Some people believe that the government is spraying something into the air, and this creates unsual looking contrails. They call these “chemtrails”. Now, there is no real evidence that “chemtrails” are real, but there are several myths on the internet about “chemtrails”. All these myths can very easily be shown to be false, and I’ve gathered the most popular myths here as a little time-saver for the person who has encountered “chemtrails” for the first time.
Myth #1 – Normal contrails don’t last very long, but “chemtrails” last for hours and sometimes spread out.
False – Contrails fade away, or persist, or even spread out to cover the sky, depending on the weather conditions. you can confirm this by looking in an encyclopedia. such as the Encyclopædia Britannica
[Contrails] may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.
For more info on this myth, read “Persisting and Spreading contrails”
Myth #2 – Contrails have been observed to persist and spread when the humidity was too low, so they must be “chemtrails”
False – Nobody has ever measured low humidity within a persisting contrail. The fact is it is very difficult to measure humidity in a specific region at a specific altitude, at a given time, the best you can do is make a rough prediction. Measurements are made by weather balloons at just a few stations that average 235 miles apart, at 12 hour intervals, and then local predictions are extrapolated from this. The weather balloons can drift as much as 100 miles in their ascent, so you never know where the measurements are coming from. Humidity can vary by as much as 80% in a 12 hour period, and vary by similar amount over just a few miles. The fact that the contrail is spreading is actually a far more accurate indicator of high humidity than the available humidity predictions. NASAs own experiments (right) show persisting contrails over a large range of calculated humidities, even down to 10%.
Myth #3 – Long lasting contrails have appeared in “parallel lines”, “grid” and “X” formations, which are not normal, so must be “chemtrails.
False. Well, the last bit is false. Yes, contrails make all kinds of patterns in the sky, simply because there are a lot of planes flying overhead, and they fly in all directions. This is pretty much a function of where you live, and the prevailing winds. For example, if you live the Willamette Valley, Oregon, the overflying planes are nearly all North/South, so you’ll get parallel lines. If you live live in more central place, like North Texas, you’ll get planes flying overhead in every direction, so you will get “X” patterns (and “H” and “grids”). If there’s enough wind, and the trails last long enough, then the grid might spread out to cover the sky.
Myth #4 – A bill to ban chemtrails was introduced into congress by Dennis Kucinich, but quickly had chemtrails edited out.
False – HR 2977 was written by a bunch of UFO enthusiasts intent on exposing a conspiracy to suppress alien technology. Dennis Kucinich did not write the bill, he not know what chemtrails were, and when he found out, he distanced himself from that language. The bill was re-written in order that it might pass. See the full article: Kucinich, Chemtrails and HR 2977.
Myth #5 – Public Law 105-85 gives the military permission to experiment with chemical and biological weapons on humans, without their consent
False – 105-85, Sec. 1078, actually prevents experiments except for peaceful purposes, and those can only be performed if informed consent is obtained from each test subject. It’s basically the same procedure as for human drug trials.
SUMMARY
Those myths are really the basis of the “chemtrail” conspiracy theory. There is more, of course, like the halos and sun-dogs that you sometimes see (normal atmospheric optical effects), the dark lines (shadows of varying types), the stuff on the ground (unconnected). But these things really get to the heart of 99% of the chemtrail argument. After they are dispensed with, the theory holds about as much water as alien mind-control implants.
Let me know if you’ve got something else you’d like investigating, and I might add it here.
Just leave a comment below.
Tairaa your an idiot… get informed. Get Active!
http://www.rense.com/politics6/chemdatapage.html
Ahhh, the irony.
James:
Isn’t it just! 🙂
Uncinus. Excellent website and effort presenting accurate information and dialogue for the conspiracy theorists to consider.
The idea that a contrail is somehow a chemtrail defies all logic and scientific evidence. With zero evidence such a spraying effort exists or physical evidence of damage or death such chemtrails (might) bring if it were really happening, CT’s continue to ignore facts for their fictional beliefs.
The beauty lies in the fact that CT’s will live to a ripe old age believing chemtrails exist because the contrails they’re really seeing have no negative consequences to life on this planet.
Peace, bro.
Love the site and I am amazed at your patience in responding, especially to obvious goading by some people!
I personally don’t believe in Chemtrails, simply because the logical evidence outweighs the conspiracy. However it could exist, just like you said, along with alien coverups and lizard men or whatever.
My big thing is “…and?” So you are right and Chemtrails exist, the governments of several nations have been poisoning us for some reason for decades with airplane delivered toxins..and? What are you going to do about it? What CAN you do about it?
Nothing.
Not a GD thing.
What should we do? Complain? To whom? The internet? Haha, might as well go to Venice Beach with a sandwich board and rant and scream like a vagrant, no one is listening. Should we also raid Area 51 and NORAD while we are being productive? Let’s all write letters to our congress so they can put us on a govt. watchlist, let’s start an online petition that no one will see…better yet let’s write a book, im sure THAT will stop it.
People, you sound like said ranting vagrants when you claim Uncinus is a ‘dis-informer’, like your puny opinion really means anything in the grand scheme. Such hubris to think that your theories are SO important that the govt. NEEDS to have agents out there just to make you look bad. You think the govt. is ACTUALLY afraid of the people? They could give 2 sh*ts about you and what you think they are doing.
Keep up the good work Uncinus, rational minds may yet prevail….
Ivan:
But you ain’t correct in the first place, and all your moaning is giving us all a headache.
Meanwhile the things we want to get done AREN’T being done, because there are large crowds in the corridors of power talking about things which CANNOT be done…
JazzRoc
Haha, dood, did you even read what I wrote? _I’M_ not the one ‘moaning’ about it, I was saying that it’s useless to even try to dispute it. Since even if it IS true, you can’t change it or stop them from doing it.
Sheesh, at least read my whole post before jumping down my throat about it. Correct about…what exactly? I was essentially saying that my (and your) opinion doesn’t matter in the long run.
You guys are one pack of sick puppies. Same old dis-info techniques with no real substance. Meanwhile, I sit here watching the so called “contrails” get thicker and thicker on a hot sunny day. Never to dissipate as they eventually make their way down to the warm air around us still with no sign of evaporating. But how can this be? The contrail experts that make up this website have assured me that a contrail needs much colder and moister conditions to exist. Please provide me your expertise and clear my confusion. I am sure you can come up with an explanation that I will be happy to accept as the only logical answer, as you always do. Why so many contrails that linger and so few that disappear after a short lived appearance? How do so many pockets of warmer, non-saturated air manage to remain in the sky surrounded by the cold supersaturated air without blending together, causing the persistent lingering contrails to become broken into segments across the previous clear blue sky? What is it that prevents the warmer pockets of air from blending, yet allows the persistent lingering contrails to blend together so well as they spread out into a blanket of fog on this warm sunny day? Please mr. contrail expert, explain to me these inconsistencies in a scientific sounding way so that I can accept it as the truth and end my confusion. So I can carry on again believing that what I am actually seeing with my own eyes is not really happening. Reassure me once again that what you tell me is the only thing I must believe because I am being deceived by my own eyes and that my memories of contrails of the past are inaccurate and that I am not remembering my past correctly. I should remember my past as you say it was and not how I think it was because you are much wiser and see things much clearer than me. Why do I deserve to be blessed with your wisdom and guidance that provides me with all of the answers to my questions about contrails. When I was uneducated and confused, I actually believed that contrails used to behave differently in the past and were almost always short lived and dissipated quickly. But you have taught me that my memories of the past are inaccurate and that contrails have always behaved the way they do now. They have always persisted and lingered and spread out into a cloud layer that blankets the entire sky. I have just decided to block that part of my memory out and I’ll bet there is a perfectly logical reason why me and everyone else I know has blocked out the same memories about jet contrail behavior when we were younger. Even as a child when I would take advantage of every opportunity to lay on the grass and observe the jets fly by wondering how long the contrail will be, hoping that it will be a really long one but almost always disappointed to see them disappear so quickly. Why have I blocked out the very memories that I always longed for but never got to see? Please provide me with another one of your trustworthy and reliable explanations to set me on the correct path once again, and explaining to me once again that your explanation is the only one that is correct and that all others are just hoaxes and conspiracy theories drummed up by a bunch of whackos that wear tin foil hats and failed at education. Then I can carry on again telling myself that everything is going to be o.k. Just keep my head down and focused on my cell phone, and as long as I don’t look up it doesn’t exist. Thank you so much for this awesome website. How do you put up with all of those whacko non-conformers? Amazing!
SUMMARY
Those myths are really the basis of the “chemtrail” conspiracy theory. There is more, of course, like the halos and sun-dogs that you sometimes see (normal atmospheric optical effects), the dark lines (shadows of varying types), the stuff on the ground (unconnected). But these things really get to the heart of 99% of the chemtrail argument. After they are dispensed with, the theory holds about as much water as alien mind-control implants.
Yes sir,
That statement certainly summarizes what this here website is all about. Right to the point. Text book dis-info to the core.
It can’t be. So unless you can provide video of photographs of contrails descending undissipated into warm air around you, then we have to assume you are mistaken. Perhaps instead of seeing the contrails descending, you see them moving away and spreading out. Since they move closer to the horizon, then perhaps you take that as meaning they are lower in the sky.
Imagine a plane flying over you. It’s directly overhead, so it’s as far from the horizon as possible, 90 degrees from it. Later, when it’s say 50 miles away, it’s only 25 degrees above the horizon. It perhaps looks like it’s closer to the ground, since it’s closer to the horizon, but it’s still the same altitude. Now consider the same situation with a spreading cloud. Since it’s spreading, it’s hard to see how big it is, and hence how far away it is. So the angle above the horizon become a much bigger visual cue as to its altitude. Unfortunately this angle misrepresents the height, and hence we get the confusion.
But it’s hard to tell without seeing what you see. Please provide some photo’s or video. Or point to some other photos or video on the internet that shows these “descending” contrails, and then we can fairly discuss them.
Rudedog:
SO MANY WORDS, rudedog, yet the above is the basis of your question, and highlights your ignorance. It isn’t as if we haven’t, separately, asked YOU to educate yourself about the atmosphere. And it is plainly obvious you haven’t done so.
The atmosphere is at its coldest at the tropopause (about 26,000 feet). It then GETS WARMER with increasing altitude (the higher altitudes have more sunlight and less reflected Earth’s heat).
This makes it STABLE. It is NOT LIKE the troposphere where we all are – THAT is UNSTABLE.
THIS STRATIFIES, IT IS CALLED THE STRATOSPHERE. “STRATUM” is the Latin for LAYER. Being LAYERED, it doesn’t MIX. DIFFERENT LAYERS HAVE DIFFERENT HUMIDITIES. WHAT’S YOUR QUESTION?
CAPISCHE?
(Is there a smiley for this? – A sort of “god-help-us” smiley?)
Rudedog,
1) “So I can carry on again believing that what I am actually seeing with my own eyes is not really happening. ” Explain how you can see the chemical make up of anything from ground level by sight alone. In order to do such in a science lab would require a spectrometer and very exacting sampling; think of all the money to be saved by just looking at something to see the very molecules of it’s being. Truly, the mind boggles. Unless it’s a plot by makers of mass spectrometers to continue to produce these costly items. Oooo, forgot the paranoia factor there.
2) “I actually believed that contrails used to behave differently in the past and were almost always short lived and dissipated quickly.” Contrails have always behaved the same because they are governed by certain laws of physics, heat, etc. Unless you feel the laws of physics have been repealed, your memory is colored by your current beliefs. It happens quite a lot. Every generation had it harder than the next, the winters were colder, the sky was bluer, the school was longer away, the fish was bigger, ……get it now?
3) “explaining to me once again that your explanation is the only one that is correct and that all others are just hoaxes and conspiracy theories drummed up by a bunch of whackos that wear tin foil hats and failed at education.” Okay you got this part right. The only correct explanation is the explanation that works on all levels, can be quantitatively tested, is repeatable, and verifiable across the board. There would be no differing theories, there would be only facts. Where are the facts presented wrong?
Have you ever been a juror? I have been, and listened to four people, all of them swearing they are being truthful, relate four different ideas of what they saw. Who was right? They all saw what they saw and believed they saw the truth. Eyewitness, personal observation, memory, all are fallible. That’s why we choose to believe the science. We WANT answers, and science provides them. So, asking again, where are the facts presented wrong?
Ive been looking into this for a couple of weeks now. I live in Houston and I attended the Livestock Show and Rodeo when it was in town. My friend and I looked up while we were there and noticed “contrails” sticking in the sky in a grid like formation. The quickest response to this is “weather conditions.” The only problem I have with the “weather conditions theory” is that while some of these “contrails” were staying in the sky and spreading out, other planes’/jets’ contrails were disappearing after only seconds. So in the same sky over the same town at the same altitudes, weather chooses which contrails it would like to affect and keep around, and decides to let other contrails disappear quickly. Explain this.
The plane were at different altitudes. 1000 feet can make all the difference – it’s like the base of cloud layer, except it’s a humid layer.
I would like to see these chemtrail theorist take a trip in a private jet: that they watch fill up
with gas, inspect every space of the wings and engine for “product”,
go to 30,000 feet, observe the wing tip contrails and engine trails,
be dumbfounded, land,
then still claim that chemtrails are real.
Its not an issue of science nor evidence for most of these kind of people it is a psychological problem of trust, fear of the unknown, and some sort of search for purpose in life by taking trivial things and making them grandoise, due to a sense of life being so meaningless on a little rock in a seemingly senseless universe.
The others who subscribe to this are just plain ignorant and extremely credulous.
Also besides the government they mostly don’t trust religion, the guy at the gas station, their neighbor, their family, their cat, themselves.
Its a shame to waste ones life and time for petty nonsensical things rather than finding contentment in life simple joys and pleasures.
I challenge them: Why don’t you search for a higher purpose in life.
Divine Purpose, STFU. Millions of intelligent people have a severe distrust for any form of government. And no, we are not paranoid. You should arm yourselves with facts, foremost the lesson of history. But I’m sure you have that all figured out in your little corner of Utopia. The highest purpose in life is unconditional love and truth. Knowing this, exposing evil bastages that have killed a few hundered million people in the last century alone is a no brainer. Baaa Baaa Baaaa So whose the petty one? ha
As I’m sure your aware, the Bilderbergers, Trilateralists and CFR memebers set policy around the world. They are also firmly entrenched in every department of government, which by the way has tripled in size the last 8 years and due to triple again in the next few years. If your down with that there is not much anyone can do for you, for you will be a slave.
Onto the topic at hand. My research is almost done and yes, there is massive amounts of damning evidence that shows these huge plumes that are persistent WELL BELOW the 26K threshold. As a matter of fact these calculation were between 13-15K. Nuff said Uranus.
Uranus, I thought you were Mr. Scientific? But 3 posts up you just dismiss a poster by stating “the planes were at different altitudes”. NICE SCIENCE THERE. Matter of fact that’s all I’ve seen you do in this thread.
Well here’s some CFR documents that discuss the “possiblity” of using suspended aerosols to refract sunlight. As we know all too well, they are already doing it GLOBALLY. There’s also some real gems in there about global governance that fits in nicely with the Global Banking System and One world government that is hundreds of publications weekly. Have fun stooges.
http://www.cfr.org/project/1364/geoengineering.html
Humidity can vary by a lot in 1000 feet. Hence if two planes fly 1000 feet apart then they can produce different contrails, or one might produce a contrail and another might not. It’s very simple science. Science does not need to be long winded and complicated.
Ahmed Septic:
Suspended aerosols occur when a fire burns. Such suspended aerosols are commonly known as “smoke”.
That has happened ever since (millions of years ago) there first was oxygen in Earth’s atmosphere and something combustible, like dead plant material, on the ground. “Smoke” seeds cloud droplets, and also dims incoming solar radiation. The amount of “smoke” in the air is a subject of interest for atmospheric scientists.
It takes a special sort of “stooge” to turn up millions of years later and interpret the research of atmospheric scientists into the amounts of suspended aerosols (“smoke”) as a clandestine conspiracy to achieve a NWO.
These “stooges” aren’t found in the open in large numbers, for they are afraid of fresh air. They are solitary and pale-skinned, stirring their housedust about and coughing quietly through their bhongs, tapping endlessly on keyboards in front of flickering screens, all because they cannot understand the world they live in, and cannot entertain the “possiblity”(sic) they are hopelessly wrong about everything.
How could that be? After all, they’ve a computer in front of them, connected to the Web…
God be with you, Ahmed.
I do believe in unconditional love but I nor does anybody save mother Theresa– maybe–loves everybody unconditionally. Truth I hope most things are true that I know, except the tragic or detrimental stuff, but its humanly impossible to know everything. I digress now, onto to the topic at hand.
Millions of intelligent scientists, pilots, and open minds do not believe that a natural phenomena of chemistry and physics of the combustion of jet fuel for the formation of water vapor/contrails:
2 C12H26 + 37 O2 —heat—> 24 CO2 + 26 H2O
(plus extra O2 and various amounts of N2, SO2 products)
is a herendously evil plot by governments to do who knows what.
Note the high concentration of water/H2O 🙂 after the combustion. Clouds are water.
Has the government manipulated the natural state of chemistry of the universe?
Maybe every scientist is delusional and chemtrail theorists are the correct ones.
No way. I truly feel some sympathy for how they let this fear shape and paralyze their minds from enjoying life. I guess that is why I’m taking some time to pursuade anyone that will come to the light of truth.
I challenge them once again, and stand by my original post, plus to examine science basics.
I really hope that knowone reads this site and actually believes this non sense. Almost every contrail ive ever seen has disipated quickly. I live in a very rural part of ohio and I can tell you that seeing anywhere from 5 to 10 planes in the sky at any one time. Im sorry but I have never seen that many planes visible at one time. Oh and another thing captain contrail, why is it that when Im watching a plane through my telescope and all the sudden the “Contrails” just stop but the plane continues to fly????????? OH AND BY THE WAY, STOP WITH THE ALTITUDE AND HUMIDITY CRAP AS YOUR ONLY EXCUSE!!!
THERE IS NO WAY THAT 5 TO 10 COMMERCIAL FLIGHTS CARRYING PASSENGERS WOULD BE ALLOWED IN THE SKY AT THE SAME TIME IN THE SAME AREA…OH ANOTHER THING CAPTAIN NO NOTHING….EXPLAIN TO ME WHY IF THERE JUST YOUR AVERAGE PASSENGER JET FLYING OVER HEAD, I CANT HEAR THEM? OH WAIT THATS RIGHT, THERE CHEMTRAIL PLANES AND THE HAVE SILENCERS ON THEM!!!!!!!!!
I have read through most of the discussion and there are a couple of points I don’t think have be raised.
Lets say for example that I work for the CIA or some other US agency that wants to use chemtrails to experiment on the populace, would I want my handiwork to be all over the sky so everyone would see it. If I was in charge of this program, I would target days to release chemicals on overcast low or middle cloud days when no one would suspect what I was doing. Just think what I could accomplish in Seattle…wouldn’t be long before everyone would be sick or dying.
Second point – if there is even a scrap of evidence that chemicals are being released, has anyone sued the government to get a settlement? Can’t sue the government, find out the company supplying the chemicals and sue them. Seems to me there could be class action suit here.
I have been a meteorologist for close to 40 years. I was a weather observer early in my career and spent a lot of time looking at the sky. On some days, low rh I assume, the vapour trail would disappear in seconds. On other days there was a long line behind the jet that would start to fan out. There were definitely some days, high rh I assume, when the sky would be filled by cirrus from passing jets, shredded and blown around by the upper winds. I don’t see any difference in the way contrails behave these days.
Could you then explain what the problem is with this?
Which area? There’s about 30 planes within 50 miles of Akron, OH right now:
http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KCAK
The sky is very busy.
I can never hear planes at contrail producing altitude. Can you?
Blue no more I am getting mixed messages from you. What position and point are advocating? You start off by calling the things on this site as nonsense. You say that you see quick disipating contrails which is antichemtrail then you sarcastically remark about altitude and humidity which mocks the antichemtrail position.
Could you clear it up? I found myself agreeing then disagreeing from both sides.
I believe the idea about toxic chemicals spilling out of jetliners is nonsense? What is your position?
I hear faint and occasionally very clear intake suction and mild jet roar from contrail producing planes all day.
Nothing strange there. What would be the problem? Maybe living near a noisy freeway is a factor.
I’m directly under the NE flightline 50 miles from LAX.
Add in the theory that HAARP can control the weather and these people wouldn’t have to wait for a cloudy day to cover their spraying, they could just conjure up a cloud over the area they wanted to spray.
For how clever these people must be, they don’t half seem to do some dumb things.
Blue-
Why do clouds have gaps in them?? Why isn’t here just one uniform cloud across the entire sky?
Contrails are man-made clouds…clouds have gaps in them…why not contrails?
Have you researched for yourself what the known behaviors of contrails are?? Lots of studies over the last 40 years…and they have clearly shown that not all contrails dissipate quickly.
…a simple google search will provide some insight: contrail cirrus.
well first of all, Im able to see 5 to 10 planes flying all at once within a 5 to 8 mile radius, and some flying very close to each other whether its parallel or when there creating there grid. Sorry that my other 2 messages where very messy and hard to follow. I basically believe that something is going on and it would take a lot to convince me otherwise. Look, the government can do whatever it pleases, whenever it pleases, to whomever they want. They are not afraid to spray during the day, because they have been doing it for so long that people are thinking its something average and normal. Nimbus, If you think its so simple to file a lawsuit against our government, and live a normal life at the same time, then I think you should give it a try some time.
I talked to a women In California a while back, and she said that when she started making calls to the EPA and her local police department asking questions, the police actually removed her from the station saying they had more important things to deal with and the EPA rep. told her “to let it go”. She also visited the HAARP website and 2 days after visiting the website someone was trying to access her computer and give her a virus. Shortly after all this happened, she began noticing unmarked vehicles sitting right outside her house. The only way she got them to go away was by calling her local police when she came home one day to find the vehicle parked in her driveway. The policeman wrote a ticket to the driver and he never returned. Trust me, if anyone tries to take up a lawsuit against our government about a secret operation their running, they would have something to say about it, and I guarantee that it wouldn’t be legal. Everyone has to realize that our government doesnt play nice.
I dont understand why people are getting sick and are going into the doctor saying they have the flu, and when the doctor does a test on them, they dont test to have the flu virus. They, as in the doctors, claim its a “unknown pathogen”.
” In this study, the longest-persisting contrail observed from a known identified aircraft was approximately 25 minutes. This occurred on one occasion, out of 53 documented observations. The next longest in persistence were trails lasting approximately 2 minutes. This occurred on about 5 occasions. Most contrails observed were in the 5-20 second range. Unidentified flights were observed to produce trails with persistence from 20 seconds to several hours”. This is from an independent researcher who gathered this information from in and around houston airport in Texas.
I definently believe that their spraying in an attempt to modify the weather because australia is in the midst of a 7 year drought and their an Island by themselves out in the ocean.
Im sorry but I believe nothing that says contrails are responsible for making a beautiful blue sky into an overcast day. Some may think I’m crazy, but I chose to add a little common sense to my beliefs. If anyone can explain to me why when I spend the day outside on a cloudy day and the next day I’m sick and have a horrible sinus infection, please, it might clear up some things. I should also mention that I have no allergies. This has happened to me 4 times this year alone….pretty sad I say. Oh and Nimbus, the fact that there is no class action lawsuits against our government pertaining to chemtrails speaks for its self. peace out…
I’m unsure why you find this suspicious. It’s perfectly normal for planes to be close to each other. They simply have to be separated by 1000 vertical feet, or three horizontal miles. Thus in an 8 mile radius circle, in the range 28,000 to 35,000 feet, it’s legally possible to have approximately 130 planes in that airspace. Obviously rather unlikely, but having 10 is certainly not impossible.
Perhaps you could send a photo of what it is you find to be suspicious.
You mean this:
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml
That study was done in 2000. There are a number of problems in conclusing anything from it. Firstly it’s a tiny data set where hardly any planes were identified (compared to the actual traffic over the region). Then the persistent contrails are grouped on particular days, which suggests it’s a variation in the weather.
But the biggest problem is that it was done nine years ago, and has not been repeated, even though it’s trivially simple to do. The reason why it has not been repeated is that when people try, they find that they CAN identify the planes leaving persistent contrails, and they are generally commercial jets.
Why?
Seriously, why don’t you believe it? All the science books say that’s what happens. The encyclopedia says that’s what happens. Articles dating back to the 1950s say that’s what happens. See:
https://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/
(and if you are interested, read some of the other articles listed on the left, start at the bottom).
So why do you disagree? What exactly are you basing this on. You want to throw out all of science and all of history. So you must have some pretty good reasons. What are they?
More admissions: These are government websites and current administration statements. Hmmm……man made aerosols to control global warming….erm…. I mean “climate change”. Your shit is wearing thin boys.
http://www.infowars.com/the-government-is-already-geo-engineering-the-environment/#
These were taken from my phone camera 2 days ago. Crystal Clear deep blue sky completely wrecked in a matter of hours on this day. Photos taken around 11am and 5pm. The pics clearly show plumes coming from these planes that expand start to weep and sink to the ground. These planes were flying in groups of 3. Extremely low, and slow.
Everything you see in these pics is man made as there was no natural cloud formations. Must be the admitted terra forming. The only conspiracy here is, since these programs are admitted why are people who want to know what compounds are being sprayed on us dismissed as being crazy? It’s obvious the government and companies that are doing this have something to hide, hence their coming out into the public view with the notion that terra forming will save us from our SUV’s. Complete rubbish, prepare for the Global Carbon Taxes paid to the private bankers soon.
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2996/1017081208.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9308/1017081100.jpg
http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0919081319.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2600/0114091636.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1914/0115091253.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6576/0114091642.jpg
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2623/0903081635.jpg
Armed Sceptic, I think you are combining two things: Measuring aerosols, and speculative cures for global warming. The first is undeniably happening, as well it should.
The second is also happening, in that there is SPECULATION. There’s zero evidence that anyone is actually DOING any of this, and even less evidence that contrails are involved (less evidence, in that the evidence strong suggests that the contrails are the same now as they have always been, just more of them).
Actually your denial is a weakness. There is an overwhelming amount of proof and admissions. The latest one by the *bama administration. The documentation also shows that these campaigns have been online since 1996.
Why not post my photos? 2 of them clearly show these chemtrails sifting to the ground after 6 HOURS of being suspended. We’ve already pulled the atmospheric data from 3 days ago, along with the altitude and speed measurements of the planes. This info has been sent to our colleagues for analysis. I recommend you look more in depth into the documented admissions of proof the white house just submitted to the public a few days ago, along with the mountain of other documents showing barium salts, aluminum oxide and sulfur being sprayed wontonly about the planet.
So I repeat, your denial is a weakness. I will repost the pics. These are the same formations that your sidekick told me were all in my head and obviously mares tales.
Here is the original post in it’s entirety.
These were taken from my phone camera 2 days ago. Crystal Clear deep blue sky completely wrecked in a matter of hours on this day. Photos taken around 11am and 5pm. The pics clearly show plumes coming from these planes that expand start to weep and sink to the ground. These planes were flying in groups of 3. Extremely low, and slow.
Everything you see in these pics is man made as there was no natural cloud formations. Must be the admitted terra forming. The only conspiracy here is, since these programs are admitted why are people who want to know what compounds are being sprayed on us dismissed as being crazy? It’s obvious the government and companies that are doing this have something to hide, hence their coming out into the public view with the notion that terra forming will save us from our SUV’s. Complete rubbish, prepare for the Global Carbon Taxes paid to the private bankers soon.
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2996/1017081208.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9308/1017081100.jpg
http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0919081319.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2600/0114091636.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1914/0115091253.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6576/0114091642.jpg
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2623/0903081635.jpg
Don’t worry, this information is documented in triplicate with scientific method applied.
Armed Sceptic, none of your photos show anything “sifting to the ground”. They actually seem to show normal spreading contrails, at regular contrail altitude.
I appreciate you feel differently, but ask any atmospheric scientist, and they will tell you the same thing. So you really need to ask yourself why you believe what you do?
Actual I do not need to question a thing about what I believe. I repeat, you are a fraud. I have proof that these were created between 7-13K ft. By your own admission “normal” contrails appear above 26K. So you are seriously stupid. Besides the government, universities and congressional testimony admit these programs exist. For any person who stumbles on this site, let it be known, Uncinus and his side kick are CoIntelPro.
http://www.infowars.com/concerns-about-chemtrails-given-fresh-impetus/
Then show the proof.
Not to worry, this info will be released shortly. Your MO will simply be to say the instrument wasn’t calibrated, or better yet, I need to rethink what my eyes perceived as the “readings”.
http://www.infowars.com/obama-advisor-back-pedals-on-geo-engineering-announcement/
I like you armed sceptic…..way to put it to uncinus. I have thought this site was connected to the government for some time now. I find it pretty funny that uncinus actually tries to convince people their stupid when really it makes him look stupid. I mean come on, knowone can tell me that contrails are capable of turning a blue sky into an overcast day! Those pics that Armed Sceptic produced are similar to the ones I have taken. Besides this thing about weather mod. is bull shi* and global warming is a fraud. The government is trying to scare us or something.
uncinus…if these are harmless contrails and not chemtrails like YOU claim, then why is there evidence that these planes actually make loops and turn around AND complete the “x” formation or the “grid” formation? I have seen with my own eyes these jets turn the spraying on and off many times. Those planes making these grid and x formations have to be chemtrail planes because any normal commercial jets always fly’s a straight flight path because making loops and such would waste too much fuel and throw them off schedule…..besides I have flown many times and I cant ever remember flying in circles! Its all common sense uncinus and apparently you dont have any.
Do you think that commercial passenger jets are the only planes in the sky? No, of course not. Sometime planes do fly in loops for a variety of reasons. They don’t do it very often, but I’ve seen it myself, and I’ve seen the contrails that result.
You know there are VERY FEW photos of u-turn contrails. That’s because most planes DO fly in straight lines. Sometimes they don’t.
As for “Grids” and “Xs”, can you explain how jets could POSSIBLY operate WITHOUT making grids and Xs? I mean, look at ONE DAY of flights in the US, and tell me how there will be no grids, or Xs:
What baffles me…is that given all of the scientific research, photographic evidence, and eyewitness accounts dating back 40+ years how someone can say this:
It is like they are just blind to the evidence…refuse to acknowledge the data presented and prefer to remain ignorant of the reality…as if it will break their belief system or something…
At the very least, its shows a lack of rational review of available data….
Contrails that persist and spread out…turning blue sky into an overcast day are a scientific fact.
How can one legitimately argue that there is no evidence for that and be taken seriously??
Blue- when you see research like this…what do you think??
http://tinyurl.com/ctahvp
This paper was written in 1970- in which the author explicitly states:
He is describing exactly what you describe-
or this paper- complete with pictures of exactly what you describe:
https://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/
Scroll down to the photos from the paper from 1969 which states:
or this more recent treatment with deal with the very issue you are describing:
http://tinyurl.com/4qyaww
Do you even read this??
…if you do…then how can you say it is not possible?
the fact is no matter what subject is discussed, their is always two sides to everything. You choose to believe and stand behind the fact that chemtrails are actually contrails and I choose to believe that everything you believe is bull sh**.
I dont give a damn what some scientist in the 1970s says mainly because his korny quote of him seeing a single contrail turning the whole sky overcast is crap. sounds to me like hes a real winner.
Eyewitness acounts are extremely unreliable because everyone has their own opinion of how they percieved the situation, plus we dont know if these eyewitnesses are uninformed or informed, sane or insane. Eyewitness accounts mean absolutely nothing to me.
by scientific research, you mean research done by a government scientist or a scientist paid by the government? Its very easy research…….collect samples and test its components. the nice thing about samples is that they dont lie.
Photographic evidence is bs to because even I can take a picture and believe what I want about what the picture is showing….weak supporting evidence. I believe what i believe because I have read articles of both sides, and felt that the chemtrails made more sense to me.
Oh, and I did read the article you put in your post and I dont care to put any percentage of belief in that only because its written via american meteorological society which could easily be government controlled. Besides the government controls what they want the american people to know via every media source….tv news especially. you have done a poor job convincing me or whatever your trying to do.
So, given that you think that eyewitness accounts are “extremely unreliable” (and I agree with you there), what exactly is the evidence that supports the “chemtrail” theory? Nobody has EVER tested an actual contrail, have they? (Well, except for the scientists who do it all the time, and find ice crystals)
…and what are we to make of your comments that are quite similar??
Moreover, as an atmospheric scientist he was informed…
But oh yes…all scientists are paid shills….that is believable…
The paper that I referenced was published in the AMS- but it was written by 9 scientists from France, Germany and Sweden…guess they are all being paid by the US government.
Uncinus is right- there have been A LOT of samples of contrails taken and tested…but unfortunately only by scientists…no doubt you HAVE researched all of their findings and dismissed them as they are, in fact, scientists and thus cannot be trusted…
Who do you prefer take the samples and do the tests?
So…you do not believe in photographic evidence? …so, you dismiss any photo that is claiming to be a “chemtrail”?? That seems to be the most common form of “evidence”.
You do not believe in eyewitness accounts…does that apply to “chemtrail” accounts as well?
What exactly DO you use as evidence for your beliefs??
So…a global, clandestine, spraying campaign of unknown origin and intent, involving 1000s of planes and 1000s of people makes more sense to you than the simple science of the atmosphere involving the physics of ice, soot and wind…science that has been sampled, tested and retested by 100s of scientists over 40+ years and their findings modeled mathematically and presented for anyone to critique…??
interesting.
Essentially any person who comes out in favor of Contrails rather than Chemtrails is quickly dismissed as a shill or linked to the government somehow. I think it was a chemtrail message board where a Contrail supporter linked the picture taken by Ansel Adams in the ’50’s. A Chemtrail supporter linked Adams to Polaroid who was then linked to someone else who was in the Government etc etc. They reasoned that this caused Ansel Adams documentation of contrails to be in question. Talk about a stretch of the imagination.
The onus is on Chemtrailers to do the collection, testing and presentation of evidence in order to tell the difference between Contrails and Chemtrails. They have done no such thing, the only evidence I’ve seen so far is “belief”.
I don’t recall seeing any links to studies done by pro-chemtrail scientists sampling, testing & reporting their findings of supposed chemtrails. Even so, the collection and testing of that sample must be done in an unbiased fashion. Where are these tests and reports?
We await the evidence with bated breath.
The real simple reason why there will not be a test anytime soon showing evidence of chemical laden contrails other than the chemicals associated with the combustion of fuel–
is because no real scientist especially anyone working with planes and the study of the atmosphere would never even conceive that the Contrails they make with the very plane they fly, load, and maintain– are toxic weather modifying trails.
The absurdity of the rationale of the greater majority of chemtheorist is perplexing. Its like watching a dog chase its own tail when you tell it thats theirs not some stalking boogey man. They could probably do very good at arguing down is up, 2+2=7 and alot more.
“I have seen with my own eyes these jets turn the spraying on and off many times.” blue no more, 4/11/2009 7:05p
“Eyewitness acounts are extremely unreliable because everyone has their own opinion of how they percieved the situation, plus we dont know if these eyewitnesses are uninformed or informed, sane or insane. Eyewitness accounts mean absolutely nothing to me. ” blue no more, 4/14/2009 5:02p
Hmmm, now what am I supposed to think? So many things said, so little thought expended.
I agree 100% Divine Purpose I cannot imagine a scientist with even a shred of credibility actually taking the time to conduct such a futile experiment.
That being said, if I were a multi millionaire, I’d try to set something like this up. Grab a bunch of chemtrail believers and haul them up there with myself and the scientists, just so they can’t call BS on it. Maybe even bring the Amazing Randi up there as well because he seems cool lol.
…well…to be clear…there ARE a significant number of scientists who have…and are considering the notion that persistent contrails do modify the weather…the cirrus sheets they produce more than likely effect the temperature…
…and they are taking samples of contrails…but none have found anything that would not be expected in aircraft exhaust.
However, I believe a review of the literature shows results inconclusive at this point…as there is some blocking of sun and yet some trapping of heat…and thus the net effect is still uncertain.
I think that there are certain atmospehric conditions that can produce the persistent contrail, but I find it hard to believe that the specific conditions that are required can happen a few times a week, all across the country, in spring, summer, fall, and winter. Chemtrails happen all year and all over the globe.
Maybe something has changed in the atmosphere that allows for persitent contrails on a very regular basis?
Maybe in Chicago they do, but here in LA, contrails are very rare in the summer for the same reason that it never rains in the summer – there’s not enough moisture in the air. I’m sure it rains all the time in Chicago, and so you also get contrails year-round.
Have a look here:
http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/contrail_forecast/contrail_prediction.html
This predicts when contrails will form based on the weather. It shows LA with some contrails, and indeed there were rather a lot today. Why not check this map daily for a while, and see how the forecast holds up.
It is interesting how in a court of law, eyewitness testimony is very credible evidence, but in these debates it is un trustworthy. We really do have queit a confused society..
Uncinus, how do you explain that you have an answer for everything and links to every possible topic and question?
Also, I encourage everyone to really deep think about the word conspiracy. It is a programmed word, people are programmed to react a certain way when the word is mentioned.
I find it very hard to believe that every topic refered to as a conspiracy theory is just that. There has to be truth to some of them.
If you really want to see further; maybe all of the notions that make up consensus reality are wrong and are put in place to keep people in line..
Not as confused at you might think – eyewitness testimony is NOT considered very credible in a court of law. That’s a common misconception. In fact if you look into it, nearly every single reference says that eyewitness testimony is highly unreliable:
http://www.google.com/search?q=eyewitness+testimony+in+court
Google, by the way, is how I manage to have an answer for everything 🙂
Citizen:
All words are “programmed” words. That’s what makes them WORDS. The meaning of a word changes over time, and is rarely very precise, nor is it under the control of anyone (unless you really DO have evidence of a “Big Brother” out there).
“Evidence” is truth. So find some.
“Consensus reality” is an abstraction. Every individual would hold a different concept of “consensus reality” in his or her mind. People would only be bound to it if they chose to do so – if they ever found out what it actually was…
actually dude, if you read the first article on your link.. It states that eyewitness testimony is what usually determines the verdict of the case. I didn’t mean that it was accurate or tustworthy, what I meant is that it holds high in the US court system. We have a double standard in our society..
How about a few sentences on the stigma of conspiracy theories?
Well, practically that entire article is about how unreliable it is. Of course it’s a problem that the jury places undue weight on it. It’s the exact same problem that chemtrail theorists have. The “I know what I saw”, and “other people saw it, so it must be true”. The same problem of the ignoring of science, and the belief in what people think they saw.
The term “conspiracy theory” has a stigma that people react to emotionally – especially those with a firm belief in various conspiracy theories. I generally don’t use it unless I’m discussing an actual proposed conspiracy. Perhaps you could propose a better term?
New term instead of conspiracy theory = Reality Theory..
Jazzroc; all words have meanings yes. If you think about what I am saying tho, Conspiracy theories in our society are always portrayed in a silly way, something only a fool or a nut would believe. Portrayed this way by movies, media, and television. And what do almost all of the American citizens do everyday, they come home and allow the television to shape their views on what is reality..
I wanted a few sentences on why Non believers react a certain way when the term conspiracy is used. As if you would have to be a fool to beleive something other than what the status quo believes..
Also, I have some thoughts about that movie poster you have posted above. I don’t think it says anything really. I don’t think that one person who comments on your page doubts the existence of contrails, even persistent contrails.
That movie poster has a young pilot on an Airforce base, probably from around world war II (?) Its a public relations poster reaching out to young men to enlist. Obviously there will be contrails on above and airforce base where young pilots are learning how to fly, dogfight, etc, flying back and forth all day over the same general area. So what does that poster proove? That jets leave contrails, or that there are contrails over an airforce base?
What you need is some old school posters from France, America, Germany, etc, of common people (not on a base) pointing up at a Giant X in the sky. Posters and pictures of ordinary people going about their daily routines in the fall, spring, summer, winter all over the world with Giant Thick Lines in the sky..? Think there are pictures like that, because I dont think the young pilot on an Airforce base holds much water in the Chemtrail debate..
Why would there be contrails above an airforce base? Would there be more contails above an airforce base? Why?
Because, in the earlier days of aviation they were running their flight training, mock dog fights, practicing near the base. Wasnt military aviation somewhat new then? Didn’t they have to figure out what they were doing? I am pretty sure I’ve seen photos or read accounts of how the sky was covered with contrails after a battle? So why wouldnt it be covered with contrails after practicng with a “mock” battle?
And that poster is saying. Hey, look how exciting your life can be if you join the Airforce. Alot of exciting things are going on at that base, especially when preparing for a corageous war..
You don’t think the picture or poster I requested would build a better case for your side of the debate?
Does anyone think a court of law would take account of an eye witness who was 5 miles away from the event?
all i know is what my eyes see and the sky is blue ,then planes fly over leaving trails be it con or chem ,which spread out forming a weird layer and this white sky. its near the end of april and no rain in england [ not right}so it seems that the powers that be are shading us from the sun .simple as that ,most people today dont even care .what can we do ? can anybody answer that ? instead of arguing we need to do something soon!
nojusto, what you need to do is look at the science and the evidence. Did you know that contrails have ALWAYS spread out to cover the sky, given the right weather conditions.
What you are seeing is simply fluctuations in the weather. It’s not the same from year to year. There is no such thing as “normal” weather. You should look at some of the historical fluctuations.
citizen, that poster shows straight contrails, not dogfight contrails.
But of course they practice. I don’t know where though, but I’d suspect it would be over unpopulated areas, for safety, so not many people would not see it.
Anyway, you asked for a old poster of people pointing up an X in the sky – I can’t imagine why there would be such a poster. But there are a lot of old photos. What exactly are you saying is different now, vs say 20 years ago?
Yes, the poster shows straight contrails. I never said it was an accurate account of a dog fight. It is a recruitment poster, I don’t think they would put scary images on the poster to attract recruits. I do think that contrails were probably new back then, and exciting, and attention grabbing..
Usually bases are away from populated areas. So seeing contrails while standing outside the hanger on a base makes sense to me..
What is different is the frequency of these Persistent Contrails..
Well, there are a lot more planes now.
It’s hard to say how much something is increasing in frequency if you’ve never noticed it before. Because when you start looking for something, then it seems like there is more of it.
Try looking for gum spots on the sidewalk. You’ll see a lot of them. Are there a lot more now than ten years ago? Despite these gum spots being in plain sight, you don’t pay attention to them, so how can you tell?
I agree, once you know what to look for you start noticing it more often. However, a piece of gum on the sidewalk is far different from a 30 mile long thick white Line in the sky, those lines often stretch the horizon..
I agree with what someone else posted earlier; Chemtrail or Contrail, either way it is disturbing the natural environment and it can’t be good for us or Earth…
|Citizen:
As a proportion of Man-made Global Warming, aircraft contrails have been calculated to be 3.5%. That’s one-thirtieth of the effect of the whole of Man’s industries and his efforts to keep himself warm or cool. And that is mainly attributable to the invisible carbon dioxide in the trail.
The visible part, water, is a tiny fraction of the invisible water over your head as water vapor in the atmosphere. It soon returns back to vapor as it humidifies the drier layers beneath as it falls.
The heat loss caused by the illuminated contrail reflecting sunlight back into space during the daytime, is mostly balanced by the reflection back to land of surface heat by the contrail during the nighttime.
Water circulates irresistibly throughout our environment, and without doubt some of the fresh water you have been drinking is contrail water. (And also pee, and Caesar’s dying breath, etc., etc.!)
Thats kind of wierd that you would try and defend pollution..
I read that airplanes are one of the biggest contributors to air pollution, and when you look up on those days with all the chemtrails, and streaks in the sky, and the blanket of white haze that they produce, the only thought that comes to mind is how disturbing..
Who’s defending pollution? Of course airplanes contribute to pollution, and of course this is of some concern. It’s very similar to pollution from other forms of transportation such as cars.
But it’s a mistake to confuse air pollution from particulates and gases, with the visual pollution of contrails. Contrails are made of water. It’s a different kind of “pollution”. Sure, it’s something to be concerned about – but you have to keep things in proportion. How much pollution (chemical, particulate, or visual) comes from planes, compared to, say, factories, or volcanoes?
there has to be exhaust trapped in an Airplane Contrail.. So we have airplane exhaust hanging in Lines over our heads..
No matter how we look at it, it is a bad thing..
And it is very odd that you two would sit here for years (or however long this site has been up) trying to defend something that isn’t good for anyone..
I’m not defending anything. I’m explaining what it is.
Instead of trying to disprove people and their just outraged reactions over chemtrails. You should maybe use your time and dedication to getting the word out and making this an open public discourse so we can stop all the air pollution via jet contrails..
The term chemtrail seems quite logical, if there is exhaust in the contrail, then there are chemicals, hence the term Chemtrail..
It can’t be good for anyone or the earth. It is shameful to spend so much time trying to make people think this is or should be a normaility in our society..
Car exhaust is “normal”. What’s the difference? Why are you not up in arms about car exhaust? Why not rename it car chemxaust?
The term “chemtrails” is used by conspiracy theorists to refer to deliberate high altitude spraying of visible trails, which are NOT contrails. So you are talking about a totally different thing.
I prefer the term Reality theories.. How do you know the people who believe the chemtrail theory aren’t right? It is possible, even you can admit that. It would be such an easy plan, hide chemicals in a place that already exists and is right in front of the public. I read some Bio Enginering paper from the University of Colorado Professors, they discussed the many possible delivery systems and reasons to use these air planes to deliver chemtrails.. So it is has been highly theorized and discussed in the scientific community.
So the theory isnt as incredulous as you try and make it sound. Either way chemtrail or contrail you have created a website to defend something that is wrong and harmful to all life on Earth..
I’m not defending anything. I’m explaining what the trails in the sky are.
The point about “chemtrails” is that there is no evidence that they are not contrails, and lots of evidence that they are contrails.
no one is denying the existence of contrails, but it is very possible and likely that some of them could be chemtrails. This kind of topic should be open public discourse with many different un biased studies done to figure it out. That hasn’t happened and probably won’t, makes one think…
You also have to be aware of how the non believers use your site, as proof and evidence that chemtrails don’t exist. Your site is used to defend something that is bad. Your site leads some people to believe that Long Thick White lines that expand into a fake cloud cover is normal and shouldn’t be worried about or questioned..
Can you explain this? What evidence do you have to support this? It seems very hard to support, seeing as the supposed “chemtrails” look and act exactly like contrails.
Try reading my responses a little more carefully. I read the University of Colorado Professors paper on Geo Enginering, it states very carefully the injection systems that would mount to planes and why they would use such a device. The idea is out there and has been for quiet a few years now. Use the google scholar function and look it up. If the idea is out there and being discussed in the scientific community, then it is a defintie possibility. Anything is possible, and especially if the theories and delivery systems already exist. Chemtrail theory is possible and very likely already occuring, but we will never really know until is is OPEN PUBLIC DISCOURSE…
What proof do you have that Chemtrails don’t exist? You have proof of contrails and why they occur, but what hard evidence do you have that they aren’t chemtrails?
Suppose you saw a person drive past in their car. What hard evidence do you have that they were not actually a reptilian alien in disguise?
The evidence is that they look and behave exactly like a human.
It’s the same thing. These “chemtrails” look and behave exactly like contrails. So why do you think they are part of a secret geo-engineering project? Because scientists have talked about doing such a thing?
People talk about all kinds of things. Is there any evidence, besides their discussions, to suggest they are actually doing it? If so, what is that evidence?
Do you think that the “chemtrails” look or act any different from contrails? If so, how?
I am just saying it is a possibility. Isn’t it? What evidence do you have that they aren’t chemtrails? Like I have said already, we won’t know until this is OPEN PUBLIC DISCOURSE. There needs to be legit studies by unbiased groups, until then we will just keep arguing back and forth.
I am really surprised that you can’t bring yourself to admit that it is entirely possible..
And you already know the reason why people think they are strange..
Well, people say they are strange because they are long lasting, and spread out to cover the sky. The problem with that is that contrails have ALWAYS spread out to cover the sky (given the right weather conditions).
So there’s no reason to think they are strange. Hence there’s no reason to investigate.
And what’s with this “open public discourse”? How is there no discourse? Are we not having open discourse now? Do you have evidence that is being suppressed?
We are discussing this yes. I guess I should say a massive public discourse. I find that a lot of people aren’t really familiar and know about this theory.
Like if they showed debates on televison, or a reality show; Chemtrails vs. Contrails.
A topic that everyone talks about and is familiar enough with to form an opinion. A Public Discourse..
Well, you’ve got to have justification. Why should there be debates on TV about something for which there is no evidence that it is happening?
I mean, we don’t even have debates on TV about the things that ARE happening, so what exactly is there about this theory that means you think it deserves its own television show? What evidence would be debated? What would the “chemtrail” side of the debate say?
I was only kidding about it being on tv, sarcasm.. Point being, not that many people know about the theory. Also, the Discovery Channel has done a program on the subject, but it was obviously one sided, there must be something worth investigating.
You kinda dodge the real meanings and ideas behind what I write. There are people on both sides of the debate and no real answers or hard evidence to proove that either side is right. You aren’t right, you have ideas and evidence about the formation of contrails, but you don’t have proof that they aren’t chemtrails.
People are seeing things that they haven’t seen or noticed before and are asking questions that haven’t and probably won’t be answered.
Why are there people who see chemtrails?
Why would there not be? People misinterpret what they see. Why do people see ghosts? Or angels? Or fairies?
Bottom line – do you have ANY evidence that “chemtrails” are in any way noticeably different to contrails?
If not, then why investigate? WHAT are you investigating – these lines in the sky that look exactly like contrails?
Do you have any evidence that they aren’t chemtrails?
Honestly, you can’t admit that it is possible?
or better yet, the it’s all in your head conspiracy theory:
There is much more proof that chemtrails and a hidden agenda exist than there is that they are normal contrails. But again, the persistent chemtrail is now the norm so go ahead, spin that.
More strawman arguments. The same old, STALE, argument. Give it up already, the government has admitted terra-forming via multiple aerosol campaigns. Event the supposed “cloud seeding” which is irrefutable fact uses barium salts and aluminum particles. These in themselves pose a health risk to free Americans and are illegal to disperse over us. So you see, there is no theory, just fact. As if conspirator haven’t existed throughout human history. Again, you FAIL.
The amount of proven documentation and evidence is overwhelming yet you go on and on about no evidence. When the evidence is posed, you say,”It’s in your head” or “That article is referring to only measuring atmospheric conditions”. Complete denial on your part.
These are extremely low(sub 15,000 ft.) persistent contrails behave VERY DIFFERENT from a normal contrail. Which by your own admission cannot occur. So which theory will you resort to debunk chemtrails this time????
I repeat, you are either an operative or an extremely foolish person.
These crimes are DOCUMENTED with government documents. Humanity worldwide is demanding answers. And despite your efforts, we will get them.
Well, I don’t think you can take commercial cloud seeding and combine it with academic papers on global weather modification and then say the government “has admitted terra-forming via multiple aerosol campaigns.”
But let’s look at actual evidence, you say you have evidence of:
Could you explain:
1) How you measure the altitude
2) How should normal contrails behave (with some documentation to back it up, not simply your childhood recollection)
3) How did these “unusual” contrails behave (with photos or video if possible).
How come the persistent contrail has become the norm? Why are they so frequent?
I think the red flag is how can those very specific weather conditions needed to form the persistent contrail be happening a few times a week, all over the globe, in winter, summer, fall, and spring?
It used to be that the weather conditions had to be just right, and on a rare occasion we would get the persistent contrail. Now the Persistent contrail happens so frequently. What has changed to make this possible?
Also, why can’t you admit that chemtrails are possible? The technology is there, the papers are written, it has been discussed, and considered. This suggests a strong possiblity..
How frequently? Have you tried keeping a daily journal for a year? Or are you just basing it off the past few weeks? Are you sure you’re not simply noticing them more because you are looking for them.
It varies across the country, based on the weather. There a rough correlation to how many cloudy days you get. In Chicago you get a lot more than we get in LA. I’ve hardly seen any contrails at all for the last two weeks here.
Here’s a good way of gauging the frequency through the year. This site shows a satellite photo taken every day around noon over Chicago:
http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=USA3.2009117.terra.1km
By clicking on the “Prev” button you can go back through several years of daily photos of the region. It shows a lot of clouds, and it also shows persistent contrails. It also shows how the two are linked – how you need moisture in the air for the contrails to form.
Everything is “possible”, but you have to weigh the actual evidence in choosing to give credibility to a theory. Sure, the world’s government could seed the atmosphere, and scientists have discussed doing it. But is there any evidence that they are actually doing it? So far all we have are trails that look like contrails. No other actual evidence.
Think of this: we have the technology to build a tunnel under the atlantic. The technology is there, the papers are written, it has been discussed and considered. Does this suggest a strong possibility of a transatlantic tunnel?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_tunnel
Or would you want some actual evidence of such a tunnel, before you started to believe in it?
Citizen-
here is a paper that will give some perspective. In it they study contrails visible via satellite images from 1977-79.
http://tinyurl.com/66qouz
This paragraph addresses the frequency a bit with some estimates: (between 30-50% of the time)
“The difficulty in ascribing some recent cloud-cover increases to contrails results from both the large natural variability of climate and clouds (Cairns 1993; Croke et al. 1999) and the lack of spatially reliable documentation of contrail frequencies, at least until very recently (cf. Minnis et al. 1997). Bryson and Wendland (1975) estimated that contrails may have increased the cirrus cloud cover over North America by 5%–10% since the early 1960s; their calculations assumed that 50% of all flights produce contrails that persist for at least 2 h, however. Although this percent is likely an overestimate, the ability to observe contrails from the surface (e.g., Wendland and Semonin 1982) is influenced heavily by the presence of lower clouds and is limited to the region around the observing site. These limitations are similar to those attending the derivation of cirrus-cloud climate descriptions using surface observations (e.g., Mazin et al. 1993). Even so, surface-based observations of sky cover for U.S. locations characterized by a high frequency of jet traffic, for days on which the upper cloud fraction can be viewed, repeatedly give “contrail-day” frequencies of about 30% per month (Knollenberg 1972; Wendland and Semonin 1982; Detwiler and Pratt 1984; Minnis et al. 1997). Furthermore, aircraft-level observations (e.g., Changnon et al. 1980; Detwiler and Pratt 1984) as well as those observations made using satellites (Engelstad et al. 1992; Travis 1996a), show that contrails are considerably more common and may be more persistent when other (natural) clouds occur rather than when the sky is otherwise clear (see also DeGrand 1991; Minnis et al. 1997; Mannstein et al. 1999). This finding implies that the incidence of contrails suggested by surface-level observations has been underestimated, along with their likely climatic impacts.”
I have been keeping track of the persistent contrails since August. I like to watch them as I am out running.. They are really frequent in Chicago and in Northern Illinois, I commute a lot to the suburbs and if the sky is covered in the city, then it is covered in a suburb that is 30 miles away..
It will take me a bit to look thru the links you posted. Another thought that I think about; how can there be more flights in 2009, and esp since 2001 when the airlines almost went bankrupt? Wouldn’t they have cut down on flights? To me it makes more sense that there were more flights in the 90’s when oil was cheap and the economy was booming..
I know you’ll send me some statistics on how we have more flights now, but how do you know the numbers aren’t fudged, a lie, or fiction? It is possible, if this is all a cover up, it would have to be pretty deep..
The comparison with the transatlantic tunnel I don’t really buy. A tunnel is way different, that would be hard to hide maybe? But hiding an aersol operation or whatever you want to call it, but hiding it in contrails that already exist is a much easier task?
The point with the tunnel analogy is that you need evidence to believe in something. The evidence for the tunnel is the same as the evidence for the “chemtrails”. So why do you believe in chemtrails?
You should look up the figures yourself on air travel. Here’s one graph I found:
and another
From:
http://images.google.com/images?q=growth%20in%20air%20passenger%20miles
It would indeed have to be pretty deep to cover up such a thing. Yes, airlines took a hit after 2001, and took three years to recover. But traffic has continued to increase.
Why do you think otherwise? Not that you shouldn’t, but why?
I think and make connections, that is what I do.
For example, the CTA (Chicago Transit Authority) wasn’t doing well financially, so they cut back on the number of trains and buses that are running. So why wouldn’t Airlines do that? And in the 90’s when fuel was dirt cheap and business was booming, they could run more flights with fewer passengers to make it profitable, where in todays economy you can’t really do that.
You must admit, that even though you have a lot of information on contrail formation, you have zero evidence that there aren’t chemtrails..
With that in mind, I keep coming back to the question; why is the persistent contrail so frequent now. Why is it the new Norm? Because if it were always frequently happening I think this debate would have arisen in the 80 or early 90’s?
Why are people only talking about this for the past 8 years or so?
Interesting.
Uncinus:
Yet my British figures tell a somewhat different story. It seems the recovery was much quicker away from the US.
Perhaps there was little effect between the Middle East and the Pacific Ring?
Oh people have been talking about it for a lot longer. See here:
https://contrailscience.com/contrail-confusion-is-nothing-new/
One example from 1950:
And there’s a old saying: “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”. Just because I can’t “prove” that all trails are not contrails, is not a reason to believe that they are not. You’ve really got to have some evidence of your own.
You can’t prove that some of the soldiers fighting in Iraq are not robots. So does that mean that some are?
There are an infinite number of things you can’t disprove. It’s also VERY easy to create a theory and then just say “well, you can’t prove it isn’t so”. That’s basically a meaningless argument. The onus is on YOU to show some evidence that it might be so. What’s your evidence? Can you make a nice ten point list of your top evidence?