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“Chemtrail” Aircraft Photos

Several planes look a little odd, or have attachments that look odd, and so some people feel they must be part of a decades long conspiracy to spray stuff into the atmosphere to alter the weather or reduce the population. That’s obviously nonsense, but what are these strange planes?

[Update: there are many other photos like the “barrel” interior below, I’ve collected a lot of them on Metabunk]

Here’s one making the rounds, scary looking barrels, and a sign on the wall that possibly says “Hazmat inside”

chemtrail-inners3.jpg

What is it? It’s a Boeing 777-200LR Worldliner, specifically it’s WD001, a plane that was used for flight testing. The original photo can be found here – note the “Hazmat” text was added later. The barrels contain water, which is pumped around to shift the center of gravity to test various flight characteristics.

Here’s a description of a similar setup from the 2002 book, “Inside Boeing, Building the 777”, page 76., describing tests done in 1994.

From Boeing’s blog:

Remember, we test at the extremes of the weight/CG envelope. This requires us to control the CG during ground and flight conditions. We can move weight, in the form of water, forward or aft with the use of the water ballast system. This system is comprised of 48 barrels, each capable of carrying 460 pounds, connected by tubing to a pump. A computerized system tracks fuel placement, fuel burn, people placement, ballast, flap setting, landing gear position and water barrel quantity. The information is processed to display the airplane’s current CG. We move water or specify fuel tank usage to configure the CG within the specified test requirements.

Why are there overhead luggage compartments? It’s a test plane, and for FAA certification they have to demonstrate that everything works. That includes stuff like the emergency oxygen system, and more minor things like the luggage compartments. It’s a requirement that they don’t pop open in flight – so that needs to be tested. They are also handy for stowing the engineers’ stuff.

Here’s some pictures from Boeing:

wd001_group_interior_sm.jpgwdoo1_interior_sm.jpg

And a lot more photos can be found on Boeing’s site.

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This one gets a lot of use in the “chemtrail” forums:

chemtrailplaneonground1forum.jpg

Particularly because of the unusual collections of pipes sticking out in various places. There’s those two at the front, and then there is a group over the wing. Here’s some close ups

chemtrailplaneonground2forum.jpg:

chemtrailplaneonground3forum.jpg

Very sinister looking tubes, but why are half of them facing the wrong way?

The plane is not for spraying the atmosphere, it’s for sampling the atmosphere. It’s a research aircraft, registration N701BN, operated by th e department of energy’s national labs. It’s pretty much one of a kind, so it’s hardly likely to be responsible for all the persistent contrails we see every day. The research is mostly on pollutants in the atmosphere, particularly from coal and oil burning power plants. But they also investigate the properties of clouds, which includes contrails.

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Here’s another photo you see in “chemtrail” videos, with the implied suggestion that it’s some kind of evil spraying device:

nkc-135-attachment.jpg

Actually it IS a spraying device, but quite innocuous. It’s on an NKC-135A (55-3128) with the refueling boom modified to spray water. This used by the air force to test icing of planes in flight.

Here’s the original photo:

See also: https://www.safaq.hq.af.mil/news/march04/raptor.html

nkc-135-spays-water-test-icing-raptorbig.jpg

Here’s some more details:

nkc-135-icing-attachmentpv1983_2688.pdf

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This plane is quite interesting:

e6-below-from-tacamoorg.jpg

It’s an E-6B “Tacamo”. This photo shows it dumping fuel (photo from tacamo.org). The E-6B is used by the United States Strategic Command as an airborne communication center. You can see the navy logo on the right wing. The E-6B is a modified version of the Boeing 707-320, and the fuel vents have been moved from the wing tips to between the fuselage and the engines in order to separate it from the communication equipment in the wing tips. This is what the wing-tip ESM/SATCOM pod looks like:

navy-e6-070403-03cr-6.jpg

It looks like this odd assemblage is also creating some wingtip vortex contrails as well. The plane is pretty much all white, which is something you hear mentioned from time to time in “chemtrail” conspiracy theories.

Here’s another photo of the same plane, taken from a “chemtrail” YouTube video:

e6b-tail-youtube.jpg

It shows the opening and drogue  for the ELF trailing wire antenna. This is a very long wire antenna that is extended behind the plane for several hundred feet and used for communications with submarines. The “drogue” is just a cone-shaped weight. Here’s a close-up

http://www.flickr.com/photos/coldwararchaeology/5180470207/in/photostream

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This plane also looks at first glance like it might be dumping fuel (click image for full sized photo):

But the trails are actually coming from six smoke generators. It was part of a NASA test to study wake vortices, you can read about it here:

http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/B-747/HTML/ECN-4242.html

Six smoke generators were installed under the wings of the 747 to provide a visual image of the trailing vortices. The object of the experiments was to test different configurations and mechanical devices on the747 that could be used to break up or lessen the strength of the vortices. The results of the tests could lead to shorter spacing between landings and takeoffs, which, in turn, could alleviate air-traffic congestion.

Here’s another image of the same plane:

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This plane also occasionally get brought up in chemtrail conspiracy groups:

This is obviously not a contrail, it’s far too low and the trail is dropping too rapidly.

It’s a Boeing 747-100 “Supertanker”, modified by Evergreen Aviation, the only one of its kind. Specifically designed for fire fighthing. That’s it dumping water.   Here’s some more recent photos.

Here’s a video of it in action, titled “B747 chemtrails”. It’s interesting reading the comments, as the first comment correctly identifies what it is, and then everyone else just ignores that and starts speculating.

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This one looks like a plane spraying stuff. But again it’s rather close to the ground. It’s actually taking off with the assistance of rockets. It’s not spraying, that’s just rocket exhaust.

762px-boeing_b-47b_rocket-assistedw.jpg

This particular plane is a Boeing B-47B, rocket assisted take off, April 15, 1954. An no, that’s not a contrail in the sky behind it – it’s rip in the photo. Click on it for a large version from Wikipedia.

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This one is used for cloud seeding. It does not actually spray anything but uses silver iodine flares that are either ejected, or burn in place.

sandylandwater-slide7.jpg

It’s operated by the Sandy land Underground Water Conservation district of Plains, Texas, as part of their SOAR program. They have some more photos of similar equipment on their site. They are all small aircraft not capable of getting to the above 30,000 feet where contrails normally form.

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This next photo is also of silver iodine flares, fixed underneath at large plane.

weathermod-eject_rack1.jpg

These also show up in “chemtrail” literature. They are sold by Weather Modification Inc, they make a range of weather modification equipment. About this one they say:

WMI racks for ejectable flares are mounted on the belly of the aircraft fuselage. Each rack holds 102 cartridges. When fired, the pyrotechnic is ignited and ejected from the aircraft. In this configuration, the WMI Lear 35A is equipped with four 102-count racks for ejectable glaciogenic pyrotechnics, a total of 408 flares.

Here’s another, this time from North American Weather Consultants, Inc.

seedinggen_nawc.jpg

About which they say:

This aircraft-mounted cloud seeding generator is fixed in place, and can burn a silver iodide solution during flight.

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This one is the “Mk.32 drogue-type underwing pod on the Armée de l’Air Boeing C-135FR Stratotanker” (“93-CC”- s/n 63-8472 of GRV 93). It’s an in-flight refueling system on a French Boeing C-135FR Stratotanker, photographed in Canada, Feb 2005.


See: http://www.baha.be/Webpages/Navigator/News/tanker_flight_240205.htm

The following is supposed to be a plane that has “chemtrail aerosol nozzles” over three of the engines.

In reality, this plane N707MQ is a Boeing 707-320B. The engines are Pratt & Whitney JT3D-3:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Omega-Tanker/Boeing-707-321B/1622886/M/

It should be perfectly obvious that the “nozzles” are facing the wrong way to be spraying anything. They are actually turbocompressors, which are driven by engine bleed air, and are used to pressurize the interior of the plane. There are only three, as that’s all you need. Here’s a discussion:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/8225/

 

 

1,442 thoughts on ““Chemtrail” Aircraft Photos

  1. Suntour says:

    By SciGuy2012:

    “-Some people are disinformation agents both solo and employed to do so.”
    “U guys would argue the sky being blue or the grass being green if the president said otherwise.”

    “An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: “argument to the man”, “argument against the man”) consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.” – Wikipedia

    By SciGuy2012:
    “Official documents and hard evidence limits us to only one standard of evidence”

    Please, by all means post YOUR evidence that “chemtrails” look and behave differently than contrails, since you aren’t willing to take scientific data and 7 decades of photographic proof for it.

  2. SR1419 says:

    U guys would argue the sky being blue or the grass being green if the president said otherwise.

    …I can only speak for myself- but that comment is not true….

    I am highly sceptical of authority and the US Government….just as I am equally sceptical of shrill “chemtrail” websites telling me the sky is falling….

    That does not mean I do not believe in science, and the scientific method…which in fact, allows me to disregard authority and find out for myself.

    When someone tells me “contrails dissipate- chemtrails don’t”…

    …I can actually do the research and know for myself if that is true or not….

    …and it turns out it is NOT true…and contrails CAN persist…for hours…and spread…and cover the sky in a Haze….

    When someone tells me gaps in a trail are definitive evidence of a “sprayer” in use…because “normal” contrails cannot do that….

    …I can actually do the research and know for myself if that is true or not….

    …and turns out that is NOT true…contrails CAN and often DO have gaps in them for a variety of reasons…

    When someone tells me that proof of “chemtrails” is evidenced in the site of 2 planes in the sky with one leaving a persistent trail and one leaving a rapidly dissipating trail….

    ……I can actually do the research and know for myself if that is true or not….

    …and turns out that is NOT true…contrails in the same sky CAN and often DO have a variety of behaviors for a variety of reasons…

    …and on and on….every claim regarding the behavior of supposed “chemtrails” has already been established as a known behavior of contrails…

    It is simple fact.

    It is this Thinking and Learning for myself that had lead me to my conclusions…it is the research that has uncovered historical precedent based on scientific fact, from scientists from around the World, that has lead my to my beliefs…

    Contrails are not a human emotion…they can be touched, studied, known and the behavior defined and accepted as fact.

    I do not believe you can truly look up in the sky and “know” the persistent trail you see in the sky is of nefarious intent simply because you feel it….

  3. BlackIrishToung says:

    Hey Uncinus…

    74 posts after my post (#226) and still nobody answers my claim.. I guess I was right about the chem-heads.. all about assumptions.. or All bark and no Bite as we used to say.. Professor Plumb with the Candlestick.. In the Library.. But the library was really a garage, Professor Plumb was a pseudonym and to para-phrase the Matrix… There is no Candlestick!

    SHOW ME PROOF! they say that a true conspiracy can never be proven… but it’s RESULTS are ALWAYS evident.. SHOW ME!! I want to SEE the super bioagent… I want to SEE the damage it has done! I want to KNOW that my mind has been altered!! I liked peanut butter and cheese sandwiches as a kid (on toasted white bread of course), and my favorite color is still GREEN and my hair is still (mostly) BLACK.. Don’t just ctrl+C somebody’s article… dont just link somebody’s YouTube…

    Love always
    BlackIrishToung

  4. M4rty Muso says:

    The chemtrails are not a mass genicide to kill everyone. They also are not contrails that have expanded.

    I’ll tell you why…

    Planes have been in the skies for many years, and its only been recently that people are noticing things that aren’t quite right. Millions of people are not retards looking at the sky and thinking someone is poisoning us but we are looking for a simple answer. There are scientists that say the chemtrails are real along wiht goverment officers, ex CIA etc and there are the equal opposition to this. The fact that the German goverment admitted to dumping chemicals in the sky and are now facing a court battle is of course one big lie is it?

    Also why doesn’t anyone have a straight answer? Why do they appear more often now than ever? Why do some planes release them flying at the same time on similar paths and some planes do not? Why do goverment funded enviroment agency’s ignore people when they say they have samples for analysis??

    Why do the trails look nothing like typical contrails ever, they look like what contrails can ‘sometimes appear like’? which people say ironicaly look like fanned out vapour clods causing a hazy mist. I can agree with this on occasion but whenever these things come out they always fan out and look hazey….

    http://www.bariumblues.com

  5. SciGuy2012 says:

    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Research chemtrails using both hemispheres of the brain. Be skeptical but reasonable and spiritually logical.

  6. stars15k says:

    Be skeptical but reasonable and spiritually logical

    ROFLOL. “Spiritually logical”? Interesting.
    But you are missing a very big point. Research “chemtrails” and you will find stories about chemtrails. Research CONTRAILS, and you’ll find the facts.
    And years of absence of evidence usually means there is no evidence. So contrails decades of study, by experts in many fields, producing thousands of peer-reviewed published works trumps any “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence” in my book.
    And the sky is blue because it refracts blue wavelengths and grass is green because chlorophyll reflects green more than the chloroplasts reflect their color. The president has nothing to do with either one, never has and never will.

  7. SciGuy2012 says:

    spiritually logic…. trust your gut, your inner voice. Your gut instinct is the accumulation of all your knowledge and experiences. Please, forgive me for my choice of words that you seem to find highly amusing. I suppose you are just an accident of cells within nature that make up a human being who will never admit that they might or could be wrong about anything.

    I suppose 9/11 was also 100% according to the official government version to you too, yes?
    2 aluminum planes took down 3 steel structured buildings. 2 Full Size American passenger airplanes flown into the WTC with such precision by terrorists from Saudi Arabia who never really had much time or experience to practice such maneuvers. Those aluminum planes must have weighted soooo much more than all that office furniture and equipment, on each floor, not including the other floors that the structure also had to support above the “planes.”

    -Did I have all my punctuation and grammar correct enough for you folks? I know if I miss a comma or misspell any words, I will be instantly discredited and ridiculed, making any validity of my statements dismissed and discredited. This also applies if I believe in UFOs, if I am just a journalist, detective, researcher, biologist, former scientist, etc. If I like to wear yellow shirts and I post valid information (not manipulated PDF documents – you were seriously reaching there), will that make any difference in swaying the beliefs you hold and have held and defended in here for so long now? Please enlighten us all….. what will it take to convince you anything exists?

  8. JazzRoc says:

    M4rty Muso

    The chemtrails are not a mass genicide to kill everyone.
    Correct. They don’t exist.

    They also are not contrails that have expanded.
    Incorrect. From the paper “Contrails to Cirrus—Morphology, Microphysics, and Radiative Properties”: http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/atlas_JAMC2006.pdf “The average ice water per meter along the length of the contrail is 16 Kg per meter.” That means a 5000 kilometer flight (THROUGH SATURATED AIR) would put down 80,000 tons of ICE.

    Planes have been in the skies for many years, and its only been recently that people are noticing things that aren’t quite right.
    Incorrect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXwVWMx3B04

    Millions of people are not retards looking at the sky and thinking someone is poisoning us but we are looking for a simple answer.
    Searching for “chemtrails” will ALWAYS give you an INCORRECT answer. Searching for “contrails” will give you a comprehensive picture of the effects of gas turbine exhaust in the stratosphere. But you must first learn how the stratosphere differs from the troposphere in which we all live.

    There are scientists that say the chemtrails are real along wiht goverment officers, ex CIA etc and there are the equal opposition to this.
    There are THOUSANDS of scientists which say otherwise and have published hundreds of research papers on contrails over the last fifty years.
    Google search “paper aviation saturated atmosphere contrails -chemtrails -aerosols” and see what you find.

    The fact that the German goverment admitted to dumping chemicals in the sky and are now facing a court battle is of course one big lie is it?
    Yes. They didn’t do any such thing. http://contrailscience.com/germans-admit-they-used-duppel/

    Also why doesn’t anyone have a straight answer?
    They do, but you don’t look for it, cannot interpret it, and don’t believe it.

    Why do they appear more often now than ever?
    There are FIFTY TIMES more aircraft in the skies than there were fifty years ago. They are putting FIFTY TIMES more ICE into the stratosphere (which cannot rain it out – there’s NO rain in the stratosphere – it’s FAR too cold).

    Why do some planes release them flying at the same time on similar paths and some planes do not?
    Because both the water output of the planes and the local stratospheric humidity are variable: when the ambient humidity is sufficiently high, the trail ice cannot sublime to vapor, and must remain in the sky – as ICE.

    Why do goverment funded enviroment agency’s ignore people when they say they have samples for analysis??
    Because they have already done the science and know the results. Because air samplers all over the country tell the same story: no excessive amounts of barium or aluminum. Because such samples are taken unscientifically, which means they are useless.

    Why do the trails look nothing like typical contrails ever, they look like what contrails can ’sometimes appear like’?
    See above for what happens with trails in a supersaturated stratosphere: they can accrue up to TEN THOUSAND TIMES MORE ICE than is coming out of the engines.

    which people say ironicaly look like fanned out vapour clods causing a hazy mist. I can agree with this on occasion but whenever these things come out they always fan out and look hazey…
    Thousands of tons of fine ice crystals (like cigarette smoke) can easily turn your local sky white. However, ice crystals are safer, aren’t they? If you look at trails from space you can see they really don’t cover much of the WHOLE atmosphere of Earth at all.

    http://www.bariumblues.com
    Is pseudoscience, and will mislead you perpetually. Follow it and you will continue to be as incorrect as you have demonstrated yourself to be in the above.

  9. JazzRoc says:

    SciGuy2012:
    spiritually logic…. trust your gut, your inner voice. Your gut instinct is the accumulation of all your knowledge and experiences.
    The fact that “gut instinct” doesn’t get you very far is the very justification for science.

    I suppose you are just an accident of cells within nature that make up a human being who will never admit that they might or could be wrong about anything.
    Repeat this sentence before a mirror on a daily basis.

    I suppose 9/11 was also 100% according to the official government version to you too, yes? 2 aluminum planes took down 3 steel structured buildings. 2 Full Size American passenger airplanes flown into the WTC with such precision by terrorists from Saudi Arabia who never really had much time or experience to practice such maneuvers. Those aluminum planes must have weighted soooo much more than all that office furniture and equipment, on each floor, not including the other floors that the structure also had to support above the “planes.”
    A paragraph which further justifies your need for an understanding of both science and engineering. Check out the following in any reference textbook “steel softening temperature”, “structural redundancy”, and “buckling”. The mass of the planes had little to do with it. This topic has NOTHING to do with contrails.

    Did I have all my punctuation and grammar correct enough for you folks? I know if I miss a comma or misspell any words, I will be instantly discredited and ridiculed, making any validity of my statements dismissed and discredited.
    Everyone makes a typo now and then. We’re fallible human beings, eh? Most pro-chemtrail comments are self-discrediting, quite often within the same sentence. Your mention of 9-11, for instance. when as yet you haven’t yet linked contrails to “poison” or “biological agents” in any way, leads anyone to suspect what motivates you.

    This also applies if I believe in UFOs, if I am just a journalist, detective, researcher, biologist, former scientist, etc. If I like to wear yellow shirts and I post valid information (not manipulated PDF documents – you were seriously reaching there), will that make any difference in swaying the beliefs you hold and have held and defended in here for so long now? Please enlighten us all….. what will it take to convince you anything exists?
    EVIDENCE. Evidence of Ba/Al compounds/biological agents definitively gathered from a trail laid (as they all are) in the stratosphere. Agreement reached by chemical and biochemical analysts in blind trials in various parts of the world. That would be handy.
    This has been done, of course, over the last fifty years, without the blind trials (if you search you will find the results) but nothing like the above has ever been recorded.
    Contrails can and do persist with the appropriate stratospheric conditions. This has been known for eighty-seven years.
    The rest is myth. FICTION.

  10. BlackIrishToung says:

    Jazz… Hold On!! He said something there… Really I saw it!! We might be able to save him!!

    Why do the trails look nothing like typical contrails ever, they look like what contrails can ’sometimes appear like’?

    What do Typical contrails look like.. what causes their variations among the Typical contrail types in relation to weather? Dont forget, you are entering scientific territory, this may answer many questions you didnt know you asked…

    Why do goverment funded enviroment agency’s ignore people when they say they have samples for analysis?

    I thought I covered this… my answer was.. –Contacting the Air Force or the FBI for an answer if futile. The FBI is the “Federal Bureau of Investigation” not the “Federal Bureau of Gonna answer your call and give you a wrong answer to something somebody made up and your dumbass bought it”– (sorry for the ‘dumbass’ comment, that was pointed at a more.. enthusiastic chemhead before)

    There are scientists that say the chemtrails are real along wiht goverment officers, ex CIA etc

    WAIT….WHO!?!?! why do people speak in infinate terms… WHAT scientists!?!?! WHAT exCIA guys!?!?! Why is it always “Them”..? Why cant someone name names.. obviously those “Them” types have names and reported this… WHO ARE THEY???

    Why do goverment funded enviroment agency’s ignore people when they say they have samples for analysis??
    Samples???? Where??? (please dont use the barium thing) all I have seen is pollen, spider webs, frost and there was another one.. Im just drawing a blank right now.

    Ive said it before, I would absolutely LOVE to see PROOF, a scientist with tests and results, a soldier who trucked the stuff to the airfield, an airman who let the stuff go.. I, just like anyone else, dont want to be poisoned, controlled or somehow driven by ANYTHING, but all the ‘someone said’ and pollen samples mounts to nothing better than the “Picnic” origin argument. Im a proof guy.

    Chemtrails WAS a legitimate concern in the mid 90’s with real people demanding REAL results.. when scientists were comissioned to research it.. it was Shot down (pardon the pun) an overwhelming lack of evidence.. and there the discussion died.. but then internet users with nothing better to do than find another reason to deamonize the government, because the Moon Landing and 9-11 arguements went soft..

    SEARCH for an answer.. dont demand that a different answer is right.

    btw, my spelling, grammar and typing most times sucks.. deal with it..

  11. stars15k says:

    Hmm, my gut usually can tell BS when I hear it. I used to work in human resources, and was good at it for that very reason. My gut tells me something without proof, with no evidence, with changing and differing storylines and endings is not something to give much credence to.

    Why are chemtrail believers taken seriously? Because of all the testing that has been done in the past that has shown the same thing over and over again. And usually testing labs require good “clean” samples taken scientifically, not ground level and rain. How many of those do you think “people” give them? Guessing from the sampling directions at chemtrail site, zero..

  12. BlackIrishToung says:

    ground level rain… that reminds me… If contrails have been studied for half a century.. its entirely possible that someone had a similar “chem-trail” theory back then too.. so why is it in the 70’s and 80’s… NOBODY was claiming chem-trails when we were all screaming Acid Rain?!?!

  13. Stars15k says:

    Well, because it’s rain, not trails? I’ve had people contact me who firmly believe the only way there are photos or films pre-1998 (or whatever year they “started”) is because there are lots of people who change the books and films, a`la “1984”. And I’m constantly pointed out as being wrong because exhaust is chemical, so all contrails are chemtrails. That is a valid point, but muddies the water quite a bit.
    And the acid rain? No one had just put the 2+2 = “whatever we say it does” and linked them to the contrails they could see. Thank goodness for the blessed past, when contrails were contrails, and nobody thought it was all poisoned.

  14. And what do you take away from this video SciGuy2012? Rain making which has been done for many decades, and looks nothing at all like contrails? What does that have to do with contrails or the chemtrail theory?

  15. BlackIrishToung says:

    Stars15k

    in the All contrails are chemtrails because of exaust is a common compound discussion. But its hard to say without saying it right.

    Imagine a logger in the woods with a chainsaw in the winter. Simple scenerio. The chainsaw is the plane. Yes the motor of the saw puts out an exhaust but the motor also puts out heat, the cold weather and snow cause the motor to steam. The steam in this case is the contrail.

    the steam is a temperature reaction. Which would not exist if the motor wasnt running.
    The exhaust is created because of the motor running.
    so both must exist. but they are not the same thing, just the same time.

    The Acid Rain ref I made was just taking the ChemTrail theory to the next level.. according to the chemheads, this mythical goop (logically) comes down.. why not with rain for good saturation…? so where was that discussion on the Acid Rain crisis?

  16. Chainsaws are gasoline engines. They put out water in their exhaust (a surprisingly large amount, more water than they burn fuel). What you are seeing has very little to do with the snow. It’s the steam in the exhaust condensing.

    Chemically what happens is:

    2C8H18 + 25O2 ~> 16CO2 + 18H2O

    2 Hydrocarbons + 25 Oxygens gives 16 carbon dioxide and 18 water. (in molecules).

  17. Stars15k says:

    I’ve gone over chemistry with someone by way of messaging at YT, showing how jet fuel + oxygen creates the compounds it does. Actually suprised myself that I worked it out on paper, then checked my work and was right the first time (admitting here that I didn’t bother with the actual componds, but used just the elements–didn’t know if they would understand valences and the created compounds). This person had taken umbrage that I insisted that jet fuel + oxygen through a jet engine at extreme high heat could NOT create any element that didn’t go into the engine in the first place. I even sent them a pro-Chemtrail booklet with a diagram explaining just that. It did no good. If the “numbers” ( I was assuming they looked at a periodic table and were referring to the atomic number) on one side added up to “X”, then as long as the numbers on the other side on the other side of the equation also equalled “X”, it could be done. It took me sometime to even understand what they were talking about. Basically, if the quantities of O’s, S’s, and H’s, multiplied by each atomic number, added up to a number over 56, it could create barium. Or they could have been counting the atoms of each……I couldn’t really tell. I asked for clarification and found they had me blocked. Thank goodness for censorship sometimes.

  18. JazzRoc says:

    Stars15k:

    Basically, if the quantities of O’s, S’s, and H’s, multiplied by each atomic number, added up to a number over 56, it could create barium. Or they could have been counting the atoms of each……I couldn’t really tell. I asked for clarification and found they had me blocked. Thank goodness for censorship sometimes.

    Alchemy rides again…. 🙂

  19. BlackIrishToung says:

    heat of the motor housing was just a temperature ref.

    I used winter as a metaphore for the deep cold of cruising alt.

  20. JazzRoc says:

    BlackIrish:

    ground level rain… that reminds me… If contrails have been studied for half a century.. it’s entirely possible that someone had a similar “chem-trail” theory back then too.. so why is it in the 70’s and 80’s… NOBODY was claiming chemtrails when we were all screaming Acid Rain?!?!

    Because the primary energy material – coal – had a HIGH to VERY HIGH sulfur content. Diesel oil, too, had a significant quantity of sulfur in it. And aviation fuel (which also had a moderate proportion of sulfur) contributed less than a single percent of global combustion at that time.
    Since that time, coal-burning plants have been fitted with scrubbers (which liberate CO2 into the atmosphere), and the proportion of sulfur in liquid fuels has been steadily reduced by increasingly stringent legislation.
    However the amount used by aviation has increased to 3.5% of total consumption.
    The sulfur burns to sulfur dioxide, an acidic gas, which either falls as acid rain (if it meets a water molecule), or rises to catalyze ozone back to oxygen high in the stratosphere over the poles, increasing the amount of high-energy ultraviolet radiation which falls on us, and the incidence of skin cancer.
    Sulfur dioxide is unwelcome in the atmosphere (volcanoes emit this gas naturally) for any reason.
    Personally I believe CO2 is OK, and cannot of itself force global warming.

  21. symetra says:

    Please help me, there are many low flying jets, in our neighbourhood, and they look just like the planes in your pictures.

    My wife says it isn’t so, and there is no reason in which the US govt. would want to control its population.

    Can you in any way send me some proof, these pictures, “aren’t good or they are false, a conspiracy theory.”

  22. JazzRoc says:

    Symetra:

    Please help me, there are many low flying jets, in our neighbourhood, and they look just like the planes in your pictures. My wife says it isn’t so, and there is no reason in which the US govt. would want to control its population. Can you in any way send me some proof these pictures, “aren’t good or they are false, a conspiracy theory.”

    Symetra, the proof is in the pictures themselves. These pictures are TRUE, accurate, factual.
    The first picture is the prototype version of the Boeing 777LR. The first example of every new type of aircraft made by Boeing (and for that matter, by anyone else) will ALWAYS be kitted out with waterbarrels in order to vary the centre of gravity for testing the way the aeroplane handles under ALL load conditions.
    The second aircraft has pipes to suck in and analyze the air it passes through, the third has an icing test spray nozzle for testing other aircraft, the fourth has wingtip pods for satellite communication and a central trailing antenna for ULF communication with submarines, the fifth smoke generators for demonstrating wave vortices, the sixth is Jumbo jet converted into a firefighting vehicle, the seventh was a rocket-assisted take-off RB-47 bomber of the mid-fifties, the eighth is a light aircraft fitted out for seeding clouds, and the last is a Canadian Air Force in-flight refuelling tanker.
    The whole point of the article is to show that ALL these aircraft have all been modifed for a specific use, and that specific use is quite obviously NOT one of spraying populations beneath them with poisons.

  23. Suntour says:

    symetra,

    They look just like the planes in which picture? Uncinus has a lot of pictures posted at the top of this particular page.

    What makes you think that the airplanes flying above you are doing anything other than creating persistent contrails? Do the trails they are leaving look different or suspicious? If so, how? We’d love to hear/see more information, also any pictures you might have would be a great help to trying to figure out what is going on in the skies above you.

    It’s impossible to disprove something, but if you look at the articles and images on this website, you should be able to piece together a good picture as to what is going on in the sky above you.

    Mr. Suntour

  24. SciGuy2012 says:

    Ok…. now I’m not so sure anymore. When mainstream TV (History Channel) broadcasts a program validating chemtrails and HAARP working together to manipulate the weather… it makes me think that they want the public to believe in this. Why make the general ignorant public to pay attention to the skies and make them aware of HAARP? That is suspicious, either they are that confident and don’t care what we all believe, or they want us to pay attention to the decoys. Yeah the call it conspiracies and theories in this program, but they know the public will buy into what they are being directed to. The secret’s out about chemtrails, maybe they are giving us disinformation as to their real purpose for being there. Once I’ve been lied to several 100 times by a government, I tend to assume they will lie again. You folks can choose to believe whatever helps you sleep at night, I choose to trust my instincts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3gKa0z7rjM&feature=player_embedded

  25. JazzRoc says:

    Sciguy2012:

    Ok…. now I’m not so sure anymore.
    ROFL. So we had you teetering on the brink, did we? I can’t see how. If you had READ and UNDERSTOOD our replies you would know for sure we are correct. So which is it? Did you not read them, or did you read them but not understand them? (It’s a rhetorical question, for you didn’t follow up any reply.)

    When mainstream TV (History Channel) broadcasts a program validating chemtrails and HAARP working together to manipulate the weather… it makes me think that they want the public to believe in this.
    ROFL. Yes, it IS the History Channel we all must rely on for questions of Science! I suppose that for questions of History the Science Channel will be OK?

    Why make the generally ignorant public pay attention to the skies and make them aware of HAARP?
    HAARP isn’t secret. Only its military aspects are secret, but even THAT secrecy isn’t too difficult to penetrate: a very powerful radio transmitter makes a very powerful JAMMER in wartime. And it can be focussed somewhat to “cook” missiles in the middle of their ballistic trajectory.

    That is suspicious, either they are that confident and don’t care what we all believe, or they want us to pay attention to the decoys.
    Sciguy2012, you have a problem with your name, for it implies you posses scientific understanding when you don’t, which means you are left with, ehm, faith. Call yourself Faithguy2012 and be honest. Who are they?

    Yeah they call it conspiracies and theories in this program, but they know the public will buy into what they are being directed to.
    I see William Thomas (for the first time). He closed down his own blog page rather than continue a discussion with me as I was about to get to the scientific explanation (known for about a hundred years) for the reason for persistent contrails. This reason was the answer I gave YOU earlier on in this discussion, to which you ALSO did not respond. Why? And who are they?

    The secret’s out about chemtrails, maybe they are giving us disinformation as to their real purpose for being there.
    Your secret’s out about “chemtrails”. They don’t exist, and you won’t acknowledge anything which suggests this.

    Once I’ve been lied to several 100 times by a government, I tend to assume they will lie again. You folks can choose to believe whatever helps you sleep at night, I choose to trust my instincts.
    Well maybe you should call yourself Instinctguy2012. When Nibiru arrives I’ll believe your lies…

  26. InstinctGuy2012 says:

    I don’t bother responding to replies in here because they are all the same, personal insults and attacks on everyone’s lower intelligence compared to the masters of all knowledge in here defending the non existence of chemtrails. I don’t engage in such non productive conversations. It is patronizing and insulting to MY intelligence to debate with those who prefer belittling everyone who believes their own eyes. I don’t and haven’t insulted anyone on either side of the chemtrail debates. Whether “chemtrails” are persistent contrails or chemical spraying, they have been named “chemtrails”, therefor they “exist.” When someone uses the term chemtrail, they are referring to those persistent streaks in the sky, so the argument that they don’t exist is ridiculous. Chemtrails have one over on God, people all over the world believe in the white bearded man in the sky they’ve never seen, and they are considered sane. People who believe in something they can actually see, they are conspiracy theorists and insane. Ok, whatever you say.
    We can post 1000 articles, photos, test data on water and soil, none of it will change the debate in here. Regardless of whatever scientific evidence u prefer to believe over others, people will still believe the data that makes the most sense to them. If we all agreed on everything, this would be a boring world.
    I do possess a lot of knowledge beyond the average person, I don’t need to defend or prove that to anyone. Insult away and dissect my responses here and everyone’s opinions in a patronizing manner if that helps u sleep at night.

  27. When someone uses the term chemtrail, they are referring to those persistent streaks in the sky, so the argument that they don’t exist is ridiculous

    Indeed, and nobody has suggested otherwise. What people are suggesting is that those persistent streaks are actually contrails.

    Now can you describe exactly how they are different to contrails?

    And if you can’t then why do you think they are not contrails?

  28. InstinctGuy2012 says:

    Now can you describe exactly how they are different to contrails?

    And if you can’t then why do you think they are not contrails?

    Well, the persistent streaks in the sky are different from what most of us believe are normal contrails, basically because of how they linger and what they seem to contain vs the fast dissipating contrails. I watch them everyday, and I have been on this planet for several decades so I remember the difference from decades ago to the appearance of the sky now. I see the chemtrails spread out and form artificial clouds, compared to natural clouds and how they are formed. They have recently classified new cloud types, why? Why have these new clouds suddenly appeared over the past few years to “require” a new name and classification? If these contrails haven’t changed in 100 years, why have the skies changed now and not then? We don’t have enough data that’s been made official to say either way or these debates would have ceased by now.

    I am glad we have something like HAARP for missile defense, but it can be used for other purposes, we are just being told what it can do, we aren’t being told what it is doing, officially. The government and military always test their new toys before releasing the data to the public, and they have been testing weather modification for years now without announcing it to us. Are these not the facts? The military obviously can’t disclose all of their activities for national security reasons, but they also don’t particularly care about you or me and have proven that over several decades of testing on the populations via spraying, vaccines, pharmaceuticals, etc. What makes you believe they aren’t doing something to the skies now? Bill Gates is bragging on mainstream news about how he can control the weather, did he just assume he could do that without first testing that? Private planes are doing private agendas, that’s no secret. Money and power buys anything in this corporate world, what we want or think hasn’t mattered in 100s of years, what makes you think it matters now? There are planes putting unnatural elements into the atmosphere, unnatural in that they aren’t being put up there by nature. When man tries to control nature, nature always reacts accordingly. So we are altering our atmosphere for military and other purposes, those are the facts, and those facts bring up a lot of questions that are being patronized, denied, and ignored by official organizations. That always causes suspicion of something to hide, and with the track record of “official versions” from the government, it would be unusual for the official version of the truth to actually be the truth.

  29. Well, the persistent streaks in the sky are different from what most of us believe are normal contrails, basically because of how they linger and what they seem to contain vs the fast dissipating contrails. I watch them everyday, and I have been on this planet for several decades so I remember the difference from decades ago to the appearance of the sky now. I see the chemtrails spread out and form artificial clouds, compared to natural clouds and how they are formed.

    Well, I DON’T remember them being different. Nor, for that matter, do MILLIONS of scientists. In fact all the science books say that contrails have ALWAYS spread out to form clouds cover the skies under certain weather conditions.

    Are you saying all those scientists are part of some conspiracy? Are you saying that the old science books have all been forged?

    When did you start watching contrails daily? Don’t you think that your perception of contrails AFTER you start watching them daily is going to be different to when you did not pay much attention to them?

    A new classification of cloud does not mean that the cloud was not there before. It’s just a new way of classifying clouds. Like Pluto – it used to be classified as a planet, but now it’s not a planet. It’s not actually changed.

    There is nothing to suggest that HAARP is used for missile defense.

    Being suspicious is fine. But you are taking a huge leap here in believing in something with no evidence, just because you don’t trust the rich.

  30. InstinctGuy2012 says:

    Are u living on the same planet as I am? Why are the responses in here from your side of the debate always so aggressive and angry? That is rhetorical, it’s psychological reactions to information that goes against your cemented beliefs. Cognitive dissidence I believe it’s called.

    I have watched the skies my entire life, not just recent years. I have loved Astronomy since age 4, space has always fascinated me. I DO remember the skies from my childhood and it isn’t the same sky now.

    “Millions” of scientists have come out and stated using scientific evidence that the skies haven’t changed? I’ve spoken with and have seen several scientists on both sides of that debate. Of course the doctors and scientists whose conclusions are different from mainstream are immediately discredited and patronized. Kind of like the responses in here.

    I am not saying any scientists are part of any conspiracy. Conspiracies do and have existed in government and military complexes, those are facts. I don’t know who is working for who or what agenda though. FOX news is one example of an organization who admits telling the people “what they believe is news.” A corporation that works with the military industrial complex agenda promoting the war in the middle east. We are the bad guys over there and the TV convinces the population we are defending our freedom. Obviously we can’t always believe everything we read and are told to believe, we have to form opinions of our own, not steal the opinons that are popular.

    The new cloud types were NOT there before, that’s why they have recently been classified. Google search new cloud type images and tell me that you have seen those alien pod looking clouds and the other types all your life. If you can then you are full of it.

    There’s nothing to suggest HAARP is used for missile defense?? Are u serious? I guess we don’t have the same amount of information researched on that subject. I am not going to display any links on that here, there’s plenty of information about HAARP online for anyone to see BEYOND page 1 of a Google search.

    It’s not about not trusting the rich, it’s about not trusting admitted liars still running the government. Henry Kissinger, Donald Rumsfeld, among many others, are known liars and have a big say in the agendas of our government. There’s no leaps of faith in believing that, do the research about their war crimes and you won’t have as much faith as you seem to have now in our leaders having our best interests in mind.

  31. The sky HAS changed in the last 30 years, but only in that there are more contrails now, as there is more air traffic.

    The point about the scientists is that none of them seem to have noticed anything unusual going on. No only that, the books describe contrails in the past that are just the same as what you call “chemtrails” now. Have you looked at these books? Here’s a video of one from 1972:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2ChFjtW1Cc

    So we’ve got two contradictory things here. A book from 1972, by a leading Meterologist, that shows what you claim are something new. So we’ve got two options here – either there’s some vast conspiracy that extends as far as finding every single meteorology book in the world and changing the photos in them, or you simply don’t remember as well as you think.

    And speaking of meteorological books, no I’ve not seen those clouds before. That is because they are very rare, which is why they had not been classified until now. I’ve not seen a lot of cloud types. I’ve never seen a Mammatus cloud, and I’d never seen a fallstreak hole until recently. I’d never seen a “black line” in front of a contrail, but now I see them all the time, because I LOOK for them. But these things are all in the books on clouds.


    These clouds are mammatus clouds, not new clouds at all. But have you ever seen them before?

    So answer this one question – if your recollection is correct, then how do you explain the contrails in the science books?

  32. InstinctGuy2012 says:

    The pictures in that book from 72′ are chemtrails. I never said chemtrails were something brand new. Weather modification has been going on and has been tested for decades. At least China doesn’t hide what they can and are doing to their skies.

    I have recently seen mammatus for the 1st time in the New England area. I almost got into a car accident driving home when I noticed them, they were very eerie. I want to know why after several decades living in this area did I just see that type of cloud now? How could that occur without human influence? Why are they showing up in parts of the world that have never seen them before now? Is it a coincidence that they are showing up soon after they were classified as new types? I don’t know how or why they aren’t “rare” anymore, but they are showing up frequently now.

    Watching the skies daily as I do for many years, I have noticed flight patterns and inconsistencies of contrails. Some days there are fast dissipating trails, and other days (similar conditions, temp, altitude, etc), they linger for hours and form the web style clouds. I can predict the weather for the next day or 2 just by watching the chemtrail activity. I know when it’s going to rain and for how long just by watching them. There are definitely days when there are no contrails at all coming from the same planes flying the same flight paths. It appears to be a conscious effort going on with them. Those are my conclusions based on my own observance and research, not what a book or person with a title told me to believe. I can’t state facts from all over the world as far as their skies, but I can about the area and skies where I have lived my whole life in the United States.

  33. So “chemtrails” have always been around, but you’ve only just noticed them? Not that’s rather different from William Thomas, who says they started around 1997.

    And you think that back in 1972 they were putting disinformation in all the science books? What about the newspaper stories from the 1940s? Is that also disinformation?

    Mammatus clouds are NOT a new cloud type, nor are they a new classification, the proposed (not yet accepted) new type is “asperatus”. Mammatus clouds show up in the 1972 book. You just saw them for the first time.

    Watching the skies daily as I do for many years, I have noticed flight patterns and inconsistencies of contrails. Some days there are fast dissipating trails, and other days (similar conditions, temp, altitude, etc), they linger for hours and form the web style clouds. I can predict the weather for the next day or 2 just by watching the chemtrail activity. I know when it’s going to rain and for how long just by watching them.

    Look, all the science books in the entire world say that different weather conditions cause contrails to last for a different amount of time. If it’s cold and humid (at that altitude, not on the ground), then the contrails last for a lot longer. Contrails have been used by sailors for decades as a method of forecasting the weather. Now how can you simply ignore all this evidence, and say that it’s actually the other way around, and that contrails change the weather? See:
    http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/fgz/science/contrail.php?wfo=fgz

    If contrails persist for a long enough period of time, say on the order of an hour or more, they can spread out across the sky due to the prevailing winds at the level at which they formed. The two figures below show how contrails generated on this particular day spread out fairly quickly due to the stronger jet stream of air aloft. Persistence of contrails is neither an indication that they contain some kind of chemical, nor that it is some kind of spray. As a matter of fact, sailors have known for some time to look specifically at the patterns and persistence of jet contrails for weather forecasting. On days where the contrails disappear quickly or don’t even form, they can expect continuing good weather, while on days where they persist, a change in the weather pattern may be expected.

  34. InstinctGuy2012 says:

    So in the 40’s there was this article about “one” contrail in the sky that residents have never seen before. If contrails have existed since the airplane, why did so many decades pass without a single lingering contrail until the 1940s?

    I find it very amusing that the article right next to the contrail one is about Bristol Okaying fluoridation of their water supply, haha. If there’s one major piece of gov’t propaganda in that newspaper, I’m sure there may be more. Do u think fluoride is good for the human body? Do u think that those scientists and doctors really believed that the main ingredient in rat poison was great to put in the water supplies? The truth will always find a way to come out and it always does.

    I saw lingering contrails when I was a child just like the ones I see now, but back then they were rare to see. Have THAT many more flights been added in the past 30 years to make it go from rare to multiple frequencies per day everyday? I saw the picture book from the early 1900s showing long contrails, why then are those residents concerned about 1 single lingering contrail 30 years after that book was published? I’m just asking questions here, I’m not claiming to know all the answers.

  35. Actually that article was from 1954. The reason people got excited was that contrails were very rare, as planes did not fly that high very often, and jet travel was still in it’s infancy. There are hundreds of more flights now. People still get excited in places where there is very little fly-over traffic, like in Hawaii, or in parts of Australia. Heck, people even get excited in Oregon, if a plane happens to make a loop:

    http://contrailscience.com/modern-contrail-confusion/

    So, you saw lingering contrails when you were a child, but now there are more of them? Sure, air traffic has probably more than tripled since you were a child, and contrails are also more common because of high-bypass engines, but have you considered you also see more now because you watch the sky more now. What about if you combine those three factors More jets + high bypass engines + watching sky more = you see many more persistent contrails.

  36. JazzRoc says:

    Instinctguy2012:

    Well, the persistent streaks in the sky are different from what most of us believe are normal contrails, basically because of how they linger and what they seem to contain vs the fast dissipating contrails. Most of you know nothing about the science of the atmosphere. Contrail persistence is lucidly explained in Uncinus’s “Contrails to Cirrus” link in the margin links on this site. Why haven’t you read it?

    the chemtrails spread out and form artificial clouds Well, being ICE, they are like cirrus clouds. Would you say a ship makes artificial waves? They’re made out of seawater, just like natural waves…

    They have recently classified new cloud types, why? They talk about it, but in general they are simply variants (as ALL clouds are) of pre-existing clouds.

    If these contrails haven’t changed in 100 years, why have the skies changed now and not then? The first contrail (made in 1922) was by a SINGLE 100 hp rotary-engined biplane. One plane. Nowadays global civil and military aviation discharges a MILLION tons of ice into the Earth’s stratosphere, precipitating possibly a further TWO HUNDRED MILLION tons of ice out of supersaturated areas of the stratosphere, which at the time of a 1992 atmospheric research paper were estimated as 17% of the whole.

    we are just being told what it can do, we aren’t being told what it is doing I doubt whether what you have “been told” bears much relationship to the truth: such antennae work best directly upwards and their efficiency approaches ZERO when directed at the horizon. That is why HAARP has the title it has: the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program “a research facility to conduct pioneering experiments in ionospheric phenomena.” It does what it says on the can.

    they have been testing weather modification for years now What does that mean, exactly? Every time any one of the seven billion of us lights a fire, we are “testing weather modification”. If you sit down and do the math for global weather modification, then NO-ONE can afford it, in materials, man-power, and machine-power, or money-power. Especially by the means suggested. Your concept of the size of the Earth needs revising.

    What makes you believe they aren’t doing something to the skies now? The above.

    Private planes are doing private agendas What, 3.4 million tons of organic barium have been loadded into 70,000 tanker flights which have distributed a monomolecular layer over the Earth without putting barium into any of the hundreds of thousands of free-standing air samplers placed around the world?

    There are planes putting unnatural elements into the atmosphere, unnatural in that they aren’t being put up there by nature. No. NATURAL, for they have been placed there by MAN, and MAN is NATURAL.

    we are altering our atmosphere for military and other purposes No. All scientific papers on the atmosphere say that it isn’t yet possible to distinguish the general effects on the atmosphere by civil aviation from “the backround noise”. In fifty years time it might have been different, save for the fact that our fossil fuels will be GONE.

    I DO remember the skies from my childhood and it isn’t the same sky now Explained above.

    “Millions” of scientists Not that many, I think.

    The new cloud types were NOT there before, that’s why they have recently been classified What about the millions of cheap digital still and video cameras widely-distributed throughout the world? Don’t you think the countless millions of new images have made a difference?

    tell me that you have seen those alien pod looking clouds and the other types all your life. If you can then you are full of it. I’ve seen wave and mammatus clouds before. I have never seen a supercell tornado or Kelvin-Helmholtz clouds though. I suppose I’m only half-full of it.

    There’s nothing to suggest HAARP is used for missile defense? If it hadn’t been mentioned, I’d have suggested it. It’s a fairly obvious possibility. The other things I’ve read about it are pseudoscience.

    it’s about not trusting admitted liars still running the government No. It’s about CONTRAILS. You should be writing elsewhere.

    Uncinus – that’s a killer picture of Mammatus clouds…

  37. JazzRoc says:

    Instinctguy:

    Cognitive dissidence I believe it’s called.

    That made me itch for about an hour. 🙂

    It’s “cognitive dissonance”…

  38. InstinctGuy2012 says:

    When I was a child I might have saw a lingering contrail maybe once a week to once a month, I use to think that a plane caught fire in the air when I was that age. I think I watched the skies more as a child than I do now, I didn’t have a job or much of a life then so I had more time to sky gaze.

    The paper u presented also claimed, I presume, that fluoridating the water was safe. I know otherwise and so do most of the population at this point in time, should I believe that part of that newspaper was the only disinformation article? I could argue that the vapor contrail explanation could have been disinformation to calm the populations concerned, that was the time period where admitted spraying did occur for many years. I’m sure someone somewhere noticed the real aerosol spraying that took place, could it have appeared almost identical to persistent natural contrails? Probably, most likely actually. I should just believe they would never spray us because they said they aren’t, yes? If money never existed and resources weren’t hoarded in this world, I might tend to believe officials’ statements contrary to my beliefs and instincts. That is not the real world though.

    If I was a doctor or a scientist and if u paid me a few million dollars, I would go on TV or write a book about anything u tell me to write about. My opinions would be the same opinions as the people paying me, that is how the world works, follow the money. Who stands to gain from this chemtrail disclosure? If chemtrails are indeed aerosol spraying, which had admittedly been done for decades in the US in the 20th century, who stands to gain from making that public? Why would this be such a popular belief if there wasn’t reason to believe so?

    These agendas and “conspiracies” are so compartmentalized that no one except for the few at the very top know the real information. Subordinates do not know what their bosses are discussing behind closed doors, ie. Bilderberg meetings and CFR sessions. Hillary Clinton just recently admitted on the news that she gets her direction and guidance on what the government should be doing directly from the CFR. There is no global conspiracy held by 1000s of pee ons so to speak, the ‘owners’ of these countries decide policy and dictate their orders downward. If they are spraying us, they are definitely NOT going to tell us, just like they didn’t the last time we were sprayed. What the officials would do if they were spraying us or had a depopulation agenda, is they would discredit anyone speaking otherwise and lie and lie and lie, until they are caught, then they will lie to get out of the lies they were caught in. They are lying right now about this swine flu pandemic situation and the media is helping the fear mongering about it. Baxter wants to start swine flu vaccinations next month on children and elderly under the guise that it will protect us. Some are theorizing that they will spray the flu via chemtrails. Could they do this? Yes. Will they do this? W.H.O. knows.

  39. JazzRoc says:

    Instinctguy2012, when I was a child, somewhat ahead of you in time, I found myself in a desperately impoverished Atlantic island country which had only just “won” a war against a tyrant dictator, the skies were initially quiet, and the roads almost empty, walls devoid of fencing – gone to make tanks and airplanes – and bombsites filled with rubble swamped with exotic weeds and flowers, but the birds sang.
    I knew little about war, and certainly nothing about 1000-bomber raids, saturation bombing, firestorms in cities, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, poison gas warfare, bacteriological warfare, nuclear warfare, or even cold warfare. Nor for that matter did I know anything about bananas, oranges, or chocolate, colored paint, streamlined cars, colored films or even B&W TV. But I knew about Spitfires and Hurricanes and Mosquitos.
    In the fifties I made model airplanes, color paint and softly-rounded cars arrived, with oranges and bananas, and color pictures in the cinemas, Bill Haley and an explosion of rock and roll on pirate radio stations. The streets filled with cars, houses filled with brightly-colored, luridly-patterned (and short-lived) plastic clothing, furnishings, films and surfaces, and we were told that atomic power was just around the corner, and that when it came the whole world would run using energy so cheap it was practically free. There weren’t as many birds as there used to be, but they still flew through our garden in crowds. In the skies jets laid an occasional temporary trail. I studied science at secondary schools and passed my exams.
    In the sixties I studied mechanical engineering at a gas turbine research establishment called the NGTE. At nights some of us engineering apprentices, having made our musical instruments, formed rock and roll bands and did the local dance halls. Later in the sixties I returned to college to study product design, married, and settled in North London. Birds were less frequent, and in the skies on occasion a trail would linger for hours.
    The “spray” plane used to conduct the “tests” you mention was a twin-jet Camberra bomber run by the NGTE. During “spray” runs it flew fairly slowly at 2000 feet, spraying a spray so fine it could barely be seen from the ground. The spray was on occasion either pure water, a dilute solution of zinc cadmium sulfide (which phosphoresces under UV), or a dilute suspension of a specific strain of dried irradiated and killed bacteria which could be identified later by testing dispersed samples with a radioactive antibody. Such tests were conducted in absolute secrecy (I for one was entirely unaware of them at that time, although I frequently saw the plane itself), for secrecy is always a superior form of defense. Check out Sun Tzu.
    The intention of such tests was discover exactly how enemy bacterial or toxin-based weapon materials would disperse over towns and countryside, in order to formulate practical means of of sealing with such attacks. In other words, an entirely sensible and responsible approach, considering that our cold war enemy had on occasion issued threats like “We will bury you.”
    Spraying from the stratosphere was not undertaken because it was obvious to scientists (but not to you) that NO measurable results would be obtained from that height.
    In the seventies the roads filled with traffic, and on one occasion when we were picnicking on the downs, trails criss-crossed the sky and whited it out. Our sunny blue-sky day ended up as a white haze. Elm trees were dying all over the landscape and hedgerows were being grubbed up and greenfinches and similar birds were disappearing.
    In the eighties and nineties till the present civil aviation has DOUBLED and doubled AGAIN.
    So on – so forth. All you claim was happening before you noticed it, for reasons other than the ones you claim. You have no science, and as a result nothing you say has any validity. It simply isn’t true. Nothing of what you say is true.
    Of course fluoride is a poison, but in trace amounts the benefit to your teeth outweighs the harm to the rest of you. It merely requires careful management. The same applies to atomic power. A rational approach to it produces safe power.
    Mankind’s problems are the ones arriving over extended periods of time. It has now become EASY to envisage, for instance, a scenario where atomic power has been established all over the Earth as the major source of power, under the control of a progressively-unstable culture which is in the process of rejecting science. When the technicians are gone, will “turf accountants” run the atomic reactors? Will nuclear waste be disposed of by astrologers? Who’s up for a Chernobyl every month? Why don’t you check what the Tarot cards say?

  40. stars15k says:

    Instinct, I’m not as old as Jazz (sorry, Jazz) and have seen contrails since elementary school age back in the late 1960’s. Why? My father commuted to work by plane weekly for over 10 years. He noticed, so we noticed. There are more now, but surely you can understand why.
    Viruses are packets of genetic material, which is easily disrupted by the UV rays in the open air. Also, unless and until “they” can control wind and the effect of gravity, two things disregarded by most CT theories, using a trail for targeted purposes will not work. What is in the sky over your head will not settle out on you while viewing. Even all rain doesn’t not hit the ground. It will remain suspended and drift with the wind, falling hours or days and 100’s or 1000’s of miles away from you. To think someone can use the sky, visible to all, to work for them at whim requires a bit of critical thinking.

  41. stars15k says:

    Oh, and it’s “peon”, not “pee on”. And the “pe-” comes from “ped” for foot.

    Right now I am in search of the source of the story about two Russian-made but US military flown chemplanes. Apparently they were forced down over China and India, by their respective Air Forces. The disclosure is causing panic on the US shores. It is reported they were spreading something biological in nature (or maybe pharmaceutical). People on YouTube are lapping this up as further vindication of their beliefs. It’s been a good week for them, what with History Channel confirming their worst fears and now real chemplanes caught red-handed.

    All of this sets off my bullshitometer big time. It seems to all start from one site, and is mirrored at another, then off to YT, but no “real” journalism, because we all know that the media is controled by the same people doing the spraying, and they wouldn’t be allowed to show any information. Leave it to the third-world to clue us all in.
    Anyone else looked into this? I was hoping to see it mentioned here. I’ll get back to you.

  42. stars15k says:

    Okay, just as dumb as it all sounds. Had some “facts” wrong, above, but so much is wrong with the “original” story, it makes my attempt as remembering seem almost plausible.
    The original story was by Sarcha Faal, (say it slowly, it’s almost “such a fail”. Not my work, saw that on ATS.com post), a known pseudonym of a guy, David Booth, who apparently spends his time embroidering real news with all sorts of conspiracy threads, then claims that they are not reported by the US because of the media being controlled. So source: PHONEY
    Two planes were involved, but not connected in anyway. One Ukranian plane was “arrested” (their word, not mine) in Nigeria for problems with declaring their cargo while refueling. Neither Ukrainia, the transport company, or their cargo (munitions bound for Equitorial Guinea) were a problem; it was totally procedural. It was being released with no further problems. Nothing about chemicals, nano-tubes, or the US at all. And it happened in June, so is “old” news.
    The other plane was a plane was chartered by the US military, carrying military trucks and weaponry from the Diego Garcia base in the Indian Ocean to Afghanistan. It had wandered into Indian airspace without clearance. They were asked to reroute and land at Mumbai by air traffic control, and they complied. They were cleared to leave the next afternoon. This happened a week after the first.
    The only thing Russian involved was that one was Ukranian and the other cargo plane was made in Russia. The only thing “chemical” involved was probably the blue stuff in their toilets. No mention was made of any spraying equipment, chemicals, US military, panic, China, or anything else claimed.
    Yet another opportunity for PCTs to prove they will believe anything and research nothing.

  43. This website is full of shit. Who in their right mind would go to so much trouble to debunk something? If millions of people across the globe are wrong, then so be it, but this is a very elaborate collection of disinformation techniques designed to make anyone who questions chemtrails and the poisoning of the skies.

    I’d like to meet the author of this website IN PERSON and photograph the author. This website is a joke, wonder how much you get paid to shit on people? Someone needs to dig around and find out who this author is, where he works, where he eats, where he sleeps, and who he is in contact with. No more time for games. We need to follow this mother fucker and see who he really is. This should be done with anybody trying to debunk something you can see with your own eyes, and putting such a massive effort into it.

    These people are not immune to prying eyes. Find this fool and follow his ass.

  44. JazzRoc says:

    Yourefullofshit:

    This website is full of shit. – Beauty is in the mind of the beholder.

    Who in their right mind would go to so much trouble to debunk something? – Science is the closest we get to truth. Pseudoscience the furthest away. I think idle chatter like yours needs its come-uppance.

    If millions of people across the globe are wrong, then so be it, but this is a very elaborate collection of disinformation techniques designed to make anyone who questions chemtrails and the poisoning of the skies. – You wouldn’t know a technique if it climbed out of your toilet. Everything you appear to be standing for is misinformation. Science is therefore disinformation to you.

    I’d like to meet the author of this website IN PERSON and photograph the author. – No you wouldn’t. You’re far too lazy.

    This website is a joke, wonder how much you get paid to shit on people? – Once more, science is shit to you.

    Someone needs to dig around and find out who this author is, where he works, where he eats, where he sleeps, and who he is in contact with. No more time for games. We need to follow this mother fucker and see who he really is. – These statements are reasons for debunking you. You spread an evil meme through our society on the basis of a lazy and false supposition, apparently without hindrance.

    This should be done with anybody trying to debunk something you can see with your own eyes, and putting such a massive effort into it. – The same thing was done with flat-earthers, and people who believed the Sun goes round the Earth. They saw this with their own eyes too.

    These people are not immune to prying eyes. Find this fool and follow his ass. – Well, there are laws against what you suggest. When you are wrong about so many other things, it’s no surprise you’re wrong here as well.

    Get off your lazy idle ass and check what you believe using science – then figure out how to atone for your damaging behavior, and forgive yourself.

  45. If millions of people across the globe are wrong, then so be it, but this is a very elaborate collection of disinformation techniques designed to make anyone who questions chemtrails and the poisoning of the skies.

    If millions of people are wrong (and they frequently are), the this site is prefectly reasonable. Surely you should establish some basis for judging if the claims are correct, before you start stalking people?

  46. SR1419 says:

    YFS-

    …is your only response to attack the messenger?

    Have you nothing to say about the actual message?

    What does that say about you?

    What exactly is “disinformation” on this site?

    Can you point out a single piece of information that is untrue?

    …and is anyone who questions the veracity of “chemtrails” automatically assumed to be “paid” and a “fool”?

    Your comment does nothing to further the discussion…it only serves to expose yourself as having severe failings in logic and social skills….instead relying on fear and threats.

    Good luck with that.

  47. stars15k says:

    YFofS:
    Yes, you certainly are.

    If millions of people across the globe are wrong, then so be it

    Okay, you are one of them. So be it.

    but this is a very elaborate collection of disinformation techniques designed to make anyone who questions chemtrails and the poisoning of the skies

    But if they are wrong, this is INFORMATION, not disinformation. The rest of the sentence isn’t a complete thought, but I can see where you are going…..you are one of them, so be it.
    If you read through the comments made here by Uncinus and others, we all practice a great deal of decorum, considering a lot of people are like you. It’s why our emails are hidden and why most of us use other names. Pro-chems seem to be such a unruly population set, and threats such as your unfortunately quite common on some forums. But they are also blessedly dim as a group, having mistaken me repeatably as a man for months. Still, I don’t want someone who couldn’t count his own balls and come up with the same number twice know very much about me; I wouldn’t wish that on anyone here. Ah, blessed anonymity!

    debunk something you can see with your own eyes

    You simply cannot see anything different chemically about an aerosol sprayed in your face, much less 30,000+ft over your head. If you don’t know how the sky works, look it up in a book about the atmosphere. Thinking your own eyes are able to see something like this, you are not very bright. It’s why we don’t worry too much.

  48. Barack Osama says:

    Whatta pile of steaming shit. So now I should believe I see american planes sampling air or extinguishing fires over my city , slthoughthere is no fire every day?

    And why there aren’t even contarails left behind the planes pictured in the last image??
    F*CK THE ZOG!

  49. JazzRoc says:

    B.O.:

    Whatta pile of steaming shit. – Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.

    So now I should believe I see american planes sampling air or extinguishing fires over my city, although there is no fire every day? – US planes sample all over the country, at various heights and routes for a host of good reasons. http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/166
    Aerosols are naturally found in the air from biological and geological sources.
    Cities have their own ground-based fire departments. You are probably thinking of the single 747 that exists which is fitted out with water tanks for fighting forest fires.

    And why there aren’t even contrails left behind the planes pictured in the last image?? – I can see you’re implying a doctored picture. Air temperature either has to be VERY COLD (at least below the freezing point of water) and/or VERY HUMID for contrails to form. It’s fairly obvious that neither circumstance applied in this case.

    F*CK THE ZOG! – If that’s what you’ve been doing recently, then I recommend abstention…

    You could use your increase in leisure time to find out what the word “science” means.

  50. MyMatesBrainwashed says:

    So now I should believe I see american planes sampling air or extinguishing fires over my city , slthoughthere is no fire every day?

    It strikes me that you’ve got the wrong end of the stick from this article.

    The article is not saying that every persistent contrail you see is produced by one of these planes.

    It’s just saying that these are pictures used to forward the chemtrail hoax and tries to explain what these REALLY planes are.

    The majority of persistent contrails we see are produced by commercial aircraft. Get yourself a pair of binoculars and see for yourself.

    Not many people seem to want to do that. It’s quite amusing how many truth seekers don’t have the correct equipment to find the truth. But it’s OK, we’ve got youtube instead.

  51. SpiritualInstinctGuy2012 says:

    Jazz… u & I are on different “planes” of existence. I don’t just believe the USA is being sprayed with “something”, I am convinced of it.
    Also, Youtube is just a popular video source for information output, attacking the credibility of the site is pointless, the information uploaded is all that matters. The best thing about Youtube, is that it’s the main source of INDEPENDENT/unedited/unfunded news & information. Of course there is more idiocy on Youtube than serious information, but there is far more idiocy & controlled disinfo & brainwashing going on through Television, & that is the main source for controlling the populations’ belief systems. If u choose to only believe news source funded by corporations connected with government interests, while discrediting anything unknown or independent, u are going to stay locked in a singular mind set view of reality that is not your own.

    If u rely on current/non-evolving old sciences to lead u to any “truth”, good luck with that quest. The Earth will remain flat for u until someone tells u it isn’t. Most of what gets published is edited & very well funded, if your not part of the club, u don’t get published, advertising, & have to rely on sources like Youtube to get out the information. U’d be surprised what u can find on YT, many reputable doctors & scientists have come forward with very liberating suppressed information. Of course no one defending the belief that no one is spraying ANYTHING on anyone will believe anything that doesn’t come from Popular Mechanics, mainstream media, published sciences paid for by Rockefeller & Rothschild, etc. How long will u all continue to believe the same crew that is infamous for disinformation that aids their world governing agendas?

    Fluoride has NO benefits for dental health AT ALL! Show me something that confirms Sodium Fluoride has benefits on human beings. Dentists use to advertise cigarettes, “Trust us, we’re dentists!” If u believe the Fluoride propaganda SCAM, then u are a victim of it’s affects. Rat poison is NOT good for your teeth! Industrial by product waste of aluminum put in our water supplies is NOT for our benefit, come on! Defending such Nazi beliefs is confirmation that u are not that “informed” as u may believe u are. Why not put vitamins in the water instead, don’t we already have Fluoride in tooth pasts & mouthwash? It’s a bullshit artist scam to pacify & dumb down the populations so THEY can run right over everyone in military take overs for global consolidation of power, period.

    Chemtrails are just one small aspect of an agenda that goes far beyond your conceptual imaginations…. or…. some of u here are already aware of that & are trying to suppress & redirect the public’s attention away from it. There are contrails AND chemtrails in the skies here, believing your leaders would never do anything so sick & evil to human beings is just blind ignorance, cognitive dissidence retardation from Fluoride toxin poisoning cumulative over a lifetime. The older u are, Jazz, the more u are probably rotted on the inside. Give your egos a rest and just look with independent eyes instead of auto-defending solidified, possible inaccurate & misinformed beliefs.

    Can u use science to prove everything? Really? That is a rhetorical question.

  52. Fluoride has NO benefits for dental health AT ALL! Show me something that confirms Sodium Fluoride has benefits on human beings.

    Most scientists think that it does have some benefit, but it’s not clear exactly how much. They have done studies. The studies show evidence of benefits in the reduction of caries, some cosmetic problems (fluorosis) and no adverse effects.

    http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7265/855

    See, I’m curious as to what you actually personally take as evidence when coming to your own conclusions. How have you figured that some contrails are chemtrails? What actually is the evidence.

    Science is by its very nature and evolving discipline, constantly seeking to improve upon its explanations, and it does that mostly by seeking out and examining new evidence.

    Now you say that “Chemtrails are just one small aspect of an agenda that goes far beyond your conceptual imaginations”. However, I, like most people have a fairly vivid imagination, quite possible of imagining things like living the the Matrix, or our rulers being shape-shifting reptiles, or all manner of unusual theories. Generally these are given little credence, not because they are unimaginable, or because they induce cognitive dissonance, but simply because there is no evidence at all that they are going on.

    So please, stop with the “open your minds”, and simply show us some evidence.

  53. SpiritualInstinctGuy2012 says:

    What kind of evidence is good enough for u? How does one prove the existence of something one cannot see? The “reptilians” theory that’s out there states that these entities exist in a higher frequency range outside of visible light. Does such non visible light spectrums exist? Yes. However without some kind of filter, we can’t see what exists in those frequency ranges.
    Have u seen the NASA STS-75 video?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As-wYmFYb3I

    This camera used an ultraviolet filter. I’m sure u will think that these are probably contrail particles too right? Ice crystals that pulsate and are up to 2 miles across in length, yes? In my opinion, reptilian entities could exist in different light spectrums outside of our own biological decoding of visible light. The only evidence to support those claims date back 1000s of years with statues, scrolls, ancient texts & drawings, artifacts, etc…. so yeah, no evidence there right? People worshipped reptiles, that is fact, but why? That is theory, at least to the general public. There’s no modern day evidence of them existing so we all write that off as “doesn’t exist.” Maybe they do, maybe they don’t, all I do know is that there’s someone in charge of the governments & the reptilian theory isn’t that far fetched to be honest… if u incorporate that “evolving” science & new discoveries that have been occuring the past decade.
    Let’s just brush the NASA video off as kooky NASA conspiracy theories and move on to solid, mainstream science reality…

    Science is by its very nature and evolving discipline, constantly seeking to improve upon its explanations, and it does that mostly by seeking out and examining new evidence.

    U really believe mainstream science is evolving constantly? When they discovered that an atom is nothing but empty space, science scratched it’s head about what makes matter solid and had to go to theory. Of course when “consciousness” is mentioned, an immediate sensation of laughter emits from the mainstream science journals. What is consciousness? U can’t see it, measure it, touch it, so it must not exist, correct? Science can’t explain why an atom is empty, but all of u can 100% confirm everything u know is true fact and not disinfo?

    Here’s some people that don’t get TV time & mainstream publishing…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kiqoA6_MlU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHXv-NuSnP0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECkG_JdodMA

    The list goes on, but it’s Youtube, there’s no commercial advertising or big corp. funding, so it must be nonsense.

    Now I’m going to post anymore chemtrail links because until a mainstream source of test data comes forward on TV, u will only discredit the sources of information because the data can’t be disputed in most cases. That’s what I see a lot of here, attacking the source and ignoring the data.

    I haven’t just spent a couple hours on the chemtrail research, I have spent as much time as u folks have researching it. The difference between our research… is that u are magnetically drawn towards the arguments debunking their existence, judging with a bias motive towards that reality. I observe the information from a neutral perspective. I know that we are only told what they want us to believe, can we all agree on that at least?

  54. SpiritualInstinctGuy2012 says:

    I meant to say I’m “not” going to post chemtrail links. There’s so much out there online about that research, I think people can find it for themselves. It isn’t hard to input “chemtrail test data” & the like into a search engine. If people want to know what’s raining down on them, they will put in the effort to find the answers their seeking.

  55. If I put “chemtrail test data” into Google I get the Arizona Skywatch test results for Phoenix, which I’ve already explained in some depth, addressing the data directly, and ignoring the source.

    http://contrailscience.com/chemtrail-non-science/

    I suspect you refuse to present evidence because you know full well it cannot stand up to even the most basic scientific scrutiny.

    All the tests that have been done show normal levels of barium etc, and they don’t even test contails, they just test rain water, or ground water.

    There’s no evidence. I can quite easily imagine a clandestine program of government spraying, but there is absolutely zero evidence that it is happening.

    What evidence have you personally observed?

  56. Shilltastic says:

    I’m beginning to think that a large group of people on this planet has NO CLUE what the word “evidence” means. There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support the “chemtrail” myth. Just assumption and speculation.

  57. JazzRoc says:

    SpiritualInstinctGuy2012:

    When they discovered that an atom is nothing but empty space, science scratched its head about what makes matter solid and had to go to theory.

    “Nothing but empty space”? Whatever gave you THAT idea?

    I’ll tell you what. It came from the same place your other ideas come from.

    Some place other than a science class, a science library, or a friend or acquaintance you might have who might have been able to set you gently straight.

    Wherever it is, don’t go there!

    Try these other places instead, there’s a good “truth-searcher”!

  58. James says:

    SpiritualInstinctGuy2012:

    In my opinion, reptilian entities could exist in different light spectrums outside of our own biological decoding of visible light. The only evidence to support those claims date back 1000s of years with statues, scrolls, ancient texts & drawings, artifacts, etc…. so yeah, no evidence there right?

    Err, you’re right … there is no evidence there. There are plenty of religious beliefs over the ages that don’t really have much credence — just because a bunch of people believe something doesn’t make it true (let alone possible), and just because you have an opinion on something, and can imagine it to be so, doesn’t make it a reality.

  59. j says:

    Wow, I can’t believe you kept this up for nearly 2 years! The problem is, there are a lot of close minded people in this world who will believe anything.

    Anyone who actually knows about aviation knows about something called “winds aloft.” The problem is, I’m sure that winds aloft are already in league with the men in black. Still, to understand why some contrails look different than others, all you need to do is look at your own car’s exhaust. When it’s hot and dry outside, the exhaust is invisible. When it’s cold outside, you get visible water vapor coming out. Then again, I’m sure that my car is also in league with the “men in black” as well.

    In any case, if you look around the web, you’ll realize that the CT apologist’s solution is pointing a bunch of copper tubes at the sky and thinking happy thoughts. If that’s not enough, the cirrus clouds, which are actually living beings (who knew?) will devour the chem trails for us.

    Now if you excuse me, I have to go be brainwashed by the government media complex now.

  60. Shilltastic says:

    Even if some of you people ( I’m talking to the chemtards here) are able to confirm, with actual evidence, that at some point in time and at some location, “the military” has “sprayed” something in order to change weather characteristics (or whatever it is you “think” they do) that DOESN’T mean that the trails you see over YOUR house have ANYTHING to do with such a program! It’s a ridiculous assumption. I can’t understand why that one point is so difficult for so many to grasp. It comes down to one thing…paranoid assumption. That is just sad.

  61. Anonymous says:

    I’ve read through quite a bit of posts here, and I saw the one thing that really gets to me: there are a ton of sites supporting these conspiracy theories, and nobody questions why they exist, and yet when a conspiracy theorist finds a site trying to debunk a theory there almost always seem to be accusations of the site’s owners getting paid or working for the government or something.

    Is it really that hard to believe that someone could be interested in why the science behind why some of these theories is flawed? I think that sites like this should be good for the conspiracy community: it would be better to eliminate the less likely theories and work on the ones with more evidence that might be able to get more support from the general public.

  62. JazzRoc says:

    Anonymous:

    it would be better to eliminate the less likely theories and work on the ones with more evidence that might be able to get more support from the general public.

    INDEED SO!

  63. Stars15k says:

    Anon, I’m asked a lot at YouTube why I post debunks or even care what someone else believes. I’ve used as an example that if you overheard a visitor to your city talking about driving north to an address that you knew to be south, wouldn’t you step in with the right information? I would.

    Zoom……right over this person’s head, so fast you could see their hair part. Logic and simple reasoning are not “chemtrail” believer’s strong points.

  64. Anonymous says:

    Zoom……right over this person’s head, so fast you could see their hair part. Logic and simple reasoning are not “chemtrail” believer’s strong points.

    Indeed: the science tends to be ignored. What’s worse is that while the logic zooms over their heads, the argument doesn’t; instead, they tend to suspect that you are part of an “agenda”:

    I am curious to know who it is you work for, and why you have such a extensive site dedicated solely on dubunking the chemtrail “myth”. People aren’t as stupid as you claim them to be. You are obviously a part of some sort of agenda. Why do you care so much?

    Why would someone have an extensive site dedicated to debunking chemtrails? Well, why would anyone have an extensive site promoting the idea of chemtrails? Also, that’s putting words in another person’s mouth (nobody claimed in this example that people are stupid).

    And then there is this:

    If u rely on current/non-evolving old sciences to lead u to any “truth”, good luck with that quest.

    That’s what I see a lot of here, attacking the source and ignoring the data.

    I haven’t just spent a couple hours on the chemtrail research, I have spent as much time as u folks have researching it. The difference between our research… is that u are magnetically drawn towards the arguments debunking their existence, judging with a bias motive towards that reality. I observe the information from a neutral perspective.

    Since we are trying to debunk this myth, we must have a bias. Well, the reverse is, of course, true: those who believe in the theory have a bias toward proving the theory.

    What’s sad is that most of the “information” supporting chemtrails on YouTube consists of nothing more than videos featuring pictures of aircraft like these or pictures of contrails with soundbytes in the background.

    I’d like to meet the author of this website IN PERSON and photograph the author. This website is a joke, wonder how much you get paid to shit on people? Someone needs to dig around and find out who this author is, where he works, where he eats, where he sleeps, and who he is in contact with. No more time for games. We need to follow this mother fucker and see who he really is. This should be done with anybody trying to debunk something you can see with your own eyes, and putting such a massive effort into it.

    These people are not immune to prying eyes. Find this fool and follow his ass.

    Ah, the sweet irony.

    1. Take a completely unscholarly approach to the discussion at hand
    2. Question the motives of anyone who questions your logic
    3. ????
    4. TRUTH!

    Sorry, couldn’t resist.

  65. why says:

    this is a disinformation site, i used to see chemtrails nearly every day, and now about twice a week . then what do you know the sky is a hazy white. i have a fan on my window which intakes and out takes air . i had it on intake for a week and it was cothered with this fibres WHAT THE HELL IS THAT THEN ? …

  66. Probably something from a nearby tree.

  67. Pablo says:

    You have done an excellent job and disproving the claims made by uninformed people regarding the photos you have shown. There are some crazy claims and theories out there. However, that does not prove that chemtrails do not exist and there is not currently an operation ongoing. Due to the highly classified nature of this black op program, no pictures would exist for fear of death or punishment by those who would leak them out.

    Second, all one has to do to understand the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail is take a day out of your life to watch the skies about you. I live 30 miles from a major airport and commercial air traffic flies over my house daily. Occasionally these planes have contrails depending on the temperature and their altitude. But contrails evaporate very quickly and they are short. They don’t linger for miles then spread out to form hazy clouds. They don’t turn on and off seemingly at the flick of a switch. There are hundreds of videos and photographs, documenting this. I have many of my own.

    Commercial air traffic in my area also doesn’t fly in strategic tic tac toe patterns forming grids. The only logical conclusion would be that non-commercial planes are spraying something for an unknown reason. It is safe to assume those planes must be military/gov’t. In my mind the only rational explanation for going through such a huge expensive operation would be due to some external threat.

    Considering it happens on almost a daily basis, and it is well documented that we have serious ozone depletion, then I conclude that they are spraying to protect heavily populated areas from dangerous radiation exposure which must be serious if other countries are doing it as well. That would also explain why they don’t want to tell anyone and create a panic.

  68. Those are just different types on contrail. Sometimes contrails are short, somethings they are long, sometimes persistent, sometimes patchy. Sure you can tell the difference, but just between type of contrails.

    The planes flying over your house to an airport 30 miles away will NOT leave any contrails, they are too low. You are near Sacramento? You see the north-south traffic mostly, maybe some flights to SF might leave trails, then there’s flights to Hawaii and maybe Japan, etc. Not local traffic at all.

  69. shilltastic says:

    “strategic tic tac toe patterns forming grids”

    One of the EASIEST things to explain, but not ONE them believes it when it IS explained to them.

    It’s just so sad!

  70. Tom says:

    Yes, it is sad that people would rather believe their government is poisoning them than think of the obvious stuff. For instance, frequent flyers will probably know that the entire planet’s airspace has designated airways which are just like streets down here on the ground. Nobody wonders about intersections when driving around town, so why are these people becoming so irritated when they’re told that intersections exist in the skies as well?

    Quoting Ezra:

    Why does the air get really hazy after I see many chemtrails being done in the sky?

    [sarcasm]Hmmm, good question. [/sarcasm] Why does the air in my garage get really hazy after I leave on the engine running for too long? Seriously guys, this is common sense. Grow up and use your brain, that’s all it takes.

    So, thank you for this great article. Maybe it’ll knock some sense into people and they’ll finally realize that not everybody is out to get them.

    And no, I am not from the U.S. government, I live in Austria.

  71. MyMatesBrainwashed says:

    Commercial air traffic in my area also doesn’t fly in strategic tic tac toe patterns forming grids.

    So please tell me, in your days out of your life when you watch the sky, how many planes have you seen flying a stragetic (did it really need that word. Seems that CTists always seem to like to dress up their statements) tic tac toe pattern?

    I tell you what, take a day out of your life to watch the sky and you’ll see that they don’t. Just take a bit of time out to think how the wind is effecting these trails.

  72. oatesy says:

    people need to wake up and see what’s going on above our heads!!!!

  73. Suntour says:

    oatsey,

    You make a valid point, people don’t normally look up until someone says “hey, what’s that line in the sky?”. That’s when the “chemtrailers” strike…even though there is documented proof of persisting contrails dating back to the 1920’s they try to convince people that these lines in the sky are new and strange.

    Mr. Suntour

  74. Guest says:

    Are these orb like things automated guidance systems of some sort?
    Never have seen these before. Would be interested to know what they are.
    They actually look kinda cool.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYEXhCCS97M&feature=PlayList&p=DE540B974DE3A322&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=6

  75. JazzRoc says:

    Guest,

    Does air move? Are days sometimes windy? Does wind sometimes pick up light things and move them? You know, things like paper, light scraps, polythene bags, feathers, fluff, thistledown, dandelion clocks, flies, dragonflies, butterflies?

    If they fly in front of a camera lens, what happens? Are they recorded?

    If they are recorded, then what might you see?

    If the camera is focussed at the furthest distance, at infinity, what will happen to the image of the flying object?

    Now you have got this far – I think you might have the answer to your question.

  76. unknown says:

    borring

  77. al says:

    @Uncinus:

    What evidence would satisfy you in regards of chemtrails? After I’ve read your posts, I get the feeling that whatever is presented to you, you say “please show me evidence.”
    I could ask you a question: Can you provide me any evidence of any of the actions done by the US Secret Intelligence Services? We all know they exist, they do things, but can you prove me anything they do? You see, it’s very hard to prove some things, even you know very well it exists and has existed for a long time…

    But back to chemtrails: I’m just not sure myself. I really hope they don’t exist, but seeing what governments and their zionist sponsors have done in the past and currently do, I really think they are very capable of doing chemtrails. I mean they poison people with fluoride, they killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Iraq, they detonated the WTC, Vietnam War etc, etc. It shows very clearly, they are absolutely capable of mass murder. We also know that current US and EU governments are being sponsored by the same bloodlines(mainly Rothschilds) who financed Hitler, Stalin in the past und who financed the eugenics movement. People very rightfully just don’t trust our governments and it is only fair(even a duty) as a citizen to be highly critical of anything that they may do.

  78. MyMatesBrainwashed says:

    So basically all we have to do is think of stuff that the government is capable of doing it and then we can say that they are, cos they can.

    OK. I reckon the government is capable of making up some a lie about planes spraying the population with stuff that’s going to kill them and spreading this lie across the internet.

    Prove they aren’t doing this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  79. Melrosey says:

    I have actually spent many days watching the planes spray tic-tak-toe patterns in the sky, I spend a lot of time driving. I’ve watched the same plane go back and forth across the sky for no apparent reason. Then I watch those lines turn solid to wispy, until I can no longer see the blue sky. Strangest are the days when I drive to the cities, about an hour from my house. I see these lines all over the sky, until I get close to the airport; then they disappear. Seems to me like they would increase the closer I got to the airport if they are just contrails from commerical jets

  80. SR1419 says:

    Melrosey….

    Contrails…and cirrus clouds…are clouds of ice…as opposed to water droplets…and thus it needs to be very cold for them to form…

    …as planes get closer to airports for arrival, they begin to decrease their altitude…entering warmer air and conditions less conducive to contrails…

    Research the term; “contrail cirrus” to understand why those solid lines turn into a wispy haze….

    http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/

  81. Artem says:

    are these people out of their minds…….chemtrails would be brown. Contrails are just water vapor, same as running your car on a cold day, the exhaust is white. i am tired of f***ing stupid people. hot engine exhaust + -29C = cold water vapor = CONTRAILS. Google how a cloud is made for more information.

  82. Artem says:

    and another thing, the brown haze you see is call smog. it comes from lower alitute emissions; cars, trucks, factories, etc. Mind you, there are four layers in the atmosphere. Planes fly in the second layer called the stratosphere, and we live in the troposphere.

  83. Ross says:

    Artem said:

    Planes fly in the second layer called the stratosphere, and we live in the troposphere.

    No, planes cruse between about 30000 feet (300 hPa) and 38500 feet (200 hPa). The tropopause is also in this region. So, sometimes they are in the troposphere, and sometimes above the tropopause in the stratosphere.

  84. JazzRoc says:

    Ross:

    “The tropopause is also in this region.”

    The troposphere isn’t very “spherical”.
    It is oblate, with an altitude over the equator of 45,000 feet (9 miles) decreasing to 18,000 feet (3,5 miles) over the poles.
    It’s a rather abstract concept – the representation of a thin and fairly continuous “sheet” or “plane” where the air temperature is at its coldest and lies between temperatures of -40 to -80 degrees.
    The reality is a LOT more complicated than that, with annual and diurnal cycling, and cellular convection. It’s just that too much detail at any one time can obscure, not reveal.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadley_cell
    WIKI also supplies more references..

  85. Ross says:

    All very true. I perhaps should have said, “In the latitudes where contrails are often reported, the tropopause is also in this region.”
    The point was that sometimes jet aircraft are in the troposphere, and sometimes above the tropopause in the stratosphere.

  86. mario says:

    In Italia un esponente della Regione Sardegna che stava studiando il fenomeno e che stava creando consensi popolari, è scomparso in mare nell’agosto 2009.
    Sarà una coincidenza, ma il livello di disinformazione in tutto il mondo è segno che dietro alle chem trail sono nascosti poteri molto forti.
    Preoccupante.

    In Italy an exponent of the Sardinia Region that was studying the phenomenon and that it was creating popular consents, is disappeared in sea in August 2009.
    It will be a coincidence, but the level of disinformation all over the world is sign that behind the chem trail is hidden very strong powers.
    Worrisome.

  87. Shilltastic says:

    The only “disinformation” i read about the subject is coming from the “chemtrail” believers.

    They are ignorant about the science that proves them wrong.

    Fact

  88. Jez says:

    I can’t believe how many people think chemtrails are real!

  89. beverly says:

    ITS NO LIE! there spraying a toxic gas that goes to our atmosphere changing the earth climate AND this is the cause of Globe Warming the powder that there spraying is a part of a green house gas go on Google and type 1975 Patent # 3899144 it shows you the powder the military made to put in the sky

  90. Shilltastic says:

    “powder”…LOL!

    Look, just because someone files for a patent..it doesn’t mean the device was even MADE or put into use. You will have to come up with something better. How about some of this “powder”?! As rain falls, the “powder” should remain, where puddles form, after evaporation. Please have a sample of this “powder” sent to ANY lab and see what they say! then, you will need to “prove” that the “powder” you find has anything to do with airplanes or the government. Where is this powder?! If planes have been “spraying powder” all around the world since these trails were first seen, there should be some evidence…somewhere. Air quality monitors in schools, universities and individual homes ( thousands of them around the world) should have found SOMETHING by now…are these air quality labs “in on it” also?! Wow, this conspiracy sure includes a lot of people!

    Also, I don’t deny that the military has been experimenting within the sky. But, the trails behind jet engines are NOT proof of any such thing. They are a NORMAL occurrence based on fuel combustion coupled with varying atmospheric conditions. Science EASILY proves this regardless of what the chemtards believe.

  91. Ben says:

    This business of trying to discredit “chemtrails” is BS.The chemtrails are real and their existence has been well documented by eyewitness observation,personal experiences due to fallout,and scientific analyses and measurements of fallout materials.The presence of these materials cannot be explained away as normal pollutants,because specific substances are showing up at consistently high levels in many different locations.Now I will admit that I dont necessarily agree with conspiracy theories involving population reduction,etc.(although,given the U.S. government and military`s historical record,i wouldnt discount it entirely either)But there is something covert going on in our atmosphere involving the release of particulate matter of some sort,such as aluminum,barium and other metallic substances,polymers,etc.;perhaps for weather modification or to mitigate global warming.Whatever the reason,it is having a negative effect on the ground.High aluminum and barium levels are being found and many trees are dead or dying.And countless people have described becoming ill following these spray operations.This cant be mere coincidence.

  92. Ben, can you post one lab report that shows high amounts of Barium? Because everything I’ve seen shows normal amounts.

  93. electricsatori says:

    Uncinus,

    At the moment I am writing this I am only on post 161, however, I want to commend you on your analytical and realistic approach at debunking these conspiracy theorists.
    I first came across the chemtrail information on youtube a little while back. Naturally, I was concerned and began investigating this phenomenon. As more and more alarmist types continued to propagate, I really began to look for a realistic counter to these pseudo-scientific analyses.
    I am no scientist, nor am I a person of any repute, however, I like to consider debates from two diametrically opposed viewpoints so as to get a clear perspective.
    Clearly, the one thing which you possess which your opponents do not is…an education. As most educated people understand (and most others do not) quoting references is a prime example of a convincing debate…and pointing out the underlying flaws in your opponent’s logic is the way in which true debate is won.

    You have enlightened one person and while I cannot pay for this – I hope my gratitude is reward enough.

    Sincerely,

    Daniel

  94. Ren says:

    In March 1991, two US research scientists of Chinese descent, David Chang and I-Fu Shih, submitted an application to the United States Patent Office, for a patent with respect to “Stratospheric Welsbach Seeding for Reduction of Global Warming” (the “Welsbach Patent”: 2, and Supplement, google it you can look at it yourself).

    In June 1996 US-Air Force Colonel Tamzy J. House and two of his assistants in the Strategic Committee of the Air Force Chiefs of Staff delivered a lecture entitled—“Weather as a force multiplier: Owning the weather in 2025”. This lecture, which can be found on a US-Air Force website, shows how one is hoping to bring the weather under control worldwide by 2025 at the latest. The aim thereby is to develop the military-technological know-how necessary to bend and shape the earth’s weather in the exact manner desired. This strategic paper speaks specifically of “cloud seeding”, meaning that clouds are to be provided with characteristics that make them effective chemically or climatologically.

    “Dennis Kucinich, Democratic presidential candidate and Congressional Representative for the State of Ohio, tabled two motions (‘Space Preservation Acts’) to Congress, in 2001 and again in 2002. These motions call for a comprehensive ban on space-based weapons systems, and Kucinich specifically listed chemtrails in this category. In the first week of June 2003 he was a panel member at a public hearing on chemtrails in Santa Cruz, California. Responding to a question from the audience, Kucinich, who had obtained access to confidential military documents in order to draw up his motions, uttered three words which should ring true to the public ear at last: “Chemtrails are real!”

    There are some more quotes for you to debunk scientifically.

    My question to Uncinus:

    You say that the levels of Barium salts in the “samples” are normal amounts. Is Barium salt a “normal” ingredient in the upper atmosphere? I wouldnt know myself, but I find it strange that the Welsbach patent specifies this compound, along with other metals.

    Regards

  95. Ren. Patents don’t mean something is being used, or even that it works. There are patents for antigravity interstellar spaceships, and bases on the moon. Does that mean it’s happening? Would not not actually want some actual evidence, or do you assume there are bases on the moon

    Cloud seeding has been going on for over 60 years and has never been a secret. It’s quite common actually. It’s entirely unrelated to contrails.

    Kuchinich, see:

    http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/

    Barium is found in the ground, hence it’s found in windblown dust, hence in the atmosphere. If you sample the atmosphere anywhere you’ll find trace amounts of barium, as well as lots of other things, because you are essentially sampling dust from the ground. This will vary with altitude, and I don’t know of any test that has every been done for barium in the upper atmosphere.

  96. SciGuy2012 says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73s2aWOm6wE

    Anybody can report or say anything they want whether it’s true or not, right? Only official titled important people can verify anything unnatural or malevolent taking place in our skies…. don’t bother responding, I’m not expecting to penetrate most of your ignorant cognitive dissonant opinionated facts that we are all imagining things.

  97. SciGuy2012 says:

    http://www.udonews.com/play.php?vid=1880

    It appears some test results got by you Uncinus.
    The Ph of the soil is being affected by something falling from the skies. Try to grow food crops in a few years in heavily dowsed areas. As it is now, no one around my area can grow anything substantial anymore, indoors or outdoors. Make your jokes and personal attacks on the people like me and millions of others searching for some truth out there about these chemtrails, it isn’t going to matter who was right or wrong soon anyway. Enjoy these ‘good ole days’ while they last.

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