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How Long do Contrails Last?

Q) How long do contrails last?
A) According to all the books on clouds in the last 70 years, contrails last anywhere from less than a second, up to several hours. If depends on the atmospheric conditions at the altitude the plane is flying. It’s unrelated to the weather on the ground.

This is an oft-asked question. The answer is reasonably straightforward, but misunderstanding is common. To understand why a contrail can last as little as a fraction of a second, or as long as several hours, you need to understand what a contrail is, and how it forms.

Here’s another question, which has the same answer:

snowflakecvr2.jpgQ) How long does a snowflake last?

Why is this basically the same question? Because contrails are generally made of ice crystals. Jet exhaust contains a lot of water vapor (the chemical reaction actually produces more water than there was originally jet fuel), and when this gets shot out of the back of the engine at 2000MPH, it hits the frigid air (typically colder than -40 degrees), and the water vapor condenses and freezes, very quickly, into tiny ice crystals, just like snowflakes.

So why do these ice crystals sometimes stay around for a long time, and sometimes vanish in seconds? The temperature is well below freezing, so they can’t melt, can they? This is puzzling because it involves something that most people know nothing about “sublimation“.

Sublimation is when a substance (in this case, water), goes directly from being solid to being vapor (a gas), without actually melting into a liquid. It’s like evaporation, except instead of a liquid evaporating, it’s a solid (ice). If the air is dry (i.e. there is little water vapor in it), then the ice crystals will quickly sublimate into vapor, and the trail will vanish quickly.

However, if the air already has a lot of water vapor in it, then the ice will sublimate slower, and the trail will last longer.

If the air has so much water vapor in it already that it can’t hold any more (i.e. it’s “supersaturated”), then the ice crystals can’t sublimate, and so the contrail will stay around for a long time. The ice crystals might even attract water from the air, if there is enough, and the contrail will get thicker. Winds might make the contrail spread out to even cover the whole sky.

The above is a simplification, as other factors like temperature, pressure, and sunlight have an effect. But it explains the basic reasons why some trails last only a few seconds, and some can last for hours, and spread out to cover the sky.

Finally, there is one more way of asking the question:

Q) How long do clouds last?

This is the same question because contrails are clouds. Contrails are physically very similar to cirrus clouds (except they are long and thin), and so they act almost exactly the same. You see cirrus clouds that last for hours, so why not contrails?

References – note the dates

“A Color Guide to clouds” from Richard Scorer & Harry Wexler, 1963

1972: Richard Scorer – “Cloud of the worlds”

558 thoughts on “How Long do Contrails Last?

  1. MikeC says:

    Atheism relateds to non-belief in a god. Achemtrailist would be more appropriate – non-belief in chemtrails.

    If you did find proof then posting it to various sites would be a good start – by all means spread real evidence around.

    but please be sure that it is real before you do so – on these pages you will find many examples of “evidence” that wasn’t!

  2. bbrraadddddd says:

    I would like to know how a jet engine can make more water than originally was jet fuel? It sounds like alchemy to me. Or does it turn water already in the air into ice crystals?

  3. There is no water in jet fuel. It’s the hydrogen in the fuel combining with oxygen in the air that makes water. Part of the chemical reaction of combustion.

  4. MikeC says:

    Jet fuel is a mixture of hydrocarbons, as are petrol & diesel.

    hydrocarbons have generally the formula CxH(2x+2) – ie they have “x” number of Carbona atoms, and twice as as many Hydrogen as Carbon, + 2 more Hydrogen over that.

    When they combust with Oxygen the Carbon forms carbon compounds – CO2 (Carbon dioxide) and CO(Carbon monoxide). Similarly the Hydrogen forms Hydroben compounds with Oxygen – of which there is 1 – H2O – ie water.

    For example Methane (CH4) combusts like this: CH4 + 2 O2 → CO2 + 2 H2O + energy

    For a more complex molecule in the kerosene range (dodecane) it is C12H26 + 37/2 O2 → 12 CO2 + 13 H2O

  5. Alexey says:

    Tomsk,

    what stuff are you talking about?

    I see nothing unusual in this video: clouds in the sky, typical sunset, dust particles and cobweb strings illuminated by sunlight etc. Despite multiple assertions, there is no actual proof that these are not what they seem, nor that they are connected somehow. If I saw something like “rain of fibers”, I would try to collect enough sample for analysis by laying sheets of plastic film or similar on the ground, and would record the process of its accumulation in evidence.

  6. tomsk says:

    oh silly me LOL of course they are spider webs move along folks nothing to see here

  7. eyeswideopen2c says:

    Former FBI Chief Ted Gunderson Says Chemtrail Death Dumps Must Be Stopped.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJDKUsD-4J8&feature=related

    Wake up people

  8. Unfortunately he offers no evidence that they are actually happening.

  9. Jay Reynolds says:

    eyeswideopen,
    Many years since I first saw you posting over at CTC. You are one of the few that stuck around over there, while thousands moved on with their lives. What ever happened to Thermit the founder, I see he hasn’t posted at his own website for several years. What happened?

  10. brad says:

    why do planes that leave trails make u turns in the sky and circles and sharp turns? ascending descending really sharply? last i knew a commercial jet could not do that.

  11. brad says:

    also how come the “chemtrail” planes NEVER even when extremely low to the ground make sounds? then 10 mins later a airplane that is 3x as high you can hear before you can even see. i have had chemtrail planes 10k feet up right above me and never notived. although i would be able to see the detail like the engines at this height,..

  12. Probably the “ascending and descending reall sharply” is an illusion, based on the way you are looking at the contrail.

    Have a look at some power lines, they are horizontal, but cross the sky in all kind of angles.

    Commercial jets are perfectly capable of making turns. But not all jets in the sky are commercial jets. And you have to remember that what seems to be a “sharp” turn from the ground is actually over several miles.

    I doubt you’ve been seeing contrails at 10K feet, unless you live in the far north. The noise a plane makes is proportional to the power it uses. Some low flying planes might be descending to a nearby airport, and would use very little power.

  13. brad says:

    the ascending descending may in fact be a illusion. but the trails at around 10-15k feet definately happen. and im from boston is that what you mean north? also the planes i see doing the trails on planefinder and such basically say that these have no flight numbers or paths. and im pretty far from boston more north of boston. these planes fly together. side by side. a couple thousand feet apart. they are always white or gray planes. i have a 70x zoom camera and none of the trail planes ive recorded have windows. why is that? plus patents for chemtrails and haarp using chemtrails as a manmade tiltable mirror to reflect haarp waves? goverment patents. and then goverement saying they dont do weather modification where weather modification inc says there doing like 30 weather mod projects throught the usa.

  14. brad says:

    and also im wondering why i only see chemtrails / persistant contrails days before rain. like up to 4 days ahead , up until the storms.

  15. Could you post some photos of these low altitude windowless planes in pairs leaving trails?

    And how did you calculate the altitude?

    Contrails precede rain because of the change in the weather. Like with cirrus clouds, you can use the appearance of contrails as an indicator in predicting the weather.

  16. and then goverement saying they dont do weather modification where weather modification inc says there doing like 30 weather mod projects throught the usa.

    Weather modification Inc is a private company. But of course cloud seeding has been done for decades. The federal government, as far as I know, has not such programs. But plenty of local governments do.

  17. Spelljammer says:

    @brad, The HARP virtual mirror idea would mean using plasma…electron flow through a gas. It takes 3 points minimum to define a plane in space. So a virtual mirror of plasma would need at least 3 electrodes in the ionosphere and each one connected by big cables to the ground. Their height would have to be adjustable between 50 km and up to 1000 km depending on virtual mirror size and the angle you need. I don’t know how these electrodes would “float” in the ionosphere, magic maybe?

    I know you will say they broadcast the power using Tesla’s ideas, but any plasma means light. There would be evidence of this happening. Not to mention, there is no way to stop a broadcasted power at a certain point in space…more magical thinking.

    Aluminum in samples,

    Also, most of the testing that shows Aluminum was done as soil samples or water runoff samples. Alluminum is already in the soil but it has an oxide layer on it. Acid rain dissolves the oxide layer and allows for it to become water soluble. This means it can be absorbed by plants if it is touching the root system, or it will joint the water as it flows downhill. So, acid rain is the reason for these high aluminum levels in the soil samples and in root samples and in run off.

    The rain samples I’ve seen were in Mt. Shasta. That is still volvanic with periodic venting on the mountain. The super heated water containing sulphuric acid and carbonic acid eat the oxide layer off aluminum, barium, uranium, etc. and dissolve it as it heads to the surface. When it hits the air it turns to steam and the airborne contaminants are dispersed in the wind. They show up in rain samples. This same thing happens near coal plants.

    thanks,
    Spelljammer

  18. Jay Reynolds says:

    Spelljammer,
    You need to look at the extensive work we’ve been doing at metabunk in regards to these samples:
    http://metabunk.org/threads/135-Chemical-Composition-of-rain-and-snow

    http://metabunk.org/threads/137-Shasta-Snow-and-Water-Aluminum-Tests.

    General link to chemtrails forum:
    http://metabunk.org/forums/9-Chemtrails

    The acid rain effects is mainly a some high altitude lakes in the US Northeast which don’t have much naturally occurring buffering capacity. Most other surface water sources have no problems with acidity because the pH is lowered when it comes in contact with most soils.

    Mt. Shasta is around 16% aluminum oxide, so it wasn’t surprising that they found aluminum in the soil there, or most anywhere as Al averages 5-6% of earth’s crust. The test they made probably found both aluminum oxide and aluminum silicates which make up clay dust. Their rain samples were actually below average at 484 micrograms/liter, in 1967 scientists measured the average at 800 micrograms/liter.

    I ws only able to find references to small vents on Mt. Shasta, and no pictures, they said they were easy to overlook so I’m no sure those have relevance, especially since the averageof all the rain samples was lower than known averages.

    The pond samples were just measuring either sludge on the bottom, which is what they wanted, they said it will “Freak You Out”, if you follow their instructions:
    http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/html/watertesting.html

    So, have a look at the above links to see the whole story.

  19. Spelljammer says:

    Great stuff, Jay.

    That 1967 study appears to be for S.E Ontario. Ontario has lots of coal power plants. 800micrograms/liter of Al sounds way above normal for North America. I doubt that that number represented the normal amounts of aluminum in the rainfall back in 1967. I would guess that that particular test was heavily influenced by coal plants to the west.

    I also think the Shasta samples were influenced by the dust in the snow as well as volcanic activity.
    (from wikipedia – Mount Shasta can release volcanic ash, pyroclastic flows or dacite and andesite lava. Its deposits can be detected under nearby small towns totaling 20,000 in population. Mount Shasta has an explosive, eruptive history. There are fumaroles on the mountain, which show that Mount Shasta is still alive.)

    I agree about the acid rain and most soils counteracting the acid. I guess my point was that each time that happens, some buffering agents get washed away. Acid rain is a very scary concept that people have forgotten about. http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/196soil.html

    Also, in that movie WITWATS, they showed trees with aluminum poisoning in Hawaii. They tried to blame Monsanto or geoenginerring. The more obvious is acid rain due to increased global pollution, volcanic activity in Hawaii, and increased air traffic. All make more acid rain. Sure the soil may still be able to buffer it, but it happens deeper than it used to. And the first few inches of soil may not have any more buffering capability. Thus the start of aluminum root poisoning in the trees and other plants.

    Anyway, great job on your data. I havn’t seen this much good info in one place in …well forever I guess.
    thanks,
    Spelljammer

  20. Jay Reynolds says:

    WITWATS didn’t establish causality for the coconut trees shown in decline, aluminum or otherwise.
    The problems with coconut trees in Maui are fairly well described already:
    http://metabunk.org/threads/71-Michael-J.-Murphy-s-most-recent-desperation?p=1385&viewfull=1#post1385

    One thing to note about the aluminum results found in 1967 Ontario rainfall is that the researchers there did filter particulates out of the rain before testing, while the Shasta bunch did not filter particulates from their samples before having them analyzed. The Ontario paper mentions this specifically.

  21. Jay Reynolds says:

    Speaking of alumium and acidity, isn’t it telling of the sort of ‘scientist’ Francis Mangels is said to be when he complains of finding aluminum in the soil around Mt.Shasta, which has been there for a million years, then also complains about how his garden soil isn’t acid enough?

    The reason why his garden has become less acidic, however, isn’t due to anything falling from the sky. It was his own addition of compost over the years which buffered the natural acidity, and the more compost he puts on, the more resistant his soil will become to any further change in pH up or down!
    see:
    http://metabunk.org/threads/154-The-Claims-of-Francis-Mangels-a-Factual-Examination

  22. kuldip says:

    Well I.have real evidence of chemical spraying. Go to my YouTube channel Dips018 and watch my video on it. The pilot explains it and shows.his plane made to do it.

  23. tryblinking says:

    I looked through your channel; do you mean this video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laLKgSanPJ4

    The pilot is explaining clearly about modern cloud seeding, what it is and why it’s done. These principles of cloud seeding have been applied publicly to affect the local weather for the last century. This is done inside rain clouds in the lower atmosphere with small planes, and looks nothing like condensation trails.

    Also, your KC-10 video shows widely understood aerodynamic contrails, and is explained fully here:
    http://contrailscience.com/fake-hoax-chemtrail-videos/

  24. JFDee says:

    kuldip,
    which of the 297 videos are you referring to?

  25. kuldip says:

    JFDee lol sorry remembered after that I forgot to write the name of the video. Its called WEATHER MODIFICATION. also have a look through as I got another video which was actually filmed by a pilot. Who is filming th3 plane below him and you see the chemtrails. Also some other videos you’ll see titled chemtrails over London. Share the weather modification video with as many people as possible.

  26. kuldip says:

    Cloud seeding is more or less the same thing. If you watch the full documentary which I believe came on National Geographical channel they show it leaving the trails and they look exactly the same as chemtrails (contrails) anyway everyone seems to have their own opinion on it so I leave it at that.

  27. Cloud seeding is the same thing as what?

    You know that cloud seeding has been done for 50+ years, with no secrecy at all. It also looks nothing like long white lines in the sky. It’s entirely unrelated to the chemtrail theory.

  28. kuldip says:

    One of the purposes of the chemtrails.is.the block out the Sun because that idiot Al Gore say it will help cool the earth but his climate change.theory is a load of BS as LORD CHRISTOPHER MONCKTON has proved many times and still keeps on doing so. The seeding has.been goin on since.the 50’s but they also use these planes to spray the chemtrails and other theories that chemicals are mixed into jet fuel is very possible too. As everyone’s seen it when two planes fly on the same.path and one leaves trails and the other nothing at all. The.best.documentary to watch.is.WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE THEY SPRAYING? its on YouTube and they got evidence and proof of chemicals falling out the sky its a.must watch.

  29. That film contains many errors. See:

    http://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/

    Two planes can leave different trails for various reasons. Usually different altitude. See:

    http://contrailscience.com/why-do-some-planes-leave-long-trails-but-others-dont/

  30. kuldip says:

    OK whatever you say. But one thing everyone should watch a documentary called WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE THEY SPRAYING? its on YouTube so please watch it. It will make you think again seriously. A must watch. Also watch interviews of LORD CHRISTOPHER MONCKTON he’s proper clued up. He tell people how Climate change is a load of BS. just a money making scheme for people like Al Gore and the government.

  31. I don’t think you read my comment. Again, that film has been debunked. See:

    http://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/

  32. I don’t think you read my comment. Again, that film has been debunked. See:

    http://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/

    And regarding Monckton, check:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbW-aHvjOgM

  33. kuldip says:

    OK.checked out the debunking of both you posted. For the first one on WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE THEY SPRAYING?some claim sound right but from what I’ve found out something still ain’t right and still believe that something is being sprayed. But the LORD MONCKTON debunking is absolutely quality and now have for sure 100% changed my mind about him as the guy who debunked it did a great job and showed facts and documents to back himself up so I can’t disagree with him at all but agree with him and now am wondering what MONCKTON is up to. Thanks for the information mate. We will never agree on everything but have on one thing at least. Thanks again.

  34. kuldip says:

    you prob guessed but My previous comment was for you UNCINUS. Nice one geeza.

  35. captfitch says:

    Sooooo kuldip…

    Has your entire view on global warming changed as well? Because that youtube debunking video not only debunkes lord monckton but also suports the theory that global warming is taking place. I guess what I’m getting at is it seems your views and beliefs are driven not by your own research but by that of a limited number of clearly one sided sources. Maybe before you so firmly hold on to the idea of chemtrails you should spend some time to educate your self. And you’re not alloweded to primarily use youtube.

  36. tryblinking says:

    Really good video. I’ll have to watch more of his.

  37. tj rocheleau says:

    This is ridiculous. You all took science in grade school and learned the scientific method. If you are all so truly concerned then grab your kids’ science textbook and go find out for yourselves. If you have time to post and hoax then why not go perform your own backyard study of these atmospheric experiments (since they are falling on you somehow?) and come back with some sort of proof!

  38. JFDee says:

    kuldip, in the beginning of the video (and later on) you can see contrails. Nothing else.

    A contrail may stop, start, persist or spread out depending on the variable conditions that a plane will meet up there.
    I wonder where the video uploader trained his horribly confused judgement. It’s not even clear why he deems the “red bellied” jet a military aircraft …

    The following extended explanations about aluminum and dispersion are all based on the wrong assumption that there are two type of trails which can be identified just based on their ‘usual’ or ‘unusual’ behaviour.

    Again and again: if somebody tells you that normal contrails can and do not persist – that is a considerable amount of masculine bovine excrement. It’s hard to follow any further arguments from such a source.

  39. SR1419 says:

    Kuldip…

    I couldn’t get thru the entire video but at least the first 5 minutes has all been addressed before…

    The first part shows what appears to be a Southwest airlines jet…and yet claims its “military” – The author of the vid appears ignorant of basic science that allows multiple types of trails at different altitudes…

    http://contrailscience.com/why-do-some-planes-leave-long-trails-but-others-dont/

    The next plane is long ago debunked vid with an aerodynamic contrail….

    http://contrailscience.com/fake-hoax-chemtrail-videos/

    the next part with David Kieth because he vehemently denies anything actually taking place…

    I had to stop at Energy2008 as he is not worth my time…

  40. kuldip says:

    What do you guys make this video link below. Its from 2009 but very interesting I think.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbQhTnsAZHU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    Interesting article.

    http://www.carnicom.com/report2.htm

  41. MikeC says:

    well the Carnicom one is easy – there’s jsut enough fact in there to make it credible – eg Radio Frequency Mission Planner does actually exist.

    But they offer no actual evidence that “barium salts” that allow it to work over land are being sprayed at all – just a statement that it is happening. This is typical aof the chemtrail theory – a total inability to back up statements with meaningful evidence, and an inability to understand that this is a problem!!

    The first video seems to be about scalar waves – which is, of course, a contradiction in terms – if something is scalar then, as I understand it, it has no direction so cannot possibly have “waves”.

    For me the scalar weapons/waves meme is another conspiracy that is all about bandying big words around with no evidence.

  42. Jay Reynolds says:

    koolwhip,
    if you want to see the inside story that the barium people don’t want you to know about, read my accont of how barium got into chemtrails.
    http://metabunk.org/threads/210-How-did-barium-get-into-chemtrails
    It’s all documented so you can follow it for yourself and see how you’ve been ‘had’.
    I now because I was following them as they made up the whole myth.

    Let me know if you need further information, but also ask Carnicom and Grifith for yourself and watch them squirm and writhe yet never show you any real proof. What do you make of it?

  43. kuldip says:

    @jay I’ll have a look mate, thanks. Get back to soon as I’ve had a look at it.

  44. Jay Reynolds says:

    I should add that if enough barium were sprayed to produce ducting as claimed by Griffith & Co. it would play havoc with ordinary transmissions of radio and TV and probably would be visible on weather radar. It has never been shown to be the case. Epic fail by these hoaxers. As far as I know, the whole group abandoned Griffith and he has never come out with anything to back up what he claimed- ever.
    I still say, contact him for yourself and you will see, he will show you nothing other than what is publicly available on the internet. He had no inside information, just a BIG imagination.

  45. kuldip says:

    The great climate change swindle. Have you seen this yet? Even tho that other video showed Lord Monckton might be a phony I still believe that global warming,climate change is all abit over hyped than what’s really goiñg on and still believe in chemtrails. That’s just me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtevF4B4RtQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

  46. You should be careful of basing your conclusions on ANY slickly produced documentary. That one in particular has received extensive criticism for being misleading, including from some of the scientists who where tricked into appearing in it. For example, Carl Wunsch, who discussed the CO2 in the oceans:

    In the part of The Great Climate Change Swindle where I am describing the fact that the ocean tends to expel carbon dioxide where it is warm, and to absorb it where it is cold, my intent was to explain that warming the ocean could be dangerous—because it is such a gigantic reservoir of carbon. By its placement in the film, it appears that I am saying that since carbon dioxide exists in the ocean in such large quantities, human influence must not be very important—diametrically opposite to the point I was making—which is that global warming is both real and threatening.

    And Eigil Friis-Christensen, who talked about solar activity:

    We have concerns regarding the use of a graph featured in the documentary titled ‘Temp & Solar Activity 400 Years’. Firstly, we have reason to believe that parts of the graph were made up of fabricated data that were presented as genuine. The inclusion of the artificial data is both misleading and pointless. Secondly, although the narrator commentary during the presentation of the graph is consistent with the conclusions of the paper from which the figure originates, it incorrectly rules out a contribution by anthropogenic greenhouse gases to 20th century global warming

    I think several points were not explained in the way that I, as a scientist, would have explained them … it is obvious it’s not accurate

    Read more here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle

  47. debra hansen says:

    I live 30 miles away from the nearest Mc Donalds or any type of gas station… There is no way emissions from any type of vehicle are responsible for making me sick. Although, here in Nebraska we have what is called the “Junk Jaunt” which is 220 + miles of garage sales which I am a vendor. All that weekend the sky was full of these lingering Contrails. I have been sick ever since……………………..

  48. captfitch says:

    I would suggest that you contact the organizers for the event and see if anyone else became ill. If so you should immediatley notify someone.

  49. It’s not really an event, it’s a garage sale (car boot sale) over 300 miles.

    Personally I’ve found I get sick after events where I come into contact with a lot of people, like a conference, or flying somewhere. People generally get sick because they caught something off someone, or something they ate, not because of environmental factors.

    The “contrails make me sick” idea is a bit of an “idea of reference”. Why did only you get sick? Were they spraying the contrails just on you?

  50. Ross Marsden says:

    Yes, they spray right over my house; sometime right outside my back door.
    I saw them with my own eyes. When I look at them, it makes my eyes hurt, I get sore neck, and I start sneezing. These are common symptoms reported by many who are sprayed. It’s the chem in the chemtrails, y’know.
    😉

  51. Critical Thinker says:

    Ross, your symptoms are more consistent with staring at the sun than anything else. Yes, even the sneezing.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=looking-at-the-sun-can-trigger-a-sneeze

  52. Ross, I think you needed a bigger smiley 🙂

  53. Critical Thinker says:

    Heh, it’s hard to tell lately who is serious and who isn’t. That in itself is a telling commentary on this entire subject.

  54. Jay Reynolds says:

    I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve read a chemtrails believer say that “Everyone in town is sick”, only to check the paper to find there was a marathon or big athletic event where no one else showed any symptoms. For years, William Thomas claimed that “Hospitals are jammed”. Ia ctually think that claim did him quite a it of harm as it became clear that he was doing a “sky-is-falling” act.

  55. Rob says:

    Can you explain the patent which includes releasing aluminum oxide in the atmospher via areosol? Also, why have scientists concluded that the aluminum content in soil and water is at 35k-80k ppb and the law requiers investigation when aluminium levels reach 1k ppb but no investigation has been done? Also, why if I leave out a glass jar when it is raining and leave it out for the water to evaporate do I find specs of metalic matter dried up on the surfice? Why are the farmers’ crops dieng, and why are they having to buy gmo seeds that are resestent to aluminum oxide and borium(I am neighboors with a farmer who has too?) I rember seeing contrails as a kid, and they NEVER went from horizon to horizon. Also, they never overlaped forming complex patterns that form into rudimentry cloud cover. This is clearly geo-engineering; you can deny it all you want. As for I, believe nothing you hear, and little you see. Also, there are videos on youtube where military piolets are following planes and video tapping. The plane they follow was forming a “contrail” for about 1.5 minutes, then all of a sudden stopped without dropping altituted, only to start again minutes later.<===excuse my spelling, I went recieved a diploma from a public high school.

  56. Hi Rob, many of the answers you seek can be found by browsing this site. But specifically on

    Also, why have scientists concluded that the aluminum content in soil and water is at 35k-80k ppb and the law requiers investigation when aluminium levels reach 1k ppb but no investigation has been done?

    Aluminum content in soil and water are totally different things. It’s like measuring the sodium content in sea water and comparing it to the sodium content in salt. Unfortunately what happened there was that the “scientists” measured the aluminum in soil (or sludge – water with soil in it) but used the normal number for soil. So they were actually finding normal level of aluminum.

    The video you speak of was a joke. See:

    http://contrailscience.com/fake-hoax-chemtrail-videos/

  57. captfitch says:

    oh the hypocrisy!! Believe little that you see and in the same breath cite a youtube video?

  58. Sean says:

    I am the captain of a sailing yacht. Like other professional and racing yacht crew, when sailing we spend nearly all day and night staring at the sky. There are no trees or other obstacles to obscure the view, and nothing else to look at, If there is something up there the crew will notice it. It makes one vary aware of what is going in the atmosphere, things that most people wouldn’t normally notice.

    I remember the first time I did an Atlantic crossing 25 years ago, we sometimes used to use contrails to help with navigation. Often the contrails would last many hours so they were very handy to use as a reference point (To avoid having to always ;look down at the Compass or the GPS). Contrails do also seem to have many different shapes and forms, some can be quite unusual, as can many atmospheric conditions.

    I and my Ocean based colleagues who have talked together about this topic can definitely say Contrails have not changed in the last 25 years and that it isn’t necessary to use Chemtrails as a theory to explain the different types of Contrails. The best thing is to find a good meteorological book if one wants to explain meteorological curiosities.

  59. Jay Reynolds says:

    Rob, Sorry to state that you have been misinformed about the aluminum resistant seeds.

    There are no such seeds currently for sale, so its a mystery why you say your farmer friend has to buy them?

    The search for aluminum resistance in plants goes back 100 years, because much of the land in the tropics is extremely acidic and cannot be farmed as a result.
    Did you notice I said because of acidity?
    Why did I not say because of aluminum?
    The reason is that almost all soils on earth contain many tons of aluminum per acre, and always have, because aluminum makes up over 5% of the earth’s crust. The time when the aluminum becomes a problem is only when the soil is very acidic, as it is in much of the tropics.

    While some soils can have their acidity changed by adding lime or gypsum, some tropical soils are acidic deep underneath into the subsoil and the acidity cannot therefore be reduced by tilling in calcium. This soil is the only resource available for many millions in the tropics to grow their food.

    Researchers have always sought answers to this problem, and genetically modified plant varieties might possibly solve it. See this article for a graphic example of what these seeds might be capable of when they become available, which might take some years:

    http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Feb10/aaasKochian.html

    So, again, beware that whoever you have been getting your information from has been misinforming you, perhaps innocently, perhaps because they just don’t know, or perhaps they have an agenda. You should carefully check everything they have told you so far, beacsue they don’t seem to have a very good BS filter.

    If you find anything I have stated above to be incorrect, please let me know and I will correct it.

  60. Thanks Sean, that’s very interesting!

  61. me....... says:

    http://contrailscience.com/chemtrails-the-best-evidence/comment-page-2/ LOK AT THEIS FILM OF THE 70S and he remake …also i suggest ppl compare old films made anytime in the past and you wont find any this is lies ppllllll.

  62. me....... says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqv45utprWg&list=FLnsu3_1VwW0zRErTLrtHVQA&index=2&feature=plpp_video why did they change a 1970s movie background,,,and put these trails in them,,they think we cant remember our skies..just look at 9/11 vids they dont have any trails,,i also notice the pics that were put up showing us the “contrails” are not dated on the photos.i know for afact that i never seen lines b4 in our skies becasue i like to watch planes write letters in the skys with the smoke,,so i know i never witnessed these lines in the sky before otherwise it wouldnt be an issue to me…

  63. They did not change the movie.

    That’s a commercial for Virgin Train in the UK. They combine elements from the period film with elements from present day.

  64. Bo says:

    Such an interesting forum! I guess I’ll weigh in my two cents. Amongst all the other comments, I understand skepticism towards chemtrail claims, as everyone argues that it’s not normal to have a lingering contrail appear in the sky (often criss-crossed with others). Which, I must applaud the persistence. However, that’s really the most difficult argument towards the existence of chemtrails.

    I would say, or rather, the reason I believe there are chemtrails, comes from the presence of aluminum and barium inside some contrails, as well as finding aluminum and barium present in soil at extreme levels. Levels beyond those requiring government action to find a solution to the problem. In soil all over the place. Not just in places where you may expect to find it (though I don’t know anywhere that you’d EXPECT to find extreme concentrations of aluminum and barium in the top soil). Tested levels being 1050 ppm. Unacceptable is 500 ppm. Levels requiring government action is 900 ppm (not sure about that last number, but I know that 1050 is past the levels requiring government action). These tests were done in the documentary “What in the World are they Spraying,” made by Michael J. Murphy. In the film they have samples tested of soil as well as condensation from some contrails (they show you the test result documents in the film so you can verify it all for yourself, or choose to just believe that the test result documents are utter bullcrap and not look into it).

    Now, on top of all this, I’m still a skeptic. Here’s what sold me on it. Patents. Sounds a little weak, but you have to actually think objectively, not just as a debunker. Debunking serves it’s purpose, but focus too hard on ONE thing, and you miss a bigger question.

    To know what I’m talking about, simply google search US Patents Chemtrails. You’ll find the links to the US Patent website that’ll detail everything. A lot different patents (some that aren’t clear as to how they tie into the Chemtrail conspiracy theories). Plenty of them involving aerosol spraying of aluminum and barium (as well as other things) into the atmosphere. Now, I understand that there are patents for all sorts of crap that doesn’t work. So, could these patents be total bunk? Yes. Could chemtrails be false? YES! However, here’s the bigger picture:

    There are people that WANT to put aluminum and barium in the air. People in our government. There are bills already signed into law regarding the implementation of such exercises. Even if they’ve fallen flat on their faces and failed at actually pulling it off, what should alarm you is that they WANT to do it to us. How does that not piss you off enough already. Now, on top of that, having evidence of aluminum and barium at excessive amounts in our soil and some contrails is a bit of a smoking gun, in my opinion. But even if it turns out that the tests were rigged, there are STILL people in our government that WANT to do this, and HAVE BEEN TRYING TO ALREADY.

    By the way, the patents I’ve referred to go all the way back to the 1920’s. Persistent contrails, so I’ve heard, have been noticed since the 1930’s.

    Ok, that’s my two cents.

  65. You think this is a plot that dates back to the 1920s?

    No tests have shown aluminum and/or barium in contrails.

    What bills? Sure people have talked about doing it in the future, nobody has claimed to have actually done it though.

    Link to your evidence. Be specific.

  66. Bo says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef-kVuCnfuI&feature=related

    That link has some of what I talked about from the film “What in the World are they Spraying?”

    I didn’t say “this is a plot that dates back to the 1920’s.” You put those words in my mouth. I’m just presenting simple facts. I’m saying: There’s something to this Chemtrail conspiracy talk. It’s not all rabble.

    Here’s a website that cites some of the Bills, but I don’t think it’s the same Bill I was thinking of from the documentary: http://aircrap.org/best-evidence/ Really, I recommend watching “What in the World are they Spraying?”

    Here’s some info from an article from http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/soilradar.html

    “BARIUM AND ALUMINUM CONFIRMED

    Assuming that unusual metal content in the soil could be causing the high electrical conductivity readings, Dickie collected samples of a fresh snowfall for the city, and took them to Edmonton’s NorWest Labs for analysis.

    This reporter has obtained copies of lab tests conducted on snow samples collected by the city of Edmonton, Alberta between Nov. 8 – 12, 2002. The tests show unaccountably elevated levels of aluminum and barium. Norwest Labs lab report #336566, dated Nov. 14 2002 found:

    * aluminum levels: 0.148 milligrams/litre

    * barium levels: 0.006 milligrams/litre”
    ….and further in the article…..
    “CANADIANS LODGE CHEMTRAILS COMPLAINTS

    The previous December, 2000 Canadian aviation authority Terry Stewart investigating a Victoria caller’s complaint of intensive “chemtrail” activity over the British Columbia capitol left a taped message saying, “It’s a military exercise, U.S. and Canadian air force exercise that’s going on. They wouldn’t give me any specifics on it…very odd.”

    Despite denials from a Canadian commander at Comox Air Base that the American tanker flights were taking place, Stewart later admitted to the Vancouver Courier that his information came directly from the Comox base. He was later stopped and interrogated by U.S. authorities while crossing the border on a routine visit.

    Before ever hearing of “chemtrails”, Canadians were the first to formerly complain to their federal government over what they identified as chemical spraying. In November 1999, an Opposition Defence Critic presented a petition to Parliament signed by 550 residents of Espanola, Ontario. The largely native community demanded an explanation and an end to aerial spraying by photo-identified USAF tankers, which they claimed was sickening children and adults over a 55 square mile area.

    Laboratory tests of rainwater falling through the sky plumes being paid in X’s and grid patterns over Espanola found levels of aluminum seven-times higher than federal health safety limits. The U.S. Air Force denied flying over Espanola. The Canadian Forces, which do not operate large squadrons of aerial tankers, eventually responded, saying, “It’s not us.””

    I can keep typing if you like. There’s stuff about this everywhere. You just have to actually take a look. Yes, it takes up some time. What I posted on here took me about 30 minutes just now (skimming around). Not including any patent information. I already told you how to find that stuff. Just google “patents involving chemtrails” and you’ll see tons of sites that link straight to the US Patent office web pages about said patents. Again, I could keep typing, but this is webpages after webpages FULL of text….so I don’t know if you’d appreciate me copying and pasting EVERYTHING on here. You know what I mean? Yes, this means you’ll have to…..DUHN DUHN DUHN…….Read. But, hey, that’s what our government wins on: American stupidity. Two years ago, a state IQ test of Nevada (or it may have just been Las Vegas) averaged everyone at 11. Supposedly, Los Angeles was even lower. I guess we’re working our way up from dead people.

  67. Bo, I’ve watched WITWATS, and wrote a rebuttal of it.

    http://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/

    There are also several posts on metabunk.org that deal with the individual test results. None of them show anything unusual.

    The Espanola story you copied was from William Thomas – if you can find some independent corroboration of the story then we can discuss that – but William Thomas seems to be a rather dubious source, as he basically invented the chemtrail story.

    I would appreciate it if you don’t just keep cutting and pasting. Just about everything you’ll find has been dealt with either here or on Metabunk. Let me know if there’s something you find that has not been addressed, and I’ll point you to it, or address it.

  68. Regarding the aircrap.org story – there’s a lot there. What in particular do you find to be suspicious? It seemed like it was mostly about cloud seeding, which has been going on openly since the 1950s.

  69. Bo says:

    You said:
    “The Espanola story you copied was from William Thomas – if you can find some independent corroboration of the story then we can discuss that – but William Thomas seems to be a rather dubious source, as he basically invented the chemtrail story.”

    I can say similar comments about you and wouldn’t be wrong either.

    My point with all of this was only that there are those that WANT to do this. Regarding the aircrap.org story. If you’ve seen WITWATS, then you’ve heard from those implementing geoengineering via cloud seeding that aluminum and barium is a part of what they’re putting in the air. Not the guy making the documentary, but the people in the documentary that ARE implementing geoengineering. Straight from the horses mouth. The same person said that they didn’t test anything and it may all have a horrible effect, but they think it’s better to just move forward with it, and ask questions later. How do you debunk what came from the horse’s mouth? “Oh, he didn’t mean” well now that’s YOUR opinion on what the guy said. Why not take it literally?

  70. I don’t think anyone wants to do it. David Keith, the person you are referring to, is actually strongly against SRM geoengineering. He sees it as a last resort.

    What he wants to do is research it, in case it needs to be used in the future.

    There’s nothing to suggest it’s being used now. In fact David Keith says if he thought it was being done, he’d drop everything he was doing to try to stop it.

  71. Jay Reynolds says:

    Bo, I’ll tackle your comment about the alleged Edmonton snowfall lab test results first.
    Usually, we convert the units from milligrams/Liter to micrograms/Liter.
    You can use this calculator:
    http://www.convertunits.com/from/mg+l/to/micrograms+L
    Doing that, you get:
    aluminum- 148 micrograms/L
    barium- 6 micrograms/L

    Now, aluminum makes up on average, 6-8% of earths crust, and due to wind blown dust, it is commonly found in rain and snow as the dust is washed out of the air. Maybe you have noticed that the air gets cleaner after rainfall, right?

    So, what we did was to examine ordinary and historical levels of this crustal material in the air. What we found was that in 1967, the average aluminum levels in Canada were 800 micrograms/L, and in 1973, the average aluminum level in snowfall in Nebraska was 350 micograms/L.
    see:
    http://metabunk.org/threads/135-Chemical-Composition-of-rain-and-snow

    Based on these historical levels, I find nothng remarkable in the Edmonton results. It took some digging to find this historical information, and it seems that William Thomas did not do his homework, same with WITWATS. The people involved in WITWATS, Michael J. Murphy, G. Edward Griffin, Francis Mangels, Dan Wigington, et.al., have all been made aware of their mistake, yet refuse to offer a correction about their claims. Very objective of them, eh?

    There are many other problems with the WITWATS data, which you can read about here:
    http://metabunk.org/threads/137-Shasta-Snow-and-Water-Aluminum-Tests

    Oh, and BTW, barium is also found in soils and in cities it is known to be an air pollutant from car brake dust.
    see:
    http://metabunk.org/forums/9-Chemtrails

  72. Jay Reynolds says:

    Bo wrote:
    “The previous December, 2000 Canadian aviation authority Terry Stewart investigating a Victoria caller’s complaint of intensive “chemtrail” activity over the British Columbia capitol left a taped message saying, “It’s a military exercise, U.S. and Canadian air force exercise that’s going on. They wouldn’t give me any specifics on it…very odd.”

    Despite denials from a Canadian commander at Comox Air Base that the American tanker flights were taking place, Stewart later admitted to the Vancouver Courier that his information came directly from the Comox base. He was later stopped and interrogated by U.S. authorities while crossing the border on a routine visit.”

    I called Terry Stewart and asked him if that story was true It wasn’t. Others did the same, including the Vancouver Courier newspaper. See:
    http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread12755.html

    Your claim about average IQ being 11 is rather funny, but not supported by any study I found. Average IQ is somewhere around average, that being 100.
    http://www.people.vcu.edu/~mamcdani/Publications/McDaniel%20%282006%29%20Estimating%20state%20IQ.pdf

    This recent study thinks they found that rates of infectious disease wordwide is correlated with IQ.
    IMHO, the causality is not actually due to infectious disease rates, I would hypothesize that success in disease reduction is simply a reflection of a smarter population.

    Please accept Uncinus’ invite to metabunk.org. if you have more questions. If you are shocked that folks promotng chemtrails would knowingly continue making false claims consider helping us “get the bunk out of chemtrails”, if you care.

  73. A random thought says:

    i would like to say while this may not be evidence of chem-trails the governments around the world have been taking part in many weather modification programs, which to my knowledge are often conducted using aerosol spraying from planes, These i might add do happen over populated areas of the world. there is lots of evidence for this a quick Google search on weather mod PDF’s should give plenty of results, also there is documented evidence of the government in England conducting experimental spraying programs on civilians in the ’70’s if my memory serves me correctly.

  74. Yes, weather modification using cloud seeding has been conducted openly since the 1950s. It’s not a secret. It does not leave long trails in the sky.

    The “experimental spraying programs” you refer to were simply wind disbursement tests where substances were sprayed to see how far the wind would cary them. This was done to research defenses for chemical and biological warfare attacks. All the substances used were thought to be harmless, and the tests were very limited in number. Most of them were done at ground level.

  75. MikeC says:

    And of course the substances sprayed in those tests were also of types that were easy to detect – a flourescent material and specific microbes.

    If anything like that were being sprayed today then I hink normal municipal air quality testing would find it.

  76. Danny55 says:

    “also there is documented evidence of the government in England conducting experimental spraying programs on civilians in the ’70′s if my memory serves me correctly”

    Firstly, there is no English government, it is the UK government.

    Secondly, it was the 50’s mainly.

  77. adona says:

    After watching “What in the World are they Spraying?” I think the only way to answer the question, is it a contrail or is it a chemtrail? is to test the soil.

  78. JFDee says:

    adona,

    I don’t think testing the soil will tell us something about white lines 36000 feet above. There are so many sources of whatever elements and chemicals right around us. Think barium as a regular component in car brake pads.

    If you refer to the film (we call it WITWATS for brevity) it should be noted that there were many flaws in how the samples have been collected and in the following interpretation of the lab results.

    See this for a discussion about the film:
    http://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/

  79. adona says:

    Sure, okay….thanks

  80. Brian G. Sullivan says:

    I thoroughly enjoyed perusing your website, kind Sir! A very patient, avuncular fellow you are!

    Anyway, my $.02 on this topic are thus:

    A reasonable person faced with the unknown must first eliminate all things ordinary before concluding the cause as something extraordinary. Any conclusions made based on anything other than evidence ala Socrates – evidence that is Repeatable, Observable and Testable, is precisely the sort of thing used at the Salem Witch Trials. And by von Daniken in his riotously humorous (and wildly profitable), but tragically non-scientific treatise “Chariots of the Gods”. And by Spielberg in his oft-overlooked-by-the-Academy masterpiece: Apollo 11 – The Hoax. teehee

  81. Ben says:

    Funny thing is that somehow, “lingering” contrails never form on Sundays. It’s strange. I guess nobody flys on a Sunday.

  82. DeAngela Osborne says:

    Can you please explain this? Thanks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiJ_R8JVpi4

  83. SR1419 says:

    @Ben- yesterday – Sunday- we had a lot of persistent, lingering contrails in the skies above the Bay area…

    Today…not a single contrail of any length…

    @Denangela- umm…that was “explained” years ago – please review:

    http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/

  84. DeAngela Osborne says:

    Wow, not sure why your answer was a bit sarcastic, i have just recently started taking notice of these things and was looking for some explanation. I even said please and thank you, lol. With that being said, had you presented it in a way that was a bit less sanctimonious with your link, I probably would have clicked it, read it and been on my merry little dumb consumer way. Instead I read through all of the comments, here and on the page that the link took me to, and am left convinced there is definitely something to it. Oh and that your a douchebag. Thanks for your help.

  85. Whoa, that’s a little harsh DeAngela. SR1419 was being quite helpful.

    Did you see that it was actually explained?

  86. DeAngela Osborne says:

    umm is another way of saying i’m not quite as intelligent as the one responding and quotations around explained would say that he/she either thinks i’m a 3rd grader or just assumes i’m a “crazy”. But, yes, I read it and then once I read through every single solitary other comment, here and there, I found more validity with those commenting to the contrary. Not to mention, it is mainstream media that it was reported from, not like they can’t be persuaded. So I shall carry my little crazy dumb self away from here and again, I appreciate all of the insight. Peace.

  87. But surely the fact that the reporter misread the results, and later retracted the story, is irrefutable?

    How could “umm” change those facts?

  88. SR1419 says:

    Deangela…

    Sorry if my brief quip was misinterpreted by you and caused you offense…such is the nature of text based communication where inflection and subtle emphasis is lost.

    My “umm” was simply my colloquial literary style…the “explained” in quotes was because I really wanted to say Debunked but didn’t for fear of causing an emotional reaction that would preclude you from actually reviewing the facts in a rational, non-biased manner.

    Guess I was wrong.

  89. Rose C. says:

    There are tests revealing very high levels of aluminum and barium in water, vegetation and soil in Hawaii and other states after continuous spraying of chemtrails. You can view one documentary with proof here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiJ_R8JVpi4&feature=related and there are many more on YouTube. Look up ‘What in the world are they spraying’?

  90. GregOrca says:

    Rose, have a look at the selection of articles at the left hand side of this site.
    Have a very careful read of http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/
    The Video link you gave is not proof of anything other than a miscalculation of metric Scientific units on the part of the reporter Jeff Ferrel.

    People actually are not finding high levels of Aluminium and Barium. They are finding normal levels but are revealing they do not understand sampling methodology and do not understand the normal natural levels of those elements in the environment.

    It’s a bit like people who live by freshwater lakes who are surprised that the sea is salty. Which govt agency has been putting salt in the oceans?

    Does it seem impossible that anyone could be that ignorant about the sea?
    Well it’s the same level of ignorance for people not to know that soil is naturally high in aluminium, barium and other elements.

  91. Lazer says:

    Hi Unicus,
    Have you ever heard of dutchsinse on youtube…..here is a link:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H40B8LpDjmY

    Here is a meteorologist who is tracking the weather and shedding light on HAARP, chemtrails, and weather manipulation in general. He shows HAARP rings on the radar and accurately predicts following environmental changes.

    I am not an activist, but I am not ignorant either. The above link is just one video….I encourage you and everyone else following this comment thread to have a look at his channel overall.

  92. SR1419 says:

    Dutchsinse is NOT a meteorologist.

  93. Lazer says:

    It does not debunk all his claims. NEXRAD is capable of operating at frequencies up to 12.4 mhz, which in theory, HAARP and NEXRAD could work at the same frequency. Of course, there is no evidence to support this claim, I imagine any paper trail of this would be highly classified, but it is a possibilty, just saying.

  94. Steve Funk says:

    What is significant about a frequency of 12.4 mhz? This is slightly less than the frequency of VHF broadcasts, which start at 30 mhz.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum

  95. 12.4Mhz is the pulse frequency of NERAD (how often it switches on an off), not the wave frequency (time between successive wave peaks) , which is 2700 to 3000 Mhz. Dutch seems to be confused.
    http://www.letxa.com/nexradspecs.php

  96. Evan Benford says:

    Kind of funny considering the video I saw for contrail vs chemtrail involved two planes flying in the exaxct same area at the same time with VERY different trails. The altitude was different and you’d think the higher plane in the colder and drier altitude would have the persisting trail. Nope. In fact the higher plane had the trail that disappeared in seconds and the lower plane had the trail that lingered for hours…hmmmmm

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