to see that you find yourself in that position, but am saddened that you seem to think that by ignoring these FACTS you can make them go away. It just doesn’t work that way, Joe. You and your cohorts can remain silent and try to ignore FACTS which debunk your speculations, but your silence tells all who examine the FACTS that your refusal means there is no disputing these FACTS.
But I’ll give you a third chance, since I’m a fair guy.
How do you dispute these facts?
http://metabunk.org/threads/111-Historical-Aerosol-Thickness-Debunks-quot-Chemtrails-are-Geoengineering-quot?p=5460&viewfull=1#post5460
ALEXEY “‘Actually, there is no substantial haze that would produce a 22° halo or sun dog. Wow thats strange because iv seen that at least 25 times this year alone ? includuding the other day http://treasurecoastskywatch.blogspot.com/2012/06/june-4th-2012.html
geoengineering http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcJ8Ix1_0R4&feature=player_embedded#!
Jay their is no evidence there is not .
David Keith says in the video above Geoengineering gives you God like powers ?? Mad Scientist ?
Alexey watch the Propaganda Piece from the BBC on contrails cirrus clouds and how they spread out over miles . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE1CeL6n7Ps
Jay the BBC propaganda piece says otherwise . Its says contrail cirrus cools the planet , So it proves that air traffic and contrails are in fact Solar Radiation Management or Geoengineering . The BBC doesnt Lie ? I seen the stories leaked out over the past year and a half . I know what they are doing . Too much liability to admit they are Geoengineering . This way if they screw up they cant be at fault .
treasurecoastskywatch said:
“ALEXEY “‘Actually, there is no substantial haze that would produce a 22° halo or sun dog. Wow thats strange because iv seen that at least 25 times this year alone ? includuding the other day http://treasurecoastskywatch.blogspot.com/2012/06/june-4th-2012.html”
I was taking about the dailymotion movie that you linked to. It shows a lot of contrails moving across the sky, but there is no a 22° halo around the sun. This means that there was no substantial haze at the time in that place.
In your place, there was such a haze on June 4th, but it had not been produced by the spreading contrails you saw earlier. Those contrails had gone with the wind. The haze came from the Gulf, where it had formed earlier in the day, possibly even before you saw the contrails.
treasurecoastskywatch said:
“Alexey watch the Propaganda Piece from the BBC on contrails cirrus clouds and how they spread out over miles . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE1CeL6n7Ps”
So what? I live in the UK and have watched this piece before. Why do you call it a propaganda? It just states the known facts about contrails and highlights some results of a recent scientific research on the probable effect of contrails on climate.
And yes, contrails can spread out over miles at certain atmospheric conditions. But they usually do not linger above the same place for a long time. They are carried away by wind. To observe a long-term evolution of a contrail, one need to follow it on the ground or above.
Really you are wrong ALEXY . BBC is Like most of our media Propaganda ! That wouldnt explain the sundogs that have appeared days without incoming fronts . Living In The UK where the weather usually sucks I wouldnt expect you to understand . Are you also a paid shill ?
Joe,
Now I see. You have now come to understand that what you see are ordinary persistent contrails from air traffic increases. Welcome to the club, you have now fulfilled this thread’s purpose, which is to demonstrate how to debunk chemtrals.
However, you still insist that geoengineering is taking place, yet your only evidence for that claim is that you see persistent contrails.
There are problems that you have when you make the claim that Stratospheric Radiation Management(SRM) is taking place. Here are several.
1. The commercial air traffic you are seeing are not flying 30 miles into the stratosphere where an SRM program would be effective. Your own website debunks that claim:
http://treasurecoastskywatch.blogspot.com/2012/02/environment-geoengineering-bill-gates.html
2. Global air traffic is concentrated along customary flight paths which are ineffective at providing the global inter-stratospheric dispersal necessary to accomplish SRM.
http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/v1/n1/fig_tab/nclimate1068_F3.html
3 You don’t dispute the FACTS presented showing that global aerosol optical thickness has not increased as it would if SRM were taking place.
http://metabunk.org/threads/111-Historical-Aerosol-Thickness-Debunks-quot-Chemtrails-are-Geoengineering-quot?s=c00529d9bc2201bb744e51f454b73ad1&p=5460&viewfull=1#post5460
4. Even if your claim were that some local effect were intended, your area (Florida’s Treasure Coast) shows no decrease in average temperature.
http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=32422
Joe, these are just some of many obstacles you need address as you gainstatus as a chemtrails debunker ad move into a reality based on FACT and not simply speculations.
Re; Sundogs on days without approaching fronts
Joe,
It never ceases to amaze me that you folks spend hours and years making websites about clouds yet don’t take a college class in meteorology. In the fifteen years I’ve followed the subject, enough time for hundreds of students to obtain PhD’s in the atmospheric sciences, not one chemtrail believer has ever taken even a basic class in meteorology.
Melbourne’s FIT would be the place for you, Joe, to become a well educated debunker:
http://www.fit.edu/programs/ugrad/bs_meteorology
This educational opportnity is only 35 miles away.
Here is just one example of the meteorological information you will be able to use in debunking claims about sundogs being only associated with approaching frontal systems:
“What do cirrus tell about the weather?
Cirrus are often an indication of the leading edge of a warm front at altitude, especially if they are spreading out from the west or south-west sector, thickening into a denser sheet of cirrostratus. The approaching depression is some 24 to 36 hours away. Jet stream cirrus are often indicating an depression or occlusion from the western sector, some 12 to 36 hours away. However, cirrus can also be true fair weather clouds. If they appear irregular and patchy, slowly shifting from easterly directions, often dissolving, they are indicating increasing high pressure and dry, sunny and quiet weather.”
http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Cirrus.htm
====================
Indeed, Joe, I’m sure you will agree that jet stream cirrus are among the most beautiful of these clouds:
http://cloudappreciationsociety.org/jan07-cloud-of-the-month/
Jay thanks Its fun anyway . 🙂 even if we disagree I am always learning .
This claim about “paid shills” is just plain stupid. No one needs to pay anyone to post the facts as they are in every book on the subjects of aviation and atmospheric science, right from the beginning.
You people should be ashamed of yourselves for making such disgusting accusations based on your own ignorance.
Alexy noted that to follow a long term contrail yuo need to observe it from above the ground – and that was done for some contrails over het USA on 12 Sept 2011, when the lack of air traffic made it possible to follow some individual contrails – see http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/conference/Minnis.abs.ARAMS.02.pdf
I had some fun with checking the Florida skies on flickr photos taken on June 4, 2012.
Here, for example, several photos taken during the day in Boca Ciega, St. Petersburg, FL:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/viper60/archives/date-taken/2012/06/04/
(the time of each photo can be found in its Exif info).
Note that there are no apparent contrails, yet the haze has increased first, then clouds arrived.
And here is a nice picture of a 22° halo taken on the east coast, near treasurecoastskywatch:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bochambers/7158398997/
At least Im keeping you guys on your toes /
Alexy heres a vid from s Florida on the same day . Before the front arrived . I think its West Palm which is south of my location about 70 miles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b7iHOL0Gjk&feature=player_embedded#!
watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5z4a_eGs0&feature=related
So you are going to tell me this is caused by the plane hitting a ‘pocket’ of humid air. Wow, there must really be a difference in humidity between those two pockets! Honestly what is more likely? that, or a spray that has just been turned on? Open your eyes, trust your senses, and use your own judgement. My evidence is what I see. Not what the government and scientists tell me I am seeing.
The skies were not a white-soupy mess twenty years ago, and contrails did not stretch across the entire length of the sky. That is fact.
JohnnyC said:
“My evidence is what I see”
Unfortunately, human senses are easily fooled. Science is needed to overcome this problem by testing again and again, in a “cold” or sober way.
You will convince no bystander and certainly no skeptic if you insist on trusting your guts only.
JohnnyC said:
“Honestly what is more likely? that, or a spray that has just been turned on?”
With all the practical problems that make spraying chemicals from airliners very unlikely, and the measurements from weather balloons that say that there are humid layers, my choice is the first explanation.
See:
https://contrailscience.com/chemtrail-plausibility-study/
JohnnyC, I forgot to add this link regarding humidity measurements:
https://contrailscience.com/contrail-forecast/
JonnyC said:
“…contrails did not stretch across the entire length of the sky. That is fact.”
Please explain these photos from over 20 yrs ago then:
https://contrailscience.com/contrail-photos-through-history/
@treasurecoastskywatch
What else does the video at your last link add to a bigger picture of the Florida weather on June 4th, 2012, that I have painted for you with the satellite images and ground photos?
The wind from the Gulf brought a lot of humid air. Cirrus clouds and haze had spread over almost the entire state before low-altitude clouds arrived. In such conditions the long contrails are formed and spread naturally, and there are hundreds of commercial jet flights over Florida daily, so it is not surprising that there were so many contrails on the day. Depending on the location, there were plenty contrails in some places, fewer on none in others, but the haze was everywhere, regardless of contrails.
Alexy also happens on dry days without fronts .
Dry? Where?
Ground level?
Irrelevant.
“What about relative humidity with respect to ice? That needs to be above 100% for contrails to last “, Who said ground level ? do you think on a dry day the humidity is going to above 100% at 40,000 feet ?
Even if the air is moist enough, it might not be cold enough. At typical contrail-friendly altitudes, between about 28,000 and 40,000 feet, temperatures run from about –36 to –76 degrees. If the airplane leaves a long trail, you can assume that the air is not only cold but humid, allowing the ice crystals to persist. If the contrail stops, then starts up again, creating a broken line, chances are the airplane flew through a dry patch.
Sometimes an airplane leaves no contrail at all, or an extremely short one—an indication that the air at cruise altitude is probably dry. There must be enough water molecules in the air to condense and freeze—in other words, the relative humidity must be 100 percent or greater. In dry air, any ice crystals that form would immediately evaporate.
Your quotes are true, but what point are you trying to make.
Humidity at altitude frequently differs from humidity at ground level. Sometimes it is higher, sometimes it is lower. Sometimes it’s high enough for contrails to persist.
Often it’s patchy – which you can see by the random patchy way clouds form in one region, but not another – often very small regions.
Trying to tell Noble I understand its not what the humidity is at ground level but at the elevation of the aircraft that causes the contrail to form . Isnt it true the dirtier the exhaust the more ice crystals form causing a more persistant contrail ? Why are they now talking Black Carbon in diesel engines .,Is sulfur not as dirty ? of course Im saying their computer modeling ?
More ice crystals would cause a slightly LESS persistent contrail, as the crystals would be smaller.
You don’t need soot for a contrail. Burning pure hydrogen creates no soot, but makes contrails. The primary factor is the water.
To all the discussion participants who find it unlikely that humidity at higher altitudes can vary much from the values at ground levels: here is a so called “Skew-T Sounding” from last night.
It’s from a weather balloon launched in or close to Fort Lauderdale:
http://climate.cod.edu/data/raob/KMFL/skewt/KMFL.skewt.20120609.00.gif
The thick green line shows the “dew point” which is related to the humidity. The closer it comes to the thick red line (the actual temperature), the closer the air is to condensation (= relative humidity at 100 percent).
In this specific diagram, clouds are likely to exist or develop at about 1400m and 5700m. There is also a significant drop of RH at 9000m – or was it a malfunction of equipment?
Anyway, the variations of humidity in vertical direction are obvious. Keep in mind though that the horizontal variations can be significant as well, so this one balloon shows only a snapshot for an area with very small horizontal extension.
To the meteorologists hanging around here: I know my explanations are simplified. Step in if you like, preferably in “human readable” form. 🙂
“There is also a significant drop of RH at 9000m – or was it a malfunction of equipment?”
Isn’t it obvious? The weather balloon had past through a chemtrail at this altitude. The drop is either genuine (I’ve read somewhere that “chemtrails suck water out of atmosphere”), or it is due to a malfunction, caused by the HAARP transmission. Jus another great evidence for the existence of chemtrails. 🙂
Hopefully, the chemtrailers now would pay more attention to the real meteorological data and learn more about the subject on the way.
There is often natural condensation nuclei at altitude…..sometimes there isnt.
Perhaps more accurate to say there’s varying quantities of natural condensation nuclei. I’m not sure if there’s ever going to be absolutely zero.
Annother point can be made when looking at a “sounding” from 12 hours before the one I linked, taken at the very same place:
http://climate.cod.edu/data/raob/KMFL/skewt/KMFL.skewt.20120608.12.gif
There is hardly any correlation between the two, at least in the fine detail.
What we have are significant vertical, horizontal and time related variations.
Now imagine how incredibly difficult it is to give a valid contrail forecast, with so few balloon measurements in relation to area and time …
I never said absolutely zero….my point is that the amount varies.
Thanks for correcting me though.
JFDee…are you telling me that those who use sounding data from hours/miles away from when/where a trail appeared may be fooling themselves into thinking the conditions shouldn’t support persistent contrails?! Imagine that…
I figured you guys might like this unless one of you made it ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLB830CBC0A6E3E125&src_vid=t1_urVQRPWU&annotation_id=annotation_353555&v=obPhFtoU9bo&feature=iv&index=1
In some ways its true. The chemtrails hoax was designed to create mind-numbed robots willing to believe the most ridiculous stuff. I’ve tried time and time again on newbies, I tell them to look up in the sky and tell me what they see. They never come up with the idea that they are being sprayed with poison like cockroaches all by themselves. Someone always has to put the suggestion into their heads first. Some folks are more suggestible than others, and there is a s(xxxxr) born every minute it seems.
I wonder if you’d get much success if you pointed to a short trail, and said “remember when you were young, and the trails went all across the sky – now they are short. Why is that?” You get get a whole bunch of “inivisi-trails” believers.
Promo Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaIedYhMK3E
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Conference to Discuss if Geo-Engineers Are Playing God with Our Weather
June 15, 2012 Are Geo-Engineers playing God with our weather?
That question and many others will be pondered during three days of discussion centered on science, action plans and solutions at the Consciousness Beyond Chemtrails Conference to be held from August 17 – 19, 2012, at the historic 1250+ seat Ebell Theater in Los Angeles – a suitably grand venue for the largest gathering against Geo-Engineering & Chemtrails in history. The conference will feature the premiere of Michael Murphy’s new film, “Why in The World Are They Spraying?” The CBC conference is also a fundraiser for Morgellons Research, as all net proceeds will go to helping two leading groups acquire the equipment they need to further study this disease and not be dependent on outside lab testing.
The subject matter of this weekend long event will focus on an issue that is increasingly becoming a concern to many citizens – it’s called Geo-Engineering and is associated with what is commonly referred to as “Chemtrails.”
As scientists try to deal with some of the most crucial environmental issues of our time, many are embracing the idea of controlling the weather and some have even gone as far as to suggest that spraying heavy metals in the atmosphere may help reduce global warming. This “playing God” scenario is also being pushed by corporations and governments – all supposedly for the betterment of mankind.
In recent years, extremely elevated levels of aluminum, barium, strontium and other metallic elements have been found California , Oregon , Washington , Idaho and other regions of the northwestern U.S. and southwestern Canada . Could this be the result of such weather modification that is already taking place? And if so, why haven’t the citizens in these areas been told of such activities?
Is anyone concerned about the effects of these toxins on humans and animals –not to mention our food and water supplies?
Examining the global implications of such weather modifications at the Consciousness Beyond Chemtrails Conference will be a dynamic roster of speakers that include weather experts, scientists, whistleblowers, researchers, philosophers, filmmakers and journalists.
Special speakers include; Leuren Moret, Clifford Carnicom, Laura Eisenhower (great granddaughter of President Dwight D. Eisenhower), Jeffrey M Smith, Dane Wigington, Alfred Lambremont Webre, “Dr. Dream” Mark Peebler, Dr. Ilya Sandra Perlingieri, Dr. Wil Spencer, William Thomas, Allan Buckmann, Sofia Smallstorm, Kerry Cassidy, Deborah J. Whitman, Scott Stevens, Francis Mangels and filmmaker Michael Murphy whose latest film “Why in the World Are They Spraying” will make its world premiere at the conference. The emcee for the three day event will be Cary Harrison, host of The Harrison Show on Pacifica Radio’s KPFK 90.7FM.
All of these speakers – and more – will be at the Consciousness Beyond Chemtrails Conference to held at the Ebell Theater in Los Angeles on August 17-18, 2012. Advance ticket sales are available now online.
All net proceeds from the conference will benefit Morgellons research. Morgellons is a multi-symptom disease that has a number of symptoms such as; erupting skin lesions, sensations of crawling, biting on and under the skin, the appearance of blue, black or red fibers and granules beneath and/or extruding from the skin, fatigue, short-term memory loss, impaired thought processing and feelings of depression and isolation.
For more information on this three day event please visit; http://www.consciousnessbeyondchemtrails.com
Media Contact: Julia West Good Karma PR
Cell: (805) 477-8887 email: [email protected]
@treasurecoastskywatch
I wonder how much money have you personally donated to this campaign? Including your buying DVDs and other promo stuff?
0 dollars
@treasurecoastskywatch
Really zero dollars? You do not support the cause financially? Perhaps I should have asked you a different question: are you on their payroll?
No because I dont believe all of what they say , Morgellons caused by chemtrails ? I dont really buy that one . I will not support anything what is not proven . I can see what I believe is chemtrails or persistent contrails and theorize it is Geoengineering Thats as far as I will go . I dont make money or ask for money in what I do . That only discredits what you do . Not sure If Contrail Science gets paid for what they do . even thought I call them paid shills I dont really believe they are . Like I said Im only trying to debunk what I see nothing more . Went for my first flying lesson today , It was fantastic , Kinda of a old 1946 LUSCOMBE but it was a blast . http://treasurecoastskywatch.blogspot.com/2012/06/first-flight-fathers-day-2012.html
Hey, treasurecoastskywatch,
congrats to that first flight! So will you continue on the same plane?
I think tail wheelers are fun – if you are able see the taxiway properly …
It was hard to see the taxiway . Think id like to fly the same plane again . it was nice flying over the ocean with the window open . He said the plane was considered a light sport and doesnt require a pilots license or medical exams ?
It still requires a “sport pilot” license. That’s still a bunch of work (20 hours of in-plane training), but a lot less than a private pilot license (and no medical required). See:
http://flypatchfly.com/sport-pilot-or-private-pilot-whats-best-for-you/
congratulations on your first step to making a small fortune….assuming you are starting with a large one!! 🙂
It must be that time of year – I bought my 18 yr old son a 40 min trial flight over Wellington (New Zealand) for his birthday this year – & we managed to get a fine day last Sunday……I could barely get 2 words out of him afterwards (bloody kids!) but his mother tells me he thinks it was the greatest present every & he might even start taking lessons! But as a uni student he’ll have to earn his own money to do so & I’ll be making damned sure I’m not paying for them! lol
I think your right Unicus guess I got 19 more hours at least for that. I cant remember having so much fun .
Hey guys,
Contrails are your buffer…However, you really need to prove that Chemtrails do not exist. You can’t do it and never will be able to..It is not only mediocre but revealing if you don’t want have any interest or to realize that people are supposed to be able to trust what is in our air is what is said to be there just like in a restaurant as you certainly trust food preparation. Hey, alot of folks get food poisoning every year…are they stupid because they are not aware that the restaurant they are in may be slacking or do they trust in our State and other Government to keep them supposedly safe..THERE IS NO GUARANTEE…Shall I seek your GUARANTEE that some plane is not out there dumping chemicals right now…Hey..unrelated but as example…..in the Town of Paradise Valley Arizona in 2008 Motorola dumped 200,000 gallons of TCE into the Water System of Scottsdale and PV..they shut the water supply for the whole Town down…there still is a huge case goin on that one..but…just how the hell did it happen…gee…things do happen… similarly in may restaurants you cannot see what is going in your food, even when your in the restaurant..so smart and stupid people and non studied people all alike need to be able to trust that the environment and their fellow man is doing the right thing right ??? and as regards the Air we Breathe…you included, I think EVERYONE needs to insure some sick twisted Eugenicist is not playing with one of the very most important substances that keeps everyone alive…but no one is policing the skies for this well are they ?? please explain if you can…..and that is very dangerous and always will be..so since you guys are the brains, at least you think, then please explain the laws of the skies…please tell me and everyone else, are there any laws that prevent corporations private or otherwise from dumping substances in the sky above a certain altitude ?? Hey for real, please explain that one..enjoy the article..please try hard to debunk it…its your Job..
June 14, 2012 4:05 pm Posted by admin
“Everygreen” CIA Owned Airline: Dropping Poison On You And Your Family
Evergreen Air is a CIA front company for chemtrail operations within the US, based out of Marana Air Park near Tucson Arizona and McMinville Oregon, near Portland.
A major missing piece of a grand conspiracy has been targeted by a drunk pilot. In a small town 30 miles east of the Pacific Ocean in Oregon is the center of a major global operation. At a bar in McMinnville, Oregon, an inebriated pilot attempted to impress one of the pretty ladies with tales of his secret mission.
The pilot’s pathetic attempt to portray himself as a Sean Connery or Daniel Craig caused him to (ante up) his importance and spill the secrets of the CIA’s asset Evergreen International Aviation.
The slurred revelations confirmed suspicions that Evergreen (International Aviation) is part of the major crap dump on the planet. Chemtrails made up aluminum, barium and other ingredients contribute to respiratory ills and change the acidity of the soil.
Evergreen works from over a 100 bases and employees 4,500 people. Delford Smith privately owns the company. They admittedly “perform” for the CIA.
Evergreen was given a no contest bid that gave them all the facilities in Marana, Arizona that previously belonged to CIA’s Air America (Pinal Air Park, Arizona).
The security at the Pinal site is said to be as severe as that of Area 51. It is run as a military base where one lost pilot got an armed escort immediately off the operational base. The 10 year pilot said it was nothing like anything he has ever seen.
Evergreen International Aviation brags of their planes that have 7 times the capacity of other fire fighters. One can carry 20,000 galleons. Firefighting … Right … and next we will be told the chem trails are to prevent global warming as millions more are advancing to an early death.
Evergreen International Aviation has exemptions from the law that are advertised on their web site. They can fly anywhere and not stay on a designated route. Has CFR members paved the way? People like Philip Lader and John Wheeler III … they were in a position to do just that.
Evergreen’s public relations (propaganda) spokesman is handled by WPP run by Council on Foreign Relations member Philip Lader. He worked under the present head of the CIA … Leon Panetta as White House deputy of staff under Bill Clinton.
Philip Lader is an “inside” authority on international affairs and business. He is the non-executive Chairman of WPP Group, Senior Adviser to Morgan Stanley International, and a board member for think-tank RAND Corporation. He is also a trustee of UC Rusal (largest aluminum company in the world) the British Museum and St. Paul’s Cathedral Foundation. Ambassador Lader has addressed trans-Atlantic audiences from the U.N.’s General Assembly Hall to state chambers of commerce and local world affairs councils, is a member of Rockefeller’s Council on Foreign Relations.
Philip Lader (CFR) is a key player driving toward world government. In addition to running the Public Relations for Evergreen International Aviation … Lader is a director of UC Rusal, the largest Aluminum producer in the world located in Moscow, Sweden, Italy, and Australia. Nathaniel Rothschild is a big investor.
Eugenic operation of Chemtrails has had the assistance of Mitre a non-profit Corporation that manages the Federal Aviation Administration, Homeland Security, and IRS. (1) The IRS is part of the Federal Reserve which is a major transmission belt driving the conspiracy.
Philip Lader’s fellow Council on Foreign Relations member John P Wheeler III was recently dumped into a land fill in Wilmington, Delaware. Wheeler III was a consultant to Mitre the non profit corporation with jurisdictional advice over the Federal Aviation Administration’s flight patterns.
Was John P. Wheeler III to sentimental for the killing underway? And got murdered by the Company?
The CIA is the enforcement arm of the Council on Foreign Relations
Mitre is conveniently located in McLean,Virginia home of the CIA.
Trust no one.
Accept unverifiable unknown drunk pilots.
Except even. Ooops.
I always like the drunk pilot story.
“Hey girls, do you want a drink and maybe go on to a club? BTW I’m a pilot, I fly over the general population and spray deadly chemicals on them without their consent.
So how about that drink girls?”
Imhotech wrote:
“However, you really need to prove that Chemtrails do not exist. You can’t do it and never will be able to..”
Why should anyone have to prove chemtrails do not exist? This is an argument from ignorance – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance – a common tactic by people who cannot make their case to try to shift the burden of proof.
Adn as for never being able to prove that they do not – perhaps you aer right. But then again if htey did exist there would be some physical evidence for them – chemicals in the air that shouldnt’ be there, unlike aluminium nd barium. These would be identifiable, able to be gathered repeatedly and tested for. Or there would be aircraft equiped to “spray” this stuff, or fuel doctored with it, whatever it is, etc., etc.
And there is no such evidence.
So while you may never accept evidence of absence as any sort of proof I’m happy to do so.
Of course if you ever get any evidence that they do exist then ther will no longer be “evidence of absence” and you wuill have proved your case. Until then your argument from ignorance is just a common and repetitive chemmie fallacy.
I must be on the secret CIA payroll as well since I can fly anywhere and not stay on a designated route. Every plane must be a secret Evergreen plane then.
There are no such things as routes that you “have” to stay on. The only thing that Evergreen can do is operate in TFRs in the service of fighting fires. TFRs are always established around large fires.
Drunk pilots happen all the time though.
Imhotech asks how can we know that the stuff he believes in is NOT there.
Actually Imhpotech, that’s quite easy.
If the deadly poisons you believe in was in the sky then that would mean that it was actually in the sky. And chemtrail believers note that the trails they see STAY UP in the sky for a very long time and often spread in all directions
So anything flying through that same sky will be encountering such material and if there was a way of gathering up that trail filled air and collecting it then that would indicate what believers claim might be true.
Well there IS a common way of collecting this trail filled air.
It’s called “cabin pressurisation”.
Every passenger jet on earth uses cabin pressurisation to enable the passengers and crew to breathe at these high altitudes that are higher and COLDER than the peak of mount Everest.
Approx 80,000 passenger planes each day fly directly through the trail filled air and the engine compressor stages pump the air outside the plane that it is flying through directly into the cabin for pilots, crew and passengers to breathe.
The air is NOT FILTERED as it enters so there is nothing to stop “chemtrail material” from filling up any of the 80,000 jets flying each day.
But the fact is that passengers and crew are not dying of chemtrail poisoning nor are the maintenance crews having to shovel or sweep the cabins of aluminium or barium or anything else other than spilt food and clothing lint .
It’s not as if crews are trying to keep any threat to their health secret either . They actively sue their employers over phosphate based fumes that originate from hot hydraulic and engine oil on some inadequately maintained aircraft in what is known as “air-toxic syndrome” and they closely monitor air quality in the cabins.
So if your “chemtrails” were in the sky then they must ALSO be inside passenger jet cabins.
But they are NOT.
Mick You need to debunk the Irainians who believe exactly that .
“You need to debunk the Irainians who believe exactly that.”
Exactly what? The Iranians who – government official or else? AFAIK, very few western airlines fly in the Iranian airspace. I have flown from London to South and South-East Asia a few times myself, always bypassing this country, either north or south of it.
http://articlechase.com/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-Says-Europe-Stealing-Irans-Rain-With-Chemtrails.php
Original article (21st May 2011) , which does not say “chemtrails”:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/8527455/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-says-Europe-stealing-Irans-rain.html
He’s just talking about cloud seeding. Almost certainly it’s just anti-Western rhetoric designed to stir up the populace.
Apparently the evilness of rainmaking/cloudseeding stealing water from your neighbours doesn’t extend to Iranian efforts:
http://en.trend.az/news/society/1952808.html
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9007271214
http://cawcr.gov.au/bmrc/basic/old_events/hawr6/poster_session_1/KHATIBI_app_weather.pdf
Yes Unicus I agree it didnt say chemtrails but clearly was geoengineering . The most hits on my site next to the US are Russia and Ukraine ? Only a few from Iran . 🙂
So, cloud seeding has been renamed to “geoengineering” by conspiracy theorists? Interesting.
Why would chemtrail promoters stoop to falsifying a news article’s headline to advance their cause?
Because there is no ’cause’ without falsification.
Sad state of affairs…..