Fake, Hoax, Chemtrail Videos

Most of the supposed “chemtrail” videos out there are simply videos of persistent contrails that the video maker somehow has decided are part of a giant world-wide conspiracy involving spraying something for some purpose.

But some videos are actually deliberate hoaxes, either by pranksters poking fun at the chemtrail community, or by people looking to promote the theory for one reason or another.

The above video comes from TankerEnemy, an Italian chemtrail proponent.  It very clearly shows aerodynamic contrails coming from the wings of a KC-10.  The pilots on the cockpit are heard joking about it being “chemtrails”.  TankerEnemy, not being a native english speaker, misses this and thinks they are being serious. He then goes on to “analyze” the video, and points to the flap mechanisms as being nozzles.

The original video was posted by USAFFEKC1OA as a joke (on July 14th 2010, under his original account USAFFEKC10, see here).  He later updated the description to read:

USAFFEKC1O | July 17, 2010

It was fun playing with all the chemtrailers but you guys are way to gullible!! 🙂

And commented:

You guys who keep saying “TOO LATE” need to think before you open your mouth…I don’t care that the videos are still out there and going viral. THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE PRANK!!!! …for all of you chemtrail idiots to get all excited as if these videos are the holy grail of chemtrail videos and for me and my friends to laugh at you while you spread them. The more passionate you guys are about this, the more entertaining it is for those of us who live in the real world. Keep on spreading!!

The video has indeed “gone viral”, at least within the chemtrail community. This means TankerEnemy will ether have to admit he was wrong, or continue to assert that the video is real evidence of spraying, even though it’s painfully obvious that it is not. Unfortunately he’s chosen the latter.

He later uploaded the original video, commenting:

This is the original unadulterated video that started all the fuss. It is completely authentic and no camera tricks were used. It is simply a couple of KC-10’s in formation and the audio you hear is just us poking fun at all the “chemtrail” conspiratorists. I knew when I shot the video that this would be catnip for all the conspiratorists out there. Yeah, the contrails have an odd way of “starting” and “stopping” but that is easily explained with physics. It’s no different than the lenticular clouds that form over a mountain or the fog that flows from an open freezer. So, stop being so gullible, kids. There are truely bad things in the world but this isn’t one of them!

Air Force Pilots Chatting While Filming A Chemtrail Being Sprayed

This is an interesting one. It’s NOT FAKE, but it just shows a plane leaving contrails. The pilots are chatting, but just about some test they are taking.

The reason it’s even listed as a “chemtrail” video is the unusual perspective of the shot. It looks rather unusual, and impressive. So some people think it’s either chemtrails, or a fake. But it’s just contrails. That’s what they look like when you are closely following a plane.


This one is less popular, perhaps because it’s more obviously fake. It shows some video from inside a cockpit (looks like an Airbus A321) with someone flipping a switch labeled “CHEMTRAIL ON/OFF”. The video then intercuts the cockpit view with a variety of shots of contrails, implying that the switch created contrails.

It’s hard to take the video seriously. The “chemtrail on/off” labels is obviously hand made, and simply stuck over the existing “Foot Warmer” switch on the switch panel on the right size of the Airbus panel.

Germany becomes the first country to admit chemtrail ops


That’s a real news story about chaff interfering with the weather radar. However the english subtitles have been faked to make it look like it’s a story on “chemtrails”. See full explanation here:


Ultimate Proof – Chemtrails



Those two are clearly just jokes by PogoPoint99, but are amusing takes on the whole chemtrail culture.

People are just posting these videos for their own amusement. It’s a bit unfortunate that they then “go viral” and are used to support the chemtrail theory. But the silver lining here is that the videos are very easily demonstrated to be fake, and I would hope that any chemtrail believer that gets initially taken in my them might pause for a few moments after they discover what the videos actually are.

If you so quickly and easily believed these videos, then how many other things are there that you have quickly and unquestioningly believed in the past? Perhaps it’s time to start questioning things?

510 comments on “Fake, Hoax, Chemtrail Videos”

  1. The Discovery Channel did a show on Chemtrail theory called Best Evidence, I think. They are saying on the site that it is propaganda. I was actually surprised how much credence the TV program gave to the chemtrail community. They showed a woman that was a former head of some agriculture group and some guy who is an outspoken journalist saying they are using it for geoengineering. The also showed a man who used a Spectometer to test the contrails and he also found nothing out of the usual jet exhaust. The added talk of global warming and plans for geoengineering amongst the frey. It seemed to confuse the author of the article. The following comments are the usual look up, can’t you see it. PrisonPlanet

  2. Try explaining that to the people who believe in chemtrails. They didn’t even take the said video seriously for the wrong reasons.

  3. Thanks Ryan for your comments. I am an chemtrail agnostic but I notice clear patterns of flight and contrails which are markedly different than anything I remember from 10 years ago and earlier. There have been one or two dramatic days over Austin the past year where planes fly parallel (in near unison) to each other and a form perfect grids. The clouds expand and linger and lower. When you view the sun through them they form a halo that I do not notice on other days with non-plane produced clouds. I don’t pretend to know or understand what I am witnessing–if my mind is creating order where none exists. However, the flight patterns are the things that appear more pronounced, dramatic, unusual, worth noticing than even the contrails themselves.

  4. Why have there been large planes on a daily basis laying these Contrails -Chemtrails that do not disperse for many hours, and when they do, they become phoney looking clouds like fibreglass. Every day for months this has happened.I have watched two large aircraft approaching ,they lay a pattern of three trails East to West and then 3 North to South. Does this sound Normal? Yes of course it will,to fools.I live in a town of 4000 people in NW Alberta. We had no rain all spring and summer . Our crops were less than good. Late August and Beginning of Sept when it was Harvest time up here ,it began to rain, not great amounts but enough to keep the farmers from harvesting. Those doubters who say these trails are NORMAL are sick freaks. They are a disgrace to the human race.

  5. It’s because your town lays on the route between the US and Aisa. Various routes will pass over you in different direction, on a regular basis, and the jets that follow these routes will lay contrail.

    If the weather is right then they will spread out into cirrus clouds. They do resemble fiberglass somewhat – thin and wispy. Have a look at photos of cirrus clouds on the internet.

    I think if you look at the historical record of rainfall in your region, you won’t find the current weather to be statistically unusual. Remember the weather is odd in some way pretty much every year – especially if you are only comparing it with the previous ten. You really need to look at the last 100 years to get a perspective of what is unusual or not.

    Here’s a useful resource. Have a look under the “Precip” tab, then “Historical Summaries”. Note the rainfall dispersion patterns and amount vary wildly from year to year.

  6. Yes uncinus, and if you saw a three headed calf you would say it was absolutely normal, and have some far fetched explanation as to why it was normal.

    You seem to be quite sure that this rain pattern that we experienced this year is something normal or maybe even randomly normal. I have lived here for 40 years, as an adult and I have never seen anything mildly approaching this years lack of rain. And yet, yes and yet in the Southern part of Alberta they are still waiting to get the crops off, because in planting season they were using boats to go down the highways, finally got some crop in ,but very very late. I realize that weather is not constant but in todays world of Frankenstein thinking that everything is normal is passe. Why not accept it ? People who see, and understand what they see and of course if it becomes close to the truth , they are the ones judged insane. So I would suppose that those who shrug off all the goings on in our present day world ,that are very questionable ,are living in that state of bliss. Im sure you are aquainted with the word describing bliss is such instances .

  7. Damn them for spraying dihydrogen Monoxide!!! DAMN THEM!!! They are killing the planet!!! People here are sick for denying this!!! Saneone is correct, those denying this are a disgrace to the human race…


    For more information! This is serious people we need to act. They are using this for chemtrailing and much more!!! They want to kill us all

  8. Thanks artyom. Good to know there are some humans not living in denial.

    Well ucinus…..Its apparent that you think that these Passenger Jets fly at rediculously low alltitudes travelling from the US to Asia and vice versa. Ive seen these military type planes at work, laying their crap and making their beautiful criss-cross patterns . Was wondering why you believe there are no mad scientists at work, well not really wondering. You live entirely by idiology, that is quite apparent. Some of us do live by thinking.

  9. Either saneone is gone forever, or he’s going to say that his first sentence was sarcastic, because this is quite the blow to his credibility above and beyond being a chemtrail hoax believer.

  10. I am afraid that our world today is run on two principles , Fear and Hypocracy. They too are by design, to keep us ignorant. When some evil action is taken by “OUR SIDE’ as in the Iraq War, illegal and inhuman. Too many believe ,”oh no, it had to be done”. Because that what they have been told. We are told over and over again that our Canadian kids are fighting for “”Their Country in Afghanistan. Are they really? What I say, I say, and dont hide behind hypocracy by flavoring it with sugar. When I have been proven to be wrong in my adult life, I have admitted that I was wrong. There are many things tho, that I have not been proven wrong about ,another being that the three trade tower buildings came down as a result of the two planes hitting them and the Pentagon.Two planes,they didnt find a plane body at the Pentagon, four buildings down.All the work of Bin Laden. Well,thats what we have been told and are asked to believe it. Personally I dont . Today we are being told on every newscast ,that if we travel anywhere be prepared to be blown up by terrorists. Swamp our minds with fear. I am too old to fear propaganda. My taste for bull feces has totally left me.

  11. artyom:

    For more information! This is serious people we need to act. They are using this for chemtrailing and much more!!! They want to kill us all”


    “Thanks artyom. Good to know there are some humans not living in denial.”


  12. So, I basically argued with one particular chemtrail believer all day today. At work, things were running fine and we don’t work outside in the rain, so I had a lot of time on my hands. He (she) was VERY concerned about some unusually high aluminum levels found in rain water, and just couldn’t understand why I wouldn’t jump onto his assumption bandwagon and jump to the conclusion that the rain water collected at ground level MUST contain anything that would be in the trails. And I never WILL fall for that load of malarkey!

    About the Aluminum, I found this post made by voice of reason on the Mount Shasta news story about aluminum in rain water


    Run around, scream and shout The sky is falling — NOT

    Get real. Look around you an average of 8% of everything you see is composed of aluminum. It is the most common element after Oxygen (47%) and Silicon (28%). Iron is 5% by weight.

    First question I have on any testing results is what test was conducted. If we are looking for biotoxicity the test must be a TLCP type test (total leachable content procedure) otherwise it will be completely meaningless in assessing biohazard. The bulk of this testing is on the basis of spectroscopy which does not tell us anything about the chemical form that the aluminum is in. The only way aluminum can be a hazard is if it is actually dissolved and available to be absorbed. by an organism.

    It is no surprise to find aluminum, silicon, iron in rainwater and surface water. Rain nucleates around dust. Most dust in the atmosphere is scoured by the wind from the land or ejected into the atmosphere by volcanoes. Volcanic events such as St Helen in minutes move cubic miles of rock in the form of dust into the atmosphere in the matter of minutes. This equates to 15 billion tons for every cubic mile of material. Of this, 1.2 billion tons is aluminum and 0.8 billion tons is iron.

    The reason we do not find Aluminum in most well samples is that the particulates are filtered out. Iron unlike aluminum is readily soluble in water and along with sulfur can often be found in wells locally, hence bad tasting water. Aluminum in nature is usually in the form of aluminum oxide (bauxite, alumina) or mineral class called feldspars (Calcium-aluminum-Oxygen, Silicon-aluminum-oxygen, etc.). These minerals are completely inert. Their presence in rain and surface water samples is expected and should not concern anyone. It is omnipresent and cannot be avoided.

    The metals spikes for other metals in water samples that take place as broad based events across Northern California I would expect when closely looked at can be traced to significant volcanic events elsewhere in the world with a time lag for the time necessary for the dust to be transported to our area of the world by atmospheric dispersion (wind). If no dust is available in the atmosphere for nucleation we have long periods of drought due to reduced cloud formation. Oh by the way reduced clouds mean increased warming by the sun due to decreased atmospheric reflectivity. Dust containing aluminum is a ‘good’ thing.

    The sky is not falling and the sun will rise tomorrow unless we have been hit by an asteroid or the sun has gone Nova In either case it is something not worth the effort to worry about.

    Werner Hoyt, PE
    Lake Shastina

  13. artyom exposed himself as a fraud immediately after I posted my first entry. Except smart artyon used the wrong words. Yes of course dihydrogen monoxide is water occording to my history. Have fun with it artyom.

    My uncinus…You base you life on evidence and science and then you add your reasoning.
    PLease,whose scientific evidence do you deem worthy of your adopted reason?

    I too believe in those same premmis`s but on the flip side of the coin from your sources.

    Why do I believe in Chemtrains, simply because I have witnessed they being created, at relatively low altitude all spring and summer. As I have said before they are sprayed in patterns, over and around my small town and area daily. They do not disperse like contrails of prior times. What is in them, well you believe there is nothing in them that may do harm.One thing I do know ,is that you do not know.

    When you gave me the explanation of commercial jets carrying passengers from the US to Asia making these trails, frankly I lost all hope for you . I dont want to and wont tell you again that I witnessed what it is that I saw.

    When I was 15 years of age I overheard someone say, of a highly educated man “Here comes the educated fool”. It stuck in my mind ,and through my lifetime thus far , have realized that there are plenty of them on earth. Would guess that another planet could be populated with that type alone whisked off planet earth. Probably, say, 20 million.
    Have I ran into any on this particular site?

  14. Saneone, I’m interested in what you are observing. Do you have photos or video of it?

    Also, I would be interested if you HAVE seem the persistent contrails of jets bound for asia (as they certainly fly over your area, at high altitude). What do they look like, and how do they differ from what you call “chemtrails”? Do you have any photos of them?

  15. unc

    You think I didnt know what kind of minds I was going to run into when I posted on this sham.

    That is precisely why I did it. Its been good entertainment. And has confirmed my thinking about your type. Hopefully someday you will grow up. LOL


  16. Saneone, I was hoping you would find out that it was water. None of the websites claims to dangers of water were false, but just misleading. It just shows people can misunderstand science. Unfortunately, you didn’t take this lesson to heart. If you believe a single aircraft is making a grid pattern, please document this aircraft and prove it isn’t one plane making a checkerboard in the sky. Most likely they were multiple commercial airliners flying through a busy air corridor. If you think flight paths don’t cross, how would people move East to West and North to South? Notice these trails are almost always in number to the engines the aircraft have, they appear slightly behind the engine due to the time it takes for the vapor to freeze, becoming visible. Contemporary science explains it all. The only thing that changed is the number of aircraft in the sky. Take this FAA rendering of Flight paths. Each moving streak represents an aircraft on 1 day of air traffic. FAA Flight Paths Now compare it to the Satellite image of South East USA. Satellite Image SE USA If you pay close enough attention, you’ll see the same patterns leaving and entering Florida, Georgia, and a few other states. The atmosphere determines whether the contrails persist and for how long. If they were spraying chemicals, the trails would begin directly from the source of the spray. Now pay careful attention to this video because this is what it really looks like when the GOVERNMENT sprays…. This is the Corexit spraying over the Gulf of Mexico. US Air Force Sprays Oil Dispersant Notice the spray bar and the fact it is a cargo plane(specialized aircraft). Now here is an overview of these C-130’s spraying Corexit. Deep Water Horizon Flyover This is what a real spraying operation looks like. It is a liquid, there are spray bars, and a specialized aircraft to deliver it. This has nothing to do with contrails. One is freezing of water vapor out of aircraft engines, this is tanks of Corexit ordered to be dispersed over the Gulf of Mexico oil spill. If this spraying goes documented, what on earth makes you think that Chemtrail conspiracy can last from 1997 without any LEAKS what so ever. Especially in the era of communication and internet. You think aircraft mechanics, manufacturers, ground crews, FAA, NASA, all the governments of the world, pilots, chemical companies, adding up to millions of people are all heartless bastards that think what ever the evolving plot of chemtrails is, would NOT leak it. Your personal BS meter should go off not only because science explains contrails, the conspiracy is exponentially larger everyday as new twists and turns are added to try to prove their existance over more theory. For instance, Radio communications, For HAARP, for poisoning the people to make them good slaves to the government, to control the Weather, to hiding the planet of Nibiru… I mean it evolves into madness…. Or it could just be CONTRAILS something that existed from time of flight, when man created aircraft capable of going into the right atmospheric conditions. Totally boring explanation for some. Spraying in grids? I have never seen any aircraft do it, from crop dusting, to Agent Orange being sprayed, and even the LBAM spraying. None of it involved flying upper atmosphere making grids. For HAARP it is absolute nonsense considering water vapor, chemicals, or particalized metals would do nothing considering the ionosphere is from 50 to 1000 kilometers high. Short wave radio can be bounced off of it. The Stratosphere is 10 to 50km high, much lower. Cirrus clouds are at 7km high. They are usually an indicator that contrails can form. This from the Cirrus cloud Wiki:


    A high number of cirrus clouds may be a sign of an approaching frontal system or upper air disturbance. This usually signals a change in weather in the near future, usually becoming increasingly stormy.[6] Cirrus clouds can also be the remnants of a thunderstorm. A large shield of cirrus and cirrostratus typically accompany the high altitude outflow of hurricanes or typhoons. Cirrus clouds have also been observed developing after the persistent formation of contrails from an aircraft. Increase in air traffic is a possible cause of an increasing amount of cirrus clouds.”

    It is the atmosphere that drives the conditions for contrails. Cirrus cloud’s effects as a greenhouse gas keeping warmth. Some are studying contrails effects and if they’re linked to any warming trends. However, scientists studying it have already used spectrometers and so forth, there isn’t much more to contrails other than water. The jet exhaust dissipates into the atmosphere. The rest is just basically a jet made cloud frozen vapor.

    No one here even calls you names, yet you call everyone here fraud and inhuman. The comment about an educated fool that you made. That went over your head. The person meant that someone who spent feels they know doesn’t search for knowledge. IT doesn’t mean contemporary science is wrong. It means people should learn themselves. Even Mark Twain said, “Don’t let school interfere with your education” and “God made an idiot for practice, then he made the school board.” Do these things disprove contemporary science? Go disprove it then. Start at universities.
    Don’t fall victim to the Appeal of Authority. No one here is speaking to you as in “I am a scientist, I know more than you”. However, making an observation is not knowing. It is only a 1st step in the scientific method! Even Mark Twain was friends with Nikolai Tesla. He wasn’t against learning and he would be in shock against lack of fundemental scientific knowledge that occurs today. “In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.”-Galileo Does this mean Chemtrail community has reasonable thinking? No. It does not as they have not gone about 1 way of proving they exist other than photograph contrails in the sky and take rain samples which don’t prove anything other than industrial pollution from ground level up to what is most likely a Nimbostratus cloud, that form at 3km altitude. And a Cumulonimbus that form from 2 to 16km. Anything in the atmosphere that either settles are gets trapped between will be sent to the earth in the rain. Which means it only tells you what ever pollutant was found in the atmosphere. It can never say this is from a “chemtrail” with any kind of certainty.

    Basic problem solving can go a long way in over coming mind traps of Conspiracy Theories.

    Then again, you don’t give a shit as you are here for entertainment. Then you tell people here to grow up? Interesting… lol Or maybe it is just a defensive mechanism. But then who really cares when someone isn’t respectful to others.

  17. People will believe pretty much anything.

    I found this site by searching for “contrails are nothing”…. now I don’t even remember what made me think of them. I think I saw a photo on flickr or something. I work in an industry populated with far-out lefties (I being one of them) and a few of the wackiest think there’s some chemtrail conspiracy.

    I think it’s especially funny that someone would take the existence of this site as evidence that there’s a coverup.

  18. “When I was 15 years of age I overheard someone say, of a highly educated man “Here comes the educated fool”.”

    And that’s all it took for you to de-value the education of others?! maybe that PARTICULAR person WAS a fool and the education didn’t help him/her.

    Sorry, none of this applies here. The trails are WELL understood by those of us who have actually studied the subject. And for you to “believe” that even though you have NOT studied the science that explains the trails, those of us who have must just be “educated fools” is just ridiculous. I have a feeling you just remember that quote whenever someone disagrees with you and just assume they are wrong, and you are always right…regardless of a lack of education in the subject being discussed, simply because you “believe” “that there are plenty of them on earth” (educated fools, that is).

    The problem here is that YOU are the one dismissing facts in favor of paranoid fantasy. YOU are the fool, as well as your “chemtrail believer” “friends”. Your complete ignorance about aviation is obvious. Yet, you are trying to reverse things and suggest that we are the “fools”. Can’t you understand that aviation is a bit complex and “believing” that you understand it, and actually understanding the subject are two completely different things?!

    I just LOVE how you are insistent with your “beliefs” though. It’s quite entertaining to see someone insist that he is intelligent…and then blow it! . Please take the time to learn about aviation and atmospheric science (especially air saturation) from REPUTABLE/reliable sources. And the average “chemtrail believer” on youtube is NOT a reliable source.

    “Why do I believe in Chemtrains, simply because I have witnessed they being created, at relatively low altitude all spring and summer. ”

    I witness them being created all the time, yet I still don’t “believe” in “chemtrails”.
    I have to wonder why. Have I been indoctrinated at school?! When I learned about condensation in 6th grade was that in preparation for “desensitizing” me about the trails in the sky? When I went on to become a pilot and learned about the cold temperatures at altitude (even in the middle of summer) and the dangers of icing on a plane, that was all in preparation to desensitize me about the trails in the sky?! When I learned in high school that cold air holds less moisture than warm air, I was purposely being “prepared” to misunderstand the trails in the sky?! And then, when I went to college, to study aviation, and was taught that any more moisture (like that from a jet engine…or ANY combustion source, for that matter) added to a supersaturated, VERY cold area, of the atmosphere would create a “cloud”, I was being deceived?! Wow, thanks for clearing that up for me! All this time spent in classrooms…wasted! All I really have to do to learn about any subject is find a conspiracy theorist…Good to know! Thanks!

  19. @facts, don’t you love having real efforts in study and science appraised as nonsense by a dunderhead? LOL

  20. Speaking of Youtube, the “chemtrail believers” there have come up with some absolutely hysterical ideas. I heard of this for the 9-11-2001 conspiracies. That the planes are fake and holographic. HAHAHAHAHA!!! I saw a title Chemtrail planes are fake. They then went on to say they are holographic. I have no idea what goes on in their minds… But it is pure delirium. This is going into competition with the Nibiru crowd for the Ultimate Lost Minds Award.

    By the way, I just remembered I had an account 3 years ago or something, I lost the password… maybe it is still active.

  21. If I were you, I’d stay away from youtube. Unless you really enjoy posting the same thing over and over. The “evidence” these people have is, in a word, unbelievable! They all make the same exact mistakes in logic. They read about something being collected on the ground and they “look up” and see the trails…then they all jump to the same conclusions. And that’s all I want them to notice about themselves…but they are unable. They (conspiracy theorists) have something missing in their brains. The part that says “whoa..let’s take a step back and ask myself if I’m REALLY educated enough in this subjects to make an informed decision”. Nope, they really do live life with the notion that anything they “believe”, must be “fact” simply because they believe it!. It doesn’t MATTER to them if the information is credible or not.

    Whatever…I enjoy it as a hobby….and it helps me with my typing….but it’s all for not. They will NEVER change their beliefs and they will continue to lie to folks in order to get them to join the cult.

  22. The third object is just another plane that’s at a different altitude. There’s three planes flying some sort of escort formation. Yes, they fly through a region of moist air, but as they are all at different altitudes, the contrails start and stop at different points.

  23. One can’t see for certain what aircraft it is. It does seem like twin engine fighter aircraft (Maybe F/A-18). Those being contrails is definitely scientific however. There were 3 aircraft flying in V formation. The man who posted this seems to live in Arizona. There are 4 US Air Force bases there. There are six Naval stations in California, 1 in Nevada, and more East of Arizona which could explain Naval jets flying cross country. Air Force has F-15, F-22, T-28 trainer(also know as F-5). Navy has the the F-18 and F-5, (maybe others, don’t know for certain). US Air Force Bases Chart US Naval Air Bases Listing List of active US military aircraft

    “This has got to be one of the best visual evidences I’ve seen. There is no way there’s some kind of atmospheric condition to explain this” – comment on the youtube video

    This is proof they have NO fundamental knowledge of the atmosphere and will jump to any conclusion based on making an observation. If the difference between the edge of a cloud and dryer air can coexist next to each other just meters apart. How can this person tell what the atmospheric conditions are the aircraft is flying through. The air has pockets, currents, vortexes, jet stream, updrafts, downdrafts, varying humidity to supersaturated air… Of course these determine how and where contrails will be formed as the aircraft interacts with the atmosphere. Totally lost on those people.

  24. I’ve read the entire page here and much of the site.
    I just don’t understand why it’s so hard to believe it’s possible. Why is it so hard to believe degree holding people who say the chemtrails exist?

    That would be like trying to tell my friend who was a soldier in the army, that he wasn’t their guinea pig. He was part of an army testing project in the late 1960s with LSD, mind control and other unknown (to him) drugs and much, much more. This was real, and yes the government can and does cover up SO much. So, why is it so hard for anyone to believe the government is using chemtrails?

    And, as someone else pointed out, the more energy that goes into refuting it, the more I believe it convinces people (who continue to educate themselves) that they are chemtrails…it is real.

    Naturally, if someone came here and only briefed themselves, they may go away feeling they’ve nothing to fear, that these trails are simply contrails. The dis-believers here do a pretty good job of explaining it away, and post from pilots refuting the trails may convince “some” people.
    However, if someone were to continue reading (not just on this site) and educating themselves, they’d also find good evidence that there are chemtrails.

    Let’s give credit where credit is due too. There are documented findings from chemist, nephologist and people with ecological agriculture degrees. In my opinion, these people hold as much, if not more credibility on chemtrails or contrails, then a pilot does.

    It just makes me wonder if the people who post here, who say these trails are not chemtrails, but are contrails, if they’re needing to stay in denial because to have it be a reality would be too scary.

    In a discussion between 2 people I know, one believes chemtrails exist, one doesn’t. The believer said this to the doubter…
    “If the issue didn’t have any validity, it shouldn’t even phase you. Yet it appears by your comments that you have a charge about the issue, & maybe this is signaling that indeed your instincts are sensing something worth getting upset about.”

    This made perfect sense to me. The more someone denies chemtrails and get’s charged up about defending there are none, the more I believe their just trying to convince themselves chemtrails don’t exist.

    Maybe the burden of proof is on both sides. But, it’s certainly not something people can just pass off like it’s nonsense to believe there are chemtrails. I think it’s important to question everything that doesn’t seem right or healthy for us.

    I haven’t seen such convincing post here to make me still not question the existence of chemtrails. And, because I still question, that doesn’t make me a conspiracy theorists or follower and it doesn’t make me stupid (on the contrary) I learn more and I remain open minded.

    Free your mind and your arse will follow!

  25. I’m afraid the burden of proof is always on the claimant. Otherwise you’d be able to claim ANYTHING, and then say: “well, you can’t disprove it, so it must be at least 50% true”.

    Then, saying that someone explaining why something is not true is actually evidence that it IS true …. well, that’s perhaps wishful thinking. When it was explained to your that the tooth fairy did not exist, did that make you think it did exist? Why would your parents make such a big deal about telling you there was no santa,unless there actually was one?

    Look, instead of judging an issue on unrelated things like how many people happen to believe in it (see, for example, Islam, with over a billion believers, and millions of ardent opponents, even Islam “debunkers”), why not get down to the nitty-gritty, and look at the ACTUAL EVIDENCE.

  26. Ree, the exhaust of engine trails have been tested and tested… Their contents are just aviation fuel. Even Kent State did a study in a control, burning the aviation fuel. If you can’t recognize Contrails are forming off the engines, 4 trails per 4 Engine craft, 2 trails per 2 engine, then you are just blinding yourself. If there are spray bars, prove it? Show me the spray bars, why are the trail numbers correlating to the number of engines? Atmospheric physics already EXPLAINS that the trails will form and CAN persist from the engines interacting with the atmosphere. Pilots study the atmosphere more than chemists, but say a chemist looks at the situation. What evidence is the Chemist looking at? Turbonfan engine exhaust? Rainfall sample? Hepa Filter sample? Turbofan engine exhaust has been done already, nothing that says there is something to be sprayed. Rainfall finds the usual suspects and almost always below EPA levels of toxicity. However, since they see aluminum and barium they believe they are on to something, but they have no idea how these elements commonly exist in the environment. So again, as a chemist, would he come to a conclusion from studies that contrails aren’t contrails???????? Absolutely not!!! HE would have thrown out the scientific method to make a HUGE ASSUMPTION!!!! Based on rainfall and low level altitude Tropospheric Hepa samples, will never prove contents of engine exhaust or what trails behind an aircraft. Again it is Appeal to Authority, but you are saying Meteorologists and Pilots don’t know anymore about the atmosphere than chemists and ecological agricultural degree holders. Nephologist? Did you mean Nephrologist? If so, what does a kidney specialist have to do with this? Unless you are assuming poisons are showing up in people’s urine… I can imagine the infinite more variables included in that test.
    LSD, Agent Orange, LBAM, UK tests, Radiation experiments, Rendition, Corexit and many government programs…. Wow they’re evil…. Okay, YOU KNOW THESE THINGS!!! Disclosure, openess, and informants as some were secret, yet you know them. What does this have to do with contrails? If we all can show photos of contrails since WWII… We know scientifically contrails can persist. 1)if they are coming from the engines(As they are all shown) 2) If they have appeared since aviation brought combustion engines into contact with the right atmospheric conditions.. 3)Already been studied by various institutes and the governments who were interested in the atmosphere and how aircraft can basically create clouds. (learn nucleation and sublimation) This explains almost a lot. The conspiracy of “Chemtrails” would mean that everywhere there is an airplane, there is chemical spraying. It is above me in Russia in middle of nowhere…. It is where aircraft fly. So how are the chemical industries stock portfolios… They should be outperforming Big Oil, Technology, and various industries, because everyday they would hypothetically being “Chemtrailing”, yes? Oh they have stealth funding… sure… Then for these aircraft, military and commercial aviation be flying all over every nation, international flights, chemtrailing…. Sure… Again highly unlikely as that would be an act of WAR… So that means it must be the Bilderbergers since they are the only group that are secretly meeting. But then why do people in Asia see them too? They don’t participate in Bilderberg. What about all the aircraft manufacturers? The clients who purchase aircraft? Aircraft mechanics and engineers? Airport personnel? We are talking about globally which is a ton of people… I never did the math to figure them together, but anyone who comes into daily contact with aviation would eventually catch wind of this conspiracy. So WHERE ARE THE INFORMANTS? No real proof. I saw doctored claims, but no proof. Too big… Occum’s razor, look it up.
    Thinking that chemtrails are real, does not equal a free mind. It leaves an open variable in the atmosphere that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND…. Which means if they decide one day to actually begin Geo-engineering, you won’t understand what is real and what is not. Weather modification is documented. You are basically saying you do NOT understand the atmosphere and contrails. Therefore, you’ll keep an open mind. Yet, you claim you read here and are unconvinced, but have you tried to prove anything here wrong?
    Contact your meteorologist. Ask him about how contrails are formed and can they persist… Tell him about the conference on Geo-engineering and how they want to spray Sulfur in the Stratosphere to reflect the sun due to belief in global warming. Then ask is it possible that commercial airliners around the world have been secretly enrolled to spray them and that be why they persist? I guarantee you he won’t agree because science already explains contrail formation. And if they were to spray an agent, it would look like weather modification on aircraft that can reach that altitude. And so far it is just talk, but I know theorists believe it has begun… great believe, but contrails are proven science…. Geo engineering is talked about science…. And Weather modification is already science applied… None of it has to do with Contrails. So they are spraying the people to kill them? Cancer rates? WOW correlation without causation. I can say the same about increase in cars and cancer. Increase in mobile phone usage and cancer. Now more contrails equals cancer? Sure keep an open mind, ignoring answers… it is the same as remaining ignorant. You keep an open mind when there is NO answers…. Gravity, something causes it… I’ll keep an open mind to the cause because it has yet to be proven, but I know it exists because the feet are place firmly on the ground. There is a big difference between gravity and contrails. Even helicopters in Siberia, at ground level, can create them…. Mi-8 take off
    To a chemtrailer, This looks like a chem plane… Through normal observation this looks like a commercial airliner, with 4 contrail lines coming from the engines… Note that space between the engine and trail is not visible… That is because the moisture from the engine takes time to freeze!!! The wonders of science… And if you understand sublimation and supersaturated air and atmospheric conditions… you will understand if the trail dissipates, remains, or spreads as a cloud.

    Belief in Chemtrails is a self proclamation of ignorance of the atmosphere.

    God forbid people aren’t afraid of water vapor….

    “I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn’t know.”
    -This should be spoken more often instead of making assumptions because there is nothing wrong, what so ever, in not knowing over making assumptions. Nobody ever proved to me Santa Claus doesn’t exist.

    If you want to read about the health effects of JP-8 fuel that the military is adopting for use, read here These effects are before combustion obviously. They are related to Kerosene. I doubt the real purpose of JP-8 is geo-engineering…

    Concerns of people are almost always misplaced do to ignorance.

    Do people not know that combustion alters the compounds? So putting things in aviation fuel as an additive, they would have to be converted to the compound sulfur as a result of that combustion and not damage the engine in the process…. So far there is NO EVIDENCE OF THIS..

  27. “Why is it so hard to believe degree holding people who say the chemtrails exist?”

    A COMPLETE lack of evidence, for one thing…

    And then the fact that every chemmies I have met so far doesn’t even have a basic understanding of their atmosphere or aviation.

    Other than those two things…I can’t think of any good answers!

  28. For Artyom

    I have a very good basic understanding of the atmosphere and a small bit of aviation understanding.

    I was simply pointing out that while people here work very hard to convince people that there are no chemtrails, there are equally as many qualified people showing or very near proving chemtrails are real.

    I also said that I’m not sold on the idea that all trails are only contrails, just because I read it here. This site, the people posting and the info presented, are not convincing enough.

    There is no doubt that I’ve seen many “contrails” in a day…but, I’m still of the belief chemtrails are being used, from what I’ve witnessed my self (enough said about that). And, fyi, I never said I’ve seen “spray bars” either. There is no point in my explaining what I’ve witnessed either. It would either be not believed or it would be explained as a contrail, by using an over simplification, when you couldn’t have the faintest idea of what I’ve seen (unless you had been there)

    What I’ve seen is more than enough to keep my opinion strong. Proving it to you and or anyone else who is saying that chremtrails are not real, is not my goal. I couldn’t convince you anymore then you can convince me, so I don’t even try (class dismissed, so to speak)

    I have noticed however, there are an awful lot of condescending attitudes here, from people who don’t believe chemtrails are being used. Name calling (calling people stupid and etc…)
    I think what’s happened is that some here have gotten a tad bit full of themselves.

    Look for bigger pictures, follow money trails, see what’s been done in the past. Sure continue to use your science, but when I say “open your mind”, I’m referring to what I just mentioned (the past, and what has already been disclosed about what shady dealings our government has already done to human beings)

    I guess we’ll see. As the government discloses more and more of their secrets and screw ups (and there is no denying they are!), you just never know…I may come back and say, “I told ya so”! Though, I wouldn’t say it like that ~

    btw, I am a former military person
    btw, I am a former military person

  29. I was simply pointing out that while people here work very hard to convince people that there are no chemtrails, there are equally as many qualified people showing or very near proving chemtrails are real.

    I don’t think you can read very much into what random people post on the internet. I’d actually say there are far more people saying chemtrails are real than are saying they are not real.

    What portion of science books int he last 50 years contain evidence that say chemtrails are real? (like: are there any that say contrails can’t persist more than a few minutes?).

    What portion of meteorologists think chemtrails are real?

    What portion of scientists think chemtrails are real?

    I’m still of the belief chemtrails are being used, from what I’ve witnessed my self (enough said about that)

    Why can’t you talk about that? Why exactly does your personal evidence, on which you base your beliefs, not stand up to scrutiny? If you know it’s so flimsy, then why exactly do you believe in it?

  30. Did you state your former military status as a proof of the validity of your argument? If so you must surely recognize the validity of our arguments when we state our understanding of atmospheric and aviation sciences based on or stated backgrounds.

    I think the anger stems mostly from frustration. Day after day people come here and say they have seen something or that they believe something and then just go away not willing to establish and maintain a civil, reasoned debate. Or they freely admit an almost total lack of understanding of the topic but yet strongly believe only what they have seen or been told. I am very frustrated by that and often lash out, fully expecting the person to never return to read my comment anyway.

    And you state there are equally qualified people who have nearly proved that chemtrails are real. What are thier qualifications?

  31. “I think what’s happened is that some here have gotten a tad bit full of themselves.”

    Or when there are an extra amount of “shill” and “disinfo agent” accusations being flung about. With me, that means fair game. If someone doesn’t want me expressing my opinion about them, maybe they need to keep their ridiculous accusations to themselves. I have no problem calling an idiot, an idiot, especially if he/she INSISTS on being an idiot. It’s not MY fault that these people refuse to learn/understand the facts from REPUTABLE and RELIABLE sources. Sorry, Alex Jones, Clifford Carnicom and Rosalind Peterson are NOT qualified to teach anything about these trails, to anybody.

  32. Just came back for a quick visit to see what all you chemtrail denyiers have been saying.

    What came thru to me loud and clear, when I was posting on the site, is that many of you say you qualify as scientists. This of course, is meant to make your statements irrefutable.

    At this very moment in time, in Alberta ,there is wrangling going on as to whether or not The Athabaska River is being poisoned by The Alberta Oil Sands, Oil Industry. As in every other question of importance, there are very qualified scientists on both sides of the argument. Independent vs Government. So lets not pretend that Science is The Alpha and The Omega. Most are guided by human type idiology. What I ‘KNOW” is, that takes no grandios education on my part is ,that many many people in my area, where there have been chemtrails laid every day, in the manner that I have described over and over and over again here,these people,including myself , have had,and still have upper respiratory problems affecting lungs,throat and sinus cavity.These problems have hung on and hung on from sometime this past winter, until today in many cases. There were chemtrains every day during this period. No I dont have the exact month,week,day,minute,second or nano second that the problems began. So naturally what I have to say is invalid,unscientific by this sites interrogation standards.Our Doctors have no answer for what it is, or causing it,and absolutely no remedy. The reason why I left this site , Too much double speak.Too much intellectual,educational diatribe.Oh yes there have been many ,well rounded educated people.These type did not take education in a linear manner.They are well rounded, thinking people who are an asset. So who on this site, is absolutely qualified to teach the absolute truth in regards to chemtrails. Do the deniers of chemtrails know absolutely everything that Governments are involved in? At this point in time, it may be fool hardy to say yes,dont you think?

  33. Who are the scientists on the the chemtrail side then? What papers have they published?

    Really though this whole appeal to authority is a bit of red herring. The facts quite plainly speak for themselves.

    saneone. Could you explain on what you base you belief in chemtrails? Is it just that you and lots of people had upper respiratory problems during winter? Or is there something else?

    Is there ANY WAY in which you could get any statistics at all about this increase in upper respiratory problems? Any possibility in correlating it to contrails activity, and removing the confounding bias of the weather? Is there any way at all that might be done? Maybe if you plan ahead, could you do it for this year?

    You’d think that with such an amazing thing, then it should not be hard to find a few people able to simply record some numbers for a few months. So why is it that after TEN YEARS its still just anecdotes?

  34. @Ree, Thanks for the wiki link… Some times, word searches go empty. Wikipedia gave no result and dictionary was empty. ((( I knew what nephrology was already so I just throught you dropped the r… my bad.
    With basic understanding of atmosphere, you should already know that contrails persist. And as for qualified people showing they exist, there are almost none that I know of… I don’t go to the library checking out chemtrail books, but I do find plenty of books with contrails explained.
    You have no proof of a spraying apparatus or that there is a jet fuel additive. You don’t know the goal of the “chemtrails” or anything. You have your observation from 7000 meters away of a vapor trail. If it looks strange to you, that’s fine. I am no judge and won’t assume you saw some funky contrails, but to say they are chemical is a HUGE assumption that NO educated, or even scientific minded person, would EVER come to that conclusion. There was a murder. You found the body and man (A) was standing near the body… Is he guilty? Now when we already know contrails EXIST and combustion engines can pump out huge contrails that can persist and form cirrus clouds…. I don’t think any form of military spraying and talks of geo-engineering relate. There at tons of aerial spraying, but none of them relate to contrails at all.
    Sure, follow money trails, have you done so at all? Have you found a government fund set up to aluminum, sulfur, or barium producer and link it to aviation? Are there stock portfolios going through the roof? WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?!!!! Again you only have your observation. You can keep believing everything based on observation alone and you can be a lost person.
    I have no problems with you or anyone. I don’t think anyone from here is full of themselves. There are tons of chemtrail believers coming here saying we’ll disappear, we are stupid, and so forth. I think it is great hypocrisy to try an bring this up when we put this great effort into debating with you. I am attacking the subject, not you.
    I am also a former military person in the Air Force, but that doesn’t give me more validation. I challenge you to prove anything wrong. I challenge you to go to a meteorologist and discuss it with him. If you have the money and love photography, you can get a digital SLR camera and attach it to a telescope to get upclose photos of airplanes in flight. If there is any spray device and you find it, then have it validated as a modification to the airframe for spraying… I’ll believe in a heart beat they’re up to something…. Why? It is called evidence…. It is something that the chemtrail believers have NONE of…
    As for the government and their screw ups, there are tons of them… Almost all get revealed through time and NONE of them are at the size scale as this chemtrail theory. Why do all commercial aviation? You said you were in the military. Do you understand logistics? Do you know the effort it takes to keep one fighting man on the frontline? For everyman, how many support units are needed? The planning? Now we have anything with an engine in the air creating “Chemtrails?” Dear God!!! This is logistically the largest operation ever conceived by mankind. Larger than the Berlin Airlift. Large then Katrina, Larger than all the rescue operations. And if this is poisonous as they claim, it affects all the pilots. Why aren’t the pilots dying off like flies… They get special innoculations? That’s just adding more to the plot. Because they’d also need pharmacy involved and it would be globally as everyone has contrails over their nation if they have airplanes flying. They are appearing in Antartica too. It is something so big that it is impossible to wrap your mind around. Bigger than Wall Street Corruption… Or it is something simple… Already explained… Since our grandfather’s of WWII. Military studies contrails too. They don’t like big long white lines pointing to their aircraft when they’re attacking. So weather prediction is very important for them too.
    You are talking about an open mind, but you don’t have an open mind. You are talking about them spraying. An open mind would never make an assumption. You would make your observation. There are lines in the sky…. Okay I observed many lines and to me they are strange. How are they formed? Can they be made naturally? Are they intentional and sprayed? If they are sprayed, I need to find out how and find proof…. If they are natural, there should be information about how trails form behind aircraft, by official university studies and other scientific research… That’s how an open mind would be thinking. And you wouldn’t be in a position to even think about “I told you so” with being in the open mind position.
    However, one day you will find the answer has been around since they’ve first studied contrails. Chemtrail believers adapt their theories very often… They’ve learned about the geo-engineering forum for spraying Sulfur into the Stratosphere to reflect UV radiation and cool off the earth. This is now what they are saying. Some believe it is hiding planet Niburu, other’s believe it is the Woodpecker system for Scalar weapons, another relates with that woodpecker grid= believing it is a magnifier for HAARP system, and others believe it is for population control, soft kill weapons. All of these things are utter nonsense as contrails existed to all of these theories and HAARP program and geo-engineering ideas…. The only thing that has changed is the increase in air traffic, which means more contrails, which also means the skies look stranger(Because more planes=more contrails).

  35. “What came thru to me loud and clear, when I was posting on the site, is that many of you say you qualify as scientists.”

    More proof that chemmies read to far into things…and get very confused simply because they make assumptions. I have NEVER seen a single person on this site claim any such thing! We are educated in science..and understand how it applies to the subject of “chemtrails”.

    Having an education in science only makes me educated in science. It doesn’t make me a “scientist”. One has to be actively involved in a science career to be considered a “scientist”. Also, I completely encourage others to find evidence to refute the scientific explanations! Feel free! Will you be doing anything of the sort, any time soon?! I’m patiently waiting!

    And your assumptions that the trails in the sky have ANYTHING to do with respiratory problems is just that…assumption! You have no evidence…just “belief”. And that belief is based on a LACK of education that might explain your illness better without involving a trail of any kind. You can pretend that a proper education in a subject isn’t important. But, personally, I will ALWAYS find the most knowledgeable person I can, in ANY subject, and learn a thing or two before I make any claims of “fact” or “truth”. And it’s my OBSERVATION that those who “believe” in “chemtrails” have decided that it would be best to learn from OTHER folks who have NEVER studied aviation or atmospheric science. I understand why..in most cases, anyway…they won’t seek out expertise on this subject. They (you?) also “believe” that the mean old government has ensured that ALL scientists trained in these subjects are “lying” for “the government” as part of a huge cover-up and just cannot be trusted! Or, that the education these people have is somehow full of the information “the government” wants us to “believe” as truth…even though everything can be recreated in a lab.

    I have to wonder…when the Doctor told you he/she couldn’t find the source, did you “educate” him/her about “chemtrails”? If so, what was the reply?!

    This whole thing is NONSENSE!

  36. No I didnt try to educate The Doctors.

    I am sure the Doctors must be able to hear and listen to this much publicized subject, and they dont have the time that you have I’m sure. When they say they have no antidote, I have to believe them. How many hours of their time would you be prepaired to take? They are not scientists either. They are medical doctors. But you highlight this sight once again. Keep asking questions of believers. But when you people,non believers are questioned, you lead everyone on a phoney fox hunt buy absurd questioning. It is so ultra phoney, that it stinks. NONSENSE is it, oh narrow minded one?. The only Govt. that you trust is your own I would suspect.

  37. What question do you feel has not been answered? I’d be happy to try to clarify things.

    Really it’s all about evidence. If there was a lot of good evidence, then why don’t people just put it all on one page. Why is the evidence hidden in personal anecdotes and youtube videos after TEN YEARS of this theory?

    You woud think that a trillion dollar operation that involved flying millions of spray flights, and affects the health of billions would leave some measurable fingerprints? But no – contrails look as they always have. Mortality rates are improving. Climate change has not been stopped. Nobody has leaked a related document. There are no photos or videos of spraying. There has been no changes in municipal water quality. Nothing.

    It does not suggest the theory holds water.

  38. “I am sure the Doctors must be able to hear and listen to this much publicized subject,”

    You’d be surprised at how few outside of the youtube community have ever heard of “chemtrails”. I had studied aviation for my whole life and I accidentally stumbled upon the chemtrail hoax 5 years ago while looking for a specific type of airplane. As soon as I typed in “chemtrails” as a search in youtube, I fell down the rabbit hole. Virtually no one else on the planet knows you people exist.

    “But when you people,non believers are questioned, you lead everyone on a phoney fox hunt buy absurd questioning. ”


  39. I can understand *saneone*’s frustration with scientists (don’t mix up with science!) up to a certain point. It seems that there are always some that abuse their scientific knowledge to confuse or to manipulate people, for reasons of personal gains in money or medial attention.

    Unfortunately these few are often very present in the public eye, namely in television. If they take an opposing point of view, no matter how far from scientific common sense, and the TV moderator slips into a “neutral” position in between, then it actually may seem that science is just annother opinion thing.

    I came to the conclusion that for judgments about the larger picture it is advised to understand what the worldwide majority of scientists is thinking. This is an international bunch and not likely to be centrally controlled given the diverting interests of nations. The majority’s reasoning is what I tend to accept without researching an issue myself.
    This is why I believe that what I learned in the meteorology class for my glider flying exam is true. This is why I can fully accept the explanations about contrails. And this is why I believe that we are in fact HUGELY into geo-engineering.

    Just not by Chemtrails.

    We do it by increasing the level of carbondioxide in the atmosphere. And the weather IS changing as the majority of experts conclude. Dry areas get even dryer, other regions get more (and more violent) precipitation. The global temperature has a tendency to rise.

    This might even explain the drought in the area where *saneone* is living. But to take that into account would inevitably lead to the conclusion that there is no THEY responsible, but that WE are responsible, that I and YOU had to change the way of living and that our current way of life is probably NOT good.

    Seriously, who wants to admit that? It is much more convenient to blame THEM …

  40. You disbelievers are so lucky. According to you,you have all the credible scientists on your side. Which of course is bull crap. You dont believe there is a they? Must be nice to be so insulated from having to think on your own, independently

    Did scientists create The Atom Bomb, Neutron Bomb,Chemical Weaopns etc etc etc? Both for Russia and The USA to start with . And they, Yes THEY, keep improving their fking weapons

    All for the good of mankind of course. Oh yes I forgot, I didnt see them being made so I know Fk all. Rite? I really wasnt told by one of your scientists that they did or did not make those weapons. Lucky for you Kids and Grandkds that they did.Oh yes I have always known that most Medical Doctors have had linear training, specifically to help us with medical problems.Ive known that for years. So what am I supposed to do about it?Im hoping that you people brimming with knowledge will undertake to educate them. Oh how foolish of me to even think on my own. You have convinced me that I did not see two aircraft laying the chemtrail patterns(and I did say two). Knowing me, it was probably a mosquito on each of my eyes farting in unison.

  41. I don’t doubt what you saw – it’s just the interpretation, and the conclusions.

    You saw planes laying trails – fair enough, that happens all the time – planes lay contrails. Now you say there were just two planes. Did you see them turn around? Did they leave u-shaped trails? Could you see what type of planes they were?

  42. For *saneone*: I am indeed thinking on my own, but I am not thinking that what the majority of scientists concludes must be obviously wrong.
    I am not able to accumulate all the knowledge to REALLY make informed claims about each and every detail of the universe; I have to decide whom I rely on for good information, and so has everyone else. (Don’t tell me you invented the idea of chemtrails yourself!)

    Thinking without knowledge (your’s or other’s) will bring you to conclusions like that the earth is flat and everything else revolves around it.

    Seriously, what about medical progress? About your cell phone? Your computer? Do you think these would have been possible without scientific research and collection of common knowledge? Where do you draw the line between credible and “evil” scientists? On what base do you decide who is one or the other?

  43. JFD

    I judge them by their works, that is my basis and that is my perogative. Some people are apparently not capable of judging what is evil. Is judging evil not allowed on this site ? There have been good benificial works but there have been works that put the human race in jeopardy. You chose to name the good stuff. If I am going to be in error, it will be on the side of caution. I dont know if there is global warming, but I want to act responsibly on the side of caution. You people are quite the opposite ,and with all due respect, you do not have an ironclad case on the matter that we have been discussing, it is not infallible. You want me to answer all your questions with solid facts ,no room for error with you people.Why did you itemize all the good stuff that science has created and never mention the evil weapons that I mentioned. Thats because you dont friggin want to .You people sidestep the issues with more dumb questions that you yourselves cannot answer with surety. Flat earth, jeez ,that made me think.

    For whatever reason, I can memorize Poetry, that does,nt make me a poet. You people can, read,print or copy whose ever work you choose. You can parrot it just as I do with poetry. You people do not have all the answers, just all the stunned questioning with those who have differing opinions. And it is childish, not genius. And dont let me talk you into “thinking” as well as reading,printing and copying.

  44. Judging evil is allowed on the site, I believe. But, there is no evil as far as the trails in the sky goes, There is only TRUTH and IGNORANCE. I judge YOUR evil by YOUR works though! Spreading ignorance as fact in order to recruit others into the chemtrail cult is PURE evil. Especially considering you don’t have the education to dismiss the facts as they are WELL known and WELL understood in the aviation community. Who are YOU to judge those of us who are only asking for ACTUAL EVIDENCE in this matter!? YOU condemn ME because of YOUR ignorance…yeah…some “works” THERE pal! It’s OBVIOUS that YOU have NEVER studied aviation or atmospheric science! WHY do you “believe” you are in ANY position to accuse anyone of “evil”?!?

    How does asking for ACTUAL evidence (not what some people “believe” to be) make me a bad person!? No one on this site believes these are all 100% persistent contrails…we just don’t see a SHRED of compelling evidence. You really need to get off your high-horse. I don’t recognize your self-appointed position on that pillar!~

    In MY opinion, if there is “evil” it’s the spread of fear based on ignorance. There is no reason for the chemmies to be upset. If they would only take the time to learn the facts, they wouldn’t be!

    No trail has been tested and shown to contain ANYTHING more than water vapor and combustion gases. Until such time as ANY trails is tested, and shown to contain the “chemicals” you and your “friends” claim there to be, they are persistent contrail. It’s the chemmies who are acting like Chicken Little, telling anyone who will listen that the sky is falling (metaphorically, of course) and if anyone disagrees with these Chicken Little types, they are automatically accused of working for “the government” as “shills” and “paid disinfo agents”. THAT, is evil…these people spread nothing but ignorant assumption and lies!

  45. *saneone* wrote:
    “You want me to answer all your questions with solid facts ,no room for error with you people”

    Not at all, if you tell me you don’t have any facts and that your claims about secret spraying may have been premature, I have no problem with that. (Sorry, I could not resist …)

    Seriously, if you make claims and want me to consider them, you have to come up with something more than just, well, your claims.
    And about errors: I’m sure I make lots and lots in other areas. But the subject at hand I know enough about to make a firm decision between two ways of explaining what I see. As in science, I consider both (secret spraying or random conditions) but reject one of them as highly unlikely – because of what I know to be accepted facts, what I think people are capable of (and what they’re not) and what comes from my own flying experience.

    Coming back once more to the subject of science:
    Don’t you agree that knowledge and research can be used for good as well as for bad applications? It’s not the fault of Nature’s laws and not the fault of those who researched them if they are used for destruction (or deterrence).
    The question is: do you accept that there ARE laws of natures (and more every day as new ones are discovered)? And if you do, why would you not accept the scientific explanations about things you see in the sky?

    You obviously accepted the idea of chemtrails as a fact. Did you consider how credible the people are who brought up that idea?

  46. Must be nice to be so insulated from having to think on your own, independently

    Please, tell me how your independant thought came to the conclusion that “normal” contrails are safe?

    And how your independant thought came to the conclusion that persistent contrails aren’t safe.

    Face it. Neither of them came from independant thought.

  47. Did I not say that I know there is science for good and science for evil.? I just separated the weapons of mass destruction from what JDF listed ie cell phones as wonderful stuff. And I should forget everything else. Sorry , Have had enough of your gang type juvenile crap. There have been too many mistatements and omissions regarding things that I have said in you kindergarten type answers. Time will tell who is closer to the truth. Good luck, I hope you people are right for the sake of all our children. Its just that as an example, some idiots insist on sending their kids to illegal, murderous wars and yet claim sanity.

    Bye Bye I have had enuff of this gang style buillshit.

  48. *saneone* wrote:
    “some idiots insist on sending their kids to illegal, murderous wars and yet claim sanity”

    I’m absolutely with you in that respect. And I don’t like the destructive applications of science either. And yes, you mentioned the beneficial works of science in your post, so my question about that was unnecessary; you are right there.

    The point I still want to make is that knowledge itself is something valuable and desirable. You wrote about those many “educated fools” and I have gotten the impression that you tend to reject education – the intake of knowledge – alltogether. Please correct me if that impression is wrong.

    Nobody will object if you say knowledge without proper thinking is useless. But my point is that thinking without proper knowledge is just as useless.

    Can you agree?

  49. Its always educated fools that get us into the wars. Not the lunchbox joe and joannes.

    Do you think I dont read? THat I am illiterate?

    Whuy dont you people have a little tongue wag on the subject of Barium. No not one word thatI have seen on this site. You people disregard anything that might infringe on your narrow arguments to the affect that “Oh we are all well read and educated and you saneone are an idiot” and then ask idiotic questiopns over and over again. What do you know about the affects of Barium on humans and animals ? You must know that THEY have been spraying Barium for years into our atmosphere. Yolu must know what SOME scientists state the affects are? I saw the planes spraying the patterns over m y town for months but according to you quasi scientists, everyone else in the world are nuts. And by the way I would gladly measure IQ with any of you. I worked for 35 years in a job where I was responsible for guiding trains over the rails. Trains dont run on highways like cars,trucks etc. They have to have train orders telling them where to meet,pass,wait,etc. I never had an accident,I guided passengers, hundreds of thousands,every sort of cargo imaginable. I never had a demerit mark on my record. As an employee,I was respected by The Canadaian National Railway. So please dont think that I am brain dead. So why not have a discussion on Barium and the affects of it. Do you deny that it is a known fact even by governments that Barium seeding or spraying has been going on for years. Just one of the affects is upper respiratory infections. And there are more.Jeez hope I didnt spell a word wrong or this will be automatically thrown out, since I am on the wrong side of the fence. So please people expound on Barium and its affects.

  50. ” There have been too many mistatements and omissions regarding things that I have said in you kindergarten type answers.”

    Really?! Please let us know where we have wronged you and we can back up and discuss anything we made misstatements/omissions about.

    “Bye Bye I have had enuff of this gang style buillshit.”

    See ya soon!

    “Do you think I dont read? THat I am illiterate?”\

    About atmospheric science?! I don’t think you read non-fiction literature on the subject. About the science that explains the trails in the sky?!? Yes, I think you are illiterate. Either you have rejected the known science that easily explains the trails in the sky, or you have never read it. Not only that, you are unaware of how little evidence there is to support the “chemtrail” myth. All you have is the ignorance you have leaned from various websites and uneducated chemmies, and misunderstandings about what is seen and reported on the subject. And that’s about this PARTICULAR subject.
    I’m NOT saying you are an idiot, I’m just saying that you haven’t researched this subject as much as you “believe” you have. How could I POSSIBLY know how much research you have done?! How DARE I even think about writing that…right?! Because it’s JUST THAT OBVIOUS! I’m sorry, the science is ROCK SOLID here.

    Do these trails look and behave like persistent contrails? YES!
    Is there ANY evidence that there is ANYTHING being “sprayed” from the airplanes that produce the trails in the sky (other than persistent contrails)? NO!

    Done deal as far as I can see!~ People can make all the assumptions they want…and they can bring up stories about people admitting to “spraying” things into the air…and the stories may be TRUE…but that doesn’t mean that the trails over my house and in these videos are anything but persistent contrails. The “claim” that they are anything more is unsubstantiated. That is a fact!

    I think most people make the same mistake. They read about something happening in the sky, like “secret operations” of whatever type…and then they look up…and in their minds they put pieces together that shouldn’t necessarily BE put together…and they assume that the trails they see are part of the “program” they read about. It may SEEM logical to do so, but in reality, what the person did has NOTHING to do with science and logic! There is NO EVIDENCE to link one thing to the other! There is ONLY assumption! And it’s VERY sad that the chemmies are completely UNABLE to see that they make one assumption after another, after another, until their whole belief system is one huge assumption.

    Personally, I would be willing to change my mind and fight for the “right” team if some ACTUAL evidence were to surface. So far I see nothing more than the assumptions of people who obviously haven’t studied the subjects as well as I have. I see no reason to believe anything else!

    Is it possible that BOTH things are true? That the trails I see in the sky ARE persistent contrails and nothing else. And that somewhere, someone is “spraying chemicals” into the sky as part of a geoengineering program?! Absolutely! How do you know that what “they” “spray” is even VISIBLE to the naked eye?! How do you know if what “they” “spray” even ends up as a “trail” shape and not just “released” as a cloud shape? How do you know “they” aren’t “spraying” their “chemicals” at a MUCH higher altitude and you just cant see them?!

    The idea that one thing (admissions that “they” “spray”) and another thing (the trails in the sky) have anything to do with each other is an ASSUMPTION. And assumptions are absolutely WORTHLESS in the search for truth!

    If anyone can link the trails in the sky to ANY “spray program” without making a SINGLE assumption, I’d LOVE to see that! I would then be a chemmie for life!

    “Do you deny that it is a known fact even by governments that Barium seeding or spraying has been going on for years”

    I don’t deny experimentation with barium on some level. I’m sure EVERY element is involved in experimentation somewhere at sometime! What I fail to see is the connection between this and the trails in the sky. Can you link the two things without making any assumptions?! NO!

    Which is why we keep asking for evidence!

  51. @saneone

    “Whuy dont you people have a little tongue wag on the subject of Barium. No not one word thatI have seen on this site.”

    I think that you need to look closely at the site. http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/ for example.

    “Did I not say that I know there is science for good and science for evil.? I just separated the weapons of mass destruction from what JDF listed ie cell phones as wonderful stuff. ”

    Thinking that you can separate “good” and “evil” in science is quite foolish. Said cell phones and their supporting infrastructure is chock full of technology which was developed for military purposes. Primary research in chemistry and biology can lead to new medicinal drugs, recrational drugs, fertilisers, explosives, insecitides and chemical weapons. So, good or evil?

  52. How about the Aluminum Oxide that is being sprayed, is that good for humans and other animals to consume through their lungs.

    And how many of you people are being paid to run this site? . I dont think it is just unicus. Truth please. (Yes, I know there are some that are not paid)

  53. @saneone

    You are just moving goalposts now, and of course ignoring any facts that go against your convivtion.

    By the way, as train dispatcher you are personally responsible for aiding and abetting those murderous, illegal wars.

  54. Ok- I’ll come clean. I get paid quite a bit to post here. I usually fly to my destination (while chemtrailing of course) and sit in a hotel where I have nothing better to do than occasionally work out, eat, and post on web sites like this one. Although it’s not spelled out in my contract for obvious reasons it goes without saying that I will routinely debunk chemtrails when not actually creating them. So unfortunately while I can’t specifically state what portion of my salary goes toward posting I would guess around 25%.

  55. @ Capt… LOL

    I hate when people think because of an opposing view = paid agent. What straight up paranoid assumption is that? If they did pay, they can Western Union me the cash. I really need money to buy a home so I can get out of this apartment. I have a grandma on the floor above me who won’t stop ringing the doorbell. Everyday…. I want a home without crazy babushki…. So anyone who will Western Union money into the “We Love Artyom Fund”, also known as We LAF( as in laugh Ha ha), would be GREATLY appreciated.
    Still doesn’t change fact that nothing here, on this site, has been disproved. It is a lame misdirection attempt. Attack the subject not the messenger.

    And where is that proof for spraying aluminum oxide? They are just claims. However, the harmful effects of aluminum are studied. And a lot of cases are linked to acid rain. Reference As for Alumina itself, Alumina Reference . As one can see it would be used pretty much in all industrial processes of forming aluminum as in cans, lids, cars, and endless variables that can lead to toxins from many source being present. With absolutely no proof they are spraying Aluminum, then there is nothing to base a fact on let alone a belief.

  56. “I hate when people think because of an opposing view = paid agent.”

    I get it several times a day. As soon as I get that one from someone, it becomes obvious that the person doesn’t want to know the truth. It’s the epitome of paranoid assumptions and instantly labels/pigeon holes the person in my head.

    Like I need to be paid to ask people to learn the facts from reputable/reliable sources (such as a professor who is qualified to teach the subject to others). It’s what I did, and I sleep fine knowing that my family isn’t being sprayed like bugs…well, at least there isn’t any appreciable evidence to suggest any such thing. Just the same old assumption and misunderstandings (ignorance is the way I prefer to understand it) on the part of the chemmies…

  57. Yes, no kidding… like sitting here on the site while I watch the Russia vs Makadoniya football game is difficult. Russia just won 1 – 0, but they played horrible. Anyways, they spend similar amounts on the web as us. I think under their own logic, they too could be paid for it. lol….. This theory does provide moments of comic relief that gives me good laughs. Although, if I didn’t care about Chemtrail believers, I wouldn’t even bother writing and referencing articles as much as I do. I am worried about the ones who believe it and are afraid due to an ignorance of the atmosphere. My life with science left me with good life tools. There is more to science than a degree and a lab coat. I know contrails are contrails. I also know about a lot of REAL spraying, but it has nothing to do with Contrails. I try to set people in the right direction, but many of those who come here just write that this is just a disinfo site. It doesn’t help either… But there are always the special ones, that come here, that make us smile…. ))))) Unfortunately, they are likely the reasons why the ones who are afraid feel that way in the first place.

  58. I am laughing, I mean actually with no control whatso-ever. LOL.

    I got promoted by tarhim. Now ,as a train dispatcher I am responsible for murderous,illegal wars. Oh my God how deep does this asshole have to dig to come up with that. tarhim, do you have a job? Maybe like , cleanup man at McDonalds?

    Are you anywhere near a mental facility. Check in please, before your malady becomes chronic. In advance, Merry Christmas to you, at wherever it is that you are admitted at that time. I wish you all the best, I know you are not a bad person, just a bit sick.And attend some group meetings while you are confined.

  59. “I am laughing, I mean actually with no control whatso-ever. LOL.”

    So am I! Apparently someone didn’t “get it”!


    “And by the way I would gladly measure IQ with any of you.”

    High IQ?! I think you need to educate yourself about WHAT, exactly, that means! That doesn’t mean that just because you believe something, it’s true (as evidenced in the case of your “beliefs”)! People with high IQ’s are just as likely to accept bad information as fact. As a matter of fact, they may be MORE likely to convince themselves that nonsense is true because in their minds, they couldn’t possibly be wrong! I have ALSO tested at a high IQ level. So what?! That doesn’t make me any more or less able to discern bad information from good, automatically!

    “IQ measures the brightness of our mental searchlight. But where we point it also matters.”

  60. sanone wrote:

    “Do you deny that it is a known fact even by governments that Barium seeding or spraying has been going on for years.”

    Yes, I deny it! Please provide evidence from a NON-conspiracy related source to back up your claim! Please provide evidence that this “spraying” has anything to do with the trails in the sky.

    I can’t wait!

  61. “Now ,as a train dispatcher I am responsible for murderous,illegal wars. ”

    I am simply applying similar kind of logic to your occupation as you apply to scientists. I don’t really think that any facts can change your mind (since you already know everything best), so I’m aiming for change of your delivery now.

    By the way, Manhattan Projects scientists knew very well what they are researching and building. Would you call them evil?

    “do you have a job?”

    Well, I do work for my reptillian overlords which say to me in dreams which truth needs to be supressed this week. Does that count?

  62. tarhim….no you werent. You thought it would get passed logic. Because you have no logic,no ability to think outside the box you live in. You appaude of course the crud that we are so lucky to have all the advancements that Scientists have given us. Cell Phone Computer etc etc etc etc adnauisem. Stupidity. tarhim what is it that you do for a living.If you are living in the greatest country in the world ( in their own eyes) the late great usa ,you may or may not have a job, you8 may or may not have a house, you may or may not be on food stamps (Which will be cut off sooner or later, probably sooner. Nation of disgrace, warmongerers becauee of stupidity and have drawn my country into your fuckihng wars, costing us billions,sending our kids to fight ,kill and be killed ijn another American Bankers War,you idiots. Reason I am on here tonight is that there were two, God Damn Well Not commercial aircraft that came ihn from the north and sprayed there shit over us again. One thing I wish I had was a heat seeking missle powerful enoufgh to shoot the fuckers down. Wouyld I do it, your fucking right I would. Then what would I be characterized as by Americans, the one celled entity claiming human connection, I would be labelled a (TERRORIST) just like the C Suckers label anyone from any country that fights back. You Fascists Pricks.

  63. I love when people who, when they believe things that have no evidence to support them, automatically whip out something like “Because you have no logic,no ability to think outside the box you live in.” As if that somehow proves their position in the matter and it’s case closed! I’m sorry, EVERYONE is ABLE to “think outside the box”! Convincing yourself that what you come up with is “fact”, is a whole other issue!
    I really wish one of you psychos would get the balls to shoot down an airplane that’s leaving a trail! That would be the end of the chemmies! As soon as the images of the strewn clothing and charred dollies/bodies are all over the news, it would become INSTANTLY clear, that what you people thought were military “spray planes” were nothing but commercial airliners doing EXACTLY what we have been claiming…creating artificial clouds in the atmosphere by exhausting water vapor into a very cold and supersaturated parts of the atmosphere.

    You WOULD be a terrorist, and you would also be WRONG! You would be fighting based on your ignorance about what you see…not because of some noble ideals! I can’t wait for this to happen, actually..and then maybe someone will remove you treasonous and uneducated (in the subjects of aviation and atmospheric science) bastards from the face of the planet. Hanging isn’t good enough for you liars/traitors. I hope they bring burning at the stake back!

    “You Fascists Pricks.”

    Coming from you, hilarious.

  64. Written by saneone on October 12, 2010. “How about the Aluminum Oxide that is being sprayed, is that good for humans and other animals to consume through their lungs.”

    aluminium oxide? that completely inert substance that forms really quickly on the surface of any elemental aluminium exposed to the atmosphere and is what makes aluminum so corrosion resistant?

    Like on your boat, your cooking utensils, your can of coke?

    The aluminium chloride in your antipesperant/deodorant is more of a danger than any aluminium oxide anywhere – and it is well known and has been for years. In high doses it is a neurotoxin.

    No need to spray it at 30,000 feet when we’re spraying it right into our armpits!! :/

    You do know, don’t you, that aluminium is the 3rd most common element on hte planet, and maybe 60% of all soils include aluminium in the form of feldspar??

  65. saneone has shown that he/she is clearly not sane at all. saneone has also proven once again that practically all chemtrailers end up ranting, swearing and calling people names at some point in time.

  66. Mike:

    You do know, don’t you, that aluminium is the 3rd most common element on the planet, and maybe 60% of all soils include aluminium in the form of feldspar??

    It’s CLAY, dammit, CLAY!
    CLAY is aluminium phyllosilicate.
    “Clay minerals are typically formed over long periods of time by the gradual chemical weathering of rocks, usually silicate-bearing, by low concentrations of carbonic acid and other diluted solvents. These solvents, usually acidic, migrate through the weathering rock after leaching through upper weathered layers. In addition to the weathering process, some clay minerals are formed by hydrothermal activity. Clay deposits may be formed in place as residual deposits in soil, but thick deposits usually are formed as the result of a secondary sedimentary deposition process after they have been eroded and transported from their original location of formation. Clay deposits are typically associated with very low energy depositional environments such as large lakes and marine deposits.” – WIKI

  67. Hah! I see your wiki quote and raise you one that actually has numbers in it! :p

    “Feldspars (KAlSi3O8 – NaAlSi3O8 – CaAl2Si2O8) are a group of rock-forming tectosilicate minerals which make up as much as 60% of the Earth’s crust.”


    so there 🙂

  68. Oh wait, some member of GLP noticed:


    I was in Washington D.C. For the “Restore Sanity” rally this past weekend. The first thing that my friends and I noticed upon surface from the metro, was all of the XXXX’s is the sky.

    They were huge and they were everywhere!! It was insane. It looked like sky writing, and it was so obvious!Everybody in my group were stunned, but most people in D.C. that day didn’t seem to notice. There was active spraying the entire afternoon in Washington and Virginia.

  69. I thought there was an article about trails in movies, but it seems to have disappeared. Uncinus, have you been cleaning house? I just wanted to mention the persistent contrails in the movie Mousehunt during the scene where the brothers ride the tub out the front door. They are obvious, and there are many of them (including the almost complete cloud cover that so many say never happened back then). This movie was released in 1997 but was filmed during the previous year. That would put those trails in the sky two years before William Thomas first saw the trails and coined the non-word “chemtrails”.

  70. Gentlemen,

    It has been a while. It does appear that “saneone” of past posts is gaining an edge on legitimacy as the history channel now provides a good clip on the discussion taken from a documentary (see below). I have not visited for sometime but was prompted to do so by a call from Pennsylvania which was clearly additional input from an 80 plus year old relative, a former mechanical engineer. His discussion, unprompted, was actually in a way confirming in many ways. Interestingly he was quite vocal and concerned intensly by what he coined to be deliberate and non stop “spraying” in the air close to Greensburg PA. You gentlemen may be having a a bit of a contest soon. Imagine having to join the dark side. Cheers and Merry Christmas.

  71. Very little cumulus cloud in that and what is cumuli level? Cumulus is a type of cloud not a level. Cumulus defines vertical development, not the level at which the cloud forms. Sigh.

  72. That “panacea-boecaf” site is multiple sources?? I think not – it is all teh same sources as always, plus this little bit of ignorance:

    “This article CANNOT explain how the observed “trails” expand to create clouds. This has been shown extensively on time lapse photography. It is impossible for a cruising jet aircraft to generate sufficient moisture in the ambient atmosphere surrounding and allow for a cloud to form naturally. Unless it there is manipulation of the laws of physics, this miniscule amount of moisture cannot grow and expand to create cloud.”

    Actually the laws of physics have had this covered for a long time, and yes the “miniscule amount of moisture” CAN “grow and expand to create a cloud” – look up nucleation some time.

    Even other “chemtrail” sites acknowledge nucleation – although this one is all over metal particles as being the reason, not ice crystals as the UK Met scientist mentins in the interview ….http://chemtrails.cc/2010/04/19/uk-met-office-fails-to-acknowledge-particulate-aerosol-responsible-for-cloud-nucleation/

  73. I watched a bit of it. It’s a plane dumping fuel. What’s the question exactly?

    And why is such a vast amount of the “chemtrail” evidence presented in the form of long YouTube videos? Why can’t you write it down?

  74. Basically it is someone saying they penetrated the security of “Operation Cloverleaf” – the purported USAF secret spraying programme. that people have been killed for what they know (no one is named), that someone involved in aircraft design is in a federal jail for “what they know” (again not named), that this guy & an associate are the only peole ever to have been inside the programme (presumably apart from the thousands who must be taking part), that thsi is the only way the secret will get out (again presumably apart from anyone else in the programme splilling the beans?), that he’s a patriot (and presumably therefore anyone who opposes him is not) and a nice comment that he lives jsut down the road from where “Give me liberty or give me death” was spoken in 1775.

    All to a background af the jet dumping fuel, with a comment on screen that if it can “spray fuel” then it can spray chemicals.

    So not a single peice of verifiable evidence.

    but not making any mention that they can only “spray” what is in the fuel tanks – ‘cos that’s where they spray the fuel from….duh! so if they’re spraying something evil then they do not have fuel in the tanks…boy that’d limit ioperations – I wonder how they get transoceanic with no gas in their wing tanks??

    For those without technical knowledge of aircraft structures & systems – the piping and pumps used to dump fuel are the same ones used to pump it to the engines – with an extension outboard to the trailing edge and a valve to shut that off in normal operations.

    There’s a scehmatic of a 727 fuel piping system at – http://www.boeing-727.com/Data/systems/schematic%20aircraft%20fuel%20system.html I thought of uploading it, but it seems like a waste of bandwidth! Note that the fuel dump lines are in green – and are the same lines as the refuleing lines!

    In flight the plan’s own fuel pumps in the tanks can pressurise the dump lines through the “dump SOV” (Shut off valve) about 1/4 way out the right wing. Then the nozzle valves at each nozzle can be opened to dump the fuel.

    When refueling all these valves are shut ad the fueling SOV’s are open – so the fuel gets into the tanks instead of onto the tarmac!

    for this system to be being used to dump anything but fuel, every mechanic working on the aircraft across the whole world would ahve to be in on it, because they would have to know at least how to defer any faults that showed up, even if they did not fix it. And so would every pilot – because they would actualy have to be doing the dumping!

    If anyone is interested I can probably upload a 777 fuel system schematic – I’ll have to check a CD to get it, but it shouldn’t be much of a problem – it is essentially the same.

  75. It’s an interesting optical illusion, due to the additive transparency of clouds. Unfortunately it’s a little difficult to explain – a bit like the “black line” problem.

    Basically you can’t tell if a contrail is in front of clouds that don’t block any light. The “dark” areas of thin clouds are actually transparent, so while it looks like the bright white contrail is in front of them, it’s actually behind them. Your mind expects the “dark” areas to block the contrail, so your perception is reversed.

  76. B777 fuel dump system component locations – direct from the Boeing 777 training manual.
    [img]http://contrailscience.com/wp-content/uploads/777 fuel dump.JPG[/img]

    Note that the fuel dump manifold is also the piping that refueling is done through, as it is in hte 727 version linked to above.

  77. “additive transparency”. nice one, thank you. I knew there had to be a name for the fact that a cloud isn’t white and blue, it’s white and transparent.

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